GNU bug report logs - #57907
29.0.50; Using keywords with cl-loop

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From: help-debbugs <at> gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
Cc: tracker <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#57907: closed (29.0.50; Using keywords with cl-loop)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 10:17:02 +0000

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Your message dated Mon, 19 Sep 2022 10:16:47 +0000
with message-id <874jx3fz3k.fsf <at> posteo.net>
and subject line Re: bug#57907: 29.0.50; Using keywords with cl-loop
has caused the debbugs.gnu.org bug report #57907,
regarding 29.0.50; Using keywords with cl-loop
to be marked as done.

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From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 29.0.50; Using keywords with cl-loop
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 12:03:50 +0000

In Common Lisp the following to are equivalent

    (loop :repeat 5 :collect t)

and

    (loop repeat 5 collect t)

as keywords are shared among all packages.  In cl-lib, the former
variant is now allowed, since :repeat is not recognised as a cl-loop
keywords.

It seems to me that it would be nice to support these too, as keywords
have the superficial advantage of being a bit more readable due to their
additional highlighting, and for some people it makes the macro a bit
more comfortable to use since it doesn't have to feel like you are using
a whole new language, but instead these are just keyword arguments to an
unusual function call.

In GNU Emacs 29.0.50 (build 3, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version
 3.24.34, cairo version 1.17.6) of 2022-09-17 built on rhea
Repository revision: bd77f60f949eab3453de76f130aa4a21ef9b1cc6
Repository branch: local
System Description: Fedora Linux 36 (Workstation Edition)

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[Message part 3 (message/rfc822, inline)]

From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 57907-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#57907: 29.0.50; Using keywords with cl-loop
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 10:16:47 +0000

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net> writes:
>
>> I phrased that clumsily -- while it is a new language, it doesn't always
>> have to feel like one.
>
> And I'm saying that that feeling is a misleading feeling -- we're
> leading the users down the garden path.
>
>> E.g. the repeat-collect example I gave before.
>> If you *can* use keywords, you *can* make some cl-loop invocations
>> appear to be a macro or a function call with keyword-arguments.
>>
>> But of course this wouldn't be the case, as the macro should stay
>> backwards compatible.
>
> I understand that.  But it means that the stated rationale for this
> change does the users a disservice.
>
> So I'm against extending cl-loop in this way.  Gerd has explained why
> it works this way in Common Lisp (because CL doesn't have any other
> choice because that's the way the language works), but we should not
> shoehorn in this accident into Emacs, too.

While it might have had been an accident initially, I don't think it has
to be considered such.  As I said, there are reasons like syntax
highlighting for preferring keyword-symbols.  But if you don't think
this is a good idea, I'll go ahead and close the issue.

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