From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:17:35 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#57531 <57531@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#57531 <57531@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" Reply-To: bug#57531 <57531@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 14:17:35 +0000 retitle 57531 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" reassign 57531 emacs submitter 57531 Jonathan Reeve severity 57531 normal tag 57531 moreinfo thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 01 15:33:01 2022 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Sep 2022 19:33:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44222 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oTpvv-00071I-6r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 01 Sep 2022 15:33:01 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:38134) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oTpDy-0005oR-30 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 01 Sep 2022 14:47:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54688) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oTpDx-0006b5-Rl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Sep 2022 14:47:33 -0400 Received: from mail-4323.proton.ch ([185.70.43.23]:61145) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oTpDr-0005gU-R7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Sep 2022 14:47:33 -0400 Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2022 18:47:10 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jonreeve.com; s=protonmail3; t=1662058041; x=1662317241; bh=sjqBOqYbU/YQBe5G5pNa+2rEAFmKNMeK9ThiAzLRaVU=; h=Date:To:From:Reply-To:Subject:Message-ID:Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc: Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID:Message-ID; b=liBUCK965/pPWiYXGP2Ef+ZhqLHM7KF0VjhiysAFMEMphzJdMG9Np6Qqo3wyDIQ3o vg0T6eCC8hNnbiW6O2Im9gx+teA4LPVJNfrSJ1ALkizK5+IfzQlhCr7qqIwgXfep7t O5gzRz6leAJ4tULAAnwXt+qWZJjlwAtibT6KUgOC/ifjQI7zblT3Ka5Lm2fV75ObOd FaUF+tQLy0yzEqhSC1WYmn69PrBgTF4oQgOqgyNJVJBj7QJElXJG0D43PWevF1bKnB wTwFP9fkU2qWgwCa1txDahkGQkabHK+jC/2ZMJ/RyUf/l95p/ODMvMD8ZDySnTFioi lxvubK5ff7TOw== To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Jonathan Reeve Subject: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" Message-ID: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> Feedback-ID: 35010347:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.43.23; envelope-from=jonathan@jonreeve.com; helo=mail-4323.proton.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 01 Sep 2022 15:32:58 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Jonathan Reeve Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) When my language and locale are set to "eo," (Esperanto), the character encoding in Emacs is the wrong character encoding. It should be UTF-8, but instead it's something else. I think the problem is in the =3Dlocale-language-names=3D variable, which has these lines: ("en_IN" "English" utf-8) ; glibc uses utf-8 for English in India ("en" "English" iso-8859-1) ; English ("eo" . "Esperanto") ; Esperanto ("es" "Spanish" iso-8859-1) The line ("eo" . "Esperanto") should probably instead be ("eo" "Esperanto" utf-8). To test this, set your LANG variable to "eo" and then notice that the character encooding (locale-coding-system) is not utf-8, as it should be. -JR In GNU Emacs 28.1 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.34, cair= o version 1.16.0) Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12201003 System Description: NixOS 22.11 (Raccoon) Configured using: 'configure --prefix=3D/nix/store/c6j5affvi4yf2xvlhs60y0cfbs8d3d5k-emacs-28.1 --disable-build-details --with-modules --with-x-toolkit=3Dgtk3 --with-xft --with-cairo --with-native-compilation' Configured features: CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LIBOTF LIBSELINUX LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 M17N_FLT MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS X11 XDBE XIM XPM GTK3 ZLIB Important settings: value of $EMACSLOADPATH: value of $EMACSNATIVELOADPATH: /nix/store/p59mfplm858bb4b2g0hpa7sfmn7fknx= q-emacs-packages-deps/share/emacs/native-lisp:: 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tore/c6j5affvi4yf2xvlhs60y0cfbs8d3d5k-emacs-28.1/share/emacs/28.1/lisp/org/= org-footnote /home/jon/.emacs.d/.local/straight/build-28.1/org/ob-makefile hides /nix/st= ore/c6j5affvi4yf2xvlhs60y0cfbs8d3d5k-emacs-28.1/share/emacs/28.1/lisp/org/o= b-makefile /nix/store/p59mfplm858bb4b2g0hpa7sfmn7fknxq-emacs-packages-deps/share/emacs= /site-lisp/elpa/let-alist-1.0.6/let-alist hides /nix/store/c6j5affvi4yf2xvl= hs60y0cfbs8d3d5k-emacs-28.1/share/emacs/28.1/lisp/emacs-lisp/let-alist /home/jon/.emacs.d/.local/straight/build-28.1/map/map hides /nix/store/c6j5= affvi4yf2xvlhs60y0cfbs8d3d5k-emacs-28.1/share/emacs/28.1/lisp/emacs-lisp/ma= p /nix/store/p59mfplm858bb4b2g0hpa7sfmn7fknxq-emacs-packages-deps/share/emacs= /site-lisp/elpa/nadvice-0.3/nadvice hides /nix/store/c6j5affvi4yf2xvlhs60y0= cfbs8d3d5k-emacs-28.1/share/emacs/28.1/lisp/emacs-lisp/nadvice Features: (vc-hg vc-svn vc company-ispell company-dabbrev evil-collection-help shadow adaptive-wrap emacsbug macrostep-c cmacexp evil-collection-macrostep macrostep cc-mode-expansions smartparens-c cc-mode cc-fonts cc-guess cc-menus cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs evil-collection-view view solar cal-dst holidays hol-loaddefs org-duration cal-iso evil-org-agenda org-mu4e mu4e-alert time alert log4e notifications gntp org-msg htmlize gnus-msg gnus-icalendar icalendar diary-lib diary-loaddefs gnus-dired gnus-cite evil-collection-mu4e mu4e mu4e-org mu4e-main mu4e-view gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 mm-view mml-smime smime dig gnus-sum gnus-group gnus-undo gnus-start gnus-dbus dbus gnus-cloud nnimap nnmail mail-source utf7 netrc nnoo gnus-spec gnus-int gnus-range gnus-win evil-collection-gnus gnus nnheader mu4e-headers mu4e-compose mu4e-draft mu4e-actions smtpmail sendmail mu4e-search mu4e-lists mu4e-bookmarks mu4e-mark mu4e-message shr kinsoku svg xml dom flow-fill mu4e-contacts mu4e-update mu4e-folders mu4e-server mu4e-context mu4e-vars mu4e-helpers evil-traces evil-ex org-crypt org-eldoc toc-org evil-org spell-fu ispell nix-mode ffap smie nix-repl nix-shell nix-store nix-instantiate nix-shebang nix-format nix evil-collection-evil-mc evil-mc evil-mc-command-execute evil-mc-command-record evil-mc-cursor-make evil-mc-region evil-mc-cursor-state evil-mc-undo evil-mc-vars evil-mc-known-commands evil-mc-common elisp-demos evil-collection-indent evil-collection-helpful helpful trace evil-collection-edebug edebug backtrace info-look evil-collection-info info help-fns radix-tree evil-collection-elisp-refs elisp-refs tabify company-yasnippet evil-anzu anzu git-gutter-fringe fringe-helper git-gutter evil-collection-vc-git vc-git vc-dispatcher jka-compr auto-minor-mode whitespace flycheck-popup-tip evil-collection-popup popup flycheck-cask evil-embrace evil-surround embrace expand-region text-mode-expansions the-org-mode-expansions er-basic-expansions expand-region-core expand-region-custom eros highlight-quoted rainbow-delimiters vi-tilde-fringe highlight-numbers parent-mode display-line-numbers saveplace evil-collection-so-long so-long envrc inheritenv consult-flycheck evil-collection-consult consult-vertico consult compat-28 magit-bookmark evil-collection-bookmark bookmark eshell-syntax-highlighting fish-completion smartparens-config smartparens-rst smartparens-markdown smartparens-text smartparens em-term em-script em-ls em-hist em-pred em-glob em-cmpl em-basic em-banner em-alias em-tramp esh-help evil-collection-man man em-unix eshell-z em-dirs esh-var evil-collection-eshell em-prompt eshell-did-you-mean esh-mode eshell esh-cmd esh-ext esh-opt esh-proc esh-io esh-arg esh-module esh-groups esh-util vertico-directory mule-util cursor-sensor vertico-repeat evil-collection-magit-todos magit-todos pcre2el rxt re-builder hl-todo async org-roam-protocol org-protocol org-habit oc-natbib oc-csl org-roam-ui org-roam-dailies simple-httpd websocket bindat citar citar-file citar-cache citar-format org-ref org-ref-core org-ref-glossary org-ref-bibtex avy doi-utils org-ref-utils org-ref-export citeproc citeproc-itemgetters citeproc-biblatex parse-time citeproc-bibtex ol-bibtex ox-pandoc ox-org ox-odt rng-loc rng-uri rng-parse rng-match rng-dt rng-util rng-pttrn nxml-parse nxml-ns nxml-enc xmltok nxml-util ox-latex ox-icalendar org-agenda ox-ascii ox-md ox-html table ox-publish ox org-ref-misc-links org-ref-label-link org-ref-ref-links org-ref-citation-links evil-collection-xref xref project org-ref-bibliography-links hydra lv org-roam-bibtex orb-core orb-compat orb-utils bibtex-completion biblio biblio-download biblio-dissemin biblio-ieee biblio-hal biblio-dblp biblio-crossref biblio-arxiv timezone biblio-doi biblio-core url-queue ido parsebib org-indent evil-collection-org evil-collection-org-roam org-roam-migrate org-roam-log org-roam-mode org-roam-capture org-roam-id org-roam-node org-roam-db org-roam-utils org-roam-compat org-roam org-capture org-attach emacsql-sqlite url-http url-auth url-gw nsm emacsql emacsql-compiler smartparens-org org-yt org-element org-persist xdg org-id org-refile avl-tree generator org ob ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob ob-table ob-exp org-macro org-footnote org-src ob-comint org-pcomplete org-list org-faces org-entities noutline outline org-version ob-emacs-lisp ob-core ob-eval org-cycle org-table ol org-fold org-fold-core org-keys citeproc-cite citeproc-subbibs citeproc-sort citeproc-name citeproc-formatters citeproc-number rst citeproc-proc citeproc-disamb citeproc-itemdata citeproc-generic-elements citeproc-macro citeproc-choose citeproc-date citeproc-context citeproc-prange citeproc-style citeproc-locale citeproc-term citeproc-rt citeproc-lib citeproc-s queue bibtex iso8601 oc-biblatex oc org-compat org-macs org-loaddefs evil-collection-calendar cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs magit-autoloads evil-collection-magit magit-submodule magit-obsolete magit-popup magit-blame magit-stash magit-reflog magit-bisect magit-push magit-pull magit-fetch magit-clone magit-remote magit-commit magit-sequence magit-notes magit-worktree magit-tag magit-merge magit-branch magit-reset magit-files magit-refs magit-status magit magit-repos magit-apply magit-wip magit-log which-func magit-diff smerge-mode evil-collection-diff-mode diff-mode magit-core magit-autorevert magit-margin magit-transient magit-process magit-mode git-commit magit-git magit-base evil-collection-magit-section magit-section crm compat-27 compat-26 transient format-spec evil-collection-log-edit log-edit message rmc puny ranger evil-collection-dired dired dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml mml-sec gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddefs mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mailabbrev mail-utils gmm-utils mailheader pcvs-util add-log with-editor compat doom-snippets doom-snippets-lib yasnippet evil-collection-elisp-mode elisp-mode recentf tree-widget time-date gcmh hl-line winner ws-butler emojify evil-collection-apropos apropos evil-collection-tar-mode tar-mode evil-collection-arc-mode arc-mode archive-mode ht undo-tree diff flycheck-package package-lint evil-collection-imenu imenu evil-collection-finder finder evil-collection-flycheck flycheck find-func projectile lisp-mnt mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 mm-util ietf-drums mail-prsvr evil-collection-grep grep ibuffer-vc ibuf-ext evil-collection-ibuffer ibuffer ibuffer-loaddefs delsel hide-mode-line multi-term evil-collection-term term ehelp evil-collection-which-key which-key savehist better-jumper company-capf php-extras company evil-collection-vertico vertico orderless all-the-icons-completion marginalia evil-goggles evil-easymotion evil-escape evil-snipe server autorevert filenotify nav-flash evil-collection-compile compile pulse color persistent-soft list-utils pcache eieio-base font-utils unicode-fonts persp-mode dtrt-indent doom-modeline doom-modeline-segments doom-modeline-env doom-modeline-core shrink-path f f-shortdoc shortdoc text-property-search s all-the-icons all-the-icons-faces data-material data-weathericons data-octicons data-fileicons data-faicons data-alltheicons dash doom-themes-ext-treemacs doom-themes-ext-org solaire-mode face-remap doom-one-theme doom-themes doom-themes-base doom-start epa-file evil-collection-epa epa epg rfc6068 epg-config finder-inf evil-collection-package-menu evil-collection-custom cus-edit cus-load wid-edit evil-collection-comint evil-collection annalist doom-packages package browse-url url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie url-domsuf url-util mailcap url-handlers mu4e-config html2text let-alist auth-source-pass url-parse url-vars auth-source eieio password-cache json map ibuf-macs evil evil-integration evil-maps evil-commands reveal flyspell evil-jumps evil-command-window evil-search shell pcomplete comint ansi-color evil-types evil-macros evil-repeat evil-states evil-core comp comp-cstr warnings rx advice evil-common windmove calc calc-loaddefs calc-macs thingatpt rect evil-digraphs evil-vars ring derived use-package-bind-key bind-key edmacro kmacro doom-editor doom-projects doom-ui easy-mmode doom-keybinds pp general cl-extra help-mode seq byte-opt cl-seq use-package-core bytecomp byte-compile cconv eieio-core eieio-loaddefs cl doom-modules doom doom-lib pcase cl-macs gv jansson dynamic-modules subr-x cl-loaddefs cl-lib disp-table iso-transl tooltip eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray cl-preloaded nadvice button loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting cairo move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process native-compile emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 1915125 219341) (symbols 48 90414 15) (strings 32 508207 43438) (string-bytes 1 13601560) (vectors 16 185106) (vector-slots 8 6241377 160081) (floats 8 2117 3319) (intervals 56 21071 1018) (buffers 992 130)) -- -- Jonathan Reeve https://jonreeve.com From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 02 01:52:10 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Sep 2022 05:52:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44616 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oTzb7-0005wX-Tc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 01:52:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org 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by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oTzay-0000KR-5g; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 01:52:00 -0400 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2022 08:52:29 +0300 Message-Id: <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jonathan Reeve In-Reply-To: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> (message from Jonathan Reeve on Thu, 01 Sep 2022 18:47:10 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2022 18:47:10 +0000 > From: Jonathan Reeve > > > When my language and locale are set to "eo," (Esperanto), the character > encoding in Emacs is the wrong character encoding. It should be UTF-8, > but instead it's something else. Thank you for your report. Can you tell what is the default encoding in that case? > I think the problem is in the =locale-language-names= variable, > which has these lines: > > ("en_IN" "English" utf-8) ; glibc uses utf-8 for English in India > ("en" "English" iso-8859-1) ; English > ("eo" . "Esperanto") ; Esperanto > ("es" "Spanish" iso-8859-1) > > The line ("eo" . "Esperanto") should probably instead be ("eo" > "Esperanto" utf-8). If you want the UTF-8 encoding to be the default, why is your locale set to "eo" and not to "eo.UTF-8"? In general, Emacs prefers taking the locale's codeset from your system's definitions, to avoid overriding the user's system setup. It only applies default encoding when the locale doesn't specify the codeset, or when a locale can support only a single codeset. > To test this, set your LANG variable to "eo" and then notice that the > character encooding (locale-coding-system) is not utf-8, as it should be. Are you saying that the Esperanto locale _must_ use UTF-8? If so, why? AFAIK, ISO-8859-3 covers the Esperanto characters, so UTF-8 is not the only possible codeset for Esperanto locales. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 02 06:23:10 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Sep 2022 10:23:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44943 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oU3pO-0007PG-5l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 06:23:10 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:33892) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oU3pM-0007P2-Ju for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 06:23:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=lBih70SKDhbCSmwWfBGvbA9d05DLLInASA3EBlVElA0=; b=ul7vJzoBP/bLt4SeZ3ALyLLFlv yjzImZjYTk3s86nWWt27L0La4GeBqqQdJ60+ugZji5JMORD1tlulnQvGci7C3TZHhaNz8aMUltWaE c7Ynntr5XOGqidDdWMNAezccxplDRXET7j1RllFPRoj3l/9W2qrVRkIdLjTzS9m3mAUc=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oU3pC-0004Y9-Av for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 12:23:02 +0200 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2022 12:22:57 +0200 Message-Id: <87mtbixegu.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #57531 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 57531 + moreinfo quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 57531 + moreinfo quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 02 21:29:15 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Sep 2022 01:29:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40612 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUHyE-0004oE-RP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 21:29:15 -0400 Received: from mail-4317.proton.ch ([185.70.43.17]:37941) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUHyC-0004ny-Bg for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 21:29:13 -0400 Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 01:28:56 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jonreeve.com; s=protonmail3; t=1662168544; x=1662427744; bh=xwbK+IZbe+w11JurjdNaEIBgTLS8YJcNTXx6VBwXE2Y=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To: References:Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To: Feedback-ID:Message-ID; b=my3BrggHjtxlxF5q59A3XuGGj88wR5jT+VWo6u9Ev0MAVWXB1QvtRmEDuGLfClR9s tEsBOK5xmTzirT8MZsO2Rcl9CSsV//3qXgOtE5Yo/Qqw+fM36e6UIn/bogosRuFCFt WxNxW0l/VUofV5b0nLVqXNlFXH1keArnc5+hudiHfPBCwssFlr/OV6TVUgF2P163hF hgBn4K06PodRFqsla5jFIdzPE+kHyQ8v2ntI6EP95AmV0w1jjSPdib34+4Eh//6ABQ p2nnpkwmlAWdiP5Bh7b1A+Tx7JCFEAAj0V3OdjfoWUg173WBsFfab0D+92BFyScPFO ycS8K//dq4SSw== To: Eli Zaretskii From: Jonathan Reeve Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" Message-ID: <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> In-Reply-To: <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 35010347:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Jonathan Reeve Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) =E2=80=9CEli Zaretskii=E2=80=9D writes: > Can you tell what is the default encoding in that case? It looks like it=E2=80=99s `iso-latin-3', which is not working, since all m= y unicode characters get mangled. See [the screenshot in this question of m= ine on StackExchange.] > If you want the UTF-8 encoding to be the default, why is your locale > set to =E2=80=9Ceo=E2=80=9D and not to =E2=80=9Ceo.UTF-8=E2=80=9D? There is no eo.UTF-8 locale available to the system, as you can see [from t= he glibc documentation]. The =E2=80=9Ceo=E2=80=9D locale is actually UTF-8,= however. It=E2=80=99s interpreted as such just fine, across my whole syste= m, except for in the emacs terminal, where it gets interpreted as `iso-lati= n-3'. > Are you saying that the Esperanto locale _must_ use UTF-8? If so, > why? AFAIK, ISO-8859-3 covers the Esperanto characters, so UTF-8 is > not the only possible codeset for Esperanto locales. If you look at that glibc document, you=E2=80=99ll see that the =E2=80= =9Ceo=E2=80=9D locale is actually UTF-8. Unlike `en_US', which has variants= like `en_US.UTF-8' which is UTF-8 and `en_US' which is ISO-8859-1, there = is only `eo/UTF-8', i.e., `eo' which is UTF-8. [the screenshot in this question of mine on StackExchange.] [from the glibc documentation] From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 03 10:48:35 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Sep 2022 14:48:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42600 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUURn-0005Ll-91 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 10:48:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39082) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUURk-0005LW-D4 for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 10:48:34 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:36788) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUURe-0001w7-8q; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 10:48:26 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=HjUOJCCkmGo3rTRy3JARJIsliJYsWomAmJIty8+L4QM=; b=LhNKrSMukOhqG+7JrA77 EcoJRKz1CfzjBsZjuGLV1VWuF+3t6agbsp6vTDA6cwCM/m5fmuCm/CE6022EVGvNKNLxdlu0ZxloJ gZ/s3bcztQQyVDUVQS2FMc5NeQGdI4nCGHXUfdoMqj/tqFE0mSEJ9BWB/oJm17fYZAY0iTNunUVlG IeUl5L7L4kLQVuLEnL9rBHmfk7Fvt+3cSODpiuhdH4FsV4rhf3m2t8qqZ4iLTZqANjUBkq2FrULyh K7Gl5074MBKhJyIvUhiYC5IBF5IJgDSj2TwbX6k7/lRz3LHagPUfticiNGR3ql4N6WGogvdbnpaLQ QrwFVvC9fMo2hg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1660 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUURd-0007NS-M6; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 10:48:26 -0400 Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 17:47:59 +0300 Message-Id: <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jonathan Reeve In-Reply-To: <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> (message from Jonathan Reeve on Sat, 03 Sep 2022 01:28:56 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 01:28:56 +0000 > From: Jonathan Reeve > Cc: 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > > “Eli Zaretskii” writes: > > > Can you tell what is the default encoding in that case? > > It looks like it’s `iso-latin-3', which is not working, since all my unicode characters get mangled. See [the screenshot in this question of mine on StackExchange.] The characters in that post are supported by Latin-3, and I had no problem saving them. > > If you want the UTF-8 encoding to be the default, why is your locale > > set to “eo” and not to “eo.UTF-8”? > > There is no eo.UTF-8 locale available to the system, as you can see [from the glibc documentation]. The “eo” locale is actually UTF-8, however. It’s interpreted as such just fine, across my whole system, except for in the emacs terminal, where it gets interpreted as `iso-latin-3'. That's okay, but then all you need to say in Emacs is (prefer-coding-system 'utf-8) Put that in your init file, and see if your problem with non-ASCII characters is fixed. > > Are you saying that the Esperanto locale _must_ use UTF-8? If so, > > why? AFAIK, ISO-8859-3 covers the Esperanto characters, so UTF-8 is > > not the only possible codeset for Esperanto locales. > > If you look at that glibc document, you’ll see that the “eo” locale is actually UTF-8. Unlike `en_US', which has variants like `en_US.UTF-8' which is UTF-8 and `en_US' which is ISO-8859-1, there is only `eo/UTF-8', i.e., `eo' which is UTF-8. I don't know why glibc did that, and glibc-supported systems are not the only ones where we want to support Esperanto. So if the above simple customization fixes your problem, I'd prefer not changing the default for everyone. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 03 12:55:06 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Sep 2022 16:55:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42830 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUWQE-0004Zt-G6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 12:55:06 -0400 Received: from mail-40136.proton.ch ([185.70.40.136]:41751) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUWQD-0004ZK-Gv for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 12:55:05 -0400 Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 16:54:52 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jonreeve.com; s=protonmail3; t=1662224098; x=1662483298; bh=0k22Hy2GGG+L483ucUZQkAGrYqRp3JWiiDb6yCssa4Y=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To: References:Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To: Feedback-ID:Message-ID; b=ihfVvPi4SP3vSfK6KFP1H8Uegqe82NtD8cOiiMBOAcEqCenYvSE1l3BmXwfkB7y6b 2io3Y50Or4csxev5ciy0cSGvOIuclNN4Ln9rOwK0o4a0YzCsEAFZRKXAsGBs31RBNs wkm4fv9vruT3WX3IiAYZlDG6kPyTWuuIZeRLt74/FPasSCHtwXv4t5qPmoUveSN2ak wTICwGt/FgPEC6aLQXO29PtyWplFrZ3G1Sd9FYcOkOWm1GAV7ZmOw+LLtLJ5+wmrdV 8zcSdNsMOyBZrWfjNatVXYaPDIMYu3H1fcSkchPE9MqzpS6o2ulQy8+P9LgTGg5ZTQ KHE0gQFxb3jiQ== To: Eli Zaretskii From: Jonathan Reeve Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" Message-ID: <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> In-Reply-To: <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 35010347:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Jonathan Reeve Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > The characters in that post are supported by Latin-3, and I had no > problem saving them. It=E2=80=99s not about saving them, it=E2=80=99s about how they=E2=80=99re = displayed. If the rest of my system correctly uses unicode for the `eo' loc= ale, /because it=E2=80=99s a unicode locale,/ but emacs is the only one tha= t guesses it should be Latin-3 instead (for no reason that I can find), the= n it=E2=80=99s emacs which incorrectly handling this locale. > That=E2=80=99s okay, but then all you need to say in Emacs is > > (prefer-coding-system =E2=80=99utf-8) If emacs were really following system settings, it would set the encoding t= o utf-8 without needing extra customization from the user, since `eo' is a = UTF-8 locale. And incidentally, there=E2=80=99s no such locale as `eo.utf-8= ', from what I can tell. > I don=E2=80=99t know why glibc did that, and glibc-supported systems are = not > the only ones where we want to support Esperanto. So if the above > simple customization fixes your problem, I=E2=80=99d prefer not changing = the > default for everyone. It=E2=80=99s not about changing the default for everyone, it=E2=80=99s abou= t fixing an incorrect character encoding, making it so that emacs correctly= respects the locale=E2=80=99s character set. There=E2=80=99s no reason to = have the latin-3 character set, except for backwards compatibility, but tha= t=E2=80=99s irrelevant in the case of Esperanto, since I know of no program= , document, or anything else that would use latin-3 for Esperanto. Since th= e locale for Esperanto is a relatively new invention, it doesn=E2=80=99t ha= ve the same history of legacy character encodings as a language like Englis= h. In fact, not even emacs seems to define it as such, judging from this line = in `locale-language-names': `("eo" . "Esperanto")'. It just seems as if the= author of that variable didn=E2=80=99t know what character set to assign, = and left it blank. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 03 13:13:32 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Sep 2022 17:13:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42918 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUWi4-00057k-2T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 13:13:32 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43876) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUWi2-00057X-Dx for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 13:13:30 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:59636) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUWhx-0001E7-5H; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 13:13:25 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=p3+LqPhMC7O89W8i12jiaELQ4lwvYzEpWb/fGsmmf9w=; b=TH6M5vMlU04clpWcfbA4 aVMHktpuKR2rditpA0Z9I1ibQ9OQCLbmYZBTgDJzMEnyZKVdPIDq8P/kYrqNTl8gjK76y/cK7b2JA U39Z8B4jrdamyXitnlTU5YVgYxyQPdGH63eK1+AkqoxzkM5YCjI0Xioww9Drj5tuztkM2iLcoS8BQ 4LVc0nN97w1fP+I7i2oBTCin6dd5npuAtcqub/ONGQaXyrpusuDNxEm8YpMiIlDOyj+/vrw3/RsAd huRw3jL0uQf4lI7F+FReEPQsWRKEQbjfFdi0hGkOjQSBCj9Sga/HJzCB4D77qKpNHVLMyHp8M4+8g Ff7EZQMkPAG+JQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2612 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUWhw-0008A9-Fo; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 13:13:24 -0400 Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 20:12:58 +0300 Message-Id: <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jonathan Reeve In-Reply-To: <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> (message from Jonathan Reeve on Sat, 03 Sep 2022 16:54:52 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 16:54:52 +0000 > From: Jonathan Reeve > Cc: 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > > > The characters in that post are supported by Latin-3, and I had no > > problem saving them. > > It’s not about saving them, it’s about how they’re displayed. I believe this is due to the fact that the text was saved in UTF-8, and Emacs was trying to decode it as if it were in Latin-3. Using the prefer-coding-system customization should fix that. > If the rest of my system correctly uses unicode for the `eo' locale, /because it’s a unicode locale,/ but emacs is the only one that guesses it should be Latin-3 instead (for no reason that I can find), then it’s emacs which incorrectly handling this locale. I disagree. I think your system doesn't tell Emacs enough to guess correctly. > > That’s okay, but then all you need to say in Emacs is > > > > (prefer-coding-system ’utf-8) > > If emacs were really following system settings, it would set the encoding to utf-8 without needing extra customization from the user, since `eo' is a UTF-8 locale. There's no evidence of "eo" being a UTF-8 locale, except what we see in glibc. Which is just one library on just one OS. > And incidentally, there’s no such locale as `eo.utf-8', from what I can tell. OK. I didn't say there were, I just assumed there could be. > > I don’t know why glibc did that, and glibc-supported systems are not > > the only ones where we want to support Esperanto. So if the above > > simple customization fixes your problem, I’d prefer not changing the > > default for everyone. > > It’s not about changing the default for everyone, it’s about fixing an incorrect character encoding, making it so that emacs correctly respects the locale’s character set. Emacs cannot know the system character set unless the system tells that. The way to tell that is via the locale's codeset. If that is impossible, the next best is for you to tell that to Emacs in your init file. I don't understand why you insist on not using the solution I proposed. Please try the solution I proposed, and if it doesn't work, let's see what else is needed. If you keep insisting on defaulting Esperanto to UTF-8, I see now way to make any progress here. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 03 13:32:51 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Sep 2022 17:32:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42944 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUX0l-0005cJ-Gq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 13:32:51 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.10]:36162) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUX0j-0005c8-Pi for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 13:32:50 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4MKhgh3YD7z1s7sq; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 19:32:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4MKhgh0b8Yz1qqkC; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 19:32:48 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uZbSed8j4S81; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 19:32:47 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: JO0B/VmrWEUWM+Hk7L9kEE4gHgPCd5tWzL5U+0wzHCstcEKIxG5CDa1Mbf4YdrYX Received: from igel.home (ppp-46-244-186-195.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.186.195]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 19:32:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BC9252C39D3; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 19:32:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> X-Yow: Here is my refrigerator full of FLANK STEAK...and over there is my UPHOLSTERED CANOE...I don't know WHY I OWN them!! Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 19:32:46 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 03 Sep 2022 20:12:58 +0300") Message-ID: <877d2kz7lt.fsf@igel.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: Jonathan Reeve , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) On Sep 03 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Emacs cannot know the system character set unless the system tells > that. The way to tell that is via the locale's codeset. (locale-info 'codeset) -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 03 13:59:09 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Sep 2022 17:59:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42968 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUXQD-0006HZ-9c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 13:59:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54160) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUXQC-0006HO-0K for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 13:59:08 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35090) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUXQ5-0002Co-Th; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 13:59:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=HUf9uem5FjMOM7Tp3GgQamcDL3pONHygJZzoGdmTQpU=; b=cYU+Bo4KR37L N7WEMgG51IMPNlOtHM2uVbFwV3gohbvpTdnBsdE+XdzIodlaKomU4S1MlnW2ZNh95vfyrXZtX+JrC mrUDPQ8Qg1CAqYmF4GpsfXaKekkcF3MPxd90B1vjb4pH9vd/nxPv/VBufsMXcBjY3Ygz5MUYQ6Rbi tBF6IvmDqn8RYTnefkG80snp00NvvM208xPHyy7A1e3VsGJ40vjA4ZR11SAfbYUDJQyLOkS7gLF1O ad5CcGhxIO7RgCFgejHYuvBQPZIquVUgIhbGyI5HsgiNO2q4JgiEXeqRfNPIBCv49BI8ewGAtPLdG wMtkIjecl+MeACVQarapkQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1409 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUXQ5-0005wE-7b; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 13:59:01 -0400 Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 20:58:34 +0300 Message-Id: <83ler0mjat.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Andreas Schwab In-Reply-To: <877d2kz7lt.fsf@igel.home> (message from Andreas Schwab on Sat, 03 Sep 2022 19:32:46 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kz7lt.fsf@igel.home> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Andreas Schwab > Cc: Jonathan Reeve , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 19:32:46 +0200 > > On Sep 03 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > Emacs cannot know the system character set unless the system tells > > that. The way to tell that is via the locale's codeset. > > (locale-info 'codeset) We already use that. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 03 16:00:53 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Sep 2022 20:00:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43110 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUZK1-0000xW-8n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 16:00:53 -0400 Received: from mail-4317.proton.ch ([185.70.43.17]:48443) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUZJz-0000xH-I4 for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 16:00:52 -0400 Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 20:00:41 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jonreeve.com; s=protonmail3; t=1662235244; x=1662494444; bh=+qZk5hzpUKPdJnehzWoyNSb8yc9WFVDV+lYbvG06HTc=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To: References:Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To: Feedback-ID:Message-ID; b=dhTNQqk2nqE3Wk7fh2FqgCmOQ3brwpLdHojfm8v60d8Am5MFX+PhTVcXgzNHVthUy bRG6Er3dQMW52Ob/PA+q8QWBwotLGk2WdB2t+Ln10Z39bJWKBKsAUf2Eo+H50XMKlv ltzj8B+5gGzam4N5OECjxj0LLzydiQxWyxyMD8lLDk1JtZS0ZF4g4mGRNgXcw6Nl3p 6mgFJpHmUiGKFqLUe4u5cPHM3D+sAt49cu/W2tWmpgfmUmPeRGcMFTZk3c6D+muwOm q2LIFNHumUx1eCLQHaTiiMuBjO1A9q6enPKVQ8pd/jVAexOOnmjJ0WSw5Ka2TzCMiq 0LMHyM3taBANQ== To: Eli Zaretskii From: Jonathan Reeve Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" Message-ID: <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> In-Reply-To: <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 35010347:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Jonathan Reeve Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > I believe this is due to the fact that the text was saved in UTF-8, > and Emacs was trying to decode it as if it were in Latin-3. That=E2=80=99s the problem. Emacs should decode UTF-8 as UTF-8, not Latin-3= . The fact that it assumes a UTF-8 locale is in fact a Latin-3 locale, with= out any reasoning for that, is a problem. > Using the prefer-coding-system customization should fix that. The user shouldn=E2=80=99t have to customize an encoding system to have a U= TF-8 locale be interpreted as UTF-8. A UTF-8 locale should be encoded as su= ch, without needing to be told otherwise. > I disagree. I think your system doesn=E2=80=99t tell Emacs enough to gue= ss > correctly. It does, though. The locale data is already there, which is why I only have= this problem in Emacs, and nowhere else on my whole system. The problem is= in this line from `locale-language-names'. Here=E2=80=99s what it says: `("eo" . "Esperanto")' Here=E2=80=99s what it should say: `("eo" "Esperanto" utf-8)' > There=E2=80=99s no evidence of =E2=80=9Ceo=E2=80=9D being a UTF-8 locale,= except what we see > in glibc. Which is just one library on just one OS. The evidence is everywhere, in fact, across my whole system, and every othe= r system I=E2=80=99ve used. And glibc is not just one library on one OS: it= =E2=80=99s the reference data for locales across any UNIX-like or POSIX sys= tem. Show me any other library on any other OS that has locale data that suggest= s that =E2=80=9Ceo=E2=80=9D is anything other than UTF-8. In particular, sh= ow me a library that shows that the eo locale should be encoded as latin-3. > Emacs cannot know the system character set unless the system tells > that. The way to tell that is via the locale=E2=80=99s codeset. If that= is > impossible, the next best is for you to tell that to Emacs in your > init file. I don=E2=80=99t understand why you insist on not using the > solution I proposed. The system says that it=E2=80=99s a UTF-8 locale. It=E2=80=99s interpreted = as a UTF-8 locale by every other program except for emacs. It=E2=80=99s onl= y emacs that incorrectly assumes latin-3, and for no reason, as far as I ca= n tell. That=E2=80=99s because it=E2=80=99s getting its locale/encoding inf= ormation from `locale-language-names', which is incorrect, or at least inco= mplete. > Please try the solution I proposed, and if it doesn=E2=80=99t work, let= =E2=80=99s see > what else is needed. If you keep insisting on defaulting Esperanto to > UTF-8, I see now way to make any progress here. You=E2=80=99re not proposing a solution, you=E2=80=99re proposing a workaro= und. Any other user with the =E2=80=9Ceo=E2=80=9D locale will have this sam= e problem, and they shouldn=E2=80=99t be expected to find this email thread= , in order to find a special hack to have their system work as expected. There=E2=80=99s no reason at all why Esperanto should be encoded in latin-3= . It never has been, as far as I can tell, and it never well be, in latin-3= , with the eo locale. If you can find any good reason why it should be in l= atin-3, I=E2=80=99m all ears, but as far as I can tell, this is a mistake. Please keep in mind that /I=E2=80=99m trying to help improve emacs,/ by sub= mitting a bug report about behavior in emacs that is incorrect and potentia= lly causing problems for many users. Language like =E2=80=9CI see now way t= o make any progress here=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t extend any courtesy, any = effort towards understanding this problem, or even any effort towards givin= g it the benefit of the doubt. It makes the bug reporting process unnecessa= rily adversarial, and, quite frankly, feels unprofessional. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 03 16:13:36 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Sep 2022 20:13:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43119 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUZWK-0001FE-EB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 16:13:36 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:42877) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUZWI-0001F5-Bx for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 16:13:35 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4MKmF909Dqz1qy4Y; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 22:13:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4MKmF86K5Rz1qqkC; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 22:13:32 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jg4aR1wb7U9C; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 22:13:32 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: y9sjjjyQrmzAsMeQbf9r7pZDotduSUW2PrSfI3UN0LflK48/GstDgxvgGbFXWDNS Received: from igel.home (ppp-46-244-163-232.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.163.232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 22:13:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 86E192C3A6D; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 22:13:31 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kz7lt.fsf@igel.home> <83ler0mjat.fsf@gnu.org> X-Yow: We have DIFFERENT amounts of HAIR -- Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 22:13:31 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83ler0mjat.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 03 Sep 2022 20:58:34 +0300") Message-ID: <8735d8z05w.fsf@igel.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) On Sep 03 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Andreas Schwab >> Cc: Jonathan Reeve , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 19:32:46 +0200 >> >> On Sep 03 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> >> > Emacs cannot know the system character set unless the system tells >> > that. The way to tell that is via the locale's codeset. >> >> (locale-info 'codeset) > > We already use that. Why doesn't it work then? -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 04 01:02:47 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Sep 2022 05:02:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43264 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUhmR-0006GS-0J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 01:02:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53956) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUhmP-0006GF-9Y for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 01:02:45 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54608) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUhmJ-0001BE-Oe; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 01:02:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=iQNYXLsAiTcGTAl5jRBoFLj4IsmQbR/NEXJ5T4NcgI4=; b=B9DRv/Ehcz41 CyB/3UyG/ApUkmhyt3Rt3fpEp7HjIXv5eHlEPG+GZX84VBLPmiGH+s2AEIyaj0Ij9X965F+8j1v8z zq2J2bUE52K1jAvw6LTfrTVOXNscC1hxRk7lXcgc/H+Sc/YQzvfjrFSjSf+0txYbFMl0ppYLLaiJ0 UhDhOzGHJYXK3DEXHtdoEIV2O7EBTpza5TjZ8/JbDxHcG3UhJXUYvWSafugQT7MVFXi2Y6dUKfetu y59W2WQ07gZIeDnB0SFhR2K7N/QZLFkzaxlh13UFJsK6UW9Z1vE060fo9Zmp1T3ysf1To0abB/ThM 4Atr0xQ32KGf9kR8HG+WNA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2040 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUhmJ-00087G-7m; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 01:02:39 -0400 Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 08:02:14 +0300 Message-Id: <83bkrvn355.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Andreas Schwab In-Reply-To: <8735d8z05w.fsf@igel.home> (message from Andreas Schwab on Sat, 03 Sep 2022 22:13:31 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kz7lt.fsf@igel.home> <83ler0mjat.fsf@gnu.org> <8735d8z05w.fsf@igel.home> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Andreas Schwab > Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 22:13:31 +0200 > > On Sep 03 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> From: Andreas Schwab > >> Cc: Jonathan Reeve , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > >> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 19:32:46 +0200 > >> > >> On Sep 03 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> > >> > Emacs cannot know the system character set unless the system tells > >> > that. The way to tell that is via the locale's codeset. > >> > >> (locale-info 'codeset) > > > > We already use that. > > Why doesn't it work then? It does work. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 04 01:37:53 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Sep 2022 05:37:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43286 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUiKP-0007Jw-3S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 01:37:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47938) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUiKN-0007Ji-AC for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 01:37:51 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:38968) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUiKH-0005wc-Qy; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 01:37:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=9rHGBOLU41XuPItaU35VmfD5ZAwRsRNFddr+GfbphCY=; b=pg9UZZmrB0gHTLglhnn0 T2ay0LZ5V0/ZJKG4On6Pi7r+hd2oUDKKEL9yAuCJMY0RDeIL6Jkt5bZNh2PDgDpdWGylUCMXKaT31 otETPhq9fovNqB44PdcumWDRbroronHpF4gEFazt9m7U9FtEh/I57olCJ+J018+4i2+rOmIkgujUd JeeYdVqNRy581k/R2rIkzM6dgwhFuIYXN4g3rnP12315sO5sIp/miwIKDGnzfC+dLJ4k5+5mdj3gs oKBadxzf6XBP00CQcXyt82lqGn1fVv2WqX20uBwIOVW9yPqHEZterwaT9rE8vb2E8G2ILp5NjWkdo d+tSl07947tcSA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4184 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUiKH-0002nP-4g; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 01:37:45 -0400 Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 08:37:21 +0300 Message-Id: <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Jonathan Reeve In-Reply-To: <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> (message from Jonathan Reeve on Sat, 03 Sep 2022 20:00:41 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 20:00:41 +0000 > From: Jonathan Reeve > Cc: 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > > > I believe this is due to the fact that the text was saved in UTF-8, > > and Emacs was trying to decode it as if it were in Latin-3. > > That’s the problem. Emacs should decode UTF-8 as UTF-8, not Latin-3. It tries, but it isn't always 100% successful. > > Using the prefer-coding-system customization should fix that. > > The user shouldn’t have to customize an encoding system to have a UTF-8 locale be interpreted as UTF-8. A UTF-8 locale should be encoded as such, without needing to be told otherwise. Ideally, I agree. But in practice, we've found that goal unreachable in some cases. > > I disagree. I think your system doesn’t tell Emacs enough to guess > > correctly. > > It does, though. The locale data is already there, which is why I only have this problem in Emacs, and nowhere else on my whole system. The problem is in this line from `locale-language-names'. Here’s what it says: > > `("eo" . "Esperanto")' > > Here’s what it should say: > > `("eo" "Esperanto" utf-8)' That's only correct for glibc systems, though, as I already explained. I found no authoritative place on the Internet which would mandate that the Esperanto locale should use or prefer UTF-8 as its encoding. Once again, glibc is just one C library on just one OS. If you can show me some authoritative source of information about this locale which says it should use UTF-8, that could be a reason good enough to make such an incompatible change. And we need good reasons for such incompatible changes, because some users out there could have configurations or applications that depend on previous behavior. > The system says that it’s a UTF-8 locale. How does it say so? > > Please try the solution I proposed, and if it doesn’t work, let’s see > > what else is needed. If you keep insisting on defaulting Esperanto to > > UTF-8, I see now way to make any progress here. > > You’re not proposing a solution, you’re proposing a workaround. Would you please try it nonetheless? > There’s no reason at all why Esperanto should be encoded in latin-3. It never has been, as far as I can tell, and it never well be, in latin-3, with the eo locale. If you can find any good reason why it should be in latin-3, I’m all ears, but as far as I can tell, this is a mistake. No, it isn't a mistake. Latin-3 was introduced to cover Esperanto (and some other languages). That's why the Emacs Esperanto locale was configured to use it. It wasn't a random choice. > Please keep in mind that /I’m trying to help improve emacs,/ Please keep in mind that so am I. For many years, as a matter of fact. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 04 02:32:26 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Sep 2022 06:32:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43324 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUjBB-0000TR-Ni for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 02:32:26 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.10]:44146) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUjB9-0000TF-ED for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 02:32:24 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ML1zB28M7z1s7tD; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 08:32:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ML1z96Kjpz1qqkC; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 08:32:21 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1jBo2ab4RG2O; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 08:32:21 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: 7Vr/P5bYm3ybEw2vrBOKwGx1iA2/r5LC8TfLcOv3/TNFHAT9PLvyQv/L/l0YxgV/ Received: from tiger.home (ppp-46-244-171-214.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.171.214]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 08:32:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: by tiger.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 38E5F11796B; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 08:32:20 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kz7lt.fsf@igel.home> <83ler0mjat.fsf@gnu.org> <8735d8z05w.fsf@igel.home> <83bkrvn355.fsf@gnu.org> X-Yow: There's a SALE on STRETCH SOCKS down at the "7-11"!! Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 08:32:20 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83bkrvn355.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 04 Sep 2022 08:02:14 +0300") Message-ID: <87czcb1wgb.fsf@linux-m68k.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) On Sep 04 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Andreas Schwab >> Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 22:13:31 +0200 >> >> On Sep 03 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> >> >> From: Andreas Schwab >> >> Cc: Jonathan Reeve , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 19:32:46 +0200 >> >> >> >> On Sep 03 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> >> >> >> > Emacs cannot know the system character set unless the system tells >> >> > that. The way to tell that is via the locale's codeset. >> >> >> >> (locale-info 'codeset) >> > >> > We already use that. >> >> Why doesn't it work then? > > It does work. If it would work then Emacs would use UTF-8, but it doesn't. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 04 02:55:49 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Sep 2022 06:55:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43343 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUjXp-00013m-Bi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 02:55:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56744) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUjXo-00013b-7r for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 02:55:48 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:56254) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUjXi-0007Wl-Co; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 02:55:42 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=z0OuV/CwM8GPyh9sO1+f8Ii0x19fYHTOAlS/iFonn44=; b=GHJyISVik3Nr iQnXMPc7oHPAoLy4UfbV8c76JTwGE98S8Uq8mbjzdjFfBf3dsKfLN3I3/Y9nLGjXk0k4csJ8f7gKe +CdfgbR0qwK2wmTyjv5kdddw7T6zBckvXAkXob+HGSF5IvAgGwYa7yuNiGRZSuYgKCFwlpeaHE/fD OrqRRkH30SI1Mxie31ERluN9nN8UMO1rQH5pZG6xIrqOTcOsfX2EU5R2LVrYkvKLx+aIJ5FvjM7n4 4Yuw/6t+lrYE2y5qGOCqwn17P1t3ZgtDh63dyyZyNIie0xdGlQQX+74xRa0C0bHNoz8ir555vYq2U Y5J0Mxvm9r/lvDDSKaKV+w==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4956 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUjXB-00045n-AZ; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 02:55:18 -0400 Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 09:54:44 +0300 Message-Id: <83wnajljd7.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Andreas Schwab In-Reply-To: <87czcb1wgb.fsf@linux-m68k.org> (message from Andreas Schwab on Sun, 04 Sep 2022 08:32:20 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kz7lt.fsf@igel.home> <83ler0mjat.fsf@gnu.org> <8735d8z05w.fsf@igel.home> <83bkrvn355.fsf@gnu.org> <87czcb1wgb.fsf@linux-m68k.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Andreas Schwab > Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 08:32:20 +0200 > > On Sep 04 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> From: Andreas Schwab > >> Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > >> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 22:13:31 +0200 > >> > >> On Sep 03 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> > >> >> From: Andreas Schwab > >> >> Cc: Jonathan Reeve , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > >> >> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 19:32:46 +0200 > >> >> > >> >> On Sep 03 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > Emacs cannot know the system character set unless the system tells > >> >> > that. The way to tell that is via the locale's codeset. > >> >> > >> >> (locale-info 'codeset) > >> > > >> > We already use that. > >> > >> Why doesn't it work then? > > > > It does work. > > If it would work then Emacs would use UTF-8, but it doesn't. Because it uses Latin-3, as it should. As already explained, I see absolutely no convincing evidence anywhere that Esperanto should prefer UTF-8 by default. If you know of any authoritative source of such information, please point me to it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 04 03:03:05 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Sep 2022 07:03:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43351 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUjer-0001Fu-Kj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 03:03:05 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:60686) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUjep-0001Fk-5z for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 03:03:04 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ML2fZ0Cy8z1r0PY; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 09:03:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ML2fY5jm8z1qqkC; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 09:03:01 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bYyjd0MnzlvW; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 09:03:01 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: dS0XzPzU09jXcH3cn+rlEeJrwrV2IyXONVR1phbHizpmxMwnmUQHn9BWEMJvFZD4 Received: from tiger.home (ppp-46-244-171-214.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.171.214]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 09:03:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: by tiger.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8FC34117985; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 09:03:00 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> X-Yow: Then, it's off to RED CHINA!! Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 09:03:00 +0200 In-Reply-To: <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 04 Sep 2022 08:37:21 +0300") Message-ID: <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: Jonathan Reeve , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) On Sep 04 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > If you can show me some authoritative source of information about this > locale (locale-info 'codeset) -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 04 03:21:13 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Sep 2022 07:21:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43369 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUjwO-0001gP-Oa for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 03:21:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36506) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUjwM-0001gB-DY for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 03:21:10 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:55282) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUjwG-0002Sn-Kq; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 03:21:04 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=985yU2P2y1wN7yKzyszg/hBGCDtIuPzGljnOPR1LfHI=; b=nF0THCqYMR+W FgLOnD+hRd87luck1E0ezR8Pt+gz2DwBFnbLBC/cfhz4Yqlmb3XJmUapfcu9VYf3EKrKi5oL1/EDJ 9Epjpl0SMUOy7U57F83C6yhCyAYqYMIAf5RTiMzDB3N3kBOtOBmXXu1wQXZF2+ftN3NnyEFgcvndu xwX0ZPD6hJbrhDsXJpus06yd/HdDM5gDdSLKmUltMaaK4Q9j7r8s1LIMEu3htvGQYiPMWrY/F5Y9u vShgKZajXVzy/tayuefUEIZ5pPq1KMzAzE2EJ7xQnxWF6BADNZ2d0HQ2wDMv1X01YH5zweLy2kwEH 7c8sn9zULsBTxrd9CI/qjQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2557 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUjwG-0003j0-3X; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 03:21:04 -0400 Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 10:20:39 +0300 Message-Id: <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Andreas Schwab In-Reply-To: <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> (message from Andreas Schwab on Sun, 04 Sep 2022 09:03:00 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Andreas Schwab > Cc: Jonathan Reeve , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 09:03:00 +0200 > > On Sep 04 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > If you can show me some authoritative source of information about this > > locale > > (locale-info 'codeset) If you mean that set-locale-environment should use that, please say that explicitly. And then feel free to suggest a patch that does TRT with all the convoluted logic and preferences there, so that we don't disrupt the setup it took us decades to come up to, for the benefit of a single obscure locale. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 04 03:33:25 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Sep 2022 07:33:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43377 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUk8C-0001yr-OL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 03:33:24 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:53093) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUk89-0001yg-79 for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 03:33:21 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ML3KW1hq6z1r0mv; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 09:33:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ML3KW1L8zz1qqkD; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 09:33:19 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07vlXmHy1efe; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 09:33:18 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: NIWuFpoHeRtt+KkuSgVpyXDUZkiOzQm+MTm2xQXy4ejVyRIV6/JvSVuACdLkvnNN Received: from tiger.home (ppp-46-244-171-214.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.171.214]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 09:33:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: by tiger.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D6F1711799D; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 09:33:17 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kz7lt.fsf@igel.home> <83ler0mjat.fsf@gnu.org> <8735d8z05w.fsf@igel.home> <83bkrvn355.fsf@gnu.org> <87czcb1wgb.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83wnajljd7.fsf@gnu.org> X-Yow: I will SHAVE and buy JELL-O and bring my MARRIAGE MANUAL!! Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 09:33:17 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83wnajljd7.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 04 Sep 2022 09:54:44 +0300") Message-ID: <871qsr1tmq.fsf@linux-m68k.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) On Sep 04 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Because it uses Latin-3, as it should. Nope, it should use UTF-8. > If you know of any authoritative source of such information, please > point me to it. (locale-info 'codeset) -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 04 03:34:48 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Sep 2022 07:34:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43382 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUk9Y-00020r-4Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 03:34:48 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.10]:58611) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUk9W-00020i-C8 for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 03:34:46 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ML3M94mV1z1s7tc; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 09:34:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ML3M94bzcz1qqkC; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 09:34:45 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 89ounOIs-2Vv; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 09:34:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: X7nTQpZNd3cYbClWTKx+Sziy92iAYOIg1odxL18CSBSU/FmbHX1KMRtMNyamUIee Received: from tiger.home (ppp-46-244-171-214.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.171.214]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 09:34:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: by tiger.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4FB971179A0; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 09:34:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> X-Yow: Hello, GORRY-O!! I'm a GENIUS from HARVARD!! Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 09:34:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 04 Sep 2022 10:20:39 +0300") Message-ID: <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) On Sep 04 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Andreas Schwab >> Cc: Jonathan Reeve , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 09:03:00 +0200 >> >> On Sep 04 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> >> > If you can show me some authoritative source of information about this >> > locale >> >> (locale-info 'codeset) > > If you mean that set-locale-environment should use that, please say > that explicitly. And then feel free to suggest a patch that does TRT > with all the convoluted logic and preferences there, so that we don't > disrupt the setup it took us decades to come up to, for the benefit of > a single obscure locale. It's not for a single obscure locale, it's for all of them. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 04 03:47:02 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Sep 2022 07:47:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43395 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUkLO-0002It-29 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 03:47:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36078) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUkLL-0002IO-Ne for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 03:47:00 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:38898) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUkLF-0005sX-Tc; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 03:46:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=O5B+1WgLIZIFLQ62CcOwEoToCS0L857xNnVEMTSA0CM=; b=gigeGKgsfT+I 8u+Pu02LMn8b867P7KVu7tLvDooo+cf1pl4VR7qcvHLKnak3IAqCp1hoPAng722eTccuAXODePxME zSduduEVXeOm5BcmzYCtX0GK02aOda8MEdCBJzKGR1F1gVhVbf3vkoVDkL60X8EFzOvcuXovbJLd9 uqavMI8w/sWCBZyurYXiD3FDan40iEl+RBRVM4oxO7EcQqFQ7kGnZhZHqS/8JX8cSPFF066WOFj/3 nq7B9Tk6MAwTsRDGbhnnU4e+fP3W6v/exHtrK7KDLevblkHFKDAVzurJAZjeyxOpizdK+fjNHziYq zjucfdNvZ+fWUsDkNBg3ag==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4384 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUkLF-0003Cd-9r; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 03:46:53 -0400 Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 10:46:29 +0300 Message-Id: <83tu5nlgyy.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Andreas Schwab In-Reply-To: <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> (message from Andreas Schwab on Sun, 04 Sep 2022 09:34:44 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Andreas Schwab > Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 09:34:44 +0200 > > On Sep 04 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> From: Andreas Schwab > >> Cc: Jonathan Reeve , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > >> Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 09:03:00 +0200 > >> > >> On Sep 04 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> > >> > If you can show me some authoritative source of information about this > >> > locale > >> > >> (locale-info 'codeset) > > > > If you mean that set-locale-environment should use that, please say > > that explicitly. And then feel free to suggest a patch that does TRT > > with all the convoluted logic and preferences there, so that we don't > > disrupt the setup it took us decades to come up to, for the benefit of > > a single obscure locale. > > It's not for a single obscure locale, it's for all of them. Does that mean you do suggest that set-locale-environment calls locale-info? Or do you suggest something different? Anyway, for all the other locales, the current code already works, and works well. So we will be risking breakage while fixing one locale that on one particular OS works less well. But like I said: feel free to submit a patch that doesn't potentially destroy everything we have in that setup. If the patch is safe enough, I see no reason not to accept it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 04 04:28:37 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Sep 2022 08:28:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43445 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUkzc-0003MC-J9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 04:28:36 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57662) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUkzb-0003La-EK for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 04:28:35 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:55704) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUkzV-0002md-U2; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 04:28:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=oXwSSXDH5T/hiSp/nxFtdeelb+VZe8pc8LAC7o6MPuc=; b=Joi93caH1jYO 9LGgxz4J2bl8YgrtTg/5kdL9C/ygFDttM2InKuJeDIRysFhEbxr7V256RkDogbOUWhDL5TyCmCYWz u7zOdVvcjgustbeuxDZCKmQeN9y61MdxM3YyPURNSRnnc9dgQ/LjZqwcTJU0ZJA8En4Q6eZGmA+u9 SMKwhyAJG1uLf3ukN5Id9PwbssW5QMzJHEToj1Gog1cUd2dOi0fIUdBTF2PqCZjztw6gIe7WtViEI lsS9PfV38oPaDLCR0S+4kuD12pkGbZvp0H9K4PSSFA2fFGyaCHFXAxM8D6hVILYj4W1+YYg6lag8B jyHW/fMKsJXThuzWDT56wg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2937 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUkzV-0005zy-Ct; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 04:28:29 -0400 Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 11:28:06 +0300 Message-Id: <83r10rlf1l.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: jonathan@jonreeve.com In-Reply-To: <83tu5nlgyy.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Sun, 04 Sep 2022 10:46:29 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83tu5nlgyy.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: 57531@debbugs.gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 10:46:29 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii > > But like I said: feel free to submit a patch that doesn't potentially > destroy everything we have in that setup. If the patch is safe > enough, I see no reason not to accept it. Something like the below could be acceptable, if it solves the problem. diff --git a/lisp/international/mule-cmds.el b/lisp/international/mule-cmds.el index 4137642..6866291 100644 --- a/lisp/international/mule-cmds.el +++ b/lisp/international/mule-cmds.el @@ -2317,7 +2317,7 @@ locale-language-names ;; en_IN -- fx. ("en_IN" "English" utf-8) ; glibc uses utf-8 for English in India ("en" "English" iso-8859-1) ; English - ("eo" . "Esperanto") ; Esperanto + ("eo" "Esperanto" locale-info) ; Esperanto ("es" "Spanish" iso-8859-1) ("et" . "Latin-9") ; Estonian ("eu" . "Latin-1") ; Basque @@ -2522,8 +2522,12 @@ locale-language-names (LOCALE-REGEXP LANG-ENV CODING-SYSTEM) The first element whose LOCALE-REGEXP matches the start of a downcased locale specifies the LANG-ENV \(language environment) -and CODING-SYSTEM corresponding to that locale. If there is no -appropriate language environment, the element may have this form: +and CODING-SYSTEM corresponding to that locale. +CODING-SYSTEM can be the special symbol `locale-info', which +means we should call `locale-info' to request the codeset of +the current locale. +If there is no appropriate language environment, the element may +have this form: (LOCALE-REGEXP . LANG-ENV) In this case, LANG-ENV is one of generic language environments for an specific encoding such as \"Latin-1\" and \"UTF-8\".") @@ -2794,9 +2798,23 @@ set-locale-environment ;; locale-language-names specify both lang-env and coding. ;; But, what specified in locale-preferred-coding-systems ;; has higher priority. - (setq coding-system (or coding-system - (nth 1 language-name)) - language-name (car language-name)) + (progn + (setq coding-system (or coding-system + (nth 1 language-name)) + language-name (car language-name)) + ;; If locale-language-names specifies we should query + ;; the underlying libc, do that now, but only when we + ;; are setting up for the current locale, i.e. when this + ;; function is called from startup.el with an argument + ;; of nil. + (if (eq coding-system 'locale-info) + (if locale-name + (setq coding-system nil) + (let ((locale-codeset (locale-info 'codeset))) + (when (stringp locale-codeset) + (setq coding-system (intern (downcase locale-codeset))) + (unless (coding-system-p coding-system) + (setq coding-system nil))))))) ;; Otherwise, if locale is not listed in locale-language-names, ;; use what listed in locale-charset-language-names. (if (not language-name) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 04 04:39:39 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Sep 2022 08:39:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43455 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUlAJ-0003dA-4O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 04:39:39 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:34639) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUlAH-0003d1-9h for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 04:39:37 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ML4p00TdVz1r0mP; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 10:39:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ML4p004l6z1qqkC; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 10:39:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id woUZrhdvV941; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 10:39:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: hRum/JgXzmAwb43JtbpxDs54xvqqfAnKC4r2ZTvrggfy4OB0NWEsrBZPSvBz2UVX Received: from tiger.home (ppp-46-244-171-214.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.171.214]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 10:39:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: by tiger.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BE9B21179E4; Sun, 4 Sep 2022 10:39:34 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Jonathan Reeve Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> X-Yow: I LOVE juxtaposing th' splendor of an unpopulated ARROYO with th' SLEEK lines of ``NARCISSUS-X'', my new SPORTS UTILITY VEHICLE! Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 10:39:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> (Jonathan Reeve's message of "Thu, 01 Sep 2022 18:47:10 +0000") Message-ID: <87pmgbzg6x.fsf@linux-m68k.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) What does grep ^eo /usr/share/X11/locale/locale.alias return? -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 04 04:49:13 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Sep 2022 08:49:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43469 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUlJY-0003uz-UX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 04:49:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47442) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUlJX-0003um-M2 for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 04:49:12 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:59032) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUlJR-0005av-QC; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 04:49:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=KWXiCuglxSrH1PCmp84RDALhLjk1Fhpfouc6msg8IZI=; b=HWVY0uCnY+ma TYDJH+N952NV3LpzNsVWg/blusr7u/39zYfbP6hJQ998S7BBP4SGQumdFkt3ebAWnpkzBdS5JpJKh mERwacjlNbYrUfzUlFKxusxryKG13w6ZXwfelbwgItQuupk0X4cXp82p80qn+8FSHVZ+ETSajpk3V pBU7QUQrz2um//0kWVeuNfTTJoX5VYftGh+MvUsy9pjw2WOrZubom7h+7UVn7wFBV+u/xy6iEcXSz P7aGWrqXyMy+el4SgSdkbKI89DoEyI+/CLkM/W6++hVKlENRrAclUONWQUAr8tM5tqA5tlOm40H/Q bripjoJ+bEfR8HOaFjn9gQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4301 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUlJQ-0002hh-Jl; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 04:49:04 -0400 Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 11:48:40 +0300 Message-Id: <83pmgble3b.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Andreas Schwab In-Reply-To: <87pmgbzg6x.fsf@linux-m68k.org> (message from Andreas Schwab on Sun, 04 Sep 2022 10:39:34 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <87pmgbzg6x.fsf@linux-m68k.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Andreas Schwab > Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 10:39:34 +0200 > > What does grep ^eo /usr/share/X11/locale/locale.alias return? FWIW, here it returns: eo eo_XX.ISO8859-3 eo_EO eo_EO.ISO8859-3 eo_EO.ISO8859-3 eo_EO.ISO8859-3 eo_XX eo_XX.ISO8859-3 eo_XX.ISO8859-3 eo_XX.ISO8859-3 eo: eo_XX.ISO8859-3 eo_EO: eo_EO.ISO8859-3 eo_EO.ISO8859-3: eo_EO.ISO8859-3 eo_XX: eo_XX.ISO8859-3 eo_XX.ISO8859-3: eo_XX.ISO8859-3 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 04 19:35:49 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Sep 2022 23:35:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45925 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUz9S-0004De-Qm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 19:35:49 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:55084) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUz9Q-0004DU-1H for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 19:35:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1662334538; bh=8llUN0Gd/EBkLVp0IZz9WDDK0DzcPcrIUl0gTgxd8Ng=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=2uUuB+1/Y9JVLMXL4zI0pFBNt8Dqk/mxUNV6tL4UAzWvu6HFke59PrLwmiQrGg7BL DzRk0Tsj1ybKEE2/vH2B1tva7+BsBXMQbwYtuMyqt/xiQtpPKEP8HMA0UgHE14TmWs +TeOGN5y77e3B7VlRq8XCa9rTiTuVptCn3/r6bUHePNgKVrnOpkTyeDCMs7d4Ff1K0 19PMVc8jfIhV1B/TM5Diz25i7xUAYYH+VHind38M7Oz+zkwG1Qz95ZHMh+1KTelS5V PK9XVq7zCAcbGQ3VV4Ggfjy64Ne1a5rY+xKJGmF7tM3dP5fbZno79HdTevac0eMUhA R+ZzSHxRuzMew== Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 23:35:37 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <6fb0e08e80e292e6c7a0@heytings.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-ID: <6fb0e08e80e3d51347b8@heytings.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: Jonathan Reeve , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> The problem is in this line from `locale-language-names'. Here's what >> it says: >> >> `("eo" . "Esperanto")' >> >> Here's what it should say: >> >> `("eo" "Esperanto" utf-8)' > > That's only correct for glibc systems, though, as I already explained. I > found no authoritative place on the Internet which would mandate that > the Esperanto locale should use or prefer UTF-8 as its encoding. > I don't think it's possible to find a truly authoritative source of information about an artificial language. One semi-authoritative source is Bertilo Wennergren, who is (according to Wikipedia) a member of the Esperanto Academy and "holds the post of director of the Academy's General Dictionary section". He appears to be the expert on that matter (namely computer encodings for Esperanto), and explains on his website that: Latino 3 is made for Esperanto and for the Galician, Maltese and Turkish languages. However, few computer programs support Latin 3, and some bodies have even directly discouraged the use of Latin 3. The Turks currently prefer the character code Latin 5 (ISO 8859-9) . Esperantists also currently prefer and should prefer Unicode instead of Latin 3. [1, translation from Google] He also gives instructions on how to configure a GNU/Linux distribution for Esperanto: To be able to use Esperanto well in Linux, it is necessary that the system uses a Unicode locale. Fortunately, more or less all Linux distributions currently use Unicode locales by default. To check which character code your system's locale uses, type the following command: "locale charmap". If the answer appears "UTF-8" (that is the most commonly used code representation of Unicode), then everything about character code in your locale is already in order. [2, translation from Google] Amusingly, at the bottom of that page one finds: It is also possible to speak Esperanto in the powerful text editor "Emacs", but I know nothing about "Emacs". I myself mainly use the Vim editor. Here are instructions for installing and configuring Unicode Vim 7. So it seems safer to assume that the coding system is UTF-8 when the locale is "eo" (which IIUC is what the above suggested change does), and to expect users who would not like that default to add (prefer-coding-system 'iso-latin-3) in their init file, than to assume ISO-8859-3 when the locale is "eo" (which IIUC is what Emacs currently does), and to expect users who do not like that default to add (prefer-coding-system 'utf-8) in their init file. [1] https://bertilow.com/html/signokodoj/latino3.html [2] https://bertilow.com/komputo/linukso.html From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 04 20:00:24 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 00:00:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45930 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUzXM-0004qZ-Jt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 20:00:24 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:55108) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUzXK-0004qQ-Gn for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 20:00:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1662336021; bh=/So4J5zum3/C5UKSQRidVlaZplQ1H4Dmh7hID9VmtwQ=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=zC8EXPMolsEbzzqKxi6SXx+eEi4ir64a9qZtOnRZg1S2jpPLoXtZFB3c7MZ962CzT xQQr9ILMHKNzXYXW5Pe3JukEAlNJXMp+2ssnSi/04bG9+BcMIEEgCh/XOvWdHkFd6/ LBOX4FncTMt13q3kCjKRdbE/jCDJSb6jYEuddeqJlZcgQgu/2cZ72hxHmfjkzLEofL KZDN+r1uuAdFl1Vdc+gHgm4fY2MfTZWh3bTFw70XacK8BCULoQYqZXmaD8rmFd8ma0 0dnDr0jDNtxqu8bDh4CS1jN6sbqba3BWPWbR/n+rTpfAf1E4TOkDtBPcbWHJVpnxGs JfLjtLoTIRZyQ== Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 00:00:20 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Andreas Schwab Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> Message-ID: <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, Eli Zaretskii , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>> (locale-info 'codeset) >> >> If you mean that set-locale-environment should use that, please say >> that explicitly. And then feel free to suggest a patch that does TRT >> with all the convoluted logic and preferences there, so that we don't >> disrupt the setup it took us decades to come up to, for the benefit of >> a single obscure locale. > > It's not for a single obscure locale, it's for all of them. > Except that most other locales have "UTF-8" in their name when UTF-8 should be used, so the current logic selects the right encoding, without consulting (locale-info 'codeset). For example, with the locale "mt_MT", Emacs uses ISO-8859-3, and with the locale "mt_MT.UTF-8", Emacs uses UTF-8. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 04:16:27 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 08:16:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46364 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oV7HO-0004xX-Lw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 04:16:27 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:55512) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oV7HI-0004xJ-Hl for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 04:16:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1662365779; bh=7hzRnGQzsbQtM91Qx0WJ2MuQ3RPpf1tjAERJY9WoHc4=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=vUHgWYcxN25LchoF96m2Q7LoGoKBr2vyGEvKZrwJxWCNEO15adxtvRVtoqkjAbilI PNPefhXJi3Lwcj9OGbUbreIrcx3IL0bW6FjhZMD1AcyTUqx15BUzHgM4CWI4Og3/RQ gx14KTuBaCCBpqEO3m4hoCbrj7VBNJ1RVzkOHrSVmFhWBnXXU6UDg7aw6RCv5vly6y +pqJThx+GN8GVfGq+7jrQ/hEn5AaG6g4+1cMr+k788dunBr1tKkqv96nR2rOv9MPOy +TBLBGS0fScN/Fw7pm+t5WXutzUq3x3N6lqiEKsMas7CKLN0mN9Us7wsbNwLyeayjS hKFSxj7GG/2Og== Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:16:18 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Andreas Schwab Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> Message-ID: <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, Eli Zaretskii , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>> (locale-info 'codeset) >>> >>> If you mean that set-locale-environment should use that, please say >>> that explicitly. And then feel free to suggest a patch that does TRT >>> with all the convoluted logic and preferences there, so that we don't >>> disrupt the setup it took us decades to come up to, for the benefit of >>> a single obscure locale. >> >> It's not for a single obscure locale, it's for all of them. > > Except that most other locales have "UTF-8" in their name when UTF-8 > should be used, so the current logic selects the right encoding, without > consulting (locale-info 'codeset). For example, with the locale > "mt_MT", Emacs uses ISO-8859-3, and with the locale "mt_MT.UTF-8", Emacs > uses UTF-8. > (BTW, this also means that the OP could solve his problem by using "eo.UTF-8" for his locale instead of only "eo".) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 04:58:49 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 08:58:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46386 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oV7wL-0005zo-Kd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 04:58:49 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:38180) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oV7wI-0005zY-JZ for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 04:58:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=1+xYo6UjnZJ+bkORJGNLK+edQainWWEF+rSO9LQNhPw=; b=s+cXmxB1vs6CoCXXx8w7oVWCN2 6H9G2DYnTzl9CHNDhubs6NeqOQfDx7D8IqnJPNtQwG0QLTyBRzuPF//Bh258atqLq0DXmII+rLorP 2FCFxRjGjPomL9OwZm8X0bIUFZrScbr1ZmAytsb8PkZkxRPgx6lSq25ZZqfc2v5a4D8E=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oV7w7-0008FP-JF; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 10:58:34 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Gregory Heytings Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> (Gregory Heytings's message of "Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:16:18 +0000") References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEUeEhNSUj6ZTE9O KSn///9g5oYHAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+YJBQg5O4eb9VoAAAGUSURBVDjLdZOLse0g CEU1uwE5NpBoAyj993ZB1HzmPTITP8uNChhCLJW+VrKEEH8pqLG4WT+WMfVfE28wh6yfTxze6fY7 Q6g4FxAGS++sC2rgjooJtHucnfvJOte5HgUb6LRIZ3SIVEjdQM7e5QjoglrBYxddpd5FlyIwhIXH bsvUK+oa9D0dQ2T7D9u3ButUykiK1VngFJ1BQkuUCJFIO8OWomUbRLQZ3bzDpX0Fca6nxNNVEOaY ojoLZGJ6nHfFV4XNAUTWoQUAtUjtozjKtjSG60bQuETi2EAWlFhunYLMMGCDq+WJGDBAE6jLcykG ENA+0O2KkuT4Bebqn0CvqPu1LxADetyW2xPM6uwlvwEcSC+FDDQP7lBo8oL8rgV06bieNGt4ATHf Djxr/SqXKxaYBfAC/lhYPMmV3gBhlEbT1G7Q/MAWUpRLHoB9rYHrJ/ep5u4jCZLFnDloyUGyhIgp XgAGtCzxUPjdJtCSywvQDazN4wo3aFtxgzsox/kCvntab2ICreF0vzHmrdhV74oJ/gCHx1JWtVWj PQAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0wOS0wNVQwODo1Nzo1OCswMDowMDRRy+wAAAAldEVY dGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDktMDVUMDg6NTc6NTgrMDA6MDBFDHNQAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Dorothy Ashby's _Afro-Harping_: "Life has its Trials" Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 10:58:29 +0200 Message-ID: <87v8q242q2.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Gregory Heytings writes: > (BTW, this also means that the OP could solve his problem by using > "eo.UTF-8" for his locale instead of only "eo".) That locale doesn't seem to exist on Debian systems, for instance: Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, Eli Zaretskii , Andreas Schwab , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Gregory Heytings writes: > (BTW, this also means that the OP could solve his problem by using > "eo.UTF-8" for his locale instead of only "eo".) That locale doesn't seem to exist on Debian systems, for instance: $ grep eo /etc/locale.gen # eo UTF-8 # eo_US.UTF-8 UTF-8 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 05:10:22 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 09:10:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46408 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oV87a-0006KI-0w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 05:10:22 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:55582) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oV87W-0006K5-Ft for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 05:10:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1662369017; bh=3UqQT9+qCVyryXor9xhXAbswSfNsULEble4/PO0DXzg=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=2fPHYgMvvVjTNsva3dKjrfx93oPxRpyVMbE6bjw/HrDqiUXse32mlFNjDNhoqDvL2 ipRBR652QjeVl9u+9Br6yT5X6jd1sBRNpcUnQaAMrk6o1MW2mst9sZGciUvTte0u+v h+LXFENGIFymcot67VfasnH14k4tPuGriuBOgQRkrQH5vhnBkf5OhCgrty0WJ1yk/w E8+sm46CNVd654/fqsBs/Wkb9K4zNvC/xr4mwS3LFSb9P6R4BgK3DwbdFlq+Lt4i5+ CT7MqtXLCFVlojSFn21zak1ejwrXh/4atKalf9KINBhzO2gfMxTKnb7+3ouBnicdcT vMfLj3FJa+6Ow== Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 09:10:16 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: <87v8q242q2.fsf@gnus.org> Message-ID: <0b2303e3928a4abb2a7f@heytings.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <87v8q242q2.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, Eli Zaretskii , Andreas Schwab , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> (BTW, this also means that the OP could solve his problem by using >> "eo.UTF-8" for his locale instead of only "eo".) > > That locale doesn't seem to exist on Debian systems, for instance: > > $ grep eo /etc/locale.gen > # eo UTF-8 > # eo_US.UTF-8 UTF-8 > Sorry, I meant "eo" and "eo.utf8". You can try (after activating the "eo" locale): env LC_ALL=eo emacs -Q env LC_ALL=eo.utf8 emacs -Q and you'll see that in the latter case UTF-8 is used and in the former Latin-3. You'd get the same result with LANG instead of LC_ALL. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 05:24:11 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 09:24:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46423 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oV8Kw-0006g6-OI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 05:24:10 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:51947) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oV8Kt-0006fw-Nn for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 05:24:09 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4MLjkt2PKdz1qybn; Mon, 5 Sep 2022 11:24:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4MLjks6vNrz1qqkD; Mon, 5 Sep 2022 11:24:05 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QgQvv9_TMO1O; Mon, 5 Sep 2022 11:24:05 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: AJpIoK8xJqrOL4clYwf02izz3uTQiFtP/WlsqBxN0OUShTp1N2M8vrRccFCrOeW8 Received: from hawking (unknown [81.95.8.244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Mon, 5 Sep 2022 11:24:05 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <87v8q242q2.fsf@gnus.org> X-Yow: Are we THERE yet?! Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 11:24:04 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87v8q242q2.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 05 Sep 2022 10:58:29 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, Gregory Heytings , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Sep 05 2022, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Gregory Heytings writes: > >> (BTW, this also means that the OP could solve his problem by using >> "eo.UTF-8" for his locale instead of only "eo".) > > That locale doesn't seem to exist on Debian systems, for instance: Yes, it does. $ LC_ALL=eo.UTF-8 locale -k title title="Esperanto language locale" -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 05:30:34 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 09:30:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46438 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oV8R8-0006ru-9p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 05:30:34 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:55610) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oV8R6-0006rk-A6 for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 05:30:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1662370231; bh=PYposTRzEixv0bRQGebiCnI69eqlrTUk8NFIyfEqXAY=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=iDmxejI+5e7dzDNiJgKi7rv4/SaiGxI/4GXCcq6YOYjG2kn+pNjhlE7p5bjMaovsk sS197/iIDwFUwxdi3kehwRb4pUMNYy2xkFFqi5rI7sWsS5X5S3yN9eYAVhCCrXOQ9L Cz+hW31IHyT3+VBU5Y05jCKj912x0jHxIeHY0Z2kMf/WN2CII1ZspZfmmYtOgsW6tV YVuaVKzX0aAncSZE797EQojeK1T2uvgQm+wM6igzpuBmEFXwlbcm3dGeK5UtFNp5oW dsbYUnpQZJ2q/6QhtzwSisEEpqB9dofjSou78/m3TYQscosTvWLRQNdy0e2WX5S9c6 ByFmcmotctE9Q== Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 09:30:30 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Andreas Schwab Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0b2303e392d6904c9e6b@heytings.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <87v8q242q2.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, Lars Ingebrigtsen , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>> (BTW, this also means that the OP could solve his problem by using >>> "eo.UTF-8" for his locale instead of only "eo".) >> >> That locale doesn't seem to exist on Debian systems, for instance: > > Yes, it does. > > $ LC_ALL=eo.UTF-8 locale -k title > title="Esperanto language locale" > Oh yes, indeed. So in fact you can use both "eo.utf8" (which is what locale -a displays) or "eo.UTF-8". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 05:39:47 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 09:39:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46455 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oV8a3-00075K-JA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 05:39:47 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.10]:49254) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oV8Zz-000759-Fw for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 05:39:46 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4MLk4t3Fx7z1s7t9; Mon, 5 Sep 2022 11:39:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4MLk4t05Frz1qqkD; Mon, 5 Sep 2022 11:39:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lHMEL9l8kLBN; Mon, 5 Sep 2022 11:39:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: q0QElra9SCPTdUCcavcY+/znve1AOv/XLEVPdXqEjUD3erHu+l/U5vdIAJDsDsjC Received: from hawking (unknown [81.95.8.244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Mon, 5 Sep 2022 11:39:41 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Gregory Heytings Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <87v8q242q2.fsf@gnus.org> <0b2303e3928a4abb2a7f@heytings.org> X-Yow: Impudent.. Yet possessing a certain ALUMINUM SILICATE overbite....Needs REDDY-WHIP!! Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 11:39:41 +0200 In-Reply-To: <0b2303e3928a4abb2a7f@heytings.org> (Gregory Heytings's message of "Mon, 05 Sep 2022 09:10:16 +0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, Lars Ingebrigtsen , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Sep 05 2022, Gregory Heytings wrote: > Sorry, I meant "eo" and "eo.utf8". eo.UTF-8 is the same as eo.utf8. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 07:30:42 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 11:30:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46595 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAJL-0005d0-1u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:30:42 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33206) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAJJ-0005MV-DM for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:30:37 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49428) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAJD-00015V-Pc; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:30:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=PecOD8bblQWDsaSrub4+ek747XydyzRnyBtddFj2Lz4=; b=mxDS0LN4DR16 BgDhfNOHjO1RmVzZN4bOOtMP+L6UADCKpz+dD/9r03cEgFpAFtmWShIll9ThtN+eyRZU/YkRYsaKU nVgKk+RMuFO3xkBBhnFZoCuvKpKVF3b7IvdO4ash3iw0gRjfxOvsOC68WxoZHbzY8S9df7LXw97Jw JD7ZQ2B4orQe3vA/9HA9dZ0ueOvMWfaorJ2dEBS/RF+1ZVE9nYx9kvDNQYZ2khCidsE3p79lMBwUy K8zG5XBZNuARnyHc4U6NJn9SEiKzfqQ9CW2FnyNmIqrUZfCcvT7t0QvBHGpyx9cFYRwfDtlLGYV9O sly27Qa8VJSp+69ZSt8zlg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2470 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAJ2-0001kr-8z; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:30:31 -0400 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 14:29:58 +0300 Message-Id: <83edwqkqix.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: <6fb0e08e80e292e6c7a0@heytings.org> (message from Gregory Heytings on Sun, 04 Sep 2022 23:35:37 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <6fb0e08e80e292e6c7a0@heytings.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 23:35:37 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: Jonathan Reeve , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> `("eo" "Esperanto" utf-8)' > > > > That's only correct for glibc systems, though, as I already explained. I > > found no authoritative place on the Internet which would mandate that > > the Esperanto locale should use or prefer UTF-8 as its encoding. > > > > I don't think it's possible to find a truly authoritative source of > information about an artificial language. One semi-authoritative source > is Bertilo Wennergren, who is (according to Wikipedia) a member of the > Esperanto Academy and "holds the post of director of the Academy's General > Dictionary section". He appears to be the expert on that matter (namely > computer encodings for Esperanto), and explains on his website that: > > Latino 3 is made for Esperanto and for the Galician, Maltese and Turkish > languages. However, few computer programs support Latin 3, and some bodies > have even directly discouraged the use of Latin 3. The Turks currently > prefer the character code Latin 5 (ISO 8859-9) . Esperantists also > currently prefer and should prefer Unicode instead of Latin 3. [1, > translation from Google] > > He also gives instructions on how to configure a GNU/Linux distribution > for Esperanto: > > To be able to use Esperanto well in Linux, it is necessary that the system > uses a Unicode locale. Fortunately, more or less all Linux distributions > currently use Unicode locales by default. To check which character code > your system's locale uses, type the following command: "locale charmap". > If the answer appears "UTF-8" (that is the most commonly used code > representation of Unicode), then everything about character code in your > locale is already in order. [2, translation from Google] If we were designing support for this locale today, we'd probably have used UTF-8 as its default encoding. But this is not the case: this locale with its data exists for many years, and I'd like to avoid changing the default encoding if a better solution exists. Especially since at this point it is not yet clear why this doesn't work on OP's system, given the fact that locale.alias should have told Emacs what encoding to use, before falling back on what we have in language-info-alist. See also my other message. > So it seems safer to assume that the coding system is UTF-8 when the > locale is "eo" (which IIUC is what the above suggested change does), and > to expect users who would not like that default to add > > (prefer-coding-system 'iso-latin-3) > > in their init file, than to assume ISO-8859-3 when the locale is "eo" > (which IIUC is what Emacs currently does), and to expect users who do not > like that default to add It is not clear to me yet that we need to change the current assumption, since on well-configured system the correct encoding should be stated in locale.alias, in which Emacs looks before it falls back to language-info-alist. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 07:40:58 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 11:40:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46604 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVATK-00069O-Cu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:40:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58580) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVATI-00069C-UX for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:40:57 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47270) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVATC-0002th-Sh; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:40:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=j2axGTXJ+Vqesnz7MPgVmNDWqtstUcLcCBApaC+nWGg=; b=OVUfufkAJ8Dq omnhDcvM09E45U3o87vH9AGACcCBP87T5bBk5FUiBZImHjJgJOIJZ2s6DpH6d7aBkHz59MZAYBddc 7k6HdcalZoh4yMpKy+fC7aNaFn6Q7OXBIClAZ/lYwyFe6+OmrG6PmYPtNLWDL2ZQMRNnbc15yXBMP GY6smHjCbrcGvZQRVK+PuTAYAgzkLDu4Oskzyc1YYFSPz0Y6XjQXG81+59AgUQTVcKXyiV5kZ2xP7 snEVA2vjzEZJS8UbNGfehvJXj9r6+fgpTV8qek7oj4M1YXpEBsrDlI4Fp4Gisq/1NYbtwylvu17Ka 6OvGqPZYeSO6V36dvI39LA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3108 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVATC-0007S0-Bs; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:40:50 -0400 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 14:40:28 +0300 Message-Id: <83bkrukq1f.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> (message from Gregory Heytings on Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:16:18 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:16:18 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, Eli Zaretskii , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Except that most other locales have "UTF-8" in their name when UTF-8 > > should be used, so the current logic selects the right encoding, without > > consulting (locale-info 'codeset). For example, with the locale > > "mt_MT", Emacs uses ISO-8859-3, and with the locale "mt_MT.UTF-8", Emacs > > uses UTF-8. > > > > (BTW, this also means that the OP could solve his problem by using > "eo.UTF-8" for his locale instead of only "eo".) That was suggested, but rejected, because the system in question (or maybe any GNU/Linux system?) doesn't have such a locale. But AFAIU locale.alias should have told Emacs which encoding is appropriate for "eo". Andreas asked the OP what does locale.alias say about that, but I saw no response yet. What does "grep ^eo /usr/share/X11/locale/locale.alias" say on your system? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 07:45:09 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 11:45:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46635 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAXN-0006H4-43 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:45:09 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47902) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAXL-0006Gr-U1 for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:45:08 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54614) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAXA-0003cO-D2; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:45:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=6+ZPZrGFLXIDroh3WbyIWcDj0cRQMHMzfAxEi8lJx5g=; b=AgJUmcQk8W5e njFtAu/DnTuRox2CwK7fcGn+piybrc2qywOmPqXgt3HpwxsZNXmEWilHk36svwZs0y7b19UtrKE6v kdbQHpuHYnUmKrTtd/ueBK1M0wFXWOcijqyR6gklJfKRag0QmOIciZlWVo2X3AZmFbL1aNH0K8GN+ /l5R2l3/auVftK83r6NrNc4kiVA6MgkLpXFD8oVQa2sFuR9Gg7xK47OK3j9Vg6H6D6NvHBYNYQTbT VLwNMO9xR2uEKQk38stbErlTm77VG2dDGNTgq0jbeHXNzZM/mOGJYnjx6EMCa/1vj6h6JjyuaJX89 EFsPz+LZvG5sFRgNzCdK5A==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3358 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAX8-0007uN-P1; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:44:55 -0400 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 14:44:33 +0300 Message-Id: <838rmykpum.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87v8q242q2.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Mon, 05 Sep 2022 10:58:29 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <87v8q242q2.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, gregory@heytings.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: Andreas Schwab , jonathan@jonreeve.com, Eli > Zaretskii , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 10:58:29 +0200 > > Gregory Heytings writes: > > > (BTW, this also means that the OP could solve his problem by using > > "eo.UTF-8" for his locale instead of only "eo".) > > That locale doesn't seem to exist on Debian systems, for instance: > > $ grep eo /etc/locale.gen > # eo UTF-8 > # eo_US.UTF-8 UTF-8 What does the below say on your Debian system? grep ^eo /usr/share/X11/locale/locale.alias From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 07:46:09 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 11:46:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46641 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAYL-0006J2-HE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:46:09 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:55740) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAYH-0006Ik-K3 for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:46:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1662378364; bh=3IV6VVpcJfWG/whvv5qGWUYctDB5GoBc6sOEAM9TMOQ=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=O3C4RAEGkdVUrl2MKIAZqVQv5sruj2crjnexCkRmj4ZUUOekxygujMFCINSb8SbZf kSHLaSh+0w48hyZKC4Q92dcuSwPcFqWd92zRVnysQDBd3Ihf9jtimhM4dbK9ipyNJI 17CpsG8cgiSKgKrrvfLNXtNBZMke1f58ugyhHMQmRHwrrwwWYcIxScbwQfXPpkmQaU 4MImBFesUaLhXFS+qSYlypkhh4gTgl9prYrMOVbSFb1TY2QxE1c82VB5kY+GMSG177 U7yIhHyyszO+p4w5sJg9VGLsYfMk8czTDmeWr/IlF1ngLZaLctnIvJXBHFBgV802az +QD1oiEj/VQvQ== Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 11:46:04 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Andreas Schwab Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0b2303e392fa7a866fe4@heytings.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <87v8q242q2.fsf@gnus.org> <0b2303e3928a4abb2a7f@heytings.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, Lars Ingebrigtsen , Eli Zaretskii , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> Sorry, I meant "eo" and "eo.utf8". > > eo.UTF-8 is the same as eo.utf8. > It's not completely the same, though: "eo.utf8" is a glibc-specific alias of "eo.UTF-8", "eo.UTF-8" is the standard name. So I take back what I said above, and the OP should indeed use "eo.UTF-8". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 08:00:16 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 12:00:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46664 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAm0-0006iN-Kb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:00:16 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:55764) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAly-0006iA-M1 for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:00:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1662379213; bh=FX+lphUDlYbL8l0BX2I9nO36shiaOZ4uaXZT2bBp7bo=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=BUgZ6d4CG5qKYAcBmRnmLwMpkOohZbgrLjOQRWt0ww//MmDqb2q6u12E1/cLPMyU3 HnEuBwtSAgN1jL3IsZAbOO77oTsBdW69V5YF7s4U+WqGfIZ/aFdYFES662ENMKgIGU FYPkY/AY8fAXBQWgga1shKxuX9jaXr8GsbZdgURQRX5cev7e5ynsO/kdrABa5qSmez QV+YwiTuH480O2pWjVrKiOpk5n6QIEe2VwxrXVsUFjZ26kBTvvVWaPKZVnCZ4fGqHm pKMDhtTTJ3dgwgjLUCEPPGqvpfOAT6E5+uBH/+qrnutkNaeQBDi7YAUB3Zv3x4PEgt l+RTNVSDspTRQ== Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 12:00:12 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: <83bkrukq1f.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <0b2303e392221b7deeaf@heytings.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <83bkrukq1f.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> (BTW, this also means that the OP could solve his problem by using >> "eo.UTF-8" for his locale instead of only "eo".) > > That was suggested, but rejected, because the system in question (or > maybe any GNU/Linux system?) doesn't have such a locale. > That was probably a misinterpretation of the OP. I'd bet that it would work, even though, as Lars observed, the exact string "eo.UTF-8" does not appear in /etc/locale.gen for example. > > But AFAIU locale.alias should have told Emacs which encoding is > appropriate for "eo". > If Emacs relies on locale.alias, Latin-3 will be chosen. The "eo" locale follows what other locales do, without ".UTF-8" the legacy encoding is used. E.g. "en_US" is Latin-1 here but "en_US.UTF-8" is UTF-8, and likewise "tr_TR" is Latin-9 but "tr_TR.UTF-8" is UTF-8. > > Andreas asked the OP what does locale.alias say about that, but I saw no > response yet. > > What does "grep ^eo /usr/share/X11/locale/locale.alias" say on your > system? > eo eo_XX.ISO8859-3 eo_XX eo_XX.ISO8859-3 eo: eo_XX.ISO8859-3 eo_XX: eo_XX.ISO8859-3 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 08:07:26 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 12:07:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46677 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAsw-0006tC-5k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:07:26 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:55790) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAsu-0006t4-Uz for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:07:25 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1662379643; bh=L3qCvHoRbAlWFhJ6mAJQowfkwQS8Ffny0YZMoOuJoec=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=IUW81t+vRT/OlDLPyIQMRLJeBFflx6YgGJSpvgrU6sY+SZiFvojUFzMDz1LeR6HxR kFdSEy2GXRhA1o429CVacp0Ic2o4AI7s1Izi6D5gOwXlQnMADjCUE3qqxABJHAqZdy 5w6zW+yPhgZk+n4grdg2i+pk9kx+vDKJ2ccpvIuRDBItyqOrg0G3AW05UEePchB1kj VeV44LTPOIcVrN74fMgbUVOF1Xq2G/GpA+hCqUedHTOOe6oTl3prgVBbMQqNJ+snP5 6NJNhVDXMu3ZOOSBvmtKPAA6P3v7rGME86vxt9ffnxDy8l968gMrrQLZUwNqZTSFOb k0eEWbRyenQCQ== Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 12:07:23 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: <83edwqkqix.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <0b2303e39221dde4f40f@heytings.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <6fb0e08e80e292e6c7a0@heytings.org> <83edwqkqix.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > > It is not clear to me yet that we need to change the current assumption, > since on well-configured system the correct encoding should be stated in > locale.alias, in which Emacs looks before it falls back to > language-info-alist. > I think expecting systems to be well-configured and to contain accurate information about that exotic locale is a bit too optimistic. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 08:24:54 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 12:24:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46710 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVB9p-0007LG-Lb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:24:54 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49368) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVB9j-0007Kw-KD for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:24:52 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:50232) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVB9b-00039N-Dc; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:24:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=BkG+7pjMDt82w7ZyZtBzc/RDSne3piTz9ZqjOz765BA=; b=NLTFyr+MVVU2 qOeQJb57sGJGMwhztOu0exGSewUuOl/F1ttQJCYIk4MVXQnpsfcMICxAZbrBywge76f3Ek/On3cYM TZbd5Khoyup1nBZyTHahPK31/zJk0uHSl6d8OcjK8n9xmVXa5ktLB8VCtfbrJtIcRtwfsck3DyX5L RCnEsh7WLzEmfPI7czA1TZbuTkx/KMU/UqdIZFME2hZIZ9cfzUnpAVDmY3+Hna0mSIkIPQU8CBOb7 m13kl6vuplmF+yje1qJfi0N32UQDT/XvEfb75jpfPtPZ2JTMc3Iu+kp0dJ82mrM7ATyPR/SXR0oHh laVaNHB9KCyiYrffAqM9rA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1811 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVB9a-0005PQ-Mi; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:24:39 -0400 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 15:24:17 +0300 Message-Id: <83zgfej9fy.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: <0b2303e392221b7deeaf@heytings.org> (message from Gregory Heytings on Mon, 05 Sep 2022 12:00:12 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <83bkrukq1f.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e392221b7deeaf@heytings.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 12:00:12 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: schwab@linux-m68k.org, jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > > > But AFAIU locale.alias should have told Emacs which encoding is > > appropriate for "eo". > > If Emacs relies on locale.alias, Latin-3 will be chosen. The "eo" locale > follows what other locales do, without ".UTF-8" the legacy encoding is > used. E.g. "en_US" is Latin-1 here but "en_US.UTF-8" is UTF-8, and > likewise "tr_TR" is Latin-9 but "tr_TR.UTF-8" is UTF-8. Emacs looks in locale.alias before it uses the fallback info in language-info-alist. > > Andreas asked the OP what does locale.alias say about that, but I saw no > > response yet. > > > > What does "grep ^eo /usr/share/X11/locale/locale.alias" say on your > > system? > > > > eo eo_XX.ISO8859-3 > eo_XX eo_XX.ISO8859-3 > eo: eo_XX.ISO8859-3 > eo_XX: eo_XX.ISO8859-3 If this is what locale.alias says, doesn't it mean that the system wants us to use Latin-3 by default for this locale? IOW, why does nl_langinfo return a value that is different from what this file says? Is that because locale.alias comes from X11, not from glibc? In any case, unless we change the code in mule-cmds.el, as long as locale.alias says the above, what we say in language-info-alist about this locale doesn't matter. At least that's my reading of the code in mule-cmds.el. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 08:25:43 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 12:25:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46716 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVBAd-0007Ms-7p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:25:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46008) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVBAc-0007Mg-76 for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:25:42 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54708) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVBAW-0003Th-Sb; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:25:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=xqDhhGLQrBC5YNroygBoZ++cMoaqAosjq+OIReE/a4Q=; b=qJ6qfa0Tc6/y xCX/sBR7PDelflzudAZKR2JP5zrWYKF72LDCMpBOtxecR/9j2CvBElQzi/SbI9wCQkzrnaVqir1K+ RJkiL9I7QRk0AlOOIdUH0WybNKZfwZvETTHXGKLqA7PRKgUos+zz4Mgqq6kCxScjTLoqahANFfQnj 2hLdpB9vZOFyoyjP2p3zNqqut+eIHRzZ8YH3hLsetPHXlLEjNVKiO5hK9fJHhLgyAzkp9U6UI8dW5 MY/PdnyhiBXGJVKVmyAlCO0ASKVtCSJqku6oveHmBD+HE9oXN7foXZ7Tu/y1nU+YqgpI7ZArKpJYv JHBczQR/1o7CVeVhLURAVg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1864 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVBAM-0005UJ-P8; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:25:32 -0400 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 15:25:06 +0300 Message-Id: <83y1uyj9el.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: <0b2303e39221dde4f40f@heytings.org> (message from Gregory Heytings on Mon, 05 Sep 2022 12:07:23 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <6fb0e08e80e292e6c7a0@heytings.org> <83edwqkqix.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e39221dde4f40f@heytings.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 12:07:23 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > > > It is not clear to me yet that we need to change the current assumption, > > since on well-configured system the correct encoding should be stated in > > locale.alias, in which Emacs looks before it falls back to > > language-info-alist. > > > > I think expecting systems to be well-configured and to contain accurate > information about that exotic locale is a bit too optimistic. What would you suggest that Emacs does instead? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 08:38:28 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 12:38:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46746 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVBMx-0007hg-SD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:38:28 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:55852) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVBMw-0007hY-1W for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:38:26 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1662381505; bh=wZXDzEvY/6H6bQXRIhMek7FJPQEjsPGfxCxXH9xUvBE=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=Gn9W4tD+mgXNrepTadsj3worZZwvMbnxwr1SkZJQY2f4KeSh1YjgWBp05bLA3UEvu 3jEcYANyyGZyX9Dxac3G1x0HJB3gCSmGS25Z6ENR13lQkOCLhH+sIOf0+9pj64/u4t Eg572pJZZr+9V+52q4TGreOPkkTgFY0aDDLyNS5ri2SyYe3yvdXIHyQ0O2zQX9UWL3 bDXeQu+T5O/7TjDG09LY+iAizqFU5Zg87OI0Ddas7nZ7mGDn0DYKcML2jDU3mP6Yc7 I5hhVcr3TzzzkMfCdfAdkFw59YQMA4kwVSuq4Lg+wj3HDxsE9wedEjZZdA67qtkop3 xsmPk8Iil89KA== Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 12:38:24 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: <83zgfej9fy.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <0b2303e39222004d306b@heytings.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <83bkrukq1f.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e392221b7deeaf@heytings.org> <83zgfej9fy.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> eo eo_XX.ISO8859-3 >> eo_XX eo_XX.ISO8859-3 >> eo: eo_XX.ISO8859-3 >> eo_XX: eo_XX.ISO8859-3 > > If this is what locale.alias says, doesn't it mean that the system wants > us to use Latin-3 by default for this locale? IOW, why does nl_langinfo > return a value that is different from what this file says? Is that > because locale.alias comes from X11, not from glibc? > I guess so, yes, given that glibc only knows of one encoding for the "eo" locale, namely "UTF-8". > > In any case, unless we change the code in mule-cmds.el, as long as > locale.alias says the above, what we say in language-info-alist about > this locale doesn't matter. At least that's my reading of the code in > mule-cmds.el. > You are correct. I should have tried the suggested patch before. It has no effect indeed, at least here. I think the conclusion is that the OP should either set his locale to "eo.UTF-8", or add (prefer-coding-system 'utf-8) in his init file. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 08:59:32 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 12:59:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46778 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVBhI-0008Go-Oy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:59:32 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:55886) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVBhC-0008Gc-Sj for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:59:26 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1662382761; bh=vfFOEVIvpQA1hpCMnMYOzy5T7dIdSSCefl4hXMkwfVE=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=pAbNuoW/H1E3zRqk5Bt67FX8odp6qjbbaVMKZnU1dyrjWtSATnvfu+6qCNT+SbqFa cBW2q2hwqGdDDR9dvWUQzsZ6TR6DBfCPPPk6xvsBEqG5VXUftpdCct5mcGLLDiSJC4 WJuJNVrwjx5amiB3eqQE8JmKlOfCdSI+zLu2C+CBoc0WTwUbzodUV7s3agBxAj8ypC vLfQQKI3Ne8P2GZgVpyRNe1LKwW2OelwbltIV7XbWcFTMsC7WQWENDW2MJuLMWpCp7 lvBkwbLQKXsUfH19fO+4lk+fvw1kObs3F5XkWBxSBzXRhWvFlohYlRvlJ9Y89DPU4P nISkA3/biRK8g== Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 12:59:21 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: <83y1uyj9el.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <0b2303e39214d25ba3d3@heytings.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <6fb0e08e80e292e6c7a0@heytings.org> <83edwqkqix.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e39221dde4f40f@heytings.org> <83y1uyj9el.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> I think expecting systems to be well-configured and to contain accurate >> information about that exotic locale is a bit too optimistic. > > What would you suggest that Emacs does instead? > I don't know, because anything that it could do would be backward incompatible. What is clear is that, on reasonably modern systems, legacy locales are not used anymore, and their use is discouraged (e.g. the Debian installer does not present you with any legacy encoding, they remain available but to activate them you need to edit the /etc/locale.gen file manually). So perhaps Emacs could always assume UTF-8, and use another encoding only when there are good reasons to do so (e.g. when opening a file with a legacy encoding). The presence of the equivalence eo / Latin-3 in locale.alias is IMO not a good enough reason. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 09:04:48 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 13:04:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46783 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVBmO-0008Qr-6n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 09:04:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45078) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVBmI-0008Qb-Qi for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 09:04:42 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:43792) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVBmB-0002tV-Gz; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 09:04:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=HR8AfCgUH3qPqOKOjVhIdvb1uEGbN6ADw8I9Ww56tTU=; b=dtzsVp9RkglY hYPMjn5YP95tTSEV4QIHTM773nzoC9htNLAxbQ25w54RlpsdQHuTu4e1r/+Panjdv1eXygGtuJkqe CXkl9MthP4SIw0nJxA6GPrY4ABUI/5CITd8hYLO6aP1XMJPlVl2uOhIhwqzPHSqZZHT/0CLvW2HeK U6HNApxEwPgBkP7UGIqfKBKnrNW+6fI3nh1wVKEbLnlH0lHrhCE/JE6Hh05SW/bLGDWUxMseZcOWJ ykBcKs4xybzwGw75HWebij1Xo+e6ajTkXvEqTpTABwLYAJ0MoQsnCmC4Emyrwwv6vx3VRfLPWwHSW CzGJAG5C+FSyK85UKxDgfw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4259 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVBmA-0007aj-Tx; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 09:04:31 -0400 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 16:04:09 +0300 Message-Id: <83tu5mj7li.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: <0b2303e39222004d306b@heytings.org> (message from Gregory Heytings on Mon, 05 Sep 2022 12:38:24 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <83bkrukq1f.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e392221b7deeaf@heytings.org> <83zgfej9fy.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e39222004d306b@heytings.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 12:38:24 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: schwab@linux-m68k.org, jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> eo eo_XX.ISO8859-3 > >> eo_XX eo_XX.ISO8859-3 > >> eo: eo_XX.ISO8859-3 > >> eo_XX: eo_XX.ISO8859-3 > > > > If this is what locale.alias says, doesn't it mean that the system wants > > us to use Latin-3 by default for this locale? IOW, why does nl_langinfo > > return a value that is different from what this file says? Is that > > because locale.alias comes from X11, not from glibc? > > I guess so, yes, given that glibc only knows of one encoding for the "eo" > locale, namely "UTF-8". There's also /usr/share/locale/locale.alias, but on GNU/Linux system to which I have access it doesn't have any information for the eo or Esperanto locales. > > In any case, unless we change the code in mule-cmds.el, as long as > > locale.alias says the above, what we say in language-info-alist about > > this locale doesn't matter. At least that's my reading of the code in > > mule-cmds.el. > > You are correct. I should have tried the suggested patch before. It has > no effect indeed, at least here. You mean, the patch I proposed in https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=57531#64? For that to work, we need to make 'locale-info' pseudo-encoding override what locale.alias file says, I presume. > I think the conclusion is that the OP should either set his locale to > "eo.UTF-8", or add (prefer-coding-system 'utf-8) in his init file. That was suggested, yes. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 09:11:45 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 13:11:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46810 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVBt7-0000Bf-7M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 09:11:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58858) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVBsz-0000At-E8 for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 09:11:37 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:43530) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVBst-0004He-1e; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 09:11:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=jKb88bXBZd3hqm6FUMH8lWmBLY++ck3eZGFrSVQJkss=; b=lMuvB+eUwFqB rnvpPj7k9l0HcsFpVQdtuncYvhn4UCdovdkErYXBMGHjRhJoIWzeojiuqQ8NXSbocPQKpcfGkzECn 9amITyMBYckTdRNMPwfDHhDJybelgPkFx2eNwXgu4FPrUcnu6v5J4+IqKU1bc58NIQp1l9fmVd2ZH JjWZwz+C6yu2Nm+U2oDatvmLN20YBGJ3LPqbwDl4tLVehL2znD0YADT3ISvxtuqD3hBktbuqJXdfD yAoQMuQKBy24emM6GD4nk3FT4hNDr4ZJjR/9wGga7ikMswghdM+PaQ4ZM6jqc7bFroyU08IYPPMHc 23GupGAmVX3xT4cMGZKs9g==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4683 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oVBss-0002YM-Bc; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 09:11:26 -0400 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 16:11:05 +0300 Message-Id: <83sfl6j79y.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: <0b2303e39214d25ba3d3@heytings.org> (message from Gregory Heytings on Mon, 05 Sep 2022 12:59:21 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <6fb0e08e80e292e6c7a0@heytings.org> <83edwqkqix.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e39221dde4f40f@heytings.org> <83y1uyj9el.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e39214d25ba3d3@heytings.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 12:59:21 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> I think expecting systems to be well-configured and to contain accurate > >> information about that exotic locale is a bit too optimistic. > > > > What would you suggest that Emacs does instead? > > I don't know, because anything that it could do would be backward > incompatible. The only change I could think of that is almost backward-compatible (except for this single locale) is the one I posted, if we modify it to also make the 'lang-info' pseudo-encoding override the locale.alias file. > What is clear is that, on reasonably modern systems, legacy > locales are not used anymore, and their use is discouraged (e.g. the > Debian installer does not present you with any legacy encoding, they > remain available but to activate them you need to edit the /etc/locale.gen > file manually). So perhaps Emacs could always assume UTF-8, and use > another encoding only when there are good reasons to do so (e.g. when > opening a file with a legacy encoding). The presence of the equivalence > eo / Latin-3 in locale.alias is IMO not a good enough reason. I have no idea what this kind of change could do. Maybe nothing, maybe breakage across the board. Keep in mind that the default encoding is used for stuff other than decoding text in files Emacs visits, and also for some important tasks during startup. I also think our encoding detection doesn't always succeed to discern between UTF-8 and single-byte Latin-N encodings. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 09:26:41 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 13:26:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46835 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVC7Z-0002id-Uc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 09:26:41 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:55942) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVC7U-0002iP-E1 for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 09:26:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1662384391; bh=b1ln27ol8Zgxz6Lu8CMVoCRVEiV/j5nOdWKXbzFh8C8=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=fEIQlgjjRsRgkH2Ys4NSKT86tEV1tvdRgcUjvkYmqmRuQyDFwiCt4TpCsEvx6f/Pl vyWbkxy7N25i+gIKHI8FWa0fa78gLCmY1haOU/Q5/J0FwS7Jd6tZWm2iKwNWh/YCqW g3XFBnEApcNQtHuk3koffVrBjsnfdU2l1XLd09Av7kB/IY2oofO8ITRBFvvPBYq6RZ CWIH6XelUSctQNjmOPHlP5cunmxoP8wK+CtFINNMeE0qlq4QVPz07m+vu8jIU//dKv Lx4HIcd3iGbM10jNIuG42ax5SHfvMALpk3VIBZSaYaNXaFMobunMv1Z3zs5mkslA7C /YpeSBoW2Uo1w== Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 13:26:30 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: <83tu5mj7li.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <0b2303e392f0617fdc8d@heytings.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <83bkrukq1f.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e392221b7deeaf@heytings.org> <83zgfej9fy.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e39222004d306b@heytings.org> <83tu5mj7li.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>> Is that because locale.alias comes from X11, not from glibc? >> >> I guess so, yes, given that glibc only knows of one encoding for the >> "eo" locale, namely "UTF-8". > > There's also /usr/share/locale/locale.alias, but on GNU/Linux system to > which I have access it doesn't have any information for the eo or > Esperanto locales. > That file is obsolete: "This file is obsolete and is kept around for the time being for backward compatibility. Nobody should rely on the names defined here." Neither that file nor the X11 one is used by glibc. >> I should have tried the suggested patch before. It has no effect >> indeed, at least here. > > You mean, the patch I proposed in > https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=57531#64? > I meant both the one that the OP suggested and the one that you suggested. > > For that to work, we need to make 'locale-info' pseudo-encoding override > what locale.alias file says, I presume. > Indeed, given that ATM locale-language-names is only consulted when locale.alias says nothing (IIUC). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 09:33:24 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 13:33:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46839 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVCE4-0002sF-5Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 09:33:24 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:55956) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVCDy-0002s2-NW for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 09:33:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1662384793; bh=tY2xLs6huSMNm60Lk2mX88fHdYY1aH+oxYWpEj8tZjs=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=rXPdc6a7BMamKSK0JVbmPLSg5IMGU+Apsnr1MtIAXRnGKiY6llgnZR879rZIHkw21 nBNI2gGRPMDE2a8u4HVs2jpl6toorSynLM1Syl2aoHoKlacDPW2torZWWn5XY6q3t1 UDsZnlPkU2dOBcEzf6D0JQnnAsRpEkni75EjNLfnMZUNZsYMDflqJtBb8dJ1arycNW KCB1zUHnNsv3jzZ0tp2hca+M8ROcgI6VwBJNsGSd0CAxOJQFnrNNUQE5RoMrl2j3x5 8ZS9NZELqi09QBwcfOW9Ew3V4JM48Ghul2cO9J3mZ9z3MR0aLfldvVr+YH5Dd2ihTg dRth95XcXGMyw== Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 13:33:12 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: <83sfl6j79y.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <0b2303e39222951afb20@heytings.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <6fb0e08e80e292e6c7a0@heytings.org> <83edwqkqix.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e39221dde4f40f@heytings.org> <83y1uyj9el.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e39214d25ba3d3@heytings.org> <83sfl6j79y.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="VFJaXJT1Il" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --VFJaXJT1Il Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>> What would you suggest that Emacs does instead? >> >> I don't know, because anything that it could do would be backward=20 >> incompatible. > > The only change I could think of that is almost backward-compatible=20 > (except for this single locale) is the one I posted, if we modify it to= =20 > also make the 'lang-info' pseudo-encoding override the locale.alias=20 > file. > Agreed, yes. >> What is clear is that, on reasonably modern systems, legacy locales are= =20 >> not used anymore, and their use is discouraged (e.g. the Debian=20 >> installer does not present you with any legacy encoding, they remain=20 >> available but to activate them you need to edit the /etc/locale.gen=20 >> file manually). So perhaps Emacs could always assume UTF-8, and use=20 >> another encoding only when there are good reasons to do so (e.g. when=20 >> opening a file with a legacy encoding). The presence of the=20 >> equivalence eo / Latin-3 in locale.alias is IMO not a good enough=20 >> reason. > > I have no idea what this kind of change could do. > I have no idea either, I was thinking aloud. But what is clear (at least= =20 to me) is that this change is inevitable at some point. UTF-8 has been=20 the default encoding almost everywhere for two decades or so, and that's=20 unlikely to change in the forseeable future. In that world we cannot=20 continue forever to let Emacs choose another encoding based on some=20 heuristics, because "nobody" expects that anymore. Unless there's a good= =20 reason to do so, of course. > > Maybe nothing, maybe breakage across the board. Keep in mind that the=20 > default encoding is used for stuff other than decoding text in files=20 > Emacs visits, and also for some important tasks during startup. > > I also think our encoding detection doesn't always succeed to discern=20 > between UTF-8 and single-byte Latin-N encodings. > I keep all that in mind, yes =F0=9F=98=83 --VFJaXJT1Il-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 10:15:39 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 14:15:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48579 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVCt1-0006Vs-CT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 10:15:39 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:40750) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVCsz-0006Vd-Bj for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 10:15:37 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=1Kmm0AmiKaVnvS2ruKD/QWYT1QC6/7WJCTSc8+adVpM=; b=gC1SRVFWZ/MFWwEJVv0jePkDRr uwIy265wmxPgc9Pi7I1NiIiFKuRohiSdvfeYgXuQrAlCkq/gO6F5fOhRR/ZBhDkMxFAaXFShwLzVj jyAKQUY7tbMW2INH6BSROWhjFGbryuArIvl4Uia4RooOeLN1I+n8y8OI2l/xbJobg3IE=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oVCso-0002Hx-Dm; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 16:15:28 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: <838rmykpum.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 05 Sep 2022 14:44:33 +0300") References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <87v8q242q2.fsf@gnus.org> <838rmykpum.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAGFBMVEV9fmOGhYlNTUx2 dhCCgRWAfhOvx8b///8EnAsbAAAAAWJLR0QHFmGI6wAAAAd0SU1FB+YJBQ4PEki4gPEAAAGsSURB VDjLdZJbkuMgDEUFU9XfwArgUvnvQbCBuLKBxux/KyORdAd73DeOLesg9MBkvDfOeSJ5+pfUICIn f0PfcvNuPM0lbl4Hkf9FJ2CugfPJmUvgUkhnEGRpoPg/sEnhNSDnL4GBDMBegATyFJJbgCN4GyPB 2JDgfZLCBQQbIqyFNYgKjOwJI8BCZRGD3G2SLAEhkXn6nwyEiBiD/Cj++KMToMtSEJPE8Q0wwXwo sO+9NMcE0QqQamf4M0pDnKYjyEHOvFN/vdcKgKo5DBcx+RMxi5G5yHiYPmFj+xLQFELBV/xwmQpY lDtzUYPnq6SixvvG3Iaodx5D/bIK1LDd1N9H51XEKFm8U4t/UJVCtvryt5+wRnwH7vmhCVYJkALv eJTGJ6A9F9Ryk4i2gj9zFBXo7RBEPSNDr8oNC5IGc9aJ4MYV2wr2nFGkhMZ1rYC4yqTKXtB6le0W 0HYBTWZZ8glIx5v0v8lWBzAnqifSdpzB4L4h93KsSme+j54fteQDGC/1VnK/AkNa3d7jojEW0uex vpIvQOu7Alpee4N3Ejl5Hoc+nh9P4/Vz+AcsorMXoWMPvwAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAy Mi0wOS0wNVQxNDoxNToxOCswMDowMAOCPiQAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDktMDVU MTQ6MTU6MTgrMDA6MDBy34aYAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Joni Mitchell's _The Hissing Of Summer Lawns_: "The Jungle Line" Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 16:15:25 +0200 Message-ID: <871qsp52ma.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > What does the below say on your Debian system? > > grep ^eo /usr/share/X11/locale/locale.alias $ grep ^eo /usr/share/X11/locale/locale.alias eo eo_XX.ISO8859-3 eo_XX eo_XX.ISO8859-3 eo: eo_XX.ISO8859-3 eo_XX: eo_XX.ISO8859-3 Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, gregory@heytings.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > What does the below say on your Debian system? > > grep ^eo /usr/share/X11/locale/locale.alias $ grep ^eo /usr/share/X11/locale/locale.alias eo eo_XX.ISO8859-3 eo_XX eo_XX.ISO8859-3 eo: eo_XX.ISO8859-3 eo_XX: eo_XX.ISO8859-3 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 12:57:02 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 16:57:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48715 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVFOy-0004Kp-0B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 12:57:02 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.10]:58234) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVFOw-0004Ke-Fu for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 12:56:47 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4MLvn91zffz1s7tm; Mon, 5 Sep 2022 18:56:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4MLvn86042z1qqkD; Mon, 5 Sep 2022 18:56:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ExapapCK9wvE; Mon, 5 Sep 2022 18:56:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: 8htV5md52+g7rLMVdRYqQmDAjSFA12XQFwtNnm9ol7Vbgb7D0N3ppazsNfhwWNYM Received: from igel.home (ppp-46-244-186-243.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.186.243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Mon, 5 Sep 2022 18:56:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 80E3F2C3A52; Mon, 5 Sep 2022 18:56:43 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <83bkrukq1f.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e392221b7deeaf@heytings.org> <83zgfej9fy.fsf@gnu.org> X-Yow: Let's go to CHURCH! Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 18:56:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83zgfej9fy.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 05 Sep 2022 15:24:17 +0300") Message-ID: <87pmg94v5g.fsf@igel.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, Gregory Heytings , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) On Sep 05 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Is that because locale.alias comes from X11 Nothing else uses that file. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 13:50:18 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 17:50:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48766 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVGEk-0005gf-4j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 13:50:18 -0400 Received: from mail-4018.proton.ch ([185.70.40.18]:61527) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVGEh-0005gJ-TS for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 13:50:16 -0400 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 17:50:01 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jonreeve.com; s=protonmail3; t=1662400208; x=1662659408; bh=nGugefdeyFVwY+w7SksOPB9HVj204frdczUXl3RbOyA=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To: References:Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To: Feedback-ID:Message-ID; b=hTyGalbp5j96gb23qP6y9gPZiuSdGZg9S7vli0l0cK6M5AcVdifQnPMBxAbS36V2Q Zu3sywB9anG8A5fRYh/538a3txFi9TFLxU/6DlFvND95Ql0sNyywUszQVYE9UqtfIX BYGb/a9KTqyPFkaiXzxOkyO29Ne/xgoUwNscwXGH4LzzxBS1dYvgPH1fbaXHAmgv9X WFIJu6q31J8cHVqehQAASl1e8NVSLxZ+EYBm/pVwJfO1KVRlUl7ASlyIw/IVxy1ha5 Ib03tXwHUQ0MUrD4XhFuFy5k4mAUBsn4hukSZliP3iHrrQ7bECIlNepTwf941KRwMs NmUkdfPmKZvCw== To: Andreas Schwab From: Jonathan Reeve Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" Message-ID: <87y1uxd83r.fsf@jonreeve.com> In-Reply-To: <87pmg94v5g.fsf@igel.home> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <83bkrukq1f.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e392221b7deeaf@heytings.org> <83zgfej9fy.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmg94v5g.fsf@igel.home> Feedback-ID: 35010347:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org, Gregory Heytings X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Jonathan Reeve Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) In my case, on NixOS, the system only supports glibc locales. [The nix conf= iguration option for locales] says this: List of locales that the system should support. The value =E2=80= =9Call=E2=80=9D means that all locales supported by Glibc will be installed= . A full list of supported locales can be found at . And if you try to do it anyway, for instance, with this configuration: =E2=94=8C=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80 =E2=94=82 i18n =3D { =E2=94=82 defaultLocale =3D "eo.UTF-8"; =E2=94=82 supportedLocales =3D [ "eo.UTF-8/UTF-8" "eo/UTF-8" "en_US.UTF= -8/UTF-8" ]; =E2=94=82 }; =E2=94=94=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80 you=E2=80=99ll end up getting an error like this: Error: unsupported locales detected: eo.UTF-8/UTF-8 \ You should choose from the list above the error. The =E2=80=9Clist above the error=E2=80=9D is the same list from [the full = list of supported locales], and doesn=E2=80=99t include `eo.UTF-8' or `eo.u= tf-8'. So on my system, at least, there is effectively no separate `eo.UTF-8' loca= le. Nor would you need one, since the `eo' locale is UTF-8. FWIW, my system doesn=E2=80=99t have the obsolete X11 locale.alias file, an= d I don=E2=80=99t use X11. But if there=E2=80=99s one thing I can ascertain, just from using my system= , is that it works just as expected everywhere (terminals, other programs),= and characters are displayed fine everywhere (e.g., in UTF-8, as they shou= ld be) /except in emacs/. The emacs terminal, especially, displays characte= rs incorrectly. Here=E2=80=99s the output of `locale charmap': =E2=94=8C=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80 =E2=94=82 $ LANG=3Deo locale charmap =E2=94=82 UTF-8 =E2=94=94=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80 So it seems to me transparently clear that the encoding for the `eo' locale= is UTF-8, and yet somehow emacs has its own, separate opinions, which don= =E2=80=99t seem to be based on fact. Changing the default emacs encoding won=E2=80=99t break backwards compatibi= lity so much as it will fix a long-standing mistake. =E2=80=9CAndreas Schwab=E2=80=9D writes: > On Sep 05 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> Is that because locale.alias comes from X11 > > Nothing else uses that file. [The nix configuration option for locales] [the full list of supported locales] From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 14:20:34 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 18:20:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48806 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVGhx-0006Rs-W1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 14:20:33 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:56256) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVGht-0006Ra-C5 for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 14:20:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1662402024; bh=qdKmfBd9f1usifNTIVNNR6jIF9ynrC0jBSHkSaKQtik=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=VTY8HyJO/qQXGRhti8fOwgCwAGl4CDyXqn70d0CfaVW8Hh5QJhHU1KYiJhKNaE5Cz BFNPsT8VckxIwzZ5HDrfjPi+UBsN2h6L5TA7tSwHv8+R5cJ1Pd2+FJjTZPEcNImOPM 0hXVdzrNBSeAH+IYXkTGiFb9XhxDqlycZ0jNSXnipPsrowwXUzXhgjXfgBU1kC0Sb7 jFGGLAJvObZ0vikNRVQZjDTG2+Hfz8u2mgMQ42IK2mYyukSCCPuIRLvTwWS09/O7EN 1pjTKNqJeRfFsCDgf2rd/9x01Fo1FEh+qWGruR5woJ82WbOI7Bekcq1fNWBg8fxuBE 6lJd/Pb3smGUg== Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 18:20:23 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Jonathan Reeve Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: <87y1uxd83r.fsf@jonreeve.com> Message-ID: <0b2303e3927b42b437ad@heytings.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <83bkrukq1f.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e392221b7deeaf@heytings.org> <83zgfej9fy.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmg94v5g.fsf@igel.home> <87y1uxd83r.fsf@jonreeve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="T3pSQ2vMCa" Content-ID: <0b2303e3920ab6b8fcb6@heytings.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Andreas Schwab , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --T3pSQ2vMCa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-ID: <0b2303e39288d118d294@heytings.org> > > Error: unsupported locales detected: > eo.UTF-8/UTF-8 \ > You should choose from the list above the error. > Well, "eo.UTF-8/UTF-8" is indeed not a supported locale. Why did you=20 include it in your configuration? "eo.UTF-8" (without a "/UTF-8") is=20 definitely supported by glibc. What do you get if you configure it like=20 this: i18n =3D { defaultLocale =3D "eo.UTF-8"; }; ? > > FWIW, my system doesn=E2=80=99t have the obsolete X11 locale.alias file, = and I=20 > don=E2=80=99t use X11. > Then I guess Emacs doesn't use it, which is why your suggested fix worked= =20 on NixOS but wouldn't work on a Debian-based system. > > So it seems to me transparently clear that the encoding for the `eo'=20 > locale is UTF-8, and yet somehow emacs has its own, separate opinions,=20 > which don=E2=80=99t seem to be based on fact. > The story is a bit more complex than that, as you may have seen in the=20 previous messages in this thread. --T3pSQ2vMCa-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 18:41:33 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 22:41:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49117 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVKmb-000575-4M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 18:41:33 -0400 Received: from mail-4317.proton.ch ([185.70.43.17]:36199) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVKmZ-00056t-VY for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 18:41:32 -0400 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 22:41:15 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jonreeve.com; s=protonmail3; t=1662417684; x=1662676884; bh=XvloSyJSnDHZ01YNhVdMxyeM/mvf49JCHv+9p1YQX6w=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To: References:Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To: Feedback-ID:Message-ID; b=ogYtbjAJdmXmryotlEIUY8dzQwYtI8sZROvYmnHWBet3Y8DboBwApvpg35T2iwQ6n iNfAZOjBgjP/opITkzIMVa1FP9pXOPghRlk+xoOKqntiRfXFpnmL2TixPw9JBl819x PA83ZvvgBsLbo9EUyE2z6XlHFggMY5I6kMRq0rWTlTAzFcS+XtmNwblNNEJgrG3vw9 9NMiKxQoGwrA99de7nPFE6ipw9AIorbVZpWonp4y79opp2mseLjNQN4wMDk1zfI+9k mXcsikFL3e9dCHrD6gFk0hx+MPepcUzHeKAIDW6QqgNyBkfy6FPjtGbb0UIJC3N35T wsanNArip61Rg== To: Gregory Heytings From: Jonathan Reeve Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" Message-ID: <87v8q1cum4.fsf@jonreeve.com> In-Reply-To: <0b2303e3927b42b437ad@heytings.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <83bkrukq1f.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e392221b7deeaf@heytings.org> <83zgfej9fy.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmg94v5g.fsf@igel.home> <87y1uxd83r.fsf@jonreeve.com> <0b2303e3927b42b437ad@heytings.org> Feedback-ID: 35010347:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Andreas Schwab , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Jonathan Reeve Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) =E2=80=9CGregory Heytings=E2=80=9D writes: > Well, =E2=80=9Ceo.UTF-8/UTF-8=E2=80=9D is indeed not a supported locale. = Why did you > include it in your configuration? =E2=80=9Ceo.UTF-8=E2=80=9D (without a = =E2=80=9C/UTF-8=E2=80=9D) is > definitely supported by glibc. What do you get if you configure it like > this: > > i18n =3D { defaultLocale =3D =E2=80=9Ceo.UTF-8=E2=80=9D; }; > > ? Well, this is getting into the weeds a bit about NixOS, and isn=E2=80=99t r= eally relevant here, but just to humor you, configuring it like that result= s in the same error. Look at [the documentation for supportedLocales] and [= the documentation on defaultLocale], in particular their examples. = =E2=80=9Ceo.UTF-8/UTF-8=E2=80=9D is the way they want you to write that in = `supportedLocales'. You can also [check out the way it=E2=80=99s implemente= d], which involves normalizing those locale strings such that they match th= e ones provided by glibc. > >> >> FWIW, my system doesn=E2=80=99t have the obsolete X11 locale.alias file,= and I >> don=E2=80=99t use X11. >> > > Then I guess Emacs doesn=E2=80=99t use it, which is why your suggested fi= x worked > on NixOS but wouldn=E2=80=99t work on a Debian-based system. > It=E2=80=99s an obsolete file, as has been pointed out upthread, so it= =E2=80=99s not in use at all, period. And whether or not you use X11 has no= thing to do with whether or not you use Debian. The fix I=E2=80=99m suggest= ing would work equally as well on Debian as NixOS, or any Linux-based syste= m, since they use the same system for locales. But don=E2=80=99t take my wo= rd for it. Try it yourself. >> >> So it seems to me transparently clear that the encoding for the `eo= =E2=80=99 >> locale is UTF-8, and yet somehow emacs has its own, separate opinions, >> which don=E2=80=99t seem to be based on fact. >> > > The story is a bit more complex than that, as you may have seen in the > previous messages in this thread. If there=E2=80=99s a reason that Emacs needs to maintain its own locale/cha= rset mapping, separate and different from that of the system, I=E2=80=99m a= ll ears. But to me it looks unnecessary and causes errors, like the one I= =E2=80=99m trying to report here. [the documentation for supportedLocales] [the documentation on defaultLocale] [check out the way it=E2=80=99s implemented] From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 19:14:21 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 23:14:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49129 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVLIL-0005v4-Io for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 19:14:21 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:56640) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVLIJ-0005uu-0p for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 19:14:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1662419657; bh=EQGoiE8w9ZKAxMZCU+9bkU4k1zlxeUy0/xbUf/d3L14=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=Ds0cUGbm8FbUevSRpuSQWjgx+zHDSIx5J+A5b+/W5+vaWhPKLQDx8P697lFQ93t2z yugy6f6st/em7QF0GeUPaO3NI5YOySSR4xMBgbIVvVZ/ozsQdnkIz7RwyStPruSHa6 k+MPtoxFdiB29czcTLsuGy5z0pwZuIKdyuZmTmv/N4AzLd/eG3nM7eiVqfvvmbvmjg Lys2xKw08uxSuHcvNg05X/5JCH/DsBOtwwHfY+XMsrdgMlVRfvnDITAweaAeTMx/Md qlK+bL/dYRhbuHec2Xm+89LsL4yzqzhmkf7LZjgQZ6KxwoUjfLH4Dk+OdSscRs7GWy 2OouSmTu11aKA== Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 23:14:17 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Jonathan Reeve Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: <87v8q1cum4.fsf@jonreeve.com> Message-ID: <0b2303e392194ab89b83@heytings.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <83bkrukq1f.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e392221b7deeaf@heytings.org> <83zgfej9fy.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmg94v5g.fsf@igel.home> <87y1uxd83r.fsf@jonreeve.com> <0b2303e3927b42b437ad@heytings.org> <87v8q1cum4.fsf@jonreeve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Ph2FKfXGXu" Content-ID: <0b2303e3921a75b51f82@heytings.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Andreas Schwab , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --Ph2FKfXGXu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-ID: <0b2303e3928dd1975cb3@heytings.org> > > Well, this is getting into the weeds a bit about NixOS, and isn=E2=80=99t= really=20 > relevant here, but just to humor you, configuring it like that results=20 > in the same error. Look at [the documentation for supportedLocales] and= =20 > [the documentation on defaultLocale], in particular their examples.=20 > =E2=80=9Ceo.UTF-8/UTF-8=E2=80=9D is the way they want you to write that i= n=20 > `supportedLocales'. You can also [check out the way it=E2=80=99s implemen= ted],=20 > which involves normalizing those locale strings such that they match the= =20 > ones provided by glibc. > Then it sounds like it's a NixOS bug. As I said, eo.UTF-8 is definitely a= =20 valid locale, and is supported by glibc, so there is no reason that NixOS= =20 should reject it just because it's not present in some text file. You can= =20 try it: #include #include #define CHECK(L) if (!setlocale (LC_ALL, L)) printf ("invalid locale %s\n",= L); int main () { CHECK ("eo"); CHECK ("eo.UTF-8"); } >> Then I guess Emacs doesn=E2=80=99t use it, which is why your suggested f= ix=20 >> worked on NixOS but wouldn=E2=80=99t work on a Debian-based system. > > It=E2=80=99s an obsolete file, as has been pointed out upthread, so it=E2= =80=99s not in=20 > use at all, period. And whether or not you use X11 has nothing to do=20 > with whether or not you use Debian. The fix I=E2=80=99m suggesting would = work=20 > equally as well on Debian as NixOS, or any Linux-based system, since=20 > they use the same system for locales. But don=E2=80=99t take my word for = it. Try=20 > it yourself. > No, it's another one that is obsolete: /usr/share/locale/locale.alias is=20 obsolete, /usr/share/X11/locale/locale.alias is not, it has last been=20 updated on February 2nd. It is used at least by libx11 and by Emacs. And no, the fix you suggested does not work on Debian. I tried it myself,= =20 it has no effect whatsoever. When /usr/share/X11/locale/locale.alias is=20 present, the information it contains takes precedence over those in=20 locale-language-names. --Ph2FKfXGXu-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 19:21:24 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 23:21:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49133 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVLPA-000664-H9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 19:21:24 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:56650) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVLP8-00065v-Hw for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 19:21:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1662420081; bh=IdxYoF4B4aITxAUcAUHc7WGBD3sSe7KP0jkmz/G8NeM=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=XvzwBta6puIUT309bpC+1jpjMzojS8rX4VOtlenZnIZOWSCSPwbrzqnF1xD0TnEiz g864ICiOOrnPoaKNOUwYQR2dI5Sntm09YW4S8V8x5r7Yus6aSZo2wOgKCX6mQMhJXf 7XvekZSr/3RyU8K7Rohw8UMpb+IQL6g6N4bLNbSqbQg6YUCUdbI8rl9suMTpTdz/KX GpB9uvMuL5plWbsvlw28DEx0SgQSlEftwuD3RKy0q+dEUOeEvUkATc7SmAkKJynzm4 USOeLhDaOiR7wZu4yIix0KAIdZPtDcxgWtk8hSHO7VP+gmHV0pn5Qv5+M5xvHV8v2A pmi7qE3/xbKBQ== Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 23:21:21 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Jonathan Reeve Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: <57ffb073-c4ea-da56-18c0-661b9d8ab929@heytings.org> Message-ID: <0b2303e3927fd4e71116@heytings.org> References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <83bkrukq1f.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e392221b7deeaf@heytings.org> <83zgfej9fy.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmg94v5g.fsf@igel.home> <87y1uxd83r.fsf@jonreeve.com> <0b2303e3927b42b437ad@heytings.org> <87v8q1cum4.fsf@jonreeve.com> <57ffb073-c4ea-da56-18c0-661b9d8ab929@heytings.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Andreas Schwab , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > > You can try it: > > #include > #include > #define CHECK(L) if (!setlocale (LC_ALL, L)) printf ("invalid locale %s\n", L); > int main () > { > CHECK ("eo"); > CHECK ("eo.UTF-8"); > } > You can also just type "locale -a", you will see two lines starting with "eo": eo eo.utf8 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 04 07:44:22 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Oct 2022 11:44:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52744 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ofgLW-0001Ju-1x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 07:44:22 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:45186) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ofgLT-0001Je-Q9 for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 07:44:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=KVtJggeuODksaVdbnf+++wcvo2wn/aP7iXNkuhUENts=; b=oE7J3CQrcSn0M8w+jKvoK/ZKMc QDZ5D6EaC9zrXHvDXbA/4Kw1zoU+YM34QLYu3sJDNFDZWIqaHbLtqmLISUqXJWEkTEVFMMsBkKF7K cErN9sU5TPr/UlkUVAzTXWEsl02JWzZbTj4YUr3+Oq6csIwYwn2IISmLKYvSXKcvVDFE=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=downe) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ofgLK-0003PZ-Jh; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 13:44:12 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: <83r10rlf1l.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 04 Sep 2022 11:28:06 +0300") References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83tu5nlgyy.fsf@gnu.org> <83r10rlf1l.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: Prince's _Around The World In A Day_: "Temptation" Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2022 13:44:10 +0200 Message-ID: <877d1fak51.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Something like the below could be acceptable, if it solves the > problem. > > diff --git a/lisp/international/mule-cmds.el b/lisp/international/mule-cmds.el > index 4137642..6866291 100644 > --- a/l [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > Something like the below could be acceptable, if it solves the > problem. > > diff --git a/lisp/international/mule-cmds.el b/lisp/international/mule-cmds.el > index 4137642..6866291 100644 > --- a/lisp/international/mule-cmds.el > +++ b/lisp/international/mule-cmds.el > @@ -2317,7 +2317,7 @@ locale-language-names > ;; en_IN -- fx. > ("en_IN" "English" utf-8) ; glibc uses utf-8 for English in India > ("en" "English" iso-8859-1) ; English > - ("eo" . "Esperanto") ; Esperanto > + ("eo" "Esperanto" locale-info) ; Esperanto (etc). This does not seem to fix the problem. LANG=eo ./src/emacs -Q still says current-locale-environment "eo_XX.ISO8859-3" This does work (with or without the patch): LANG=eo.UTF-8 ./src/emacs -Q current-locale-environment "eo.UTF-8" Anyway, re-skimming this thread, I think we have these points: 1) The "eo" environment should be in utf-8 -- all the indications seem to point to that, except some outdated Debian files that nobody else uses but Emacs. 2) Using eo.UTF-8 is a work-around that works fine. 3) Changing what Emacs does here might be disruptive to people that are used to Emacs defaulting to Latin-3 for the "eo" locale. So the question is whether Emacs should start doing the right thing as 1), or worry more about 3). I'm leaning more towards 1), but I don't have a strong opinion. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 04 08:39:35 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Oct 2022 12:39:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52857 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ofhCx-0000wA-6v for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 08:39:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57304) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ofhCs-0000vv-G7 for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 08:39:33 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49510) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ofhCm-0006Mg-Bg; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 08:39:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=S9BB8VC38RlJ+/PFAKZfA0VpO5fGUK4bWRgrKVejKdw=; b=R/w3o5XAX3Or Qfh+AedCKWsZN1H63v7TiiIWR/+h7XhKFfeydoUlwDy7IQ1TAiXZ+vfDYFwJkrM/oy4gXD4mz68HM 3RJg8HHpyl07JbReUZZ228XimobMe1ysBm0gTbxwH+1qTrmvczjKL4d98BtYUDyVWwu6FcFguJRgG 9CoHpjTYfofSk1oXYjEufAj1/PYymWGipzIpP7cfCPRjpiUjl6YsvJHP8nRapL+I5t8zZbYI6KG1u T8eAEXiG6G/ekeEJfbq3qW5wURpCYl7x6M56oEAyCXFaao0vK/jB07UgACwZVhnPgh2k00MYEWBd/ N2OD52S12lMPrMmD0Kp+CA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4753 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ofhCl-0006SY-JR; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 08:39:23 -0400 Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2022 15:39:18 +0300 Message-Id: <83r0znvk3t.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <877d1fak51.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Tue, 04 Oct 2022 13:44:10 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83tu5nlgyy.fsf@gnu.org> <83r10rlf1l.fsf@gnu.org> <877d1fak51.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org > Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2022 13:44:10 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Something like the below could be acceptable, if it solves the > > problem. > > > > diff --git a/lisp/international/mule-cmds.el b/lisp/international/mule-cmds.el > > index 4137642..6866291 100644 > > --- a/lisp/international/mule-cmds.el > > +++ b/lisp/international/mule-cmds.el > > @@ -2317,7 +2317,7 @@ locale-language-names > > ;; en_IN -- fx. > > ("en_IN" "English" utf-8) ; glibc uses utf-8 for English in India > > ("en" "English" iso-8859-1) ; English > > - ("eo" . "Esperanto") ; Esperanto > > + ("eo" "Esperanto" locale-info) ; Esperanto > > (etc). This does not seem to fix the problem. It won't solve the problem if you have that X11 file on your system, because we read it before we get to the code I changed. > This does work (with or without the patch): > > LANG=eo.UTF-8 ./src/emacs -Q > current-locale-environment > "eo.UTF-8" But it requires the eo.UTF-8 locale to be available, AFAIU, and for that reason somehow didn't work for the OP. I don't think I understood why it didn't work for him. I still hope the OP will come back and help us understand that. > 1) The "eo" environment should be in utf-8 -- all the indications seem > to point to that, except some outdated Debian files that nobody else > uses but Emacs. > > 2) Using eo.UTF-8 is a work-around that works fine. > > 3) Changing what Emacs does here might be disruptive to people that are > used to Emacs defaulting to Latin-3 for the "eo" locale. > > So the question is whether Emacs should start doing the right thing as > 1), or worry more about 3). > > I'm leaning more towards 1), but I don't have a strong opinion. If we think 2) will work for (almost) everyone, maybe the problem is not serious enough to have to decide between two extremes? 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 406c579c20406e3dc4146e7d1b8975a9; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 13:06:06 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <83bkrukq1f.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e392221b7deeaf@heytings.org> <83zgfej9fy.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2022 21:05:58 +0800 In-Reply-To: <83zgfej9fy.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 05 Sep 2022 15:24:17 +0300") Message-ID: <87ilkzyc09.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20702 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 863 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, Gregory Heytings , schwab@linux-m68k.org, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > Emacs looks in locale.alias before it uses the fallback info in > language-info-alist. And all this is extremely important, because that is the file the X library and X input methods use to determine the real locale underlying a locale name. If an X input method specifies the locale "EO", then it is actually referring to "eo_EO.ISO8859-3", whose coded charset is ISO8859-3. > If this is what locale.alias says, doesn't it mean that the system > wants us to use Latin-3 by default for this locale? IOW, why does > nl_langinfo return a value that is different from what this file says? > Is that because locale.alias comes from X11, not from glibc? X can have different ideas about locale names than the system C library. (nl_langinfo) Emacs must follow the X definition in order to decode keyboard input correctly. 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID baf8e71095041dc4a4e9fd6741044b31; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 13:10:00 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Jonathan Reeve Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <0b2303e3924bf00b49d2@heytings.org> <0b2303e392fb4ac7f236@heytings.org> <83bkrukq1f.fsf@gnu.org> <0b2303e392221b7deeaf@heytings.org> <83zgfej9fy.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmg94v5g.fsf@igel.home> <87y1uxd83r.fsf@jonreeve.com> Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2022 21:09:53 +0800 In-Reply-To: <87y1uxd83r.fsf@jonreeve.com> (Jonathan Reeve's message of "Mon, 05 Sep 2022 17:50:01 +0000") Message-ID: <878rlvybtq.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20702 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 341 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Gregory Heytings , Andreas Schwab , 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Jonathan Reeve writes: > FWIW, my system doesn=E2=80=99t have the obsolete X11 locale.alias file, = and I don=E2=80=99t use X11. locale.alias is not an obsolete file. The X library always looks there when resolving locale names. If you do not use X Windows, then that file should not be there in the first place. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 04 09:13:30 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Oct 2022 13:13:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52918 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ofhjm-00040E-FP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 09:13:30 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:46112) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ofhji-0003zy-4O for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 09:13:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=9vLOPg2n+autUDL1CQB1UZxX32IMcjj5ZI+t3TXXzX4=; b=nIhcNLbH4fTT2NhiecDoSOlZhn NOo6cqrWGAtaKGzpnbcmPrjzectYBePk8pBknKgNPhIBY08fcRin5J1fiE68aDaiMI/Lj+BKaYn9S VrlK1C9o0RH6+k4VsSUU4TfIyexZOk+8Lf2pZgbURtcVMnJcUeE1SWHDvlI23v5uygx0=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=downe) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ofhjY-00046S-AQ; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 15:13:18 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: <83r0znvk3t.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 04 Oct 2022 15:39:18 +0300") References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83tu5nlgyy.fsf@gnu.org> <83r10rlf1l.fsf@gnu.org> <877d1fak51.fsf@gnus.org> <83r0znvk3t.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAG1BMVEXv6NT9/e+HhXcX FxElJBouLCG5taVXVUj///8fCikEAAAAAWJLR0QIht6VegAAAAd0SU1FB+YKBA0KCDX3LiIAAAG2 SURBVDjLddNLc5swEABgMROTK/SgXIOTmGunK8G1E4nk6lQoXKNkKl9LDPXfr15gGdK9eLyftIte CIVI7rgN2XIAhZBGKA8hbJ5wB7mBJOQxJwCk5aP5URl6n+EINmQjGwvpDBgCcFOqQGf4RhyQtjHQ I72d4AamKRJgj/TcfOPzrJMM4E8EHxNwB3ZhHq48NJ1gtscZfCnyLG2pwiz7EugopTBgEosZshtM ExXBtV0HIUPT0hhw2foZJ8HslgRI9V1YHtDWjkg8vAuYg8hhgrSM0pxRs8vEQTTcbeLIoHMAbM7S z20p/97Tnf0exKLhCo9Sj3u1BOgP5W1ZurwpNUUtoErS7E37FZ9n1NsjTUzbZAVvG6rzOaJS6FBt dvOtiSAd+uvhl1rB429RYK3WpT5Fo3KF1tCS2vw/rQGgMufljnUJ+wwLVn0BfX5FgCYrqG/zo7kJ Lwtg9SvGodMFdFSjBzdxAa+HXeZOMzQJm0gfHnN049/IxXn8xKdkuvEqntHnmyK8trDEAC/58Hwf Pq+IS30Pb9DCRY/qA74Ger4sPFntVRjzP5hWzpbww+UzxJfw5OEfjADE7Pdo8nMAAAAldEVYdGRh dGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjItMTAtMDRUMTM6MTA6MDgrMDA6MDBBPsSsAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlm eQAyMDIyLTEwLTA0VDEzOjEwOjA4KzAwOjAwMGN8EAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: New Order's _Low Life_: "track" Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2022 15:13:15 +0200 Message-ID: <87tu4j7mvo.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > It won't solve the problem if you have that X11 file on your system, > because we read it before we get to the code I changed. Ah, right. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > It won't solve the problem if you have that X11 file on your system, > because we read it before we get to the code I changed. Ah, right. >> This does work (with or without the patch): >> >> LANG=eo.UTF-8 ./src/emacs -Q >> current-locale-environment >> "eo.UTF-8" > > But it requires the eo.UTF-8 locale to be available, AFAIU, and for > that reason somehow didn't work for the OP. I don't think I > understood why it didn't work for him. I still hope the OP will come > back and help us understand that. Yes, that would be helpful. On this Ubuntu system, I just uncommented the "eo" line in locale.gen and ran locale-gen, and that made both the "eo" and "eo.UTF-8" locales available. > If we think 2) will work for (almost) everyone, maybe the problem is > not serious enough to have to decide between two extremes? Yes, that's quite possible. But this might also be an opportunity to stop parsing that apparently outdated file X11 file completely... 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 67e1049b2f51bc76d6183234fef4a4bb; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 13:16:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83tu5nlgyy.fsf@gnu.org> <83r10rlf1l.fsf@gnu.org> <877d1fak51.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2022 21:16:39 +0800 In-Reply-To: <877d1fak51.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 04 Oct 2022 13:44:10 +0200") Message-ID: <871qrnybig.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20702 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 626 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, Eli Zaretskii , schwab@linux-m68k.org, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > 1) The "eo" environment should be in utf-8 -- all the indications seem > to point to that, except some outdated Debian files that nobody else > uses but Emacs. /usr/share/locale/locale.alias may be an obsolete Debian file, but /usr/share/X11/locale/locale.alias is not; the X library looks there to resolve locales that come from many sources, including input methods. That means if an input method asks for "EO", it really means "eo_EO.ISO8859-3", and the text it generates will also be Latin-3. If we make "eo" mean UTF-8, then that text will no longer be decoded correctly. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 06 06:52:13 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Oct 2022 10:52:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59077 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ogOU8-0000J8-S8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 06:52:13 -0400 Received: from sonic304-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.191.146]:38624) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ogOU6-0000Iu-5c for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 06:52:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1665053523; bh=3RiGowaUS8SfdtD958u3+2AvK7YSA6pmCh/cAWX2x04=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=jeRbejxAeywTgGs50ox7wAQnV982Kyx+H8GPngcsnJ1fyCD40H+nGYIh+nyj0HLeYMyKfrqg8lgPoEU0mPxAQHRqFrqSU9tE+QbQsPD4DENfqMtX3DbIoSIvj5UWsZbCtH1fGEzXJtikLKI+oHTdv3RXj6HIKL9MS3Imn6r16v0JY4X+egH/6rm3CNXpUN90M8HpknpnhToj/0ROmNb2BhXk4AGHQMDr07UlgCGRh97pw+mutoxdYSjlE8fGBCZjoDbdeOSiqzQRFc4naGVUdOb8KeRVAKlXFMrbPOKSCBNdVG/KAkrLW2CqNxWu8OX4QWgQZbYMW7yC+YdNP7pLww== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1665053523; bh=QfYGwEc0AGKPPtaYqIOEgHNvhao6zp54WzFuB+JB956=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=SP9VDETvmymHFZcsMKhabo/W8pfgIA5TXcjXcHLDkMulECnEBdDWbm9TDyGr04bl4KaD5++0GSXUoNhkKGkRplmgsDjv+T3taA2u/3A36GsxjRL2Wd+iIlZa5wDOEeGHy3W5vBLNRwyHFRd5KVl7VkcB+lN6IFgcYUOwTYI/WTfzZOvWPwtPRZR91G4fcc7gyJQEBEQZLTDoB/F92n2SXQPWxxbjRPkTwcq5gQfkEyx75R6SwGy8eDkUeobqQ6J9NzBuEyYEC0u0lk8Jtfx7NdaW/Cl6gPYESJf3g3Eieq/aT2H6InyEyYAZMuLSzmFnE6giflhlX8Ux9ZPoBS4g0g== X-YMail-OSG: C_Ub8VkVM1nm4nOHNvwgHmewd2kj2ThwtjyhnBSKVOLjcFcop_kV3tLoomBq_jb veTYYBXLXZyGku065DhSGWVTHapTZUEOoIX.E_0dJsVcKD3F5l6LrXXDhIQnqBxdmdvZM6dlcN3P mit8cnwe3RBFrghDPIaPkHXpJs53LV8H.8rDzuNG3GMKEYR.xEGC4wRfvG_y0ZbRZew4WD9ueiSy 7IakFWb248NCnqZmuyU8dUzkSr91lXqN6yRmT7yz97vrgeplalqqZvpaYKtUK07aWlzrSfSIdeCD J6ym7LBOLNj0tfyJLvO8LEnsSSPtrNH_uAmzTTIV_bOzloR2BdN2O3427T.qdOuxE_AJCPXSZQ.J 3n.i6m8KzHDIrD2qfVWaIr48V46hezgBxt6VeWVGxd7VbwNjUAnnaRX7v1MxRPAKkBPs2kDdNyZH E43WOBOGwVLAlx1DD225vkmX9YgI6Y1nSGlvt5ULMz.Vh0mibR76XpM98_ZS5HEnf9Sp5.2MSv0h eAN6ToE5EL6SLRZShb7X0spgSiTJT0DRwYnpNtCvXAkgjiA1le29V0kYwK6adtNl35IFPq21Ddzg 4zJ3qH.411CJz2_QLzZFNdgwMBosXSFVS5TYbbjc_89c8kfp2wwcTeZU.omlgffAbskYRIug_wlF jq38edESiVvUNqmh4wZsnlr3ZQbkZ0WAkMAYvwxkAl42jESqFMSAs7hbZXH8Ua_L0jenHpKNX43d DTTMdMJnBTM4JuoO2E7plJCWn1EiUFMzeqU.LJz110i6wMzoJZA1wjOqiyQGNyB3secxaLA7pN26 VmbhyjlevHnWdueru_RZi.0bH5zdrBQu3GdCqHPC8IO040zGryKF_VPB2kaROkutt1yzZQVjM7_H TyMI2MpvCXUIUMWjqoYuRVgcrZAlpW2PuJYjNaz1pbOJXqGlYduvrwCC71JG5ttJ6f5H_.uen_0n ZtAgLuOcbcLUoB1DhjriNu3jmaitLiCixkGRwfOAp8apGk.lHeZEOEL2Z.gslosfQC.WUdhY.ipe Sx9QovCRR_tdlGDXIAFkzHCDZ2K_yK8_ObMBMxrztrYF9b8jU5qA9N5JP8zY02NKsuA_qOZt7HqW tLCnZ4ze9lPm_ms8lFJrldrwGwNmTgL7fyqIMDVLNAjMXFCzwYW_RCR3Y_KL8Ehvi0guzxjfSBAp i18YIpPXaTkM_mDpXpEJKC80IeyLm84qPOGAI6bb7_nicqVtJ25dTtAmMU_56MFtWaSfKHCNv8bZ EBVMF_JKjrUP1FynR58h9bC_WxZARlAujx4ig5MPZDPnJVDWXTbpDjUbfMxK3RTkjtInmbd3cJAA 9XcyWq43tlrj7eSncVDbHXN6ahR72ddKrhGYK9Fm_GqxnwlZI3gTE0wyiXiQp9rN5lfzqAEbaMGS KE0u3xI8xrR0KLVnYiIFS8iv8Y8y0JmQqhV23x2z7vM1vGKuTwwwkUz0Q5I.8dA_dqgLVjg.pwaW C2ABUG1dmYuxDYOw21MwIJijWhfo41d2imiM_RhHSbp0YOkkCsnUxd0b0xZQLbASR1abfD_Hp1_C IoXeKUq37wzW.KgyEdQKdylOdayOF0gpzp5oy56ftZPXRFT8jIPdtOmhEQd8DkhcC2S3eosFmKm5 IGRoZrRcRU4FU2uG9YqaDHS5mdnXuIUztSSBIgiCLzAO7u2gA4i0E07I_PrB32VEPNCtF4J3kzK8 AZL972JBL6_joT52lrX43G5ocvvtgLqIEj7iY.qu41Nt80G6JPHItzEqG2EU5QPsPxSoiAMp.3RR _kLuv1eNoSQZMp1lKlcvb7gEHj189Lp40v5MsPXFseT78eTLT.i4uW5Xuc_Dahj3Z_xtx9EQqIIz LA8S8lowxiN0EPguujhXuRWFLxAkZV4yTfElZYX7Bzyb1xafY38VkiQD.OouLuymMBDUscZJseuI .pNhqd1Cv_YP8yJaymXaTKoPVd9R9Mnbjkdjn8eD5dtrysED5pn.AtbnIuKvypoTTdfZrcG2TFG7 .y49OPojAUJSV75lALT0OOcipTrkLKwzf8YP8xPZkZmkHzn4G8DiMZSkD3ynPIqYi3CQshiZaB7g 1SPiWKwuiFmASTZgryRH9NRtkX6BYTrhakdWZvJ8DNjiL1K7S0YNYTcV0u2kCp2r5oLELXu4RxBz DaiMQYBSAS6E1SCAXZiDwZ7ewM9v4_rR.zAMRzVJznSy784IiYTL0BkEpzQUq3x_Jr7Kx7hRKmhD EniWNW2qJBhKnlJ2iueD89sVWxjH5Mn1udd2ek.cM_jtB2YHhpy44_0fQDkjo6hIhgcCxDTfwrsM - X-Sonic-MF: Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic304.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 6 Oct 2022 10:52:03 +0000 Received: by hermes--production-sg3-cf9dc7f8d-rww6r (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID a4251b646c5128be78f3f310c72f632d; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 10:51:59 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83tu5nlgyy.fsf@gnu.org> <83r10rlf1l.fsf@gnu.org> <877d1fak51.fsf@gnus.org> <83r0znvk3t.fsf@gnu.org> <87tu4j7mvo.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2022 18:51:52 +0800 In-Reply-To: <87tu4j7mvo.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 04 Oct 2022 15:13:15 +0200") Message-ID: <87y1ttql6f.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20702 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 425 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, Eli Zaretskii , schwab@linux-m68k.org, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > But this might also be an opportunity to stop parsing that apparently > outdated file X11 file completely... The outdated file present on Debian systems is completely distinct from the X11 file, which must be parsed if we want input methods to keep working correctly. It's used by every program that uses one of Xlib or XIM, which is just about every GUI program in existence. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 06 07:29:05 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Oct 2022 11:29:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59125 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ogP3p-0001Dg-7f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 07:29:05 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:44766) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ogP3l-0001DE-GN for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 07:29:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1665055739; bh=4/B7/yiOGvzPqnn3NYmzjhxJXW6o3btpJyPakOMY9+4=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=pBlrCTAadCSzs75S19jnDvXRmsi8+WrLpGY9tnRq/JzsKVV+GsIxXCcDMBkPeEHx+ 2IpQNuQ4J54wWL8A958RL5XfRSUX6zbwSDfGmXhpoRwH8nijri+eeUQVzxLBh+s3q3 X400WzFoV/R8066j484LzR+k3DzBkuzxCoVgF+b2sOHTmmlaQe8O5j8X3ce0ToGDwk X2E6fqMEGaemuy4SqXt3wnlQwKdXw5j5STIesafq3R8GeYKtpN3Dyr4Gw37iHAf5mI MOe6pM/cPgmRPNlZ97rHUVpgwn5xVbtY2eP1NY6hfJyRrOnyYfDUek0G4pwmWBwDFD A/8O1C1QPHcmA== Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2022 11:28:59 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: <87tu4j7mvo.fsf@gnus.org> Message-ID: References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83tu5nlgyy.fsf@gnu.org> <83r10rlf1l.fsf@gnu.org> <877d1fak51.fsf@gnus.org> <83r0znvk3t.fsf@gnu.org> <87tu4j7mvo.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, Eli Zaretskii , schwab@linux-m68k.org, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>> This does work (with or without the patch): >>> >>> LANG=eo.UTF-8 ./src/emacs -Q >>> current-locale-environment >>> "eo.UTF-8" >> >> But it requires the eo.UTF-8 locale to be available, AFAIU, and for >> that reason somehow didn't work for the OP. I don't think I understood >> why it didn't work for him. I still hope the OP will come back and >> help us understand that. Actually that problem has been debugged: it's a NixOS bug. NixOS rejects the locale to "eo.UTF-8" in its configuration files, even though "eo.UTF-8" is a perfectly valid locale. It rejects it because the "eo.UTF-8" string is not present in some text file (apparently the "localedata/SUPPORTED" file from glibc). > > Yes, that would be helpful. On this Ubuntu system, I just uncommented > the "eo" line in locale.gen and ran locale-gen, and that made both the > "eo" and "eo.UTF-8" locales available. > Another similar example is the en_IL (English Israel) locale. X11's locale.alias indicates that "en_IL" alone means "en_IL.ISO8859-1", yet glibc provides only one encoding for "en_IL", namely "UTF-8". To avoid such bugs, the most reasonable thing to do for users is to always specify the encoding. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 06 08:14:08 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Oct 2022 12:14:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59226 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ogPlQ-0004dL-FD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 08:14:08 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:40778) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ogPlN-0004cf-4r for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 08:14:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=sK6YbeL6MKufWDZhdwCGn4/mAy/z4ZLmiudAPt5kV0I=; b=cKj+06pR3nHkrJUund6CRHQp2q qj2eyGmpEag1qHAaHYrI4zm5xdURi18hz4kZfNrgkQRSdH+b4VMOBaa+ncRIsRPddHmecXC+5ceML AfEAgapT22Y68ECgmf9/1/64CfqQzBY47hJb2eyVWbD5fUyynaefeFDeowJEFfjQpH5w=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=downe) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ogPlD-0002aM-EU; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 14:13:57 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Gregory Heytings Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: (Gregory Heytings's message of "Thu, 06 Oct 2022 11:28:59 +0000") References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83tu5nlgyy.fsf@gnu.org> <83r10rlf1l.fsf@gnu.org> <877d1fak51.fsf@gnus.org> <83r0znvk3t.fsf@gnu.org> <87tu4j7mvo.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAG1BMVEVlXVNRTkpMQD1D QT1VLjAzMjCPKzAhHBz///9PwQFHAAAAAWJLR0QIht6VegAAAAd0SU1FB+YKBgwJDcV7K9IAAAGs SURBVDjLdZNdTsMwDMfTPex5JvQCTBwgZDnAhNv3KbX6igTsAqjq9bGTOGmH8MMm+Rf//VljinVP 3r+d38zeIJmBl7Pjvw6MOST/MyLAE3gffXAnBgAHc/y4iwH0lO0kfrDmeL9/MbjaUMANMjDj8cOw lPqJFJTk1Z9DMmBV+x/oG3ANgIL1IUJASj7PCnoFvmlFCXhVsEkewfG7VtXNayvgnQ8tedPyFUi5 t9Z7iL5FWNh2HzNI44QALaaAvKbe2ceIQkQqav49CKRqD8BSmdk2h8yUYtnjripJ4RLwwcMOeJsr dtbl6VYACmAHrCyPrPVOF5UAyWvXUy4DDloVzTzFEMrGAboC2LPA5t74grMUly7PF723HNHJltYY NodYImQO64/d3u4GrPQHpBMRsNBctXJVlPMu81JDjDl1FZTfDDoobaQcaw1J7Tm+2kVcSSrdKGju fOhra0Wqdfp2JiQaspYAO5F4JobjN4OhAhwmRBrWiXBExM9YAH//ExIOo3gRv7CCd/GM7EEcWIkU XK7soUnqudSyGFiHgdKUth+uAG4kyDCCroTB6RezKNLXpYlzmgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUA MjAyMi0xMC0wNlQxMjowOToxMyswMDowMOg+mCQAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMTAt MDZUMTI6MDk6MTMrMDA6MDCZYyCYAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Alan Vega's _Collision Drive_: "Outlaw" Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2022 14:13:54 +0200 Message-ID: <87r0zlywsd.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Gregory Heytings writes: > Actually that problem has been debugged: it's a NixOS bug. NixOS > rejects the locale to "eo.UTF-8" in its configuration files, even > though "eo.UTF-8" is a perfectly valid locale. It rejects it be [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, Eli Zaretskii , schwab@linux-m68k.org, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Gregory Heytings writes: > Actually that problem has been debugged: it's a NixOS bug. NixOS > rejects the locale to "eo.UTF-8" in its configuration files, even > though "eo.UTF-8" is a perfectly valid locale. It rejects it because > the "eo.UTF-8" string is not present in some text file (apparently the > "localedata/SUPPORTED" file from glibc). Ah, right. Somebody should report this to the NixOS people, I guess? >> Yes, that would be helpful. On this Ubuntu system, I just >> uncommented the "eo" line in locale.gen and ran locale-gen, and that >> made both the "eo" and "eo.UTF-8" locales available. >> > > Another similar example is the en_IL (English Israel) locale. X11's > locale.alias indicates that "en_IL" alone means "en_IL.ISO8859-1", yet > glibc provides only one encoding for "en_IL", namely "UTF-8". > > To avoid such bugs, the most reasonable thing to do for users is to > always specify the encoding. So I think the conclusion here is that after taking all the options into consideration, we don't want to change anything on the Emacs side here, both because of backwards compat issues, and the X encoding issues noted by Po Lu. I'm therefore closing this bug report. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 06 08:14:15 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Oct 2022 12:14:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59230 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ogPlW-0004dl-S8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 08:14:15 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:40796) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ogPlV-0004dN-7K for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 08:14:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=TUHxsY9KTqz/OKANsFDegbM5fXmNT+b3/KL6WPSNC2s=; b=F81467rYedEy1CpT5e1NWI1sHs Pk2yiR9wkmx3/X4CaMwucCIKV+sZSZ6x4WHXmBSzU8/sQ9SqqEyP6nNRgJp4eB2SONGA9YYrVoke9 XgA8zc3elwBrpCVTRjZJXPaUVzLB6Oh3kMMubo0s7f6RQhnklcCH5KyEgbCMHjsPQ6Jo=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=downe) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ogPlN-0002ac-F7 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 14:14:07 +0200 Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2022 14:14:05 +0200 Message-Id: <87pmf5yws2.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #57531 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: close 57531 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) close 57531 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 06 10:20:45 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Oct 2022 14:20:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33060 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ogRjw-0007FH-Vx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 10:20:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42476) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ogRjq-0007F0-QX for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 10:20:42 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45116) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ogRjk-00050n-CR; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 10:20:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=eyPegPCSAnhiaOzU637YsrtLBHA1UnqYDMI+sumsO24=; b=ewJOA5/Ul68z zg+LUDhx1C3UqGJbsE3Jch6rHBtWUr65CsN3BDIpk5q+QUTjGZwa9ZF9hWBDFeuQSE6jLxo+iMAiP tMLHzbd0BDZlL+TkWXm/jODb1d54JFCS0TbJZjpbyX7TJYVdKVVXyHBDgd73VrbuzdGoBs5RJloq1 Gf4crQuHnGNGUpGU/BVavfwCxFbf+7BtwPBsZMZMeuXlsQYUBH5ZqA/XVFAwTU2U/Yi3rtX2ufrtt +Cb/pCptFuour53U7cfc3pnwPoaWNOqDJfoj12j3WfiIMeWJKq5/Vbs9vP5EoesrFVtfgLANLwhPh pzP5bTE6PI5nTt29kbS1Ig==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3431 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ogRji-00054c-Ia; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 10:20:32 -0400 Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2022 17:20:28 +0300 Message-Id: <83pmf5owyb.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: (message from Gregory Heytings on Thu, 06 Oct 2022 11:28:59 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83tu5nlgyy.fsf@gnu.org> <83r10rlf1l.fsf@gnu.org> <877d1fak51.fsf@gnus.org> <83r0znvk3t.fsf@gnu.org> <87tu4j7mvo.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, larsi@gnus.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2022 11:28:59 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: Eli Zaretskii , jonathan@jonreeve.com, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org, > schwab@linux-m68k.org > > Actually that problem has been debugged: it's a NixOS bug. NixOS rejects > the locale to "eo.UTF-8" in its configuration files, even though > "eo.UTF-8" is a perfectly valid locale. It rejects it because the > "eo.UTF-8" string is not present in some text file (apparently the > "localedata/SUPPORTED" file from glibc). > > > > > Yes, that would be helpful. On this Ubuntu system, I just uncommented > > the "eo" line in locale.gen and ran locale-gen, and that made both the > > "eo" and "eo.UTF-8" locales available. > > > > Another similar example is the en_IL (English Israel) locale. X11's > locale.alias indicates that "en_IL" alone means "en_IL.ISO8859-1", yet > glibc provides only one encoding for "en_IL", namely "UTF-8". > > To avoid such bugs, the most reasonable thing to do for users is to always > specify the encoding. Should we perhaps have an entry in PROBLEMS with that information? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 06 11:15:56 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Oct 2022 15:15:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33197 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ogSbM-0000Jg-FF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 11:15:56 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:45070) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ogSbJ-0000JV-FD for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 11:15:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1665069352; bh=QyPXYnq2pUI2Y5LfSTyVE9E+X9DCGpfgeUanUPRjGMk=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=KmHYZRofZhP4+xPE8/nHBHcnJ3mARVEzlj4Aul2ZAh/GJji7/TkKbCiADVdRkuzxP QNnlT3z4W45ijRIktYKSvFfs1uWwWAlUiR3AY6UDt/X38Cvy80PVLiio7wsFB4iBUZ jDiGuzBa+uk9eMXNhIvGTxody0huYlMJzC5MG+ZiKu/VPhYloCi8beqX43YwS5h8ql 7ZFuDPM6V8KZV3FhLwif7YQeg4LXITH/ODYbLJ4NY6uW0xW5sIjjletKlDmMj6wRPp lWBAuuuH2u/1rpSo0LSngC4Qqv837rmSBWiGtdeojEY9+PoEqd1TEsIYTMTVhOil7E PEYKP52hRwntg== Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2022 15:15:51 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" In-Reply-To: <83pmf5owyb.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83tu5nlgyy.fsf@gnu.org> <83r10rlf1l.fsf@gnu.org> <877d1fak51.fsf@gnus.org> <83r0znvk3t.fsf@gnu.org> <87tu4j7mvo.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmf5owyb.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, larsi@gnus.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> To avoid such bugs, the most reasonable thing to do for users is to >> always specify the encoding. > > Should we perhaps have an entry in PROBLEMS with that information? > Would it not be better if Emacs checked the LANG environment variable on startup and warned the user when LANG does not specify an encoding? Like this: diff --git a/lisp/startup.el b/lisp/startup.el index 50a8f491d8..338fb47f64 100644 --- a/lisp/startup.el +++ b/lisp/startup.el @@ -824,6 +824,14 @@ normal-top-level (unless inhibit-startup-hooks (run-hooks 'window-setup-hook)))) + (when (< (length (split-string (getenv "LANG") "\\.")) 2) + (display-warning 'initialization + (format "%s%s%s" + "The LANG environment variable, set to `" + (getenv "LANG") + "', does not specify an encoding.") + :warning)) + ;; Subprocesses of Emacs do not have direct access to the terminal, so ;; unless told otherwise they should only assume a dumb terminal. ;; We are careful to do it late (after term-setup-hook), although the From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 06 12:06:20 2022 Received: (at 57531) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Oct 2022 16:06:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33293 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ogTO8-0001et-2R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 12:06:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51834) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ogTO6-0001ec-IV for 57531@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 12:06:18 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37198) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ogTO0-0005Bs-FI; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 12:06:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=IvbG/FPonLSD0lDcpFFTHXrFab3swZ5p2DqtmlDS7cw=; b=AQmCYkDxJid/ ehhA/jeRY8cMc6z3tN9LacbzmeyGxndDw1Hl4/gczCyy2nh9XOoBHv5nSAOyLnuFYr0/0wMt9LAXw +0E+JGO0DKqpG1WuL2nSCblY+mvyu/d2h0V/OIFF89mzHnE3E2WYhVDe9l+v0FiLg/0EBbkV96fEa H0sqyBwIoEHBl5REJoOyCTDT7soMlGPn11GkJffQV8i5Z/XFi2Yagf7aB1S5dFxibcPbrY8JAU5RJ 4MmLSVIZ+YAdwXpW+ysNqymY8m7XGZt/RdvAJRClUTYZYxGrB/QaAY4BrnMdVD3LX+iofs4oo82Tn R9Ck3M1CQSUtpuXZBbMsBA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1930 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ogTNr-0003FX-Ax; Thu, 06 Oct 2022 12:06:12 -0400 Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2022 19:05:57 +0300 Message-Id: <83edvlos2i.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: (message from Gregory Heytings on Thu, 06 Oct 2022 15:15:51 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#57531: 28.1; Character encoding missing for "eo" References: <87h71r0w5z.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83h71qqq5e.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1p7oz.fsf@jonreeve.com> <8335d8o6ow.fsf@gnu.org> <877d2kpfe1.fsf@jonreeve.com> <83o7vwmlet.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi4p6se.fsf@jonreeve.com> <831qsrn1im.fsf@gnu.org> <875yi31v17.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83v8q3li60.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnajzj6z.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <83tu5nlgyy.fsf@gnu.org> <83r10rlf1l.fsf@gnu.org> <877d1fak51.fsf@gnus.org> <83r0znvk3t.fsf@gnu.org> <87tu4j7mvo.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmf5owyb.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57531 Cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, larsi@gnus.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org, 57531@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2022 15:15:51 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: jonathan@jonreeve.com, larsi@gnus.org, schwab@linux-m68k.org, > 57531@debbugs.gnu.org > > > >> To avoid such bugs, the most reasonable thing to do for users is to > >> always specify the encoding. > > > > Should we perhaps have an entry in PROBLEMS with that information? > > > > Would it not be better if Emacs checked the LANG environment variable on > startup and warned the user when LANG does not specify an encoding? Like > this: We could do that, but: . issuing a warning doesn't solve the problem . experience shows that warnings shown at startup time frequently go unnoticed, since they might "drown in the sea" of the many messages shown by startup (for example, I use desktop, which emits gobs of messages when it restores a session) So I'm not objected to having a warning, but an entry in PROBLEMS would still be good. Also: > + (format "%s%s%s" > + "The LANG environment variable, set to `" > + (getenv "LANG") > + "', does not specify an encoding.") I believe the accepted terminology for that is "codeset". From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:17:35 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2022 11:24:08 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator