From unknown Sat Aug 16 21:02:14 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#57503 <57503@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#57503 <57503@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file Reply-To: bug#57503 <57503@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2025 04:02:14 +0000 retitle 57503 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to cus= tom-file reassign 57503 emacs submitter 57503 Joost Kremers severity 57503 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 31 09:14:29 2022 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Aug 2022 13:14:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38523 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oTNY5-0002FQ-2e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2022 09:14:29 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:43140) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oTNY1-0002FH-QV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Wed, 31 Aug 2022 09:14:19 -0400 (EDT) User-agent: mu4e 1.8.3; emacs 28.1.91 From: Joost Kremers To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 14:43:43 +0200 Message-ID: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.20; envelope-from=joostkremers@fastmail.fm; helo=wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) The variable `package-selected-packages` should not be saved to the users i= nit file (or whatever `custom-file` points to). This was discussed before on emacs-devel but wasn't resolved: but= =20 The gist of it is that if you keep your configuration under version control, having package-selected-packages written to your config file is inconvenien= t if you share your config across multiple machines but do not want to have the = exact same set of packages installed on each. Even if you do want to keep the exact same set of packages on each machine,= you still need to be careful about installing them, because the order of package installation affects the order of package-selected-packages, and so does deleting and reinstalling a package. As a result, I often experienced meaningless VC conflicts that needed to be resolved. IMHO the value of package-selected-packages should be written to a separate file, so that it's possible to put it under version control or ignore it, independently from the rest of one's configuration. In GNU Emacs 28.1.91 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.20, c= airo version 1.16.0) of 2022-08-03 built on Lenovo Repository revision: f23d45603918721ec80bfcef883d22fab15cb9f1 Repository branch: emacs-28 Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12013000 System Description: elementary OS 6.1 J=C3=B3lnir Configured using: 'configure --with-native-compilation' Configured features: ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GPM GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LCMS2 LIBOTF LIBSELINUX LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 M17N_FLT MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOT= IFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS X11= XDBE XIM XPM GTK3 ZLIB Important settings: value of $LC_MONETARY: en_IE.UTF-8 value of $LC_NUMERIC: en_IE.UTF-8 value of $LC_TIME: en_IE.UTF-8 value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=3Dibus locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: mu4e:main Minor modes in effect: flycheck-indicator-mode: t mu4e-search-minor-mode: t mu4e-update-minor-mode: t mu4e-context-minor-mode: t minions-mode: t doom-modeline-mode: t which-key-mode: t global-atomic-chrome-edit-mode: t marginalia-mode: t all-the-icons-completion-mode: t company-prescient-mode: t prescient-persist-mode: t vertico-multiform-mode: t vertico-mode: t projectile-mode: t global-diff-hl-mode: t global-git-commit-mode: t csv-field-index-mode: t shell-dirtrack-mode: t company-quickhelp-mode: t company-quickhelp-local-mode: t global-company-mode: t electric-pair-mode: t recentf-mode: t delete-selection-mode: t override-global-mode: t tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t show-paren-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t buffer-read-only: t column-number-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t auto-save-visited-mode: t overwrite-mode: overwrite-mode-binary Load-path shadows: ~/.emacs.d/lisp/custom hides /usr/local/share/emacs/28.1.91/lisp/custom /home/joost/.emacs.d/elpa/transient-20220806.2224/transient hides /usr/loca= l/share/emacs/28.1.91/lisp/transient Features: (shadow emacsbug qp gnutls epa-file mailalias ace-window vc-mtn vc-hg vc-bzr vc-src vc-sccs vc-cvs vc-rcs consult-vertico consult compat-28 vc-git display-fill-column-indicator flycheck-indicator avy smiley gnus-cite mm-ar= chive mail-extr visual-fill-column display-line-numbers mu4e-settings gnus-dired = mu4e mu4e-org mu4e-view gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 mm-view mml-smime smime dig gnus-= sum gnus-group gnus-undo gnus-start gnus-dbus gnus-cloud nnimap nnmail mail-sou= rce utf7 netrc nnoo gnus-spec gnus-int gnus-range gnus-win gnus nnheader mu4e-m= ain mu4e-headers mu4e-compose mu4e-draft mu4e-actions smtpmail mu4e-search mu4e-lists mu4e-bookmarks mu4e-mark mu4e-message flow-fill mule-util mu4e-contacts mu4e-update mu4e-folders mu4e-server mu4e-context mu4e-vars mu4e-helpers mu4e-config jk-input-methods quail company-box company-box-doc frame-local company-box-icons company-amelia amelia parse-csv dedicated wgr= ep-ag wgrep flycheck-ledger vterm bookmark term disp-table ehelp vterm-module term/xterm xterm ielm minions doom-modeline doom-modeline-segments doom-modeline-env doom-modeline-core shrink-path which-key atomic-chrome ii= mage image+ image-file image-converter marginalia all-the-icons-completion company-prescient prescient orderless vertico-multiform vertico groovy-mode dockerfile-mode sh-script smie executable jsonian impatient-mode htmlize ti= de tide-lv typescript-mode indium indium-list-sources indium-scratch indium-interaction indium-chrome indium-nodejs indium-repl indium-debugger indium-debugger-litable js2-refactor js2r-paredit js2r-conveniences js2r-conditionals js2r-wrapping js2r-functions js2r-vars mc-hide-unmatched-lines-mode mc-mark-more mc-cycle-cursors multiple-cursors= -core rect js2r-iife js2r-formatting js2r-helpers indium-debugger-locals indium-breakpoint indium-inspector indium-render indium-faces indium-seq-fix indium-client indium-structs json-process-client js2-mode js cc-mode cc-fon= ts cc-guess cc-menus cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs jupy= ter python-pytest lsp-pyright dap-python paredit sesman clojure-mode align dap-= mode dap-tasks dap-launch lsp-docker dap-overlays eldoc-box jsonrpc ert debug backtrace lsp-ui lsp-ui-flycheck lsp-ui-doc goto-addr lsp-ui-imenu lsp-ui-p= eek lsp-ui-sideline flycheck-posframe flycheck lsp-mode network-stream markdown= -mode inline imenu f f-shortdoc shortdoc lsp-ui-util face-remap lsp-protocol ht ag vc-svn find-dired s projectile lisp-mnt grep compile ibuf-ext ibuffer ibuffer-loaddefs thingatpt diff-hl log-view vc-dir ewoc vc vc-dispatcher diff-mode git-commit magit-git magit-base magit-section crm compat-27 compa= t-26 with-editor transient compat log-edit message rfc822 mml mml-sec epa derive= d epg rfc6068 epg-config gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddefs mm-decode mm-bodies mm-en= code mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader pcvs-util add-log autorevert filenotify aggressive-indent sendmail mail-utils nswbuff yaml-mode yaml guess-language flyspell ispell reftex reftex-loaddefs reftex-vars csv-mode sort tab-jump-o= ut yasnippet-snippets yasnippet company-org-block org-settings org-clock ob-ju= pyter jupyter-tramp jupyter-server jupyter-server-ioloop jupyter-ioloop-comm jupyter-ioloop zmq zmq-core jupyter-rest-api url-http url-auth mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 mm-util ietf-drums mail-prsvr url-gw nsm rmc jupyter-org-extensions jupyter-org-client jupyter-repl jupyter-kernel-manag= er jupyter-channel jupyter-widget-client websocket bindat simple-httpd jupyter-client jupyter-comm-layer jupyter-messages hmac-def jupyter-mime shr kinsoku text-property-search puny svg jupyter-kernelspec jupyter-env jupyter-base eieio-base ob-shell ob-scheme ob-clojure ob-python python tram= p-sh org-element avl-tree dom org ob ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob ob-table ob-exp org-macro org-footnote org-src ob-comint org-pcomplete org-list org-faces org-entities noutline outline org-version ob-emacs-lisp ob-core ob-eval org-table oc-basic ol org-keys oc org-compat org-macs org-loaddefs find-func cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs denote xdg dired dired-loaddefs docker-tramp tramp-cache tramp tramp-loaddefs trampver tramp-integration files-x tramp-c= ompat shell pcomplete comint ansi-color parse-time ls-lisp format-spec biblio biblio-download biblio-dissemin biblio-ieee biblio-hal biblio-dblp biblio-crossref biblio-arxiv timezone biblio-doi biblio-core let-alist url-= queue ido hl-line bibtex iso8601 time-date adaptive-wrap goggles comp comp-cstr warnings pulse posframe bm company-quickhelp pos-tip all-the-icons all-the-icons-faces data-material data-weathericons data-octicons data-file= icons data-faicons data-alltheicons company-keywords company-etags etags fileloop generator xref project company-gtags company-dabbrev-code company-dabbrev company-ipa company-files company-clang company-cmake company-semantic company-template company-css company-capf company solarized-light-theme solarized-theme solarized solarized-faces color paradox paradox-menu paradox-commit-list hydra ring lv cus-edit pp cus-load paradox-execute paradox-github paradox-core spinner dash cl-extra help-mode jk-functions ad= vice eshell esh-cmd esh-ext esh-opt esh-proc esh-io esh-arg esh-module esh-groups esh-util notifications dbus xml edmacro kmacro server elec-pair recentf tree-widget wid-edit delsel use-package use-package-ensure use-package-deli= ght use-package-diminish use-package-bind-key bind-key use-package-core tex-site easy-mmode rx realgud-recursive-autoloads info package browse-url url url-p= roxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie url-domsuf url-ut= il mailcap url-handlers url-parse auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs eieio-loaddefs password-cache json subr-x map url-vars seq byte-opt gv byte= comp byte-compile cconv cl-loaddefs cl-lib pcase iso-transl tooltip eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode regi= ster page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar = mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer cl-gen= eric cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao kor= ean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethio= pic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray cl-preloaded nadvice butt= on loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 = md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting cairo move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process native-compile emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 848943 78066) (symbols 48 64672 39) (strings 32 228119 24655) (string-bytes 1 8079504) (vectors 16 112770) (vector-slots 8 1998465 158112) (floats 8 1911 2096) (intervals 56 1567 885) (buffers 992 24)) --=20 Joost Kremers Life has its moments From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 02 09:11:52 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Sep 2022 13:11:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45282 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oU6Sd-00040m-PX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 09:11:52 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:57929) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oU6Sb-00040W-G1 for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 09:11:50 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B6F07240103 for <57503@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 2 Sep 2022 15:11:41 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1662124303; bh=XVunpLuee3Sqh/Sk2hxMIhSKbq/iwxDdUxbWlVBhSmI=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=iRTMQp1em+kWmBOgr4wyuAUidlr3zq1aBZLvJNgcMzJdpCsF3H/Cv1fezIyAprige PjLhD78ypJHQ385y3nPUw0G699HEXPb8SVir3ozD8tTNOXEhpZUniWR+3S83iHwaPW VP44Bjs6FssmLulaoSmVmtNbcJ3fk4TESmVDZvq0YyevC1y7KG60rZg9XE56DPLbKb uNL2rsUDFU7kBBMfip6gyCI4mnnlgzLYlycrdrPg8W0HmYpEPxmKmbFjwGtkc4vCwv 0s1xS/GMAP/i6QgRyhoUGx8SWDROcHgJCRVF6VmxrdyoI2FublfDfg3MvQPAolGB0W qvkkraOVhRbJQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4MJywr5XvBz6tlh; Fri, 2 Sep 2022 15:11:39 +0200 (CEST) From: Philip Kaludercic To: Joost Kremers Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> (Joost Kremers's message of "Wed, 31 Aug 2022 14:43:43 +0200") References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; prefer-encrypt=nopreference; keydata= mDMEYHHqUhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAp3GdmYJ6tm5McweY6dEvIYIiry+Oz9rU4MH6NHWK0Ee0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiQBBMWCAA4FiEEDM2H44ZoPt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJ CAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQtVrAHPRh1FyTkgEAjlbGPxFchvMbxzAES3r8QLuZgCxeAXunM9gh io0ePtUBALVhh9G6wIoZhl0gUCbQpoN/UJHI08Gm1qDob5zDxnIHuDgEYHHqUhIKKwYBBAGXVQEF AQEHQNcRB+MUimTMqoxxMMUERpOR+Q4b1KgncDZkhrO2ql1tAwEIB4h4BBgWCAAgFiEEDM2H44Zo Pt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwwACgkQtVrAHPRh1Fw1JwD/Qo7kvtib8jy7puyWrSv0MeTS g8qIxgoRWJE/KKdkCLEA/jb9b9/g8nnX+UcwHf/4VfKsjExlnND3FrBviXUW6NcB Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2022 13:11:39 +0000 Message-ID: <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: 57503@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Joost Kremers writes: > The variable `package-selected-packages` should not be saved to the users init > file (or whatever `custom-file` points to). This was discussed before on > emacs-devel but wasn't resolved: > > but > > The gist of it is that if you keep your configuration under version control, > having package-selected-packages written to your config file is inconvenient if > you share your config across multiple machines but do not want to have the exact > same set of packages installed on each. > > Even if you do want to keep the exact same set of packages on each machine, you > still need to be careful about installing them, because the order of package > installation affects the order of package-selected-packages, and so does > deleting and reinstalling a package. As a result, I often experienced > meaningless VC conflicts that needed to be resolved. > > IMHO the value of package-selected-packages should be written to a separate > file, so that it's possible to put it under version control or ignore it, > independently from the rest of one's configuration. How about writing it into a file like "~/.config/emacs/elpa/selected-packages"? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 02 09:18:03 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Sep 2022 13:18:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45287 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oU6Yc-0004A8-L5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 09:18:03 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f53.google.com ([209.85.128.53]:54178) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oU6Ya-00049d-Bq for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 09:18:00 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f53.google.com with SMTP id h1so1234647wmd.3 for <57503@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 06:18:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=2I3tNqTQ+kWRFqSRtQRr4SHyefQFydCpetBUwHZ6tIM=; b=W+rtfXzLh5oKNsfdmlQn6oNSjiGORt2muqzsDrbXeslDXAK1R0PUiPdl03KaGs5P5C DS7wtgC/BzRB+Ydl5G/Z2h4FWQoVzjATVglJQYzNS0sywewjqKws/I+KyM78xtcAXVQ+ sbIgLoBupjYQqtxV38vhhKOSmPsJEzhBFc53y3hMGWN6TLAbKmoUTb6HQlYwE/CZdQJx vTEtHqy+yMwEI+yynhvonDGoYyyHwgVbqJNsmEtjbg+WaiEmO79SxnZLtCPpLAf0A1Zy foFS+PAGjdzmWygxCMmbkW4SUUnFpKL8HTUof+ImyzmkYvy9a83N6C2pcCgsbQcMYm2r JiBg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date; bh=2I3tNqTQ+kWRFqSRtQRr4SHyefQFydCpetBUwHZ6tIM=; b=A6tuR4BB12ra5rY65oyFCQOxuMUSX71Menj3Qtbz5YRq6AZ7p665I8xEnej21l4ADU a8aVAwfFh6ObDnU18x+Sdc/1g80Wy6sa+DqKCH8RqPP41i0rJqPzVSLqolKAC61gfEzz 95K216O9FwT+J+nqeeKqeJ2gfr0lnQGgDsgTpf7k4LDt5W+Bi/YQFV5tx9N15GADg7Eu KYwIHEPiqbFIPI5KLnWcVQPtPP41zx1M/pHWvhytzxNr0TE7AXT5+v9dOD/EOGwS7W/A 1zvAthe48iAXwEDhbjY3sWO1xETT+qrPmghZhAdYSC5aSNHEg69rdcy1gZOTkwwJVWWc 9aNA== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo1gLgj3vktxbPvH1LqLo8zrjEGyXhp64L7PQI/52UYfGZCDhWl5 iPSPpVtt10m8hoLCllWI4yA+k4tukCU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR6nsYfcrXQ0hWi4rp4SImbOZuyWYYG3SCmS+olY0mV66b3yutFdonyM/RJi8msuP0KH2zjFOg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:1e88:b0:3a6:2ca2:e34f with SMTP id be8-20020a05600c1e8800b003a62ca2e34fmr2913383wmb.146.1662124674019; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 06:17:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rltb ([2a01:e0a:3f3:fb50:1dab:37d5:97df:8ec]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r7-20020a05600c35c700b003a5b6086381sm9404504wmq.48.2022.09.02.06.17.53 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 02 Sep 2022 06:17:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Philip Kaludercic Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> (Philip Kaludercic's message of "Fri, 02 Sep 2022 13:11:39 +0000") References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2022 15:17:52 +0200 Message-ID: <87fsh9gbjz.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Fri, 02 Sep 2022 13:11:39 +0000, Philip Kaludercic said: >> IMHO the value of package-selected-packages should be written to a s= eparate >> file, so that it's possible to put it under version control or ignor= e it, >> independently from the rest of one's configuration. Philip> How about writing it into a file like "~/.config/emacs/elpa/sel= ected-packages"? Didn=CA=BCt Lars add `define-multisession-variable' exactly for this kind of use case? Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 02 09:18:08 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Sep 2022 13:18:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45290 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oU6Yh-0004AR-DY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 09:18:07 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:35920) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oU6Yf-00049j-KU for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 09:18:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=uFcrm27RW452behjlrYVkZkGOrqwlFNzDvcHCGnT418=; b=c3N/DIOeCwT/WZrusIxjtHzeGr HL+Fi0841V1dZyuudKNVSSa1834Pujfgsg1BEloarcMtFkpOwKcofTEqwwkR3ZAJ3cpiuAO2/t+/b 5IcJmtkzxKVNnJS5iJbWh6ljb6JU9vWw8eA87HJuXs1Qlo6wBwDJ6slGYeiTNT8gVGkU=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oU6YW-0005ms-KH; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 15:17:58 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Philip Kaludercic Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> (Philip Kaludercic's message of "Fri, 02 Sep 2022 13:11:39 +0000") References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEV9coBFLl4VFRWx raft7Ob////o4EvwAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+YJAg0QNMh+jXIAAAGKSURBVDjLlZRb doQgDIZFXIDGWYBkugA1WYA27H9NDQG8TOtDMwcO5uNPwm0aN/xtzSfI343+7tabo3dFoR0igo4C DgDaJYUnonnFmwUDnjy1d4AGGj/DMdFdgC8fofENlTkJNEv2T0S+7wcHhyLHn2ZnpeHwAd7wK3ku 1XrAcf8A7zVld9rOHHOqKKwYOG5u6fYDkM4JOpZoJidYrdhYrQLdKpW8D/9FQbrE6QCXHKR7GA6Q AvsSKpEDaNxRqoJm7DS6vCzFSCcg0OzSviwFZ2B+3e5UkLYWUKeeCoIupxggaKh0KbxkSRc5igaB cFcQK8jL8yWHRHWrzCJtyZ8VxDafZi7L66hWFZkTtewtgqdogFmiWA4zlo4kA/VHEpa6J50UkCQc z/MYVWUgljXr4mysZZ7A0JZPRbVXYEdkpzKzVJCYtm90VX5RAMe127/kCmYIem8DY9zr0ed11As7 icOs3wyUZxYw9Bu+UqDFbgmfz2yC9ByGcn0Y/7AElicATwCfwMOfzL/BD8VDqPeEMP8PAAAAJXRF WHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIyLTA5LTAyVDEzOjE2OjUyKzAwOjAwSAUqvgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpt b2RpZnkAMjAyMi0wOS0wMlQxMzoxNjo1MiswMDowMDlYkgIAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Brigitte Fontaine's _Comme =?utf-8?Q?=C3=A0?= la radio_: "Le Goudron" Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2022 15:17:55 +0200 Message-ID: <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Philip Kaludercic writes: > How about writing it into a file like > "~/.config/emacs/elpa/selected-packages"? The defcustom could just be changed to a define-multisession-variable. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Philip Kaludercic writes: > How about writing it into a file like > "~/.config/emacs/elpa/selected-packages"? The defcustom could just be changed to a define-multisession-variable. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 02 10:34:03 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Sep 2022 14:34:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47376 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oU7kB-0006cZ-1K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 10:34:03 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f47.google.com ([209.85.221.47]:43889) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oU7k8-0006c5-M2 for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 10:34:01 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f47.google.com with SMTP id u18so2558485wrq.10 for <57503@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 07:34:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=a3kKrvZUNtyoq/fSq9yZPXukGmc6z4GzYV6m53wWdy0=; b=QkHF3MAn2FDZtvA2i7r0M9hrc8nAECGD3UIrLERwXLI6ysycNZMemSKHQ+rETlhmoK /mlaD2QykO7igWUAjyu9ENoXbMZndNfk/CHjukB7nujBS02olXauuwwI11Wg6Xd7eLug g9M4CnAjNGi+EiO0NQPx6fkYGF+i/R8lm9KEbtn4jEARSs4v8P3nc9i7AowuRZfKsIiB g2plOyxdS1ARaAP+iOb0C5lOMzZXg0Bd+h/yc/IRiciSb2HrXsdwIIsOsUaHslmCqF77 jmbPmwExiRl3ow1VCPs6zUnG0VXGjV5Dn9NXORS6HPoawVPHRzutk96axgR9aF5OpGa3 pZrw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=a3kKrvZUNtyoq/fSq9yZPXukGmc6z4GzYV6m53wWdy0=; b=8HQlthiAmDsthP4Up7a5QenWH+D4tZDWvaPh3RJ7QJ6rNM7s/iEP+CgdCNlDfa6wxa SeUXYDf71EXzdw2nY7BKHnZkLEzgCb7Pbos9mhttfvGxZEC1Ir5S8j46nn/cka3qgrp6 2fW+vcNmNG42dPkWEwoR1wlqXJZ/vs6ndUbN3cw0HprrNCoi/4dyNb49pi60TMJ6Nj1B eh7ggaChocMM0Of1joImvNRlVKD65TPQgMk6wTrC8OdkLRXWFMgSZjOvL/6QIH8SEmLV Yd6OCCD1JWvRJqzpMlDgZ05N/icb9qkAosggl2Pltg72hg6JygaL4CFEfOTZIwgGZI2I dk3Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo0Bz6zCvacSHQRcypgs4yxbLp67fh0cpWJMgB4b6y9ZFJ9rC5HS 2Yz9E9S3HhKqcX4VLbNQGDnBbzbkLqA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR4a4N96LnriiUy1A6LFWghJfKBoLYEl3Ue+55VBxLpLkcwcXuIol84kC+SD0t5vywRr2e5Xsg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:795:b0:226:e8d9:828c with SMTP id bu21-20020a056000079500b00226e8d9828cmr8785247wrb.464.1662129234328; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 07:33:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rltb ([2a01:e0a:3f3:fb50:ac58:d3dc:7386:dfaf]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x13-20020a1c7c0d000000b003a5ca627333sm8199308wmc.8.2022.09.02.07.33.52 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 02 Sep 2022 07:33:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Fri, 02 Sep 2022 15:17:55 +0200") References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2022 16:33:52 +0200 Message-ID: <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> On Fri, 02 Sep 2022 15:17:55 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen said: Lars> Philip Kaludercic writes: >> How about writing it into a file like >> "~/.config/emacs/elpa/selected-packages"? Lars> The defcustom could just be changed to a define-multisession-vari= able. For values of 'just' that are a little bigger than changing that one line =F0=9F=98=80 rough=CA=BCn=CA=BCready patch attached. Seems to work fine. I=CA=BCve not t= ested the interaction with a .emacs that has package-selected-packages set, but if I understand multisession variables correctly that will just be ignored. --=-=-= Content-Type: text/x-diff Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-Make-package-selected-packages-a-multisession-variab.patch >From 1a84bfbc1b568da6bf63bf9679a317b29f78d0e9 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Robert Pluim Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2022 16:28:11 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] Make package-selected-packages a multisession variable To: emacs-devel@gnu.org --- lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el | 63 ++++++++++++++++++-------------------- 1 file changed, 30 insertions(+), 33 deletions(-) diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el index ed23ee5f22..cda55bd90e 100644 --- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el +++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el @@ -384,7 +384,8 @@ package-unsigned-archives :risky t :version "24.4") -(defcustom package-selected-packages nil +(require 'multisession) +(define-multisession-variable package-selected-packages nil "Store here packages installed explicitly by user. This variable is fed automatically by Emacs when installing a new package. This variable is used by `package-autoremove' to decide @@ -395,8 +396,8 @@ package-selected-packages To check if a package is contained in this list here, use `package--user-selected-p', as it may populate the variable with a sane initial value." - :version "25.1" - :type '(repeat symbol)) + :synchronized t + :package "package") (defcustom package-native-compile nil "Non-nil means to natively compile packages as part of their installation. @@ -1907,22 +1908,15 @@ package--find-non-dependencies unless (memq name dep-list) collect name))) -(defun package--save-selected-packages (&optional value) - "Set and save `package-selected-packages' to VALUE." - (when value - (setq package-selected-packages value)) - (if after-init-time - (customize-save-variable 'package-selected-packages package-selected-packages) - (add-hook 'after-init-hook #'package--save-selected-packages))) - (defun package--user-selected-p (pkg) "Return non-nil if PKG is a package was installed by the user. PKG is a package name. This looks into `package-selected-packages', populating it first if it is still empty." - (unless (consp package-selected-packages) - (package--save-selected-packages (package--find-non-dependencies))) - (memq pkg package-selected-packages)) + (unless (consp (multisession-value package-selected-packages)) + (setf (multisession-value package-selected-packages) + (package--find-non-dependencies))) + (memq pkg (multisession-value package-selected-packages))) (defun package--get-deps (pkgs) (let ((seen '())) @@ -1950,7 +1944,7 @@ package--removable-packages "Return a list of names of packages no longer needed. These are packages which are neither contained in `package-selected-packages' nor a dependency of one that is." - (let ((needed (package--get-deps package-selected-packages))) + (let ((needed (package--get-deps (multisession-value package-selected-packages)))) (cl-loop for p in (mapcar #'car package-alist) unless (or (memq p needed) ;; Do not auto-remove external packages. @@ -2151,8 +2145,8 @@ package-install (package-desc-name pkg) pkg))) (unless (or dont-select (package--user-selected-p name)) - (package--save-selected-packages - (cons name package-selected-packages))) + (setf (multisession-value package-selected-packages) + (cons name (multisession-value package-selected-packages)))) (if-let* ((transaction (if (package-desc-p pkg) (unless (package-installed-p pkg) @@ -2284,8 +2278,8 @@ package-install-from-buffer ;; Install the package itself. (package-unpack pkg-desc) (unless (package--user-selected-p name) - (package--save-selected-packages - (cons name package-selected-packages))) + (setf (multisession-value package-selected-packages) + (cons name (multisession-value package-selected-packages)))) (package--quickstart-maybe-refresh) pkg-desc)) @@ -2317,9 +2311,9 @@ package-install-selected-packages ;; We don't need to populate `package-selected-packages' before ;; using here, because the outcome is the same either way (nothing ;; gets installed). - (if (not package-selected-packages) + (if (not (multisession-value package-selected-packages)) (message "`package-selected-packages' is empty, nothing to install") - (let* ((not-installed (seq-remove #'package-installed-p package-selected-packages)) + (let* ((not-installed (seq-remove #'package-installed-p (multisession-value package-selected-packages))) (available (seq-filter (lambda (p) (assq p package-archive-contents)) not-installed)) (difference (- (length not-installed) (length available)))) (cond @@ -2393,7 +2387,8 @@ package-delete ;; Don't deselect if this is an older version of an ;; upgraded package. (package--newest-p pkg-desc)) - (package--save-selected-packages (remove name package-selected-packages))) + (setf (multisession-value package-selected-packages) + (remove name (multisession-value package-selected-packages)))) (cond ((not (string-prefix-p (file-name-as-directory (expand-file-name package-user-dir)) (expand-file-name dir))) @@ -2485,7 +2480,7 @@ package-autoremove ;; If `package-selected-packages' is nil, it would make no sense to ;; try to populate it here, because then `package-autoremove' will ;; do absolutely nothing. - (when (or package-selected-packages + (when (or (multisession-value package-selected-packages) (yes-or-no-p (format-message "`package-selected-packages' is empty! Really remove ALL packages? "))) @@ -3730,15 +3725,17 @@ package--update-selected-packages ADD and REMOVE must be disjoint lists of package names (or `package-desc' objects) to be added and removed to the selected packages list, respectively." - (dolist (p add) - (cl-pushnew (if (package-desc-p p) (package-desc-name p) p) - package-selected-packages)) - (dolist (p remove) - (setq package-selected-packages - (remove (if (package-desc-p p) (package-desc-name p) p) - package-selected-packages))) - (when (or add remove) - (package--save-selected-packages package-selected-packages))) + (let ((packages (multisession-value package-selected-packages))) + (dolist (p add) + (cl-pushnew (if (package-desc-p p) (package-desc-name p) p) + packages)) + (dolist (p remove) + (setq packages + (remove (if (package-desc-p p) (package-desc-name p) p) + packages))) + (when (or add remove) + (setf (multisession-value package-selected-packages) + packages)))) (defun package-menu-execute (&optional noquery) "Perform marked Package Menu actions. @@ -3797,7 +3794,7 @@ package-menu-execute ;; Packages being upgraded are not marked as selected. (package--update-selected-packages .install .delete) (package-menu--perform-transaction install-list delete-list) - (when package-selected-packages + (when (multisession-value package-selected-packages) (if-let* ((removable (package--removable-packages))) (message "Operation finished. Packages that are no longer needed: %d. Type `%s' to remove them" (length removable) -- 2.37.2.382.g795ea8776b --=-=-=-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 03 05:52:55 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Sep 2022 09:52:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40988 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUPpf-0003JH-DF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 05:52:55 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:45552) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUPpe-0003J4-J8 for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 05:52:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=P2DF+ew/vDO8yoEu13kdUTNU3e83W099i66fF0/ADMY=; b=iHso+qu2Hf2UA0bLlwdbHGmGLQ 5ZdTjFxwSATY2bzOqeIGOUBJnCZAJ/R3GPF1EfJYklLbLrq2MYr8Vc6e/34PDeFQT7ibp7g7rfJF4 FjCNy6rpafrlOoasoJFc5soiZZk1i5xwa/fqq7gxrEIw8ip2L2jAnqhcS9Z9qMcMX0d4=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oUPpV-0006Fx-AO; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 11:52:47 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Robert Pluim Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> (Robert Pluim's message of "Fri, 02 Sep 2022 16:33:52 +0200") References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAG1BMVEWjYJnVRnfUW6S5 PE/SiFNPNkbNprfn19v////QDqkyAAAAAWJLR0QIht6VegAAAAd0SU1FB+YJAwktDtsv08cAAAFz SURBVDjLldO9boMwEADgCxLJbKOSNTYqO5B0rhQegDZ1Z6sSZkUdzOv3sLExhKjKjXzcjzEHO0J4 UtVXvgpAINW5vlL/6CQaISILdV3PkAnh4LwAzHGlEK7lRo+kwig2oDJB7yCxUDwN1cYBCVs1cEAR GOfKxCIjK1muBhs6AJ6V+eBjmZF35qHsFhkIR/t2u4aP1FdaQ+ehDCApjnNG9ACG3wBeglIeGCPk dRsolkqVP7l2pTjFYmnnwWdw/LoEM1S3gHG4EWKl9oseZmpG03hvuuhB9tEMnKbSdtda9J8B8Hzq oXsh70D9A+2jUi08BT32eAhTD+pAG9CuOd4HDTKUEtDMF0WIhW6QCD6DVJfbm/0/Va9w/zhMgMv4 pe0BZRcj/EQWcBGKd4jHbW0Q8DufAHaUmSYXYaKR8Q1yZc8x/g4OcCZsoGTuDphUDsRNfI+1JuAM pmhFc8BJEPJww05g7hEhXC8DByUBHAQEOBngwH9ep/uqWyemngAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUA MjAyMi0wOS0wM1QwOTo0NToxNCswMDowMDzHEP4AAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDkt MDNUMDk6NDU6MTQrMDA6MDBNmqhCAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: The Cure's _Three Imaginary Boys (1)_: "Another Day" Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 11:52:44 +0200 Message-ID: <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Robert Pluim writes: > For values of 'just' that are a little bigger than changing that one > line 😀 😉 Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Robert Pluim writes: > For values of 'just' that are a little bigger than changing that one > line =F0=9F=98=80 =F0=9F=98=89 > rough=CA=BCn=CA=BCready patch attached. Seems to work fine. I=CA=BCve not= tested the > interaction with a .emacs that has package-selected-packages set, but > if I understand multisession variables correctly that will just be > ignored. Hm, yes -- if we do this, we'll end up with all users both having that variable saved in their init file in addition to the multisession storage. Hm. That sounds really confusing. I can also see people running into difficulties when switching between older and newer versions of Emacs, and Emacs becoming very confused. Hm... I don't immediately see any way to make this work seamlessly in a way that's backwards/forwards compatible. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 03 06:18:01 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Sep 2022 10:18:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41022 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUQDx-00068T-1i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 06:18:01 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:37999) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUQDu-000688-NJ for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 06:17:59 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D8CD240101 for <57503@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 12:17:52 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1662200272; bh=hThmcSxTj98bbjuvh/9I7zlNuIxNrpHNA5cJf1jbLys=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=RnFM1qaSMU3e1SuUMuOZwJfLc+90pK/+OQTSjM7zFMrlN1b1mjjaa5XVH85lNI58b W7PSMmxtaYncH9n6ynIE2nbPCIcgN9dICIIuJDkZ4q7k09KvHshiHZ/o2Lu+6XZkyA tkxujMgiDIGK+IdcO/DRzUS7MxkBRYLahnaiqq5Cqq0OimX3H7iJbqCDYW5yKQXpTc xklSifl24LqNyKYPH4uVAoZrhURPNmo93bgSJokP6pbglI6KZ9QJ6eiAor9kFbGNiT h4nqEANrGNjt+maXXrsJIco/Apu9BA9lMI8bKccbzgyjPbRGc5uP5VlNhBgB4JfbRt Hcsjn3rhzwaqA== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4MKW1q1vQyz9rxH; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 12:17:48 +0200 (CEST) From: Philip Kaludercic To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 03 Sep 2022 11:52:44 +0200") References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; prefer-encrypt=nopreference; keydata= mDMEYHHqUhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAp3GdmYJ6tm5McweY6dEvIYIiry+Oz9rU4MH6NHWK0Ee0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiQBBMWCAA4FiEEDM2H44ZoPt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJ CAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQtVrAHPRh1FyTkgEAjlbGPxFchvMbxzAES3r8QLuZgCxeAXunM9gh io0ePtUBALVhh9G6wIoZhl0gUCbQpoN/UJHI08Gm1qDob5zDxnIHuDgEYHHqUhIKKwYBBAGXVQEF AQEHQNcRB+MUimTMqoxxMMUERpOR+Q4b1KgncDZkhrO2ql1tAwEIB4h4BBgWCAAgFiEEDM2H44Zo Pt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwwACgkQtVrAHPRh1Fw1JwD/Qo7kvtib8jy7puyWrSv0MeTS g8qIxgoRWJE/KKdkCLEA/jb9b9/g8nnX+UcwHf/4VfKsjExlnND3FrBviXUW6NcB Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 10:17:43 +0000 Message-ID: <875yi4lq2g.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Robert Pluim X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Robert Pluim writes: > >> For values of 'just' that are a little bigger than changing that one >> line =F0=9F=98=80 > > =F0=9F=98=89 > >> rough=CA=BCn=CA=BCready patch attached. Seems to work fine. I=CA=BCve no= t tested the >> interaction with a .emacs that has package-selected-packages set, but >> if I understand multisession variables correctly that will just be >> ignored. > > Hm, yes -- if we do this, we'll end up with all users both having that > variable saved in their init file in addition to the multisession > storage. Hm. That sounds really confusing. > > I can also see people running into difficulties when switching between > older and newer versions of Emacs, and Emacs becoming very confused. > > Hm... I don't immediately see any way to make this work seamlessly in a > way that's backwards/forwards compatible. What about if we allowed setting `package-selected-packages' to a symbol like 'external, in which case the list would be saved in a file? That way users would have to explicitly opt-in. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 03 08:25:16 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Sep 2022 12:25:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41121 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUSD6-0003Fg-6L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 08:25:16 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:46814) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUSD3-0003FL-Dr for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 08:25:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=N0LhLw6yOB3lwsGap3uzm9ssTSFF6UIW8JOM5SaQvQ8=; b=RSwsVvDOosx5berq04kxrlsMi1 ciEVxSZvfF0GjmBha9vYSr8IvPaVk8kyiy2T/S9JE51qv3kYLkgA90Lpla5Y7NZtAQSwJZsuKS3UH glqZ2iGiO1mvWii6RJZE5J/PtgfqyN1VTmvHe7WRzjLwm2ZRdWSt8ELwn/ll7l76H7so=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oUSCu-0007UL-DH; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 14:25:06 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Philip Kaludercic Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: <875yi4lq2g.fsf@posteo.net> (Philip Kaludercic's message of "Sat, 03 Sep 2022 10:17:43 +0000") References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> <875yi4lq2g.fsf@posteo.net> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAFVBMVEU5bJxudmpRd6e0 upPw7LL18sv///8E9EeWAAAAAWJLR0QGYWa4fQAAAAd0SU1FB+YJAwwXO67+C3YAAAGVSURBVDjL jZJhksIgDIWxJ1iK/m+7J0DoARzDAZwm97/KvqSwxdWdMWOR8vFeEqhz7+PkhsENy2tMhpcD+Q5g dV5GPBhCiosf8VPQO6SUMM4zFEMPZoCxWg3DJ2DpQVfKsnxbjgYmfxA/dsB34GhwUEHb9wRm/w9w Rt4AdfJfn4B5rId4qlZzX/Hk8hU5RgN7Cfuuya0imE62Mho+QIphu9atrXgDkghDNOCfQMAjmz+i B5ywkCi9ACEK9q87xgrOYl6XO14KK7s2wAZkRaZYdNdDAe+AL3sJVBpQKzKFyB0VlD+KBkIDxGcm xHZhI6nmKKwKomIKJMG0/AIxhYGIaeGHy8QUqpWBpHOAlZh7wFkVogoCULLZAfCqTg2gMgXFgGiH CsoW7Ayr1Yo9HShcy+UL85OCq0JWqQ2SNKt9yYIOxXOQdo4E9XULheyiMu3HbimwFv055ZglhnQz hVjnRF5CDLgQfA7RWaMFuQvd/XrTr8tnIK0Kl5AwzfGsNxs4C0cADCqHv4drJKl97J9eSmZ+RPwB v5reFfx5noYAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjItMDktMDNUMTI6MjM6NTkrMDA6MDBGN5sV AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIyLTA5LTAzVDEyOjIzOjU5KzAwOjAwN2ojqQAAAABJRU5E rkJggg== X-Now-Playing: The Cure's _Boys Don't Cry_: "Accuracy" Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 14:25:03 +0200 Message-ID: <87pmgcd4rk.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Philip Kaludercic writes: >> Hm... I don't immediately see any way to make this work seamlessly in a >> way that's backwards/forwards compatible. > > What about if we allowed setting `package-selected-packages' to a symbol > l [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Robert Pluim X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Philip Kaludercic writes: >> Hm... I don't immediately see any way to make this work seamlessly in a >> way that's backwards/forwards compatible. > > What about if we allowed setting `package-selected-packages' to a symbol > like 'external, in which case the list would be saved in a file? That > way users would have to explicitly opt-in. But that would still break things for people who go back to using an older Emacs version. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 03 11:32:34 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Sep 2022 15:32:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42645 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUV8M-0000Bz-2n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 11:32:34 -0400 Received: from mail-oa1-f49.google.com ([209.85.160.49]:44767) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUV8K-0000BO-Nf for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 11:32:33 -0400 Received: by mail-oa1-f49.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-11eab59db71so11831554fac.11 for <57503@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 08:32:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=mU/brt8vvOtGL+rS6xM4Yb/4aNq3xCkQTHdV6wMGxQU=; b=aiac3Vju8I37+FgLV56VetYCIsbpsdtJseRzdAtN7n+pJb9I1RG/jfbQjqaDf27KnW y3M87K8nJ37IE4NdG7D+Etvwkz8nHk6S6xJPrPy3Wr6Kc5pifWBpDl1iNpf8FEFHAhIq 2PA8dzJl46C9Fefg7BtcxBwcg9rGUFg8kf0B26Krt5QrJvXwhSCfMt4a4gtI91/jKXan PQ+w2c7JN1UfG2VhaTP/V4C4ndlYBWVyAhv3PjxsBRUQ34uYO0iJwyerHPpuxuBtJ8Z7 8aNocBXU9b2Uy2RxcrFVQSlHrnI30PrQD95UQdhP2PUXdJbDBjLl+4Vdpxvdn/cU2kc+ UByg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=mU/brt8vvOtGL+rS6xM4Yb/4aNq3xCkQTHdV6wMGxQU=; b=KDzTV454LmngdogvwA5VwD6gp+YDrb6SCZMJqaYSXRvO7V4TxRwDSC9ZgoyPh5Xb6v V+j/w9+ex3C6BV5d4NH+S+Z2BpSavrOYkyq5Zqj7LAYKIbSTGcIU15VWV0G/3h7epM7b H+UrMPlYQAa+POtfqdc5FoYlMUeBrhXqZEmS5N8iWA27Vs1AMMlV8Imh3YIZPE6rTRsV U0rIVh+qZYpA5JLbrxFRzRGEt2TZC3E2Imgyd6SL2tjHtNDJB462Ziem9gRvkBq309ir 6hSfiG+1EDDRt8bHtq9rdJo47fUHL6b9PadB9FxWM0gNejx83uRTZ74cyvuXBDCkTYP2 rEUQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo1wFUAVdLP742fJcguJz4+STgNOGyLNTQj5OcMugopGzUFDS29y BIq9vWl1WpSXCCIrzlPQbJ2Zt2j4btBKuyvopcA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR5IeOCDeRP2J9bNUf4gi3cAejwwu4IlUz0wH3cOHCbKqWAmUVNF34FjtXTD5fd8r63LM0iymBCtAGrneWeqcos= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1688:b0:345:ea9a:2954 with SMTP id bb8-20020a056808168800b00345ea9a2954mr4174422oib.199.1662219146947; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 08:32:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 08:32:26 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> X-Hashcash: 1:20:220903:rpluim@gmail.com::Soz2nMrWBVy7U94i:3MAB MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 08:32:26 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Robert Pluim Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Hm... I don't immediately see any way to make this work seamlessly in a > way that's backwards/forwards compatible. How about something like this: - Keep the old defcustom, and add a new multisession variable. - If the old variable exists, use it. Otherwise the new one. - Add a new command that "upgrades" the variable into a multisession variable. Make it say that it will break things on Emacs < 29. Don't run it automatically. - In Emacs version N (e.g., 5 major versions from now?), upgrade any user automatically, without prompting, and make the defcustom obsolete. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 03 11:34:05 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Sep 2022 15:34:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42658 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUV9o-0000Fx-R1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 11:34:05 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:3102) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUV9n-0000FJ-37 for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 11:34:03 -0400 Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id A3D5580343; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 11:33:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 1A8A780470; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 11:33:56 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1662219236; bh=ZKqqiQWzOQ9STdb6hx7e0lSuUxTvOgMIvgA598UWu4Y=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=JePDj8I0eEynySL4BV67SpAg0OvyZNy81O58bASF3wTkCypv6JL6DwSJP8VHCnM8V tXYQlClzuXj+vkekQmnIVN6+Y8CEEvBguIrg+2DN0NOFLMW8kt+UVu++AUZdgF/iwo wFP8s7ZccpmTcYafTax5iq/+QAzXG0U5ZUT0ruH/1MwfiOfzf+K2/92VAqHnMq/JOJ by9jxggDLqbc7NIQCAwliDGtmzkR6Ll9oAxCH0BG09IG9tHIvMDWzD7baESbwe53T2 V2logmnDyCYoTGhGdtDRx+oL2aqlqFq3IGhD0pnLH8AD5RA53evbJi8LBsLa9doKxq 2wxkh4fO3skaQ== Received: from pastel (unknown [157.52.9.190]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D7CD6120809; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 11:33:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Joost Kremers Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> (Joost Kremers's message of "Wed, 31 Aug 2022 14:43:43 +0200") Message-ID: References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 11:33:54 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.067 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE -0.01 - X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: 57503@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > The variable `package-selected-packages` should not be saved to the > users init file (or whatever `custom-file` points to). Yet, for some use cases it should. So maybe we need to introduce a custom variable to choose whether it is saved as a normal user config or not. Stefan From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 04 06:53:02 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Sep 2022 10:53:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43505 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUnFN-00077S-PR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 06:53:02 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:56536) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oUnFL-000778-3P for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 06:52:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=HTJMMnS7kHJGc1Uy1oWgAhlJsCdEygStOUBXhBV2W2Q=; b=pDowuG1RQX6OId2uBkfc3lU1Nw RArUKudPMnen8+KXwGKwe2icKBcWeYW0j2PWHDk3QatfcocdVq4X6Z3BUsPyIYbHLw1Pw8BgLp+WF /ougNotkp71E96MBeCCpFnHqS7vQGKINfhagngfgB5Q3Zu3XcSBn/aIGzjvavW73FayE=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oUnFB-0000Za-Dd; Sun, 04 Sep 2022 12:52:51 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Sat, 3 Sep 2022 08:32:26 -0700") References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEX+/v7v7unt6+Xn 5t////+66/vLAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+YJBAokKEdxa5MAAAAaSURBVDjLY2AYBaNg FIwCYgCjsgAuGTq5AAAfPQA2VnN/dwAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0wOS0wNFQxMDoz Njo0MCswMDowMKUHh+IAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDktMDRUMTA6MzY6NDArMDA6 MDDUWj9eAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: The Beatles's _The Beatles (1)_: "I'm So Tired" Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2022 12:52:47 +0200 Message-ID: <871qsrbedc.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > - Keep the old defcustom, and add a new multisession variable. > > - If the old variable exists, use it. Otherwise the new one. > > - Add a new command that "upgrades" the variable into a multisessi [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Robert Pluim , Philip Kaludercic X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Kangas writes: > - Keep the old defcustom, and add a new multisession variable. > > - If the old variable exists, use it. Otherwise the new one. > > - Add a new command that "upgrades" the variable into a multisession > variable. Make it say that it will break things on Emacs < 29. Don't > run it automatically. > > - In Emacs version N (e.g., 5 major versions from now?), upgrade any > user automatically, without prompting, and make the defcustom > obsolete. Hm... I think this has the disadvantage that it both requires user intervention, but in addition it'll force you into one usage pattern or another at some point. I think perhaps Stefan M's suggestion of adding a new user option to control the behaviour here is the only practical way forward. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 03:37:21 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 07:37:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46324 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oV6fZ-0001ol-Cy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 03:37:21 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f44.google.com ([209.85.221.44]:34638) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oV6fW-0001oW-Fp for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 03:37:20 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f44.google.com with SMTP id e13so10135884wrm.1 for <57503@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 00:37:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=LapEDCfgbL0mKSJeHoNrHNmu7pAFDcorSDdTAMOcV8I=; b=RJyVvb1Kkr5l9gSrTsbhQbOnMm6YbqAwy/Uu8fQjpv1ip2I0pmIJ7slnn87nM4wmK6 n7Ehv+KDGdfIS+y5XXpz5/xrm+RHC4yVI7ufWHS2SPhZxA2NzbV57hVYC9yCrxH6IPRL 3JV4jc2Q73ZYH1ZfoJWAKxpLxZWNIJ9nKGhxKSck1QSakUSa2fbjTiR3aola4NG8PIHy tenWPMGLKU4km7da0XpkD/9tf/6zpiZc0wszyi97fWVXhq0nj4C0Db70lKUdwd5akBhM k5oK+xyyfSMg37/HeH43GEvg+wjD8h+h6iSBwQsVnv3RRLJkq/GCPGEFNLT1qiQHQHFE x64w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date; bh=LapEDCfgbL0mKSJeHoNrHNmu7pAFDcorSDdTAMOcV8I=; b=aUnhxGpjqV3Joa9egWQ699ZW8h0vUbNbwMTO8rRM8j/KGueGKonbNcGwH5pM+23OcN /EiQpWBBF6RWO2zmZKyLmenyQWOzIQAQx297Ll74LuzWANUXKs8ICZKHLE56ZBoykJ6v swCfVNX3kX/FzWxVX64sUHJe0AbNoxbFzsr9lOuOYdO51/griaAvdy4tgKatwwuegCHm I4VevTxu2UsXImW7Qv2B7BCfpnrjltrzjEUXeM3O1Wg0t1wtfxvxdaKvuuNPnGOLmpWm VYn4HhzA4wCEgfLG8J9yEjiTTltuVQ8F8SgXgvXQOs6dETfxaL0RlENMTyay46CbOL37 qYOw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo3nmWrvig3o6as/IKy2QA5RwnmjdWx1gjLQCQ+63GFnGqwLz5Zo PMuc2caA56tMpeALsiIPjy4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR4WVBgsY+afEYsLqTxKyk/YFBsMaWSqvcfvXNOitHTfXohtXSQWk7mH34HswZtv9zbpPHGSeQ== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:64a9:0:b0:225:66ef:be9d with SMTP id m9-20020a5d64a9000000b0022566efbe9dmr23461152wrp.604.1662363432213; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 00:37:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rltb ([2a01:e0a:3f3:fb50:d449:3613:7ca5:e93f]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bk16-20020a0560001d9000b002258235bda3sm8030923wrb.61.2022.09.05.00.37.11 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 05 Sep 2022 00:37:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: <871qsrbedc.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 04 Sep 2022 12:52:47 +0200") References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> <871qsrbedc.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 09:37:10 +0200 Message-ID: <877d2iff15.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic , Stefan Kangas X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Sun, 04 Sep 2022 12:52:47 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen said: Lars> Stefan Kangas writes: >> - Keep the old defcustom, and add a new multisession variable. >>=20 >> - If the old variable exists, use it. Otherwise the new one. >>=20 >> - Add a new command that "upgrades" the variable into a multisession >> variable. Make it say that it will break things on Emacs < 29. Don= 't >> run it automatically. >>=20 >> - In Emacs version N (e.g., 5 major versions from now?), upgrade any >> user automatically, without prompting, and make the defcustom >> obsolete. Lars> Hm... I think this has the disadvantage that it both requires us= er Lars> intervention, but in addition it'll force you into one usage patt= ern or Lars> another at some point. Lars> I think perhaps Stefan M's suggestion of adding a new user option= to Lars> control the behaviour here is the only practical way forward. I=CA=BCm not convinced that=CA=BCs necessary. I just did the following: 1. emacs-29+my patch, install some packages =3D> no package-selected-packag= es setting 2. emacs-28, run `package-list-packages=CA=BC =3D> package-selected-packages is populated with packages set in step 1, and saved in .emacs 3. emacs-28, install some packages 4. emacs-29+my-patch, `package-list-packages=CA=BC, error because it now has a setting for package-selected-packages, which means we need to call the multisession variable something different. I fixed that, and the packages installed in step 3 show up [1] So for the small number of people going backwards from emacs-29, the problem fixes itself, and we can document that, and for people going forwards to emacs-29 and staying there is no manual intervention needed. Robert Footnotes: [1] We can now argue about what to call that variable. I went for `package-selected-packages-ms=CA=BC for now --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 07:16:37 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 11:16:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46561 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVA5l-0003PP-Fi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:16:37 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:39238) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVA5i-0003PA-PY for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:16:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Un6PncXIRPWxxSS1amPr6oYZFRSn3yt1wWZsdpweUaU=; b=lbQu3sQWBEVaPL9suswLBMJKW8 tHBGtuG+/CwowS85zhtkhGZCeVGmmZkJwENWAvMR0XUfKNHcMpBRDltSV/CRf+shLLYVzYbmNrvSm FEg8qUXDyNVHWtEDoqNupLf+m+xrKkEkG1ylho+zh7bRNQGcIbsARYf+IUMqBDEY8AS8=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oVA5Z-0000uU-8O; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 13:16:27 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Robert Pluim Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: <877d2iff15.fsf@gmail.com> (Robert Pluim's message of "Mon, 05 Sep 2022 09:37:10 +0200") References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> <871qsrbedc.fsf@gnus.org> <877d2iff15.fsf@gmail.com> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAIVBMVEUZOVkkSW0lXI8x da4eGRhChb4aRXSzvtBTeKFLRUj///+QzAhbAAAAAWJLR0QKaND0VgAAAAd0SU1FB+YJBQsICPxQ LacAAAGZSURBVDjLjdNLTsMwEAbg8FzHFa1gV8YliB2NFXEBS5R1ZIVl24UPgIQcTkAOUAn1tsx4 xkkKosKLyOMv/9iJkizjcaKU0iXcSmmtLOdKTbSpDagk8apo6Mq5utzkDOepjdqaJgRnCpUyKQBV COGdIB+D95og1LDJxwnvt7ph8L5fP8F1BPc5gOzjGShhCu/XmezjI8ATQYngszwmLgVWLXQCfOQZ rxerNrQM603cOgIArELX3jOs41lnMUCAYx77MnAnKCzB+WmUHjAwfwn4IHbbRzYzhsVz2123dlt4 IZXgBTshYFOB1Mp+CQBvQwmqFgOAPKWKxeI59AACMII4h6Ig4Pmc4E0SQDDh6ePXKIGSSQCWhwDZ 5C+IV12a8jO8N63VY9CGRte51w+rsUhgeLjXEBBwVjJoAfp8GKJkKWBcQ8BzghQwZrnf7wQwMwKz s9amEjLzD7jZDVD+G/riKODPh7+fqR4Qqh9QO8dwd9DK8YhAd/2CPYI7AkOraoDpAYgJ1Az9a+dT TftTwSAEFyPo6Qrf7lmCb/LTBE2q2S9hAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIyLTA5LTA1VDEx OjA4OjA4KzAwOjAw5nfZ2QAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0wOS0wNVQxMTowODowOCsw MDowMJcqYWUAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: King Crimson's _USA_: "Exiles" Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 13:16:24 +0200 Message-ID: <878rmy3wc7.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Robert Pluim writes: > Iʼm not convinced thatʼs necessary. I just did the following: > > 1. emacs-29+my patch, install some packages => no package-selected-packages > setting > 2. emacs-28, run `package-list-packagesʼ [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic , Stefan Kangas X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Robert Pluim writes: > I=CA=BCm not convinced that=CA=BCs necessary. I just did the following: > > 1. emacs-29+my patch, install some packages =3D> no package-selected-pack= ages > setting > 2. emacs-28, run `package-list-packages=CA=BC =3D> package-selected-packa= ges > is populated with packages set in step 1, and saved in .emacs Oh, I didn't know that it was automatically recreated. Then what's the point of the variable? According to the doc string: --- Store here packages installed explicitly by user. --- Does 2) there get that right, or does it contain all packages installed, explicitly or not? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 07:51:09 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 11:51:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46650 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAdB-0006Tc-Gp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:51:09 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f50.google.com ([209.85.221.50]:40483) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVAd9-0006TL-Ew for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 07:51:08 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f50.google.com with SMTP id b16so11018796wru.7 for <57503@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 04:51:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=1VtvM8rreVCukSFL+rbxwQYfkl2n4A7ZbC1mCs0ljF4=; b=TtmaRlfHGhivRaUGbkPnvfM3lEQEQZmD9CxLZ1We2uEws6XzyH/H7sYDYA5GLr74Y6 XUlwvGQRbkOgT6i68muZCOjac0WB3RFwejdAE9ZeyodFclcx92XfZOW7dMMnwdNwdTZm LWu6DKxbA2a5e6/A6p5j/2LwcIuAvRfghKunzpC6pwtRUyxvx5GgS/rBRlV3aLqUO8+R 348CL1ENYF93ZVkZvGrnd3MJXis/wEU7MCCqDmfH233Xx+MmAizHRwcffGJ0AH5QfL4H UYj0tctYDWAkJD+Lj6Eikmg8D3uSxhb40FRtjx7gPI+Ht6ER5V6Y6C+jOvjIfKiD6hNs HTGQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date; bh=1VtvM8rreVCukSFL+rbxwQYfkl2n4A7ZbC1mCs0ljF4=; b=p4phY1lOHwD8+lDMm3qJLCFbtQbEOE9SBXHRy9zaYaq4HUI+u+SsmBMQ4yKC1hU71/ c8kge+fqO5p327a8cxsXl83UEFEwv/DNAg1I7Y5jAsoPyOKiIcScM0bPZh7Yc1FJ14ax c1wkVhPdlmWq+GVtcNZDeG869mEMev1rt/mxJSEmz0Xg1iBNgH84HwF+PyLfJKHTGlcT 10H+N4UQjeKula58QGp0l7X53DeZ324rgUfEpOvu8QwqyLU3Iz6x3w2SsKHu6KfRZmbM +ux9zg/nKcBAu90gjincLBVm3LkprDx3xMlQlDArv6ni0VXwoeiid5rrlBfxDs2rCC2v s7xQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo2PW7kCwzvrGJ7LqaxHH9JoiOr36tJRLD1TSmRsIwZcT+J1gmw2 9FdyvETUie8rB9M7OwhSYVM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR5LCf7rFDyVu8J/+DM2t6lBqxJSv85sJk1+qA6HMrUO+NkZqSwWQlXOwV+a41nVmeRrB9zB2Q== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f4cf:0:b0:228:63bd:da33 with SMTP id h15-20020adff4cf000000b0022863bdda33mr4073688wrp.181.1662378661429; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 04:51:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rltb ([2a01:e0a:3f3:fb50:d449:3613:7ca5:e93f]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v10-20020a05600c15ca00b003a5dadcf1a8sm10265675wmf.19.2022.09.05.04.51.00 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 05 Sep 2022 04:51:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: <878rmy3wc7.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 05 Sep 2022 13:16:24 +0200") References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> <871qsrbedc.fsf@gnus.org> <877d2iff15.fsf@gmail.com> <878rmy3wc7.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 13:51:00 +0200 Message-ID: <87tu5mdopn.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic , Stefan Kangas X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 13:16:24 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen said: Lars> Robert Pluim writes: >> I=CA=BCm not convinced that=CA=BCs necessary. I just did the followi= ng: >>=20 >> 1. emacs-29+my patch, install some packages =3D> no package-selected= -packages >> setting >> 2. emacs-28, run `package-list-packages=CA=BC =3D> package-selected-= packages >> is populated with packages set in step 1, and saved in .emacs Lars> Oh, I didn't know that it was automatically recreated. Then what= 's the Lars> point of the variable? According to the doc string: I guess reading a variable is faster than recursing over the elpa directory. Lars> --- Lars> Store here packages installed explicitly by user. Lars> --- Lars> Does 2) there get that right, or does it contain all packages ins= talled, Lars> explicitly or not? It contains the packages I installed using 'i' in list-packages, but not their automatically installed dependencies. Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 09:14:39 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 13:14:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46819 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVBvu-0000Gc-G9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 09:14:39 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f44.google.com ([209.85.221.44]:43605) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVBvo-0000GK-SS for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 09:14:32 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f44.google.com with SMTP id t7so6292015wrm.10 for <57503@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 06:14:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=7yZhdFOrRABIm7FyYL1pqR1bdJtGmpplgH9VDpsd8ss=; b=CwaJas2dwslmXLv6zeFIN0cKm1p1V/It8empVfc4t7kDJP4UVIHRrDpVYDtwP0lTfA foA+QI/JTFx5SLH1qEX0PbowMAA5QN6hYE6v8IIQlNyQ2b1vf/G+7sYn4vii+gUr9aow ATAWI9ytsjIT+OIdd9kezg5wh9CuCH8iSHNQoNDR60Pr44zjZFeXjdJk4nReGn+RSAk0 ESdXL8DeRYSuHog0A+JjkdPZ6/Vn1C0Bto9HkIjXBSl/zcO2xo8blYkTiNtFkdlYiCYJ kQKdZCY6eDh36tydxkH5L6lpSRCrVshfFtE+rgPnnDR1rCfzr8TdPaHGOuPzrLGmAKiY vqTw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date; bh=7yZhdFOrRABIm7FyYL1pqR1bdJtGmpplgH9VDpsd8ss=; b=i8zlxueeIbB0OP/513U2NcoP2NllKDUg4dq42znERLSWme0dFttQR6CWIUFPNOoh31 jRiSlVHfVMblOhEhP1YfZzZneqCEBZy6od6k3Mrn8c0bfYUCj02gMS+nwfXLKOl8APsR RgG7ZULctlNVwy1iP2pzzrw/HMN+adiEzVSA7LC+B7PyEVQAG6SgkyXXUOBHo2sssK5c 8gJFDuzX74p8gzJ2bCMJTaY+OpCZdPjKJMsj3t4sXR2pToeH3BKE1s+Q3eqII4ERzMp9 W+sRwqQnbAzv+3KMXd9cVo53GINWU1f1difVlMuk7D1saALSPyGlCTS7sNKkYibMwXxY 1axA== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo3sdN9RhoF4MCWQGTc2LY2RQN9TTGb7keTTRy5aBFiLzamJXFAv 94BjN6QFo+OlLBJ4FFyyJYg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR5agtcn9K3PEXhmPQBqYi+WART2n4sdNkv0U8CJYW3Hd96z7ISgXk/8rbzoDw79A4XMVG2mdA== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f909:0:b0:225:c35:8242 with SMTP id b9-20020adff909000000b002250c358242mr23973810wrr.550.1662383663001; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 06:14:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rltb ([2a01:e0a:3f3:fb50:d449:3613:7ca5:e93f]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d14-20020a05600c34ce00b003a5f54e3bbbsm17539554wmq.38.2022.09.05.06.14.22 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 05 Sep 2022 06:14:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: <87tu5mdopn.fsf@gmail.com> (Robert Pluim's message of "Mon, 05 Sep 2022 13:51:00 +0200") References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> <871qsrbedc.fsf@gnus.org> <877d2iff15.fsf@gmail.com> <878rmy3wc7.fsf@gnus.org> <87tu5mdopn.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 15:14:21 +0200 Message-ID: <87h71mdkuq.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic , Stefan Kangas X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 13:51:00 +0200, Robert Pluim s= aid: >>>>> On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 13:16:24 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen said: Lars> Robert Pluim writes: >>> I=CA=BCm not convinced that=CA=BCs necessary. I just did the follow= ing: >>>=20 >>> 1. emacs-29+my patch, install some packages =3D> no package-selecte= d-packages >>> setting >>> 2. emacs-28, run `package-list-packages=CA=BC =3D> package-selected= -packages >>> is populated with packages set in step 1, and saved in .emacs Lars> Oh, I didn't know that it was automatically recreated. Then what= 's the Lars> point of the variable? According to the doc string: Of course one use case that breaks is to do emacs-29->emacs-28, *delete* some packages, and then go back to emacs-29, which will pick up the old multi-session value. I guess we could change emacs-29 to refresh the multi-session value every time you run `list-packages'. Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 05 15:05:10 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Sep 2022 19:05:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48886 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVHPB-0001PH-Of for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 15:05:09 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:43026) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVHP6-0001Od-0o for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 15:05:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=FV0LsRfWbBQwgTKApB8L5tt37yijvKpR4WNDuEoFpTk=; b=BfmT6numAm/GypNQ5t4worcseu U47Wo/UWWpZR+Chbc22X2369O45qGDBm/oBSfxEscCuvoEWhVyDQijP0bsHVUpQRvL2sOXK/VdR83 WznJ4nn/CvY40+DB09B4J9yARNlhqFIWuUA//OrWEYjkX4Js1WzFUq9dSIVjWREdjRhM=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oVHOx-0004TP-9R; Mon, 05 Sep 2022 21:04:57 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Robert Pluim Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: <87h71mdkuq.fsf@gmail.com> (Robert Pluim's message of "Mon, 05 Sep 2022 15:14:21 +0200") References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> <871qsrbedc.fsf@gnus.org> <877d2iff15.fsf@gmail.com> <878rmy3wc7.fsf@gnus.org> <87tu5mdopn.fsf@gmail.com> <87h71mdkuq.fsf@gmail.com> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEW7koWpY1g9LSj/ //9TFiqWAAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+YJBRMCC42DZl8AAAFXSURBVCjPTdKxbsMgEAbg nyhk6NShqVQ/QAc/hS3Fnd2IsxT2DOVBOrtSbKmZMoQo3FP2DttV2D7gDrgDBoDhaaBpDSzzmEFk nKD/Vrwdrdswx9oLul9yhcz+rDyD08F5Ddi3HhLr3nOuthDEWGQkXeGkOGs2nZOY1C2QER/B9IDU RU4LwjiE84x78UFhnHG1jQnXCeliGoTTjN7sUAz/AIo5JvYWeBoWELC2yEffI2ldEBuNOTjoiLVi M60kc/ACV8EYUL2X52y4wloKWNdSNp+AFwNT70yQyz1PqCCQ3E63Vfngk5XstmonbNsJQW8UKkHd zu1pt7BDP4NeYd2yQh6fVe5iklt4ULW2CuKVttFtBV/ECKBA+rw0Mgp43SGjU3R8XVAKcjekDhmD T2X+EqWktockHyFwX2JotkdtzE2MgSheTQbji7qBC/1Jl1LOyTW9dZzCH00GAuZzseXwAAAAJXRF WHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIyLTA5LTA1VDE5OjAyOjExKzAwOjAw8mTfMAAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpt b2RpZnkAMjAyMi0wOS0wNVQxOTowMjoxMSswMDowMIM5Z4wAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: The Rolling Stones's _Black and Blue_: "Melody" Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 21:04:52 +0200 Message-ID: <87edwp1w2z.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Robert Pluim writes: > Lars> Oh, I didn't know that it was automatically recreated. Then > Lars> what's the > Lars> point of the variable? According to the doc string: So it just caches data to speed things up, I guess? Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic , Stefan Kangas X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Robert Pluim writes: > Lars> Oh, I didn't know that it was automatically recreated. Then > Lars> what's the > Lars> point of the variable? According to the doc string: So it just caches data to speed things up, I guess? > Of course one use case that breaks is to do > > emacs-29->emacs-28, *delete* some packages, and then go back to > emacs-29, which will pick up the old multi-session value. > > I guess we could change emacs-29 to refresh the multi-session value > every time you run `list-packages'. Hm. Or... refresh the value if the .emacs.d/elpa directory has fresher contents than the multisession variable, but I don't know whether that's faster. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 06 04:18:14 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2022 08:18:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49503 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVTmg-0005HK-Al for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 04:18:14 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f47.google.com ([209.85.221.47]:38494) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVTmd-0005H6-Q4 for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 04:18:13 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f47.google.com with SMTP id b5so14234032wrr.5 for <57503@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 01:18:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=HLcN6e4npMg4y9plhDkEBN5c5PkPiFYJQNjwnTkYgy4=; b=YQ0qb2jmNJ1tff6paJQw+Sm/TvqGiMN65n/9WXeb+IfwIoMyrOi4v+qbG0RP4DDUgL NWgCd9+sZcYc/Zhh24Zz1aX20zl2JnAEqa8dNBQK7+v9al75OJeJ108PiNlOI2O7wzc9 ce07Z+vgJV61OjHXtyB/ojddrjLtWtbKPZlBGOeha73g05Jv0kfK6GhhM4mB8K22Hy14 RuTZfSkiJRyWZQz85RyQVzV3yeyA216Zbovg3e1l3pGHpIF9CrUQ9HByGSzltLKb84HA 23Uc/msjtPPR2QUKnj6UMxEIPtc6JwS7COGD2z5fXVkZLI/yfU2kNBHcNriUKMzgG5dg 9Irw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=HLcN6e4npMg4y9plhDkEBN5c5PkPiFYJQNjwnTkYgy4=; b=Z2pY5Yi4O9dPakszeaUhoH994kmGAjqdV+pX7zIuFaKoONFQ0uWMHVhADUUZABGsth XY+6i1irk5OpybZduVrAmn+zfCxv65uzNLvRiHfbaQFbhCQQCVO9btB3XlKglSx0jbte jpSJgys5COP1VLNfY9ipapR6Y/g8nubLwrVh8UDNCGqBdPfGt7NV6HFcihMJ0bNBm3zM jIVRj1yeTsTbW5J6g3DvqhhWiKcVuTRuf0k3E10kAwx521w3QBstmJRConAV5NkIkuRr JxveHrg4isVVjxwxo/k75fcldbDLz/iflkqpV49vspyA6qjpVm2s/5sOqcm36ep+jcBn it+A== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo3eR8cOmxF+T1RaU1cDOmU13+pLXfNdCGma5sXxzFhZLAhlgR6d 3bo2XT5AirEqQrBWcdf63tw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR5waHJXMMzhvoepg+k6TVQkCeHECjGoMJ0SsCRDrd3ZaVzXOqMzxjhTfpJTc5xe7aFepsp5Jw== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4e88:0:b0:228:c8ed:2af8 with SMTP id e8-20020a5d4e88000000b00228c8ed2af8mr3138730wru.412.1662452285716; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 01:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rltb ([2a01:e0a:3f3:fb50:f116:dbc2:98c7:dbf1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f6-20020adff586000000b00228c375d81bsm4276581wro.2.2022.09.06.01.18.04 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 06 Sep 2022 01:18:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: <87edwp1w2z.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 05 Sep 2022 21:04:52 +0200") References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> <871qsrbedc.fsf@gnus.org> <877d2iff15.fsf@gmail.com> <878rmy3wc7.fsf@gnus.org> <87tu5mdopn.fsf@gmail.com> <87h71mdkuq.fsf@gmail.com> <87edwp1w2z.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2022 10:18:03 +0200 Message-ID: <87wnagdih0.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic , Stefan Kangas X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Mon, 05 Sep 2022 21:04:52 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen said: >> Of course one use case that breaks is to do >> emacs-29-> emacs-28, *delete* some packages, and then go back to >> emacs-29, which will pick up the old multi-session value. >> >> I guess we could change emacs-29 to refresh the multi-session value >> every time you run `list-packages'. Lars> Hm. Or... refresh the value if the .emacs.d/elpa directory has fresher Lars> contents than the multisession variable, but I don't know whether that's Lars> faster. How do we define 'fresher'? Anyway, if in doubt, use brute force: (define-multisession-variable package-selected-packages-ms (package--find-non-dependencies)) works fine. We could even condition it on `package-selected-packages' being non-nil. Robert -- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 06 06:34:18 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2022 10:34:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49667 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVVuJ-00031d-5r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 06:34:18 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:55172) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVVuD-00031I-Vn for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 06:34:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=3mXunRYhnqnLGBgfUGenB8JUiyi0SB3k/oG5+mZ38HA=; b=VhRriv0AqLGa7f2H4evsNhFsgw PRHAROcTjMc0SKOsBDHMcUmPiePdc1fLylhzlrAyDIdIUYZ0ynXOUyNHQMoNHmVdGN15Vkl0qu4Ui wdeJwNIMXCA8RlpNlsjIzFDSLg6paKUNyScxYUqsufitjhP8DzxSrUuFjELbgE08lSMU=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oVVu4-0003ZF-Iq; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 12:34:03 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Robert Pluim Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: <87wnagdih0.fsf@gmail.com> (Robert Pluim's message of "Tue, 06 Sep 2022 10:18:03 +0200") References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> <871qsrbedc.fsf@gnus.org> <877d2iff15.fsf@gmail.com> <878rmy3wc7.fsf@gnus.org> <87tu5mdopn.fsf@gmail.com> <87h71mdkuq.fsf@gmail.com> <87edwp1w2z.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnagdih0.fsf@gmail.com> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEXOZUE5Hxnpl1nq vHL32qX////Xoiv6AAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+YJBgoYIn5eM/kAAAGxSURBVDjLbZON keMwCIURSQHSXgMcSgEeSAE7a/Vf0z30E8s7x0xshU8gHshE3Qp+IsREqRTaTatVda1e0wVUAgC5 utXlzQEkVrW6xz/VBZC+A3ufyMNCdxPk93nAL/awWd/dGuxE6qhEf/lbO4iYrwJgz9b8DYIl6w5O /9H3eb4Qw5ubGLpJ+Hi179guHUXhjGcmpVcTlvAHmIEpkteTwjvBaECJhTWcsA6JZ8pds2oTjZcM IFRglNgfODzKGhUJCfw5ZaXnaVHT1auIKLkSiuoHfJSUMdCvM3/fAGPSL5P0bB5lxex7a/oVeB6W o48REo2MaXfw56eyAxh6EyEYNHZEWc3DbLU21qgPIV+G9bstFX3XlMgAti5DBzKVPPyMTMoLLIkg R+8tdtbZ4zRItQV8FjH8JX9Atb5coOTpDx1mIukGaACU+/FDzozocneQr1SufVCL8ABckWn3R64O vOrfGGzZIsZV6KUugYVWVfjOdj8vfXRpS3dQbe7ugx/6ho4ZkUe/PsIRMQ+dHf4voAHGCFWvbkQI 6/yY3cpGQvcCxwbQl9wvFT6jGwgtPC7JP8qmWOXIOGwBAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIy LTA5LTA2VDEwOjI0OjM0KzAwOjAwGVaAdgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0wOS0wNlQx MDoyNDozNCswMDowMGgLOMoAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: David Bowie's _Low_: "Warszawa" Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2022 12:34:00 +0200 Message-ID: <87ilm0vlk7.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Robert Pluim writes: > How do we define 'fresher'? I left that as an exercise for the reader. 🫠 Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic , Stefan Kangas X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Robert Pluim writes: > How do we define 'fresher'? I left that as an exercise for the reader. =F0=9F=AB=A0=20=20 > Anyway, if in doubt, use brute force: > > (define-multisession-variable package-selected-packages-ms > (package--find-non-dependencies)) > > works fine. We could even condition it on `package-selected-packages' > being non-nil. Hm... I wonder whether we could just drop the variable altogether. That is, checking for freshness sounds like as much work as recalculating the variable. What are the actual effects of the variable? That is, what code is it supposed to speed up? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 06 09:49:39 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2022 13:49:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50200 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVYxP-0000sC-Fl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 09:49:39 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f44.google.com ([209.85.221.44]:44761) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVYxM-0000ru-Oy for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 09:49:38 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f44.google.com with SMTP id c11so11333511wrp.11 for <57503@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 06:49:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=9Ini+siwY+NZ2dscKo9CVeJ/lqgbJ5WL4lRhRXv6xMo=; b=OR7NncrHQatCxBX2q9TwM/0xtc9JfcBWzYrwTBzyw2w/dzVDxpkgXuc7Q1yf9OYI2M Awz4YMGICrUgDnvWlgk9bozPwgbic7dKyAOlqFjdNA+2RHSVZjZ58QRpspKi4ACXSQye h35GgtaGHDzJb+wZEPqKdNKTZxn/AEwX9Tex/RMw/TU2UGD9mSu0DRlzgbDTHm1LVPY3 TMp8DY37yj6Ehwaa4xQyqWhuWEglHQAvW4CF+6a4gj4SVyM7FiHZRvKeYiMYdlUMJ3GZ 9UHtRA0DOvXOuDsKKLIe8ryaXThfkqRUqGusDjR0H61I/BsLqemL2N5fFlRUxYATAMYm 3jyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date; bh=9Ini+siwY+NZ2dscKo9CVeJ/lqgbJ5WL4lRhRXv6xMo=; b=Xrdnqrdl6ymTMKsTHiXFnt0L5NOVgb6zA0IuuVHUew0+TcGKO3IQxwYDk9npNdsS8d ewTl+CBlVPFRFeCLg6FcxG8RZP0Z2OWZj2kpCRH9tOpC/LFNEHzevzzD5c3hYtDF9pF/ BRd2/6GNJXl+1C3EWIWB4JIi+IcxZW1Hyx+V2/RlFeZcwAtHTmgdR4hw0tx/Jt4yrSly eMEPg3LBoAfQBVB4rjcU4s/Cg6ojMSwpF/nXqx177IDcRGbprAjUGdQPJv3BWURwWd1P SVbmUnHZ6XU5IsjOxIOQWSd043siXbzGxMnqgay35arqHdpQ8xS2oHJqRh1Rnz4wj49M jVSg== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo2vukw5XFReV4NIQrbMzRQOe4mVDoSw5PoDAc+rsEUHobkWp3dp Y7c/xE2AlmV4Z3x6KyYTa5M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR5mb93Brb1CW1MjhW/ZQxK27ezLagCyBktQGBEpOpaJQ2vgrhNGS732akJZmZONLxESEshMxA== X-Received: by 2002:adf:dd0e:0:b0:226:df82:dd5d with SMTP id a14-20020adfdd0e000000b00226df82dd5dmr22802260wrm.672.1662472170921; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 06:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rltb ([2a01:e0a:3f3:fb50:f116:dbc2:98c7:dbf1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u9-20020a05600c19c900b003a53731f273sm16012649wmq.31.2022.09.06.06.49.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 06 Sep 2022 06:49:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: <87ilm0vlk7.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 06 Sep 2022 12:34:00 +0200") References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> <871qsrbedc.fsf@gnus.org> <877d2iff15.fsf@gmail.com> <878rmy3wc7.fsf@gnus.org> <87tu5mdopn.fsf@gmail.com> <87h71mdkuq.fsf@gmail.com> <87edwp1w2z.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnagdih0.fsf@gmail.com> <87ilm0vlk7.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2022 15:49:29 +0200 Message-ID: <87o7vsd34m.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic , Stefan Kangas , Thierry Volpiatto X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Tue, 06 Sep 2022 12:34:00 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen said: Lars> Robert Pluim writes: >> How do we define 'fresher'? Lars> I left that as an exercise for the reader. =F0=9F=AB=A0=20=20 >> Anyway, if in doubt, use brute force: >>=20 >> (define-multisession-variable package-selected-packages-ms >> (package--find-non-dependencies)) >>=20 >> works fine. We could even condition it on `package-selected-packages' >> being non-nil. Lars> Hm... I wonder whether we could just drop the variable altogethe= r. Lars> That is, checking for freshness sounds like as much work as Lars> recalculating the variable. On further testing, using package--find-non-dependencies doesn=CA=BCt seem to work 100% correctly: installing a package in emacs-29 and then going back to emacs-28 has it showing up as 'dependency', not 'installed', in `list-packages'. Lars> What are the actual effects of the variable? That is, what code = is it Lars> supposed to speed up? It=CA=BCs supposed to allow people to deactivate packages without uninstalling them, I think, although I=CA=BCve never used it like that, and I=CA=BCm not 100% sure it works, since `package--find-non-dependencies' looks in `package-alist', which I presume contains all the packages found in .emacs.d/elpa Thierry, you added the defcustom, is there any light you can shed here? From my perspective we can stop updating the defcustom, but there are bound to be people using it for something. Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 06 10:30:27 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2022 14:30:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52225 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVZat-0002XG-DF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 10:30:27 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f48.google.com ([209.85.128.48]:39677) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVZao-0002Wj-9H for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 10:30:26 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f48.google.com with SMTP id i188-20020a1c3bc5000000b003a7b6ae4eb2so9717179wma.4 for <57503@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 07:30:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=ZkguCSZ9DBDbATYUQmkcNp31qxq48xGdWDrxcCZXCTg=; b=YrDTHie/+NegsoZiMSZz0hZvbLU3wZ8ZEStUFpX7S1uQYj84HLd5/iWpIEvYW9M3JK 9b1ZiS+9Zvp0h/JeRciXaUbWMxqazaiYcOhfuuYU5QDb2QCoHAqZEgbEK2hJ/4tlplfa UlIyPljSo0j9VcCWV37vac206vQpmaWZvUw0fjvCp0v1Xg+CN67AT1o0AwBbCwiKfiWa FuojBGh3ddotOn7xn8VVFkkp94+nksTn43pvbAWbhsy1yFJXB/8rN4SdtgmizHI6FA0s c3dbwO3vv9Hq8gchz5e5U7N2RrC3vBq3jMl++jgv8BKorNDYLhw1cYJfOMwubYDdVe60 mpZQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date; bh=ZkguCSZ9DBDbATYUQmkcNp31qxq48xGdWDrxcCZXCTg=; b=ghVWIrlX5n2OwZbKP0uDoxGjvx284iUjbHuAnxrH1NidLN1HX/nnNSYURSgQr3BDQ3 6NhDU40P1zrU2nU84ovCtM+TmCoZVe5Xy4QiziJebxX5NT6MQoCzggTvQWoTidYEG3Y2 yBEF5qkC6QQYtXv0IpohN9A8kPPxWaDHhG/7GaeWZEY/QhrCF66efhlCnD6FA7AhqOL8 r9bFBwcTHL8N46tYYbvke5TYXK89iN5xgUaI7M5asaHK8xbGaWHsvNpduqrNhBQaUwWF IkpQEzS3pX7DFLC9/gEuv1ExKP+KJdQYPGXexN+XbC39uO60iXZ6OoK380NuUv2AGcXR bGQg== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo17uEB5torLC91a/gUaxYFEqftSx3al423NHMHlQPPdd76hnHsE ASfPdmX8Nm37WyuoPm0+NRU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR5tB3ID6nmvbfSVNJKyJzH5l/BuJa5Gh+33rzam0IBB4WgxzatyfzuuQOPsHZ4hdGqODACeIw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:34c5:b0:3a5:fd9d:7b2b with SMTP id d5-20020a05600c34c500b003a5fd9d7b2bmr14008710wmq.1.1662474616391; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 07:30:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rltb ([2a01:e0a:3f3:fb50:f116:dbc2:98c7:dbf1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h21-20020a05600c351500b003a502c23f2asm22666014wmq.16.2022.09.06.07.30.15 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 06 Sep 2022 07:30:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: <87o7vsd34m.fsf@gmail.com> (Robert Pluim's message of "Tue, 06 Sep 2022 15:49:29 +0200") References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> <871qsrbedc.fsf@gnus.org> <877d2iff15.fsf@gmail.com> <878rmy3wc7.fsf@gnus.org> <87tu5mdopn.fsf@gmail.com> <87h71mdkuq.fsf@gmail.com> <87edwp1w2z.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnagdih0.fsf@gmail.com> <87ilm0vlk7.fsf@gnus.org> <87o7vsd34m.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2022 16:30:15 +0200 Message-ID: <87bkrsd18o.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic , Stefan Kangas , Thierry Volpiatto X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Tue, 06 Sep 2022 15:49:29 +0200, Robert Pluim s= aid: >>>>> On Tue, 06 Sep 2022 12:34:00 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen said: Lars> Robert Pluim writes: >>> How do we define 'fresher'? Lars> I left that as an exercise for the reader. =F0=9F=AB=A0=20=20 >>> Anyway, if in doubt, use brute force: >>>=20 >>> (define-multisession-variable package-selected-packages-ms >>> (package--find-non-dependencies)) >>>=20 >>> works fine. We could even condition it on `package-selected-package= s' >>> being non-nil. Lars> Hm... I wonder whether we could just drop the variable altogethe= r. Lars> That is, checking for freshness sounds like as much work as Lars> recalculating the variable. Robert> On further testing, using package--find-non-dependencies doesn= =CA=BCt seem Robert> to work 100% correctly: installing a package in emacs-29 and th= en Robert> going back to emacs-28 has it showing up as 'dependency', not Robert> 'installed', in `list-packages'. OK, this is because emacs-28 doesn=CA=BCt always update `package-selected-packages' the way I expected it to. I think we=CA=BCve come full circle, and would have to have emacs-29 continue to update it, unless it=CA=BCs explicitly set to some distinct value (Someone=E2=84=A2 upthread suggested 'external). Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 06 12:32:12 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Sep 2022 16:32:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52498 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVbUi-0002ZQ-Dy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 12:32:12 -0400 Received: from kamnitnik.top ([209.250.245.214]:39282) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVbUe-0002ZF-SB for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 12:32:10 -0400 From: To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Robert Pluim Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: <87ilm0vlk7.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> <871qsrbedc.fsf@gnus.org> <877d2iff15.fsf@gmail.com> <878rmy3wc7.fsf@gnus.org> <87tu5mdopn.fsf@gmail.com> <87h71mdkuq.fsf@gmail.com> <87edwp1w2z.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnagdih0.fsf@gmail.com> <87ilm0vlk7.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2022 18:45:21 +0200 Message-ID: <87czc8pi3i.fsf@miha-pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic , Stefan Kangas X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Robert Pluim writes: > >> How do we define 'fresher'? > > I left that as an exercise for the reader. =F0=9F=AB=A0=20=20 > >> Anyway, if in doubt, use brute force: >> >> (define-multisession-variable package-selected-packages-ms >> (package--find-non-dependencies)) >> >> works fine. We could even condition it on `package-selected-packages' >> being non-nil. > > Hm... I wonder whether we could just drop the variable altogether. > That is, checking for freshness sounds like as much work as > recalculating the variable. > > What are the actual effects of the variable? That is, what code is it > supposed to speed up? Isn't it used for distinguishing packages installed automatically as dependencies from packages installed explicitly by the user? This affects M-x package-autoremove. And if my opinion counts, I like having the variable in my .emacs, possibly under revision control. On a fresh machine, I can then simply type M-x package-install-selected-packages to install all the packages from the variable, and M-x package-autoremove to uninstall all packeges not in listed the variable. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 06 20:09:47 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2022 00:09:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52944 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVidX-00044w-9y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 20:09:47 -0400 Received: from mail-oo1-f50.google.com ([209.85.161.50]:46791) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVidT-00044f-93 for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 20:09:46 -0400 Received: by mail-oo1-f50.google.com with SMTP id d63-20020a4a5242000000b0044880019622so2198200oob.13 for <57503@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 17:09:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=VR3DakaJIgEq9CEo1JD0UEg3fp5BOALntR2In44oUWw=; b=oycxb14s/v/q51t20MNRgKbhZhCm2cD7KBtsKaUEZaoQxExRGxALfoVst1r3BEVxxO hFbQDLdb6pvYagya1/4ZKi1+WIXP9yOk+f0zTfxVJ3eP5ToMjZtapgPVb4lQUp9DErmY vrGHTz25wgDrfETTxY7DBQEYi99uM1yBX2iishB7hkpESSVOAdVzLyXn9/MgQ7CG3R5T LevEagNJq9hvV9lYkicp+IUMrsDyBdJTOD5Bq8GlaUswTPy7xiUbKuauUtlYpQtcrFpC 89Ch4zyy4L2RitsC7o8G+g3se6DAC207lLJGF4LkEdPmGHWeHjYx2dhzRdkd1ma6bmm/ RpVw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=VR3DakaJIgEq9CEo1JD0UEg3fp5BOALntR2In44oUWw=; b=F1pIWSVEuCF5R071LzX2o/sMFANwaRxIcZ/28ar/h5MEeCyHOB6QmHS79rbwvqAm90 5cMhC2vxQKxL50nkPg65D597mACE5qE0T5W30DZGDNO4syLo1eNKrEnq0T22Xc0DdiAk qtodlJ1/Kuee36BRkU/h4DTCkujQTPDy0osFkgL4MiD+bugc0fpdXhg8hAoeREX1WsIz /afzTDF4hDQrcDWX/4JvBpjQOTSJDjNWNpqAeeXFiiG9hyJUqYEPa9HKNgs2Gsb4VbX6 YjjdpTz00lUSovnt6OLuEL8eVoPp8SBNaSF1ZeF4zpE61MhrR62r7MWMpJIbAhBF0LD5 5RZw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo1sKYQS49KbDdie78i3ieBfnRWMGpHOH1mAMPEdjg1Ae1fHQWlI MO61mLV6OvNLfHEguKQqWarnqyV2KWrmbIH5jXs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR66TgWDBDdG4DX0kpPfSNM3r1C2c+Xar9Nw6C4SbSeJnBHyktPQqc8irL4+RxF6hAGphTKPpR9gRDNPhu6FBrE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6820:1795:b0:44a:fa7d:255a with SMTP id bs21-20020a056820179500b0044afa7d255amr393773oob.5.1662509377576; Tue, 06 Sep 2022 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> <871qsrbedc.fsf@gnus.org> <877d2iff15.fsf@gmail.com> <878rmy3wc7.fsf@gnus.org> <87tu5mdopn.fsf@gmail.com> <87h71mdkuq.fsf@gmail.com> <87edwp1w2z.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnagdih0.fsf@gmail.com> <87ilm0vlk7.fsf@gnus.org> <87czc8pi3i.fsf@miha-pc> In-Reply-To: <87czc8pi3i.fsf@miha-pc> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 02:09:25 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file To: jakanakaevangeli@chiru.no Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen , Philip Kaludercic , Robert Pluim X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) writes: > And if my opinion counts, I like having the variable in my .emacs, > possibly under revision control. On a fresh machine, I can then simply > type M-x package-install-selected-packages to install all the packages > from the variable, and M-x package-autoremove to uninstall all packeges > not in listed the variable. Can't this use case be supported with a multisession variable too though? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 07 01:25:00 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2022 05:25:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53197 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVnYa-0005ZG-FQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Sep 2022 01:25:00 -0400 Received: from kamnitnik.top ([209.250.245.214]:42426) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVnYY-0005Z5-SJ for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Sep 2022 01:24:59 -0400 From: To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> <871qsrbedc.fsf@gnus.org> <877d2iff15.fsf@gmail.com> <878rmy3wc7.fsf@gnus.org> <87tu5mdopn.fsf@gmail.com> <87h71mdkuq.fsf@gmail.com> <87edwp1w2z.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnagdih0.fsf@gmail.com> <87ilm0vlk7.fsf@gnus.org> <87czc8pi3i.fsf@miha-pc> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2022 07:38:10 +0200 Message-ID: <878rmvpwvx.fsf@miha-pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen , Philip Kaludercic , Robert Pluim X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: > writes: > >> And if my opinion counts, I like having the variable in my .emacs, >> possibly under revision control. On a fresh machine, I can then simply >> type M-x package-install-selected-packages to install all the packages >> from the variable, and M-x package-autoremove to uninstall all packeges >> not in listed the variable. > > Can't this use case be supported with a multisession variable too > though? Indeed it can, sorry. I was under the false impression that multisesion variables were stored in a sqlite database by default, which isn't suitable for revision control. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 07 05:55:59 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2022 09:55:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53420 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVrmp-00047A-0c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Sep 2022 05:55:59 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f41.google.com ([209.85.128.41]:46889) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVrml-00046u-FI for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Sep 2022 05:55:57 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f41.google.com with SMTP id k6-20020a05600c1c8600b003a54ecc62f6so9160953wms.5 for <57503@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 07 Sep 2022 02:55:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=8J6WXNCFbbWfvX8Paoa7qlDy+EkBunGbkx84vjiQYnQ=; b=KgAGvlkArimEZNDc5G7jY7mBj3C8160G0FwW4fkrkVHhym5BI+tdaevpg3Hwtzt7rg 19k34hZuVVvKc4+xe7r0Cylw5EvVfKK0jIJC4wV85MfzQgP2nUl04HpOTdJDBaAkou4T adJyRgwMxJ7m1EAGP0BaHsb0zoRcBf8YrVfPnpDewPqW/HcT9uqEIB+RXUOTGcyQLr9P I0hHZ7/UYMdBh/dDk3hemCvPX9CaX2mgnv5xLyIEEKeSDJMS5T07dYlYoDDZ3wfVBeWH XApVWZpFJkjyB2cYQvSGD59T2T+JwFWUaDXhAZPubPD4aVxux81GbjFmi8mbmn9HM5N9 2auw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=8J6WXNCFbbWfvX8Paoa7qlDy+EkBunGbkx84vjiQYnQ=; b=4YxUdOfndlc5JwNufmk2uxo1FwAYF8cYNfZLAcIiDN7QFpzXfHcZeQbsxRLOzUcmmm hKrIPweCnEnP9vYM+tocsrTcfHpIw3P0aPal35ccKZYfHIlMA6ytRUCcVOXOzkoGVK5e OE3sgwvh9eMYVa45zIIW0E9suYpgXnE2spFJ74OTEQkadi7FeF5BXVjMaxURNGoFuQ+r D7I0O7jcHWC9qamL7MkVpyoGW8NWmyhQhrPK1cAUspBQwx4FWNMo2ZrQH/LWItcTgd0B YN8NF58/Al8khVKLuNZ6BhThsZk1cA1TbURuseK36/82B5AyFaHo8j9PaVoAs+HNmBer dziw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo2ngQcTkinPoX3yqkzEauP+rft86Q0AWpCVzr7y2corKVWP/5T4 zgVLhILtM3ZD0qH8zq4P4TA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR5hDbzlZHuGojUfoODb6pRNM2dE1u8/UTlg9kmgs0Bu8bhl9CgYF2ior6kHRKAZLzBAgPpN+Q== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4e4c:b0:3a5:eb9b:b489 with SMTP id e12-20020a05600c4e4c00b003a5eb9bb489mr1441439wmq.56.1662544549321; Wed, 07 Sep 2022 02:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rltb ([2a01:e0a:3f3:fb50:1a83:d106:c1f4:476c]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n19-20020a05600c3b9300b003a846a014c1sm26818740wms.23.2022.09.07.02.55.47 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 07 Sep 2022 02:55:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 7 Sep 2022 02:09:25 +0200") References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> <871qsrbedc.fsf@gnus.org> <877d2iff15.fsf@gmail.com> <878rmy3wc7.fsf@gnus.org> <87tu5mdopn.fsf@gmail.com> <87h71mdkuq.fsf@gmail.com> <87edwp1w2z.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnagdih0.fsf@gmail.com> <87ilm0vlk7.fsf@gnus.org> <87czc8pi3i.fsf@miha-pc> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2022 11:55:47 +0200 Message-ID: <87y1uvbja4.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen , Philip Kaludercic , jakanakaevangeli@chiru.no X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Wed, 7 Sep 2022 02:09:25 +0200, Stefan Kangas said: Stefan> writes: >> And if my opinion counts, I like having the variable in my .emacs, >> possibly under revision control. On a fresh machine, I can then simply >> type M-x package-install-selected-packages to install all the packages >> from the variable, and M-x package-autoremove to uninstall all packeges >> not in listed the variable. Stefan> Can't this use case be supported with a multisession variable too though? Yes. The multisession variable would contain the same information, it would just not be in the custom file. (I thought the whole reason for this bug was that there was strong dislike for storing the selected packages as a custom variable, precisely because it disturbed version control) Robert -- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 07 08:39:43 2022 Received: (at 57503) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2022 12:39:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53807 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVuLH-0002E5-1N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Sep 2022 08:39:43 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:41380) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oVuLF-0002Dr-8u for 57503@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Sep 2022 08:39:41 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=lGpv+ouACo+EwxtZ/W7nsTMk4m7x/oX4Fg44txWYuWU=; b=C+AGXXEn/Rer5gZxi1w3LrYHQU 9xl4CFzytylQLVwmd13OnMpJ58spP4l2zWZQi4UyraUkUa88jK5j0avInRxb1mnL2NX/QT1r3Vq3o HzkNFx3q273u9JFYt/znx21j3vcR6/nl48T7gnXiOODI8A+lm7tVwFdthEQEJfPAc5z8=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oVuL6-0006mh-11; Wed, 07 Sep 2022 14:39:34 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Robert Pluim Subject: Re: bug#57503: 28.1.91; package-selected-packages should not be saved to custom-file In-Reply-To: <87y1uvbja4.fsf@gmail.com> (Robert Pluim's message of "Wed, 07 Sep 2022 11:55:47 +0200") References: <87bks0368n.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87h71pc450.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1v1j4os.fsf@gnus.org> <87bkrxg81b.fsf@gmail.com> <875yi4iy37.fsf@gnus.org> <871qsrbedc.fsf@gnus.org> <877d2iff15.fsf@gmail.com> <878rmy3wc7.fsf@gnus.org> <87tu5mdopn.fsf@gmail.com> <87h71mdkuq.fsf@gmail.com> <87edwp1w2z.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnagdih0.fsf@gmail.com> <87ilm0vlk7.fsf@gnus.org> <87czc8pi3i.fsf@miha-pc> <87y1uvbja4.fsf@gmail.com> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAACVBMVEWhlEBJRSr////o CFXIAAAAAWJLR0QCZgt8ZAAAAAlwSFlzAAABLAAAASwAc4jpUgAAAAd0SU1FB+YJBhYCMCj24n4A AADgSURBVCjPdZLRCgQhCEUVxneD/J+CejfI//+VtWxmdx9GmMHDvZlKAO+BdqKcXG/4U9AUqDEt oF+F0r/tR3kFfAXg0Ut5musi30Yzj6/CYz4CjJ7KA/XqkWxI0h+lpbTu4OXFBmukAL4AJwNyO6Db vsA/5QMrSI/trvoDDNz4htZS1kgzSascgF0HVw24xGQ03b1zrdV6juGv7OvIqe4Ta0E6B22lqBjV HqWzFDSxPQNQ8Q3aPNvz7Yhp1XONhwSg22xaiQ6WQoanUS8gdmz+p/UaQvBbux+7h55kou9v6gPB V0n+mfEx0AAAAFplWElmTU0AKgAAAAgABQESAAMAAAABAAEAAAEaAAUAAAABAAAASgEbAAUAAAAB AAAAUgEoAAMAAAABAAEAAAITAAMAAAABAAEAAAAAAAAAAAEsAAAAAQAAASwAAAABYCqauwAAACV0 RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0wOS0wNlQyMjowMjo0NyswMDowMGs0yuQAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6 bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDktMDZUMjI6MDI6NDcrMDA6MDAaaXJYAAAAF3RFWHRleGlmOllDYkNyUG9z aXRpb25pbmcAMawPgGMAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: OBF - =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=98Sixteen?= Tons of =?utf-8?Q?Dub?= =?utf-8?Q?=E2=80=99's?= _Late Night Tales: Version Excursions (Selected By Don Letts)_: "Originally recorded by Merle Travis " Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2022 14:39:31 +0200 Message-ID: <87v8pznyt8.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Robert Pluim writes: > Yes. The multisession variable would contain the same information, it > would just not be in the custom file. (I thought the whole reason for > this bug was that there was strong dislike for storing [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57503 Cc: Joost Kremers , 57503@debbugs.gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic , Stefan Kangas , jakanakaevangeli@chiru.no X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Robert Pluim writes: > Yes. The multisession variable would contain the same information, it > would just not be in the custom file. (I thought the whole reason for > this bug was that there was strong dislike for storing the selected > packages as a custom variable, precisely because it disturbed version > control) Yes, that was the original complaint -- that a user may have different installed packages on different machines, but want to use the same .emacs file. And in that case, package-selected-packages would be wrong. So there seems to be different use cases.