From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:13:30 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#5744 <5744@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#5744 <5744@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 23.1.92; doc string of `version<' etc. Reply-To: bug#5744 <5744@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 14:13:30 +0000 retitle 5744 23.1.92; doc string of `version<' etc. reassign 5744 emacs submitter 5744 "Drew Adams" severity 5744 minor thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 20 10:59:58 2010 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Mar 2010 14:59:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt09d-0006t5-OD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 10:59:57 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt09b-0006t0-U5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 10:59:56 -0400 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:41728) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt09X-0000SA-4v for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 10:59:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:34402) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt05e-0003Hu-1K for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 10:55:50 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt05c-0003yE-Oc for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 10:55:49 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.0 (2010-01-18) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.3.0 Received: from rcsinet12.oracle.com ([148.87.113.124]:41157) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt05c-0003yA-HC for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 10:55:48 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o2KEtjqb020611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 14:55:47 GMT Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o2KEZR79006816 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 14:55:44 GMT Received: from abhmt007.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 102429521269096875; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 07:54:35 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.179.75) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 07:54:35 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 23.1.92; doc string of `version<' etc. Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 07:54:36 -0700 Message-ID: <4E614B66A7BE41B496EA061D77C80C2E@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcrIPUIMcTZifCZ9Ts+bff5ZepFdaQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090206.4BA4E1F1.0129:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Spam-Score: -5.1 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) 1. Change "lesser than" to "less than". 2. Say explicitly that V1 and V2 are strings. Say in fact that they are strings of the format returned by variable `emacs-version'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 20 13:43:23 2010 Received: (at 5744) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Mar 2010 17:43:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt2hm-00083J-Pl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 13:43:22 -0400 Received: from mail-fx0-f228.google.com ([209.85.220.228]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt2hk-00083E-Vb for 5744@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 13:43:21 -0400 Received: by fxm28 with SMTP id 28so2334981fxm.39 for <5744@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 10:43:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:cc:subject :in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type; bh=2Vs3OE/b97trltBw/XesT7MF0tVKB19TdbKOxK3NHa0=; b=jjNBePRINq2byiszPSVJcn0893qJ9CbvpFHXIvojsK80C8jg9ssKT9U1j26zui3mR5 uB/kuLvGDynsgcYZl/ZhMx4ZEQoVrOHC/HO1YC/PqBhwlzSdX38RPLFtIvOmLNe3Nkne oWuimDYCu1QSCs9zN35tOB0XHPVpBnfFplSN4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type; b=yDJ6wMsBGbchMP2xXBiVRRaNDWgYMJ6bZ5Il636ooSK6ixklkt8sdwhnhWopz3sCjw 35TkmUYt70AteZqhRcPMDIPcIthx+S5P4lXO3Jxj9K7KyxF78dyuFNluUtlFCRrG8sre enOKGbtl7Kp+C75TgeKav37ePFjwXvQW9sU+A= Received: by 10.223.5.70 with SMTP id 6mr365119fau.18.1269106995913; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 10:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([88.103.132.186]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y15sm4857128fkd.8.2010.03.20.10.43.15 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 20 Mar 2010 10:43:15 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?= To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#5744: 23.1.92; doc string of `version<' etc. In-Reply-To: <4E614B66A7BE41B496EA061D77C80C2E@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 20 Mar 2010 07:54:36 -0700") References: <4E614B66A7BE41B496EA061D77C80C2E@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.91 (gnu/linux) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 18:44:19 +0100 Message-ID: <87pr2yriq4.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 5744 Cc: 5744@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) "Drew Adams" writes: > 1. Change "lesser than" to "less than". "Lesser" seems completely fine to me, but I'm not a native speaker. > > 2. Say explicitly that V1 and V2 are strings. I think that's clear from the docstring, but more clarity never hurts, yes. > Say in fact that they are strings of the format returned by variable > `emacs-version'. That would be misleading at best IMHO. The function accepts a far wider set of arguments. Also note that you would most probably want to change docstrings of the whole family of the version functions to stay consistent. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 20 14:10:33 2010 Received: (at 5744) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Mar 2010 18:10:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt385-0008Dk-12 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 14:10:33 -0400 Received: from acsinet12.oracle.com ([141.146.126.234]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt383-0008De-7G for 5744@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 14:10:31 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o2KIAMxx004189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 20 Mar 2010 18:10:26 GMT Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o2KIALYN011252; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 18:10:22 GMT Received: from abhmt006.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 102562251269108609; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 11:10:09 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.179.75) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 11:10:09 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "=?iso-8859-2?Q?'=A9tep=E1n_Nemec'?=" References: <4E614B66A7BE41B496EA061D77C80C2E@us.oracle.com> <87pr2yriq4.fsf@gmail.com> Subject: RE: bug#5744: 23.1.92; doc string of `version<' etc. Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 11:10:10 -0700 Message-ID: <9C18B608A91D4DE5B54FC6ACB722141C@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87pr2yriq4.fsf@gmail.com> Thread-Index: AcrIVNUCE9Kv1TG5RY6x2aXoyg3v2wAANPXA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090201.4BA50F8E.00D4:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -5.1 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 5744 Cc: 5744@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) > > 1. Change "lesser than" to "less than". > > "Lesser" seems completely fine to me, but I'm not a native speaker. That's why it seems completely fine to you. It's not English. ;-) "less than" is correct; "lesser than" is not correct. > > 2. Say explicitly that V1 and V2 are strings. > > I think that's clear from the docstring, but more clarity > never hurts, yes. > > > Say in fact that they are strings of the format returned by variable > > `emacs-version'. > > That would be misleading at best IMHO. > The function accepts a far wider set of arguments. Oh really? Then all the more reason to explicitly specify the accepted formats (completely). You cannot use a function reliably if you don't know what kinds of arguments it handles. > Also note that you would most probably want to change docstrings of > the whole family of the version functions to stay consistent. Of course. That's why I wrote "`version<' ETC." in the subject line. Also: 3. Specifically state the ordering rule. Wrt alphabetical comparison, don't just give an example, state that letters are compared alphabetically (and state whether that's case-sensitive). 4. Mention at least one of these version-comparison functions in the Elisp manual, node `Version Info'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 20 15:50:29 2010 Received: (at 5744) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Mar 2010 19:50:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt4gn-0000lk-AV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 15:50:29 -0400 Received: from mail-fx0-f210.google.com ([209.85.220.210]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt4gl-0000lB-Ji for 5744@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 15:50:28 -0400 Received: by fxm2 with SMTP id 2so1649689fxm.6 for <5744@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:50:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:cc:subject :in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MF/044DHWxoq4UEMZD+y85NiX8eUN39nwEBZ+XWYS5k=; b=ui6FCBLEFqI2u99XBAEkSOAF5zt5XdQLtjvDEnDOxUVnuBSY9C9LB3tEnKQeKXn9QR luxblY7Z5mZfmAa/CiwpAR+Vvm/mipBYKYvSr0klAb5Q1tsFZB8SQosr5SkV56rwy5L9 N4u33LKwhkkhffn7va0f5Floqae5Lz09U9430= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=t2Fx5aPiekCM4juhjyux/f1F4cizGIJdgCJBFRo7pXjzMvu8we20VYAWnKeB3LVwTT igLcYxcuA8xZS//J+SBzOt9RRWa2BCscjGP9msn9o3J4M9/ZFCECtg6OwpZafUe1xzrd VMD3HqJU5FVZyveaCe/eAxO5GknQuyyJlgIhE= Received: by 10.223.81.90 with SMTP id w26mr6678864fak.9.1269114622674; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([88.103.132.186]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c28sm5068342fka.14.2010.03.20.12.50.21 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:50:22 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?= To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: bug#5744: 23.1.92; doc string of `version<' etc. In-Reply-To: <9C18B608A91D4DE5B54FC6ACB722141C@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 20 Mar 2010 11:10:10 -0700") References: <4E614B66A7BE41B496EA061D77C80C2E@us.oracle.com> <87pr2yriq4.fsf@gmail.com> <9C18B608A91D4DE5B54FC6ACB722141C@us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.91 (gnu/linux) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 20:51:26 +0100 Message-ID: <87ljdmrcu9.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 5744 Cc: 5744@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.2 (---) "Drew Adams" writes: >> > 1. Change "lesser than" to "less than". >> >> "Lesser" seems completely fine to me, but I'm not a native speaker. > > That's why it seems completely fine to you. It's not English. ;-) > "less than" is correct; "lesser than" is not correct. Right, I see it now -- "lesser" is fine, but not with "than". Thank you. > >> > 2. Say explicitly that V1 and V2 are strings. >> >> I think that's clear from the docstring, but more clarity >> never hurts, yes. >> >> > Say in fact that they are strings of the format returned by variable >> > `emacs-version'. >> >> That would be misleading at best IMHO. >> The function accepts a far wider set of arguments. > > Oh really? Then all the more reason to explicitly specify the accepted fo= rmats > (completely). > You cannot use a function reliably if you don't know what kinds of argume= nts > it handles. The actual behaviour depends on values of a few variables. See the doc strings for `version-regexp-alist', `version-to-list' and `version-separator'. Perhaps pointing to them (and fixing the typos) in all the version-related functions would be a solution? > >> Also note that you would most probably want to change docstrings of >> the whole family of the version functions to stay consistent. > > Of course. That's why I wrote "`version<' ETC." in the subject line. Indeed, I noticed that only after having replied, I'm sorry. =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n > Also: > > 3. Specifically state the ordering rule. Wrt alphabetical comparison, don= 't > just > give an example, state that letters are compared alphabetically (and state > whether that's case-sensitive). > > 4. Mention at least one of these version-comparison functions in the Elisp > manual, node `Version Info'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 20 15:56:54 2010 Received: (at 5744) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Mar 2010 19:56:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt4mz-0001E9-SG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 15:56:54 -0400 Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com ([141.146.126.233]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt4my-0001DZ-70 for 5744@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 15:56:52 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o2KJukhT015901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:56:47 GMT Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o2KJA64w010941; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:56:45 GMT Received: from abhmt003.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 97625941269114914; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:55:14 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.179.75) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:55:14 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "=?iso-8859-2?Q?'=A9tep=E1n_Nemec'?=" References: <4E614B66A7BE41B496EA061D77C80C2E@us.oracle.com><87pr2yriq4.fsf@gmail.com><9C18B608A91D4DE5B54FC6ACB722141C@us.oracle.com> <87ljdmrcu9.fsf@gmail.com> Subject: RE: bug#5744: 23.1.92; doc string of `version<' etc. Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:55:16 -0700 Message-ID: <6448B1F535A546C7A163C6019F528EAB@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcrIZpXdptVhSas0QNGvFhXNaqB08gAAEdtQ In-Reply-To: <87ljdmrcu9.fsf@gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090204.4BA5287D.010C:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 5744 Cc: 5744@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) > The actual behaviour depends on values of a few variables. See the doc > strings for `version-regexp-alist', `version-to-list' and > `version-separator'. > > Perhaps pointing to them (and fixing the typos) in all the > version-related functions would be a solution? Yes. If there is a one of them that covers everything (e.g. by linking to the others), then it would be enough to link to just that one. But if the reader needs to understand all 3 variables in order to understand the acceptable formats, then we should link to all 3. > >> Also note that you would most probably want to change docstrings of > >> the whole family of the version functions to stay consistent. > > > > Of course. That's why I wrote "`version<' ETC." in the subject line. > > Indeed, I noticed that only after having replied, I'm sorry. No problem. Admittedly, it wasn't very obvious. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 20 16:46:56 2010 Received: (at 5744) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Mar 2010 20:46:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt5ZP-0003P1-O3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 16:46:55 -0400 Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt5ZN-0003Ow-1i for 5744@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 16:46:53 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0KZL00I00LN63O00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for 5744@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 22:46:22 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.70.182.236]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0KZL00I4LLP42C10@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 22:46:17 +0200 (IST) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 22:46:34 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#5744: 23.1.92; doc string of `version<' etc. In-reply-to: <9C18B608A91D4DE5B54FC6ACB722141C@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <83y6hmhgb9.fsf@gnu.org> References: <4E614B66A7BE41B496EA061D77C80C2E@us.oracle.com> <87pr2yriq4.fsf@gmail.com> <9C18B608A91D4DE5B54FC6ACB722141C@us.oracle.com> X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 5744 Cc: stepnem@gmail.com, 5744@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > From: "Drew Adams" > Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 11:10:10 -0700 > Cc: 5744@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > 1. Change "lesser than" to "less than". > > > > "Lesser" seems completely fine to me, but I'm not a native speaker. > > That's why it seems completely fine to you. It's not English. ;-) > "less than" is correct; "lesser than" is not correct. With versions, it might be better to use "older" and "newer" instead. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 20 17:12:57 2010 Received: (at 5744) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Mar 2010 21:12:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt5yb-0003Yb-5u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 17:12:57 -0400 Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com ([141.146.126.233]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt5yZ-0003YV-CR for 5744@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 17:12:55 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o2KLCnM5002344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 20 Mar 2010 21:12:50 GMT Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o2KIU5oh013911; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 21:12:47 GMT Received: from abhmt006.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 102674571269119537; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 14:12:17 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.179.75) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 14:12:17 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" References: <4E614B66A7BE41B496EA061D77C80C2E@us.oracle.com> <87pr2yriq4.fsf@gmail.com> <9C18B608A91D4DE5B54FC6ACB722141C@us.oracle.com> <83y6hmhgb9.fsf@gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#5744: 23.1.92; doc string of `version<' etc. Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 14:12:18 -0700 Message-ID: <3416E1927C6447259BD811B918EB8142@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcrIbngTYYCOckI6Rruz7BvaPloNfQAA2yQA In-Reply-To: <83y6hmhgb9.fsf@gnu.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.4BA53A51.0048:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 5744 Cc: stepnem@gmail.com, 5744@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) > With versions, it might be better to use "older" and "newer" instead. Good point. (And the rest of the doc string will (should) make clear just what string comparison is involved, as already discussed.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 20 21:12:23 2010 Received: (at 5744) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Mar 2010 01:12:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt9iJ-00051D-5i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 21:12:23 -0400 Received: from mail-yx0-f199.google.com ([209.85.210.199]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nt9iH-000518-M6 for 5744@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 21:12:22 -0400 Received: by yxe37 with SMTP id 37so904087yxe.21 for <5744@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 18:12:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:received:from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent :mime-version:content-type; bh=T6UaEGmI61CtfwdjcD2QzbgQxjmwqNrdWW19e+jK4FA=; b=pnj+4yWkN7xeOslofGsSD+LD+vqW8OxlVfLZNIj/viDKFz71lJcLweZbX3LspqsVFp 2PGGq8uxrj3AoX6mBAwpuFpR3TavqmXhc/ie7Xrpxr0AoWIYXFrMiuCZu+nMv0ayBrrI U7/b5xwHfZZj9uCPjAQ/EWDE/uzj8uPQBlgqw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; b=U3RSpJYukWychnF1QxJT6fu6T5/PzwCO/TnX9o+lb9tLiySwsTkg1w62NyakgyXSnH 0KgTPZeQPGz4hAYJ1UvPCrVVludi2Y25qn74DUNGAWYHE3nYzUq0cp4i+rRV2jJKzYBD j7mMJfNDnwo1fTwmjgoZ5M8Q26SpS9lWEfmR0= Received: by 10.150.47.13 with SMTP id u13mr9751452ybu.239.1269133937635; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 18:12:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from home.jasonrumney.net ([202.87.221.133]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 35sm920339yxh.15.2010.03.20.18.12.14 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 20 Mar 2010 18:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by home.jasonrumney.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3B666304; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:12:11 +0800 (MYT) From: Jason Rumney To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#5744: 23.1.92; doc string of `version<' etc. References: <4E614B66A7BE41B496EA061D77C80C2E@us.oracle.com> <87pr2yriq4.fsf@gmail.com> <9C18B608A91D4DE5B54FC6ACB722141C@us.oracle.com> <83y6hmhgb9.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:12:11 +0800 In-Reply-To: <83y6hmhgb9.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 20 Mar 2010 22:46:34 +0200") Message-ID: <878w9m1nro.fsf@home.jasonrumney.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 5744 Cc: stepnem@gmail.com, 5744@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Eli Zaretskii writes: > With versions, it might be better to use "older" and "newer" instead. I don't think it is possible to come up with an algorithm for that. There may be maintainence branches still running after a new major release (eg gcc 4.3.4 is newer than 4.4.1, despite being a lower version). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 21 00:12:30 2010 Received: (at 5744) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Mar 2010 04:12:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NtCWc-000628-JB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 00:12:30 -0400 Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NtCWZ-000623-MY for 5744@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 00:12:29 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0KZM0090062C7M00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il> for 5744@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 06:12:23 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.70.182.236]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0KZM0080J6CKX320@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 06:12:21 +0200 (IST) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 06:12:38 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#5744: 23.1.92; doc string of `version<' etc. In-reply-to: <878w9m1nro.fsf@home.jasonrumney.net> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Jason Rumney Message-id: <83wrx6gvnt.fsf@gnu.org> References: <4E614B66A7BE41B496EA061D77C80C2E@us.oracle.com> <87pr2yriq4.fsf@gmail.com> <9C18B608A91D4DE5B54FC6ACB722141C@us.oracle.com> <83y6hmhgb9.fsf@gnu.org> <878w9m1nro.fsf@home.jasonrumney.net> X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 5744 Cc: stepnem@gmail.com, 5744@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) > From: Jason Rumney > Cc: Drew Adams , stepnem@gmail.com, 5744@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:12:11 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > With versions, it might be better to use "older" and "newer" instead. > > I don't think it is possible to come up with an algorithm for that. I didn't suggest to change the existing algorithm, only the doc string. > There may be maintainence branches still running after a new major > release (eg gcc 4.3.4 is newer than 4.4.1, despite being a lower > version). I didn't mean "newer" by its release date. 4.4.1 is "newer" than 4.3.4, no matter what their release dates are. Maybe "lower" and "higher" is indeed a better terminology. Or maybe we should use both, to drive the point home. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 21 01:19:21 2010 Received: (at 5744) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Mar 2010 05:19:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NtDZJ-0006Qy-22 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 01:19:21 -0400 Received: from rcsinet11.oracle.com ([148.87.113.123]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NtDZF-0006Qs-6E for 5744@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 01:19:19 -0400 Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by rcsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o2L5JCLt022578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:19:13 GMT Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by rcsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o2L5JAOb014225; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:19:11 GMT Received: from abhmt018.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 98018131269148678; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 22:17:58 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.179.75) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 20 Mar 2010 22:17:57 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" , "'Jason Rumney'" References: <4E614B66A7BE41B496EA061D77C80C2E@us.oracle.com> <87pr2yriq4.fsf@gmail.com> <9C18B608A91D4DE5B54FC6ACB722141C@us.oracle.com> <83y6hmhgb9.fsf@gnu.org> <878w9m1nro.fsf@home.jasonrumney.net> <83wrx6gvnt.fsf@gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#5744: 23.1.92; doc string of `version<' etc. Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 22:18:01 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcrIrLdhBaMGge6dSq28z0i67SsxJgACLOWg In-Reply-To: <83wrx6gvnt.fsf@gnu.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4BA5AC50.0004:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -5.7 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 5744 Cc: stepnem@gmail.com, 5744@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) > > > With versions, it might be better to use "older" and > > > "newer" instead. > > > > I don't think it is possible to come up with an algorithm for that. > > I didn't suggest to change the existing algorithm, only the doc > string. > > > There may be maintainence branches still running after a new major > > release (eg gcc 4.3.4 is newer than 4.4.1, despite being a lower > > version). > > I didn't mean "newer" by its release date. 4.4.1 is "newer" than > 4.3.4, no matter what their release dates are. > > Maybe "lower" and "higher" is indeed a better terminology. Or maybe > we should use both, to drive the point home. It's not the names that are as important as communicating what they stand for. I, for instance, don't yet know what exactly is meant. Why the date of 4.3.4 might be later than 4.4.1, even though the latter is "newer". Try explaining it (the concepts) first, in simple terms. Then the words (good names) will come. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 21 14:00:57 2010 Received: (at 5744) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Mar 2010 18:00:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NtPSK-0003I0-PE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 14:00:56 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NtPSJ-0003Hv-5n for 5744@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 14:00:56 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0KZN00I008L2L300@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 5744@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:00:47 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.228.85.5]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0KZN00GYD8PAUA60@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:00:46 +0200 (IST) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 20:01:05 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#5744: 23.1.92; doc string of `version<' etc. In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <83vdcph7vi.fsf@gnu.org> References: <4E614B66A7BE41B496EA061D77C80C2E@us.oracle.com> <87pr2yriq4.fsf@gmail.com> <9C18B608A91D4DE5B54FC6ACB722141C@us.oracle.com> <83y6hmhgb9.fsf@gnu.org> <878w9m1nro.fsf@home.jasonrumney.net> <83wrx6gvnt.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 5744 Cc: stepnem@gmail.com, 5744@debbugs.gnu.org, jasonr@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) > From: "Drew Adams" > Cc: , <5744@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 22:18:01 -0700 > > It's not the names that are as important as communicating what they stand for. The best terminology is the one that doesn't need explaining, because it speaks for itself. > I, for instance, don't yet know what exactly is meant. Why the date of 4.3.4 > might be later than 4.4.1, even though the latter is "newer". If the 4.3 branch and the 4.4 branch are developed in parallel in some project, the chronological order between releases from the two branches is unpredictable. > Try explaining it (the concepts) first, in simple terms. Then the words (good > names) will come. These functions compare version strings in their numerical order, with some heuristics sprinkled on top. It's not easy to explain that in simple words, especially since the heuristics can be customized. Finding words that explain themselves will go a long way towards resolving this difficulty. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Mar 21 14:47:32 2010 Received: (at 5744) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Mar 2010 18:47:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NtQBQ-0003aT-0A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 14:47:32 -0400 Received: from acsinet12.oracle.com ([141.146.126.234]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NtQBO-0003aO-LX for 5744@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 14:47:31 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o2LIlL1t015116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:47:25 GMT Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o2LE8HNn027415; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:47:20 GMT Received: from abhmt018.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 103577101269197141; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 11:45:41 -0700 Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.179.75) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 21 Mar 2010 11:45:41 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" References: <4E614B66A7BE41B496EA061D77C80C2E@us.oracle.com> <87pr2yriq4.fsf@gmail.com> <9C18B608A91D4DE5B54FC6ACB722141C@us.oracle.com> <83y6hmhgb9.fsf@gnu.org> <878w9m1nro.fsf@home.jasonrumney.net> <83wrx6gvnt.fsf@gnu.org> <83vdcph7vi.fsf@gnu.org> Subject: RE: bug#5744: 23.1.92; doc string of `version<' etc. Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 11:45:45 -0700 Message-ID: <2B870125B2C04F1DB879F68A1030E0DF@us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcrJIHRAeECCXT+aQkiVZtU81obCngAAm9Sg In-Reply-To: <83vdcph7vi.fsf@gnu.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A0B0207.4BA669B9.0176:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -5.1 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 5744 Cc: stepnem@gmail.com, 5744@debbugs.gnu.org, jasonr@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) > > It's not the names that are as important as communicating > > what they stand for. > > The best terminology is the one that doesn't need explaining, because > it speaks for itself. Obviously. My point was about _finding_ that best terminology. So far, it's not clear (at least to me) what the behavior is, so suggesting names is driven partly by ignorance (at least on my part). You suggested "newer", and then it was pointed out that that was misleading, since the behavior doesn't correspond to release date. Then you suggested "higher", but there might be problems with that also, and that doesn't by itself convey any sense of newness. If you, who are familiar with the actual behavior, want to just come up with names on your own, fine - go for it. But if you want some help, then first express what the comparison _is_, and then perhaps some of us who are not familiar with the behavior can help you in your quest for the best terminology. This technique is nothing new. It is used by those involved with requirements analysis, documentation, "knowledge acquisition", specification, and other fields taht involve description and naming. (That includes much in the domain of software engineering, but it doesn't follow that all developers take the time to think through the concepts before coming up with names.) Yes, the terms in which you think of the concepts do make a difference, I agree. But you have to start somewhere. > > I, for instance, don't yet know what exactly is meant. Why > > the date of 4.3.4 might be later than 4.4.1, even though the > > latter is "newer". > > If the 4.3 branch and the 4.4 branch are developed in parallel in some > project, the chronological order between releases from the two > branches is unpredictable. Got it. > > Try explaining it (the concepts) first, in simple terms. > > Then the words (good names) will come. > > These functions compare version strings in their numerical order, If it is close to a numerical order (e.g. one of the most familiar numerical orderings) then "greater than" is probably the best first approximation of what the comparison is. > with some heuristics sprinkled on top. It's not easy to explain that in > simple words, especially since the heuristics can be customized. If no info about the heuristics is given - no explanation of how a familiar numerical ordering is modified by them, then stick with "greater than" or a similar term that suggests numerical order. If the numerical order used is similar to something like Dewey-decimal ordering, then it might help to mention that too. I don't know whether that is the case - I'm just mentioning that that is a particular kind of dotted numerical order that many people are familiar with. If this is similar to that, then that similarity could be mentioned as an aid to understanding - if it helps. > Finding words that explain themselves will go a long way towards > resolving this difficulty. Of course. And vice versa. With or without the best words, however, the specific behavior (nature of the ordering) needs to be described to users at some point, somewhere. It need not all be described in the doc string of a comparison predicate, but that doc string should at least point to a place where it is described clearly and completely. That place (or those places) might be the doc string(s) of the customization option(s) you refer to, for example. So far in this thread, all that's been described is a numerical order modified somehow by unspecified heuristics. With only that to go on, I'd suggest sticking with "greater than". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 22 17:31:22 2010 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Mar 2010 21:31:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NtpDW-0005po-HL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:31:22 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NtpDV-0005ph-BY for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:31:21 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NtpDR-00063x-3w; Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:31:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19367.57765.29581.658450@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:31:17 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: control Subject: control X-Attribution: GM X-Mailer: VM (www.wonderworks.com/vm), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs) X-Hue: cyan X-Ran: yA{]J+I3o~bY,FlW'ev}=rVN$_>bB8:vgD!!L$xJ!bDgNuo*I7pe*@<~tZ)!DAclwV;('H X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Spam-Score: -5.1 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.1 (-----) merge 5741 5747 merge 5748 5749 severity 5739 minor severity 5740 minor severity 5744 minor reassign 5750 emacs,ns tags 5725 patch severity 5725 wishlist tags 5722 moreinfo From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Mar 27 08:38:14 2010 Received: (at 5744-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Mar 2010 12:38:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NvVHJ-0001q7-Kg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Mar 2010 08:38:14 -0400 Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NvVHG-0001pt-Hd for 5744-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Mar 2010 08:38:11 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0KZX00A00XPWOC00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 5744-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 27 Mar 2010 15:37:15 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.176.135]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0KZX00A5OXQ27P20@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Sat, 27 Mar 2010 15:37:15 +0300 (IDT) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 15:37:18 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#5744: 23.1.92; doc string of `version<' etc. In-reply-to: <3416E1927C6447259BD811B918EB8142@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il To: Drew Adams Message-id: <83mxxuey9t.fsf@gnu.org> References: <4E614B66A7BE41B496EA061D77C80C2E@us.oracle.com> <87pr2yriq4.fsf@gmail.com> <9C18B608A91D4DE5B54FC6ACB722141C@us.oracle.com> <83y6hmhgb9.fsf@gnu.org> <3416E1927C6447259BD811B918EB8142@us.oracle.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 5744-done Cc: 5744-done@debbugs.gnu.org, stepnem@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) > From: "Drew Adams" > Cc: , <5744@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 14:12:18 -0700 > > > With versions, it might be better to use "older" and "newer" instead. > > Good point. > > (And the rest of the doc string will (should) make clear just what string > comparison is involved, as already discussed.) Fixed (on the Emacs-23 branch) with this patch: === modified file 'lisp/ChangeLog' --- lisp/ChangeLog 2010-03-26 08:58:41 +0000 +++ lisp/ChangeLog 2010-03-27 12:31:04 +0000 @@ -1,3 +1,10 @@ +2010-03-27 Eli Zaretskii + + * subr.el (version-regexp-alist, version-to-list) + (version-list-<, version-list-=, version-list-<=) + (version-list-not-zero, version<, version<=, version=): Doc fix. + (Bug#5744). + 2010-03-26 YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu Nick Roberts === modified file 'lisp/subr.el' --- lisp/subr.el 2010-03-03 03:58:26 +0000 +++ lisp/subr.el 2010-03-27 12:31:04 +0000 @@ -3573,11 +3573,11 @@ Usually the separator is \".\", but it c ("^[-_+ ]cvs$" . -3) ; treat "1.2.3-CVS" as alpha release ("^[-_+ ]?b\\(eta\\)?$" . -2) ("^[-_+ ]?\\(pre\\|rc\\)$" . -1)) - "*Specify association between non-numeric version part and a priority. + "*Specify association between non-numeric version and its priority. This association is used to handle version string like \"1.0pre2\", \"0.9alpha1\", etc. It's used by `version-to-list' (which see) to convert the -non-numeric part to an integer. For example: +non-numeric part of a version string to an integer. For example: String Version Integer List Version \"1.0pre2\" (1 0 -1 2) @@ -3595,15 +3595,15 @@ Each element has the following form: Where: REGEXP regexp used to match non-numeric part of a version string. - It should begin with a `^' anchor and end with a `$' to + It should begin with the `^' anchor and end with a `$' to prevent false hits. Letter-case is ignored while matching REGEXP. -PRIORITY negative integer which indicate the non-numeric priority.") +PRIORITY a negative integer specifying non-numeric priority of REGEXP.") (defun version-to-list (ver) - "Convert version string VER into an integer list. + "Convert version string VER into a list of integers. The version syntax is given by the following EBNF: @@ -3617,17 +3617,17 @@ The version syntax is given by the follo The NUMBER part is optional if SEPARATOR is a match for an element in `version-regexp-alist'. -As an example of valid version syntax: +Examples of valid version syntax: 1.0pre2 1.0.7.5 22.8beta3 0.9alpha1 6.9.30Beta -As an example of invalid version syntax: +Examples of invalid version syntax: 1.0prepre2 1.0..7.5 22.8X3 alpha3.2 .5 -As an example of version convertion: +Examples of version conversion: - String Version Integer List Version + Version String Version as a List of Integers \"1.0.7.5\" (1 0 7 5) \"1.0pre2\" (1 0 -1 2) \"1.0PRE2\" (1 0 -1 2) @@ -3673,12 +3673,12 @@ See documentation for `version-separator (defun version-list-< (l1 l2) - "Return t if integer list L1 is lesser than L2. + "Return t if L1, a list specification of a version, is lower than L2. -Note that integer list (1) is equal to (1 0), (1 0 0), (1 0 0 0), -etc. That is, the trailing zeroes are irrelevant. Also, integer -list (1) is greater than (1 -1) which is greater than (1 -2) -which is greater than (1 -3)." +Note that a version specified by the list (1) is equal to (1 0), +\(1 0 0), (1 0 0 0), etc. That is, the trailing zeros are insignificant. +Also, a version given by the list (1) is higher than (1 -1), which in +turn is higher than (1 -2), which is higher than (1 -3)." (while (and l1 l2 (= (car l1) (car l2))) (setq l1 (cdr l1) l2 (cdr l2))) @@ -3694,12 +3694,12 @@ which is greater than (1 -3)." (defun version-list-= (l1 l2) - "Return t if integer list L1 is equal to L2. + "Return t if L1, a list specification of a version, is equal to L2. -Note that integer list (1) is equal to (1 0), (1 0 0), (1 0 0 0), -etc. That is, the trailing zeroes are irrelevant. Also, integer -list (1) is greater than (1 -1) which is greater than (1 -2) -which is greater than (1 -3)." +Note that a version specified by the list (1) is equal to (1 0), +\(1 0 0), (1 0 0 0), etc. That is, the trailing zeros are insignificant. +Also, a version given by the list (1) is higher than (1 -1), which in +turn is higher than (1 -2), which is higher than (1 -3)." (while (and l1 l2 (= (car l1) (car l2))) (setq l1 (cdr l1) l2 (cdr l2))) @@ -3715,7 +3715,7 @@ which is greater than (1 -3)." (defun version-list-<= (l1 l2) - "Return t if integer list L1 is lesser than or equal to L2. + "Return t if L1, a list specification of a version, is lower or equal to L2. Note that integer list (1) is equal to (1 0), (1 0 0), (1 0 0 0), etc. That is, the trailing zeroes are irrelevant. Also, integer @@ -3735,9 +3735,9 @@ which is greater than (1 -3)." (t (<= 0 (version-list-not-zero l2))))) (defun version-list-not-zero (lst) - "Return the first non-zero element of integer list LST. + "Return the first non-zero element of LST, which is a list of integers. -If all LST elements are zeroes or LST is nil, return zero." +If all LST elements are zeros or LST is nil, return zero." (while (and lst (zerop (car lst))) (setq lst (cdr lst))) (if lst @@ -3747,31 +3747,31 @@ If all LST elements are zeroes or LST is (defun version< (v1 v2) - "Return t if version V1 is lesser than V2. + "Return t if version V1 is lower (older) than V2. Note that version string \"1\" is equal to \"1.0\", \"1.0.0\", \"1.0.0.0\", -etc. That is, the trailing \".0\"s are irrelevant. Also, version string \"1\" -is greater than \"1pre\" which is greater than \"1beta\" which is greater than -\"1alpha\"." +etc. That is, the trailing \".0\"s are insignificant. Also, version +string \"1\" is higher (newer) than \"1pre\", which is higher than \"1beta\", +which is higher than \"1alpha\"." (version-list-< (version-to-list v1) (version-to-list v2))) (defun version<= (v1 v2) - "Return t if version V1 is lesser than or equal to V2. + "Return t if version V1 is lower (older) than or equal to V2. Note that version string \"1\" is equal to \"1.0\", \"1.0.0\", \"1.0.0.0\", -etc. That is, the trailing \".0\"s are irrelevant. Also, version string \"1\" -is greater than \"1pre\" which is greater than \"1beta\" which is greater than -\"1alpha\"." +etc. That is, the trailing \".0\"s are insignificant.. Also, version +string \"1\" is higher (newer) than \"1pre\", which is higher than \"1beta\", +which is higher than \"1alpha\"." (version-list-<= (version-to-list v1) (version-to-list v2))) (defun version= (v1 v2) "Return t if version V1 is equal to V2. Note that version string \"1\" is equal to \"1.0\", \"1.0.0\", \"1.0.0.0\", -etc. That is, the trailing \".0\"s are irrelevant. Also, version string \"1\" -is greater than \"1pre\" which is greater than \"1beta\" which is greater than -\"1alpha\"." +etc. That is, the trailing \".0\"s are insignificant.. Also, version +string \"1\" is higher (newer) than \"1pre\", which is higher than \"1beta\", +which is higher than \"1alpha\"." (version-list-= (version-to-list v1) (version-to-list v2))) From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:13:30 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 11:24:03 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator