From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 25 03:04:26 2022 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2022 07:04:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48694 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oR6uf-00082h-UY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 03:04:26 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:41700) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oR3xo-0002bw-KG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 23:55:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49938) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oR3xn-000647-DU for bug-grep@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 23:55:28 -0400 Received: from newman.eecs.umich.edu ([141.212.113.151]:50236) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oR3xl-0002xZ-HE for bug-grep@gnu.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 23:55:27 -0400 Received: from email.eecs.umich.edu (email.eecs.umich.edu [141.212.113.99] (may be forged)) by newman.eecs.umich.edu (8.15.2/8.14.4) with ESMTPS id 27P3tIxE594402 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 23:55:18 -0400 Received: from email.eecs.umich.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by email.eecs.umich.edu (8.15.2/8.13.0) with ESMTP id 27P3tI4n350938 for ; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 23:55:18 -0400 Received: from localhost (tpkelly@localhost) by email.eecs.umich.edu (8.15.2/8.14.4/Submit) with ESMTP id 27P3tHmC350935 for ; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 23:55:18 -0400 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 23:55:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Terence Kelly To: bug-grep@gnu.org Subject: etiquette / GPL question Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.22 (DEB 394 2020-01-19) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on newman Received-SPF: pass client-ip=141.212.113.151; envelope-from=tpkelly@eecs.umich.edu; helo=newman.eecs.umich.edu X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 03:04:24 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Hi, I'm preparing a publication about a software tool (call it the "Munger"), and I would like to use GNU grep as an example of how the Munger can be used. I'm writing to ask how to address the requirements of GPL in the context of my somewhat unusual undertaking. I want to obey the letter & spirit of the GPL and to avoid annoying the GNU grep maintainers. I also want to keep things as simple as possible and minimize fuss & rigmarole for my readers. There might be a tension between these goals. In the absence of any legal or etiquette requirements whatsoever, the simplest thing I could do is: (Plan Zero) Write a little shell script that (a) downloads the grep-3.7 tarball, (b) unpacks it, (c) applies a small patch to a single .c source file, which adds roughly ten new lines of code, (d) builds the grep executable by calling ./configure, make, and make check, (e) applies my stand-alone general-purpose Munger tool to the grep executable, and (f) runs the resulting "munged" executable to show how my Munger tool changes the behavior of grep. I'm happy to apply GPL to the script described above. My reading of GPL is that a stand-alone general-purpose tool like my Munger need not be GPL'd merely because it touches the grep executable. (I might apply a GNU license such as Affero to the Munger tool anyway; I haven't decided yet.) I'd also be happy to arrange for the patch applied in step (c) above to insert a notice that the affected .c source file has been modified. I'd like to avoid having to distribute a large volume of material, e.g., a tarball that is nearly identical to the official grep-3.7 tarball. The Plan Zero approach sketched above --- a small script that applies a small patch --- achieves this goal. I'd also like to minimize the changes to the official grep distribution. If you insist, my script could patch several files (such as README, AUTHORS, INSTALL, etc.) to insert notices that one file of the original source has been modified. This seems like overkill to me, and it feels like a tail wagging a dog. Again, the only change I'm making is adding roughly ten lines of code to a single source file. I don't want to require my readers to use git or its hub, for three reasons: Lately FSF has been discouraging Free Software developers from using GitHub, I don't like git, and a substantial fraction of my readers don't like and/or can't use git. Please let me know how I might accomplish my purpose without offending you. And thanks for writing and maintaining GNU grep, which I have used every working day of my life for the past thirty years. Thank you. -- Terence Kelly From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 25 11:21:20 2022 Received: (at 57399-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2022 15:21:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51067 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oREfY-0007SO-AE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 11:21:20 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:57900) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oREfW-0007SA-Qs for 57399-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 11:21:19 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4D9316009C; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 08:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 3r3irEAmRb8J; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 08:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 346711600AF; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 08:21:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id M4gXKBYgZwoG; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 08:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.205] (ip72-206-2-24.fv.ks.cox.net [72.206.2.24]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DF81716009C; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 08:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <16f92bec-c123-1114-256b-e470ff1c5735@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 10:21:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.11.0 Subject: Re: bug#57399: etiquette / GPL question Content-Language: en-US To: Terence Kelly References: From: Paul Eggert In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57399-done Cc: 57399-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 8/24/22 22:55, Terence Kelly wrote: > (Plan Zero)=C2=A0 Write a little shell script that (a) downloads the=20 > grep-3.7 tarball, (b) unpacks it, (c) applies a small patch to a=20 > single .c source file, which adds roughly ten new lines of code, (d)=20 > builds the grep executable by calling ./configure, make, and make=20 > check, (e) applies my stand-alone general-purpose Munger tool to the=20 > grep executable, and (f) runs the resulting "munged" executable to=20 > show how my Munger tool changes the behavior of grep. > > I'm happy to apply GPL to the script described above.=C2=A0 My reading = of=20 > GPL is that a stand-alone general-purpose tool like my Munger need not=20 > be GPL'd merely because it touches the grep executable. (I might apply=20 > a GNU license such as Affero to the Munger tool anyway; I haven't=20 > decided yet.) > > I'd also be happy to arrange for the patch applied in step (c) above=20 > to insert a notice that the affected .c source file has been modified.=20 This all sounds good. One little thing: the step (3) notice must contain=20 a relevant date, as per GPL section 5(a). Thanks for asking about this. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 25 11:35:31 2022 Received: (at 57399-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2022 15:35:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51096 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oREtH-0001YO-FF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 11:35:31 -0400 Received: from newman.eecs.umich.edu ([141.212.113.151]:55688) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oREjh-0007ZA-Pv for 57399-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 11:25:42 -0400 Received: from email.eecs.umich.edu (email.eecs.umich.edu [141.212.113.99] (may be forged)) by newman.eecs.umich.edu (8.15.2/8.14.4) with ESMTPS id 27PFPPs8648562 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 25 Aug 2022 11:25:25 -0400 Received: from email.eecs.umich.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by email.eecs.umich.edu (8.15.2/8.13.0) with ESMTP id 27PFPPIj505834; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 11:25:25 -0400 Received: from localhost (tpkelly@localhost) by email.eecs.umich.edu (8.15.2/8.14.4/Submit) with ESMTP id 27PFPOKt505831; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 11:25:25 -0400 Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 11:25:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Terence Kelly To: Paul Eggert Subject: Re: bug#57399: etiquette / GPL question In-Reply-To: <16f92bec-c123-1114-256b-e470ff1c5735@cs.ucla.edu> Message-ID: References: <16f92bec-c123-1114-256b-e470ff1c5735@cs.ucla.edu> User-Agent: Alpine 2.22 (DEB 394 2020-01-19) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="-728931471-2731607-1661441125=:497910" X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on newman X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57399-done X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 11:35:30 -0400 Cc: 57399-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---728931471-2731607-1661441125=:497910 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Hi Paul, Thanks for the quick reply. I'll probably run a draft of my work by you, to offer you the opportunity to comment further, probably in a few weeks. Shall I cc: Jim Meyering too? -- Terence On Thu, 25 Aug 2022, Paul Eggert wrote: > On 8/24/22 22:55, Terence Kelly wrote: >> (Plan Zero)  Write a little shell script that (a) downloads the grep-3.7 >> tarball, (b) unpacks it, (c) applies a small patch to a single .c source >> file, which adds roughly ten new lines of code, (d) builds the grep >> executable by calling ./configure, make, and make check, (e) applies my >> stand-alone general-purpose Munger tool to the grep executable, and (f) >> runs the resulting "munged" executable to show how my Munger tool changes >> the behavior of grep. >> >> I'm happy to apply GPL to the script described above.  My reading of GPL is >> that a stand-alone general-purpose tool like my Munger need not be GPL'd >> merely because it touches the grep executable. (I might apply a GNU license >> such as Affero to the Munger tool anyway; I haven't decided yet.) >> >> I'd also be happy to arrange for the patch applied in step (c) above to >> insert a notice that the affected .c source file has been modified. > > This all sounds good. One little thing: the step (3) notice must contain a > relevant date, as per GPL section 5(a). > > Thanks for asking about this. > > ---728931471-2731607-1661441125=:497910-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 25 12:28:33 2022 Received: (at 57399-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2022 16:28:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51132 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oRFib-0002xS-HW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 12:28:33 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:38868) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oRFiY-0002xE-SV for 57399-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 12:28:32 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8499A16009C; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 09:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id dUVFoJdMUpFb; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 09:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB0651600AF; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 09:28:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id BfYuQvFSgO7N; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 09:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.205] (ip72-206-2-24.fv.ks.cox.net [72.206.2.24]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 93A6516009C; Thu, 25 Aug 2022 09:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <67e9813f-5bc8-2239-de56-fd75bd902338@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2022 11:28:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.11.0 Subject: Re: bug#57399: etiquette / GPL question Content-Language: en-US To: Terence Kelly References: <16f92bec-c123-1114-256b-e470ff1c5735@cs.ucla.edu> From: Paul Eggert In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57399-done Cc: 57399-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On 8/25/22 10:25, Terence Kelly wrote: > Shall I cc: Jim Meyering too? Yes please. From unknown Fri Aug 15 20:28:53 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 11:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator