From unknown Thu Jun 19 14:06:45 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#57108 <57108@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#57108 <57108@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: Time to retire texinfmt.el Reply-To: bug#57108 <57108@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2025 21:06:45 +0000 retitle 57108 Time to retire texinfmt.el reassign 57108 emacs submitter 57108 Stefan Kangas severity 57108 wishlist thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 10 06:52:40 2022 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Aug 2022 10:52:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46228 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oLjKK-000322-6E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Aug 2022 06:52:40 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:35966) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oLjKI-00031u-1H for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Aug 2022 06:52:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45036) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oLjKG-0005ZC-RC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Aug 2022 06:52:37 -0400 Received: from mail-vs1-f52.google.com ([209.85.217.52]:37781) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oLjKF-0000Z6-Cn for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Aug 2022 06:52:36 -0400 Received: by mail-vs1-f52.google.com with SMTP id 66so14700771vse.4 for ; Wed, 10 Aug 2022 03:52:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:from:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc; bh=GugjxVRMWaUstsGBaJ8pqivUwVQrTT8d0Ij21ZzZg+I=; b=yx1wcmct7gZMQY2VYYxSACfw9dEdIHh1Poh5KxcLgxCE1iPYNuIXjlpObtrt1WwtRb 2P8ZcoMOENTHFr0lTMp9YZIieUjDdwLE+8+vNjH7zOiWYcCZokisd08rr8KCPx+J7c39 PuGGSnpTTji6ZtEhnB7qoZSmBFxiWK5PJfG9RrmWnIv9iskcXaQhP2Lq1rb+2d0PZaUl L43GUe5ygWea08w/oFyh4U5Opj2pL5VnyHUkK/NzVPKZFGuFDG/afiGUsEnx0zx33xYM TUnAZwt6EFuRtRmn+CHCHAadi+nF3raTnrxiVPTM9cn3CdkSCDJ1ZweVz8cmnODxpvGR JT2w== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo1ZD661QFOaGuNEGS833IhJckeAdL4jn2SWq4hSTfwT2kLlb/KE /9VC++zw7eV269nZqf0eCfrU3/IdkjFS09BufxLxocBN X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR5c31IFYVj85+T1mzYUss3KMOq5carDESVT9G1X7eENeE3Kj2rg7NiQeowWvtZ3o/MOxwtefi7DekGsdwwhaWY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:2387:b0:34b:9f6d:10da with SMTP id v7-20020a056102238700b0034b9f6d10damr11683479vsr.28.1660128754272; Wed, 10 Aug 2022 03:52:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 10 Aug 2022 03:52:33 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 03:52:33 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Time to retire texinfmt.el To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.217.52; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-vs1-f52.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) Is it worth maintaining texinfmt.el? I guess the `texinfo-format-region' command seems marginally useful on paper, but its output is too different from `Info-mode' to be very useful in practice. The `texi2info' and `texinfo-format-buffer' commands are probably better replaced with a wrapper around the "makeinfo" command. (They also don't work; see Bug#57107.) So this file looks like more of a historical artifact than something that is actually useful these days. Note that it dates back to 1985, according to the copyright header, and was entered into VCS in 1991. It seems like it does nothing that makeinfo doesn't already do better, and maintaining it separately from the texinfo project seems like duplicate and wasted effort. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 10 08:25:26 2022 Received: (at 57108) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Aug 2022 12:25:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46721 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oLkm5-0007rs-6u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Aug 2022 08:25:26 -0400 Received: from mail-vs1-f51.google.com ([209.85.217.51]:38778) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oLklp-0007rM-Ha for 57108@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Aug 2022 08:25:23 -0400 Received: by mail-vs1-f51.google.com with SMTP id 125so14926979vsd.5 for <57108@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 10 Aug 2022 05:25:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=3SrZqI8D4WqudHC6bLtalZxlYKKy7gf50Djj7EebGks=; b=60lAwv4FVORUTts0C8jbdxx3bnNKc+94CnhKEdNEijhEQcmrOLJZy1YQqiqKLEnyqc t1g1fJakzWZpb4WmuYm/REtQA2erNz7TrFuxI+fksiw3e/9GI1n1jtZsMUQANr2IvuS4 Wr+C3Ris3bYbDajO2D5RUpfmmBFCxBD8/7iCFTtXd04vlWqzQc0CgLXm7OjTGhJZQ3pL zjtO4LX9VMea3zhw1HbHUrZRRx6AP3igeP/uN0mPtPFn6LOd6xSIQoJ5Xq8eNjrLG7fh W9X8SOkwjb6S8n+R9cysjvIq54RMlZNmI5cZwDJwkh8zAvcltw4I2PBkbSKE4pHRVhC7 pPcw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo3MubL1K/zfHLTvdJlwsbR0rNC3t6lsRK14SYhV7L9NS8EjoPtR Yvj6Ac2jJPzLCqYsQ88IJZTwOqOV4R06LbGu4Ag72KUY X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR5gKNe4x8pMPn1X50GiXEPVpsE8cPNWYQ4sMh0oCD82YKUDLJKpxr+VXbTrrjJDJibvegl17KT9+eVNcbKViuU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:7c6:b0:37d:34bd:8564 with SMTP id y6-20020a05610207c600b0037d34bd8564mr11205419vsg.59.1660134304061; Wed, 10 Aug 2022 05:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 10 Aug 2022 05:25:03 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 10 Aug 2022 03:52:33 -0700") References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Hashcash: 1:20:220810:57108@debbugs.gnu.org::7/HtHquTp8dIvGWB:4mIm MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 05:25:03 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#57108: Time to retire texinfmt.el To: 57108@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57108 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Stefan Kangas writes: > It seems like it does nothing that makeinfo doesn't already do better, > and maintaining it separately from the texinfo project seems like > duplicate and wasted effort. I found it instructive to run `M-x texinfo-format-buffer' in "doc/misc/org.texi", then `C-x C-s' to save the file "org.info", and then run the following command from the command line: diff -u info/org.info doc/misc/org.info This demonstrates that texinfmt.el would need *a lot* of work to produce output that of the same high quality makeinfo. It leaves things out from the output, can't handle some markup, mishandles quote characters, etc., etc. Just to give an idea: diff -u info/org.info doc/misc/org.info | wc -l => 44325 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 10 10:12:21 2022 Received: (at 57108) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Aug 2022 14:12:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50393 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oLmRZ-0001BG-4c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Aug 2022 10:12:21 -0400 Received: from mail-vs1-f51.google.com ([209.85.217.51]:43613) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oLmRX-0001B2-GN for 57108@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Aug 2022 10:12:20 -0400 Received: by mail-vs1-f51.google.com with SMTP id v128so15236178vsb.10 for <57108@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 10 Aug 2022 07:12:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=Pyx+5mn9b+LAixXPzMDiNmWh4IVaTJokwJfz9serQI0=; b=a3O9EI+4/c9FThwOUmiLaUYsgDIwguLa3h6ZVLpugG0S3tLlSPQvvPrE23z/BPwm28 kbnRXoN5xOenEZRwrd/i857iD2Vjx5HiZEabCURPSPir0bVIBzZ8Y2znipSrofRa6sLG p0ldmEojmCr1QlCFm40ETgiAaHzEL9jzW4qqgRtPL+CEiNXTe9ffEY1bapdTF4OlvOcy C1fboc0XdGLxRFO67OczI+J805RScomcX15XMwGbrUOwVSIvqIjySGlqjvwXHtDhrUOW GF1Xc/XiUpxK0cXD4Ak+8dDf2L/uJyT9Zpq7YkLeO+MjNUMt3w6O8jjp8qJj3Ni10+0g FjFA== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo3haZc9yanhJb3tREPE+i3+cJFtSsap1yvybNcqHkh5u9JNY81a NdWNjX4cNeoL0rrjf4LslXaHWnKapyoiRMD4HPZtcWTd X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR6ZVSVx3eNNEWzZE3JPmnIyy7al4PE9JKlKWESrB4IN1MnRvfXvQNqdACCTz+1YNGgVGZ1Wa83fnzdBv4VoJ6E= X-Received: by 2002:a67:ab0e:0:b0:357:889f:54 with SMTP id u14-20020a67ab0e000000b00357889f0054mr11369919vse.55.1660140733951; Wed, 10 Aug 2022 07:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 10 Aug 2022 07:12:13 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 10 Aug 2022 05:25:03 -0700") References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Hashcash: 1:20:220810:57108@debbugs.gnu.org::erw572N1YZUWpjlK:0iz/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2022 07:12:13 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#57108: Time to retire texinfmt.el To: 57108@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57108 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) I've tested `texinfo-format-buffer' with several manuals from GNU/NonGNU ELPA packages. Only one file worked: magit/docs/magit-section.texi In all other cases I tried I got errors bnf-mode/bnf-mode.texi (error "@comma is not handled by texinfo") magit/docs/magit.texi (error "Unmatched @end example") ; false positive org-roam/doc/org-roam.texi (error "@LaTeX is not handled by texinfo") slime/doc/slime.texi (error "@codequoteundirected is not handled by texinfo") swiper/doc/ivy.texi (error "@indentedblock is not handled by texinfo") use-package/use-package.texi (error "Unmatched @end example") ; false positive The fact that this command has been this broken for so long without anyone complaining should give some indication of how much used it sees. 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