From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:26:40 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#56641 <56641@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#56641 <56641@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: Deprecate `lsh` Reply-To: bug#56641 <56641@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 14:26:40 +0000 retitle 56641 Deprecate `lsh` reassign 56641 emacs submitter 56641 Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd severity 56641 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 19 09:38:59 2022 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2022 13:38:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53137 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDnRD-0006ap-0e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 09:38:59 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:47240) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDnR8-0006af-FN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 09:38:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44994) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oDnR7-0003Bq-Tf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 09:38:54 -0400 Received: from mail1461c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.61]:45046 helo=mail267c50.megamailservers.eu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oDnR5-0008KP-2x for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 09:38:53 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1658237912; bh=PLzqJMsdMWmNKMriJFgC5+4q4SW5x3PnY+v4rxJ1Yz8=; h=From:Subject:Date:To:From; b=dVlGlfDZkEmii54AvUMSmzid9uaWlLxHC9+TJuqNzbG4aDxpojTrZN4clc0z6bOvN VARt13ujEOuCfev2nMigzzoSXdx9DUW9SRtyr4QYr5rwuwrPiyekjXMLgu4ZSHK6lv zq5GefXrBaSnJi2nkIhLJo8hPHe8/3CZ3l0MNbP0= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c188-150.188-179.bredband.tele2.se [188.150.188.179] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail267c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 26JDcUT1044749 for ; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 13:38:32 +0000 From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Deprecate `lsh` Message-Id: Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 15:38:29 +0200 To: Emacs Bug Report X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F21.62D6B3D8.005C, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE Received-SPF: softfail client-ip=91.136.14.61; envelope-from=mattiase@acm.org; helo=mail267c50.megamailservers.eu X-Spam_score_int: -11 X-Spam_score: -1.2 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) The function `lsh` works almost like `ash` but is much slower, cannot be = constant-folded by the compiler, and above all has confusing semantics = for historical reasons. Using `lsh` instead of `ash` is always a = mistake. For these reasons we should deprecate `lsh`. It is not important to = remove it as soon as possible, but to dissuade people from accidentally = using it in their code. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 19 09:52:21 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2022 13:52:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53167 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDne9-0007Mb-GE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 09:52:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35694) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDne7-0007M4-PT for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 09:52:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35618) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oDne2-0002xw-IY; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 09:52:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=9BWFrEWxe/G/pXNZhQpiCBTotir/5cKVEoLVrHWIFMc=; b=Qhb5QIgn/i1W4Z8UC+F6 jRw41wT0QFPCU4GfDgVJiCGePIkrLk7PX3Z42ZdyUrEQMS/Vwlpl2F98VWZfCs1X6AHYU9mW/QMEq I+AmfHvzILDGlxvqrj1+nkwewu2f58Trr5AUm3QGG/l1yq9U3IVFcOABxvrm8pazVXozmVgA718/k tnOMleRsCjgkuUX0EHaD4UkX2JOGfUiGbqE8EATlNxxleHDsEIj46wLcI4o1WJAIdQdztojhN8gMx ZG4bk4rplZkVZujY3//7PpI7s9zrnQN4juG+hIcM2mQXoTTklAl/E/rB4HYaSA2Jq/9m8cPMWwKdL FLVyFdAIHJEgqw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4733 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oDne2-0002ip-25; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 09:52:14 -0400 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 16:52:03 +0300 Message-Id: <83zgh5mcqk.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Tue, 19 Jul 2022 15:38:29 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` References: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Mattias Engdegård > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 15:38:29 +0200 > > The function `lsh` works almost like `ash` but is much slower, cannot be constant-folded by the compiler, and above all has confusing semantics for historical reasons. Using `lsh` instead of `ash` is always a mistake. > > For these reasons we should deprecate `lsh`. It is not important to remove it as soon as possible, but to dissuade people from accidentally using it in their code. The ELisp manual already says that ash is a better alternative, but lsh has its niche, and I see no reason to deprecate it more than the manual already does. So, no, please let's not. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 19 10:44:26 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2022 14:44:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54868 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDoSY-0000h5-1X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 10:44:26 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f176.google.com ([209.85.214.176]:45741) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDoSX-0000gt-6c for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 10:44:25 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f176.google.com with SMTP id w7so12153853ply.12 for <56641@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 07:44:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=VZT4gZ1T6te1C/NejtjAxGFDRXdvBZn0j8j5BBT4n6s=; b=nJwvG6K5lanYibRBjMitjm5zRDwdFIqeEYNI+tyI4Av47ZxNAkef5oM3KcNV5+BgSc pVYIEe05OeFzj8FjsD1alFv8JlJvfIfSnlk0BrKlTI4Km7DdL8J6b1vfWIpgEV01w+eU 94uGXMd0YkFLpFu1oQcQIsh9jQx4bFl6JTAS4eEviNT3ezGEKG0A9EMyVPvG6C7WfEmS CFQRjz+EtoIgiov/1dcH0RZMjLuvcpfQydw3+Jo2XbrrnWVlizE2AfxePziAegLSYtf4 130vlSMf51bPekhwIhvHGo/Bz8mZNqzEM7kdLYxBaUIc95gD5KRgmctjPIZTdHsJw4DV F70g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VZT4gZ1T6te1C/NejtjAxGFDRXdvBZn0j8j5BBT4n6s=; b=3j5c8NhiGU525epxsKSWynIftqbwGFdTOUaJDtIwFZDOjW2Qq456t2e7KtxJkhXi7s FCH0ip+gcF5vAvwC7kXeLoMfHthcfDaZvkrhF1GAg5lGap+gqopoE7rxkG+3dRXNwqdJ Rhij4ML0zkbZPXEVNdFul4qr885cvhR7l38qt21fxn1g0Bo3YiynVN8geXbUDQRWEzex DYtlH+eYtQOABwsmcxMZv/8HbPiJIDSw/rsVPrdu4UG+W12CcVfoQ+z9vI8zay8bifBd kPzweLRyIQgplXvOAJTFeB3YQK9go1zM9O1gpkrcAaJlfzILR0f2YTRLzBStDUuBDpFh HBew== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora/T1mdwOxcjkx/BEruryC71HMYGO/KZgZhA6lk2xFz1Q+dwPGZg bP5B6F0CsJzE9BeWy5U/9D8Hu5v8g4RNBrTFR8M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1s7sPyJxAw4+/ERkKwu6VF0+MVgkL7SK8q+fIHIOJB1PdwBC5t/OUH7lFd1WDCWA3avjaXf1otpelaoepmHtN0= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:4f85:b0:1f0:95d:c02b with SMTP id qe5-20020a17090b4f8500b001f0095dc02bmr44614838pjb.89.1658241859295; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 07:44:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 10:44:18 -0400 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83zgh5mcqk.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83zgh5mcqk.fsf@gnu.org> X-Hashcash: 1:21:220719:56641@debbugs.gnu.org::BJg7yoxVXVDgfIkc:7LGv MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 10:44:18 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` To: Eli Zaretskii , =?UTF-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > The ELisp manual already says that ash is a better alternative, but > lsh has its niche, When would I want to use `lsh' over `ash'? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 19 11:41:54 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2022 15:41:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54960 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDpM4-0002FQ-UC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 11:41:54 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35714) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDpM2-0002Ew-2w for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 11:41:47 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37208) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oDpLw-000561-S3; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 11:41:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=hDlMXhTsvnaaWXoFAQxS4vN/qT1eCzWqYWaJhjT7eKA=; b=p/AuYH0d4pfD i1tBbLgBVio6BubCpl9vNPepqF5lgv5QOH0tHL4xVe3b8ZJ9kgKA590NWm693VAB2PT9KzqMUmJaJ 0IYb4HvjWCXF7QW7Cdla/2l8660snRXK7Gm0/vEdJgluyfck+5uWN1+N4y//rvuVXKU7IZmcmxr9F cgoe5X80LiMrmjdLbJLhIrECNAKinuBWIqIpsRQgRsVJaE2hmXC9xQfnfsDmNxKKZFKZ79ql9WrGX MrNZKtU0t4xH8ezVMPlwsgSAaV/WRNg7Hu8fEdz/FDCHEg6ly43lMyUGjpGrx8hsJ7zKNbhErEd0y LGeQpzoO/TY1pIgsHDFPVA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3625 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oDpLF-0007Yn-5I; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 11:40:58 -0400 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 18:40:38 +0300 Message-Id: <83tu7dm7pl.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 19 Jul 2022 10:44:18 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` References: <83zgh5mcqk.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 10:44:18 -0400 > Cc: 56641@debbugs.gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > The ELisp manual already says that ash is a better alternative, but > > lsh has its niche, > > When would I want to use `lsh' over `ash'? When you want the results that lsh gives you. They don't yield the same results in all situations. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 19 11:53:56 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2022 15:53:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54988 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDpXn-0002aq-VQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 11:53:56 -0400 Received: from mail176c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.186]:59570 helo=mail37c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDpXl-0002ag-HB for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 11:53:54 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1658246031; bh=98I2ZrbpYpKcllKOcxe1iUkCA0CpE0zVPklyFD69zkM=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=c/RDDR1Cmud4zVmlYYP5+xCrizj1GubowKqw2UV3oZTzoX+ak5Jl83tTpNt5K2Efc CKCMfPuj7YGO70KEm+grg44IfkTcme9dCPtUZ69ykuJCENHv3EiAHAJaZ+PEs+YgrE 2ZhPBtHhyOQvP+H/RXWbYD6mgPTXV43M/hW9HJC8= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c188-150.188-179.bredband.tele2.se [188.150.188.179] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail37c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 26JFrm8G088079; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 15:53:49 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 17:53:48 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <52FF0BFF-F19C-4ABA-82BE-8FE3277B726D@acm.org> References: <83zgh5mcqk.fsf@gnu.org> To: Stefan Kangas X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F22.62D6D38F.007B, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 19 juli 2022 kl. 16.44 skrev Stefan Kangas : > When would I want to use `lsh' over `ash'? Never, of course, but we shouldn't remove `lsh` as long as it's needed for compatibility with old packages that make pre-bignum assumptions, which is the reason for its existence (and semantics) in th [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [91.136.10.186 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) -0.0 T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE No description available. 1.0 MAY_BE_FORGED Relay IP's reverse DNS does not resolve to IP X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) 19 juli 2022 kl. 16.44 skrev Stefan Kangas : > When would I want to use `lsh' over `ash'? Never, of course, but we shouldn't remove `lsh` as long as it's needed = for compatibility with old packages that make pre-bignum assumptions, = which is the reason for its existence (and semantics) in the first = place. And that's fine -- `lsh` can be kept indefinitely. However, I just = removed several calls to `lsh` from new code in Emacs so evidently we = need to up our information efforts a notch. Adding a few words to the doc string may suffice, but a byte-compiler = warning would help. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 19 12:20:24 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2022 16:20:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55036 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDpxP-0003I3-Ql for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:20:24 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f181.google.com ([209.85.210.181]:41520) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDpx9-0003HD-Gd for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:20:22 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f181.google.com with SMTP id l124so13991104pfl.8 for <56641@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 09:20:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=szjCvxxxCY+2FPInfK8tIOkrML8EKfDu9brWAXSBISs=; b=cnQemRv7EbXWNFrqNAWzpd0HwpdxDi2Kte7GSZG17repmtGjWGG0dwTb6glSZ4eTC6 Db9Ur2EQtCIQydvbLRIAau/GMENt8FIy04ghkMkHXZLHELgk+pOrPOmsi5jH7QAnxfwm jMhYZpSgENbiY+5Yk+2+udDjGAbpw9aHxJICiSomqvE/i7iVCvMyD8YnbK/lxkLCIH0n oYwGmHsmHJC2qpr3lq+SQXfeHSCY5nBR5nb0tZraSizpWDNS+qVvZmwnttY2OYO2vDtw c2V9EDMfkMjCJMN3dywSLnM01lC/47n+JgxcWjcyhEFe1HFqDMXhi5etiiVJFjEYvxjP hcrw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=szjCvxxxCY+2FPInfK8tIOkrML8EKfDu9brWAXSBISs=; b=NH90oG8VbZvNNC4zqIb0gtNhuWQLbYknar7MzsgvioiBJ+YwazKnF7JOrz3pRcJ3WJ wrw2hSs6VDBvOFenvPz9YezdyPMGYSvVaKORvUMdFJZ8WvMs1Av7lOmWiiTx1s+3ziqs UggX+Zr2n/R5HQPNojBY1V5CrdWHIyCdE+RbQr2+qhX/FkVa05rwC/d0L898R54W7PlB b3DjT8Tw9HDCp3J3MQA638k2vO5osdI7hLcJj6naAxkG22DuUq9nKXuE7+7BrpxvrJIH mhLUejGZZV8kSqb2aNXlb/RouMfNMTjDAiStZQz8CaeNTVgbHzvh1Edm6ayFcNvg5kVU lylA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora8aNoMPcQ3g2nsyPSSUR6sNVkset6hQPdiTuwHrxwBDIfENmQo+ txaCNGPlzPY5eAr1XFNXhsBt882uoZQGkwy0lg0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1sJIGJzQvGyHI6o7LxVZsTDAU+UpGIVHP00MZHYf8lpr1xO9UT9C04ZXn6isvaACzXMk/NDksmLEG+J5NSS3Ck= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:4148:b0:52b:603c:d3a with SMTP id bv8-20020a056a00414800b0052b603c0d3amr15173265pfb.3.1658247601637; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 09:20:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:20:01 -0400 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <52FF0BFF-F19C-4ABA-82BE-8FE3277B726D@acm.org> References: <83zgh5mcqk.fsf@gnu.org> <52FF0BFF-F19C-4ABA-82BE-8FE3277B726D@acm.org> X-Hashcash: 1:21:220719:56641@debbugs.gnu.org::4LZZQmMmYYZl/6s0:OzpP MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:20:01 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` To: =?UTF-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > Adding a few words to the doc string may suffice, but a byte-compiler > warning would help. What we have done in such cases is declare it obsolete but add a comment that we want to keep it around for longer. See `interactive-p', that was not deleted in Emacs 28 despite having been obsolete for over a decade. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 19 12:39:05 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2022 16:39:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55073 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDqFV-0003mz-76 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:39:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52256) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDqFT-0003mW-Aq for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:39:03 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:38496) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oDqFN-0007JK-TZ; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:38:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=FFYQXBGOrFBJ4HxRxxdbUXuGihNbY9n8aNJI0vzRXls=; b=N7mnbiTMAPzMVfnvvADH 4bnrlBh4ib7y6+qA8rE4/V35gL4+XXbnO5S1GZqR8t5yhrWOmWSAO28j5euxDQc325vl8CxEmoT4x dZk6xeSd8/DtFox6b6ShnhkrMbdTkHJMpUls70iveg/XcoMT4w0R0qSm8Jzbbjo5+9RS0W6vvwboS fbvR25RXZhSgUT4LSyRZr13yY+3VV4zTaGbPWmVbFrB2k6AkAPZe8QpiIDlOWO6dV+s8XMKDhxLv6 2+mT906j/wBtOrcBSElMjWEylzGPSWHpwM1y06mCLW4WedF4vBEekhLbAD9d4yeYbZFrlWDsb1B6L V0O0pQ2hozt6ZQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3202 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oDqFN-0007IP-Bu; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:38:57 -0400 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 19:38:46 +0300 Message-Id: <83lespm50p.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:20:01 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` References: <83zgh5mcqk.fsf@gnu.org> <52FF0BFF-F19C-4ABA-82BE-8FE3277B726D@acm.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:20:01 -0400 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 56641@debbugs.gnu.org > > Mattias Engdegård writes: > > > Adding a few words to the doc string may suffice, but a byte-compiler > > warning would help. > > What we have done in such cases is declare it obsolete but add a comment > that we want to keep it around for longer. See `interactive-p', that > was not deleted in Emacs 28 despite having been obsolete for over a > decade. This is not what "obsolete" means and is about, so let's not abuse it for this purpose. I'm okay with introducing some new special attribute for such cases, i.e. when the use of a function or a variable is discouraged for whatever reasons, so that the byte-compiler could warn about that. Just let's not called them "obsolete", because they aren't. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 19 21:26:07 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2022 01:26:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55443 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDyTW-0002NU-QA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 21:26:07 -0400 Received: from sonic308-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.187.33]:32941) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDyTU-0002My-EM for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 21:26:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1658280358; bh=U+uXULE+N3W+6YKVgPo9u4ObI4R2Mr8o3uzewPcqcn4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=hv/8S88RlEbe+Dt5SbIy+u/jJ4HA2qWAYNHWoEN9yIb+O1VKB5cw1kr8dgbtFircfU7Lpcl9dLiBP9LPNPn1opX1UfPjLP0Qc8DlyXUCgZgICUH3ifxXeYFbgiECb7k6KWWzOArpC3Fer9+H5070xWgXfaB6fE66Tyoxd3OprkgyeXko6VBiQckDRZbJ+5r6MpxbGmfBkp3f7NKD4yeEgp4BUZblVDqTDYLQvL4d0eAOVEObJHUF9mJ1znJ4xyHlnpm4mGQXsOIM55Db/60YkU8pPCmz2xqqKCNRuZ3TbJHIoen0uf88pWrDYddV43yDkFwA7geK0WMjst/rLW4hwQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1658280358; bh=MZab84fwBUtLtchY7cg7GnpqRNkHpfD4kBgjOLVF8L2=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=t8G9JKyJfpkHW9pp4j2mMPo7jlYn/hjl2Q6M5jWHi9m3GQwxxyFWPs3igGKS2pTc7uecPhsCFE5AGzFoIljF5WTY/CkiZutsqrU7qa1a+XV9ug5TYe/pEUPsFfyLT3jbOUpNBRzCn0ExOWKne7SUQXgezIFosmdDe4ZTr23Okz899pn7gHgUiRcGcqrP2345eomAX5gCSzFH1nW8EAmaFrkd0SzYGHpDsYFeV7y4WEf2qCOOoFReJlFrOLZJ2r61qRqASiyuq1aE3KbMNXQTRW8oGFtm++wPyXSkeCnm06Z6MbakSP9k1ktRG1NaTXnCJp47surG7g1cLN1ZbWyZYA== X-YMail-OSG: 84mJlK8VM1mkMpq.mS.lIRJ4QJsYZer6e6TzOM67yxyxmoF03wXaEjLs_72pwI6 tPGmfsWHksi__TEoTcwRWdRzXb1XPjfj6G1B3ixJYGwm7BwRzxmVjwVmT5nUXvJVO2jvTz4k81x7 b5vU84FAmN_y46KeIfScu7uxJwwvjKbxkn0qg98fp_gK95LMmsNzcc02tLr5sizBoxoTSggHazCC _WynTXuyFEW_PuNIOCT61P79CeCYmepqwX7g8UFuDRdxTE131vCR8v69E2n_JDl6zEz0soFnJfXm 4h5b5N8gJghulk9sjfPvpRWZ6Td__nbjC2GwRbXk.R6I9xSI0UqX5WBBdIJy_apkVkXJDs3zi8vs igC96jpu6NEvvf75Q4ZI7AvjPG9rNjzd1S_igEimKM_aBHh_JUPAZaBJsjKyKd.cx41akgX9aAH2 hGCVYody2AyYiMrtmR7BwbQBJiStv.bY6jjZLKKtjjRKrlDtTm9xjRO4FVFXoX7GGmE8gsQ.4zBX u_aGaFarYqKa3kPTDtbKnztOp7MczlynwN7kvXlystt6m5u2BfE0oNIsr6XbxLIw9xX.2fXnpWiw uG7lHznK5Zh87EPtu4mRW8WHjM.Ojxri681uJWn2dE.iEZfPNvk0Am44x7SukvrCNcdnYzbh70xb KM8ltUemx082sS.74yXItr.7HtKojmfSwnUnOxX3Vgbizbjv8AP18BEUtJ3RMcEmHfl0HDmoRELk NNXMehl1slCK4SVhNo1GyDuvnv_aPb47eslfI7eOBX7TKx7TOFBtutrYtxZMaDm9hAmTV13Z8qB. TCw8PJxRcHcs5NC4qHYjzbqDWFm_LczisAKGzYo0AGiljtS9Vg9TjndhWSVWjb2UeXaPBzmJmWer KJv0ZRD_jMOQnh6LD23VrBKSTfBYncbQ00WL1Rfde_DYOy53b.njGXtPjVi1b1EjbdwVQJG_jPMf DXiEGwVEU5o.zxR24h8X3IB1tO.iGfpTF7HWwYIcD2NsGIj7B5_QpVS400weSrWioGCekv.vgqvY t66_hemEfPwCz0zDoVaLyw5N_oyV8Gk3coSxbSrL4ZgYNf8Ni5d37SnrhcDiRa6s8y9PES.mVTqt AxLSlpxkw7pD0VSfRiHtypOXpYnE9j6g6oHrT7Rl_92fHtlh5MSznTlZ_hcAunuq0MvGCc.ec3qr wDOzuMBe9IvYV6yklDaFuUfjXXIhBE4bdedBMHvbvgRE_n5hVB6BDMHEM4ZIch4x1isUHF0QobnN j.ZLlvF85e0kdLSRelQ_EaYH97D7ffGhuTSsErKoATbAj5XLXKcqpbMcE1rJiBaBL79iJIi27cVW KIAmrbf0ByV_Y4iMiNZeSaUcquxENyoJyCNUw9SPnoVF6BqrbO1E3NQKKWkD2mr4990M60rz_mhC CUH95pa2Ry0ywAdQUHdts9iVyxU90ZMnwjoS9RSeIsZlvFPsUQ8bi7lXhOSMiZ5KDZB0ITNF6tPc JvQ4bKTQnHDIk.CETLEFQWjEYz5ItMOzAAUmFQGm2h0XmuJ67kmbl7mmKYX.wfXvqLYBQuSP6L1f qkD4_nDzYZePkxeHdErHwRoNeJtLP6Gng.Ga4glCyBwnLBEr1ltdoLnYRYHDwvas.I98FmrckqAn 2R9nlxNTalWleG_ykRBWRb.LsYYE.9IvCOyeTn5ADKcD52wS1HWd8BtWJjQ25XFsPmySHtzHSbn0 1_5SnHJijaH8mtxTGiqnjKP7AuU8HOk_lVkwWLI8_0c3iBstWdh6fVkaBNg7.HZjPOsNf1ze.aAX 6XPwkhn0CeyJ3pNFi8nyJSUQvj1Cf2S_fyu6Blx1IMJWprDzZ.mGrFdbPJ2fKs3QoNfeqmdIUWIM adNsRwRqL0ResiVX4m3jdnZyUt5Btjc8T6fNwwo7vK81kyk.IeJkgyIRsblX1NJMnOsQg7FtbPHr 10j7acCDdlQeg6td_LCIREZEO07Qk3uVYEe8E8fRKLDyeK91vGMU0OkXFM0htlgs8GhxbufEN6_8 rjETKDoRmKsU.FfTn3Is2uTzxRKmRll6XCmq_oIya6twN9uPgarXmB3AfPDYRPEiD5rI4jC2o3gA RLyLq4gVGg7zKuylUrKI8_v.13wF7Fr2cyNrBB8kddohyZuy1lkQNeu8IxqHQN2SFCz1Ht.67GhX Kg8nvcJejN.4xwAEdOqU_hJy2gVupfcDM_4H0O8LIcx.DrnvqsfTzRxGQJz4IyO.gLU4YE8P33pz WjdfUdMJqhUi_8M_cgfWtCgx_fE62AqG8usIkWmReuX5zt.UeN4KH8pnyJA-- X-Sonic-MF: Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic308.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 01:25:58 +0000 Received: by hermes--canary-production-sg3-67975bbd4b-bp49d (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 8f560dbd4effc87794f12610a0859658; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 01:25:54 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` References: <83zgh5mcqk.fsf@gnu.org> <52FF0BFF-F19C-4ABA-82BE-8FE3277B726D@acm.org> <83lespm50p.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 09:25:49 +0800 In-Reply-To: <83lespm50p.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 19 Jul 2022 19:38:46 +0300") Message-ID: <87cze0bmn6.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20407 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 384 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, Stefan Kangas , 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'm okay with introducing some new special attribute for such cases, > i.e. when the use of a function or a variable is discouraged for > whatever reasons, so that the byte-compiler could warn about that. > Just let's not called them "obsolete", because they aren't. Having the byte compiler warn when someone uses lsh would be very annoying. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 19 22:36:51 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2022 02:36:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55474 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDzZz-00049n-Dt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 22:36:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37426) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oDzZv-00049S-2r for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 22:36:50 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49026) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oDzZp-0008VE-JM; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 22:36:41 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=1B1j/UOuhNhm6i2KYk0+pbbAhh8TT9c60nwH0yKlsHg=; b=YtnQ4GemCQ4K Ww0b5OfG9fW6qfYUmZkXxLsUA7I7aG5nsLm2GV658w6cj00L/85oHih2O/HztlJ0L21nEMgFrLrgk ZCU5aQ2l/VXqjDbt5nAFjH/d9JYpZkMFE7hkEiVmUMVSBJu8bHo0LnFZnphr+z6artWnlbUmsa1OG AH1ZhyAvLwhi3nKAa/Oi5hLPZvcXhI5zhi8Yfq5G6ZX0ClOf9q6OhX7oILrGgoQU/vJDx/qAAnotn vreAA9oMCSfcJwr80jHhGlAhxg+ohrjE1O09BcLCv2MBmoMCJEX6SWBXHj91zeJuQ3epDM0+qIO3i hXH7Sx80jHa9+P/ofGd+Gw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3855 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oDzZp-0001ni-2Q; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 22:36:41 -0400 Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 05:36:30 +0300 Message-Id: <83bktkmrwx.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Po Lu In-Reply-To: <87cze0bmn6.fsf@yahoo.com> (message from Po Lu on Wed, 20 Jul 2022 09:25:49 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` References: <83zgh5mcqk.fsf@gnu.org> <52FF0BFF-F19C-4ABA-82BE-8FE3277B726D@acm.org> <83lespm50p.fsf@gnu.org> <87cze0bmn6.fsf@yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Po Lu > Cc: Stefan Kangas , mattiase@acm.org, > 56641@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 09:25:49 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > I'm okay with introducing some new special attribute for such cases, > > i.e. when the use of a function or a variable is discouraged for > > whatever reasons, so that the byte-compiler could warn about that. > > Just let's not called them "obsolete", because they aren't. > > Having the byte compiler warn when someone uses lsh would be very > annoying. If it's rare enough (as it should be), I don't see the annoyance. Am I missing something? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 19 23:20:32 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2022 03:20:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55501 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oE0GG-0005H0-Bw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 23:20:32 -0400 Received: from sonic312-25.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.191.206]:34323) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oE0GF-0005Ge-1P for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 23:20:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1658287224; bh=+uSZS4EP1lIEycjxZIJvG5wlc0pjBXKLhAsRhMRqiwk=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=Ir34VhPnBJbXEbt8EezyFy4Qz3O+EcTDgNgRmXQx3KMZlds+EjH21K7B9NeZEE1+r9FN4/vjcEabGwT12z1ixro/FP2CTzaL+EYuUBe5MtCnES3WDRaYWixgoSyZN/3nCFYEjb6fygxLPx6xrDA+NKO2jkeueGfECt1d2hXlQsNzJh96Rcgu4oBzBPPYTXyyczMuaSFmhXaDDfCCK6kfqc9DYYU8ksXZcMP2eCifG8s7TV90Y8nzCXZ5yPDm/ApaecwcrYvfJq5HIMyRKdzkweoApn0DFFfi7eyUPqH+/k5uYifmLo+nI0/ph8y80scosI8gN1PhDEB7dXZs2YObnA== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1658287224; bh=I0msy59SZbY60LRAqOrdxn61tlgG/vLaHeKYvZkASWH=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=HPmKYoLAWMd6M1OVAzd3ydZhaRLvJt5Zm0ycIl5wYg31V/C6IynAotMFkmgsV8BdkpBgB1Rf5zlbCW3j5ht/sTR38P7ZSs+/9pXms87T5mM+Mpv8JD+Jn5+i6eUsrYDBDHU3QUH1cEfXxuV//a+v/IN9ATtlb8SNf56pSa/khghribAItDi9JD7mYFuyzsPRNBggFe+/aDYxHPwvqlA0Pv8FAU3xyVzY73njplL0alt5p9rGQjrL+ftaDjz1TbQYJ4rCV2mY6kfzaDyrMRjTOL1UP/puRawv2zN3n12AcuxVm0VyGcZmeIspOnh2dGLkKzADgEmGltoHpEa/pc27Ig== X-YMail-OSG: DJ6vwfAVM1lYTwCA0DyHQQCMO15xOTM3UOu7tfZsyeLHt0RKCOwC9x4cC3jygrR 5peqIMtqP.y84TVacw_zWAi2o6q4MNo27gmM1Fzoco3BllPCvPIkuD8Z0c0StHg3cEFRWd35zbhg RSpxDGtoTJ516UJEurMDvUI7IS2w.B3wojF3kr8fKP.ERc093Zy1ALk.53x6GvEmSQ3YbH2LkzMe lpCP5ieMSEF0v1WR1mGj1nKI5p5sN5HliPw9g7CYuA0jpw3KZjQlGDktpZiE7YmgFJv8n0JVWrT7 QFmRlQEkDJW1IZK8uKsCutU8Cb0x7RWu0vV1NsCXmSrkVhPJrHoZWSCsh8kYsUkgELZJgfB6XnxU aTjXnuv4T.U7TYr4Jh9eDgeNtBz8TYjaWcGg9EKpFJQj3Ewpfo9aBYRewGbxm1lh.ab.MNVP6EeR BRmXRHEv_6oIU13Rd0QnuNQE3AildFczLcjdKHRMXo0WjAlec4q7xgyAHGiSKVc3vKFGZABGwz35 W2AzqunE9E6fBp7.znLpVTkNMLek7.fRA4JvtfH5UiIY.oYvqfaAGmOeO3eOn19jicCoMpOUWfEa 8aJ508OGQRicCSWsLzyatP9sFuVgB94rsN1ItS13Sli23HYBbx.WQuny4mXuQrqrF12UBSItCk5j 4zQVspCdzTf_BjJfJkwIcog87lK.TNQhdY4P2cnDO39BwbIq_xSq4Ql7CAuKt7O.9g_8AN0ZJZGz 9acKEoNgWp.Ne_AQvLGEg3wI9k1t50DDftxfNHVdJyj1TlAs7g6x7pAwTQwRI9uFp9dkoq98j4C. GXs1jkg1hc6xDiZG9hD7hi5nI9AKeeN99_wNjdpN95efAH2Dii0Bvv9wdgQlnMofiAOSMoCQVmOu fOyGCjv.hoNFtEvNyWjKrC0nJdLXfSVoGCWf7g8uamW1VPXNvMx1l3.qScrZULAZPrXsN7JZXsj0 oEuQCEBYpXC88tqaPLGg61onKEQUQSFtKDbaUFGKVz48lhHmph6Xmnr4lBTrAr4aM2iBcvOWhu_A yoYVc.RXy3ULQb4Iw2E3QnGWU1K_4W5efDqzWCTmIwzEA37isxRJxi8C9SPR1Ml56EG2GTdGXUMi AKkdlfNQLCokXRM2hfAW5K9h9ACTAgm9qtwOGaDeuAR_DsYiXyiKeDSV_d48Im.d8XofYmvlyUCO HM8pt5yw4coGkr1C6ptr_qvPfn59_xgmeIpK3HPzh.euu4HWO9SlzlfDg25Dnb5JHc1ktZnuNtE6 RwnAqQ0uq_RPd5zd5uljBq1VAiH7cqp12SFR9CFbKh2xkm_89.Duo0PmZfCREjfNYUHyrPjJCiX3 flidh7QQ3QmyTOAeH11MoPFrX86bzvAYhcT2hqTbvgcVA1cTI0yVKfkHd3jYjULLQx67Zi3drrht st.p7zm.yLOxcERo0Hi8vCY1J3aCiZ2i4But4NBLHAzoMVIEJXDS9OMkTBKmVNnngTwK7Qd9mWqn lNV7qf7khhJdVOZOK2V6udceiKj5g2w5tUzNFMlcltoWrfL4nKee9SqcoidenWVxoJstVIBtX6g3 WJC6JYpDphWaxAotxFxXCxKsoZdZ7bZp1IRd89zF01do5snYbeylYI.1dycJL9yVo.8v1lS6lJrq P6mI4PsObzOFu1XS78nAt77q67pzzeqmjuy9GjIzYp.fPZOLHVnj_rhWtis.8UHdC4ayQmsdTcdu _4nkM76Sy1jSfaGIWPc9vkRhk74qwSvkivso.oPrHqLFPeKuUnv05zCSCDS9XVt4shXKC1II7crF qfTbIiVK0ZdhX1HtlEP9U7Z3VQB.QkgsVoif1o_6OzqT19NGdRckNW8l5RzHTgQzpHIgP0zNflaE HO8_.Ns6R1tU44BpysAmpK40mvze93f869BwFPh4STD2xKJWDihRE4NGLo.Yd1xUdoeBNnQU_qAb ciYpVJQ3lMhaxzJvsFdlkggj_Zg9Ozr.ZPrcm1eORB_QKf9VbPrvVxvXnSLQZ6hDb.2CMhZKjlom Imqo3KuqhpDT6pl5Sxim9T6jAbFgbF6JkC0PJ.agNA6__wZRUE5GEdyYp94kjP6LuJEMELWe14oB f43ToqJUYRk3avP55qqzaisPF0y23OH7SoLukwQk3y34IwC4ewCjZTcnYm4vw0N_zpweTA6EFBVH WUH8jWOD8zB7.SnmEebgBLQ7mjw5yY6rtKhDkDSaTrgHrbO_hpoqPZW3KnbcZld3E.K3u51QeA6P r7lTV_bEqOc.5eWEC9QJoOlohbX.ai5a1UfDYO.0RedyA5qfBfrUCrn61TQnY X-Sonic-MF: Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic312.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 03:20:24 +0000 Received: by hermes--canary-production-sg3-67975bbd4b-qg7qj (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 01fa8975c9da8c79da798fa499f13727; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 03:20:20 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` References: <83zgh5mcqk.fsf@gnu.org> <52FF0BFF-F19C-4ABA-82BE-8FE3277B726D@acm.org> <83lespm50p.fsf@gnu.org> <87cze0bmn6.fsf@yahoo.com> <83bktkmrwx.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 11:20:14 +0800 In-Reply-To: <83bktkmrwx.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 20 Jul 2022 05:36:30 +0300") Message-ID: <877d48bhch.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20407 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 465 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > If it's rare enough (as it should be), I don't see the annoyance. Am > I missing something? It might be rare, but there's nothing wrong with using lsh for its intended purpose, which is handling negative numbers correctly in several different situations. Byte-compiler warnings are supposed to point out problems. Using lsh is not a problem, using lsh incorrectly is, so it should not issue warnings for all uses of lsh. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 20 07:25:08 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2022 11:25:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56008 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oE7pD-0003qb-MO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 07:25:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47392) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oE7pC-0003px-24 for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 07:25:06 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:56050) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oE7p6-0001Q9-JU; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 07:25:00 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=KIRx2JQlBJDS/gT5CCObjFUzlCt6wmhiDPWZB4OK9EU=; b=JkuLLD0+aSrg 3/Cu388+tdHFTmKh2QA1L+x7Z3SGsdP8IC4RKFaSwbkBq1daVT6lt1NKc8C2UL9Ik8VqrTnKiJqLj oMSP0RuaH0CsE6YWPsR+Z04+c1BdZbKg7pfgEdHa/2b88TviYwdgGZ/HN83WSjI3gMvEPiIYdyBoc 5tXFLE1Dzm8AMl+06qVnoYKdEYA4IPE2J/LajfpE1KHxzrIrqS5ZHf9sNa8VQ3H9/JbaBKjo74mu8 WZA5kdM1aYm5AbgvDOscP+Xr6Bo0PRDkBqB5CNkbjnf+bhc8ABwrRfM6aBeZJ0sZuqfXcoobHrJ80 UVRL9knHC/2nQ/Q8dmi3Lw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4163 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oE7p6-00038p-2s; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 07:25:00 -0400 Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 14:24:50 +0300 Message-Id: <838room3gd.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Po Lu In-Reply-To: <877d48bhch.fsf@yahoo.com> (message from Po Lu on Wed, 20 Jul 2022 11:20:14 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` References: <83zgh5mcqk.fsf@gnu.org> <52FF0BFF-F19C-4ABA-82BE-8FE3277B726D@acm.org> <83lespm50p.fsf@gnu.org> <87cze0bmn6.fsf@yahoo.com> <83bktkmrwx.fsf@gnu.org> <877d48bhch.fsf@yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Po Lu > Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, mattiase@acm.org, 56641@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 11:20:14 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > If it's rare enough (as it should be), I don't see the annoyance. Am > > I missing something? > > It might be rare, but there's nothing wrong with using lsh for its > intended purpose, which is handling negative numbers correctly in > several different situations. The point is that people could use lsh because they don't realize they could use ash instead. If one really must use lsh, there's always with-no-warnings, which is IMO fine for the rare situations where it's needed. > Byte-compiler warnings are supposed to point out problems. And this could indeed be a problem: that the programmer is not aware of a better alternative. So I don't see a problem with warning in this case, I just don't want us to pretend this function is "obsolete", because it isn't. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 20 07:57:39 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2022 11:57:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56044 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oE8Kg-0006q7-Ru for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 07:57:39 -0400 Received: from mail18c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.28]:50902) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oE8Kc-0006pw-24 for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 07:57:37 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1658318252; bh=TUC6wSBWjokmysJnfXxRpuXi0WFBwj2wgiy14foY6TU=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=cwnrwSDARIXegOozygFViyJbx2A0PgZp5dNaDPy40wcOJ81qdjdWAzpKdx8K+IKcY Md/RX/94iEFIOaaEM9bDh/S1mgpQwYz1k2/cQmE4KGqecDEQwtfxnLUEqpOFnct9iB SjQ0RDuMRBzWKfaKy+Bia7pza/shAOaLD0Bdheyw= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c188-150.188-179.bredband.tele2.se [188.150.188.179] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail18c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 26KBvSTA070972; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 11:57:29 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <877d48bhch.fsf@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 13:57:27 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <752C35EB-B86F-4D5B-863D-D9AFDFE20A66@acm.org> References: <83zgh5mcqk.fsf@gnu.org> <52FF0BFF-F19C-4ABA-82BE-8FE3277B726D@acm.org> <83lespm50p.fsf@gnu.org> <87cze0bmn6.fsf@yahoo.com> <83bktkmrwx.fsf@gnu.org> <877d48bhch.fsf@yahoo.com> To: Po Lu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F1B.62D7EDAC.0025, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 20 juli 2022 kl. 05.20 skrev Po Lu : > It might be rare, but there's nothing wrong with using lsh for its > intended purpose, which is handling negative numbers correctly in > several different situations. Content analysis details: (2.0 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [91.136.10.28 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) -0.0 T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE No description available. 1.0 MAY_BE_FORGED Relay IP's reverse DNS does not resolve to IP X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , stefankangas@gmail.com, 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 20 juli 2022 kl. 05.20 skrev Po Lu : > It might be rare, but there's nothing wrong with using lsh for its > intended purpose, which is handling negative numbers correctly in > several different situations. The purpose of `lsh` is not breaking old code. (It used to have a = different purpose but it vanished when bignums were introduced.) There is no reasonable use for it in new code. Even in the unlikely = event of code that just happens to need that sort of quirky behaviour, = it is much better implemented explicitly where it's used, in terms of = `ash`. > Byte-compiler warnings are supposed to point out problems. Using lsh = is > not a problem You are right that most uses of `lsh` are perfectly innocuous but that's = because they are used in a way where `ash` would give the same result. = This is often true even when the return values of `lsh` and `ash` = differ, as in (logand (lsh x -16) #xff) which would give the same result even for negative x if `lsh` were = replaced with `ash`. However there is a potential problem since the behaviour of `lsh` is = strongly platform-dependent, and it's impossible to write correct code = without taking that into account (consider replacing -16 with -24 = above). Users may not be aware of how it works and mistakenly think it = is the 'unsigned' or 'logical' shift that they know from other = languages. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 20 08:22:18 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2022 12:22:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56242 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oE8iY-0007cx-JX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 08:22:18 -0400 Received: from sonic309-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.184.146]:35348) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oE8iX-0007ci-3G for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 08:22:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1658319730; bh=Hwk9YkG3euhnxYrMkPu7weGJPNsEqMA+6MlIc1jplZE=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=NBp8hS0HWCi/Ja4laDp+BIqvvvapmtdXTmOjanTqwhZZVK7ILfeQXb1p7v89DX2puOWNfxa0T3B91VZ34HjMPncE0GDukPNtNF9niNDycTIXebm6R5wERVOGb5P7+DV6cZplw23UACLU2pwAkqX1Kv9jblxnE3E+75G4OxHsK9bVQaIXnqbt0eUe74CMPKmj/FYox99llLSzJkLP52jQ8ct1UwqnLMLWv1KTTdVV5UTzteB3kxGbimwotKnyn/KpnCAgW5bVU3nzvEbZ9WRiP+scg2MO+ILMNNeFoIoJ01tn4OClaFT+LVazPhLp7Ynd+mkIVh14H0FS1fVs7Z/xTw== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1658319730; bh=StT8di2xBYVLj0f1JlXsObx4+mOXh7TiUkUMghsaFjx=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=nbgA/F7rPFouNj1p+UQsq7ghovBPMWp0mdgQUvP0fBkKz8kR0cu0rl+OwhRrF5dick9fcyI24aN3YEtAjvNWCHrOuUhlsja3vaSZ+RZRuA4ASLyhYgr0S6OZoUUHHx+XaytSuHhesFMyjoCI45h7RoY0S7pY6OHj7ISSv/M0Kd868BjELstU8XcpW7vBLdPd5m5I/JocIYNNrmnpZIxkT5WpILy6HoVRLXvY4Y8VkJEMMMfqyMMcmr8bodQntaHHsryFIvCXEopa1++H8Aj/tRPJlol+4L0fxorQZx2u/k0/kbJxHvTUJZ0OL35pYjVFsr7sNeobSfd/4ZbJ6+NGgg== X-YMail-OSG: nlVn6hoVM1nOVCXwIIzn.JPS_dIwrE_T_MFcANqStRxJPXf1vKiU1zUy5rG9zDK mb8QSXn9WNXFxgCLNwlYeShwS6rXf07w4JnwuufxgX2Ks_TH6DUghj7tgMK4VrAwnJp.kwPeYF2M zJqcoiwSrVT3zRPr9YY1zoo.5jrG_hXNPMkzO1gOTVDb.40OL1zNpN40_iVa8ni9Xk9_rPQd5fhD uY9WVuYhfhpUbF0ixhrSl6KfpkLkCSQN9Gr_YnLQfkGhX6b3APH_KNJIqfF0jT5FPKPkI7eJpamC Fis7YZXUyttcaXI9Keafdt.RTsnMUlZJ.drMs1Uo_KO7ti4Ihc5KD16JWFdQJcuZFYzC77iErhOJ wbwxokfl39HQb1Czgi0HWbfZ8NiSuKfGcBy7tPKESsChhYR9BCCGxbyiDTNYIAPFSCd2VGTbqCoh MX1hmk_Nbc5auoyJVqAfXJbOYQbIvX9Gz8a01ko5fzLKu0dMkNuxFv7NWIoC9HsJAjboHlCnn7Ur kJOSuHc.UDrt2ds0308mTObyL8N_N6gtm.WLb43YtoeNgm5scILq4akF4H6PO2_871djc4yed09s CPPzGRwet5LE1gk_vsJvMBTdiJlVp7XbL8gTh7MMkTTzzxPF8bJzPXCp6EiGKoh8PXby3AF9StRh ZBV_3hG7yfgy4pl1INJauxn53NkimxKAdoPEHLOxSlsBO5o4Lwqy6XFxrkv8m_YU_lIdo2SJK7Rj z8mx2ZvhzSC2wmCzNOHcgDJ5Ig9AbEt9V9JiTFNvCnEyC18q4NUh.7PGYzEGyXRoeBCj_b3tN8yT uKOYDZRqr0OyUCgoW9pOhP0ERWHRRxvcejRywaXl4BjYTeLMmRYYhNjIoGZkQa7u1NH1YvnsAwA8 3DPKfIXpt7Do745YU35ZC2jKRc.8ZJzMLhRDYks.YKMnXpBiwX88VJISB1CKvkPbvQBs_a3FsguG bo.4Wzbl_QzEqEw9lE.gf0yTUw8wqqWjsNulPMbog0Y5Rbmt3U3WZCr1cXUhXSAJVj2y6iFkUe2k Ge0PwgF84MyuqBMepEaE28p729q3MyxcjK0ExIlHnnKptl06dNylft9Dv8KO.M8TSAPaB5FENXUr .7r7U5UTYcF4fVQS6B.wBfOjqajdDK_wwjgKlMgFp4eFG77V5QbAnnZ5HVtTclDD8elEGf5x1QkR If1h9.JcY6tsJCBLHmx.6ff47e8u_E_o6zrA3BmiSyi54fTCIN0Hza_DixmAaCcWOz_1F8KLtgat UfFfbhR4CtNhU7GAj4w8NKm8udGFs0r1VNWmJhs_XP43UmwBKRGAYvy1nYiQ2o806DhjUChH8Bwz lywUMpTQYpmZKaE1vBcmb6fTU1qFr3jpirr35oDhftXsn0giRLCVtRICsDSJMKre.nc.rDUZcr3O n_ACEeCEVuTACb.e9FyBBRafvMcuaLI6Z5D40pFiOEmXJlTRJNoQKTOlJZrbdEYuKR3MxTO51flN VaS2.sJOLoAaJk02.tpxV3IF827.piO97cg3tKpSGdr_BxvTyyOd4sYnvnd6KG8aK.ds2nYFUIn2 hgmZNzJstNF.6kYvDyFRHxzCJBa5F08IuG.o72OMDy2uId.VxjJRPLBkF0qnQlqToYgnUnce60sP TheIIYzCOmftYP2CuJgd6YGX4UTIck4.kJ94LOuWDNo._qodv6QrWmDBxURW.yoALk83lq93gc01 n17Yamc4D9A6WftZ7Cwe2odOvapBIj.vkmcq39zKjsvMUrj1TtUS4Hy0fZEJ3oas3XwqL4M7MqAS 8IPWhuuO_pNZ2iPXt6Vg8gugYLuwqohoxVcRXPdbiPBxaw7X9otrJu7LWlN1DjhChvlVd3rjKzoF gGvgM4s0rqsMr5wDshfFv.fwc4_kw4nWsxqoDCdLP2vZRP1vF5auCCWomiyVrmR2Owis0gKafVzM yYYeQi0Ru9jH0LvE4dc_Pi7ZWBi91MpNN_PVjCr5AE.NsZl78OOCD3MDx540vdyO.AffZj6PJ0a1 1pk53A.yI5XEcWcxgM2shvSemlL8vkihE9vYyfWMm9vG3HTuX2xkq3KPfMvvlrt7xed6RWm6OOe9 kEvLwUwfiHTqIuM6YiUPt75u3gF7CX7PvSkPIwZQiTEtjfaj1camVR9rY1a4RhTEQ85n0KOusz5i WbCU_pNQl5G4hMM96gN32lC5mUtYafznmE.AhU0gKiCi1nCPb5Fz.tbZri.RJdz9998QmhMG_54z owKI0pm81QkkHJ0DoTVHTSSxHWljhlXaad338D2F3k1XfXvEuNuQvk5rFcN_8PAI- X-Sonic-MF: Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic309.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 12:22:10 +0000 Received: by hermes--canary-production-sg3-67975bbd4b-27vvd (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID b2f13d9945ee70d649835fa700b664b4; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 12:22:05 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` References: <83zgh5mcqk.fsf@gnu.org> <52FF0BFF-F19C-4ABA-82BE-8FE3277B726D@acm.org> <83lespm50p.fsf@gnu.org> <87cze0bmn6.fsf@yahoo.com> <83bktkmrwx.fsf@gnu.org> <877d48bhch.fsf@yahoo.com> <752C35EB-B86F-4D5B-863D-D9AFDFE20A66@acm.org> Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 20:21:59 +0800 In-Reply-To: <752C35EB-B86F-4D5B-863D-D9AFDFE20A66@acm.org> ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Wed, 20 Jul 2022 13:57:27 +0200") Message-ID: <87k0889dp4.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20407 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 773 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , stefankangas@gmail.com, 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > The purpose of `lsh` is not breaking old code. (It used to have a > different purpose but it vanished when bignums were introduced.) > There is no reasonable use for it in new code. So you're saying there is no possible use for expecting the value of this: (lsh most-negative-fixnum -1) to become: #x1000000000000000 > Even in the unlikely event of code that just happens to need that sort > of quirky behaviour, it is much better implemented explicitly where > it's used, in terms of `ash`. Why is that better? What business does the byte compiler, or some idea of "platform independence" have in dictating that I should write extra code (instead of using something built-in) to implement a network protocol? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 20 08:45:08 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2022 12:45:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56293 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oE94e-0008Dg-8W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 08:45:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39992) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oE94c-0008Cu-Lq for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 08:45:06 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:58578) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oE94X-0000u3-D7; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 08:45:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=FYlboKJENdlzNxtR4KQ85v3v4Hp0Rgbdf9Q+o4ZifBU=; b=mRieiVCU3vVx bVfNGaL2HWIyqFJPM2JRMy6oUMs+wGeOoo+9yedE1D8x6axRL6nY656VhQ17u8qPCbNYEiZoWXOtX tzBIclePgdelXAOHxoHYOibjG8G2gIZC6O2JHUabn1+IyLKVPwj0BQAT+4gJ5Gs0HSRVi1/Apbzhd PBUIQY3tOvkJkadcz65vFFhCbOfqpuXOdY3xpYxxMYR/BnlzKi0WZ+KzOkeeDd17GXp6GICG0I9pK /3I0fkx5bVNXcZeALLBwMsCFXr4/jrxCTMUv6mDZqSdSJVEiIqwmtw+tNrvsbP+Xe6T6riLu64Z5C KnDV8vkdVMVgV1aFrjWpeg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1258 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oE94W-0002rS-SI; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 08:45:01 -0400 Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 15:44:50 +0300 Message-Id: <83tu7ckl6l.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Po Lu In-Reply-To: <87k0889dp4.fsf@yahoo.com> (message from Po Lu on Wed, 20 Jul 2022 20:21:59 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` References: <83zgh5mcqk.fsf@gnu.org> <52FF0BFF-F19C-4ABA-82BE-8FE3277B726D@acm.org> <83lespm50p.fsf@gnu.org> <87cze0bmn6.fsf@yahoo.com> <83bktkmrwx.fsf@gnu.org> <877d48bhch.fsf@yahoo.com> <752C35EB-B86F-4D5B-863D-D9AFDFE20A66@acm.org> <87k0889dp4.fsf@yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Po Lu > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , stefankangas@gmail.com, > 56641@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 20:21:59 +0800 > > What business does the byte compiler, or some idea of "platform > independence" have in dictating that I should write extra code > (instead of using something built-in) to implement a network > protocol? It isn't the byte compiler, it's us the Emacs developers. And no, you don't need to write any extra code, as long as you are prepared to ignore the warnings. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 20 10:30:36 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2022 14:30:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58475 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oEAii-0003AH-0w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 10:30:36 -0400 Received: from mail233c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.243]:45898 helo=mail37c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oEAid-00039v-L3 for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 10:30:34 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1658327429; bh=+ViOdRA81mMXqCMk67F4itXROfWQX+hTcSZOjJ2yg5o=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=aOOBTRYNMvKO7iWDnQXWkfj2kbdXDQE/rUVrZ2LFWe8cjSahK12z+j4Knh1eB3TVG DRkhLasEIfr6ozA7l0MULQ1PYnL/r3r4qAofx9uNsk9j2TDcZcAWcjuea16ybu9XwB /pe1xVes1ClJKhimsvRViEtGasjNft+/nyI85+Yg= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c188-150.188-179.bredband.tele2.se [188.150.188.179] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail37c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 26KEUQVO125919; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 14:30:27 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <87k0889dp4.fsf@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 16:30:25 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <83zgh5mcqk.fsf@gnu.org> <52FF0BFF-F19C-4ABA-82BE-8FE3277B726D@acm.org> <83lespm50p.fsf@gnu.org> <87cze0bmn6.fsf@yahoo.com> <83bktkmrwx.fsf@gnu.org> <877d48bhch.fsf@yahoo.com> <752C35EB-B86F-4D5B-863D-D9AFDFE20A66@acm.org> <87k0889dp4.fsf@yahoo.com> To: Po Lu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F19.62D81185.0054, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 20 juli 2022 kl. 14.21 skrev Po Lu : > So you're saying there is no possible use for expecting the value of > this: > > (lsh most-negative-fixnum -1) > > to become: > > #x1000000000000000 Content analysis details: (2.4 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) -0.0 T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE No description available. 1.0 MAY_BE_FORGED Relay IP's reverse DNS does not resolve to IP 0.4 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , stefankangas@gmail.com, 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 20 juli 2022 kl. 14.21 skrev Po Lu : > So you're saying there is no possible use for expecting the value of > this: >=20 > (lsh most-negative-fixnum -1) >=20 > to become: >=20 > #x1000000000000000 That is only true when Emacs has been built for 62-bit fixnums. And no, = I don't see an obvious use other than for compatibility. > What business does the byte compiler, or some idea > of "platform independence" have in dictating that I should write extra > code (instead of using something built-in) to implement a network > protocol? It sounds as if we are talking past one another. If you have a network = protocol that is somehow defined in terms of the size of fixnums in a = particular build of Emacs, then yes, I'd say that most people would = think that your code should make that explicit. But you certainly don't need lsh to handle arbitrary binary data; it's = not even convenient. I'm not saying that you are wrong; perhaps I don't = understand your needs. We could add functions for depositing and extracting bit fields in an = integer, basically encapsulating the common shift-and-mask operations. = That would make bit field manipulation less error-prone without = compromising speed or portability. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 20 21:44:03 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2022 01:44:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36358 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oELEQ-0005SG-Ni for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 21:44:03 -0400 Received: from sonic311-25.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.188.206]:38902) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oELEN-0005Rd-Oc for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 21:44:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1658367834; bh=OvCLX/sXtggubxfhrgImgMDG2YX6BbJ1iIGZKHmlNbY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=mVzXL0DcjbLfiRnwXRu6b7NFYNbtX9xJEroWbXybEn9Z3uwibVVhXO5wItL2TT+Rv2SaaoVarp7xPQKKlg5HBA/XTZv1ujaQ49GyxUOXiMaimKYRRN/Zv9JqOil+vtAp51opYoYUESxJe6h6Hqwv7CrwzLSb9lh/khD9KG8H38TJL8ui1xmAzzIIho3i60tlXQLHFweWEr4rjZ08ekBvJH7slo+PNsrBdj/uCkRUX0IErfqPdoQsp3dut708KtztoPomq/HqdreXBaVKx03k2TmypnToSzg7ct2x9VryCN1inj5VfCcr3OZkHPFIjVXKJb2m5oGQT2YgGI2PBZApwQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1658367834; bh=xYB1pkCIde174/oGd4i9jcFqAfWAGaHDalwgxVYIzw8=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=SuEZMgR157Cnpc/8Kv156BW48QBMtigAhT2htkzooB4nVFEt/CdhT4SVJZd/hYE6i/tqED7pJdtWGhYKB4mmpyU+dKccnqtVwPB09crKc/1cGire1xY9SdZIeOudQyxpIhnf65iM3PAkAdUPHgOzbrTtz0LeBZlEHjCfpgTCaEHwzymq8EyXVxkd4pX2phw9E95q03YGDy13A6zvGTtF/Uz3+PMd5vLCc3j6f8ssc0l77YdpfiSCEXdub9YjJexFMqCa4qHRq8SdpNcB5zHJSsJoHbTpqTauHjwZdu/fy1ngx5VaSxZLC0WYQSdizYemMOUCvSs44yJymf7zd2Ovwg== X-YMail-OSG: 52rhdnwVM1lD7HhHo.UIxvJSu8uLmZWCv9q1ET.UAcSZmLgqnuA1uHZLgwYlGPK 1Zj5SHzbn9P6vEmw4YUgmmBrTmPpCW8QGpAwPL1lCDHBYjg7xPkIfJJYySlv8OpQ8RI5LFMTX1HC SykK6.QrEVaIwv5CBs5kCxI9VR2VVbFnGsoNoxnp1wlNYLY7NT7c9t48BaN4SroW.u1kWZulXOIz Q96GNfuOZE0Prjxg9EjjrShqkP3iIBkPm.LLXavEWYNyTPgsOqG5O7IHeq7iVy8FjyWKSCXZ4J9o PqtK.nn8Fu9puLTscBfhh6hWS4orXP5GhoKSpG0SRzOEUpFCB6WzFHi5nD2X37ttkkqTFcWPGVjp xHaMd5rnTDxhDOu1mftu5lDHnF5LIHb7pLuu8eY5jzlDCMlYKkDiK6Mcw_OR2vSAmOcPmRR6Fp2T WtggKgKcQbnZke2p9Nlx1cpAE_PEuw41.NPRkwc.60DSlx0pDn11G3U5MqR_q.CI7oZhb4wYtTKW 1yuGA2QB8_nbS9eI4.7Ttfp6Ab_R31sTVUgMjhdLZnPvBnxbQ1D.bO7_LNacm0HtA_EXL.68ZZvo adwGn6i9Ilpw28aGC1p4fQK50McoNM8N57LkqTeWHvu6rje10VnOVbj.ehQVM6jCmIwl1ktlyWZb SDXlLICQudsgBQp7owIFosFuL0X8VhchFNI1drwt.SPiDxUzcHeh34dmf1AE4.LsYASNvxrQzoRT seSFQIvsM5KWJJl.KrtMHNCPySFirDyAelq_xnGqJsZXHskLmSasHJrhQ7erp1mcCRUAQm.t4fYJ Pv2Qu0eC3QrLIBYomqemBSUzPo7EM6En9NuYcZslEJTH.DiT0r90Urp7E1bHNGF00Qa7.Gt7u.Sm NaN1aeUjQYh3yKX_MrrVjfDslIWnOxbCTf8TYP2C7IgYwddefPscBrbRof2eWkzKS0RNmEsgH3AI K7D65KcmcHrVgKGCJYe2NTimH9T6.vPGHgH5zfEs8pbzI2y1m.PQffuE9uYJA6SqhtNpBRmifpXi ay2nrLkfxq0iu48Ja7r9Xbj36u2fob9Z3CEYyXJtUDklxjue9oz3SEBglKuY1jU7vs05Uhbtyz0U Wdyf60.UpWAhkDqFDw0Sb7I.VVQYnteR6PU1Ko0iBtQNLmgVbuCK8pTgIKndGFt7dxxIUI81Fx0k PkETlB_7h9suSzd1JFdOLVCzhMLJUVM8NlHQWgUVOT2wRyrEoAH5sdkBgdHRmyFiNcbD.HcG4AjY ErWc2uat_oLaWJi_UnGZAv9ggPxlVIXgncG5LoWl7YdzxxmtXjc4f9cxA7wDz3l6koI9ejq1YKoV TiMmtvVDgNvM9nYWoGahAyCrd3XLr9t.WhyLOsvTMFQYe_YDJMxJBfsBwjgS80OwjIMk1QROu1Cn 1SjCmHcJrh65ABrcXf.37hz5I97cLhIAWNGo2Nyvs1wKDDfl22se5P9oDUtn7a4hsGYbpjhkrMyI wX6RdHbUs4gvsBJAfAN9oQ5H1saLo9YndVOfNvGSee9TftSH19sqo4mTiQIwYEnsuUBYSl6.lP9d gvxZ3.WeKx5XjSw1P.kCJtk10QofJn5kRmk2_G3NjYDPQHlWX3J8Po0OuzOKbbNHJc4ADmY66lI2 EMMQGVLCXwpVCxLQp3pt2wrDSCJFgWJqdaDmbcalIh8kAeViFY9UU22Apej1nWiNfeMr6eTiCzAr bltWsKyst6HRUmDPZdxj5npiy3H5fiL90j.EJCzq_Z4QKhVGtXifekHKs19HT4shgVi9TuD9cI0B r4ds9tQ_xpS7P5jKhcGE4JOFsWzKUXq0UsnK681XaRELwi58gjoR5SP4MiZG5eJniQmpo2xgv7Bn irMH3T3G8Imzl0.mDOg.D8mpR0K3i0tO.h29Qz4Da4yRLFZ4rN6Q28Xg6nlTvFiwE7jBGlGzC_TM tF5X37NHHIQYGBL.34BiSOmP8VWPPNLVX6K.iyPOW0aWTNyPxyRrVNOLvfNhAz2UZmUPJvl73eko Yb7fdeMKJB4y4ynKWLoGvn0QGQ1NsMslTLWBVwHKSV5syNNrBCxLh5DSnT8kS4MNZioZIyR8XCMd grZEKFWk2l_QRreSAORH9g6OylGOJpFqu2Oqxpk5aJu5lSP8fg67TrfIrr.7yhDI76Z2P5qhnTuv mwh.E_LRzc5R0g31PvrXAWZsvJQIqS9FpA9xMS80RjWYDZHt9O0sA2NOkVKuGZbcSEXLQkI6N8Vr 0821eLEd.UFxt5CdX4l5dnYsE6gHsYcdk76kt.wiM._M6jAQwgB1Sv2YPzL3hjTE- X-Sonic-MF: Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic311.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 21 Jul 2022 01:43:54 +0000 Received: by hermes--canary-production-sg3-67975bbd4b-w2clr (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID e09f8fd3000e6cd20e006c7fd5707fdb; Thu, 21 Jul 2022 01:43:50 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` References: <83zgh5mcqk.fsf@gnu.org> <52FF0BFF-F19C-4ABA-82BE-8FE3277B726D@acm.org> <83lespm50p.fsf@gnu.org> <87cze0bmn6.fsf@yahoo.com> <83bktkmrwx.fsf@gnu.org> <877d48bhch.fsf@yahoo.com> <752C35EB-B86F-4D5B-863D-D9AFDFE20A66@acm.org> <87k0889dp4.fsf@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 09:43:44 +0800 In-Reply-To: ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Wed, 20 Jul 2022 16:30:25 +0200") Message-ID: <87y1wn8ckv.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20447 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 361 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , stefankangas@gmail.com, 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > That is only true when Emacs has been built for 62-bit fixnums. And > no, I don't see an obvious use other than for compatibility. Which is the obvious use? For compatibility with programs (not necessarily within Emacs) that expect different values based on the number of VALBITs in the Emacs machine file? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 21 03:48:01 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jul 2022 07:48:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36597 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oEQue-0007Ni-OJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2022 03:48:01 -0400 Received: from mail18c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.28]:53422) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oEQuc-0007NE-2G for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2022 03:47:59 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1658389676; bh=aQ1CeNKUffeNLDCAyF090Z0cKWlq/jiGZM4k0VTZN3c=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=iTVW1mVNmlRJgsQkQLq/3L926c6phvTx9XHaApvbWh2uUtmM/03yt7Xd/btN24MIO 3VOVB6lPxehMkk/8oi+BYu7mbQh6tiGCTWapD6uj1FfK9jBlAo4BUFtubRoNv/ht/e fSnbfPci16GaPFDbWr9AEkMqW+cwm/a+LMXNSMis= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c188-150.188-179.bredband.tele2.se [188.150.188.179] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail18c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 26L7lr1g076102; Thu, 21 Jul 2022 07:47:55 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <87y1wn8ckv.fsf@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 09:47:52 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <759888C8-0176-4293-BA47-984EB3E7061B@acm.org> References: <83zgh5mcqk.fsf@gnu.org> <52FF0BFF-F19C-4ABA-82BE-8FE3277B726D@acm.org> <83lespm50p.fsf@gnu.org> <87cze0bmn6.fsf@yahoo.com> <83bktkmrwx.fsf@gnu.org> <877d48bhch.fsf@yahoo.com> <752C35EB-B86F-4D5B-863D-D9AFDFE20A66@acm.org> <87k0889dp4.fsf@yahoo.com> <87y1wn8ckv.fsf@yahoo.com> To: Po Lu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F22.62D904AC.0012, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 21 juli 2022 kl. 03.43 skrev Po Lu : > Which is the obvious use? For compatibility with programs (not > necessarily within Emacs) that expect different values based on the > number of VALBITs in the Emacs machine file? Content analysis details: (2.0 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [91.136.10.28 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 1.0 MAY_BE_FORGED Relay IP's reverse DNS does not resolve to IP X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , stefankangas@gmail.com, 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 21 juli 2022 kl. 03.43 skrev Po Lu : > Which is the obvious use? For compatibility with programs (not > necessarily within Emacs) that expect different values based on the > number of VALBITs in the Emacs machine file? Honestly I don't know. Even before Emacs 27, `lsh` seems a bit = questionable since the width is both platform-dependent and unlike C, = say, isn't a particularly useful size. It doesn't correspond to anything = in hardware, isn't a power of two or anything like that. It could be code that expects (lsh x -29) to return the sign bit as 1 or = 0, as some kind of 'optimisation', what do I know. Also see bug#32463 for some discussion about lsh during the transition = to bignums. Basically everyone agreed that it's useless but that it = probably needs to be kept for compatibility in some way. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 23 03:26:18 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jul 2022 07:26:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43148 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oF9Wj-0005Fd-TZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 03:26:18 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47776) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oF9Wh-0005FF-FW for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 03:26:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=am2K4cGMZOltFd/eTgMNBN6QIHJsYolLPv1CLLnpvYg=; b=tjnoMZ9YMBoEFjJa4bfn0/8HK/ XJ5BU1aBvJsampRYmhPPqOz1MBC9cZo4I/xWnKqhjAnHplvJoDT/Au2oF/PG+7hVPBDRUQYEA/it+ r6BJ/TRzeK0ZiH8ebbdIrATd+FA7p3djYIcn8KZTrdOCZ/RCdOOR+mgxPB6XUFHI3c0s=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oF9WX-0008DW-5k; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 09:26:07 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` In-Reply-To: ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Tue, 19 Jul 2022 15:38:29 +0200") References: X-Now-Playing: Boris's _COSMOS Re-Master + Live_: "Cosmos Part 3" Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 09:26:04 +0200 Message-ID: <87a69047eb.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Mattias Engdegård writes: > The function `lsh` works almost like `ash` but is much slower, cannot > be constant-folded by the compiler, and above all has confusing > semantics for historical reasons. Using `lsh` instead of `as [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > The function `lsh` works almost like `ash` but is much slower, cannot > be constant-folded by the compiler, and above all has confusing > semantics for historical reasons. Using `lsh` instead of `ash` is > always a mistake. > > For these reasons we should deprecate `lsh`. It is not important to > remove it as soon as possible, but to dissuade people from > accidentally using it in their code. I agree. I think the presence of `lsh' just confuses people. Even when Emacs didn't have bignums it was pretty odd, but I have absolutely no idea what any theoretical use case would be today. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 23 06:32:33 2022 Received: (at 56641-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jul 2022 10:32:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43602 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oFCQz-0001Ny-Fc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 06:32:33 -0400 Received: from mail205c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.10.215]:34704 helo=mail193c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oFCQv-0001Nj-PA for 56641-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 06:32:32 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1658572347; bh=g17Q2KQKMz4SGZ44EJvtDQRTWpH9/z68w8NtX5Tf8Kc=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=Ebi3rXNa75Db30S7ZjUu9sEy5bL1QbAceQkracc8iaVNkrVMYajW/mOdeHPFCbxlH ltq6LRabK4dkSDyUNMTECNbtLoteqiUeGFrFcJFrko4Ib5fMNwCpfUTRCsTbpu2xYJ SngMOpBciIzyuCAPSaOv4EOUeFKLa3+F/W+n6/R8= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c188-150.188-179.bredband.tele2.se [188.150.188.179] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail193c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 26NAWPbw026945; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 10:32:26 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <87a69047eb.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 12:32:24 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4C2D62F6-0581-4E0D-8C2A-AC5235C976A5@acm.org> References: <87a69047eb.fsf@gnus.org> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F16.62DBCE3B.002E, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: There is now a compiler warning about calls to `lsh`. Although we usually defer changes in verilog-mode.el to the maintainer for keeping in sync with the upstream version, I made the necessary (trivial) adjustments to keep warnings away. Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [91.136.10.215 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 1.0 MAY_BE_FORGED Relay IP's reverse DNS does not resolve to IP X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641-done Cc: 56641-done@debbugs.gnu.org, Wilson Snyder X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) There is now a compiler warning about calls to `lsh`. Although we usually defer changes in verilog-mode.el to the maintainer = for keeping in sync with the upstream version, I made the necessary = (trivial) adjustments to keep warnings away. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 23 07:20:38 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jul 2022 11:20:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43673 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oFDBW-00034i-Ig for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 07:20:38 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:50450) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oFDBU-00034Q-4E for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 07:20:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=qDqOp1YiJlc7Io3Ac7OtsXqvVD+QJKM/JCiLeiIH5eI=; b=du8MbS+2Sv276Jcl2OIUX4xk95 rNb3vHfd055L4H8gz2hHYYI4Ifh7fzHM7x8Zu4FS1RjQzDpHiz+OGcOaVex38M7TBdb3fLH2y+itH KRtq+IQmaXk1Oko5AAM5ZyOTSlLVOAoNyvsUnxnWo+BHGV61UlN+W3xNEx4ZPFvgBmB8=; Received: from [176.75.79.71] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oFDBH-0001d5-EG; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 13:20:26 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` In-Reply-To: <4C2D62F6-0581-4E0D-8C2A-AC5235C976A5@acm.org> ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Sat, 23 Jul 2022 12:32:24 +0200") References: <87a69047eb.fsf@gnus.org> <4C2D62F6-0581-4E0D-8C2A-AC5235C976A5@acm.org> Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 13:20:22 +0200 Message-ID: <87pmhwrs7d.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Mattias Engdegård writes: > There is now a compiler warning about calls to `lsh`. Eli didn't agree with that, I think? I was just expressing an opinion, and not, er, like saying "go forth and deprecate". :-/ Sorry for being unclear. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: 'Eli Zaretskii' , Wilson Snyder , 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd writes: > There is now a compiler warning about calls to `lsh`. Eli didn't agree with that, I think? I was just expressing an opinion, and not, er, like saying "go forth and deprecate". :-/ Sorry for being unclear. Let's see what Eli says... From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 23 09:18:39 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jul 2022 13:18:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43796 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oFF1i-0000vC-Mh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 09:18:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45050) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oFF1g-0000up-R2 for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 09:18:37 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:38894) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oFF1a-0000zZ-Gw; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 09:18:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=XIoCRPShmqKERz1teGURtaMkNKJmhOqa3we4CqSDv/k=; b=j2XjbHhOOfY2WJvMYGHt 2Lp5C+sGHLl+y8zEMCMF1wQT2lVPeVc0Am4W/AW8xsXagMD9qYg/+r/HiHia7am4+OeVvQWq4eVuR N3Sn4c2hw3hXXGmMwx5kOc1TrcZQz8zeLYaFwa7yPdAAGnio4fyoblAiahb1NB/Yr/10b1k5nPi4M RiCIaI/aK9rclrRXTFl/7d/4pe9bNME9hFJX4fLvGq9VZgbWr0lsjuQwF3J8b+6NzZ5MJoBXh37nH rHQN1OUiCTaXbWfh2Sq276XNekb2tOCpTgFpVYXT4Vdw+GyCqIVW9LLM6jGjRm0NQA4VWzYJy7ZKK kHOWXv7Mk4VZnA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1223 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oFF1Z-0002sk-Ok; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 09:18:30 -0400 Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 16:18:25 +0300 Message-Id: <83h738hsri.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87pmhwrs7d.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sat, 23 Jul 2022 13:20:22 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` References: <87a69047eb.fsf@gnus.org> <4C2D62F6-0581-4E0D-8C2A-AC5235C976A5@acm.org> <87pmhwrs7d.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, wsnyder@wsnyder.org, 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: 56641@debbugs.gnu.org, Wilson Snyder , "'Eli > Zaretskii'" > Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 13:20:22 +0200 > > Mattias Engdegård writes: > > > There is now a compiler warning about calls to `lsh`. > > Eli didn't agree with that, I think? I was just expressing an opinion, > and not, er, like saying "go forth and deprecate". :-/ Sorry for being > unclear. > > Let's see what Eli says... No, I just said the warning shouldn't be about obsoletion. What's in the code is fine by me, it just says to use 'ash' instead. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 23 09:20:34 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jul 2022 13:20:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43801 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oFF3a-0000zz-6X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 09:20:34 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:51390) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oFF3X-0000zd-4k for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 09:20:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=xDUun6RkjNKcQ0ZNZyoAaz0lZeNJtbf/reFAcq70WpI=; b=awg7PHOINaqoJOCISTH+Djtwn5 GoeC7Q4/SDNq+pmt6IjXOswo2k0oCyxkUZhhiTSSEaQVL96dmGduvdk/JjgUQwBkR9as7gKKrHg8P RGsJQtCMeTeeE5xSNBKJo0aQbOffZLn2CCF6uxOE2KygF/RWc6VIqFXrHoO6GbTFZnSQ=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oFF3N-0002R8-A1; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 15:20:23 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` In-Reply-To: <83h738hsri.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 23 Jul 2022 16:18:25 +0300") References: <87a69047eb.fsf@gnus.org> <4C2D62F6-0581-4E0D-8C2A-AC5235C976A5@acm.org> <87pmhwrs7d.fsf@gnus.org> <83h738hsri.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 15:20:20 +0200 Message-ID: <87leskrmnf.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > No, I just said the warning shouldn't be about obsoletion. What's in > the code is fine by me, it just says to use 'ash' instead. Ah, OK. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: mattiase@acm.org, wsnyder@wsnyder.org, 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > No, I just said the warning shouldn't be about obsoletion. What's in > the code is fine by me, it just says to use 'ash' instead. Ah, OK. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 23 11:43:09 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jul 2022 15:43:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46088 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oFHHZ-0008MG-6U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 11:43:09 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f47.google.com ([209.85.221.47]:46669) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oFHHU-0008Lg-A3 for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 11:43:08 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f47.google.com with SMTP id z13so10170495wro.13 for <56641@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 08:43:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tcd.ie; s=google21; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HjNWc/859NlVyojGcIG+IqoMcJdeXfMCcnhAJLfS89o=; b=fQSicFsCVNxaV0ozj+LTclhec9n9Gz7ZxjMYCQSqeOGjiNSCGUzkEUhr3SsIY13udE PRjWx6ncME/yAT7Dk8eJbb4hpceuh9wF612IqhJVK5CxiL+W6oFUFFSW0c41BLujw4Ya Eg+snczVfR3WOgF9pxLoeZX9z3FLBsSG7EJeoXNbN+A3SgGjSOHfggISyyK9ouA2zKNg 8hDavfFyug1rCpNeFYfmp4GsY06qz9uxQvjWgJ+54Q7BI5bylhMW1L7JdX5Z0o/XCX2E W1KbC6tvA6obKBrQCZHpoDm+p2R9yKClWZ2MCurmmyZUnTBF0V/0vnrqIdpnsh9mDsjd ZhJQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HjNWc/859NlVyojGcIG+IqoMcJdeXfMCcnhAJLfS89o=; b=ntLszuh2jLBCYd4ZNqxqYbDX+peZ0L6bXs8i/pLjIDqyMCdwhC1NOnZocBE5kx8+3n I6q77GIiGYibKWaAci7kF74NjBRj5EObdAXfo/5hNuGg0D/+cINy1T5sJptu9XleiLsM eWOcx3iR9OhCkyxnxTqpzoTGoM0mjIasromgJHaGXfdKwuhXc/LxTbYDGWOGQzfBgAJN IvJm5nAwKoDp9F2+1ukxrrsDckegzpCXEDazzhWUUDgU6tpyo0e6z3DOiADh2JZocTUS ECObp3TEHdc3x2Xzz1IIw7WIGf+IiCSzPBGzhHgDwW13OAIvfTg0HIJQOiEZK3gl9CS5 6spw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora+CouBPnO79iuMbLzZFt3O0iMsLaKsLJb523fPAR/7aHJ4uv/t6 TcxtL7U8l0zcqSud+HazY8skU241LqwCzg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1vjlRu/4G8U4k/B/WW+gxLHO4SzteuEWOPUiNZJW1NbTTTmW0Nn0n4LkCnxUxy3A8Hrgsp7pA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:2a4:b0:21e:6e0e:df1f with SMTP id l4-20020a05600002a400b0021e6e0edf1fmr2660145wry.516.1658590977953; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 08:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2a02:587:320a:74a5:f794:77c1:e192:d382]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j13-20020a5d448d000000b002167efdd549sm7138301wrq.38.2022.07.23.08.42.57 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 23 Jul 2022 08:42:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" To: 56641@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` In-Reply-To: <4C2D62F6-0581-4E0D-8C2A-AC5235C976A5@acm.org> ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Sat, 23 Jul 2022 12:32:24 +0200") References: <87a69047eb.fsf@gnus.org> <4C2D62F6-0581-4E0D-8C2A-AC5235C976A5@acm.org> Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 18:42:56 +0300 Message-ID: <87y1wj96nz.fsf@tcd.ie> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: mattiase@acm.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd [2022-07-23 12:32 +0200] wrote: > There is now a compiler warning about calls to `lsh`. Thanks, but the warnings are being stubborn with and not listening to me. Could you please have a word with them? First, they are a bit repetitive in parallel 'make -j8 check': In toplevel form: lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:29:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:29:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:33:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:33:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:37:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:37:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:41:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:41:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:29:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:33:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:37:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:41:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:29:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:33:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:37:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:41:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:29:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:33:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:37:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead lisp/international/ccl-tests.el:41:15: Warning: avoid `lsh'; use `ash' inst= ead Note that each warning is emitted five times. The same happens with src/data-tests.el. Some ERT quirk perhaps? Second, wrapping the respective ert-deftest bodies in (with-suppressed-warnings ((suspicious lsh)) ...) or (with-no-warnings ...) does not actually silence the warnings. Interestingly, suppressing warnings around the whole ert-deftest form eliminates the duplicate warning lines, but still emits the originals. Third, the docstring of with-suppressed-warnings says: The types that can be suppressed with this macro are `free-vars', `callargs', `redefine', `obsolete', `interactive-only', `lexical', `mapcar', `constants' and `suspicious'. For the `mapcar' case, only the `mapcar' function can be used in the symbol list. For `suspicious', only `set-buffer' can be used. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Fourth, the warnings seem to be nondeterministic, sometimes being emitted only for one of the two files in question, and sometimes for neither file (particularly with serial 'make check'). How can these issues be addressed? Thanks, --=20 Basil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 23 12:51:31 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jul 2022 16:51:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46183 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oFILj-0001yg-J6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 12:51:31 -0400 Received: from mail1447c50.megamailservers.eu ([91.136.14.47]:37078 helo=mail265c50.megamailservers.eu) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oFILe-0001y8-RI for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 12:51:30 -0400 X-Authenticated-User: mattiase@bredband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=megamailservers.eu; s=maildub; t=1658595078; bh=wqcchtKK6SCXdRgJSkmJKG/R/vie0RowcTXYD7bnLIQ=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=ZQzMcbQEXKn4ES5cUfKXeumlnNeN67nAta06GjpOqjJxYzQ8tV4QpQyK0H02kqemE 0aDpKiublmRyjzh7rGccZI9E7ohW8HqXrlx3nSTWvuKnrVrgELz/AO+9noYNjFr4bP lYMZQpdJ1tp6hGXHgp8eVLry4h5xZlYfLWL20P6o= Feedback-ID: mattiase@acm.or Received: from smtpclient.apple (c188-150.188-179.bredband.tele2.se [188.150.188.179] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail265c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 26NGpFfK113640; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 16:51:16 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= In-Reply-To: <87y1wj96nz.fsf@tcd.ie> Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 18:51:14 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <47492CDF-AFFA-4B72-9C6F-61A2EE545791@acm.org> References: <87a69047eb.fsf@gnus.org> <4C2D62F6-0581-4E0D-8C2A-AC5235C976A5@acm.org> <87y1wj96nz.fsf@tcd.ie> To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A782F16.62DC2706.003E, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-Origin-Country: SE X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: 23 juli 2022 kl. 17.42 skrev Basil L. Contovounesios : > Thanks, but the warnings are being stubborn with and not listening to > me. Could you please have a word with them? A serious conversation was held and some very frank words were pronounced. Content analysis details: (2.4 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 1.0 MAY_BE_FORGED Relay IP's reverse DNS does not resolve to IP 0.4 KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS Relay HELO differs from its IP's reverse DNS X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 23 juli 2022 kl. 17.42 skrev Basil L. Contovounesios : > Thanks, but the warnings are being stubborn with and not listening to > me. Could you please have a word with them? A serious conversation was held and some very frank words were pronounced. > First, they are a bit repetitive in parallel 'make -j8 check': That was made on purpose to really hammer the point home. > For the `mapcar' case, only the `mapcar' function can be used in > the symbol list. For `suspicious', only `set-buffer' can be used. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Clearly you aren't suspicious enough. > How can these issues be addressed? Why, `git pull` of course! (Sorry about all this, and thanks a lot!) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 23 23:38:25 2022 Received: (at 56641) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jul 2022 03:38:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46649 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oFSRl-0006GF-8c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 23:38:25 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f41.google.com ([209.85.128.41]:54794) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oFSRd-0006Fw-T7 for 56641@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 23:38:23 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f41.google.com with SMTP id n185so4876233wmn.4 for <56641@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 20:38:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tcd.ie; s=google21; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XGdcZzNmNxYp798F+sL2mQi7RMNLe4bJEdETp2Qs0+A=; b=J9vTTaJlS+7K+3TBurXIy249S2OP4+TePWroCvB+LXun9lXhEaEPMQ5g28Zz6W1/4+ LdNiRyVKpLp3gfpENKDwR7ud6zAnnLt55Qvm4l9F9nR2WisbjlYg8xJgKEJuTLSLweqJ wI2Sk08/ZmcTR8VWuJYh2Uj/1/070/oXT5WxuodGtaukwW0Sv5f0dJEou1gwlsEm+hS/ JwSNfA68u6b2tHq01EssR8LyQeM7O/srRcKR9QYeJpG0HIbNhyWaJKSLXsCMkuMkw/aP tuWGvFkuyUxgDHPI92U9O51Yu9O6xztS4borumYwukOZ9W4+ct89YEGdP4pugozwBGM7 NksA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XGdcZzNmNxYp798F+sL2mQi7RMNLe4bJEdETp2Qs0+A=; b=pwjWPZKCFX/iqpWelsb6g+O5B1ctvgM8kEu+OKrbfntThEVlAGY8yWS3vsqN/QOV3w QD8q/P1grdP8NhJuFh9zldR7/qrRt3kOByic06wWKZcwt5s6FvmGycdWwFeiQdvlSai8 HwUhZuNXeiV5chTXooWyQO76tUgyFXEE0IbPrldf9ZzuwxzvRD8M+6p6miMmO2VQdAn2 EYs2Se+AHQRCyr2end7nQsOrHGnNRcXbr+7D3xTgEf4Imn369lX7HIVTa4T1wyFmRTL+ RHZprxd3NBf20sj2+8Z3m09JytpW7qFsdA+Lce58RjGy51yVvCFrM1e9emW/i9CUsjwg CEiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora+jA4/Q40g+XkLRs5wqU7Iyi/Z1fX1zgMr6KAANmv3yotzzNP1K Bk/g2+7pyqxCMIPwt5go5r8btw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1uIjGaWN3nqKraUYaIrZrxgj8YtpbL32vu5FWj0rRAckFxy3bcnnO7XP1QvVnY01jW/6rwGqg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4fc5:b0:3a3:2d73:c147 with SMTP id o5-20020a05600c4fc500b003a32d73c147mr14307600wmq.197.1658633891858; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 20:38:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (109-178-235-215.pat.ren.cosmote.net. [109.178.235.215]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p20-20020a1c5454000000b003a30c3d0c9csm13946100wmi.8.2022.07.23.20.38.10 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 23 Jul 2022 20:38:11 -0700 (PDT) From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= Subject: Re: bug#56641: Deprecate `lsh` In-Reply-To: <47492CDF-AFFA-4B72-9C6F-61A2EE545791@acm.org> ("Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Sat, 23 Jul 2022 18:51:14 +0200") References: <87a69047eb.fsf@gnus.org> <4C2D62F6-0581-4E0D-8C2A-AC5235C976A5@acm.org> <87y1wj96nz.fsf@tcd.ie> <47492CDF-AFFA-4B72-9C6F-61A2EE545791@acm.org> Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 06:38:08 +0300 Message-ID: <87y1wjuqn3.fsf@tcd.ie> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56641 Cc: 56641@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd [2022-07-23 18:51 +0200] wrote: > 23 juli 2022 kl. 17.42 skrev Basil L. Contovounesios : > >> Thanks, but the warnings are being stubborn with and not listening to >> me. Could you please have a word with them? > > A serious conversation was held and some very frank words were pronounced. Is there an RFC for that protocol? It seems to be effective. >> First, they are a bit repetitive in parallel 'make -j8 check': > > That was made on purpose to really hammer the point home. Is it a bug that we don't consistently do that for all warnings? >> For the `mapcar' case, only the `mapcar' function can be used in >> the symbol list. For `suspicious', only `set-buffer' can be used. >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Clearly you aren't suspicious enough. But enough to not be suspiciously unsuspicious. >> How can these issues be addressed? > > Why, `git pull` of course! I picked some of that up from my local pharmacy, and... > (Sorry about all this, and thanks a lot!) ...WFM, thanks! No need to apologise, --=20 Basil From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:26:40 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 11:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator