From unknown Tue Jun 17 03:38:47 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#56524 <56524@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#56524 <56524@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: doc: timezone offset conversion/info Reply-To: bug#56524 <56524@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2025 10:38:47 +0000 retitle 56524 doc: timezone offset conversion/info reassign 56524 coreutils submitter 56524 Karl Berry severity 56524 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 12 18:57:48 2022 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jul 2022 22:57:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43861 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oBOpA-0003eM-84 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 18:57:48 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:39664) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oBOp9-0003eF-0u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 18:57:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53922) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oBOp8-0004nL-Oq for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 18:57:46 -0400 Received: from freefriends.org ([96.88.95.60]:57966) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oBOp5-0000cx-4h for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 18:57:44 -0400 X-Envelope-From: karl@freefriends.org X-Envelope-To: Received: from freefriends.org (freefriends.org [96.88.95.60]) by freefriends.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id 26CMveBa001431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 16:57:41 -0600 Received: (from apache@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id 26CMve7x001430; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 16:57:40 -0600 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 16:57:40 -0600 Message-Id: <202207122257.26CMve7x001430@freefriends.org> From: Karl Berry To: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Subject: doc: timezone offset conversion/info Received-SPF: pass client-ip=96.88.95.60; envelope-from=karl@freefriends.org; helo=freefriends.org X-Spam_score_int: -41 X-Spam_score: -4.2 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) Suppose I have a date in UTC, and I want to "convert" it to a given UTC offset, say UTC-4. Based on the date --help msg and examples, etc., I was under the impression that the idiom is TZ= date -d 'TZ="" ' Thus, in my case: $ TZ=UTC-4 date -d 'TZ="UTC" 2022-07-24 15:00' The output is: Sun Jul 24 19:00:00 UTC 2022 It adds 4 hours instead of subtracting. Why? I'm probably missing something completely obvious, but maybe the doc could explain this. If I use a tz name that is currently UTC-4, it subtracts as expected: $ TZ=America/New_York date -d 'TZ="UTC" 2022-07-24 15:00' Sun Jul 24 11:00:00 EDT 2022 Also, if I interchange the input/output tz settings, it subtracts as expected: $ TZ=UTC date -d 'TZ="UTC-4" 2022-07-24 15:00' Sun Jul 24 11:00:00 UTC 2022 Overall, I suggest another example in the "Examples of date" node. I know UTC offsets are often not the best thing to be using, but sometimes that's the data we're given and we have to work with it. Related: I also suggest explicitly saying how to specify UTC offsets, because it is not clear. For one, apparently UTC+0430 is invalid since it doesn't affect the output (no error message, which I guess is standard): $ TZ=UTC+0430 date -d 'TZ="UTC" 2022-07-24 15:00' Sat Jul 23 15:00:00 UTC 2022 whereas with a colon it works as expected (well, given the above, that it subtracts with a positive offset): $ TZ=UTC+04:30 date -d 'TZ="UTC" 2022-07-24 15:00' Sun Jul 24 10:30:00 UTC 2022 If the offset syntax is documented anywhere, I couldn't find it. Sorry. BTW, in neither case did --debug clarify anything for me. In fact, it confused me more, because the output seemingly did not include anything about the offset at all, just reporting "UTC". This is with coreutils 8.30 (from Alma Linux 8) on x86_64, though I doubted that it was version-dependent, so confess I didn't try the latest release. --thanks, karl. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 12 20:21:11 2022 Received: (at 56524) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jul 2022 00:21:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43932 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oBQ7q-0001b2-Kz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 20:21:11 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:39212) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oBQ7n-0001aQ-PO for 56524@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 20:21:08 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F268160120; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:21:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id qmpWRId3G2CK; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD545160145; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:20:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id IyRIk5EbkOpt; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-172-91-119-151.socal.res.rr.com [172.91.119.151]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9D252160120; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------LBQr0w4WvtJHQ0VX6zOxDUaL" Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:20:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.9.1 Content-Language: en-US To: Karl Berry References: <202207122257.26CMve7x001430@freefriends.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Subject: Re: bug#56524: doc: timezone offset conversion/info In-Reply-To: <202207122257.26CMve7x001430@freefriends.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56524 Cc: 56524@debbugs.gnu.org, Gnulib bugs X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------LBQr0w4WvtJHQ0VX6zOxDUaL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/12/22 15:57, Karl Berry wrote: > $ TZ=UTC-4 date -d 'TZ="UTC" 2022-07-24 15:00' This doesn't mean what you want, because TZ=UTC-4 means "My time zone is abbreviated 'UTC', and it's four hours east of Greenwich" which is not a useful setting. You're not the first person to run afoul of POSIX TZ strings, which are poorly designed. I installed the attached patch to Gnulib to give another example, which I hope clarifies things a bit. I'll cc this email to bug-gnulib since the problem is in Gnulib not Coreutils proper. > If the offset syntax is documented anywhere, I couldn't find it. Sorry. It's documented in the glibc manual, and this part of the Coreutils manual (actually, taken from Gnulib) has a cross-reference to that. > BTW, in neither case did --debug clarify anything for me. In fact, it > confused me more, because the output seemingly did not include anything > about the offset at all, just reporting "UTC". It'd be nice if --debug could diagnose invalid TZ settings. 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13 Jul 2022 21:31:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47864 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oBjxJ-0000bo-R8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 17:31:37 -0400 Received: from freefriends.org ([96.88.95.60]:59866) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oBjxH-0000bg-V6 for 56524@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 17:31:36 -0400 X-Envelope-From: karl@freefriends.org Received: from freefriends.org (freefriends.org [96.88.95.60]) by freefriends.org (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id 26DLVQ6j001915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 13 Jul 2022 15:31:27 -0600 Received: (from apache@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id 26DLVQQE001914; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 15:31:26 -0600 Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 15:31:26 -0600 Message-Id: <202207132131.26DLVQQE001914@freefriends.org> From: Karl Berry To: eggert@cs.ucla.edu Subject: Re: bug#56524: doc: timezone offset conversion/info In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56524 Cc: 56524@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnulib@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) I installed the attached patch to Gnulib Thanks. +Simple POSIX rules like this can also specify nonzero Greenwich offsets. Nothing about this seems "simple" to me :). Anyway. +More-complex POSIX TZ strings can specify simple daylight saving There shouldn't be a hyphen after "More". --thanks again, karl. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 13 22:05:40 2022 Received: (at 56524) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jul 2022 02:05:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48093 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oBoER-0002DZ-VB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 22:05:40 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:47692) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oBoEL-0002DC-GO for 56524@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 22:05:34 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1415716014B; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 19:05:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id ImB0EfqFhAxY; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 19:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC70416014C; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 19:05:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id ptnToEyQN8iX; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 19:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-172-91-119-151.socal.res.rr.com [172.91.119.151]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AE8FC16014B; Wed, 13 Jul 2022 19:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------d0VXKzIQAvLehCh6WWIL2goM" Message-ID: <41398332-8158-be42-de2f-0c7400b1149a@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 19:05:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.9.1 Content-Language: en-US To: Karl Berry References: <202207132131.26DLVQQE001914@freefriends.org> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Subject: Re: bug#56524: doc: timezone offset conversion/info In-Reply-To: <202207132131.26DLVQQE001914@freefriends.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56524 Cc: 56524@debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnulib@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------d0VXKzIQAvLehCh6WWIL2goM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/13/22 14:31, Karl Berry wrote: > +Simple POSIX rules like this can also specify nonzero Greenwich offsets. > > Nothing about this seems "simple" to me :). I meant "simple" in comparison to the rules like TZ="<-05>+5<-04>,M3.2.0/2,M11.1.0/2". Fixed by installing the attached further patch, which also omits that hyphen - though it keeps another similar hyphen that you didn't mention. 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