GNU bug report logs - #56518
Drop rsh/rlogin/remsh from Ange FTP

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: Drop rsh/rlogin/remsh from Ange FTP
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:55:12 -0500

Severity: wishlist

Assuming that Ange FTP is still relevant these days, its documentation
should not be talking about using "rsh", "rlogin" and "remsh" (as they
are obsolete).  Please rewrite its documentation to talk about SSH
instead.

(I note that Firefox and Chrome dropped FTP support in 2021.
And the FSF has sunset their FTP servers.)

Message #8 received at 56518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: 56518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#56518: Drop rsh/rlogin/remsh from Ange FTP
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:13:23 +0200

Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> writes:

Hi Stefan,

> Assuming that Ange FTP is still relevant these days, its documentation
> should not be talking about using "rsh", "rlogin" and "remsh" (as they
> are obsolete).  Please rewrite its documentation to talk about SSH
> instead.

These programs are mentioned in relation to "gateways". That is, if you
cannot access the FTP server from your local machine, you can connect to
that gateway (via rsh or alike) and start the ftp client on that
machine.

I guess we shall remove gateways at all from ange-ftp.el, because I
don't know whether they work with ssh or friends. At least, they shall
be made obsolete.

A proper replacement would be to improve Tramp's multi-hop, and support
remote file names like "/ssh:gateway|ftp:server:/path/to/file". Anything
goes, but is it really worth the trouble? It won't be trivial.

OTOH, I have no idea whether there's still somebody using Ange FTP with
gateways.

> (I note that Firefox and Chrome dropped FTP support in 2021.
> And the FSF has sunset their FTP servers.)

Sigh.

Best regards, Michael.

Message #11 received at 56518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: 56518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#56518: Drop rsh/rlogin/remsh from Ange FTP
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 18:48:07 +0300

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
> Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:55:12 -0500
> 
> (I note that Firefox and Chrome dropped FTP support in 2021.
> And the FSF has sunset their FTP servers.)

Sic transit gloria mundi!

Message #14 received at 56518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>, 56518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#56518: Drop rsh/rlogin/remsh from Ange FTP
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 11:53:58 +0200

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> (I note that Firefox and Chrome dropped FTP support in 2021.
>> And the FSF has sunset their FTP servers.)
>
> Sic transit gloria mundi!

Yep. But we're Emacs; it will take some further decades before we
obsolete the whole ange-ftp.el package. Not before major Linux distros
ban the ftp packages from their repos.

Best regards, Michael.

Message #17 received at 56518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>,
 56518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#56518: Drop rsh/rlogin/remsh from Ange FTP
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 12:09:20 +0200

>>>>> On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 11:53:58 +0200, Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> said:

    Michael> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
    >>> (I note that Firefox and Chrome dropped FTP support in 2021.
    >>> And the FSF has sunset their FTP servers.)
    >> 
    >> Sic transit gloria mundi!

    Michael> Yep. But we're Emacs; it will take some further decades before we
    Michael> obsolete the whole ange-ftp.el package. Not before major Linux distros
    Michael> ban the ftp packages from their repos.

Telnet is already hard to obtain in many distributions, ftp canʼt be
far behind (although thereʼs always curl 🙂)

Robert
-- 

Message #20 received at 56518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>,
 56518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#56518: Drop rsh/rlogin/remsh from Ange FTP
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 12:38:33 +0200

Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com> writes:

Hi Robert,

>     Michael> Yep. But we're Emacs; it will take some further decades before we
>     Michael> obsolete the whole ange-ftp.el package. Not before major Linux distros
>     Michael> ban the ftp packages from their repos.
>
> Telnet is already hard to obtain in many distributions, ftp canʼt be
> far behind (although thereʼs always curl 🙂)

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
Fedora 36:

# dnf list telnet
Last metadata expiration check: 0:03:43 ago on Wed 13 Jul 2022 12:31:15 PM CEST.
Installed Packages
telnet.x86_64                       1:0.17-86.fc36                       @fedora

Ubuntu 22.04:

# apt list telnet
Listing... Done
telnet/jammy,now 0.17-44build1 amd64 [installed]
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

What counts for us are the (telnet, ftp) clients. The servers will still
live on old routers, NAS boxes, you name it, and those machines won't
run a modernish ssh server for access.

> Robert

Best regards, Michael.

Message #23 received at 56518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: stefan <at> marxist.se, michael.albinus <at> gmx.de, 56518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#56518: Drop rsh/rlogin/remsh from Ange FTP
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 14:52:03 +0300

> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,  Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>,
>   56518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 12:09:20 +0200
> 
> >>>>> On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 11:53:58 +0200, Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> said:
> 
>     Michael> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>     >>> (I note that Firefox and Chrome dropped FTP support in 2021.
>     >>> And the FSF has sunset their FTP servers.)
>     >> 
>     >> Sic transit gloria mundi!
> 
>     Michael> Yep. But we're Emacs; it will take some further decades before we
>     Michael> obsolete the whole ange-ftp.el package. Not before major Linux distros
>     Michael> ban the ftp packages from their repos.
> 
> Telnet is already hard to obtain in many distributions, ftp canʼt be
> far behind (although thereʼs always curl 🙂)

And wget.

What about ncftp, though?

Message #26 received at 56518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
To: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,
 Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>, 56518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#56518: Drop rsh/rlogin/remsh from Ange FTP
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 17:31:24 +0530

[Wednesday July 13, 2022] Robert Pluim wrote:

> Telnet is already hard to obtain in many distributions, ftp canʼt be
> far behind (although thereʼs always curl 🙂)

Don't the BSD people use ftp a fair bit?  At least, OpenBSD has a ftp
command OOTB.  [ This command can also do http(s) IIRC.  ]

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