GNU bug report logs - #56291
29.0.50; version-control versus gnus-backup-startup-file

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Mike Kupfer <mkupfer <at> alum.berkeley.edu>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 29.0.50; version-control versus gnus-backup-startup-file
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 18:00:07 -0700

Awhile back, I wanted to get numbered backup files for my Gnus
.newsrc.eld file, at least for a few days until I figured out why it was
getting trashed occasionally.  It took me quite some time to get it to
work, because I didn't know about gnus-backup-startup-file, and I
misunderstood part of the Info page "Backup Names".  That page says

    You can have Emacs set ‘version-control’ locally whenever you visit
    a given file (*note File Variables::).  Some modes, such as Rmail
    mode, set this variable.

I think that last sentence would be clearer as

    Some packages, such as Rmail, override the global setting of
    ‘version-control’ in this manner.

thanks,
mike

Message #8 received at 56291 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Mike Kupfer <mkupfer <at> alum.berkeley.edu>
Cc: 56291 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#56291: 29.0.50; version-control versus
 gnus-backup-startup-file
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 12:22:12 +0200

Mike Kupfer <mkupfer <at> alum.berkeley.edu> writes:

> Awhile back, I wanted to get numbered backup files for my Gnus
> .newsrc.eld file, at least for a few days until I figured out why it was
> getting trashed occasionally.  It took me quite some time to get it to
> work, because I didn't know about gnus-backup-startup-file, and I
> misunderstood part of the Info page "Backup Names".  That page says
>
>     You can have Emacs set ‘version-control’ locally whenever you visit
>     a given file (*note File Variables::).  Some modes, such as Rmail
>     mode, set this variable.
>
> I think that last sentence would be clearer as
>
>     Some packages, such as Rmail, override the global setting of
>     ‘version-control’ in this manner.

I don't think that's correct, though?  rmail-mode doesn't use file
variables, it does:

  (setq-local version-control 'never)

So it doesn't set version-control "in this manner", as far as I can tell?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #13 received at 56291 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Mike Kupfer <mkupfer <at> alum.berkeley.edu>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 56291 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#56291: 29.0.50;
 version-control versus gnus-backup-startup-file
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 07:38:28 -0700

Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:

> Mike Kupfer <mkupfer <at> alum.berkeley.edu> writes:
> >     Some packages, such as Rmail, override the global setting of
> >     ‘version-control’ in this manner.
> 
> I don't think that's correct, though?  rmail-mode doesn't use file
> variables, it does:
> 
>   (setq-local version-control 'never)
> 
> So it doesn't set version-control "in this manner", as far as I can tell?

Fair enough.  How about

    The usual way to set this variable is globally, through your init
    file or the customization buffer.  However, you can set
    ‘version-control’ locally in an individual buffer to control the
    making of backups for that buffer’s file (*note Locals::).  Some
    packages, such as Rmail, override the global setting of
    ‘version-control’ this way.  You can also have Emacs set
    ‘version-control’ locally whenever you visit a given file (*note File
    Variables::).

?

mike

Message #16 received at 56291 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Mike Kupfer <mkupfer <at> alum.berkeley.edu>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 56291 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#56291: 29.0.50;
 version-control versus gnus-backup-startup-file
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 07:44:44 -0700

Mike Kupfer wrote:

> How about
> 
>     The usual way to set this variable is globally, through your init
>     file or the customization buffer.  However, you can set
>     ‘version-control’ locally in an individual buffer to control the
>     making of backups for that buffer’s file (*note Locals::).  Some
>     packages, such as Rmail, override the global setting of
>     ‘version-control’ this way.  You can also have Emacs set
>     ‘version-control’ locally whenever you visit a given file (*note File
>     Variables::).

Or maybe put the last sentence in a separate paragraph?

mike

Message #19 received at 56291 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Mike Kupfer <mkupfer <at> alum.berkeley.edu>
Cc: 56291 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, larsi <at> gnus.org
Subject: Re: bug#56291: 29.0.50;
 version-control versus gnus-backup-startup-file
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 19:05:38 +0300

> Cc: 56291 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Mike Kupfer <mkupfer <at> alum.berkeley.edu>
> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 07:38:28 -0700
> 
> Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> 
> > Mike Kupfer <mkupfer <at> alum.berkeley.edu> writes:
> > >     Some packages, such as Rmail, override the global setting of
> > >     ‘version-control’ in this manner.
> > 
> > I don't think that's correct, though?  rmail-mode doesn't use file
> > variables, it does:
> > 
> >   (setq-local version-control 'never)
> > 
> > So it doesn't set version-control "in this manner", as far as I can tell?
> 
> Fair enough.  How about
> 
>     The usual way to set this variable is globally, through your init
>     file or the customization buffer.  However, you can set
>     ‘version-control’ locally in an individual buffer to control the
>     making of backups for that buffer’s file (*note Locals::).  Some
>     packages, such as Rmail, override the global setting of
>     ‘version-control’ this way.  You can also have Emacs set
>     ‘version-control’ locally whenever you visit a given file (*note File
>     Variables::).
> 
> ?

The point of the example is to illustrate the local setting of the
variable, so talking about packages that set the global value misses
the point, and shouldn't be there.  If Rmail is a bad example, then we
should find a better one, and mention only those.

Message #22 received at 56291 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Mike Kupfer <mkupfer <at> alum.berkeley.edu>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 56291 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, larsi <at> gnus.org
Subject: Re: bug#56291: 29.0.50;
 version-control versus gnus-backup-startup-file
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 09:17:35 -0700

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> > Cc: 56291 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > From: Mike Kupfer <mkupfer <at> alum.berkeley.edu>
> > Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 07:38:28 -0700
> > 
> > Fair enough.  How about
> > 
> >     The usual way to set this variable is globally, through your init
> >     file or the customization buffer.  However, you can set
> >     ‘version-control’ locally in an individual buffer to control the
> >     making of backups for that buffer’s file (*note Locals::).  Some
> >     packages, such as Rmail, override the global setting of
> >     ‘version-control’ this way.  You can also have Emacs set
> >     ‘version-control’ locally whenever you visit a given file (*note File
> >     Variables::).
> > 
> > ?
> 
> The point of the example is to illustrate the local setting of the
> variable, so talking about packages that set the global value misses
> the point, and shouldn't be there.  If Rmail is a bad example, then we
> should find a better one, and mention only those.

Okay, I guess "override the global setting" is too confusing.  Rmail
only sets it locally.  Does this work better:

    The usual way to set this variable is globally, through your init
    file or the customization buffer.  However, you can set
    ‘version-control’ locally in an individual buffer to control the
    making of backups for that buffer’s file (*note Locals::).  Some
    packages, such as Rmail, do this.  You can also have Emacs set
    ‘version-control’ locally whenever you visit a given file (*note
    File Variables::).

?

mike

Message #25 received at 56291 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Mike Kupfer <mkupfer <at> alum.berkeley.edu>
Cc: 56291 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, larsi <at> gnus.org
Subject: Re: bug#56291: 29.0.50;
 version-control versus gnus-backup-startup-file
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 20:21:56 +0300

> From: Mike Kupfer <mkupfer <at> alum.berkeley.edu>
> cc: larsi <at> gnus.org, 56291 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 09:17:35 -0700
> 
>     The usual way to set this variable is globally, through your init
>     file or the customization buffer.  However, you can set
>     ‘version-control’ locally in an individual buffer to control the
>     making of backups for that buffer’s file (*note Locals::).  Some
>     packages, such as Rmail, do this.  You can also have Emacs set
>     ‘version-control’ locally whenever you visit a given file (*note
>     File Variables::).

SGTM, thanks.

Message #28 received at 56291 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 56291 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Mike Kupfer <mkupfer <at> alum.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: bug#56291: 29.0.50; version-control versus
 gnus-backup-startup-file
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 11:21:24 +0200

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>>     The usual way to set this variable is globally, through your init
>>     file or the customization buffer.  However, you can set
>>     ‘version-control’ locally in an individual buffer to control the
>>     making of backups for that buffer’s file (*note Locals::).  Some
>>     packages, such as Rmail, do this.  You can also have Emacs set
>>     ‘version-control’ locally whenever you visit a given file (*note
>>     File Variables::).
>
> SGTM, thanks.

Now pushed to Emacs 29.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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