From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:17:38 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#56251: Make obsoletion info more prominent in *Help* buffer Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 10:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 56251 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 56251@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.16563248661708 (code B ref -1); Mon, 27 Jun 2022 10:15:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 10:14:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49876 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5llC-0000RU-9J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 06:14:26 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:48158) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5ll9-0000RK-2m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 06:14:24 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38906) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o5ll8-0002Qw-D3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 06:14:22 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f169.google.com ([209.85.215.169]:39484) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o5ll6-0003KG-Eq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 06:14:21 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f169.google.com with SMTP id q140so8676167pgq.6 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 03:14:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=kMtQD7iLdwNojX1u1px56myytMhAXY6PhIAd6HLaFqc=; b=jB+L61X+kqA4qHC8iadd/c/Kd16jQD2h4vo0yDqwcFZ/fJ3Sae5iIYzyYvZus8gC2F ibEJ7u1l4tFyvuninqs1RakiIjfNScAuOMSWgPm3of9b4fwTcUqUhfvgR1Zwqbkv3SEH +L/Y8QhWmMFDX3WlLbBc7OrvXIh7tAHbomaEKkbtctXhOzQLnjOYU36uSU8qqnVzRTzU EVMQrWVXGBYIxGr1avsTWZf8HYSfT0De2IGVJRwe7vtKzzCPTdNrHauW+mtLlfcc400m mvDxINi+Fb39wuQsvR27v07u3ve1k1DFdILBvOpqBe3pMxxEMwP/T7JKcQFbDhmTaLo0 n3vw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora9UxJI47JA/s4Zt5+jRy52atlxa0Sk8rPFT3gp2mgPNwaTAFxEa L/6dH9SDnPTT3fpalnTdNtR0g5iIJiiHOHSdokovP7QR X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1vPDR60UXanlR4cMIQXYlpJUFAWdCgwC8sMDD2rq/7Gd2uCyTb2brG6fGbEBY6wkPXfXL7DoAswRkPWmR07Xho= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:9425:0:b0:525:279e:9251 with SMTP id y5-20020aa79425000000b00525279e9251mr14445678pfo.4.1656324858625; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 03:14:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 03:14:18 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 03:14:18 -0700 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.215.169; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-f169.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) Severity: wishlist We have moved all the extra information in the *Help* buffer to the end. For example, see `org-agenda-ignore-drawer-properties': This variable is an alias for =E2=80=98org-agenda-ignore-properties=E2=80= =99. This variable is obsolete since 9.0; use =E2=80=98org-agenda-ignore-properties=E2=80=99 instead. You can customize this variable. This is very welcome. However, I find that the obsoletion warning is easy to miss. Presumably, this is very important information before even considering using the variable. We want to strongly discourage that, right? So how about making that particular part more prominent, for example by moving it back up to the top again, or by giving it some color? From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:17:38 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#56251: Make obsoletion info more prominent in *Help* buffer Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 10:52:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 56251 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 56251@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 56251-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B56251.165632710524163 (code B ref 56251); Mon, 27 Jun 2022 10:52:02 +0000 Received: (at 56251) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 10:51:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49993 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5mLJ-0006Hf-Ab for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 06:51:45 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:36156) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5mLG-0006HI-Gv for 56251@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 06:51:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=iNomonY0jKrdJ+xVguHXMj0OGafynaZNCcL+OE9RBxI=; b=mPtt4GZbMX+fGpcDp7nfI9rxTu WM5+qvkE9PkLzKP+cQKGlALDLeb34P0ltfh0DsmB7WB0tpJNOnpr5YkLS0fxbj6CFTeQHSwIN5f9T k5UB8b6IXkk3UhOBnkB6sgcBU6EiykjeB7Uo26Koe3p+SecC+s0BKDUsY64HaCRHZBdQ=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o5mL7-00055u-EK; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 12:51:35 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: X-Now-Playing: Joni Mitchell's _Night Ride Home_: "Night Ride Home" Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 12:51:31 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Mon, 27 Jun 2022 03:14:18 -0700") Message-ID: <87mtdywf9o.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > However, I find that the obsoletion warning is > easy to miss. Presumably, this is very important information before > even considering using the variable. We want to strongly discourage > that, rig [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Kangas writes: > However, I find that the obsoletion warning is > easy to miss. Presumably, this is very important information before > even considering using the variable. We want to strongly discourage > that, right? > > So how about making that particular part more prominent, for example by > moving it back up to the top again, or by giving it some color? I think moving it back to the top makes sense -- it's very important information. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:17:38 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#56251: Make obsoletion info more prominent in *Help* buffer Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2022 14:49:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 56251 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Stefan Kangas Cc: "56251@debbugs.gnu.org" <56251@debbugs.gnu.org> Received: via spool by 56251-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B56251.165634131713218 (code B ref 56251); Mon, 27 Jun 2022 14:49:01 +0000 Received: (at 56251) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jun 2022 14:48:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52994 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o5q2X-0003R8-1W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 88550c56-9822-4592-9cd4-08da584c1b3d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Jun 2022 14:48:32.3971 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: zNKu970N4FM69dD37VK0cwQf8QXwLz2ljsFkaO1g8FBWHNmS1+/ByKjOUTrGtdP7du6/gJBKq/9+0uCqGFBoJA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA2PR10MB4586 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.517, 18.0.883 definitions=2022-06-27_06:2022-06-24, 2022-06-27 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=533 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2204290000 definitions=main-2206270065 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: TrycrYidQ6V9GvgHC3sB1sqWN1U7YS9e X-Proofpoint-GUID: TrycrYidQ6V9GvgHC3sB1sqWN1U7YS9e X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > However, I find that the obsoletion warning is > > easy to miss. Presumably, this is very important information before > > even considering using the variable. We want to strongly discourage > > that, right? > > > > So how about making that particular part more prominent, for example > > by moving it back up to the top again, or by giving it some color? >=20 > I think moving it back to the top makes sense -- it's very important > information. No, it's not more important than the other meta-information that you've moved to the end. It's a footnote - should be, anyway. From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:17:38 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#56251: Make obsoletion info more prominent in *Help* buffer Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 13:23:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 56251 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 56251@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 56251-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B56251.165642257523616 (code B ref 56251); Tue, 28 Jun 2022 13:23:01 +0000 Received: (at 56251) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jun 2022 13:22:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54293 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o6BB9-00068p-Cf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 09:22:55 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:48496) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o6BAy-00068L-LG for 56251@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 09:22:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=o4SLju0JveIjxhEQIpnBrsgtinnJtGRovrWV2jo7kMs=; b=msNnGmlM1kXckOkRnfMVxQz50e d5cIk9csgdNvVwJLC5uhIeJxSj+R7lrxZwhWx2wxbUy4AJYMVIkGpvlWU8x/0IS75/A7ny176RP9S 8+9yhqgPbzgq/AEgmRdOHLdGepe7AqcaQfAy57S7+DI2AZaAohjNO4WH2Qjwbvd8gg60=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o6BAg-0002S3-OE; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:22:33 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87mtdywf9o.fsf@gnus.org> X-Now-Playing: Hannah Diamond's _PC Music Volume 3_: "Staring At The Ceiling" Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:22:25 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87mtdywf9o.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 27 Jun 2022 12:51:31 +0200") Message-ID: <87r138q5wu.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > I think moving it back to the top makes sense -- it's very important > information. I've now done so in Emacs 29. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > I think moving it back to the top makes sense -- it's very important > information. I've now done so in Emacs 29. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 28 09:22:58 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jun 2022 13:22:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54296 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o6BBC-000696-RH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 09:22:58 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:48502) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o6BBB-00068f-DM for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 09:22:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=71kjrVpZ3/oTgIynpnEy/uuzOF3ayTIb//DMvoLIb3Y=; b=RcEqDz/BJrzyRqCjPn1FR5Eim1 TIDefvBbasqRCv8xO7cqwL5rof5XzV3zCljdlrIHQsCCkXSm8HZBlrLTaB5xeHd2+vKTsXZw/wgIO Sp9ueUlvm+ml8FCQb392MRLy+tgQvYW4tumHV5jS4O8c3361FbYO4Of0djNDi+SP64l8=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o6BAu-0002SA-VP for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:22:46 +0200 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 15:22:35 +0200 Message-Id: <87pmisq5wk.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #56251 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: close 56251 29.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) close 56251 29.1 quit From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:17:38 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#56251: Make obsoletion info more prominent in *Help* buffer Resent-From: Rudolf =?UTF-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 19:25:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 56251 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas , 56251@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 56251-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B56251.165653066810568 (code B ref 56251); Wed, 29 Jun 2022 19:25:02 +0000 Received: (at 56251) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jun 2022 19:24:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60261 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o6dIa-0002kO-2Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2022 15:24:28 -0400 Received: from pv50p00im-zteg10021301.me.com ([17.58.6.46]:52014) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o6dIV-0002k6-JF for 56251@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2022 15:24:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=me.com; s=1a1hai; t=1656530657; bh=uzZ0HtNgieQDqlFnYTEjQeR8f2EF7w14vPNBUXB3slA=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=FwXGn/6zJViB1ortemMht1ybP6UYPNCYelTpGwJJ83QwtYlNdbnkXXbPMq5c0N8EV bqhLVIx+c3i98ntG6OR7Az+O5h4XgigfquglLlqaAkaQ1bEBQtxpW5bC8ZIo7XTnA6 cg2w/peb2KI8L925bMiGlbHlOqZqZr6I5W5SwBJxjDRw4s/94KwG/smxVMuqNcFU/I +J2MTM5jg+1yP75OhQ7UIMT3fEKz67JA8kSw2JVDMXQcIOHshQlPQiJfTipVhJ7ihs l83zLb5/QyOys5Qm/MRfb8qUK0TLbcpKRewI7jgDRSYO8qBhqD8KDYYgcqfLW2oevs fmGBTSQ5bmxDQ== Received: from Rudolfs-MacBook-Air.local (pv50p00im-dlb-asmtp-mailmevip.me.com [17.56.9.10]) by pv50p00im-zteg10021301.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 671F050009D; Wed, 29 Jun 2022 19:24:16 +0000 (UTC) From: Rudolf =?UTF-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 21:24:13 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Proofpoint-GUID: GS7xP8LsDZv5SVARrcq8Xi7f1hO5Sr6z X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: GS7xP8LsDZv5SVARrcq8Xi7f1hO5Sr6z X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=1.1.170-22c6f66c430a71ce266a39bfe25bc2903e8d5c8f:6.0.517,18.0.883,17.0.605.474.0000000 definitions=2022-06-21_08:2022-06-21_01,2022-06-21_08,2020-01-23_02 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=965 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 clxscore=1011 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2206290068 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: > However, I find that the obsoletion warning is easy to miss. +1 As a user, I missed it multiple times. I would expect deprecation warnings to show first. Otherwise, the user might spend their time learning about something just to discover, at the very end, that they should learn about and use something else. That does not make much sense. P.S. The *Help* buffer could use more typography and color affordances. In this case, I would expect strike-through on the symbol name, or the word "deprecated" displayed in red, or something else. R+ --=20 "Be especially critical of any statement following the word 'obviously.'" -- Anna Pell Wheeler, 1883-1966 Rudolf Adamkovi=C4=8D [he/him] Studenohorsk=C3=A1 25 84103 Bratislava Slovakia From unknown Sun Jun 22 17:17:38 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#56251: Make obsoletion info more prominent in *Help* buffer Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2022 03:33:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 56251 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Rudolf =?UTF-8?Q?Adamkovi=C3=84=C2=8D?= Cc: 56251@debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 56251-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B56251.16566463715491 (code B ref 56251); Fri, 01 Jul 2022 03:33:02 +0000 Received: (at 56251) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jul 2022 03:32:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36012 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o77Ol-0001QU-18 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Jun 2022 23:32:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57106) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o77Oi-0001QH-Nf for 56251@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Jun 2022 23:32:49 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:41158) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o77Od-00078t-CH; Thu, 30 Jun 2022 23:32:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=KVfafH7SeddndTrAVY6IsR0eRQ62wBLVqA6oFhDRsSg=; b=VBX46NEgSo01 mcZCq/f9EyCC3k3qDZ5iUPwtrpkHOPCUAKyVsFj9dWkFXHvpEoWsAsPAMDRMbzAbRKFRNk/VwbxDJ t3EZ8IjKIQ3BJBoi9H5avJW/sazPlVTPumJ1GtnkLa6UQBsDUoa5B3if8QvtdfsPLTDUxZu59vQlQ XYT9JwPvyaTu5OnBAThWawvooJEtGg13+k3UmU/OGjtom/7NTrqAAKbKSx2pdyRYM/mCm1OYWwokn 4eabrBFPZ2fDmH8cWgungkf/BfL7cZ+eoj/0CbImDf3IqU052DRlfanohW8xP7NeyqyyppgaJG957 CvFTybLckdDhb611R1D5Lg==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o77Ob-0000iF-Cq; Thu, 30 Jun 2022 23:32:41 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: (bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org) References: Message-Id: Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 23:32:41 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > +1 As a user, I missed it multiple times. I would expect deprecation > warnings to show first. I think that makes sense. Could we also put them in a different color, for emphasis? -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)