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Wed, 8 Jun 2022 16:56:02 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::818c:10bf:c1b5:e224]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::818c:10bf:c1b5:e224%4]) with mapi id 15.20.5332.013; Wed, 8 Jun 2022 16:56:02 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: "bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Subject: 28.1; Please document f#(...) syntax in Elisp manual Thread-Topic: 28.1; Please document f#(...) syntax in Elisp manual Thread-Index: Adh7WJjsR/Gcl9UdTvCqdnQ43fXlmQ== Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2022 16:56:02 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 86de6faa-b94b-4340-92ff-08da496fc53d x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR10MB1309:EE_ x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: D3lHjkkopFSXKSDlnr+bGsTGad2a0DOsZZLi3ciFldbBrDRqEoh8KjUXni5RYVALOrH9nW0njpeciXXXUBE+X5C8nmkQV6DX9kgHbAGxH+vgxTGGQg4S0RLBYgLEXofItr5c5NUAEjVdYzt8BovQw2Qy5OPgL8YhpKiVLWjFA3MS5ay9SjILJNLZpkvaZWjw9ghn0586ePp1/D7GWhoQsgde7x3GgO5bB+T897ljqvmyOuvsOm+EzPSuTnpE9GbRrEhsdgIHAdI+Op5T7wtsEaaYS2E989pkaEtGJUjphuLUh19MVonEw9tEr4GQVZGEYEdqiYhydexXRLqzwuV9NzFTMykcqaq4JZIAoAKRD14KT+r2NQUUl2spUU3y41cRVI2n9eTWdPwFdHC05hjw9RA4yjFx9oKtvkALz1CRr/0HrnuRU7pW6kTfSIZgOT3FQrediLzEcBtp1MzG9dJWJ0EmuR+mgsWhUYf/nb5pDlpuS7qpuRnmqUbhOlGveIKTnWcgT+X830ZvHhTYP+8Xf1+pLflzUsx4C0EejZD7VG5gv7R/5ftVS5V3DofpD+At12FEmcQPyvLlaOGFenoYY3q62myuQFmJz2Lb8JrSgSxBBVQHDiCHogi+zVptHCqbtFMeIsvQvs53KBpzi3GlJ6HIY3LYWl0NjGWaN5K4TXsCsm4dicIH1TMR2BXtLmAIjB36OihdwoGmwp2JK3dDUTc+50p/tCLDu71ovYD4PMhIQkRBJtCigoxw/gQEBHcL5QRyyiwTkOvI56N72VC4GjzxOCUfzV0//R9jp8JyEJg= x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) See https://stackoverflow.com/q/72547221/729907. Users see this #f(...) syntax. They should be able to consult the doc in some way to find out what it is/means. Please consider documenting it in the Elisp manual. Thx. In GNU Emacs 28.1 (build 2, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2022-04-21 built on AVALON Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.19044 System Description: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro (v10.0.2009.19044.1706) Configured using: 'configure --with-modules --without-dbus --with-native-compilation --without-compress-install CFLAGS=3D-O2' Configured features: ACL GIF GMP GNUTLS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY W32NOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SOUND THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS XPM ZLIB (NATIVE_COMP present but libgccjit not available) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 09 09:23:01 2022 Received: (at 55853) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jun 2022 13:23:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45431 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nzI7p-00073N-4j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 09:23:01 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:49342) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nzI7n-000736-AO for 55853@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 09:22:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=m8ki910TGA41R5ftaZJX1mqxTNm1pzyWpilAVNRv8eM=; b=Rl5XPBRCbJ9IWhsJ56Wt3VgEaw 6v2rQ1RIIdvBXXdVHYz+h9efTGJ3OH03K74UXMJL/3VbpSVLEtVmsiU3pHy6/2B73M8MOR/inWWbc tAmiJi68hQt2A/kRbur1LbWNIRBVwD3nUiVEZtYbs6xOUr30n6/jYO1BrK9q9lk0uxfw=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nzI7d-0008UQ-KD; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 15:22:52 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#55853: 28.1; Please document f#(...) syntax in Elisp manual References: X-Now-Playing: Prince's _Sign 'O' the Times (7): Live in Utrecht I_: "Take The "A" Train-Pacemaker-I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man (Live In Utrecht)" Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2022 15:22:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 8 Jun 2022 16:56:02 +0000") Message-ID: <87k09q55ue.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Drew Adams writes: > See https://stackoverflow.com/q/72547221/729907. > > Users see this #f(...) syntax. They should be able to consult the doc > in some way to find out what it is/means. Please consider documenting > i [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 55853 Cc: 55853@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Drew Adams writes: > See https://stackoverflow.com/q/72547221/729907. > > Users see this #f(...) syntax. They should be able to consult the doc > in some way to find out what it is/means. Please consider documenting > it in the Elisp manual. Thx. >From the URL: The syntax in question is in the following expression ((remote . emacs) (system . #f(compiled-function (file path) #)) (t . #f(compiled-function (file path) #))) It's from: (cl-defmethod cl-print-object ((object compiled-function) stream) (unless stream (setq stream standard-output)) ;; We use "#f(...)" rather than "#<...>" so that pp.el gives better results. (princ "#f(compiled-function " stream) I.e., it's from the "pretty" version of prin1, and is not meant to be readable by the Lisp reader. I've now mentioned this in the Special Read Syntax node in the lispref manual in Emacs 28.2. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 09 09:23:07 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jun 2022 13:23:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45435 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nzI7v-00074G-CP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 09:23:07 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:49356) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nzI7t-00073L-H3 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 09:23:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ULyE8ya4O/TF3Lh4O3FxKLTN8WhK7/aWj3NcEXCeSUg=; b=itHf0hMNXEpZgHi+m3/hrH0Og6 sEF+usw/VOxCVcEb1eva3q32MAYx99QsevsJtqT5NULTch1nVSjFvLQz4boJ41swEHM0AzGi/J+Ta QzPxIngBuK1uUsJvu1vApbpYYC6yGFGcDV98zEsFRF5JGXP5mAdi6DU1GuCovFQh50sM=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nzI7l-0008Ue-KH for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2022 15:22:59 +0200 Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2022 15:22:57 +0200 Message-Id: <87ilpa55u6.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #55853 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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bh=rWDUH7oWXidqz3twQWWd0QF7bgP9eUwn2XX6aEvJuRI=; b=BJ03OoKt/PABdefJFc+UjaRSuReY3YQNQ1xUyT1GS+YBS+h/9PQVtx4JuyC0pQM0b3Mmc5/OBT+Mo3Gd043iJ0NcOjm3C2FLJb7ymSHTh5tNA39yCUw/ILNCkK4G4WAu/eketrKknuYBDMNQKL239hFWSorsPnha2XLOnsH+S5c= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by CH2PR10MB3798.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:610:c::19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5314.13; Thu, 9 Jun 2022 14:04:52 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::818c:10bf:c1b5:e224]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::818c:10bf:c1b5:e224%4]) with mapi id 15.20.5332.013; Thu, 9 Jun 2022 14:04:52 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#55853: 28.1; Please document f#(...) syntax in Elisp manual Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#55853: 28.1; Please document f#(...) syntax in Elisp manual Thread-Index: Adh7WJjsR/Gcl9UdTvCqdnQ43fXlmQAq3aSbAAE+RgA= Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2022 14:04:52 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87k09q55ue.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87k09q55ue.fsf@gnus.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2b4b8ac7-dfcc-4fc9-26fd-08da4a210623 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CH2PR10MB3798:EE_ x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2b4b8ac7-dfcc-4fc9-26fd-08da4a210623 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Jun 2022 14:04:52.3064 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: oXxJjDrIow86hrjzm0Ov+lf9rWNCPIqtYWmVALhtZULAnvtAO7DCIKYYIGbYUzG5T1qsRF0Qor7xvTzPOO0jIw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH2PR10MB3798 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.517, 18.0.874 definitions=2022-06-09_11:2022-06-09, 2022-06-09 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2204290000 definitions=main-2206090057 X-Proofpoint-GUID: 0MKMbP2C3c63YXtPS8BJwSsPIKLtxF9Q X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 0MKMbP2C3c63YXtPS8BJwSsPIKLtxF9Q X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 55853 Cc: "55853@debbugs.gnu.org" <55853@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > See https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://stackoverflow.com/q/72547221/72= 9907 > __;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!Js5VF7KbuZreJUFSLAH2FrOVle2g3oyTYcFXS7qlnAwG8QAl9v > GcS1skzoz2U2AgbNowlTxv7NJQ$ . > > > > Users see this #f(...) syntax. They should be able to consult the > > doc in some way to find out what it is/means. Please consider > > documenting it in the Elisp manual. Thx. >=20 > From the URL: >=20 > The syntax in question is in the following expression >=20 > ((remote . emacs) > (system . #f(compiled-function > (file path) > #)) > (t . #f(compiled-function > (file path) > #))) >=20 > It's from: >=20 > (cl-defmethod cl-print-object ((object compiled-function) stream) > (unless stream (setq stream standard-output)) > ;; We use "#f(...)" rather than "#<...>" so that pp.el gives better > results. > (princ "#f(compiled-function " stream) >=20 > I.e., it's from the "pretty" version of prin1, and is not meant to be > readable by the Lisp reader. >=20 > I've now mentioned this in the Special Read Syntax node in the lispref > manual in Emacs 28.2. Thanks, that's a start (and all that the bug report requested: document in the manual). But is there any chance this "pretty"-printing itself can be made more human-friendly / communicative? Aside from (I guess) naming the formal parameters, it looks like it just says "BLAT$%@#(*&{}:"|?><(/.,!!". https://stackoverflow.com/a/72561466/729907 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 05 11:11:57 2022 Received: (at 55853) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jul 2022 15:11:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51265 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o8kDV-0007uA-MA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 11:11:57 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.4]:46229) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o8kDS-0007tv-IP for 55853@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 11:11:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1657033905; bh=FsLODy4awemn/xBL6Ka1yJdqDAAYGocotvz3yggePvI=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=MxIxCv4LkwL7dWMm/iCWtXGRE0cyiQAUmk1rSYGheMUHCfkSpSGqQwNJSrq6JolAm k22QhdtflMHsIUrzIcNogcfKbUY/Yg2HsYemtQ/HwMElYc0IheUcry35KE3aN6BcGo UF9DVkMvDMlPA6om0Qo+ELbFtcsWD0WSP4ug91Is= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from drachen.dragon ([88.66.201.45]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb005 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MUlDJ-1o0Bdo0fVx-00QvRo; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 17:11:45 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#55853: 28.1; Please document f#(...) syntax in Elisp manual In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Thu, 9 Jun 2022 14:04:52 +0000") References: <87k09q55ue.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2022 17:11:44 +0200 Message-ID: <87pmijwq4v.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:f+N34BB0f66oa0XhuxkWib/Svb0wOlwI+Q3jyboGy0d4VTEkFXd B35HrlXXkXcMmPr3h1jMoCPvCZrXWWV/H4vguwleYoXppopvMaZduCfB8mwzLTDj+qKnz4S jx7R0eAdgue4QEAY/5Bfa/WR+uL/1h4t/dXX4WI7FuGsGiR8qqHuKy+9/oVGDPT6ZKUlgJ1 QIZrVezGofYHKFfKj/NkA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:seH6x5RdHTo=:Fml5Er4TEJuZ8oNWXhd+2D CzwuIXkK1C5h1nSN+uF3KdNC6fiFknBrIUVyZWazp9zi4Cct3eWazaFtjlBmhDNN3fcU+fesH xgXzWll2TN8fusqcaX70BQd01QWs0kVSJbNVV39PGB7mzAjJVwp8xCqNWavdkAri3gMPjjdYH wnQOUcXBRKPt714m8epNwuMUdSYsRYl1nLRFXvrKdUcRg4YG3DvZl3U9qLtsW7fQSJvqQNI+e v+4L1bjczv/6KcMf93h7i4MmSCTnkBtcvzSIWxbBTAjiTv+Z/qKu1kzBWPjO6sGEHHCSCewmC SeeAhV6G0wEM9xdvHfCKDB23uSfYsukw4HKdPa2rq2OGsTx7ZZ2KTTSqymctIoKGJdHZe8ziA WMe0QsUBAD/SroDwbyu5WOTZ0iu1HYc3tBrelsPja3AqG70+ejenLMiSubWPEw4na7tign39+ aQ4hexm9kvx1ATwMlowRPYTKYSyQ2IgUl9/p3Qem7U4OFYjIFbN+rYvOonnEQS8ZdWjbOOEqt E73OI9Bj5TZuadw6COzKPXgQvQFC0uv4nfW4ITAiyRpRVUwv6KE/wRxKAEyqoq5N5Q4qJujEV +HvRLEFfQzK6CZ0dEWnDNMyJk8rpLEQoluvPimaZ4w7akwS+hCxJTpTHmRFsii8zy/vSA2ym0 a1IbRjZLxHtzYcQcNqZOW4svwd58+2u4VslByPoXGFSXdIOSlYX8Yi6/SfE93KDD8IMmkAUvo iUJ6GvY+IOJ36FSJ+pz5Zk2AVfLqhQGrvoHWjfjG/1ROYA7KbrUlVZ4kL4Nz/AAich3E5SNCN AQ9HujncJPIDv8EERrbhQ4B8mCRmZkSsrqadhPpCIOyf6z5fDsaK18OcFGR0SuY/aSS3QIF6y Jrxk5nOVTf3LctXUjg9no/3qwmIvvVbH/njjAGp/Bkx24VhI35QhcJfIpwPWdeFdDECwC04kt 2p85SP6Gw9ChzSfaS4KoWbdNs9QRBdxZ0aWF+ym3noOItySJGZ1rYGZQLBh44OHTBEE41MwPb 7AEnNMRxNA7PD6hdPCXxHkZhTFrde+xhqJU8mBmdDAtv7cdPVWfOrpNGlVPJcfI7dMO0qcL0Q YzTfhOc9YKGZJvEr88nfhd72hR3sbijYOhl0u3YqI5mMX+yVs0YFS77fw== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 55853 Cc: "55853@debbugs.gnu.org" <55853@debbugs.gnu.org>, Lars Ingebrigtsen X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Drew Adams writes: > But is there any chance this "pretty"-printing itself > can be made more human-friendly / communicative? > > Aside from (I guess) naming the formal parameters, it > looks like it just says "BLAT$%@#(*&{}:"|?><(/.,!!". Well, that's what byte code looks like. Apart from that, "it" is a clickable button that will disassemble that code for you if you click it. Not good enough? Michael. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 00ac7330-b9cb-44ce-c614-08da5e9a4303 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Jul 2022 15:23:06.8329 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: WzQTVHf6IsniUf+7FwVpO4m5a2LlV2APuxL78S3u5FW/3tqV7BZeqGMk304PapG/egkNUIVOJAS44+Xavtv/ZQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN0PR10MB5208 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.517, 18.0.883 definitions=2022-07-05_12:2022-06-28, 2022-07-05 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=730 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2204290000 definitions=main-2207050066 X-Proofpoint-GUID: ThnTgtO-ZiKvxiBS3KK-B-_C8yysBV6p X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: ThnTgtO-ZiKvxiBS3KK-B-_C8yysBV6p X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 55853 Cc: "55853@debbugs.gnu.org" <55853@debbugs.gnu.org>, Lars Ingebrigtsen X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > But is there any chance this "pretty"-printing itself > > can be made more human-friendly / communicative? > > > > Aside from (I guess) naming the formal parameters, it > > looks like it just says "BLAT$%@#(*&{}:"|?><(/.,!!". >=20 > Well, that's what byte code looks like. Apart from that, "it" is a > clickable button that will disassemble that code for you if you click > it. Not good enough? Dunno whether it's good enough. Depends on why someone might want to understand what's printed. >From the original thread: this is apparently "special read syntax", i.e., Lisp reader syntax that's not readable by the Lisp reader but is meant to communicate something to humans. ... What the source code for the function is; what the function does (e.g., it's doc); or where it's defined -- nothing like that is conveyed in the "pretty"-print. And whether "compiled" there means byte-compiled or "native"-compiled also isn't made clear. (Dunno whether any of those missing things has now been added as part of the bug fix.) Maybe instead of (or in addition to) a disassembly, a user could be pointed - a least in some cases - to the original source code (Lisp or C)? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 05 14:55:48 2022 Received: (at 55853) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jul 2022 18:55:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51644 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o8ni8-0003R7-LG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 14:55:48 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.4]:58291) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o8ni3-0003Qr-M3 for 55853@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 14:55:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1657047329; bh=wEYVje5O6TCzsJt/lgGTWy8ZhF3wHzFVUorw4bfuJAw=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=LcuxCqZLlO33Szr8X4qk9sk0wX69tmVmgxyT5H5Kr1y25WLsc1FCIW7l+slV5ITHN 4uGtpssM1r/IJme712yjr4E9038njEo9y+nmRt1mh/Y1ujDEAZyQbcaTBPckD9J4mE tkNIxw2pbzaf3y5par4LICw4d4yi9DCgnA7X+YOM= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from drachen.dragon ([88.66.201.45]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb006 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MY5bV-1o5tJE0keL-00YXtf; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 20:55:29 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#55853: 28.1; Please document f#(...) syntax in Elisp manual In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 5 Jul 2022 15:23:06 +0000") References: <87k09q55ue.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmijwq4v.fsf@web.de> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2022 20:55:27 +0200 Message-ID: <87o7y3s82o.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:bilR7GJuWGFSU+CcWBer0D/bDN/UkZxT8b2me5529nFOILvQVUi c7KD0CMn6RACobrM/rPyq5wQBTNRjuMcap7xLainxUHhi37R7A0vbkJmeOhos6tbKxHVtQw VE6YWRvf21CxX5VKyFw5ZgZJd/CJJCa9gSl4NRlHi+9JSF7oC9t3S9J4wZthjhVWZLCmeZi OS4xjfBjfSKv4YE/rG9kA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:zOEwBh92YtA=:XERQUdzg8n3aMbQakaD99Y JVpoFHew218z2EwZBA5X705PLRhJjnxC1dreQqBKgPoh9wb8xdO1dZoje+dV5k04uYqFnNtJf C1OEE32VSVxFjk2JRdxb8ZQo+dqKxypmco6xbXHDOYSH+o57ejZA1uPMzZcHq5WCqLWDO4IHU tEp/s6qLyakg/EvqYN8QDsh2ZM+TwaJAgDcuEhopxANz1OROcX8TYkFzNv0g13czKs08EdHNJ 7xIVo3CpSbDiBo/gVHBCkBVXewXvNw3gT722bj/KP74q+qxIc4Xp753/0VyX40CcuGjsjNXYo Mvcea1Q3BDSc2prW2VLrIQMrg1J2TS7MClzGYOWbEf2EzqMHAgpSp/CcX0XLCJ2FEI2WHgaV6 oSN0xqOnDin5rKzX8BtrrIZWqZdRvfqGPYsL2HtN6R8ha2W0nF9v5k0R6789qfCX4XavNxkK9 QTTJeJjcSx+00VAvcLnMiIAR78hSPyJgmQBa5S8gSgmfs+UgqdbtTMiJdOqPiDjkEJqHtUE1D rQR5JuQOu+ylMP7/Un2gek87TAobW4L4ZrlrQx5UljsinWaZHW5rjUdOQ7U6exrt8gNvXDwu/ siZgpc39NXq1FpJ9hkKdRTR++h/3yUs5HSwRwKUtPC8eSsNtlwYwqMcWgctSHBCd1lVrhjfcZ dF2eKJjPw8PgLDLR1eSjSZGa/eAh0ThHf/F6oZXnjEXetE77Txgc+J8c3f6pasXRF1i42IR/r 21lgsLa2NbVV56+TqqtZwHrsAJnRba8YclX7rd2wo/KK09hwUnPgYVy8s1+caiBopAZCUWLwo cLuj+8BnN+qCTNRW2SLvDjyKNhi74Uo9BW18SpEmH4IPgqi4i+XVYecI48S/n6pbgWtW90jlb 3UAVmONgBdoTuKRXxwbdtwEH9CNOQWsTLP2JnKRDKr47Xbxc/BoSZ6lxjppiLqAZTGn+dtKrZ JoF45+8USdWsxYSxZmJlgUOGXdUioCANfayrNCrCTvx4wLBw04c8U4QuicwViEfR5wF39AsxE KWCLBAqmpzQfcfXJlojJwSM/19nJi4pwCPCsnHMWsnG44BTKP0KVjmr0jQnMXmoY7FSKQqknj xIGQ4hM+Iswh+SsT4nt6gKf4N6D1MpBZnJeluDjDJdsRI9WUkhAiNkZ4Q== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 55853 Cc: "55853@debbugs.gnu.org" <55853@debbugs.gnu.org>, Lars Ingebrigtsen X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Drew Adams writes: > Maybe instead of (or in addition to) a disassembly, a > user could be pointed - a least in some cases - to the > original source code (Lisp or C)? Are there such cases? The place is not always well defined. In the cited original thread, when you see org-file-apps-windowsnt is a variable defined in `org.el'. in the C-h v popup you just click on the "org.el" button and are directly guided to the source of the byte-code function. We can't get much better I guess since we don't save the exact position of every lambda expression when compiling. If the byte-code function is named, you can click on the name that will likely be around. And if it has not, it's probably not trivial to find a related place of a definition (if there is one). So, hard to answer without a real-life example where this would actually be a real improvement. Michael. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 40ac1456-8e48-4b43-cfc1-08da5eb98193 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Jul 2022 19:06:46.2098 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: jn+dk9Fcx4NV7WVBt9XFRzY2EZva+xLEfTbpvmcQqFXua/mZzSvTPX8o8TURj6/K2TthkbKMQFz1DYRYGoCyfQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR10MB1840 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.517, 18.0.883 definitions=2022-07-05_16:2022-06-28, 2022-07-05 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=930 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2204290000 definitions=main-2207050083 X-Proofpoint-GUID: oevM8qgaZ2L66eSzozWgwg6LHWXA6wRF X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: oevM8qgaZ2L66eSzozWgwg6LHWXA6wRF X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 55853 Cc: "55853@debbugs.gnu.org" <55853@debbugs.gnu.org>, Lars Ingebrigtsen X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > Maybe instead of (or in addition to) a disassembly, a > > user could be pointed - a least in some cases - to the > > original source code (Lisp or C)? >=20 > Are there such cases? The place is not always well defined. >=20 > In the cited original thread, when you see >=20 > org-file-apps-windowsnt is a variable defined in `org.el'. >=20 > in the C-h v popup you just click on the "org.el" button and are > directly guided to the source of the byte-code function. We can't get > much better I guess since we don't save the exact position of every > lambda expression when compiling. >=20 > If the byte-code function is named, you can click on the name that will > likely be around. And if it has not, it's probably not trivial to find > a related place of a definition (if there is one). >=20 > So, hard to answer without a real-life example where this would > actually be a real improvement. Certainly there are cases where there's no reasonable way to locate where the thing was defined. But when there is a reasonable way it's good to point to the definition/source code. For cases where the name is displayed and you can click it to go to some text with a link to the source, there's no great problem (but perhaps getting there could be more direct). My point was that getting to the source code is what a user wants more often than getting a disassembled representation. From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:16:51 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2022 11:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator