From unknown Tue Jun 24 13:57:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#55623: 29.0.50; Mention that (face-foreground 'default) can return "unspecified-fg" Resent-From: Visuwesh Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 05:40:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 55623 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 55623@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.16534571701527 (code B ref -1); Wed, 25 May 2022 05:40:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2022 05:39:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54110 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ntjk2-0000OZ-Lo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 01:39:30 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:51982) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ntjk0-0000OR-Ud for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 01:39:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50730) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ntjk0-00038N-Mk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 01:39:28 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-x541.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::541]:38669) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ntjjy-0004La-Uz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 01:39:28 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-x541.google.com with SMTP id 137so18065064pgb.5 for ; Tue, 24 May 2022 22:39:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=QgpvlX+agNRpZKt1xcx+EdH215VDV5+hg3xiF+kI/Wc=; b=SeTPhJkq0jKb93GOXRPzaghGMOr1qL7N3lknY2MUuOX74vhXKwwYfHUqXggcOLqjCU hY9uucnGeKFnMQ2sZwyPhOKUWROX/DFeD3r3Ijy31rOMyqXGzqk3izJGBXb3oKa+a1WI Ro0xDsQNXzdwzueOSMbSyJEiFycWJy6oXLFQYrwbFyGSwomYRB4hJuJUQZk5iPKwTkJi NTma0UwMBduzh+ZJ/epj+7jCfIZK+tFp/Q3TlpX3ZiELoToFXde0kOvP9i5+o03d0yz+ zHI760iLA8UxSJOEpbqgx4YtGQ9sDgOqQBHe3dE6G0/HZKMvwoqx+93gvBHTtUVzVMl0 9l5g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=QgpvlX+agNRpZKt1xcx+EdH215VDV5+hg3xiF+kI/Wc=; b=7mQh0yajtFY7d4Jtkct4hFD+2lF1QKvH7CLq+povoUBQE5RqKbutd/g0IZkYocEG4Y PBhIJOMw31dJjOlD51jFJDRBerfvW0aFJN29Iuds/V61lEUDlIYZaGrzK6wV65feRwmC 1GQBin9NICm2OnIG4MDbrx9sU2gb7miFtAhz7aA7Xr3DYqMIyrbvvpfYMQ+JL483EK7j 9fj6vfDmtdDfo0YF6lTCHkdSGH8ebhuo2tOOTyskaZ2fvyqCCDbcxASosnWqev87ahiK kkPC2EhTIa86+EVNtDXpceUd0yZ3TzDCYyMFH4eSrfoN3UGExZFg9kxdQ1vezaXaG5e8 c/vg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532990b15CBuiEXvD85W6nn+EAer3YuFzOomRW9yBT+3vUTsjQMa RO3F6px9fgrbVWajjuLicbUl0vBMlllYAQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxSDqWfF/bsMrWULhWAr38XqJjqjpkqBA6Gti8uMx1szsmtK27nFegpshhatzdUhRkFaXl7bA== X-Received: by 2002:a65:6a47:0:b0:3f5:d7a8:44ee with SMTP id o7-20020a656a47000000b003f5d7a844eemr27278642pgu.330.1653457158543; Tue, 24 May 2022 22:39:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([49.205.86.52]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x17-20020a170902821100b0015e8d4eb2a8sm8103910pln.242.2022.05.24.22.39.16 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 24 May 2022 22:39:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Visuwesh Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 11:09:04 +0530 Message-ID: <87ilpub287.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::541; envelope-from=visuweshm@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x541.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) In a tty frame and when using a theme that does not explicitly set the default face's :foreground/:background [1], (face-attribute 'default :foreg= round) returns "unspecified-fg". This value is surprising when the docstring of `face-attribute' says, To ensure that the return value is always specified and absolute, use a value of =E2=80=98default=E2=80=99 for INHERIT; this will resolve any u= nspecified or relative values by merging with the =E2=80=98default=E2=80=99 face (whi= ch is always completely specified). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I opened the Elisp manual and tried to isearch for "unspecified-fg", but it got me no matches. It would be nice if this return value was documented somewhere. [1] If I use the adwaita theme instead, then `face-foreground' does indeed return a colour. P.S. I'm filing this bug report after this was brought up in https://github.com/alphapapa/ement.el/issues/34#issuecomment-906893756. From unknown Tue Jun 24 13:57:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#55623: 29.0.50; Mention that (face-foreground 'default) can return "unspecified-fg" Resent-From: Po Lu Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 07:19:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55623 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Visuwesh Cc: 55623@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 55623-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55623.165346308210889 (code B ref 55623); Wed, 25 May 2022 07:19:01 +0000 Received: (at 55623) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2022 07:18:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54183 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ntlHN-0002pZ-SW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 03:18:02 -0400 Received: from sonic307-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.190.31]:45451) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ntlHL-0002oz-10 for 55623@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 03:18:00 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1653463072; bh=xWgh3M/oRcM8DXKuPpKpiuIFf+N0mHuzdbtYpMHJ/nw=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=CWt5amnfvAwRoABKvF3XikoCNqVFCctI26bgpj3elvsy1cgU7QcYQlHL619MkeYTStlDU1D5czceckSnGVYJNSFDwTZ6xEwr8EKn5koKOJHoEYRko/Sctorc8QYxiyO5WctmSDHi8vzUOymQ8ytBOpmI1DcLyL1ZVfbqWuXGdW7fU/DoC6WPCbgzsvjsKlbx/R4AVxJg0ArMhFqg4mRUKNi20VdnwLTYQPa/KzgdpeCauuG5L2vPC7x0MAGO6F1t/fXeK2arWzKcxp5hU8I33fmABWUpN8FBHgdH63twkbuZU59iEhyjoj8Ei+GcYZN2zJ06cjO47h0wkRrH7Md8ag== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1653463072; bh=/Kwa2c4E04n9gaWj3oQdD5DlgrrxUAr2y26K/YCxwml=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=G7pBjDrJjc0eQG40gUIysvFAqt1DniW2qcCDwyZbYQPiy2esh3cj2c68df1YfcZl+yvl9SPgznOfULTtL2G7+ZrUK6IdkMIJgTLRd0eksge0xVm3nh1kNl69oHr2sk4aCySvTHkPdwbVZ8XD/+ZwWo4HOCMiaE6pmgonkXuxyNUOE5FJmLPRlG0q7jSNu4VQOX6AC+x9A4kdR7+BbqtkZLjA7fzlTxsADjJoG8ITIXT2oWCTxVm8Z7NfAChwbsedGRVLDQI2PmjaoUHiPQcYKVVlVRS70OedLNwY5Md9xC3QEwEHoYucLggIk8Tn8/6E3xL9sf2N/a6q/IPolBQh5w== X-YMail-OSG: n98hcHIVM1lxNiGdnEs6jH1Vjx7ZKa53SNNdKfzpaJxBYUDmUdeCxRjRQFdbidH bPnyVXwGKILXcKzn8fHDHMy1H9quN2JPv12WyUaKyuR.qjXGPLsU78oLgJcQFoGmOsD15zqhipuB Stt.wolP3LPJ8FsRhIRV.8v5l809uy_sVeB5H5s8u4DPUTS_xCLAtXNHutiyRX4fbg6tvqRrKWF8 s4PNkFI7m4jCkkUH0wznwPyTznVq9xQ85g2GkVjGoNaCibFbGqb95qUHD7LeZfHD9FSft95K0Seh YquPRN76kvTrxDEMew6PbLJqn5qzsWNyutoqIcAX3P0JeL1JmP.7TLoXj2ECqC7p7tNkiJy4QKZK lPYKjilQNagaAXcxghQ4f1enRxzWyU67vMel.BCgPIYLiqIXCM7ebi2xIXguPQ2TKMxG0gMHyYPJ QCZeFO2wn4_2F6aK8pEzF6BpnTj..bDBU0tLPRmCljqyDgVxkMCLN3fWiSZ6vmK1BsCSX5D51ejs i.Vx5iCcdhx5bbRKpX4x9AwNzdC_1ZWI8N2Nzoe6dyJ2OuBC4LVQ4voslQT_L07moJPkEj4jZRLg hFmb5b_yFh.4NvXIFQC7ztIyzVyEppj_rhUlWc.gC7bkX3FcT520cEKaWybzRUrSAFkRuKuhpwpS ip_dF9yxqTgLVycnMvOGWyU4eUyt2bkN7Na8a_6PvK3OFXuvaXWuiwouGBhIay07FV5tSe_nE11A G3g83_dSi7lh8pLtwY6JAZAzoLF54VvcL0Aymp38_Z.4_mHx8rNcKEr4xR1SiZW7Ay.yHE4gTz8B rCk.bHAUEFJzkxtU52gQs7PhGlglnbg9bO_lH9POJK8OOcld9Wo4s.yAJp3tl6B29XI6MWFcGnMa 7XAHMT5EPo.D9XbFDTWwEwfbIuZUc5euGPRkzHr63K74qz0MvLL0ahz86asp_RNd7TScSeCEiwWc PRRw5.qonFsVS69APHxh1Yic.jI2c.8NSbjCU7KsclLpNhcXYBsFR7ah9fq99MnMPWoqeGINZgZZ eWY9xVaXoLXu5uiU.Oyhj7WZr.zQJ5HRg0l219o.jW3irM7zyrQsO0sZIX8UFn_ekVbtXXdvYg9e 6S0tu5Nyhu2FzRSoe5vUEPzq6kYCK9WegYDOY8iXi.mz0c3jfiD_zKQN7gsYFweXNPZbnxxV2.la 1aogrFi4l7badfRxsYknRqJLQIa8uZxETcv3yf5wTxzpw15bmBudd.YK1VXLQhhCQ7fQRcBtJuoO bqiFgDaOsdV2FYUbGpnjuHoKzGRXrIYW.Jlj5zbP7vNlPwSNAdRK4X7AOjTpAfJ.HjTKR1ah_uOB hax72aWSnjPYrgs4IkhMoAP7UWIPwqM3TnRQdRASqWxx6x65J1D5.dKdRe2DyOYaM6SwnJmkTt7b eE8_Ge4eo8mq29hOqxVw41zAAFVO4T4Qj9tJZZ8550A0Kz4LBu1cv.g3WDQkjj3QDiLAaYndzGu5 UPlUhYg.sj0SKKb9SGHLxy_89w4dRUSKfmMjbr3TMS7GEJXG5h8q7WibmZyy0MbJ85WyJbWKcnp7 TQd2RIIcQzdoy4pXK0G65CZHzBdEEFUWii2WmgE06LZwLPTAVmZ5BoJrmKxL52GobZGfT1TmnnJk 2Z3fj5ZSD3CND9hFkswFRdp7L6gKJ8PaNFjw9G1oGXzJd3Mi5w2AzG9VTsYo8HDdtD_PcBjKPGse 8SXbfOpu1hzvhHCWsHqrQuWdNZpYUFBbl44Xbx_M5ZSaen.spMT.apu4wa.l7gHCD9F5pc2jKxrY cf3KHWWB8gB7QrSY96GHkOrkhDHSNi86.Z9oXa17NmiXQBOy3ExEPxuSzI2vEiOQySOIn7OWTq67 LCwCj4V5XVG2_RW58ubDjxpUDdAtj6BWnMgMXYvWdcpyy.C568u33VZGslgRa6on8plDjiwwFZxn 2WkGei5YA9wqw8gp78mTVdn5aa815OG7pwa.XbPg4CAbIOOolS8HiK6LcC4GTqjB.Yym7zO9lUBM EmmlqsV4x8SHMX58TTRX0Hnswnyn6kGAzDq.PNvHb3XJkHaKvIjnWy6g_FBKFB.UFN3DRagIAORL xOBv6WkoqNS6tm6sCVNUjop7PZzx3JTJOzNvHvYWYuDsJdIlPYPmAqgUgNsdqn7Hqq6lxBg2Dxk7 jf61poDc3Xl95JZcJiJM6anYD4lPRG2d6cDD_enu2amb0nBeYJE8EXCxk4dco6l92uAnDsQEenF6 Hx.nuCcLU7Wu2.vvsv.bW5g98uQIzR5uFnQBYlpU6mbdiwtuTQa0auSZFi.MMyz4- X-Sonic-MF: Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic307.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 25 May 2022 07:17:52 +0000 Received: by hermes--canary-production-sg3-7959d4d9bd-lwwxg (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 1d4b3a5f802016b1799820632f248240; Wed, 25 May 2022 07:17:48 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu References: <87ilpub287.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 15:17:44 +0800 In-Reply-To: <87ilpub287.fsf@gmail.com> (Visuwesh's message of "Wed, 25 May 2022 11:09:04 +0530") Message-ID: <87o7zmjd2f.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20225 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 1026 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Visuwesh writes: > In a tty frame and when using a theme that does not explicitly set the > default face's :foreground/:background [1], (face-attribute 'default :for= eground) > returns "unspecified-fg". This value is surprising when the docstring > of `face-attribute' says, > > To ensure that the return value is always specified and absolute, use= a > value of =E2=80=98default=E2=80=99 for INHERIT; this will resolve any= unspecified or > relative values by merging with the =E2=80=98default=E2=80=99 face (w= hich is always > completely specified). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > I opened the Elisp manual and tried to isearch for "unspecified-fg", but > it got me no matches. It would be nice if this return value was > documented somewhere. Isn't that a special color which means to use the terminal's default foreground (and/or background, in the case of unspecified-bg) colors? If so, it should be documented as that instead. From unknown Tue Jun 24 13:57:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#55623: 29.0.50; Mention that (face-foreground 'default) can return "unspecified-fg" Resent-From: Visuwesh Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 07:54:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55623 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 55623@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com X-Debbugs-Original-To: Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" X-Debbugs-Original-Cc: Po Lu , 55623@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.165346521914528 (code B ref -1); Wed, 25 May 2022 07:54:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2022 07:53:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54242 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ntlpr-0003mF-23 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 03:53:39 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:48938) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ntlpo-0003m1-Ua for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Wed, 25 May 2022 00:53:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Visuwesh In-Reply-To: <87o7zmjd2f.fsf@yahoo.com> (Po Lu via's message of "Wed, 25 May 2022 15:17:44 +0800") References: <87ilpub287.fsf@gmail.com> <87o7zmjd2f.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 13:23:09 +0530 Message-ID: <87czg2aw0q.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1043; envelope-from=visuweshm@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x1043.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) [=E0=AE=AA=E0=AF=81=E0=AE=A4=E0=AE=A9=E0=AF=8D =E0=AE=AE=E0=AF=87 25, 2022]= Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors= " wrote: > Visuwesh writes: > >> In a tty frame and when using a theme that does not explicitly set the >> default face's :foreground/:background [1], (face-attribute 'default :fo= reground) >> returns "unspecified-fg". This value is surprising when the docstring >> of `face-attribute' says, >> >> To ensure that the return value is always specified and absolute, us= e a >> value of =E2=80=98default=E2=80=99 for INHERIT; this will resolve an= y unspecified or >> relative values by merging with the =E2=80=98default=E2=80=99 face (= which is always >> completely specified). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> I opened the Elisp manual and tried to isearch for "unspecified-fg", but >> it got me no matches. It would be nice if this return value was >> documented somewhere. > > Isn't that a special color which means to use the terminal's default > foreground (and/or background, in the case of unspecified-bg) colors? > > If so, it should be documented as that instead. Indeed, "unspecified-fg/bg" means to use the terminal's default fg/bg. But AFAICT, it is not specified in the manual anywhere. From unknown Tue Jun 24 13:57:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#55623: 29.0.50; Mention that (face-foreground 'default) can return "unspecified-fg" Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 13:20:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55623 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Visuwesh Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 55623@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 55623-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55623.165348476217238 (code B ref 55623); Wed, 25 May 2022 13:20:02 +0000 Received: (at 55623) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2022 13:19:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54624 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ntqv4-0004Ty-65 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 09:19:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58182) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ntqv0-0004Tk-H4 for 55623@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 09:19:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:60900) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ntquv-0007hF-3p; Wed, 25 May 2022 09:19:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=W3PkX5BBt1cEKPqz4HL+z2NyRMTKQec8zWaXhTHrEZo=; b=hSQxh6eX3T5FKzqjkDPe CvouNav+v3zXkfK+9Mjfxv/TPyaEGu2ev87sdxC0OVICGXjXgFWIB0yVP+GweIp82Na5KZkJ9jbF6 PlUwWSkkvKYhdBiWaHTsAzwtOEqdq2JZMqyQFzgWzbD6P8rEb5iXE70VQk342vZ8gbCXHF2KZprz+ OrSPj5Cs/3vRAMehGHNuv4U+payyE0URAaSv3fD05AJM9deeHK5txE39KWt7t7peYa0Yt9RGJPsqY vMAXBEz9IrRvooqBiVNJjhxz6jo2yB6KLU9kkBPWDbVRv54rdBl2451ESrR0lUdfdoVRFJOhYsfpf fB/xomAPBwnxiQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1346 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ntquh-0007JA-TK; Wed, 25 May 2022 09:19:02 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 16:18:51 +0300 Message-Id: <83pmk14uo4.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <87czg2aw0q.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Visuwesh on Wed, 25 May 2022 13:23:09 +0530) References: <87ilpub287.fsf@gmail.com> <87o7zmjd2f.fsf@yahoo.com> <87czg2aw0q.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Resent-From: Visuwesh > Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" > Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org > Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com > From: Visuwesh > Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 13:23:09 +0530 > > [புதன் மே 25, 2022] Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" wrote: > > > Visuwesh writes: > > > >> In a tty frame and when using a theme that does not explicitly set the > >> default face's :foreground/:background [1], (face-attribute 'default :foreground) > >> returns "unspecified-fg". This value is surprising when the docstring > >> of `face-attribute' says, > >> > >> To ensure that the return value is always specified and absolute, use a > >> value of ‘default’ for INHERIT; this will resolve any unspecified or > >> relative values by merging with the ‘default’ face (which is always > >> completely specified). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> > >> I opened the Elisp manual and tried to isearch for "unspecified-fg", but > >> it got me no matches. It would be nice if this return value was > >> documented somewhere. > > > > Isn't that a special color which means to use the terminal's default > > foreground (and/or background, in the case of unspecified-bg) colors? > > > > If so, it should be documented as that instead. > > Indeed, "unspecified-fg/bg" means to use the terminal's default fg/bg. Right. Thus, when the documentation talks about "unspecified values for attributes" and about the default face being "always completely specified", it excluded the "unspecified-fg" and "unspecified-bg" values, because those are considered "specified", except in some rare cases. It is not an accident that they are strings and not symbols. > But AFAICT, it is not specified in the manual anywhere. They aren't documented on purpose: documenting them would be messy and at best will confuse anyone who isn't familiar with the internals of color support on TTY frames. They are in effect internal implementation details which unfortunately leak outside of the internals. What would you like to be documented about these special values, and why? From unknown Tue Jun 24 13:57:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#55623: 29.0.50; Mention that (face-foreground 'default) can return "unspecified-fg" Resent-From: Visuwesh Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 14:59:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55623 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, adam@alphapapa.net, 55623@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 55623-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55623.16534906885588 (code B ref 55623); Wed, 25 May 2022 14:59:01 +0000 Received: (at 55623) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2022 14:58:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56221 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ntsSc-0001S3-RR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 10:58:08 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f68.google.com ([209.85.216.68]:54266) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ntsSU-0001RM-O6 for 55623@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 10:58:06 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f68.google.com with SMTP id z11so10111932pjc.3 for <55623@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 25 May 2022 07:57:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=GCSJHeD8gUnrgaQt5UFS6B1UYVnJH2GAO4QNLvLgpSk=; b=WQv1exf8waB+mWqaPMSYXCtDFadCmX+/pd+beiaX8XrjCKGa+c1UWPTqU+iOkQfQa6 dNA+7eMF3acJIqOvyS38RU2sCHd/KERgtZ0rLHOnbhHirMJaY0NdIuUUpfaVxts2OTpj bN5NxH3Lo3KWUAXyzi6pgbB4b4UAL8UhimOQYng5pAdyJs9l3PBVfJUPMpzS/g9xsxMV TalKQ9mZkytlIWWab4UNKEmW3ZEUgglIWBs4aOl9PM2Qdhp7j7lE5l8okH47qgqLgzNe 8QPSmf9sDeWC5nwtDyPiI1+JY5pdF8YhvuDb0tL6jWVGayo3dKzMnSpcU0tlsOwJX+5o dtZw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=GCSJHeD8gUnrgaQt5UFS6B1UYVnJH2GAO4QNLvLgpSk=; b=MH5IVz7707Ofacn/FPzdgLQmhgwzTY6o1Ue8YUoUhXntoaGB62W2GtsOxDTCfDEycA lAJDJCBbdYyguTAYc/zfYF0wNvIChz0iNlSikqu/axluKLy4LPFoSmJYHkFQdThh/Zrs l8Lu6L0koiFBNU/L8YVwmh4yi4S6a5ffE1RPAtDqebzwx2KnY+XnaON2TLghxTaR+ORc 7dmQVHvclO2Z5uofesWpdtaMQTp+9cr3rinj3Ip3JLdoWrM8IraV/fsS1E24VDrbAg7R EGakTJMC8pwigIioYgHyZwut8IwDarVDdBUKr/hd96A3CDPgFuuvTysn/u+tn1uECev8 wT4A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5308alZJjjerJzZEYx3tvstL+Z4p7xnAYNK/NMrs0eO2H4rePERV gd5DCezma8DCPOCU3geq4/w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwuGcnedU2CkEeYo/+cai/U6E7zJL40BlZ7yK+oyjpJfhYpSBF+KOiaocGLbEEH3wMeVwfjVw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:a385:b0:1cb:bfa8:ae01 with SMTP id x5-20020a17090aa38500b001cbbfa8ae01mr10867905pjp.116.1653490672600; Wed, 25 May 2022 07:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([49.205.86.52]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bf3-20020a170902b90300b001624965d83bsm3544777plb.228.2022.05.25.07.57.51 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 25 May 2022 07:57:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Visuwesh References: <87ilpub287.fsf@gmail.com> <87o7zmjd2f.fsf@yahoo.com> <87czg2aw0q.fsf@gmail.com> <83pmk14uo4.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 20:27:41 +0530 In-Reply-To: <83pmk14uo4.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 25 May 2022 16:18:51 +0300") Message-ID: <878rqpbqxm.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) [=E0=AE=AA=E0=AF=81=E0=AE=A4=E0=AE=A9=E0=AF=8D =E0=AE=AE=E0=AF=87 25, 2022]= Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Resent-From: Visuwesh >> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" >> Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org >> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org >> Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com >> From: Visuwesh >> Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 13:23:09 +0530 >>=20 >> [=E0=AE=AA=E0=AF=81=E0=AE=A4=E0=AE=A9=E0=AF=8D =E0=AE=AE=E0=AF=87 25, 20= 22] Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text edit= ors" wrote: >>=20 >> > Visuwesh writes: >> > >> >> In a tty frame and when using a theme that does not explicitly set the >> >> default face's :foreground/:background [1], (face-attribute 'default = :foreground) >> >> returns "unspecified-fg". This value is surprising when the docstring >> >> of `face-attribute' says, >> >> >> >> To ensure that the return value is always specified and absolute,= use a >> >> value of =E2=80=98default=E2=80=99 for INHERIT; this will resolve= any unspecified or >> >> relative values by merging with the =E2=80=98default=E2=80=99 fac= e (which is always >> >> completely specified). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^= ^^ >> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> >> >> I opened the Elisp manual and tried to isearch for "unspecified-fg", = but >> >> it got me no matches. It would be nice if this return value was >> >> documented somewhere. >> > >> > Isn't that a special color which means to use the terminal's default >> > foreground (and/or background, in the case of unspecified-bg) colors? >> > >> > If so, it should be documented as that instead. >>=20 >> Indeed, "unspecified-fg/bg" means to use the terminal's default fg/bg. > > Right. Thus, when the documentation talks about "unspecified values > for attributes" and about the default face being "always completely > specified", it excluded the "unspecified-fg" and "unspecified-bg" > values, because those are considered "specified", except in some rare > cases. It is not an accident that they are strings and not symbols. > >> But AFAICT, it is not specified in the manual anywhere. > > They aren't documented on purpose: documenting them would be messy and > at best will confuse anyone who isn't familiar with the internals of > color support on TTY frames. They are in effect internal > implementation details which unfortunately leak outside of the > internals. > I agree but I think anyone who is fairly familiar with terminal emulators can understand that you cannot find the terminal emulator's colourscheme (for a lack of a better word) in a terminal-agnostic way. Thus, I believe there won't be too much confusion if we added such a text. > What would you like to be documented about these special values, and > why? I would like it if some words along the lines of... The 'default' face is always fully specified except in special cases of TTY frames where :foreground and :background attributes may be the strings "unspecified-fg" and "unspecified-bg" respectively. in the manual somewhere. You could also add the implementation details, but I leave the decision to you. As for the why: In the bug report I alluded to in the OP, ement.el relied on the completeness of the default-face specification to get the colour of the face which is then used to calculate a different colour (similar to the rainbow coloured nicknames you often see in irc clients). This special case of the TTY frame would be handled correctly if it was spelt out somewhere. (It isn't now since the value returned is a surprise.) But since I'm kind of a third party here, maybe Adam can chime in (added to CCs)? From unknown Tue Jun 24 13:57:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#55623: 29.0.50; Mention that (face-foreground 'default) can return "unspecified-fg" Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 17:08:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55623 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Visuwesh Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, adam@alphapapa.net, 55623@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 55623-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55623.165349847420184 (code B ref 55623); Wed, 25 May 2022 17:08:02 +0000 Received: (at 55623) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2022 17:07:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56344 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ntuU4-0005FJ-Oo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 13:07:54 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56578) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ntuU0-0005F2-Jm for 55623@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 13:07:43 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46378) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ntuTu-0006iw-AR; Wed, 25 May 2022 13:07:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Ig+aiFluPFf78oE1L1+AXkiU/XGz+n24kAx2q47ZbRQ=; b=PBVp35C9zxZ+ 3yu7Q3KQcr/Q5fgAf4dL2q8LuROox7SKLVXRCzwdvxze3KnvGBFNZX6jz5k5crCgMbh1Gx5tMYmlT 8POWe5RXcO038NpCXqMC0ipuL0sGrcutsTilDG5ZOzy/JX+4x1fT77h7YXq6xXTyFl6709uPLN3/K FvVRbxmHKCTJGrUd0JX7Ja5yIV7k3C+b9LKR73mQNQ043ZUPCR2tHlfWnI1VoVan3IBGvire/LV9r aS/M3tEkKm9WO4SeYp6k/LMsZUWP69RK00/ZeyFAhcxqLld6t8IHa7bbNoguGBW6LD5JaU29vetr5 7e72KMkGMuA+AgnLzzry/w==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2904 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ntuTt-0002CZ-Pv; Wed, 25 May 2022 13:07:34 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 20:07:24 +0300 Message-Id: <83tu9dpmlv.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <878rqpbqxm.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Visuwesh on Wed, 25 May 2022 20:27:41 +0530) References: <87ilpub287.fsf@gmail.com> <87o7zmjd2f.fsf@yahoo.com> <87czg2aw0q.fsf@gmail.com> <83pmk14uo4.fsf@gnu.org> <878rqpbqxm.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Visuwesh > Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 55623@debbugs.gnu.org, adam@alphapapa.net > Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 20:27:41 +0530 > > > They aren't documented on purpose: documenting them would be messy and > > at best will confuse anyone who isn't familiar with the internals of > > color support on TTY frames. They are in effect internal > > implementation details which unfortunately leak outside of the > > internals. > > > > I agree but I think anyone who is fairly familiar with terminal > emulators can understand that you cannot find the terminal emulator's > colourscheme (for a lack of a better word) in a terminal-agnostic way. > Thus, I believe there won't be too much confusion if we added such a > text. Which "such text" did you have in mind? The problem here is to come up with a useful text, which explains something without raising a lot more questions. > > What would you like to be documented about these special values, and > > why? > > I would like it if some words along the lines of... > > The 'default' face is always fully specified except in special cases > of TTY frames where :foreground and :background attributes may be > the strings "unspecified-fg" and "unspecified-bg" respectively. Without explaining the reason for these strange "color names", how can this be useful to anyone? > As for the why: In the bug report I alluded to in the OP, ement.el > relied on the completeness of the default-face specification to get the > colour of the face which is then used to calculate a different colour > (similar to the rainbow coloured nicknames you often see in irc > clients). This special case of the TTY frame would be handled correctly > if it was spelt out somewhere. (It isn't now since the value returned is > a surprise.) In such rare cases, it is much easier to explain the issue to a person who needs to deal with it (or thinks he/she needs to) than come up with a description useful enough to be in the manual. They are just "special color names", that's all. From unknown Tue Jun 24 13:57:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#55623: 29.0.50; Mention that (face-foreground 'default) can return "unspecified-fg" Resent-From: Visuwesh Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 17:23:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55623 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, adam@alphapapa.net, 55623@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 55623-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55623.165349934221858 (code B ref 55623); Wed, 25 May 2022 17:23:01 +0000 Received: (at 55623) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2022 17:22:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56385 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ntuiE-0005gT-48 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 13:22:22 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f193.google.com ([209.85.214.193]:35493) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ntuiB-0005g9-3a for 55623@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 13:22:21 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f193.google.com with SMTP id c2so19147780plh.2 for <55623@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 25 May 2022 10:22:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Vda91ljZoYGnAuE3osqJphSnSOrrZ8u+5WE8eFw+04w=; b=dNJku+VWQ4fTcb0cNtTR1hDGyxbRZpEWKnAYOyRSVEtAHygKNRKHdMmZ30HSj4+YMH j/wCSA1KeCqfq4lAzYhmyY5H0mvMrlv+ZJ5e3eRu06o/Q6Az1jgzT6KIyXN1kIuzZ3AN vb5ZbLOnpc8Jy5wnPUy5E7F7x0f24joYakjvU1Q1HidORKf3/hq+JGAZKKC8paXovPwB F8VGRiECURNkzMpo3BdvO1l8FgzoJ/qAAnv+dyuCgNhO9JZlDGXx/qj5Sem7U+Tni3Hq mJvBjrqzxr/VymB7X+GjMv43paYQXyeU6hCrX0PzNNpzptAoxexmj79mXetAPHdkZHt2 XlqA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Vda91ljZoYGnAuE3osqJphSnSOrrZ8u+5WE8eFw+04w=; b=CC1Kk+7jEGBL0Sf3iePFmlbEFu083+HcyKqbS6/cNy/podvrL4mUYKdMhHk7S5FISr No8dCcyT6dUEyXPaK7DUZ/2Los6jEZwtqGZL9aTbkHyc796fVlOF9FqlUiqwwBzz4eks wDmnJdMeD1Lmx8lkHERXgIioRYjSZ1guU3nRVJlp4R637rtvyCRSxD3uGEMTSIdxYhGb dZF/jKVSk0MU/nRH9HlMMJlCFlYvN4a/MSddNPgHhC0i2xBPJwhP6dUsEy6d+UGboHFe L028/ql/1nKiIr826q70Gy7EBFwFm0dT27DSQNIfcj0ECygincKd+eBvfGqXrdqWmCjA jU+w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531H/AdHb/xHagfNXwKxkH7h6QeUrLnve5319lThSKpTvCbupYY4 HFDLYmxx1r1rAM6r7VZTdlE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyUwVtJOy2/P6VGZN65ZYzEESdiRBoKFxJoAVSJcN5q5MqsyoWu88OoTb4z+cvGdTJ20gbw+w== X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:32d2:b0:161:d485:613f with SMTP id i18-20020a17090332d200b00161d485613fmr33727186plr.173.1653499333256; Wed, 25 May 2022 10:22:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([49.205.86.52]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id cw25-20020a056a00451900b0050dc76281d3sm11752838pfb.173.2022.05.25.10.22.11 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 25 May 2022 10:22:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Visuwesh References: <87ilpub287.fsf@gmail.com> <87o7zmjd2f.fsf@yahoo.com> <87czg2aw0q.fsf@gmail.com> <83pmk14uo4.fsf@gnu.org> <878rqpbqxm.fsf@gmail.com> <83tu9dpmlv.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 22:52:00 +0530 In-Reply-To: <83tu9dpmlv.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 25 May 2022 20:07:24 +0300") Message-ID: <87o7zla5on.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) [=E0=AE=AA=E0=AF=81=E0=AE=A4=E0=AE=A9=E0=AF=8D =E0=AE=AE=E0=AF=87 25, 2022]= Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Visuwesh >> Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 55623@debbugs.gnu.org, adam@alphapapa.net >> Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 20:27:41 +0530 >>=20 >> > They aren't documented on purpose: documenting them would be messy and >> > at best will confuse anyone who isn't familiar with the internals of >> > color support on TTY frames. They are in effect internal >> > implementation details which unfortunately leak outside of the >> > internals. >> > >>=20 >> I agree but I think anyone who is fairly familiar with terminal >> emulators can understand that you cannot find the terminal emulator's >> colourscheme (for a lack of a better word) in a terminal-agnostic way. >> Thus, I believe there won't be too much confusion if we added such a >> text. > > Which "such text" did you have in mind? The problem here is to come > up with a useful text, which explains something without raising a lot > more questions. > The text that could be added to describe these strange colour names. >> > What would you like to be documented about these special values, and >> > why? >>=20 >> I would like it if some words along the lines of... >>=20 >> The 'default' face is always fully specified except in special cases >> of TTY frames where :foreground and :background attributes may be >> the strings "unspecified-fg" and "unspecified-bg" respectively. > > Without explaining the reason for these strange "color names", how can > this be useful to anyone? > Which is why, I said "You could also add the implementation details, but I leave the decision to you." How about the following instead then? The 'default' face is always fully specified except in special cases of TTY frames where :foreground and :background attributes may be the strings "unspecified-bg" and "unspecified-bg" respectively to mean to use the TTY's color for the foreground and background. >> As for the why: In the bug report I alluded to in the OP, ement.el >> relied on the completeness of the default-face specification to get the >> colour of the face which is then used to calculate a different colour >> (similar to the rainbow coloured nicknames you often see in irc >> clients). This special case of the TTY frame would be handled correctly >> if it was spelt out somewhere. (It isn't now since the value returned is >> a surprise.) > > In such rare cases, it is much easier to explain the issue to a person > who needs to deal with it (or thinks he/she needs to) than come up > with a description useful enough to be in the manual. > > They are just "special color names", that's all. I suppose. But I think it would be for the best if we outlined it in the manual. It comes as a "surprise" after all. From unknown Tue Jun 24 13:57:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#55623: 29.0.50; Mention that (face-foreground 'default) can return "unspecified-fg" Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 17:38:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55623 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Visuwesh Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, adam@alphapapa.net, 55623@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 55623-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55623.165350024323511 (code B ref 55623); Wed, 25 May 2022 17:38:01 +0000 Received: (at 55623) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2022 17:37:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56402 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ntuwk-000679-Nr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 13:37:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34894) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ntuwf-00066t-Uy for 55623@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 13:37:21 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46798) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ntuwa-00033S-Jf; Wed, 25 May 2022 13:37:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=fz4Ux7rSXuJ7CRRH6kXUr/lR6/DMLyawhOg/vySJV+Y=; b=ecW2kEzXQl61 2K9XzI9i+YLc61Ct+NDcZ6A3Hbcnv21sPXJsBxq+99l7m1nyPNU9U20a4tSadIwP3O4fbtf+bnYDl ZkVrTONNVtsssiZNhvSgzqiyfjVuFNHHUMMYU22WDsbGVvynpGHmJ0F8IkRFb5TGyFtj8KV2aqLHS siyZCo8xQexvx4eiBq2XFT9WzcfKoZCtf9yHizmf9rl3bgKeC1xxDLB0W19ZLzqWYQmaNdnY2TjmI YWoKzELdmIfcbMGKis5NA/uwEHKOxn3srPrHPWOEiNnmWkh/1QTOI9y5UD+9+YzF5+Y+b62wVN83h F0WqmtZruWERCyuiQtfU2g==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4721 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ntuwZ-0002Ny-S0; Wed, 25 May 2022 13:37:12 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 20:37:02 +0300 Message-Id: <83pmk1pl8h.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <87o7zla5on.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Visuwesh on Wed, 25 May 2022 22:52:00 +0530) References: <87ilpub287.fsf@gmail.com> <87o7zmjd2f.fsf@yahoo.com> <87czg2aw0q.fsf@gmail.com> <83pmk14uo4.fsf@gnu.org> <878rqpbqxm.fsf@gmail.com> <83tu9dpmlv.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7zla5on.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Visuwesh > Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, adam@alphapapa.net, 55623@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 22:52:00 +0530 > > How about the following instead then? > > The 'default' face is always fully specified except in special cases > of TTY frames where :foreground and :background attributes may be > the strings "unspecified-bg" and "unspecified-bg" respectively to > mean to use the TTY's color for the foreground and background. This is inaccurate and thus misleading. These special color names are just like any other color names, they are "special" only when Emacs needs to actually use them on the screen. For any other purposes, they are just color names. Thus, the default face is "fully specified" even when these colors are used. Also, these colors can be used by other faces, not just by 'default'. Technically, these colors just tell Emacs not to emit a color-changing command when it writes text to the screen, or emit a command that tells the terminal driver "reset to your default color". But this is an implementation detail, and we cannot talk about it in the manual without explaining a lot of details about the inner workings of color support on TTY frames. From unknown Tue Jun 24 13:57:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#55623: 29.0.50; Mention that (face-foreground 'default) can return "unspecified-fg" Resent-From: Adam Porter Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 27 May 2022 05:45:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55623 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii , Visuwesh Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 55623@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 55623-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55623.16536302919092 (code B ref 55623); Fri, 27 May 2022 05:45:01 +0000 Received: (at 55623) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 May 2022 05:44:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60650 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nuSmJ-0002Ma-2O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 May 2022 01:44:51 -0400 Received: from fuchsia.ash.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.222.64]:14607) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nuSmD-0002MK-0o for 55623@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Fri, 27 May 2022 05:44:40 +0000 Received: from [10.48.0.46] (unknown [45.131.192.13]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: inbox@alphapapa.net) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a295.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4L8YfH32QRz1Q8; Thu, 26 May 2022 22:44:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alphapapa.net; s=dreamhost; t=1653630279; bh=c/DVvbp2GVmtDJK4zuaUSH5Vw2ZdGU7lwLTGqrFHTj8=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Jnbr+n+Gj0N0sAxXGSQpWpZPnqTPqeH+G+/cM1sxZYOlbdXEc6xD39JnuVxRatAax Ojp/RtXfDvW7KXCfXKR8xOnQlnXQBa7rvtTN/i6IaZfLWT2Q5L9kY8czQYUYTV/fKC 7LHCk+2FrWKONAJY7mglZuYtRykBH5hzFV7JsnW6+cSrHJM0Kcx6EDmn/Ki11xeiVo duMlkyO6DiGPpKjzRXetf5oRa4YlMjiYDYSvs6fL+7YYUtnqH4FEELfeIs5vgmToFT iVhmGhx/+0wcJZ8N9Vy5Pq7+5DBN5bgetdg44f+UAPDKEJKRG/jHR90r2Baxoml53V x3+cizhxD9pDw== Message-ID: <4a17447f-c07f-b522-67a5-c81136dd4f4e@alphapapa.net> Date: Fri, 27 May 2022 00:44:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.6.1 Content-Language: en-US References: <87ilpub287.fsf@gmail.com> <87o7zmjd2f.fsf@yahoo.com> <87czg2aw0q.fsf@gmail.com> <83pmk14uo4.fsf@gnu.org> <878rqpbqxm.fsf@gmail.com> <83tu9dpmlv.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7zla5on.fsf@gmail.com> <83pmk1pl8h.fsf@gnu.org> From: Adam Porter In-Reply-To: <83pmk1pl8h.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) On 5/25/22 12:37, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Visuwesh >> Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, adam@alphapapa.net, 55623@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 22:52:00 +0530 >> >> How about the following instead then? >> >> The 'default' face is always fully specified except in special cases >> of TTY frames where :foreground and :background attributes may be >> the strings "unspecified-bg" and "unspecified-bg" respectively to >> mean to use the TTY's color for the foreground and background. > > This is inaccurate and thus misleading. These special color names are > just like any other color names, they are "special" only when Emacs > needs to actually use them on the screen. For any other purposes, > they are just color names. Thus, the default face is "fully > specified" even when these colors are used. Also, these colors can be > used by other faces, not just by 'default'. The code in question calls color-gradient on a face's foreground color, using the default face as the fallback: https://github.com/alphapapa/ement.el/blob/fd96491e82a5335058b72aaff7665f0a2c3d4495/ement-room-list.el#L201 (color-gradient (color-name-to-rgb (face-foreground 'ement-room-list-very-recent nil 'default)) (color-name-to-rgb (face-foreground 'ement-room-list-recent nil 'default)) 6) When running on a TTY, face-foreground returns "unspecified-fg", which causes color-name-to-rgb to return nil, which causes color-gradient to signal an error. > Technically, these colors just tell Emacs not to emit a color-changing > command when it writes text to the screen, or emit a command that > tells the terminal driver "reset to your default color". But this is > an implementation detail, and we cannot talk about it in the manual > without explaining a lot of details about the inner workings of color > support on TTY frames. Since the docstring says that the default face is always fully specified, I thought that meant that the default face's foreground would always have a defined, usable color name. Since "unspecified-fg" is not in the manual, and apparently isn't usable by, e.g. color-name-to-rgb (even on a graphical frame; and by "usable", I mean that it returns an expected, useful color name), it seemed like an oversight in the manual to not mention that string somewhere. Theoretically, if "unspecified-fg" were documented somewhere, I could have known that my code needs to account for it. I don't necessarily need to know about the inner workings of color support on a TTY--only that... (face-foreground 'default) ...may return "unspecified-fg" rather than a specific color name, and that, therefore... (color-name-to-rgb (face-foreground 'default)) ...may return nil rather than a color name. I think a sentence or two in the appropriate place could clear this up and prevent users like me from running into this problem. e.g. Note that, on non-graphical frames, the default face's foreground and background colors may be unspecified; in this case, those color names may be the special values "unspecified-fg" and "unspecified-bg", respectively. While these are in some senses legitimate color names in Emacs, not all functions that expect color names as arguments may handle these values as expected, so it may be necessary to check for these special color names before calling such functions with them. From unknown Tue Jun 24 13:57:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#55623: 29.0.50; Mention that (face-foreground 'default) can return "unspecified-fg" Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 27 May 2022 06:35:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55623 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Adam Porter Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 55623@debbugs.gnu.org, visuweshm@gmail.com Received: via spool by 55623-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55623.165363328422515 (code B ref 55623); Fri, 27 May 2022 06:35:01 +0000 Received: (at 55623) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 May 2022 06:34:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60700 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nuTYa-0005r5-7C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 May 2022 02:34:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46574) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nuTYY-0005qs-CH for 55623@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 May 2022 02:34:42 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52842) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nuTYS-0008HV-Nk; Fri, 27 May 2022 02:34:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=4qepwTK4X5ANavCDzKAfEnzPKiAZU2TpA+nIArKcccU=; b=Bj2DPieeKlLu alfLUThIn/k9phm/FW7LVhpGuelHZ1JZRJkD0IeBKE9ByQE5qxHlbeqw6GyOXBhqBWpKM5iPTEuCj mbSjRsJDhvtbjFhbRxHw6mmnnLravgx603gvCjl3IHg/82tnveImt8r0D1MjmtfjN7EFzE33BsLCK ZxWseET18BouIZe7emx1t+cKO3cIQsv2XRkzcUoInCEUEdI1KX28Y6gY5Nsc8VC2jn5cqM4iWj48N qAKVddc5HE1FyNijfYIf7oA3gKuF7hgP4DIujdFLK3eTp8r6hQriuGtNOFnLi19V84sROUlIPhy0R bvNKt3/RTBjZtEruN35pDw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2116 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nuTYS-0000GL-4p; Fri, 27 May 2022 02:34:36 -0400 Date: Fri, 27 May 2022 09:34:31 +0300 Message-Id: <83czfzo554.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <4a17447f-c07f-b522-67a5-c81136dd4f4e@alphapapa.net> (message from Adam Porter on Fri, 27 May 2022 00:44:38 -0500) References: <87ilpub287.fsf@gmail.com> <87o7zmjd2f.fsf@yahoo.com> <87czg2aw0q.fsf@gmail.com> <83pmk14uo4.fsf@gnu.org> <878rqpbqxm.fsf@gmail.com> <83tu9dpmlv.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7zla5on.fsf@gmail.com> <83pmk1pl8h.fsf@gnu.org> <4a17447f-c07f-b522-67a5-c81136dd4f4e@alphapapa.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 27 May 2022 00:44:38 -0500 > Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 55623@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Adam Porter > > (color-gradient > (color-name-to-rgb (face-foreground 'ement-room-list-very-recent > nil 'default)) > (color-name-to-rgb (face-foreground 'ement-room-list-recent > nil 'default)) > 6) > > When running on a TTY, face-foreground returns "unspecified-fg", which > causes color-name-to-rgb to return nil, which causes color-gradient to > signal an error. > > > Technically, these colors just tell Emacs not to emit a color-changing > > command when it writes text to the screen, or emit a command that > > tells the terminal driver "reset to your default color". But this is > > an implementation detail, and we cannot talk about it in the manual > > without explaining a lot of details about the inner workings of color > > support on TTY frames. > > Since the docstring says that the default face is always fully > specified, I thought that meant that the default face's foreground would > always have a defined, usable color name. Since "unspecified-fg" is not > in the manual, and apparently isn't usable by, e.g. color-name-to-rgb > (even on a graphical frame; and by "usable", I mean that it returns an > expected, useful color name), it seemed like an oversight in the manual > to not mention that string somewhere. These special pseudo-color names _are_ usable as colors, just not in every situation. For example, we cannot ask Emacs to produce RGB values for them, obviously. (If these pseudo-colors were the same as 'unspecified', you could trust us not to introduce such pseudo-colors in the first place, right?) > Theoretically, if "unspecified-fg" were documented somewhere, I could > have known that my code needs to account for it. I don't necessarily > need to know about the inner workings of color support on a TTY--only > that... > > (face-foreground 'default) > > ...may return "unspecified-fg" rather than a specific color name, and > that, therefore... > > (color-name-to-rgb (face-foreground 'default)) > > ...may return nil rather than a color name. These pseudo-colors were already mentioned in the doc string of color-values, which color-name-to-rgb calls. I've now mentioned them in a few more doc strings, including color-name-to-rgb and face-foreground. The additional text says something like On TTY frames, the returned color name can be "unspecified-fg", which stands for the unknown default foreground color of the display where the frame is displayed. > I think a sentence or two in the appropriate place could clear this up > and prevent users like me from running into this problem. e.g. > > Note that, on non-graphical frames, the default face's foreground and > background colors may be unspecified; in this case, those color names > may be the special values "unspecified-fg" and "unspecified-bg", > respectively. While these are in some senses legitimate color names > in Emacs, not all functions that expect color names as arguments may > handle these values as expected, so it may be necessary to check for > these special color names before calling such functions with them. This kind of vague description is not appropriate for the manual, which is supposed to _explain_ stuff, not just mention it. So I'd like for now to settle for the additions to the doc strings. After all, this issue didn't pop up since these pseudo-colors were introduced in Emacs 21, so it sounds like it's important only in some rare cases. Thanks. From unknown Tue Jun 24 13:57:53 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#55623: 29.0.50; Mention that (face-foreground 'default) can return "unspecified-fg" Resent-From: Adam Porter Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 27 May 2022 07:28:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55623 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 55623@debbugs.gnu.org, visuweshm@gmail.com Received: via spool by 55623-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55623.165363643427974 (code B ref 55623); Fri, 27 May 2022 07:28:01 +0000 Received: (at 55623) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 May 2022 07:27:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60811 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nuUNO-0007H6-38 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 27 May 2022 03:27:14 -0400 Received: from fuchsia.ash.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.222.64]:64142) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nuUNJ-0007Gu-Sy for 55623@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.6.1 Content-Language: en-US References: <87ilpub287.fsf@gmail.com> <87o7zmjd2f.fsf@yahoo.com> <87czg2aw0q.fsf@gmail.com> <83pmk14uo4.fsf@gnu.org> <878rqpbqxm.fsf@gmail.com> <83tu9dpmlv.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7zla5on.fsf@gmail.com> <83pmk1pl8h.fsf@gnu.org> <4a17447f-c07f-b522-67a5-c81136dd4f4e@alphapapa.net> <83czfzo554.fsf@gnu.org> From: Adam Porter In-Reply-To: <83czfzo554.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) On 5/27/22 01:34, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > These pseudo-colors were already mentioned in the doc string of > color-values, which color-name-to-rgb calls. I've now mentioned them > in a few more doc strings, including color-name-to-rgb and > face-foreground. The additional text says something like > > On TTY frames, the returned color name can be "unspecified-fg", > which stands for the unknown default foreground color of the > display where the frame is displayed. Thanks, Eli. From unknown Tue Jun 24 13:57:53 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Visuwesh Subject: bug#55623: closed (Re: bug#55623: 29.0.50; Mention that (face-foreground 'default) can return "unspecified-fg") Message-ID: References: <87ilpub287.fsf@gmail.com> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 55623 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 55623@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 21:39:01 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1656452341-1937-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1656452341-1937-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #55623: 29.0.50; Mention that (face-foreground 'default) can return "unspec= ified-fg" which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 55623@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 55623: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D55623 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1656452341-1937-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 55623-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jun 2022 21:38:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56571 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o6IuJ-0000Tw-NW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 17:38:04 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f41.google.com ([209.85.216.41]:54081) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o6IuG-0000Sr-54 for 55623-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 17:38:01 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f41.google.com with SMTP id d14so13801743pjs.3 for <55623-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 14:38:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=RS1t42YfWMJ+pJppxZo7/8Sm2NqHlGR9d5Cvb/GqZ/M=; b=HKyP2fTAJ8FzDduSbq3JhwH+McV39ph2nKWuLote1hu+xxoHzAQp+7FCYEr8cc2A1w q15uo3FOOeMPeFb4eH8qNVUcDvcaOHRQWykZ8C+Y/cdOSgcNClnsbczpWX9bEiz6nvkA 5k7G/P7DaL32tqfLb1XFCjkcghyQZEb1ngKnas+ifvmd+ivQvIuyk7dqLXKBxzMqQeAU kvNwMTmmXI40cBVSxumTSik5ny7WnXTfMf0pfijsrO5McRzyuPLbGEyDQlIhhydIGu4c xhwIrmDq4EJtecPr6hT3AqOs1cierSrkq9M+F9Pk5OWqCAmgrDu2wW3qM0kBZvoY4yhk GF5A== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora8DGI1jmFuENMDaOB4tFNT5l7rW7w3F/3de4nSACEpA1Yh6WsYB a5GAUqgMcIHUEsNJUFxxSH2/jCbWXx45M8wPSvs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1sJHDVwTcRgvKglO6KzzZXtmWgdWu3iP9Lxp++p6s9me+u9V7/uGvk/khRAw1XAtmIzTZv22LevQqPdY+gtSpI= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:7c0d:b0:16b:7dd2:626c with SMTP id x13-20020a1709027c0d00b0016b7dd2626cmr6917721pll.152.1656452274431; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 14:37:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 28 Jun 2022 14:37:54 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83czfzo554.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 27 May 2022 09:34:31 +0300") References: <87ilpub287.fsf@gmail.com> <87o7zmjd2f.fsf@yahoo.com> <87czg2aw0q.fsf@gmail.com> <83pmk14uo4.fsf@gnu.org> <878rqpbqxm.fsf@gmail.com> <83tu9dpmlv.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7zla5on.fsf@gmail.com> <83pmk1pl8h.fsf@gnu.org> <4a17447f-c07f-b522-67a5-c81136dd4f4e@alphapapa.net> <83czfzo554.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2022 14:37:54 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#55623: 29.0.50; Mention that (face-foreground 'default) can return "unspecified-fg" To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 55623-done Cc: Adam Porter , luangruo@yahoo.com, 55623-done@debbugs.gnu.org, visuweshm@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Date: Fri, 27 May 2022 00:44:38 -0500 >> Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, 55623@debbugs.gnu.org >> From: Adam Porter >> >> (color-gradient >> (color-name-to-rgb (face-foreground 'ement-room-list-very-recent >> nil 'default)) >> (color-name-to-rgb (face-foreground 'ement-room-list-recent >> nil 'default)) >> 6) >> >> When running on a TTY, face-foreground returns "unspecified-fg", which >> causes color-name-to-rgb to return nil, which causes color-gradient to >> signal an error. >> >> > Technically, these colors just tell Emacs not to emit a color-changing >> > command when it writes text to the screen, or emit a command that >> > tells the terminal driver "reset to your default color". But this is >> > an implementation detail, and we cannot talk about it in the manual >> > without explaining a lot of details about the inner workings of color >> > support on TTY frames. >> >> Since the docstring says that the default face is always fully >> specified, I thought that meant that the default face's foreground would >> always have a defined, usable color name. Since "unspecified-fg" is not >> in the manual, and apparently isn't usable by, e.g. color-name-to-rgb >> (even on a graphical frame; and by "usable", I mean that it returns an >> expected, useful color name), it seemed like an oversight in the manual >> to not mention that string somewhere. > > These special pseudo-color names _are_ usable as colors, just not in > every situation. For example, we cannot ask Emacs to produce RGB > values for them, obviously. (If these pseudo-colors were the same as > 'unspecified', you could trust us not to introduce such pseudo-colors > in the first place, right?) > >> Theoretically, if "unspecified-fg" were documented somewhere, I could >> have known that my code needs to account for it. I don't necessarily >> need to know about the inner workings of color support on a TTY--only >> that... >> >> (face-foreground 'default) >> >> ...may return "unspecified-fg" rather than a specific color name, and >> that, therefore... >> >> (color-name-to-rgb (face-foreground 'default)) >> >> ...may return nil rather than a color name. > > These pseudo-colors were already mentioned in the doc string of > color-values, which color-name-to-rgb calls. I've now mentioned them > in a few more doc strings, including color-name-to-rgb and > face-foreground. The additional text says something like > > On TTY frames, the returned color name can be "unspecified-fg", > which stands for the unknown default foreground color of the > display where the frame is displayed. > >> I think a sentence or two in the appropriate place could clear this up >> and prevent users like me from running into this problem. e.g. >> >> Note that, on non-graphical frames, the default face's foreground and >> background colors may be unspecified; in this case, those color names >> may be the special values "unspecified-fg" and "unspecified-bg", >> respectively. While these are in some senses legitimate color names >> in Emacs, not all functions that expect color names as arguments may >> handle these values as expected, so it may be necessary to check for >> these special color names before calling such functions with them. > > This kind of vague description is not appropriate for the manual, > which is supposed to _explain_ stuff, not just mention it. So I'd > like for now to settle for the additions to the doc strings. After > all, this issue didn't pop up since these pseudo-colors were > introduced in Emacs 21, so it sounds like it's important only in some > rare cases. It seems like this documentation bug was fixed, so I'm closing it. If this conclusion is incorrect and this is still an issue, please reply to this email (use "Reply to all" in your email client) and we can reopen the bug report. ------------=_1656452341-1937-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 May 2022 05:39:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54110 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ntjk2-0000OZ-Lo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 01:39:30 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:51982) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ntjk0-0000OR-Ud for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 01:39:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50730) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ntjk0-00038N-Mk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 01:39:28 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-x541.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::541]:38669) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ntjjy-0004La-Uz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 May 2022 01:39:28 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-x541.google.com with SMTP id 137so18065064pgb.5 for ; Tue, 24 May 2022 22:39:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=QgpvlX+agNRpZKt1xcx+EdH215VDV5+hg3xiF+kI/Wc=; b=SeTPhJkq0jKb93GOXRPzaghGMOr1qL7N3lknY2MUuOX74vhXKwwYfHUqXggcOLqjCU hY9uucnGeKFnMQ2sZwyPhOKUWROX/DFeD3r3Ijy31rOMyqXGzqk3izJGBXb3oKa+a1WI Ro0xDsQNXzdwzueOSMbSyJEiFycWJy6oXLFQYrwbFyGSwomYRB4hJuJUQZk5iPKwTkJi NTma0UwMBduzh+ZJ/epj+7jCfIZK+tFp/Q3TlpX3ZiELoToFXde0kOvP9i5+o03d0yz+ zHI760iLA8UxSJOEpbqgx4YtGQ9sDgOqQBHe3dE6G0/HZKMvwoqx+93gvBHTtUVzVMl0 9l5g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=QgpvlX+agNRpZKt1xcx+EdH215VDV5+hg3xiF+kI/Wc=; b=7mQh0yajtFY7d4Jtkct4hFD+2lF1QKvH7CLq+povoUBQE5RqKbutd/g0IZkYocEG4Y PBhIJOMw31dJjOlD51jFJDRBerfvW0aFJN29Iuds/V61lEUDlIYZaGrzK6wV65feRwmC 1GQBin9NICm2OnIG4MDbrx9sU2gb7miFtAhz7aA7Xr3DYqMIyrbvvpfYMQ+JL483EK7j 9fj6vfDmtdDfo0YF6lTCHkdSGH8ebhuo2tOOTyskaZ2fvyqCCDbcxASosnWqev87ahiK kkPC2EhTIa86+EVNtDXpceUd0yZ3TzDCYyMFH4eSrfoN3UGExZFg9kxdQ1vezaXaG5e8 c/vg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532990b15CBuiEXvD85W6nn+EAer3YuFzOomRW9yBT+3vUTsjQMa RO3F6px9fgrbVWajjuLicbUl0vBMlllYAQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxSDqWfF/bsMrWULhWAr38XqJjqjpkqBA6Gti8uMx1szsmtK27nFegpshhatzdUhRkFaXl7bA== X-Received: by 2002:a65:6a47:0:b0:3f5:d7a8:44ee with SMTP id o7-20020a656a47000000b003f5d7a844eemr27278642pgu.330.1653457158543; Tue, 24 May 2022 22:39:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([49.205.86.52]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x17-20020a170902821100b0015e8d4eb2a8sm8103910pln.242.2022.05.24.22.39.16 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 24 May 2022 22:39:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Visuwesh To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 29.0.50; Mention that (face-foreground 'default) can return "unspecified-fg" Date: Wed, 25 May 2022 11:09:04 +0530 Message-ID: <87ilpub287.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::541; envelope-from=visuweshm@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x541.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) In a tty frame and when using a theme that does not explicitly set the default face's :foreground/:background [1], (face-attribute 'default :foreg= round) returns "unspecified-fg". This value is surprising when the docstring of `face-attribute' says, To ensure that the return value is always specified and absolute, use a value of =E2=80=98default=E2=80=99 for INHERIT; this will resolve any u= nspecified or relative values by merging with the =E2=80=98default=E2=80=99 face (whi= ch is always completely specified). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I opened the Elisp manual and tried to isearch for "unspecified-fg", but it got me no matches. It would be nice if this return value was documented somewhere. [1] If I use the adwaita theme instead, then `face-foreground' does indeed return a colour. P.S. I'm filing this bug report after this was brought up in https://github.com/alphapapa/ement.el/issues/34#issuecomment-906893756. ------------=_1656452341-1937-1--