From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:40:44 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#55408: Explain the word "interactively" in the Emacs Manual Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 08:17:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 55408 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 55408@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.165251618821340 (code B ref -1); Sat, 14 May 2022 08:17:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 May 2022 08:16:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45698 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1npmwt-0005Y8-UW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2022 04:16:28 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:35108) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1npmwq-0005Xv-62 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2022 04:16:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45962) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1npmwm-0007XG-LR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2022 04:16:23 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f51.google.com ([209.85.216.51]:39589) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1npmwl-00039p-18 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2022 04:16:20 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f51.google.com with SMTP id a15-20020a17090ad80f00b001dc2e23ad84so12799161pjv.4 for ; Sat, 14 May 2022 01:16:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=YtfvRFYIgb28IYgg34+jbizblexbXHasr9+Xj1/BHU0=; b=sgmqhJbxWvEsqqAw9nTzpvfrLfuHRWrFJ04hw1GYqyueFtTCyY2i0XMjJ8QvqHov1D LfBt7Q6qUGvocthKpdngdOD4aZCROsfzdlliG8kANw1fIBElhpuMOgQ6KmiW2JgBPCdP U639dfy0sIwaopu8ZlYdXBeqA0MLakCLNe1SmF7UXcbE3YpfdzQ40O1nPGkFL7+n/OcU ss597zVCh6DWDxTgWeMNWEdfmqC82dd4zda9F6hh302hrkDaRO8JxD4CeXa8uoyu1NSY EGy3JVmPAJdkYa6xVFKr3Ad4iqJUfqyB4fjMpmnpCqnZcse1FzVvvAv5NgD80lxbal2N dJRQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ugGV3+XJNZ4VndYp1I/ZAvDebhvzGiHXciHsYBQtivAQD1IjR YF4CFMSaWgA+oyiUgYWzI/18gaqleJNabfon82+TxR76FcI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx9NrSwlP2NIHuIqxExHg+Rn+Z0jU/Tnn7FsdByWYJyYcgrnCItujlj12X/yOOetHSHFAuv1MPGVIW6J6njM4w= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:ba15:b0:1cb:be7d:bbca with SMTP id s21-20020a17090aba1500b001cbbe7dbbcamr19832630pjr.143.1652516177674; Sat, 14 May 2022 01:16:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 10:16:06 +0200 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.216.51; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-f51.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) Severity: wishlist It would be useful if the word "interactively" was explained in the Emacs manual, and if there was an index entry for it. Otherwise, it might be hard to understand a docstring like this one for a new user: (defun package-update-all (&optional query) "Upgrade all packages. If QUERY, ask the user before updating packages. Interactively, QUERY is always true." Perhaps it should be explained in `(emacs) Commands' and/or in the Glossary? From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:40:44 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#55408: Explain the word "interactively" in the Emacs Manual Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 08:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55408 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 55408@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 55408-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55408.1652518026741 (code B ref 55408); Sat, 14 May 2022 08:48:02 +0000 Received: (at 55408) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 May 2022 08:47:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45723 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1npnQY-0000Bs-GK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2022 04:47:06 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57294) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1npnQW-0000B8-6k for 55408@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2022 04:47:05 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:51966) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1npnQP-0002cY-Nl; Sat, 14 May 2022 04:46:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=7EfspwFmgiMe2tRsE3IUuX9tWRvvOpOaKDP92GCPuUw=; b=TVjT6WJ0hAHVz9mQlRrN 6sZ0nEj6GFmLlpuCr0nEErXZxMlYfJ2uc+MyuOgnZROUyZfYeVlqmR2OWE7swjRogL9eK/bJUDnGZ 4PVUBiTpfcDyRbkRR+ScS9Juzu+mpZb/+owk/OgSVM4wfcjp16z5UJtzKsdcShvEl5ufrgP2+Dq7g M0cuLyV0pcK+MvHmGeN583iFoWPQyUGkk5r0KK050vlD8OpkFp56cuDSqi4pQe/A40l31YlYHkfbo GuR2bHQz2asb6xM44XKeVMuFk3atqwqmXqz6KM3XAlOp1t2LN+0HsqRUlU73mHUlAPnPwpBkNTCxe VUZLOl68FWaE3g==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2433 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1npnQP-0001HZ-3S; Sat, 14 May 2022 04:46:57 -0400 Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 11:46:52 +0300 Message-Id: <83pmkglcw3.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 14 May 2022 10:16:06 +0200) References: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 10:16:06 +0200 > > It would be useful if the word "interactively" was explained in the > Emacs manual, and if there was an index entry for it. Otherwise, it > might be hard to understand a docstring like this one for a new user: > > (defun package-update-all (&optional query) > "Upgrade all packages. > If QUERY, ask the user before updating packages. Interactively, > QUERY is always true." > > Perhaps it should be explained in `(emacs) Commands' and/or in the Glossary? Does it really need to be explained? It's a word used for its literal meaning. The very first line presented in the *Help* buffer says: package-update-all is an interactive compiled Lisp function in ‘package.el’. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:40:44 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#55408: Explain the word "interactively" in the Emacs Manual Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 12:21:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55408 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 55408@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 55408-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55408.16526172602534 (code B ref 55408); Sun, 15 May 2022 12:21:02 +0000 Received: (at 55408) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 May 2022 12:21:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48716 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nqDF5-0000eo-Th for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 May 2022 08:21:00 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f46.google.com ([209.85.216.46]:35501) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nqDF4-0000eb-Mu for 55408@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 May 2022 08:20:58 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f46.google.com with SMTP id nk9-20020a17090b194900b001df2fcdc165so1562248pjb.0 for <55408@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 15 May 2022 05:20:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=w3ambRbErjNkDvsuCeJs2d6JzpLM8/vfu3wx717XcN8=; b=HE9SCItJiLaytWDgTU5rhP0UeYZpNcuOBQYh/oEm4tdAsQ+RM6ibkcDYZxhhP1V+rT Os+5WcosT/svoZF+EJXm6MrbaaFsjo3Q3ZocdbgsnxFp7WGcjIQ5BXawjJhTMWeqGns9 vsHTPoxkR1omMEdET5noNNEEyNQa24gw7GfeIGuO96YqucqFUgaIAp74kMQWnus/zkSD jRTu0MyVy3Q7LRad7pKbbqNkeVZF7U1EturK7/rE/b8ruM8S2exm8Fqdil/ZeIbsdSAH hGGicvuX9A76JEfbkuVZCl7GlUjAv4URbTeBuoLb/Ik1Mv1HbAWBo9ESbacjKFBtijHu 3Ftw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532W4D3el6s/XO6lECTYoKqtffCYFRj1Haq7VDz6d31LpwhX7OBk bxFJBDeBEl8/KLOAiFGdhbd9wWRzZoHMeCBGvHk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxL9bHewZTKqX+bkSIkANOK7ecXRQbiLW2w95IpJjTgOr5KDWU70nuDEO63JvjKcW0sOeukAF3YmlIfX1X1wmk= X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:248:b0:155:e660:b774 with SMTP id j8-20020a170903024800b00155e660b774mr12952263plh.174.1652617252826; Sun, 15 May 2022 05:20:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <83pmkglcw3.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83pmkglcw3.fsf@gnu.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 14:20:41 +0200 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > Does it really need to be explained? It's a word used for its literal > meaning. IMHO, it is not immediately clear what is meant. The docstring of `package-update-all' currently says: "Interactively, QUERY is always true." AFAIU, this is short for "When called interactively," which is more clear but still not as clear as it could be. In general, perhaps docstrings should prefer something like "When used as a command," instead of "When called interactively,". > The very first line presented in the *Help* buffer says: > > package-update-all is an interactive compiled Lisp function in > =E2=80=98package.el=E2=80=99. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^= ^^^^ I think it would probably be more helpful if that line said "a command" instead of "an interactive compiled Lisp function". From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:40:44 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#55408: Explain the word "interactively" in the Emacs Manual Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 13:17:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55408 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: 55408@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 55408-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55408.16526205688376 (code B ref 55408); Sun, 15 May 2022 13:17:01 +0000 Received: (at 55408) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 May 2022 13:16:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48767 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nqE6S-0002B2-72 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 May 2022 09:16:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:32998) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nqE6P-0002AM-7p for 55408@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 May 2022 09:16:07 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47442) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nqE6J-0006iX-RA; Sun, 15 May 2022 09:15:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=OtlUSrYI95dpqv9oPdHlHl5o3l5HyBBK/Z8qL/A+IpE=; b=LV651xesHxN/dxglKBae t2b9HUEWSjl3TLc0pe7UWWkPLeqGlWelBNbb1KZLXMiZts3mwzcM8Nl/csYd/2qcb2HxIHjjtlXbj x+gPsw5QjvO66dUM74npVMzDC3WiUeH7mtbpoQbJ7A55Jqo3HcUelVS7TeY0+AGy6wyBhWrbAHAYv nuORYRGs85X1DbN42+mdMssO4OrJegGsV8Q+m3v5tT1Syt2fEbuzjnfFFWdgyZeSVSmuSmj7f2mRR Ba/mffyr9mKBBQAd/pe37DzDCM8GV/kwd1dXK53G8Tls89Ep4QuPmz1T6TQIUjBL0hrz1uh7jWMUe aoJys7CLgjsT1A==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3534 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nqE6J-0001Gb-4s; Sun, 15 May 2022 09:15:59 -0400 Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 16:15:45 +0300 Message-Id: <83k0anj5ry.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sun, 15 May 2022 14:20:41 +0200) References: <83pmkglcw3.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 14:20:41 +0200 > Cc: 55408@debbugs.gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Does it really need to be explained? It's a word used for its literal > > meaning. > > IMHO, it is not immediately clear what is meant. > > The docstring of `package-update-all' currently says: "Interactively, > QUERY is always true." AFAIU, this is short for "When called > interactively," which is more clear but still not as clear as it could > be. In general, perhaps docstrings should prefer something like "When > used as a command," instead of "When called interactively,". We use this style in many doc strings. I'd consider it a standard Emacs language of describing what happens in interactive invocations, and presume that any Emacs user knows only too well what it means. If we change our style, we'd have to change it in many places, including the manual. > > The very first line presented in the *Help* buffer says: > > > > package-update-all is an interactive compiled Lisp function in > > ‘package.el’. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > I think it would probably be more helpful if that line said "a > command" instead of "an interactive compiled Lisp function". It is both a command and a function. Every command can be also invoked non-interactively. That is what that sentence says, and has been saying since day one. From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:40:44 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#55408: Explain the word "interactively" in the Emacs Manual Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 13:36:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55408 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 55408@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 55408-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55408.165262170910180 (code B ref 55408); Sun, 15 May 2022 13:36:02 +0000 Received: (at 55408) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 May 2022 13:35:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48788 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nqEOq-0002e8-O0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 May 2022 09:35:08 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:59464) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nqEOp-0002dk-K9 for 55408@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 May 2022 09:35:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=kAq7+0Tz9E7QDDTO3e9tji+P3oCXnOjBh/uH6Jx8Wjg=; b=Vg198AP1fRbqsDZfKHGKlfHkqj u1edbYTetSKc+sQA4CQPNp9/MgpLepxSFLKUoso2r81W+LvVt7XJKKrQcKD1P0xG/OwnsXU3NLh5K uCV/U5/yXhJ/hyOfv8p0uxYjJkmPquWj5Yqf0BKZmvXzAj3bQ9q6v46RRXjdM77pRGBU=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nqEOg-0000x2-Lm; Sun, 15 May 2022 15:35:00 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <83pmkglcw3.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 15:34:58 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Sun, 15 May 2022 14:20:41 +0200") Message-ID: <87a6bij4vx.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > The docstring of `package-update-all' currently says: "Interactively, > QUERY is always true." AFAIU, this is short for "When called > interactively," which is more clear but still not as clear as i [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Kangas writes: > The docstring of `package-update-all' currently says: "Interactively, > QUERY is always true." AFAIU, this is short for "When called > interactively," which is more clear but still not as clear as it could > be. Yes, that could be clearer; please go ahead and alter. > In general, perhaps docstrings should prefer something like "When > used as a command," instead of "When called interactively,". I'm not sure that's an improvement. Yes, we do use "command" with a clear meaning in some parts (like in `describe-command'), but I think "called interactively" is probably more immediately understandable to most people who've used Emacs a bit. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:40:44 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Stefan Kangas Subject: bug#55408: closed (Re: bug#55408: Explain the word "interactively" in the Emacs Manual) Message-ID: References: X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 55408 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 55408@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 15:01:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1652626862-28567-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1652626862-28567-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #55408: Explain the word "interactively" in the Emacs Manual which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 55408@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 55408: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D55408 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1652626862-28567-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 55408-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 May 2022 15:00:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50407 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nqFjf-0007Q9-VJ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 May 2022 11:00:44 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f180.google.com ([209.85.210.180]:46602) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nqFje-0007Pw-PG for 55408-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 May 2022 11:00:43 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f180.google.com with SMTP id j6so11831011pfe.13 for <55408-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 15 May 2022 08:00:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3vn4hTEd4+BnVQ0/4qKp/1hMTo9ANhqgpNkbcQnuq0I=; b=SfvdPTLj4A3xSFQ1biQdDPivPjS3VLJJ4aHIU69wslpyJm7tBoESzq6WbUzqFiz4+Y NRiHVgwj9MzxTi6Kie4kl3n16zN0pf9PpJ2GmUfIjztT+C7Tq/izra7SwspKIQg/VGRb EHEXm/m7wTXk/vfk0P5vGOvsdKQscz+/gaGa97aSmOTft4Sh7xAS5PDNVW4KvsixFOX4 1SHFc7DtAWiqeRHOuXW8xdRj6xhoU6Ez+FqJOx3H5SxADo2O3biuOhFgn6sCAWdXSlBW KV7BP88f12RbBbCknTR10JLvAJgtNjrc+fSRifpRe3Rxi/FKVc33c586QWrcp49miVM8 Cv7g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ziuBPl6XXfLQHB2lXCwptUPM8KfQfNvYokqOPRe1qGqD20u4e SgypW59FpfQ++m/9hfOTSK/ffqovK1x4Q9Dk3LkmiMuM X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyt59IulGNIr9h+ZJ1xTKwW7jSE6gacF6MV63SWrALYUz6jNhYO0i3c4fmn6IunPdTKMwnLgzmSA1F3N7gCiB0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:2405:b0:4e1:5008:adcc with SMTP id z5-20020a056a00240500b004e15008adccmr13459362pfh.35.1652626836721; Sun, 15 May 2022 08:00:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <83pmkglcw3.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6bij4vx.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87a6bij4vx.fsf@gnus.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 17:00:25 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#55408: Explain the word "interactively" in the Emacs Manual To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 55408-done Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 55408-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Stefan Kangas writes: > > > The docstring of `package-update-all' currently says: "Interactively, > > QUERY is always true." AFAIU, this is short for "When called > > interactively," which is more clear but still not as clear as it could > > be. > > Yes, that could be clearer; please go ahead and alter. Done. > > In general, perhaps docstrings should prefer something like "When > > used as a command," instead of "When called interactively,". > > I'm not sure that's an improvement. Yes, we do use "command" with a > clear meaning in some parts (like in `describe-command'), but I think > "called interactively" is probably more immediately understandable to > most people who've used Emacs a bit. OK, I guess since neither you or Eli are too enthusiastic, we can just leave this as is. I'm therefore closing this bug. Thanks for considering the proposal. ------------=_1652626862-28567-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 May 2022 08:16:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45698 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1npmwt-0005Y8-UW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2022 04:16:28 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:35108) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1npmwq-0005Xv-62 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2022 04:16:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45962) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1npmwm-0007XG-LR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2022 04:16:23 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f51.google.com ([209.85.216.51]:39589) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1npmwl-00039p-18 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 May 2022 04:16:20 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f51.google.com with SMTP id a15-20020a17090ad80f00b001dc2e23ad84so12799161pjv.4 for ; Sat, 14 May 2022 01:16:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=YtfvRFYIgb28IYgg34+jbizblexbXHasr9+Xj1/BHU0=; b=sgmqhJbxWvEsqqAw9nTzpvfrLfuHRWrFJ04hw1GYqyueFtTCyY2i0XMjJ8QvqHov1D LfBt7Q6qUGvocthKpdngdOD4aZCROsfzdlliG8kANw1fIBElhpuMOgQ6KmiW2JgBPCdP U639dfy0sIwaopu8ZlYdXBeqA0MLakCLNe1SmF7UXcbE3YpfdzQ40O1nPGkFL7+n/OcU ss597zVCh6DWDxTgWeMNWEdfmqC82dd4zda9F6hh302hrkDaRO8JxD4CeXa8uoyu1NSY EGy3JVmPAJdkYa6xVFKr3Ad4iqJUfqyB4fjMpmnpCqnZcse1FzVvvAv5NgD80lxbal2N dJRQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ugGV3+XJNZ4VndYp1I/ZAvDebhvzGiHXciHsYBQtivAQD1IjR YF4CFMSaWgA+oyiUgYWzI/18gaqleJNabfon82+TxR76FcI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx9NrSwlP2NIHuIqxExHg+Rn+Z0jU/Tnn7FsdByWYJyYcgrnCItujlj12X/yOOetHSHFAuv1MPGVIW6J6njM4w= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:ba15:b0:1cb:be7d:bbca with SMTP id s21-20020a17090aba1500b001cbbe7dbbcamr19832630pjr.143.1652516177674; Sat, 14 May 2022 01:16:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 10:16:06 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Explain the word "interactively" in the Emacs Manual To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.216.51; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-f51.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) Severity: wishlist It would be useful if the word "interactively" was explained in the Emacs manual, and if there was an index entry for it. Otherwise, it might be hard to understand a docstring like this one for a new user: (defun package-update-all (&optional query) "Upgrade all packages. If QUERY, ask the user before updating packages. Interactively, QUERY is always true." Perhaps it should be explained in `(emacs) Commands' and/or in the Glossary? ------------=_1652626862-28567-1-- From unknown Sun Jun 22 07:40:44 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#55408: Explain the word "interactively" in the Emacs Manual Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 15:08:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55408 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Kangas , Eli Zaretskii Cc: "55408@debbugs.gnu.org" <55408@debbugs.gnu.org> Received: via spool by 55408-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55408.165262723029131 (code B ref 55408); Sun, 15 May 2022 15:08:01 +0000 Received: (at 55408) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 May 2022 15:07:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50415 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nqFpt-0007Zn-M0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 15 May 2022 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SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by CY4PR10MB1845.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:903:11e::15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5250.15; Sun, 15 May 2022 15:07:00 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::31c9:b8b8:b561:e53b]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::31c9:b8b8:b561:e53b%7]) with mapi id 15.20.5250.018; Sun, 15 May 2022 15:07:00 +0000 From: Drew Adams Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#55408: Explain the word "interactively" in the Emacs Manual Thread-Index: AQHYaFZEsPbu8tLT20KfYnxp/N76560gBlFQ Date: Sun, 15 May 2022 15:07:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83pmkglcw3.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 99db7ee7-273b-435d-5924-08da36848fd6 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CY4PR10MB1845:EE_ 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