From unknown Mon Aug 18 11:10:00 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#54949 <54949@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#54949 <54949@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 13.1.2; Indentation for matrix environments Reply-To: bug#54949 <54949@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2025 18:10:00 +0000 retitle 54949 13.1.2; Indentation for matrix environments reassign 54949 auctex submitter 54949 Robert Morelli severity 54949 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 15 04:38:05 2022 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Apr 2022 08:38:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58090 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nfHSv-00081o-6x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Apr 2022 04:38:05 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:57890) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nfHSu-00081h-FX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Apr 2022 04:38:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49408) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nfHSu-00021X-8a for bug-auctex@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Apr 2022 04:38:04 -0400 Received: from resqmta-c1p-023465.sys.comcast.net ([2001:558:fd00:56::5]:58894) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nfHSr-00031f-QW for bug-auctex@gnu.org; Fri, 15 Apr 2022 04:38:03 -0400 Received: from resomta-c1p-023413.sys.comcast.net ([96.102.18.230]) by resqmta-c1p-023465.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id fHQHn6X7qLLKyfHSjnefn4; Fri, 15 Apr 2022 08:37:53 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcastmailservice.net; s=20211018a; t=1650011873; bh=PtP7QyZ45pjCqJtlMPVFNtvSMBm6PQTErCkNUO7uvM8=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:To:Subject:From: Content-Type; b=WSXn1Wj1qSmwOm+zqZvKD0rsiZ176u4b8QaPkZOWFpaXmceg3ySj9jhekmdZV7ZnI 8hZtah/l4nvzt9VifH8UF8zgBTvk76YJek4ISMwFY3dSwQdrxW+WbUlMZ4vqBwKtll S8HccqJ8R/K8DmFDSzz9MSI8XSG7ArRjFBzEnwbJuqLcKBC/E2At193WCCBjnORmHn 7+2Zcq+rBmcH2nZ2kFNEj/bMBeWzM54JTesnDKDbeL+VOApJ7BtdDK3s67bhmNN6M+ fSiUEbAEZjMYmSdWY4mSl+pxxamdSWs4oKkxdgB++XADahA0awBXWcaMt5UYvR5ACq LcqB8edLBh9kA== Received: from [IPV6:2601:681:5280:4b20:e170:fd3d:49cf:76b3] ([IPv6:2601:681:5280:4b20:e170:fd3d:49cf:76b3]) by resomta-c1p-023413.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id fHS4nmUBfsioqfHSNnkSW7; Fri, 15 Apr 2022 08:37:32 +0000 X-Xfinity-VMeta: sc=0.00;st=legit Message-ID: <07b585e0-6f2e-fc70-a6b0-d92763a9316b@flux.utah.edu> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 02:31:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.7.0 To: bug-auctex@gnu.org Subject: 13.1.2; Indentation for matrix environments Content-Language: en-US From: Robert Morelli Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: neutral client-ip=2001:558:fd00:56::5; envelope-from=morelli@flux.utah.edu; helo=resqmta-c1p-023465.sys.comcast.net X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) The only way I can get the indentation to work with matrix environments like matrix, bmatrix, etc. is to start the line with \begin{matrix}. For instance, putting: Let $E = \begin{bmatrix} 1 & 0\\ 0 & 1 \end{bmatrix}$ be the identity matrix. results in the indentation being offset for the remainder of the file. Emacs : GNU Emacs 28.1 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.7.0, NS appkit-1671.60 Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G95)) of 2022-04-04 Package: 13.1.2 current state: ============== State could not be dumped due to the following error: (void-function ,) You should still send this bug report. -- Robert Morelli Department of Mathematics Salt Lake Community College From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 15 10:50:53 2022 Received: (at 54949) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Apr 2022 14:50:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60043 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nfNHh-0008Vv-8c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Apr 2022 10:50:53 -0400 Received: from smtp1a.inetd.co.jp ([210.129.88.11]:52784) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nfNHf-0008Vj-6o for 54949@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Apr 2022 10:50:52 -0400 Received: from localhost (110-133-205-69.rev.home.ne.jp [110.133.205.69]) by smtp1a.inetd.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 373D62DC; Fri, 15 Apr 2022 23:50:47 +0900 (JST) From: Ikumi Keita To: Robert Morelli Subject: Re: bug#54949: 13.1.2; Indentation for matrix environments In-reply-to: <07b585e0-6f2e-fc70-a6b0-d92763a9316b@flux.utah.edu> References: <07b585e0-6f2e-fc70-a6b0-d92763a9316b@flux.utah.edu> Comments: In-reply-to Robert Morelli message dated "Fri, 15 Apr 2022 02:31:32 -0600." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7.1; GNU Emacs 28.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <29598.1650034245.1@localhost> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 23:50:45 +0900 Message-ID: <29601.1650034245@localhost> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54949 Cc: 54949@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Robert, >>>>> Robert Morelli writes: > The only way I can get the indentation to work with matrix environments > like matrix, bmatrix, etc. is to start the line with \begin{matrix}. For > instance, putting: > Let $E = \begin{bmatrix} > 1 & 0\\ > 0 & 1 > \end{bmatrix}$ be the > identity matrix. > results in the indentation being offset for the remainder of the file. That's an effect of recent AUCTeX update, which indents matrix-like environments by the same rule as tabular-like environments. Please disable that behavior by customizing `LaTeX-indent-environment-list' to remove entries of matrix-like environments. Regards, Ikumi Keita #StandWithUkraine #StopWarInUkraine From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 15 17:18:21 2022 Received: (at 54949) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Apr 2022 21:18:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60404 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nfTKe-0001kV-NX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Apr 2022 17:18:21 -0400 Received: from resqmta-h1p-028591.sys.comcast.net ([96.102.200.9]:56181) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nfTKZ-0001kD-P7 for 54949@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Apr 2022 17:18:19 -0400 Received: from resomta-h1p-027919.sys.comcast.net ([96.102.179.208]) by resqmta-h1p-028591.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id fKQSnHUodK0OzfTKTnToeY; Fri, 15 Apr 2022 21:18:09 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcastmailservice.net; s=20211018a; t=1650057489; bh=u88+31tX2q8MZVqgEPw0TNSzgBq8ikQjCIadBBQr8oo=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:To:From:Subject: Content-Type; b=e+So0V7HYDWyZ29/o98iYGrUrXZRvbU7jiB8pQHyOoFI87dMC002ttyjtF9o/XLAA pEIlzN6IwkLi8XQb6E28uN/yam/8p7fFloGrnk0BJJivamXPT7rxu/MkjyzqWR+aP6 SHmXJET/vDMffCEjmYBnLgnjfg9WoFBKZovcvUJFZ7POGiwSb3qExohc252A2sNZXh iVlUU6qoflprMTK5B2AI1aH3Jg4CaYspTcyFwWScOqkadVGpmjBn9alRg7bXHIhwY+ opy0Z3ppdf5cWDTGsr+S+SKYw4WCnf2GM8h2raL115/stS7LYIUswpiNW+rmrDkYsA LSnkKStNn9v1w== Received: from [IPV6:2601:681:5280:4b20:e170:fd3d:49cf:76b3] ([IPv6:2601:681:5280:4b20:e170:fd3d:49cf:76b3]) by resomta-h1p-027919.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id fTKRnIA3mUGiofTKSnPo1v; Fri, 15 Apr 2022 21:18:09 +0000 X-Xfinity-VMeta: sc=0.00;st=legit Message-ID: <55a3addd-0f76-d1ff-d0d2-0034ff1e8bf7@flux.utah.edu> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2022 15:18:07 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.7.0 Content-Language: en-US To: 54949@debbugs.gnu.org From: Robert Morelli Subject: bug54949 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54949 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) For me, this seems problematic. 1. It is common to use matrix environments in mathematical writing inline, rather than displayed. 2. It is quite unexpected that indentation for an environment persists to the end of the file, even after the environment has ended. This seems to break the expectation that indentation reflects the compositional structure of a document. 3. Asking an end user to modify a variable like LaTeX-indent-environment-list puts an unwanted burden on the user. There are potentially many ways to remove an element from a list. One way is through the customization interface. Like many Emacs users, I avoid the customization interface because I find it awkward to us, and it creates two potentially conflicting sources of modifying Emacs behavior if you also use an init file. 4. If the variable is programmatically changed in the init file, it in turn raises the question of how to do so. There are potentially many ways. Some might be safer than others, or easier. What is being removed is itself a list, and there are a number of such elements. 5. If I modify the variable in my init file, I potentially lose future improvements to AUCTeX's indentation algorithms. To avoid that, I would have to recheck with each update of AUCTeX what new features are in the default. Remember, AUCTeX is one of more than 100 packages I have installed in Emacs. 6. Like most people, I'm very busy. I don't have time to create a mini project out of investigating how to modify a single variable in a single one of the 100+ packages I use in my text editor, which is one of dozens of programs I use on my computer, which is only a part of my life. In the big scheme of things, it would be foolish of me to spend more time on LaTeX-indent-environment-list, so the simplest solution for me is probably to regress AUCTeX, if I can do that easily. -- Robert Morelli Department of Mathematics Salt Lake Community College From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 17 07:11:34 2022 Received: (at 54949) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Apr 2022 11:11:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35082 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ng2oY-0006Nv-Iw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Apr 2022 07:11:34 -0400 Received: from smtp1a.inetd.co.jp ([210.129.88.11]:56510) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ng2oW-0006Nl-IK for 54949@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Apr 2022 07:11:33 -0400 Received: from localhost (110-133-205-69.rev.home.ne.jp [110.133.205.69]) by smtp1a.inetd.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 44F962DA; Sun, 17 Apr 2022 20:11:29 +0900 (JST) To: Robert Morelli Subject: Re: bug#54949: bug54949 In-reply-to: <55a3addd-0f76-d1ff-d0d2-0034ff1e8bf7@flux.utah.edu> References: <07b585e0-6f2e-fc70-a6b0-d92763a9316b@flux.utah.edu> <55a3addd-0f76-d1ff-d0d2-0034ff1e8bf7@flux.utah.edu> Comments: In-reply-to Robert Morelli message dated "Fri, 15 Apr 2022 15:18:07 -0600." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7.1; GNU Emacs 28.1 From: Ikumi Keita MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <34887.1650193888.1@localhost> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2022 20:11:28 +0900 Message-ID: <34888.1650193888@localhost> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54949 Cc: 54949@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Robert, Thanks for your comments, I understand what you expect: "AUCTeX should be smart enough about indentation." :-) However, it is very difficult to find out the "correct" indentation in all cases. Thus AUCTeX actually uses only limited set of heuristics. In particular, it assumes that there are only whitespaces between \begin{xxx} and its beginning of line; this avoids that the amount of computation of indentation goes beyond practical degree of complexity. >>>>> Robert Morelli writes: > 2. It is quite unexpected that indentation for an environment persists > to the end of the file, even after the environment has ended. This > seems to break the expectation that indentation reflects the > compositional structure of a document. Yeah. But it would be rather inefficient to re-calculate the indent every time that an environment ends, which needs to find out the corresponding \begin{xxx} skipping back over all potential inner nested \begin-\end pairs, especially when indenting region with wide span. (...but I began to feel that that idea isn't much bad. Maybe I try to implement such behavior when I have spare time.) > 1. It is common to use matrix environments in mathematical writing > inline, rather than displayed. Well, it isn't the matter of inline v.s. displayed style. LaTeX typesets the following inline math expression without any problems: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Let $E = \begin{bmatrix} 1 & 0\\ 0 & 1 \end{bmatrix} $ be the identity matrix. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hence I expect you won't suffer from the heuristics that \begin{xxx} stands on its own dedicated line as long as you enter environments by C-c C-e in AUCTeX, because C-c C-e always put \begin{xxx} and \end{xxx} on their own dedicated lines (except possible comment prefix). If I understand correctly, this issue is only problematic for users who frequently receive LaTeX documents written by other persons and compose those into one large document, adapting the components accordingly. I suppose you are in such a position, perhaps an editor of proceedings of some math conferences? Actually, reports about similar shortcoming in AUCTeX recurred recently: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=28405#41 https://lists.gnu.org/r/auctex-devel/2022-02/msg00014.html We haven't come up with a satisfactory solution for manuscripts which don't conform to AUCTeX heuristics with respect to indentation. > 3. Asking an end user to modify a variable like > LaTeX-indent-environment-list puts an unwanted burden on the user. > There are potentially many ways to remove an element from a list. One > way is through the customization interface. Like many Emacs users, I > avoid the customization interface because I find it awkward to us, Sorry, what I had in mind was that awkward method. It's really awkward since the default value contains dozens of matrix-like environments. Currently I don't have good idea what to do about that tediousness. :-( > 6. Like most people, I'm very busy. I don't have time to create a mini > project out of investigating how to modify a single variable in a > single one of the 100+ packages I use in my text editor, which is one > of dozens of programs I use on my computer, which is only a part of my > life. In the big scheme of things, it would be foolish of me to spend > more time on LaTeX-indent-environment-list, so the simplest solution > for me is probably to regress AUCTeX, if I can do that easily. > 5. If I modify the variable in my init file, I potentially lose future > improvements to AUCTeX's indentation algorithms. Then you are expecting to have improvements to AUCTeX. The update in `LaTeX-indent-environment-list' is one of such improvements, which aligns "&" sign vertically in suitable environments. So your inconvenience is someone's benefit. It's inevitable to have sometimes such unfortunate conflicts as long as you are expecting to experience improvements to AUCTeX. Regards, Ikumi Keita #StandWithUkraine #StopWarInUkraine From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 18 02:24:45 2022 Received: (at 54949) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Apr 2022 06:24:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37772 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ngKoX-0007ah-4L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Apr 2022 02:24:45 -0400 Received: from resqmta-h1p-028593.sys.comcast.net ([96.102.200.7]:56741) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ngKoV-0007aS-DK for 54949@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Apr 2022 02:24:44 -0400 Received: from resomta-h1p-028516.sys.comcast.net ([96.102.179.207]) by resqmta-h1p-028593.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id gKmnnDaQOKHXIgKoPnBYhm; Mon, 18 Apr 2022 06:24:37 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcastmailservice.net; s=20211018a; t=1650263077; bh=969+hXl2tMRJ5YlLG5uGiC+LLh81bSt3Z2s0sIIMyn4=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:To: From:Subject; b=gYuggDCr+xDPWvj/Z6KgdYO02jmTdc+7W+3mEmDEciyKm/VkSagrS6DNmgZo3A61f 6Vs8XTJ4K88fu+lr+Jk4TlfA8wy6cBZTwu5CLr61XhE6Qj+c9EAJ3w71XSZ/lBDSTO MgMOq/I9IjM6Yxt0i/QcrcdhuAIx0Bu+MOqKlTjd8by9Dc0JqD7o9Nh/1FsRgbyZGb SUo9gAhW7bOj9CoUedOxI6j9QBrjuOALgFEMOY4JE8wun3TgrDACpXDqdz2dNJiRYM NasnI4sYqoMSkttlX1Zdhg7J+Yna1D08VPmihXXiAyaOgvCWPTsVolGbGk6UyzgMno 8/E/QsHithwfg== Received: from [IPV6:2601:681:5280:4b20:7166:fe9b:ed54:4f4f] ([IPv6:2601:681:5280:4b20:7166:fe9b:ed54:4f4f]) by resomta-h1p-028516.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id gKoNn3G17n3NDgKoOn19bN; Mon, 18 Apr 2022 06:24:36 +0000 X-Xfinity-VMeta: sc=0.00;st=legit Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------jUczgBwF3pGSz2YzWv3Y7Njk" Message-ID: Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 00:24:34 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.7.0 Content-Language: en-US To: 54949@debbugs.gnu.org From: Robert Morelli Subject: bug#54949 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54949 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------jUczgBwF3pGSz2YzWv3Y7Njk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you for you prompt replies. For the reasons I've already stated, I've decided my best course at this point is to revert to an earlier version of AUCTeX, (perhaps the last 12.x version?), and otherwise freeze all Emacs packages at their current versions, and revert Emacs to 27.x. Reverting Emacs has been easy, but I don't know how to get back to AUCTeX 12.x. If you can suggest how I can do this, I would be grateful. If I may further comment, I do not agree with backwards incompatible changes in the behavior of Emacs or its packages. It is my opinion that Emacs development from this point forward should transition to legacy mode, with bug fixes and adaptations to OS upgrades, but with no further changes in behavior. New development should be diverted to using cross-editor technologies like language server protocol, and widely used non-proprietary programming languages like Javascript. Those few of us who are still using Emacs are not eager to invest time adapting to new and potentially problematic behaviors, especially since almost all of us are probably already transitioning to other editors. If I may suggest, I would be happy to have the functionality of AUCTeX available in alternative editors. I think this would be welcomed by a much larger group of potential users than Emacs will likely ever again have. -- Robert Morelli Department of Mathematics Salt Lake Community College --------------jUczgBwF3pGSz2YzWv3Y7Njk Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Thank you for you prompt replies.

For the reasons I've already stated, I've decided my best course at this point is to revert to an earlier version of AUCTeX, (perhaps the last 12.x version?), and otherwise freeze all Emacs packages at their current versions, and revert Emacs to 27.x. Reverting Emacs has been easy, but I don't know how to get back to AUCTeX 12.x. If you can suggest how I can do this, I would be grateful.

If I may further comment, I do not agree with backwards incompatible changes in the behavior of Emacs or its packages. It is my opinion that Emacs development from this point forward should transition to legacy mode, with bug fixes and adaptations to OS upgrades, but with no further changes in behavior. New development should be diverted to using cross-editor technologies like language server protocol, and widely used non-proprietary programming languages like Javascript.

Those few of us who are still using Emacs are not eager to invest time adapting to new and potentially problematic behaviors, especially since almost all of us are probably already transitioning to other editors.

If I may suggest, I would be happy to have the functionality of AUCTeX available in alternative editors. I think this would be welcomed by a much larger group of potential users than Emacs will likely ever again have.

-- 
Robert Morelli
Department of Mathematics
Salt Lake Community College
--------------jUczgBwF3pGSz2YzWv3Y7Njk-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Apr 18 08:44:09 2022 Received: (at 54949) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Apr 2022 12:44:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38440 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ngQjh-0005qT-4y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Apr 2022 08:44:09 -0400 Received: from smtp1a.inetd.co.jp ([210.129.88.11]:59954) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ngQjf-0005qH-H8 for 54949@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Apr 2022 08:44:08 -0400 Received: from localhost (110-133-205-69.rev.home.ne.jp [110.133.205.69]) by smtp1a.inetd.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPA id EA4B52E0; Mon, 18 Apr 2022 21:44:04 +0900 (JST) From: Ikumi Keita To: Robert Morelli Subject: Re: bug#54949: In-reply-to: References: <07b585e0-6f2e-fc70-a6b0-d92763a9316b@flux.utah.edu> Comments: In-reply-to Robert Morelli message dated "Mon, 18 Apr 2022 00:24:34 -0600." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7.1; GNU Emacs 28.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <38849.1650285844.1@localhost> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 21:44:04 +0900 Message-ID: <38850.1650285844@localhost> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54949 Cc: 54949@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Robert, >>>>> Robert Morelli writes: > For the reasons I've already stated, I've decided my best course at > this point is to revert to an earlier version of AUCTeX, (perhaps the > last 12.x version?), and otherwise freeze all Emacs packages at their > current versions, and revert Emacs to 27.x. Reverting Emacs has been > easy, but I don't know how to get back to AUCTeX 12.x. If you can > suggest how I can do this, I would be grateful. I suppose the following prescreption would work: 1. Delete the current AUCTeX by M-x package-delete RET auctex-13.1.2 RET 2. Download one of the package files from https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/auctex.html and decompress it to obtain tar file. 3. Restart emacs session and specify the tar file as the argument for M-x package-install-file RET Please let us know if it doesn't. > If I may further comment, I do not agree with backwards incompatible > changes in the behavior of Emacs or its packages. It is my opinion > that Emacs development from this point forward should transition to > legacy mode, with bug fixes and adaptations to OS upgrades, but with > no further changes in behavior. There is another LaTeX mode called YaTeX (Yet Another TeX mode for Emacs) available from MELPA, documents of which are available at https://www.yatex.org/ . I'd recommend to taste it because YaTeX tries very hard to keep backward compatibility; for example, it still works on emacs 19. Regards, Ikumi Keita #StandWithUkraine #StopWarInUkraine From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Apr 19 08:02:25 2022 Received: (at 54949-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Apr 2022 12:02:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41912 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ngmYq-0000kT-MO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Apr 2022 08:02:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52546) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ngmYp-0000fj-Fa for 54949-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Apr 2022 08:02:23 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:36166) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ngmYg-0002J7-Dz; Tue, 19 Apr 2022 08:02:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To: From; bh=qcFIeJwe60MY+ucobmfMQcEgc1M9swSlBN034TELcVM=; b=U7Wwm80pbGuVOkbGyD3s /Jp6JRUKpKOvwkAQJcDO3IZo3oTl0OC7NPNzUNrc5WGxDiA7w4dtci27TgWcgMsr8C0upoZA2SQb2 bAGey/wnQrvLP4doQf/RD4nhCR1N2upMvEVxpCTjWNnstbt5uhSA78IP7VZxgXcJtFDGN+L5CjjLb N7ZG01jMnggBU8GZGAwCQUjAKfynvrm2Cc5WpQnwQpnWkavhjbaZzhgj0Dznfw/b3YkkcsUB76zuz 97oIX7zE594O08n0+9gTYWO4FKJFvabQ4lQ7sCu6HexOaEnbBdG01Y8VE2BDTpbfKQjk6i/or6gm9 n5q/BV4D92dCDg==; Received: from p5b326363.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([91.50.99.99]:49696 helo=MUTANT) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ngmYe-0000wC-MY; Tue, 19 Apr 2022 08:02:14 -0400 From: Arash Esbati To: Robert Morelli Subject: Re: bug#54949: References: <07b585e0-6f2e-fc70-a6b0-d92763a9316b@flux.utah.edu> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2022 14:01:40 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Robert Morelli's message of "Mon, 18 Apr 2022 00:24:34 -0600") Message-ID: <86k0bl8eor.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54949-done Cc: Keita Ikumi , 54949-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Robert Morelli writes: > Reverting Emacs has been easy, but I don't know how to get back to > AUCTeX 12.x. If you can suggest how I can do this, I would be > grateful. The recipe provided in the other response should work, it is also described here[1]. > It is my opinion that Emacs development from this point forward should > transition to legacy mode, with bug fixes and adaptations to OS > upgrades, but with no further changes in behavior. I suggest you take this comment to emacs-devel@gnu.org if you want to discuss it seriously with the Emacs maintainers. > New development should be diverted to using cross-editor technologies > like language server protocol, You can use LSP servers with Emacs through one of these clients: =E2=80=A2 https://github.com/joaotavora/eglot =E2=80=A2 https://github.com/emacs-lsp/lsp-mode > Those few of us who are still using Emacs are not eager to invest time > adapting to new and potentially problematic behaviors, especially > since almost all of us are probably already transitioning to other > editors. > > If I may suggest, I would be happy to have the functionality of AUCTeX > available in alternative editors. I think this would be welcomed by a > much larger group of potential users than Emacs will likely ever again > have. As always, this means that someone(=E2=84=A2) has to do the job. AUCTeX's source code is available, if that someone wants to get an idea how it's done in elisp. I don't see we're discussing a bug, hence I'm closing this report. Please feel free to re-open if a bug discussion will happen. Best, Arash Footnotes: [1] https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ELPA#h5o-10 From unknown Mon Aug 18 11:10:00 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 11:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 14 01:39:29 2023 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Sep 2023 05:39:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36557 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qgf4b-0001fR-H1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 01:39:29 -0400 Received: from smtp1a.inetd.co.jp ([210.129.88.11]:49294) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qgf4Z-0001fI-5Q for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 01:39:28 -0400 Received: from localhost (42-144-34-11.rev.home.ne.jp [42.144.34.11]) by smtp1a.inetd.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 8680360 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 14:39:20 +0900 (JST) From: Ikumi Keita To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: unarchive 54949 X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7.1; Emacs 29.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <54115.1694669959.1@localhost> Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 14:39:19 +0900 Message-ID: <54116.1694669959@localhost> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) unarchive 54949 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 14 01:47:37 2023 Received: (at 54949) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Sep 2023 05:47:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36580 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qgfCT-0004WP-7u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 01:47:37 -0400 Received: from smtp1a.inetd.co.jp ([210.129.88.11]:49332) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qgfCQ-0004W9-9M for 54949@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 01:47:35 -0400 Received: from localhost (42-144-34-11.rev.home.ne.jp [42.144.34.11]) by smtp1a.inetd.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 28E0F5F; Thu, 14 Sep 2023 14:47:26 +0900 (JST) From: Ikumi Keita To: Robert Morelli Subject: Re: bug#54949: 13.1.2; Indentation for matrix environments In-reply-to: <86k0bl8eor.fsf@gnu.org> References: <07b585e0-6f2e-fc70-a6b0-d92763a9316b@flux.utah.edu> <86k0bl8eor.fsf@gnu.org> Comments: In-reply-to Arash Esbati message dated "Tue, 19 Apr 2022 14:01:40 +0200." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7.1; Emacs 29.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <54216.1694670445.1@localhost> Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2023 14:47:25 +0900 Message-ID: <54217.1694670445@localhost> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54949 Cc: 54949@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Robert, I think the latest commit to the AUCTeX git repository addresses this issue. Please give it a try if you are still interested in this topic. Regards, Ikumi Keita #StandWithUkraine #StopWarInUkraine From unknown Mon Aug 18 11:10:00 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 11:24:15 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator