From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 23 09:52:25 2022 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Mar 2022 13:52:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43191 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nX1PU-0006kB-IY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 09:52:25 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:40628) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nX1PT-0006k4-H0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 09:52:24 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53232) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nX1PR-0008Se-1G for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 09:52:21 -0400 Received: from [2607:f8b0:4864:20::1044] (port=54211 helo=mail-pj1-x1044.google.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nX1PO-0008DA-P4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 09:52:20 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-x1044.google.com with SMTP id bx5so1708680pjb.3 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 06:52:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=n316kOqYvdC2enE4xDgTLXpNSwcWLAx5aXIMcpvJuHQ=; b=kqwnAdlVyEjVTa8yhDp/wK2BqsqJeZu8LYsNHRYcvzYta3s1FGI4ayVzWmF/Qo6+8K nsMj/zHRtALX0KPoNwCZQUXrQevxTjS3MqBM0KsRKaj1Knt7IyFoealWLgLYQjd3O7Cq ePooB0GtanNAMWs2qmMsMyXekq/Rt6ITQwVHzUl94vftVYH5f6Z8kEF/9xbnTFEwBX7W GKtzChHdSRht7IENMRHPNlY84bGAiP685W4MhfWPzkfpm0+OAoAGPl7LME0KRuX2YZwA 2nxlFy+Jhqf72EqiG+0NGsQYdcxuqLGLeomiUScBOKoxZ1A31ttG1mgexROF7cZyoQ1V 7iCg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent :mime-version; bh=n316kOqYvdC2enE4xDgTLXpNSwcWLAx5aXIMcpvJuHQ=; b=CQU3/6ciGZCrh/FD42jTIgXO7y9OT6m32gSsacMmDbJ23mVj3+XhEF8lzKPvqMSpep XDOiJGCH/bEz7hpOQJdHIyY1tH5LCPjcfUjGAIcN5UK0kAgFiY3iEkfiiilaCfJyY8WZ C6PN3sZ03S/R3JdMbyaR7B8v48cfx0OcA/KGgvReRI+ADBItmf7U9b1n2sibrK7PkotO W1LF+em4jsH+1n70J4Nr3RJHQUw+PSrihDtdgmFlkgHUKoc6IdG8w2sgTAWPDlzxbGf4 ZaPPdCEgoSAXFA21tjzBK9kiby2Ri7IuIB65ci6J1do2BEehRrrb/mAOE4aehiEUO2dv XTWQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531hFk39nBbpEDdwe1FLcBWcRt6Y9P5+Ese1gr41zK7ItVkbFJGz nuF150SGZ1dfKt0saU457BJfASm8D0I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJykiC9UuTfejwORYP1GQTicWf0DQtC/7vEap5IJ2ozp4Vm7YPEvdj2GvN0tzy1UU+mRdlUZHw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:5b0d:b0:1bc:7e66:2970 with SMTP id o13-20020a17090a5b0d00b001bc7e662970mr11880314pji.12.1648043524408; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 06:52:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([118.185.152.162]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f22-20020a056a0022d600b004f7a0b47b0dsm58460pfj.109.2022.03.23.06.52.03 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 23 Mar 2022 06:52:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Visuwesh To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 29.0.50; Last sexp notion is different for eval-last-sexp and pp-eval-last-sexp Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 19:21:38 +0530 Message-ID: <87tubon5ed.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2607:f8b0:4864:20::1044 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1044; envelope-from=visuweshm@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x1044.google.com X-Spam_score_int: 27 X-Spam_score: 2.7 X-Spam_bar: ++ X-Spam_report: (2.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.659, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS=3.335, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: The notion of "last sexp" is different for eval-last-sexp and pp-eval-last-sexp as seen by the following, ,(list 1 2 3) eval-last-sexp echoes (1 2 3) in the echo area but pp-eval-last-sexp signals an error. I am not sure which one is more correct, but eval-last-sexp behaviour is more convenient (and backward-sexp when [...] Content analysis details: (4.5 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 3.6 RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus SBL-CSS [118.185.152.162 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (visuweshm[at]gmail.com) 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5 RBL: Excellent reputation (+5) [209.51.188.17 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -2.3 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, medium trust [209.51.188.17 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders -0.0 T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE No description available. 1.5 SPOOFED_FREEMAIL No description available. 0.8 SPOOF_GMAIL_MID From Gmail but it doesn't seem to be... X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: The notion of "last sexp" is different for eval-last-sexp and pp-eval-last-sexp as seen by the following, ,(list 1 2 3) eval-last-sexp echoes (1 2 3) in the echo area but pp-eval-last-sexp signals an error. I am not sure which one is more correct, but eval-last-sexp behaviour is more convenient (and backward-sexp when [...] Content analysis details: (1.2 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -2.3 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, medium trust [209.51.188.17 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5 RBL: Excellent reputation (+5) [209.51.188.17 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 3.6 RCVD_IN_SBL_CSS RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus SBL-CSS [118.185.152.162 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (visuweshm[at]gmail.com) 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders -0.0 T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE No description available. -1.0 MAILING_LIST_MULTI Multiple indicators imply a widely-seen list manager The notion of "last sexp" is different for eval-last-sexp and pp-eval-last-sexp as seen by the following, ,(list 1 2 3) eval-last-sexp echoes (1 2 3) in the echo area but pp-eval-last-sexp signals an error. I am not sure which one is more correct, but eval-last-sexp behaviour is more convenient (and backward-sexp when after the closing parenthesis places the point after , too...). In GNU Emacs 29.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, cairo version 1.16.0, Xaw scroll bars) Repository revision: ca3858563c7ba8ee3caa82fbd2b7c386ea60c0d3 Repository branch: master Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12013000 System Description: NixOS 21.11 (Porcupine) Configured using: 'configure --prefix=/nix/store/iqqk7iqfwmfc6r78xg2knyq7hww2mhs4-emacs-git-20220225.0 --disable-build-details --with-modules --with-x-toolkit=lucid --with-xft --with-cairo --with-native-compilation' Configured features: CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LIBOTF LIBSELINUX LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 M17N_FLT MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS X11 XDBE XIM XPM LUCID ZLIB Important settings: value of $EMACSLOADPATH: value of $EMACSNATIVELOADPATH: /nix/store/5gh4w50dhchhcyjm6ysh17h7y4i5vasf-emacs-packages-deps/share/emacs/native-lisp:: value of $LC_MONETARY: ta_IN.UTF-8 value of $LC_NUMERIC: ta_IN.UTF-8 value of $LANG: en_GB.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Lisp Interaction Minor modes in effect: semantic-minor-modes-format: ((:eval (if (or semantic-highlight-edits-mode semantic-show-unmatched-syntax-mode) S))) recentf-mode: t shell-dirtrack-mode: t paredit-mode: t eros-mode: t flymake-mode: t hl-todo-mode: t pdf-occur-global-minor-mode: t minibuffer-depth-indicate-mode: t repeat-mode: t display-time-mode: t display-battery-mode: t straight-use-package-mode: t straight-package-neutering-mode: t tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t eldoc-mode: t show-paren-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tab-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t undelete-frame-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Load-path shadows: /home/viz/.nix-profile/share/emacs/site-lisp/site-start hides 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composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray cl-preloaded nadvice button loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting cairo x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process native-compile emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 1759947 339294) (symbols 48 59226 52) (strings 32 341856 24192) (string-bytes 1 63484760) (vectors 16 139758) (vector-slots 8 3389303 393319) (floats 8 30915 3058) (intervals 56 131235 5086) (buffers 992 107)) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 23 10:06:42 2022 Received: (at 54537) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Mar 2022 14:06:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45390 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nX1dK-0007hW-4p for 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(TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nX1dA-0004RR-4T; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 15:06:34 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Visuwesh Subject: Re: bug#54537: 29.0.50; Last sexp notion is different for eval-last-sexp and pp-eval-last-sexp References: <87tubon5ed.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 15:06:31 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87tubon5ed.fsf@gmail.com> (Visuwesh's message of "Wed, 23 Mar 2022 19:21:38 +0530") Message-ID: <878rt09314.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Visuwesh writes: > The notion of "last sexp" is different for eval-last-sexp and > pp-eval-last-sexp as seen by the following, > > ,(list 1 2 3) > > eval-last-sexp echoes (1 2 3) in the echo area but pp-eval-last-sexp [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP 0.0 TVD_RCVD_IP Message was received from an IP address -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54537 Cc: 54537@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Visuwesh writes: > The notion of "last sexp" is different for eval-last-sexp and > pp-eval-last-sexp as seen by the following, > > ,(list 1 2 3) > > eval-last-sexp echoes (1 2 3) in the echo area but pp-eval-last-sexp > signals an error. I am not sure which one is more correct, but > eval-last-sexp behaviour is more convenient (and backward-sexp when > after the closing parenthesis places the point after , too...). The pp function uses (forward-sexp -1) to determine where the preceding expression begins, which seems natural. (And it skips to before the comma.) The non-pp function uses (elisp--preceding-sexp), which basically does the same, but then explicitly skips past the comma. I think the non-pp function has the most convenient behaviour, so I'd be in favour of changing it to just use (elisp--preceding-sexp). Any opinions? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 23 10:06:53 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Mar 2022 14:06:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45393 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nX1dV-0007hy-C2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 10:06:53 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:46578) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nX1dT-0007hm-SJ for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 10:06:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=htDO15AvBXHZIrz3BNogP3Vn1T4oktbO0742K7x6+x4=; b=noOez6oeCeh8yE/4mqpYj76O75 mNAunBEgE49uaO/OlBXjzCuy9RO2KRP2NrVvkLHqKTXeVXsmTRCE+WTXfdXuhSfQ4oUwb6n7Xceba uL9OVbtG/wUsujgbydfaAVBxVDWYx/+ytfa/8ybmxzSV3u4vDK3PFB2GW5h+fcgDI+yk=; Received: from 109.179.236.69.tmi.telenormobil.no ([109.179.236.69] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nX1dM-0004Rb-Jd for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 15:06:46 +0100 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 15:06:43 +0100 Message-Id: <874k3o930s.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #54537 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 02c9ed29-e576-4eff-ca19-08da0cdb29c2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Mar 2022 14:41:06.3255 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 2R57EDlHS3FlUbBbzOFqkpZkONJH4b+aMgYFMr+wE3w+fxFWMwLN5JVJbcH92CN0pb4ywxQo+1ctXo8OcvcMjg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR10MB1572 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10295 signatures=694973 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=563 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2203230083 X-Proofpoint-GUID: bAFN16eFi6x1fIK__eY-9r78SDAmqiF- X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: bAFN16eFi6x1fIK__eY-9r78SDAmqiF- X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54537 Cc: "54537@debbugs.gnu.org" <54537@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > I think the non-pp function has the most convenient behaviour, so I'd > be in favour of changing it to just use (elisp--preceding-sexp). Any > opinions? Whether it's better ("more convenient") or not, I don't know. But it's a backward-incompatible change. That might be one thing to consider - what users expect will break/change. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 23 12:32:41 2022 Received: (at 54537) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Mar 2022 16:32:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45677 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nX3ub-0005hz-GQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 12:32:41 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f196.google.com ([209.85.210.196]:42753) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nX3uZ-0005hp-SO for 54537@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 12:32:40 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f196.google.com with SMTP id g19so1881873pfc.9 for <54537@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 09:32:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NWXaKm/df99zyhhbPUHnSc05Ai/q3tfQk+L7noXOEfQ=; b=AjNABTeY9XShJqbwoO1z2S/HL9x3RLOY3t4N83qn00cAtGsfdOxIeqqzPSvLmTiYbP F1X6jGAEnSrNJy2QY2fhbvo25EhH0xGMTPvzXXwDQg4Fjd52eX9X5pVFfgwSEcrGQen/ r8clnYrd2DnV4uUBXEJ1CnIBIuZuxHIV39jpJXe8NrVsYzWdBYz+jnkJRcuzSnYmS257 1+ZOwKwF9A8/zTX36AnzEaisY4cF/EofU6JtfRxW0Yi2YSFb+cLWHYHTcJXihnLXQDxw Zyob29eP/0khCzni8N3fHVfVC7ZlV+6HDwQJPXBlcVvY+iy7wTuH50WI670DqVebbp5t Coxg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references :user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NWXaKm/df99zyhhbPUHnSc05Ai/q3tfQk+L7noXOEfQ=; b=4HfnguahesihxyuH+p9zPFF8Dm23EV7Y8/toG8YLrUG7XV0MkzsNwDCZeTTeMjAm9M QLjP8I186XkASCrvKqS8YYCxYFrscBvEkKJeaZEZZUIj/HeKCxxlIqnDr2FgjIgma6Ya rmqZ6Fq2RUZ/BkNB6WVUKOqteKzSF0UAWwXBHJ5XvogyklAEfwV2UV8oSrBJvml7sC/J og4RQAl4GcCicMq2jwdbtZpV6C9bLjcbCihjhCoFZpNsdySY2JfX9A+4zmSNBPYyp6cQ ZV300x7bYxDvwk7mE0E+94JcVyGx/tA7c67OMDgHJkj7Qly82GsvnIb7Yo1z3pLp7vw8 P1Rg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531hbRSZ3UzidHiMgdo77eN7VxY+/rGGXVBU8i4ZX4qbKvGJbsIf bZPUdW6mdhtr2HaA1aGcMxM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw5lgjDh+IHRF+DnMv7RA8UldCK46RUfyxr/MqZy79MBIBcmz/gTe4WaxP/J6dypN39dGIlww== X-Received: by 2002:a63:28c:0:b0:380:9751:8135 with SMTP id 134-20020a63028c000000b0038097518135mr552223pgc.576.1648053154004; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 09:32:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([115.240.90.130]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f66-20020a62db45000000b004fa8a7b8ad3sm421975pfg.77.2022.03.23.09.32.32 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 23 Mar 2022 09:32:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Visuwesh To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#54537: 29.0.50; Last sexp notion is different for eval-last-sexp and pp-eval-last-sexp In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:41:06 +0000") References: <87tubon5ed.fsf@gmail.com> <878rt09314.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 22:02:29 +0530 Message-ID: <87o81wmxya.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54537 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , "54537@debbugs.gnu.org" <54537@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) [=E0=AE=AA=E0=AF=81=E0=AE=A4=E0=AE=A9=E0=AF=8D, =E0=AE=AE=E0=AE=BE=E0=AE=B0= =E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=9A=E0=AF=8D 23 2022] Drew Adams wrote: >> I think the non-pp function has the most convenient behaviour, so I'd >> be in favour of changing it to just use (elisp--preceding-sexp). Any >> opinions? > > Whether it's better ("more convenient") or not, > I don't know. But it's a backward-incompatible > change. That might be one thing to consider - > what users expect will break/change. Sure, but the current (inconsistent) behaviour is surprising. I would be personally okay with such a backwards-incompatible change, but I am biased since I filed the bug report. 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Thu, 24 Mar 2022 01:42:55 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#54537: Re: bug#54537: 29.0.50; Last sexp notion is different for eval-last-sexp and pp-eval-last-sexp References: <87tubon5ed.fsf@gmail.com> <878rt09314.fsf@gnus.org> <87o81wmxya.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 01:42:54 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:06:01 +0000") Message-ID: <87r16skwoh.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:YYViGrDJYN9qMB5Ob3ZIg4rSo6IGqS5JSLmG/wh18aJEycG2Emy e7/kN8v+xpVROEgZmYQnUR8eBN8yRvxjTgndBDqnfr9W9HqFhfj8K7Lr9dBq8X9Z4sE/1J8 r5HSrwM9u5/2a5mVOw6/bAQC/IFs6mhcGWv1eQx3HA/NRy4jybkyqKgo+rrqibAWWoZNXyU dMdEfkLBoJg8JIhQUwn6Q== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:EOumEhEEMdM=:Ynrr7k9a8gL4WVAekWT7sN r1PdC+Oo3X0QALHKc2pKDrfLLC/a7WfbgkguOp1FqteYwhQHNmgOvIPX6RaqZZXQLf6e6rtoL 49mcm9bTJBzfIJ1+WDjQy61EIxMnEkiPn3Kds5DWq64bOWadYCc2xEMJC+zkXqhDg0x2fbMVA O9/iLKKQ5He0QeFJemmppeUSLLZyC5SjXblgTh1kzWyFrwE2ggUtoHxcF+bEgzAW/xwiIQhPD 2Uv3uy2dPk29FjkDMgpt2OpYkAYmHN6EgB9wxaGZSdv368C/Nxcxxjsx6qiL00WBfPEifT8dn Guf9RIJ2Ss61KmLqXZJiUfKxQHun0FHykDOmBS5uh1oq113M1A4hgFMjpolSuKGt+QhTUplRZ achtMQ44qGwhEQISWq4zsV/01d1L2+iENuZTiGjoHGk5ENMEZM7LKV1kPqDBL9kkXnnE5s22V cm7lLP+bPeKjIGuxeNiMIXiCnQT68KW2zcIj0UwqoeS46BX7NMPjdHeC+LQAKWY9YXawQcw75 IskNOrHvKygVstOBqKjkFLMdjLYiMFV7eNb1vej5dDBCSUbtJcjxqhWh8H7V228OSS67bOqtU 7zEUqyXXSjnl42xq4vMFzaSHdjGsaaJNovOHk7BxGKuYJGhLcbxCoiVPylA1Lya6U8VL6+/WD XvnCKDIxqwgkveeciCWEN84j2m9Hm9JczGxtsWmgaGeUdG1QosDu25v+haoBSRIYmUxaz03Az DvqWBOUhTs7fCdjDwrgprzHp6rtTs/Vz1grmg6ECDApULsRRzsWu7FQIPzVOllU2Jb1nSldak NPt4dP1zudR4jpZByjXo9GBNIRTfKOLszRUOK4Vbl8t5zgge3rr6rlXudw9Q47Rc97E3P0IgJ MNZDFtRYW6UPNndT7jLA3fsXTrPdHNkmMEdU0VgOri4WOg7mp9NxcLH7hquHgMIna2HiQAt6Q wDmTCOdhj6jDn6uH84/SLr4rgL+9j/ETPt7nbjtqZj2BMI+UNomGQxT9momClqrJSIY14LKKB 03ZjHziKaUPbkIVtYt2J1SSIdfVCI8pXCJQsxauq8Svg3NxPBUXSrIgUjuJ6SFBuS5ggWA4ij t3e6D0mSy7FEiw= X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54537 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , "54537@debbugs.gnu.org" <54537@debbugs.gnu.org>, Visuwesh X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Drew Adams writes: > > Sure, but the current (inconsistent) behaviour is surprising. > > Is it? The `pp-*' commands have different uses. > > FWIW, I even add separate variables for PP, for > controlling print level and length. Force-using > the same values for the `pp-*' commands doesn't > make sense to me. > > Similarly, I'm not shocked by the difference this > bug report wants to get rid of. I don't necessarily > object to the change. I'm just not convinced that > such consistency is important. Could as well be that it's just only different because nobody cared enough about pp all the time. I would not be shocked if the different behavior is only an accident. Michael. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 70c30d7d-fe4c-4045-3cb0-08da0d39b708 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Mar 2022 01:57:56.0007 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: KZDpfht/nqhPC+iMHVQ5ynJE0wjnt2JGLl4IR21eK338SMTcjHZpbGco7PH/CRCRTHq7boE7+ONHKqh7mttbiQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLAPR10MB5282 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10295 signatures=694973 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=688 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2203240009 X-Proofpoint-GUID: kgrQkUyt8iR2xVKf2UrhlNqgt97PW8dG X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: kgrQkUyt8iR2xVKf2UrhlNqgt97PW8dG X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54537 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , "54537@debbugs.gnu.org" <54537@debbugs.gnu.org>, Visuwesh X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Could as well be that it's just only different because nobody cared > enough about pp all the time. I would not be shocked if the different > behavior is only an accident. Could be. Dunno. Still calls out for a better argument than a vague opinion that such a change adding incompatibility would be "more convenient". That's all. The commands have different uses. Their behavior has long been different in this regard. What's a great argument for making this change? That's the question. As I said: It's a reasonable proposal to examine. And it might be the right thing to do. PP eval is not non-PP eval, and "more convenient" isn't a strong argument when the increment of "more" isn't large. When introducing backward-incompatible behavior maybe other, stronger arguments would help. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 23 22:22:21 2022 Received: (at 54537) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Mar 2022 02:22:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46483 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nXD7E-0004mv-Rd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 22:22:21 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([217.72.192.78]:53457) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nXD7D-0004mQ-4J for 54537@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 22:22:19 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1648088526; bh=d2IdRri3MRFcSmWj+aSh+PTGv16iTQGrg9kcIToE4+w=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=EsCI70CLFvF2dkiHY4oPbHMEW5zIFNTbEFcpqSVFVZ7oYgyp/US8nuHXtOhQlaV6K IwycxjnqlLdHtUX2NGcgT9ygaMk8Zo8einr7emExvGMjWVI4COtpug1eeK324tQxMy LB1XuYhpHiTHn9LPn7bwXfpxwQ/zjzHkOp1CtL7A= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from drachen.dragon ([84.60.174.212]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb106 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N1LsH-1oC1Ic3VdL-012rlt; Thu, 24 Mar 2022 03:22:05 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#54537: Re: bug#54537: 29.0.50; Last sexp notion is different for eval-last-sexp and pp-eval-last-sexp References: <87tubon5ed.fsf@gmail.com> <878rt09314.fsf@gnus.org> <87o81wmxya.fsf@gmail.com> <87r16skwoh.fsf@web.de> Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 03:22:04 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Thu, 24 Mar 2022 01:57:56 +0000") Message-ID: <875yo4ks37.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:aujOuDaskSfRA2eeKWb7hMmF2eHDLpAMhoqp9ULmYqB1JfWeKE6 Q6eAhPj48k8DHRrKYudGdoQIivGvmPq5cFNNnXoWga7jqMRuci561Zyto0Ja75tygRVisI5 mogaDOZlaxA4HecT8cn2zVgb6HmerdKIphU0IZ+aYSv7n+i2PMHxxa7nNocQJnVsyBamTnh dpvg5c/mec1Kv5lCi3kDw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:LbsJ3RHhChA=:C8QQyd0pO/b/K2vuTZaJbg O7+vv67yzPYg4L+j1hCl3JI8vjG806P3No8UGENmr1Wvm4gJ2cuJT027juiQEFXQyUCYrnaYN F5mrfjAdzYWKOkkeAyjAURm7Jsd6yiNXjNbheuUfee5Bdnx2WiQokqZBmU3Ny40VUAXD+72Wt 9TRemAHKwKI1VvEi3jc1J+CI+DOlAwSbZ6jlKZvjfNmFg/6sY+gq+Vygct4G0mxoLemxsYt+5 sIrqb9wFAaC4uGizZq3nBpoxWHYi7jE3dkbgkafYSBbvkqEAzg9p1mpngouhNdWR2RwoCkwWI YjssMTcGFZO9XmIOnxctWObwJSRpYbPklOJf0bWAPTiwZwBXA5igho6wKMMv3RiM5iJaRvv+u 3QcE+s8n8u1awIZtBDql5xhWEJNgvNh7py5AoccdgJIp2X2P/ZDkFu6AVEnd75C9tQ+PQDbhD lIGkWB7KJORDY/eDHMTl9Ahnznxc9epadtNBiCCJ26Daqurbz8jrbtoOiv+he+geezNR18Xt2 MU/lI8MxvC/dkTOlmds0Bp3E5aEeEYRLlek/08Ae5+eMI2KHZQHxsVOmTE/F8bDvnp2qxpBVa 0rH1nEAMLQ+AKRt9s1ClUvDjtBNRjCjc8Q3cXbQGhJPxTvNgCw6yESLwYIMrjqa8sVZdmVhgF 9g9EId1EYCPhFropJq0P25X4pjcEOi4QDXcKItQK5uVYVs3MgMDNwrJbzRmyey0Kga6LBX5Z9 GPhehLL86AI0qj1ppz/6u2HjycGplKCLDkP0k1VDCUju49n/w4C7/AHk//+Ml9dT/l3Dkl0Em KQktTVf7xdZbRMKJdwSlUG7nSVAGJvo8yJgmMd6WeSUTj0hxO4q2muM58Qyb6zngqZc+p3rEb +tNGLx1vqcZLhVixhHFzAill0TCTnO7eFB7cl7NFufm1t4dHJiLgIg6hO95vWLEtGFztksOsX Si1EhDPZZdxRwtZFKDTlqVxQ6UXbM0bo2POISrNdAvpaBcoyoHEtlte/coJt0t4NPjBMpU7w3 nijCprOwyrnUMWD0QzQVr04oGFhAWkR6t37Y+rv76VSjnAK4lLDFeT+I6WyQ4sJZPIZbLZLtw +aSkSLU3WaH/oM= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54537 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , "54537@debbugs.gnu.org" <54537@debbugs.gnu.org>, Visuwesh X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Drew Adams writes: > Still calls out for a better argument than a vague > opinion that such a change adding incompatibility > would be "more convenient". That's all. Ok - let's become concrete now. About what kinds of use cases are we a talking about? Use cases like this: #+begin_src emacs-lisp `(,(+ 2 3) ,(+ 4 5)) #+end_src The non-pp behavior is useful (you are able to eval the inserted subexpressions). The pp behavior is not useful (error). This behaves identically in both versions: #+begin_src emacs-lisp ',(+ 4 5) #+end_src (you get the expected `,(+ 4 5)`.) So we only talk about plain naked `unquote` expressions. Do you see any concrete advantages of the pp-version behavior? Or some concrete hints that the pp version must be like this for more consistency in the pp package? OTOH, a concrete problem I see is that people avoid pp due to such things. As far as I recall the history of the pp package, I don't expect much logic behind the behavior. Maybe it really just...sucks? Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 23 22:23:52 2022 Received: (at 54537) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Mar 2022 02:23:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46488 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nXD8i-0004pp-5Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 22:23:52 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f195.google.com ([209.85.214.195]:40804) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nXD8g-0004pY-CJ for 54537@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 22:23:51 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f195.google.com with SMTP id x2so3341409plm.7 for <54537@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 19:23:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Kg4uebkvf8+OujyF1aa1k7CqUDca+SvKffClt66iTSo=; b=ArxTPII1/MC29tLpIWR6gsxfZiJoCQ/Kfc+Se5XyJ7I78s3xNfW/cXAosF65zyKSba tUAQvYWi326krT2Tdl0sKNaa7Mo5alFutryALi1cduGZclKDCaQigxgp0S52sxAQ5qdf 0BBvIxsltcQFPVZnepDoa8Fmb+m0A9z2GMrkgLRAuBM4f3gimTCh364Cd61NIGn4T23m QdwBL7NVehBEwDh+67+rL5XQSoWE8NfqmXxpKf3Alibj+5lJNpISVo1jYTv0gcxP7fWe TjjAf7PYcbDdj2fcnXpbkJipHFdaEA/9ElCJ2adY2htvrms6gdpVQNhYQCwkHVNJA2dD EyiA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Kg4uebkvf8+OujyF1aa1k7CqUDca+SvKffClt66iTSo=; b=iSbBmv1Twh3S+WBdlLOzS/TaVgllsPuq8QCCPCv9EkovNLkbmYzzNg1t/8caCIGx7v rg+Aotlos8AXfMj5i9leEGTmgSce4f2QKqo6I7Y0SoAsqRiIpQYX7qB51lVz44z7Ltd3 KBN5oxyNzD+r/y7HbJfhK3yaP8sKBNvf8YzaUnXnrVWAelewn1rd1/hKmXpQ47M8TDpM 1XxlXXK3/RY/JefCxncZ92fJnPgvI2SuGnMWRM9lTUXtoZQz3js0k62e97dMrAXSdkWr rHE+0nI9e+2EkCBNyWHYdydg2+Jxnr1XZa8rC6nz0sCYIT9uZCpx08U86/iEXh2WgHy2 x0fg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5330RdDTJF+wlowCTd6Jq9ZmUJmxsXL+74hyE/MzjOr2o7rYJmF+ vhPkJmwYYq08xFlSMkBvJzQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwoWDplL0Y+deaR0rvnf8monc8h6j3zYYrARwbMTxt8pNwRR1AaWaNkMifmrfBXWaZ/H4k4hw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b614:b0:151:f034:4058 with SMTP id b20-20020a170902b61400b00151f0344058mr3330044pls.84.1648088624283; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 19:23:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([115.240.90.130]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v8-20020a056a00148800b004fa9bd7ddc9sm1144030pfu.113.2022.03.23.19.23.43 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 23 Mar 2022 19:23:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Visuwesh To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#54537: Re: bug#54537: 29.0.50; Last sexp notion is different for eval-last-sexp and pp-eval-last-sexp References: <87tubon5ed.fsf@gmail.com> <878rt09314.fsf@gnus.org> <87o81wmxya.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 07:53:25 +0530 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:06:01 +0000") Message-ID: <87k0ckm6le.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54537 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , "54537@debbugs.gnu.org" <54537@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) [=E0=AE=AA=E0=AF=81=E0=AE=A4=E0=AE=A9=E0=AF=8D, =E0=AE=AE=E0=AE=BE=E0=AE=B0= =E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=9A=E0=AF=8D 23 2022] Drew Adams wrote: >> > Whether it's better ("more convenient") or not, >> > I don't know. But it's a backward-incompatible >> > change. That might be one thing to consider - >> > what users expect will break/change. >>=20 >> Sure, but the current (inconsistent) behaviour is surprising. > > Is it? The `pp-*' commands have different uses. > They do, and I don't object to that. But when I see pp-eval-last-sexp, I think it would do the same thing as eval-last-sexp but pretty prints the result in a separate buffer instead. In this regard, which I think is a reasonable interpretation, pp-eval-last-sexp is not inconsistent and hence behaves in an unexpected manner. > FWIW, I even add separate variables for PP, for > controlling print level and length. Force-using > the same values for the `pp-*' commands doesn't > make sense to me. > > Similarly, I'm not shocked by the difference this > bug report wants to get rid of. I don't necessarily > object to the change. I'm just not convinced that > such consistency is important. > I would agree with you if this change removed an ability to do a certain thing in the name of consistency but here, it merely changes the behaviour to something more convenient. I see no point in bikeshedding further however, so I will stop here. The final decision will be up to the maintainers. > What matters most wrt consistency is _local_ > consistency - being consistent within a given > context/scope/set of rules. PP is a different > world (context). > > (That's not an argument why PP's last-sexp should > be different. It's an argument that just a "more > convenient" argument that it should be the same > isn't a strong one.) > >> I would be personally okay with such a >> backwards-incompatible change, but I am >> biased since I filed the bug report. > > It's a reasonable proposal to examine. And it > might be the right thing to do. > > My contribution is just to point out that PP eval > is not non-PP eval, and "more convenient" isn't a > strong argument when the increment of "more" isn't > large. And when introducing backward-incompatible > behavior maybe other, stronger arguments would help. > > Maybe bring this up on emacs-devel, to see if more > and better arguments for and against the change > are available? (Not a requirement, of course.) 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: eae2b72b-53eb-4a91-b3f4-08da0d48944c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Mar 2022 03:44:20.2123 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: NMkivMH6EfzEMWcSH7HGQwmFFZesbT1zcBy3npIucZm6rOyNQyYMq46N2VUNXMaGtulmJALhulejDKR5BkBfKg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SJ0PR10MB5786 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10295 signatures=694973 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=704 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2203240018 X-Proofpoint-GUID: m8Z7bF4SNZQdKG9ZSBK_xFyt46FMJol8 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: m8Z7bF4SNZQdKG9ZSBK_xFyt46FMJol8 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54537 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , "54537@debbugs.gnu.org" <54537@debbugs.gnu.org>, Visuwesh X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > `(,(+ 2 3) > ,(+ 4 5)) >=20 > The non-pp behavior is useful (you are able to eval the inserted > subexpressions). The pp behavior is not useful (error). OK, I'm convinced. I didn't (and I don't) see a good reason for the `pp-*' behavior is that regard. Just wanted people to take a look. What's needed is a fixed version of `pp-last-sexp'. It's not about `pp-eval-last-sexp'. pp-last-sexp' has several differences from `elisp--preceding-sexp'. Should some of those differences be kept? Dunno. E.g., it uses `read', and it ignores leading comments. Regardless of what changes are made to `pp-last-sexp', I think those changes should allow the functions that call `pp-last-sexp' to remain unchanged; IOW, fix `pp-last-sexp', but don't change how it's used/called. E.g., `pp-eval-last-sexp' should remain with this code: (defun pp-eval-last-sexp (arg) "..." (interactive "P") (if arg (insert (pp-to-string (eval (pp-last-sexp) lexical-binding))) (pp-eval-expression (pp-last-sexp)))) Similarly `pp-macroexpand-last-sexp'. There's no doubt other code out there (I have some) that makes use of `pp-last-sexp'. Let's please have just a simple fix of `pp-last-sexp'. And besides allowing no changes in calling, preferably no other behavior would be changed than to fix this bug. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 25 11:44:25 2022 Received: (at 54537) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2022 15:44:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52237 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nXm6y-0001TK-Qy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 11:44:25 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:42842) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nXm6x-0001T3-FH for 54537@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 11:44:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=3sGFY+HUv4I5ecVSTyFWmZ6xzLvKD449K971LaOnYLo=; b=iz17w6eIT2HyEiccJ/4o0Mwo8/ KoMEY5Ty+72E0lpkLuTvEiIY8VAb5KRQ3c0FdLAMagk/imL+Y0zo1czJkDj+7Jn9PeeJR/IBzkWLG IOYuZt27pElgw24Xf/TrzGnwRTM0W/7B7yN08jan7/oSEcHEBpvb1qgiVwQwuYDY0oVQ=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nXm6o-0004Ul-O5; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 16:44:17 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Visuwesh Subject: Re: bug#54537: 29.0.50; Last sexp notion is different for eval-last-sexp and pp-eval-last-sexp References: <87tubon5ed.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 16:44:12 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87tubon5ed.fsf@gmail.com> (Visuwesh's message of "Wed, 23 Mar 2022 19:21:38 +0530") Message-ID: <87r16qdokz.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Visuwesh writes: > The notion of "last sexp" is different for eval-last-sexp and > pp-eval-last-sexp as seen by the following, > > ,(list 1 2 3) > > eval-last-sexp echoes (1 2 3) in the echo area but pp-eval-last-sexp [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54537 Cc: 54537@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Visuwesh writes: > The notion of "last sexp" is different for eval-last-sexp and > pp-eval-last-sexp as seen by the following, > > ,(list 1 2 3) > > eval-last-sexp echoes (1 2 3) in the echo area but pp-eval-last-sexp > signals an error. I am not sure which one is more correct, but > eval-last-sexp behaviour is more convenient (and backward-sexp when > after the closing parenthesis places the point after , too...). I've now fixed this in Emacs 29. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 25 11:44:28 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2022 15:44:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52240 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nXm72-0001Tb-1C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 11:44:28 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:42856) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nXm70-0001TB-TC for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 11:44:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=EUqZ/PE3Ba81jxcL9fDbA+FqLfLV6GEltaazpOiMdvg=; b=Se4q9lWHLn5zIrcVvQ3VLtFE5l cJ5/F48Vp2edVZLmcPJ0SVcC7/PKb6snoAJS40cpIyETWG4dUHOH8j92cvi75KxPOTewZHRSZhShx oYHeANXXSKoXK9kKbHKNZb3bJmCbpEtwUZHQuUdkjza1tZCLtESkYB32UiOaFRDySiBY=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nXm6t-0004Uw-LM for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 16:44:21 +0100 Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 16:44:19 +0100 Message-Id: <87pmmadoks.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #54537 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: close 54537 29.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) close 54537 29.1 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 25 11:56:31 2022 Received: (at 54537) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Mar 2022 15:56:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52247 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nXmIh-0003xq-2T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 11:56:31 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f194.google.com ([209.85.214.194]:38601) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nXmIR-0003xP-0R for 54537@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 11:56:30 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f194.google.com with SMTP id n18so8464280plg.5 for <54537@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 08:56:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xO2fJo6kmb3fmdvfbeT+5rLz6Yk8yxFIbfE3DqDLCAg=; b=OEeW+EbB3PM4B/qVGaQzuf4cH0ufmML9LjZZ57K7TMbagjmQ5yRVCDv56Xv8/4QF7y DAZs/D9SgJC3TS3a35lwdoTdlUOiqnlVfL09YL3YOol98JwiqL0i7x9yjatmBVW9R0xN sXp4dP+5fXl/V252FwNJCgDKGadokavHmlEHdBHyDHWVtG7YthzcUnv/V+Na6rIw6j3O u1s2P7wGQCv351q+tUROBgkHsOwZ2sDSiK2eHu7A7or/28tHVDe1Wx078aRkVWI9tSmv xpLuN56/yzvwbtHlstgaXEXncYqgdJZk0DIrjacygoCKFhVz2N0NVvHSBSgoTmVwLuly 3xTA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xO2fJo6kmb3fmdvfbeT+5rLz6Yk8yxFIbfE3DqDLCAg=; b=ZZVBs/se9fx0uWsJ1fYoHhWn/Lxdq7NZw+yEs8PLhl0WESyEth4fzOG3E6AUlZuA1+ tE9DTrgg2XANJSj8UTb6XQAThEBIIhiN6LS38yFvPedOPW+zF1fQObq2WTPQOQogf/Wl jF+l01gIGxo+0qY5uBIQEUDZkItCpwhsiNES+A1ZTUXTY8MbN1PJtDYz9wl4dovMXhH0 INZi6Drx+zHrPZen0gDSjzzcH/c98coUpgOzdnhX2PFWXvShfy/X1xnvwJpIgwQ8Ke9C Mb6v2urBibw/IF6OXa+KQIRXxZ9OsrAooaRpJCpL1QROpM1jgpYoWZBGw7/DsH8pkT4J ArFw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532m8jOgJ6gIVt1PMtf17EBc42xKfcY9KQRSmI0JkZY4MdpB+/6/ gCnmBJ6GhgH2NP2hit+SjpE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzJh5JEQEwLYdpgaxd97F3NqG8sjmoLF1UCMhAl291i+Y0p3Z/KHF3rS7PWxztvm0DO4Cnejw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:124a:b0:154:c860:6d52 with SMTP id u10-20020a170903124a00b00154c8606d52mr9949336plh.159.1648223768905; Fri, 25 Mar 2022 08:56:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([115.240.90.130]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id rj13-20020a17090b3e8d00b001c77bc09541sm10342570pjb.51.2022.03.25.08.56.08 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 25 Mar 2022 08:56:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Visuwesh To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#54537: 29.0.50; Last sexp notion is different for eval-last-sexp and pp-eval-last-sexp References: <87tubon5ed.fsf@gmail.com> <87r16qdokz.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2022 21:25:52 +0530 In-Reply-To: <87r16qdokz.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Fri, 25 Mar 2022 16:44:12 +0100") Message-ID: <874k3mm3g7.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54537 Cc: 54537@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) [=E0=AE=B5=E0=AF=86=E0=AE=B3=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B3=E0=AE=BF, =E0=AE=AE=E0=AE=BE= =E0=AE=B0=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=9A=E0=AF=8D 25, 2022] Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Visuwesh writes: > >> The notion of "last sexp" is different for eval-last-sexp and >> pp-eval-last-sexp as seen by the following, >> >> ,(list 1 2 3) >> >> eval-last-sexp echoes (1 2 3) in the echo area but pp-eval-last-sexp >> signals an error. I am not sure which one is more correct, but >> eval-last-sexp behaviour is more convenient (and backward-sexp when >> after the closing parenthesis places the point after , too...). > > I've now fixed this in Emacs 29. Great, thanks! From unknown Sat Jun 14 14:27:04 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 11:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator