From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:12:48 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#54175 <54175@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#54175 <54175@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 27.2; Info-follow-reference completions in reverse order Reply-To: bug#54175 <54175@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 14:12:48 +0000 retitle 54175 27.2; Info-follow-reference completions in reverse order reassign 54175 emacs submitter 54175 Howard Melman severity 54175 minor thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 26 19:17:28 2022 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2022 00:17:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56459 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nO7Fg-0000DK-F9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2022 19:17:28 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:34752) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nO7Fe-0000DC-95 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2022 19:17:27 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42358) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nO7Fe-0004rC-3p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2022 19:17:26 -0500 Received: from [2607:f8b0:4864:20::82f] (port=39853 helo=mail-qt1-x82f.google.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nO7Fc-0005Qi-FF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2022 19:17:25 -0500 Received: by mail-qt1-x82f.google.com with SMTP id b23so5959482qtt.6 for ; Sat, 26 Feb 2022 16:17:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:message-id:date :to; bh=aKPl/CGcBMutezD3Svl0y7jWWDAWxk5EWgK57trzOKM=; b=Pl6iozaxuEKV5qCYKAEIjlqfVWwEtViV27GVghY7wrkBx1kJUfQL4nkHNvZjHXyyzn XpLCR2HqF1XM0okKlIrp6CuX0bXP0X4Syscyie1VZjR+hs97iRbe8d9+QOt+fRXNnm4t ntQ5AuN6E8Y23kQXO9/xjF61z0GQJO2+YrdJq4ABMsjJxa3dKIAzeG2pi9pVmTzGAsmd kn06Mbcb6XDFpvQxarXrJBzAHiN1kJdIGtf+m/75xAbtuSnggMVP/yq3wcvIWrSPGlqR 4oU8d2lVgb+prSbuH64W8OwPPu1HGkugoVFknmH9lLVfsXF+TeDMRXfskOqfDD24YxYs lUkA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:message-id:date:to; bh=aKPl/CGcBMutezD3Svl0y7jWWDAWxk5EWgK57trzOKM=; b=u6oKv5Jp6kZ86BJnTtVwynkeODPGn/ZM+g0LEAP+nlNUfuo7Cyl0urvyo0zHHrtDSE VEWqrrEhdzl+FQMNdHJ2/SzQ5SzYfeK0yx9Vbtt2lq18wbPu7YkF8kq48f10WijgXhTo YE54UW9GIuyVuY3ylPIcQ8tGzHdGAN71J0xEdLRUQkmwvlQU1OnegOrTwgDZ7iVElzEx 4Ydg51WPclBMXWwTZXVv8Q/YPvh/p+686N72mUC04JQkBKaJ7tdw8el6z/cpK7YClPEu t6RyW26i9NFEz1iO0VNrXOw50gR5g6DAreASl7Dibn5esXEzD3U7D1LlvEV31LEmU3tH uWEA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533flzTZg9fcBR7+0iuoyGY2/U40ycD27oM0NtA64cqyp371PBiF 5gFmhol3iVCZcNiTl+yu7IfMgTw4yRc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyyPK2fSVqhkvisATKIUCna6YqgEWjXsbbwThwpPcIUNXehJz/z7sEBvJgoLF14cPaYc3vU9g== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7d0e:0:b0:2de:b3fb:7325 with SMTP id g14-20020ac87d0e000000b002deb3fb7325mr8029834qtb.518.1645921042506; Sat, 26 Feb 2022 16:17:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (pool-108-26-204-101.bstnma.fios.verizon.net. [108.26.204.101]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a3-20020a05620a124300b00648c9a37984sm3011929qkl.58.2022.02.26.16.17.21 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 26 Feb 2022 16:17:22 -0800 (PST) From: Howard Melman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: 27.2; Info-follow-reference completions in reverse order Message-Id: <7A89A71F-708C-4217-989C-2E9990759E13@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2022 19:17:21 -0500 To: GNU Emacs X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2607:f8b0:4864:20::82f (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::82f; envelope-from=hmelman@gmail.com; helo=mail-qt1-x82f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: 8 X-Spam_score: 0.8 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_FMBLA_NEWDOM=1.498, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.659, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) This is the same issue as in bug#38614 which was about Info-complete-menu-item, but this is about Info-follow-reference. I hope it will also be fixed. Info-follow-reference calls completing-read with a list of candidates found in the node. It scans the node from top to bottom pushing references onto a completions list. The list ends up being in the reverse order of position in the node. For the default completion mechanism this isn't a problem, but with a completion package like fido or ivy which immediately displays the list of candidates, this order isn't particularly useful. My use case is browsing an info manual, going to a new node via n, so my point is near the top of the node. I see I want to follow the first reference and type f and I'm presented with a list of completion candidates. The first candidate is from the bottom of the node, it's not even visible on my screen. If the list was in the order as found in the mode I could just type RET, but now I have to type to complete or beforehand position point at the reference so that it will be used as a default. I suggest adding something like the following in Info-follow-reference just after the while loop that builds completions: (setq completions (nreverse completions)) I saw this on the macport of Emacs 27.2 but the code on master looks to me to be the same. Howard In GNU Emacs 27.2 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin20.6.0, Carbon Version = 164 AppKit 2022.6) of 2021-11-16 built on Mac-1637103180448.local System Description: macOS 11.6.4 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 27 02:17:28 2022 Received: (at 54175) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2022 07:17:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56754 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nODo8-0004mp-2G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 02:17:28 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37490) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nODo6-0004me-LP for 54175@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 02:17:26 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=45648 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nODo1-000597-F9; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 02:17:21 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=q9H/1AS+mIN+K2iEvlN+bTsNlHD3fZpUjKjcdS9yx9s=; b=GNPP2pO6rXF3 ueQ1Iv5P3JuFV0DaUYhUej47lbAjmHn5ECCuaEwBVwpZsQh9wAaSfpIb96K3JWTCh7Jw/yYTVqkLX YAwmTbdM2rmDZ4fsSqsCWTCCp7cjmIUCU89QuE4Xxfgd8pDY51G5FCxgw2DyPpCRkxigrqmBRjD+T iUS8ck43Yh5W012myELSlariDqekmlDZuyc/mHfUEJu3Mrr7xLdH30MuaXph6YdIIS5PnrOOD7qYw /bQeCBQi8Syh6XOPvvoudu5j+ZmYs9b6q8GB87yUqvREqDokZKUiHoYAki4AoHlvIlX23XWFv/uu8 E4BnUfdsAuNBMXyx+lDNTQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4745 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nODo0-0004eJ-Dn; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 02:17:21 -0500 Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:17:07 +0200 Message-Id: <831qzopymk.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Howard Melman In-Reply-To: <7A89A71F-708C-4217-989C-2E9990759E13@gmail.com> (message from Howard Melman on Sat, 26 Feb 2022 19:17:21 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#54175: 27.2; Info-follow-reference completions in reverse order References: <7A89A71F-708C-4217-989C-2E9990759E13@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54175 Cc: 54175@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Howard Melman > Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2022 19:17:21 -0500 > > This is the same issue as in bug#38614 which was about > Info-complete-menu-item, but this is about > Info-follow-reference. I hope it will also be fixed. > > Info-follow-reference calls completing-read with a list of > candidates found in the node. It scans the node from top to > bottom pushing references onto a completions list. The list > ends up being in the reverse order of position in the node. > For the default completion mechanism this isn't a problem, > but with a completion package like fido or ivy which > immediately displays the list of candidates, this order > isn't particularly useful. > > My use case is browsing an info manual, going to a new node > via n, so my point is near the top of the node. I see I > want to follow the first reference and type f and I'm > presented with a list of completion candidates. The first > candidate is from the bottom of the node, it's not even > visible on my screen. If the list was in the order as found > in the mode I could just type RET, but now I have to type to > complete or beforehand position point at the reference so > that it will be used as a default. > > I suggest adding something like the following in > Info-follow-reference just after the while loop that builds > completions: > > (setq completions (nreverse completions)) I must say that I'm uneasy with such changes, which punish every user of Info because some optional completion facility out there would like that. It sounds wrong. Why shouldn't we expect from those optional completion facilities to do this if and when they need? 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[108.26.204.101]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y17-20020a376411000000b006490deb56b2sm3852933qkb.1.2022.02.27.07.43.50 for <54175@debbugs.gnu.org> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 27 Feb 2022 07:43:50 -0800 (PST) From: Howard Melman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#54175: 27.2; Info-follow-reference completions in reverse order Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:43:49 -0500 References: <7A89A71F-708C-4217-989C-2E9990759E13@gmail.com> <831qzopymk.fsf@gnu.org> To: 54175@debbugs.gnu.org In-Reply-To: <831qzopymk.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54175 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Feb 27, 2022, at 2:17 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > I must say that I'm uneasy with such changes, which punish every user > of Info because some optional completion facility out there would like > that. It sounds wrong. Why shouldn't we expect from those optional > completion facilities to do this if and when they need? 1. I understand your "who has the burden" argument but the cost of reversing a list of a handful of items is hardly punishment. And I explained my use case which for a user means fewer keystrokes in a common case (visit the first reference without having to navigate to it or type it's name) which seems far more meaningful than a negligible cost in other cases. 2. It's not unreasonable to expect a completion table to be in a meaningful order when there is one. And there's no way for a completion package to generate this order unless it assumes the candidates of this command are in this reverse order, which isn't part of the contract. 3. Why should other completions facilities, some of which ship with emacs, be punished because the default one decides to not show any candidates without first sorting them after someone hits TAB? Howard From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 27 11:36:24 2022 Received: (at 54175) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2022 16:36:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59102 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nOMX2-00011F-LY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:36:24 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35198) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nOMX1-000112-8T for 54175@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:36:23 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=52360 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOMWw-0001O8-0i; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:36:18 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=0nAX6agIYs2Zad6sPQunxCKFIJeFSZTmkVod2+saF8U=; b=IURlhzaAaBmQ zpf1fH/ND8hgV2sY+MkwscTyT5oB1D2qGnYk8M6hSfA8pHUP1zjeN0CEB1keqCpZEUjcasbUabDFB W+jaocagS+E6GvyUoMuT6pqYu0T4cVjYMLOKzYeUT+LbDTOvp0wmX9XJcET4ACpypHHZnH2Jf0Qo8 EloOLwO3nQbhf4BrGSk4hagqTWGDXoP+0Y94/pvCVxHcFLM0u/ZeqEcGiSzxpSdl6Ml/vYl32o8Y7 0EXldMOeIvZufl6W8/hmQ1UrVKFM1NGtc2+9H7W9I0em4JHZfV5fZWWGqAegZAVP0fLGlgYgyaknO +RK+Mbkk22fzE59N+lp8yg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3551 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOMWu-0001dj-31; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:36:16 -0500 Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:36:04 +0200 Message-Id: <83czj8nu6j.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Howard Melman In-Reply-To: (message from Howard Melman on Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:43:49 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#54175: 27.2; Info-follow-reference completions in reverse order References: <7A89A71F-708C-4217-989C-2E9990759E13@gmail.com> <831qzopymk.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54175 Cc: 54175@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Howard Melman > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:43:49 -0500 > > On Feb 27, 2022, at 2:17 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > I must say that I'm uneasy with such changes, which punish every user > > of Info because some optional completion facility out there would like > > that. It sounds wrong. Why shouldn't we expect from those optional > > completion facilities to do this if and when they need? > > 1. I understand your "who has the burden" argument but the cost of > reversing a list of a handful of items is hardly punishment. It doesn't have to be a handful, though. Large manuals, such as Emacs and ELisp, have some large nodes with many cross-references. For example, see the Glossary node. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 27 11:50:00 2022 Received: (at 54175) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2022 16:50:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59110 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nOMkB-0001M5-Sb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:50:00 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36694) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nOMkA-0001Lr-Jq for 54175@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:49:58 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=52486 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOMk5-0005ek-AD; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:49:53 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=1iEm6QLRrGonFE38SLrvfX9bcpFlSU084a84l5mRuaU=; b=A63k2EQWh4Ru GPaLepvzvQosnrIV5v2ZLxUjPqnB0qTgaw8BZGEUln5oqOC/FDhi4b+fYnkSgI6/V8om54L4vBiVY EnappTLv8RjkG/ykPWV4CkQgXScXhXUbKzMENCV1W4Ei2vzMAfFVOBYUbQFVWI3W8Gj3Y3wG1D+8Q AI3xGePUI+uE8hVsOhZ675MuwICm6XhC7oHMZJZ2C4kJ5PoUDdIksYUg3zS+jgLFtHnIYKLNCOsYC /oAU1cfEZn2uz5hTcbs5T+coQnZE2ev8NJUiV3c9iqkwqWPwbUrH5TEZLOOs2LLhIPHaPN9shRkPx OSnYinQseVPr9yC7R96saw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4384 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOMk4-0000ht-Or; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:49:53 -0500 Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:49:40 +0200 Message-Id: <83bkysntjv.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Howard Melman In-Reply-To: (message from Howard Melman on Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:43:49 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#54175: 27.2; Info-follow-reference completions in reverse order References: <7A89A71F-708C-4217-989C-2E9990759E13@gmail.com> <831qzopymk.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54175 Cc: 54175@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Howard Melman > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:43:49 -0500 > > 2. It's not unreasonable to expect a completion table to be in a meaningful > order when there is one. But what is a meaningful order in this particular case, why is it more meaningful than the current order? 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[108.26.204.101]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f14-20020a05620a12ee00b00508b2c61482sm3903643qkl.25.2022.02.27.08.52.11 for <54175@debbugs.gnu.org> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 27 Feb 2022 08:52:11 -0800 (PST) From: Howard Melman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#54175: 27.2; Info-follow-reference completions in reverse order Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:52:10 -0500 References: <7A89A71F-708C-4217-989C-2E9990759E13@gmail.com> <831qzopymk.fsf@gnu.org> <83czj8nu6j.fsf@gnu.org> To: 54175@debbugs.gnu.org In-Reply-To: <83czj8nu6j.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54175 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > On Feb 27, 2022, at 11:36 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> From: Howard Melman >> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:43:49 -0500 >> >> On Feb 27, 2022, at 2:17 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> >>> I must say that I'm uneasy with such changes, which punish every user >>> of Info because some optional completion facility out there would like >>> that. It sounds wrong. Why shouldn't we expect from those optional >>> completion facilities to do this if and when they need? >> >> 1. I understand your "who has the burden" argument but the cost of >> reversing a list of a handful of items is hardly punishment. > > It doesn't have to be a handful, though. Large manuals, such as > Emacs and ELisp, have some large nodes with many cross-references. > For example, see the Glossary node. I mean if this is the degenerate case... the Emacs 27.2 manual glossary has 182 references: (setq strlist (make-list 182 "Some String")) (benchmark-run 1000 (setq strlist (nreverse strlist))) (0.00032399999999999996 0 0.0) This is not a function that will be typically be called in by code, this is "cost" will essentially always be paid during an interactive command done occasionally while the user is reading. Not doing this for performance reasons seems like a pointless micro-optimization. Howard From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 27 11:59:44 2022 Received: (at 54175) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2022 16:59:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59128 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nOMtc-0001aG-30 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:59:44 -0500 Received: from mail-qv1-f45.google.com ([209.85.219.45]:44022) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nOMta-0001a4-Ah for 54175@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:59:42 -0500 Received: by mail-qv1-f45.google.com with SMTP id c14so5844822qvk.10 for <54175@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 08:59:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=8Lb7/DAwLPAZbW5cVP0FC+qviPx4/xDcp7cErPuuJHs=; b=OmeNkOh6MQwxLoH53eYdcYQYfNFpMcGFX95A8wRmhRAvq9a53qNn4g3nYqHf5ZJsaw +X7duXYlnlIoAD9cE8spCbgs9peY1vTg+TOM0yfukM7LGD8uGLEG38yb8fqCrNWG/PuB LmzSmAil/PKWHoHGZYVLd2qPwAx0BXfPq7uyqxY3wAmCgAst8DHG9xUiyxIAc9jTszbI J5puvUEGgOhRjN4izPl4K8OymVSCSleIz/aJHuiX8TQMWJQxqYbf/AM3V65+Ypn/UpDH LHPQjeorCFDFr1OgTUz+yfQ8d3M0CSswjK+qkWwIYnv0rhPZAgHiuhaMzaiQXKvM0xE9 re2A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=8Lb7/DAwLPAZbW5cVP0FC+qviPx4/xDcp7cErPuuJHs=; b=VHikyRCot3gyfqBf0qr7hcNgGSqtHqNB1U6AWD6tFQ8mQ7FgGV8eRahAPDthu1Y13x H+P8xpSGG3zDkZX6WIBGTWvXl2Wux12p0XOCSXqadwnrTRgOJfWNNEsbdx0YTgJSBTeq XS/DV+bhXP2SjmEi9/JcT4QQlfuKsbXC1SX1oE7A/p2rf1AQ+eEWhcQm34CSQkOvzigq jn/j1PwzmSeQY0hUoLy+7NIgCJrUu2bGEyY2o8CvxOk2p4vyGWgGXyEWImEU85cTZtfU BgxFBph/AUPAgpCf6GEsJo7wGrE56RR85iILpTZXsoNrT7CwZMEBXg74scz0UWRjJNYa xVtQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532HLY1xGbeIh4pLXUvsgI6lOT8PrKoonLMh+Zf+qDuKK+FK5rBr EpjprOkEtZ2A9PAzhWlEalRDulPv/fY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzOILhiGB2UkNI43VcBZ88uKM2J89x8nDUg0ECZgmw4iRKfiJaFwYaCygmdJKRiFYls65knXw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:27c4:b0:432:dbb2:60b8 with SMTP id ge4-20020a05621427c400b00432dbb260b8mr6943820qvb.122.1645981176442; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 08:59:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (pool-108-26-204-101.bstnma.fios.verizon.net. [108.26.204.101]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f19-20020ac859d3000000b002de4d014733sm5337026qtf.13.2022.02.27.08.59.35 for <54175@debbugs.gnu.org> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 27 Feb 2022 08:59:35 -0800 (PST) From: Howard Melman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#54175: 27.2; Info-follow-reference completions in reverse order Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:59:35 -0500 References: <7A89A71F-708C-4217-989C-2E9990759E13@gmail.com> <831qzopymk.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkysntjv.fsf@gnu.org> To: 54175@debbugs.gnu.org In-Reply-To: <83bkysntjv.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: <5EDDF26F-4350-469D-B98C-99D7743E9424@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54175 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Feb 27, 2022, at 11:49 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >=20 >> From: Howard Melman >> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:43:49 -0500 >>=20 >> 2. It's not unreasonable to expect a completion table to be in a = meaningful=20 >> order when there is one. >=20 > But what is a meaningful order in this particular case, why is it > more meaningful than the current order? I believe I explained this. It is the order they are found in the node. = It means=20 the offered candidates appear to me in the order I see them in the node. = I think it was probably more meaningful in the other bug (#38614) as that = affected the order of menu items which are closer together, but this is similar. And as I explained (and you elided), it provides a meaning interactive = experience: > And I explained my use case which for a user means fewer keystrokes > in a common case (visit the first reference without having to navigate > to it or type it's name) which seems far more meaningful than a=20 > negligible cost in other cases. Howard= From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 27 12:09:38 2022 Received: (at 54175) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2022 17:09:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59140 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nON3C-0001py-2q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:09:38 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40800) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nON3A-0001pm-Fa for 54175@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:09:36 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=52812 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nON35-0004y3-9v; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:09:31 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=3Cb8b6I3qaEFazZUPFgZj+gZlPy3s5FBgKO5EFmDW/E=; b=Vmv18MYw2fOj EB43l76eIk7RyfAzDWg2IQTcD6ILXBhLkwPkzYnfqW3RUOITZuh+VJS5h2EhkmuDOqgjefOyOyZur 5zwlBCq90KuvyiSrv8SkRb0TjvIZPVB2ze+7btj+CNfoxUdM7jXGlrqZFgYiKphx8X8WFW2AzWWY3 GLVl5J+raflalQT9IWenHxodqPWEbLuT+rGBOtr0O7wV+9qevtncFiHK23k7bdBYj77H5EPH/5myw GOJteKNflVjf0U6eaH2kOdzibOHr05pHmW+eD2W44QTocwYMviukk4ce9QOKM299Q15KviSFHfm1x 2/OkNct6EEQe28qOdjJPrw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1871 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nON34-0005kE-Jy; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:09:30 -0500 Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:09:18 +0200 Message-Id: <83a6ecnsn5.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Howard Melman In-Reply-To: <5EDDF26F-4350-469D-B98C-99D7743E9424@gmail.com> (message from Howard Melman on Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:59:35 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#54175: 27.2; Info-follow-reference completions in reverse order References: <7A89A71F-708C-4217-989C-2E9990759E13@gmail.com> <831qzopymk.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkysntjv.fsf@gnu.org> <5EDDF26F-4350-469D-B98C-99D7743E9424@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54175 Cc: 54175@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Howard Melman > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:59:35 -0500 > > On Feb 27, 2022, at 11:49 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > >> From: Howard Melman > >> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:43:49 -0500 > >> > >> 2. It's not unreasonable to expect a completion table to be in a meaningful > >> order when there is one. > > > > But what is a meaningful order in this particular case, why is it > > more meaningful than the current order? > > I believe I explained this. It is the order they are found in the node. It means > the offered candidates appear to me in the order I see them in the > node. But if your position is near the end of the buffer, the first cross-reference in the node will also be the one that's the farthest. I'm not sure I understand the utility of such an order. 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[108.26.204.101]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u3-20020a05622a010300b002dd22803f20sm5428931qtw.46.2022.02.27.09.18.49 for <54175@debbugs.gnu.org> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:18:49 -0800 (PST) From: Howard Melman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#54175: 27.2; Info-follow-reference completions in reverse order Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:18:49 -0500 References: <7A89A71F-708C-4217-989C-2E9990759E13@gmail.com> <831qzopymk.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkysntjv.fsf@gnu.org> <5EDDF26F-4350-469D-B98C-99D7743E9424@gmail.com> <83a6ecnsn5.fsf@gnu.org> To: 54175@debbugs.gnu.org In-Reply-To: <83a6ecnsn5.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: <1C706C79-657B-4B02-B028-0D1BEB448A8B@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54175 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > On Feb 27, 2022, at 12:09 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >=20 >> From: Howard Melman >> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:59:35 -0500 >>=20 >> On Feb 27, 2022, at 11:49 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>>=20 >>>> From: Howard Melman >>>> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:43:49 -0500 >>>>=20 >>>> 2. It's not unreasonable to expect a completion table to be in a = meaningful=20 >>>> order when there is one. >>>=20 >>> But what is a meaningful order in this particular case, why is it >>> more meaningful than the current order? >>=20 >> I believe I explained this. It is the order they are found in the = node. It means=20 >> the offered candidates appear to me in the order I see them in the >> node. >=20 > But if your position is near the end of the buffer, the first > cross-reference in the node will also be the one that's the farthest. > I'm not sure I understand the utility of such an order. It doesn't help in all cases. If you're positioned near the end of the = node then you might be positioned near the reference and get it as the = default. But when visiting a node you start at the top, and many nodes fit = entirely on one screen, so it's a more common case that it will help (again for a imperceptible cost). It's certainly a more intuitive order than what is = returned now. Howard= From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 27 12:31:25 2022 Received: (at 54175) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2022 17:31:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59159 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nONOH-0002OY-BD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:31:25 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45238) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nONOG-0002OM-AO for 54175@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:31:24 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=53326 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nONOB-0004oQ-2w; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:31:19 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=6RGyAadYqRegLcnflkd4YEzo1hRjPMCF0kbFsaxF5Jg=; b=WuiuWEDRYHzc inq3sAghinCK05gtHpKjEcim8lroIv6OhFDB3sbl4NLuxrj1Ouj2QVgWKHuKOXo1H/OoyZu2ikGyp ukqT+9xmMjWqfjN+D9oy05NyhAX0sWfi+MBre2sqj4GOkZjcPV71ESA5aB+hLfxdwCRB5mKPbDXPz kiVzBMcEImjMJYYGuu7Gh06qzvJOT+EFTOQIkExxlNu8RneWH4OvbBrbsnHosljrBtXIgT3w6vJRN XgPBGIizPRCLfl0TfivoCAf0aqR9n0SlvMlh9qaS80S8CnzSjk/524ghIHTGc93BiQIeht1sJxHU8 41YjWH5WHl0K9hgdwHslPw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3219 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nONOA-0005kb-Ll; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:31:18 -0500 Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:31:07 +0200 Message-Id: <838rtwnrms.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Howard Melman In-Reply-To: <1C706C79-657B-4B02-B028-0D1BEB448A8B@gmail.com> (message from Howard Melman on Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:18:49 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#54175: 27.2; Info-follow-reference completions in reverse order References: <7A89A71F-708C-4217-989C-2E9990759E13@gmail.com> <831qzopymk.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkysntjv.fsf@gnu.org> <5EDDF26F-4350-469D-B98C-99D7743E9424@gmail.com> <83a6ecnsn5.fsf@gnu.org> <1C706C79-657B-4B02-B028-0D1BEB448A8B@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54175 Cc: 54175@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Howard Melman > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:18:49 -0500 > > >> I believe I explained this. It is the order they are found in the node. It means > >> the offered candidates appear to me in the order I see them in the > >> node. > > > > But if your position is near the end of the buffer, the first > > cross-reference in the node will also be the one that's the farthest. > > I'm not sure I understand the utility of such an order. > > It doesn't help in all cases. If you're positioned near the end of the node > then you might be positioned near the reference and get it as the default. > But when visiting a node you start at the top, and many nodes fit entirely > on one screen, so it's a more common case that it will help (again for a > imperceptible cost). It's certainly a more intuitive order than what is returned > now. I don't think I agree. I could understand if the request was to order them starting from the current position, or to sort them by their distance from the current position, but starting from the node beginning sounds as arbitrary as starting from the end. In any case, instead of sorting or reversing, an alternative could be to collect the cross-reference in the desired order to begin with, to avoid the cost of sorting/reversing. And finally, Info-follow-reference is called by other functions, so we should make sure we don't break them by changing the order. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 27 12:50:47 2022 Received: (at 54175) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Feb 2022 17:50:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59164 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nONh1-0002t7-18 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:50:47 -0500 Received: from mail-qk1-f176.google.com ([209.85.222.176]:43621) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nONgz-0002su-5u for 54175@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:50:45 -0500 Received: by mail-qk1-f176.google.com with SMTP id z66so8729329qke.10 for <54175@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:50:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=xWibXyPGdOkJqQHYemgLE1oEet817O3TLF8rhFL2KLY=; b=A7oaGQbmUVzSizzjWMj6ay2vvxXRCKpm1IVlDrkTWWyFxiBUbQTlkjpcljTBoit+FS ZObhqJta7V8VTJBADzDf/u6l1mshPrwiJ+sxLuTLODxlshMCjxBkk2JK5Wefis22AeIt G2PoKg5PcOKihm08B1++7CgosKcydG6wYbHCJW1YqA314fwbBR6K3ZdpPM/NYTO4bc+O N3RUAvJYxC+nSGx+Ayr1VT0Vxgmy135T6h29Z6wqmLfXgwTsEPQAx+M00rgzVjFeGL9m B6MPtOJD5h9NHOVut11Bxsumi3zz9jE3twZzMcyt2JGSOtsTo8LUC9lguE1moNhiaiJj rqUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=xWibXyPGdOkJqQHYemgLE1oEet817O3TLF8rhFL2KLY=; b=cWEzmn7tLRXND4eRLC+DxrFcWe2y+fY8C115ZAOKfs+CzfShxjtMpVcqcwjKTro0Oq xGIZWjn3ehWCxj7k83ObYlI6AUDgZRolzj6vv4nG7dY43NKDl0Z2SWczZcgbFqsGxKRW eDKDL4MmgvWVzb8VCNeLztjOexQQSjERMIrE4Qfc1gv02UuNYnt4s6cdMLVNHesaa3mf Ewde2GfNYdA5/TtxgPjjDUKuWdEO7dywjySeNS5U67EIy6dgXtHzXPmsgUChA5D95A8D /g0ZL2aeVX+gQqWQuIioy5W8GZeOlJ3EUmLHPdWrwIQBIRFfZKmc9tw9YOyomU1w3nhZ xSoA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533SgDch8BaBfts2AvLQTAoXJbHAm+45Xr4iYLedhtuDgqvVeNc7 5j+8SwWjExwt2Z02bd4bQK1awZnLqvw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzYsRC1H4jpUsiXKPWMNVjnWNH6Ft4/J3euOy8wg/MHhQHM9mszC0LsZoL19kZxhM7tqBySUQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:80f:b0:648:e2e3:532d with SMTP id s15-20020a05620a080f00b00648e2e3532dmr9499612qks.569.1645984239194; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:50:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (pool-108-26-204-101.bstnma.fios.verizon.net. [108.26.204.101]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w8-20020ae9e508000000b0064905055a5esm3964279qkf.92.2022.02.27.09.50.38 for <54175@debbugs.gnu.org> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 27 Feb 2022 09:50:38 -0800 (PST) From: Howard Melman Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#54175: 27.2; Info-follow-reference completions in reverse order Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:50:38 -0500 References: <7A89A71F-708C-4217-989C-2E9990759E13@gmail.com> <831qzopymk.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkysntjv.fsf@gnu.org> <5EDDF26F-4350-469D-B98C-99D7743E9424@gmail.com> <83a6ecnsn5.fsf@gnu.org> <1C706C79-657B-4B02-B028-0D1BEB448A8B@gmail.com> <838rtwnrms.fsf@gnu.org> To: 54175@debbugs.gnu.org In-Reply-To: <838rtwnrms.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54175 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Feb 27, 2022, at 12:31 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >=20 >> From: Howard Melman >> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:18:49 -0500 >>=20 >>>> I believe I explained this. It is the order they are found in the = node. It means=20 >>>> the offered candidates appear to me in the order I see them in the >>>> node. >>>=20 >>> But if your position is near the end of the buffer, the first >>> cross-reference in the node will also be the one that's the = farthest. >>> I'm not sure I understand the utility of such an order. >>=20 >> It doesn't help in all cases. If you're positioned near the end of = the node >> then you might be positioned near the reference and get it as the = default. >> But when visiting a node you start at the top, and many nodes fit = entirely >> on one screen, so it's a more common case that it will help (again = for a >> imperceptible cost). It's certainly a more intuitive order than what = is returned >> now. >=20 > I don't think I agree. I could understand if the request was to order > them starting from the current position, or to sort them by their > distance from the current position, but starting from the node > beginning sounds as arbitrary as starting from the end. >=20 > In any case, instead of sorting or reversing, an alternative could be > to collect the cross-reference in the desired order to begin with, to > avoid the cost of sorting/reversing. I proposed an easy-to-understand one line fix with negligible = performance impact similar to a previously accepted fix; if someone wants to fix it = with a rewrite of the function I don't object. > And finally, Info-follow-reference is called by other functions, so we > should make sure we don't break them by changing the order. Yes, though given my proposed change is in the call to interactive I = believe it shouldn't affect other non-interactive callers of it. There is code in Info-menu-update "stolen from `Info-follow-reference'" = that builds the dynamic submenu of References. That currently shows references, in = the menu in the same reverse order. It would be nice if those were in some = sensible order; either alphabetical or as found in the node seem more reasonable than what's = there now. Howard From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed May 04 10:47:21 2022 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 May 2022 14:47:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43658 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmGHg-000643-Nj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2022 10:47:21 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:60394) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmGHd-00063s-ON for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2022 10:47:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49720) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nmGHd-0004bx-Gt for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2022 10:47:17 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:52872) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nmGHY-0007VF-Mk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2022 10:47:17 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nmGHR-000799-NA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 04 May 2022 16:47:05 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Howard Melman Subject: Re: bug#54175: 27.2; Info-follow-reference completions in reverse order Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 10:46:58 -0400 Message-ID: References: <7A89A71F-708C-4217-989C-2E9990759E13@gmail.com> <831qzopymk.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkysntjv.fsf@gnu.org> <5EDDF26F-4350-469D-B98C-99D7743E9424@gmail.com> <83a6ecnsn5.fsf@gnu.org> <1C706C79-657B-4B02-B028-0D1BEB448A8B@gmail.com> <838rtwnrms.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:k6za+t2+ewFBh9qzz5vb49MNWK8= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 5 X-Spam_score: 0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) To follow up on this from Feb. Here's a summary of what's been discussed. My original report: > This is the same issue as in bug#38614 which was about > Info-complete-menu-item, but this is about > Info-follow-reference. I hope it will also be fixed. > > Info-follow-reference calls completing-read with a list of > candidates found in the node. It scans the node from top to > bottom pushing references onto a completions list. The list > ends up being in the reverse order of position in the node. > For the default completion mechanism this isn't a problem, > but with a completion package like fido or ivy which > immediately displays the list of candidates, this order > isn't particularly useful. > > My use case is browsing an info manual, going to a new node > via n, so my point is near the top of the node. I see I > want to follow the first reference and type f and I'm > presented with a list of completion candidates. The first > candidate is from the bottom of the node, it's not even > visible on my screen. If the list was in the order as found > in the mode I could just type RET, but now I have to type to > complete or beforehand position point at the reference so > that it will be used as a default. > > I suggest adding something like the following in > Info-follow-reference just after the while loop that builds > completions: > > (setq completions (nreverse completions)) > Eli argued that this would put a burden on users who stick with the default completion system. I showed that his example degenerate case had no meaningful performance impact. He also asked why is this order more meaningful. It seems obvious to me that the order the references appear in the text is more meaningful than the reverse of that order. And I showed a common use case of visiting a page and wanting to follow one of the first references without having to move point, particularly if the node fits on one page. Eli proposed some different order could be more useful. I said "I proposed an easy-to-understand one line fix with negligible performance impact similar to a previously accepted fix; if someone wants to fix it with a rewrite of the function I don't object." Additionally, I point out that this change doesn't affect that if point is on a reference the default is still that reference. I also pointed out: > There is code in Info-menu-update "stolen from > `Info-follow-reference'" that builds the dynamic submenu of > References. That currently shows references, in the menu in the > same reverse order. It would be nice if those were in some sensible > order; either alphabetical or as found in the node seem more > reasonable than what's there now. I think the order of a menu is more clearly a bug than of a completion table, but I think both should be fixed. My preference would be that the order in a menu be the order of references found in the text and that Info-follow-reference candidates use the same order. I think alphabetical is also reasonable for this menu and could be different from Info-follow-reference, but I don't see how it's useful for either to be in the reverse order as found in the text. I still think the proposed one line fix (applied in both places) is the easiest and least risky change. -- Howard From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 05 07:30:41 2022 Received: (at 54175) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2022 11:30:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44573 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmZgu-0007lU-Vp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 07:30:41 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:52552) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmZgs-0007ee-Ph for 54175@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 07:30:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=aS7Xwn/Em3Edu+1MMns83nMmjvSUka8jGJr2lyk9pVo=; b=NFnczZHacz+7jTBkc0vHaYCy5a XO0Te20+qc2Fp8vuDJ5avW2Ox90HiOJtwfWpQO5nHNREl0JOpaCtNZqUkRWdhx6V8ku1zVKaBvogK aD9yt4AgLPtzHr8sb7dy8hITyjYDBh2QVQmj7CHREuxUK/hY96TRInUBYkukOf00My60=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nmZgj-00011I-Uj; Thu, 05 May 2022 13:30:32 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Howard Melman Subject: Re: bug#54175: 27.2; Info-follow-reference completions in reverse order References: <7A89A71F-708C-4217-989C-2E9990759E13@gmail.com> <831qzopymk.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkysntjv.fsf@gnu.org> <5EDDF26F-4350-469D-B98C-99D7743E9424@gmail.com> <83a6ecnsn5.fsf@gnu.org> <1C706C79-657B-4B02-B028-0D1BEB448A8B@gmail.com> <838rtwnrms.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: Weather Report's _Heavy Weather_: "Rumba Mama" Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 13:30:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Howard Melman's message of "Wed, 04 May 2022 10:46:58 -0400") Message-ID: <87wnf0rzca.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Howard Melman writes: > I still think the proposed one line fix (applied in both > places) is the easiest and least risky change. Yup. I've now done so in Emacs 29. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54175 Cc: 54175@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Howard Melman writes: > I still think the proposed one line fix (applied in both > places) is the easiest and least risky change. Yup. I've now done so in Emacs 29. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 05 07:30:44 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2022 11:30:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44576 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmZgy-0007ox-6R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 07:30:44 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:52566) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nmZgw-0007iL-Qz for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 07:30:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=pkFQ7cr8o3DssAgh+ov2JFoft1E3M+mWuJst5WyrWWI=; b=ndWQh9agyxyoNs9UGjvN4uspRT PF4t/Pfy+mqan8PutOkEoQgUhChvBhgfj+OJDHAPcx5Cy3I6MSB29wgXc2LDrpCZ4d/rx5kphipLl QHcSrzO6LW4kqYMyNLcLDidnF1AcTRh4/BV0QDWLbLv1qk46pDNdrOlYLVYmQ204bxv0=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nmZgp-00011Q-58 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2022 13:30:37 +0200 Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 13:30:34 +0200 Message-Id: <87v8ukrzc5.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #54175 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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[108.26.204.101]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q21-20020a05620a0c9500b006a0098f029fsm830424qki.13.2022.05.05.07.00.56 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 05 May 2022 07:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Subject: Re: bug#54175: 27.2; Info-follow-reference completions in reverse order From: Howard Melman In-Reply-To: <87wnf0rzca.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 10:00:56 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <7A89A71F-708C-4217-989C-2E9990759E13@gmail.com> <831qzopymk.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkysntjv.fsf@gnu.org> <5EDDF26F-4350-469D-B98C-99D7743E9424@gmail.com> <83a6ecnsn5.fsf@gnu.org> <1C706C79-657B-4B02-B028-0D1BEB448A8B@gmail.com> <838rtwnrms.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnf0rzca.fsf@gnus.org> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54175 Cc: 54175@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On May 5, 2022, at 7:30 AM, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > > Howard Melman writes: > >> I still think the proposed one line fix (applied in both >> places) is the easiest and least risky change. > > Yup. I've now done so in Emacs 29. Thanks. Howard From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:12:48 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2022 11:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator