From unknown Sat Aug 16 20:58:33 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#54112 <54112@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#54112 <54112@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: dd seek_bytes etc. is confusing Reply-To: bug#54112 <54112@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2025 03:58:33 +0000 retitle 54112 dd seek_bytes etc. is confusing reassign 54112 coreutils submitter 54112 Paul Eggert severity 54112 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 22 12:04:00 2022 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Feb 2022 17:04:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42496 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMYZw-0003DN-0F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:04:00 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:53732) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMYZu-0003DE-De for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:03:54 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52806) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nMYZu-00069l-7B for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:03:54 -0500 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:50078) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nMYZr-0004jA-GU for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:03:53 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AFEE160140 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:03:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id fZc2K4GrZiPH for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:03:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED359160143 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:03:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id NAdBMAIC0nl1 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:03:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-172-91-119-151.socal.res.rr.com [172.91.119.151]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CB164160140 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:03:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:03:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.0 Content-Language: en-US To: Coreutils From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Subject: dd seek_bytes etc. is confusing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=131.179.128.68; envelope-from=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; helo=zimbra.cs.ucla.edu X-Spam_score_int: -41 X-Spam_score: -4.2 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) While looking into Bug#45648 I noticed that the GNU extensions count_bytes, seek_bytes, and skip_bytes are confusing, and the proposed fix to bug#45648 would make them even more confusing. To fix this confusion, we should deprecate these options, and instead say that if you want to use byte counts you should use a number string ending in "B". Here's another way to put it. Currently this: dd oseek=100KiB means "seek 102,400 blocks". It should simply mean "seek 102,400 bytes", which is what it says. And if we change oseek's meaning this way, we don't need "oseek_bytes". Although this is an incompatible change to GNU dd, I don't think it'll affect real-world uses (who would use oseek in such a confusing way now?) and overall it will be a win. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 22 12:29:36 2022 Received: (at 54112) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Feb 2022 17:29:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42551 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMYym-0003wB-5r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:29:36 -0500 Received: from mail-wr1-f43.google.com ([209.85.221.43]:45940) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMYyk-0003vx-27 for 54112@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:29:34 -0500 Received: by mail-wr1-f43.google.com with SMTP id p9so34745189wra.12 for <54112@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:29:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=sender:message-id:date:mime-version:user-agent:subject :content-language:to:references:from:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jfU5+LgLfP8xrwg2VA1YsMI0GW2Ih8Y43m/dZkpQYpo=; b=hV6KWvMmzrFcuA8WDx59lIseH0jlgGHIKO+HIOfCT/xVkOiQNMr/1uyRRWqwgNfpEf JMbIbtMjo9uoLtG4q7/B0G+eIjUyiiYdYyVCk36Nso+RBIAFKBJ0/UdWsbQZm0Rp/kLP lziCEJDT6qPXrwG0cTCbUPZx1ZTDKY1Dvu/XsPhXIOnFe1TE7DnpjgS4eomJuWe926c6 1SdrbPYhfVbWqVEipAwJZqA2eBlyMTy3KNa2wWSi8TTMhxh0XFuqeOuIWlPqdFkMRfeg w95ddY7ryDgOaGZCi+R34zGM9AmS1wtARhKJtJuHXbQAeXXdOABY9Nt3BuUVysCPDcKJ Xn4Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:message-id:date:mime-version:user-agent :subject:content-language:to:references:from:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jfU5+LgLfP8xrwg2VA1YsMI0GW2Ih8Y43m/dZkpQYpo=; b=PU3rhkc6B/y28n/Hq+jiZ9HfSTLrQ1v5Y/3Yrt5ulTSH0l3GJUdDbJMdDuIH8vkb1j oO5Hyrgw52udYdOPxHYXvyILvEfgmnCeR0q71wTo599pOxIVEo+1L+1j1xGstjkQtAR+ scPuM93x3y0biI4B+sNHaiVaA6G2TZ27FkPrxp8IMR8MFHRm2IKVnvK/pcNfAosmo3qp dlgZ1g9davXDj6KT/LRvZCHSxw8pBzwWK+j0dWnMqnCUbuyW+U6LiIsfVq8Lg6YihVKq acoIKtIXxXHNedzoPx43LH8nyDpd2F0m0t+sr4m7czE1ouXpmJJo1MO/C6dAkWczX4bs jANQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533TIRj6LGWTSwWrRaX6kQU+YsT7SL27veFxB1MpfNezvRDUwsLq PCKrPPZ0d+0F8d+/RqBTiEU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxZc3XS3cGED6gU6AyRGTg2U+22ECQNTIXQpcQPcvd/IDLT8BUsluZXBEfjtGtKf0eN+X9A3Q== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6292:0:b0:1e7:8afb:73ea with SMTP id k18-20020a5d6292000000b001e78afb73eamr20039568wru.149.1645550968000; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:29:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (95-44-90-175-dynamic.agg2.lod.rsl-rtd.eircom.net. [95.44.90.175]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id r2sm4019250wmq.24.2022.02.22.09.29.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:29:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5c11d221-9212-f4e1-b2c9-3957b8732c80@draigBrady.com> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:29:26 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:97.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/97.0 Subject: Re: bug#54112: dd seek_bytes etc. is confusing Content-Language: en-US To: Paul Eggert , 54112@debbugs.gnu.org References: From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=c3=a1draig_Brady?= In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54112 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) On 22/02/2022 17:03, Paul Eggert wrote: > While looking into Bug#45648 I noticed that the GNU extensions > count_bytes, seek_bytes, and skip_bytes are confusing, and the proposed > fix to bug#45648 would make them even more confusing. To fix this > confusion, we should deprecate these options, and instead say that if > you want to use byte counts you should use a number string ending in "B". > > Here's another way to put it. Currently this: > > dd oseek=100KiB > > means "seek 102,400 blocks". It should simply mean "seek 102,400 bytes", > which is what it says. And if we change oseek's meaning this way, we > don't need "oseek_bytes". > > Although this is an incompatible change to GNU dd, I don't think it'll > affect real-world uses (who would use oseek in such a confusing way > now?) and overall it will be a win. That is a more concise and direct way to achieve the same functionality. +1 I guess we should remove docs for the other options, but leave support there for backwards compat. thanks, Pádraig From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 22 21:58:32 2022 Received: (at 54112-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2022 02:58:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43324 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMhrL-00010N-JP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 21:58:32 -0500 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:35646) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMhrI-000107-5A for 54112-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 21:58:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07A2316014E; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:58:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id IfAbDpBw4R-h; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:58:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23632160152; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:58:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id TNPjQujx247f; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:58:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [131.179.64.200] (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F3BA316014E; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:58:19 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5ppsPtCABf3Uu4vHFvvBUwYp" Message-ID: <3d906d36-5152-f92f-831e-009d024fcb92@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:58:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.0 Subject: Re: bug#54112: dd seek_bytes etc. is confusing Content-Language: en-US To: =?UTF-8?Q?P=c3=a1draig_Brady?= References: <5c11d221-9212-f4e1-b2c9-3957b8732c80@draigBrady.com> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department In-Reply-To: <5c11d221-9212-f4e1-b2c9-3957b8732c80@draigBrady.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54112-done Cc: 54112-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5ppsPtCABf3Uu4vHFvvBUwYp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/22/22 09:29, P=C3=A1draig Brady wrote: > That is a more concise and direct way to achieve the same functionality= . > +1 >=20 > I guess we should remove docs for the other options, > but leave support there for backwards compat. Sounds good, I installed the attached and am closing the bug report. --------------5ppsPtCABf3Uu4vHFvvBUwYp Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset=UTF-8; name="0001-dd-counts-ending-in-B-now-count-bytes.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-dd-counts-ending-in-B-now-count-bytes.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RnJvbSAxNTVjYzk0NWRiNTRhYjU0MTU5NGYzYTU5Y2ZlODA4YmM5YWVhM2ZkIE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBQYXVsIEVnZ2VydCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1 PgpEYXRlOiBUdWUsIDIyIEZlYiAyMDIyIDE4OjI3OjA5IC0wODAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRD SF0gZGQ6IGNvdW50cyBlbmRpbmcgaW4gIkIiIG5vdyBjb3VudCBieXRlcwoKVGhpcyBpbXBs ZW1lbnRzIG15IHN1Z2dlc3Rpb24gaW4gQnVnIzU0MTEyLgoqIHNyYy9kZC5jICh1c2FnZSk6 IERvY3VtZW50IHRoZSBjaGFuZ2UuCihwYXJzZV9pbnRlZ2VyLCBzY2FuYXJncyk6IEltcGxl bWVudCB0aGUgY2hhbmdlLgpPbWl0IHNvbWUgbm93LW9ic29sZXRlIGNoZWNrcyBmb3IgaW52 YWxpZCBmbGFncy4KKiB0ZXN0cy9kZC9ieXRlcy5zaDogVGVzdCB0aGUgbmV3IGJlaGF2aW9y LCB3aGlsZSByZXRhaW5pbmcKY2hlY2tzIGZvciB0aGUgbm93LW9ic29sZXRlIHVzYWdlLgoq 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Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 11:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator