From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:00:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#54112: dd seek_bytes etc. is confusing Resent-From: Paul Eggert Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:04:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 54112 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 54112@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: Coreutils Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.164554944012368 (code B ref -1); Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:04:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Feb 2022 17:04:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42496 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMYZw-0003DN-0F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:04:00 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:53732) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMYZu-0003DE-De for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:03:54 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52806) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nMYZu-00069l-7B for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:03:54 -0500 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:50078) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nMYZr-0004jA-GU for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:03:53 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AFEE160140 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:03:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id fZc2K4GrZiPH for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:03:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED359160143 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:03:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id NAdBMAIC0nl1 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:03:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-172-91-119-151.socal.res.rr.com [172.91.119.151]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CB164160140 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:03:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:03:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.0 Content-Language: en-US From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=131.179.128.68; envelope-from=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; helo=zimbra.cs.ucla.edu X-Spam_score_int: -41 X-Spam_score: -4.2 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) While looking into Bug#45648 I noticed that the GNU extensions count_bytes, seek_bytes, and skip_bytes are confusing, and the proposed fix to bug#45648 would make them even more confusing. To fix this confusion, we should deprecate these options, and instead say that if you want to use byte counts you should use a number string ending in "B". Here's another way to put it. Currently this: dd oseek=100KiB means "seek 102,400 blocks". It should simply mean "seek 102,400 bytes", which is what it says. And if we change oseek's meaning this way, we don't need "oseek_bytes". Although this is an incompatible change to GNU dd, I don't think it'll affect real-world uses (who would use oseek in such a confusing way now?) and overall it will be a win. From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:00:52 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#54112: dd seek_bytes etc. is confusing Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:30:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 54112 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert , 54112@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 54112-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B54112.164555097615144 (code B ref 54112); Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:30:03 +0000 Received: (at 54112) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Feb 2022 17:29:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42551 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMYym-0003wB-5r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:29:36 -0500 Received: from mail-wr1-f43.google.com ([209.85.221.43]:45940) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMYyk-0003vx-27 for 54112@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:29:34 -0500 Received: by mail-wr1-f43.google.com with SMTP id p9so34745189wra.12 for <54112@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:29:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=sender:message-id:date:mime-version:user-agent:subject :content-language:to:references:from:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jfU5+LgLfP8xrwg2VA1YsMI0GW2Ih8Y43m/dZkpQYpo=; b=hV6KWvMmzrFcuA8WDx59lIseH0jlgGHIKO+HIOfCT/xVkOiQNMr/1uyRRWqwgNfpEf JMbIbtMjo9uoLtG4q7/B0G+eIjUyiiYdYyVCk36Nso+RBIAFKBJ0/UdWsbQZm0Rp/kLP lziCEJDT6qPXrwG0cTCbUPZx1ZTDKY1Dvu/XsPhXIOnFe1TE7DnpjgS4eomJuWe926c6 1SdrbPYhfVbWqVEipAwJZqA2eBlyMTy3KNa2wWSi8TTMhxh0XFuqeOuIWlPqdFkMRfeg w95ddY7ryDgOaGZCi+R34zGM9AmS1wtARhKJtJuHXbQAeXXdOABY9Nt3BuUVysCPDcKJ Xn4Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:message-id:date:mime-version:user-agent :subject:content-language:to:references:from:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jfU5+LgLfP8xrwg2VA1YsMI0GW2Ih8Y43m/dZkpQYpo=; b=PU3rhkc6B/y28n/Hq+jiZ9HfSTLrQ1v5Y/3Yrt5ulTSH0l3GJUdDbJMdDuIH8vkb1j oO5Hyrgw52udYdOPxHYXvyILvEfgmnCeR0q71wTo599pOxIVEo+1L+1j1xGstjkQtAR+ scPuM93x3y0biI4B+sNHaiVaA6G2TZ27FkPrxp8IMR8MFHRm2IKVnvK/pcNfAosmo3qp dlgZ1g9davXDj6KT/LRvZCHSxw8pBzwWK+j0dWnMqnCUbuyW+U6LiIsfVq8Lg6YihVKq acoIKtIXxXHNedzoPx43LH8nyDpd2F0m0t+sr4m7czE1ouXpmJJo1MO/C6dAkWczX4bs jANQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533TIRj6LGWTSwWrRaX6kQU+YsT7SL27veFxB1MpfNezvRDUwsLq PCKrPPZ0d+0F8d+/RqBTiEU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxZc3XS3cGED6gU6AyRGTg2U+22ECQNTIXQpcQPcvd/IDLT8BUsluZXBEfjtGtKf0eN+X9A3Q== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6292:0:b0:1e7:8afb:73ea with SMTP id k18-20020a5d6292000000b001e78afb73eamr20039568wru.149.1645550968000; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:29:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (95-44-90-175-dynamic.agg2.lod.rsl-rtd.eircom.net. [95.44.90.175]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id r2sm4019250wmq.24.2022.02.22.09.29.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:29:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5c11d221-9212-f4e1-b2c9-3957b8732c80@draigBrady.com> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 17:29:26 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:97.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/97.0 Content-Language: en-US References: From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) On 22/02/2022 17:03, Paul Eggert wrote: > While looking into Bug#45648 I noticed that the GNU extensions > count_bytes, seek_bytes, and skip_bytes are confusing, and the proposed > fix to bug#45648 would make them even more confusing. To fix this > confusion, we should deprecate these options, and instead say that if > you want to use byte counts you should use a number string ending in "B". > > Here's another way to put it. Currently this: > > dd oseek=100KiB > > means "seek 102,400 blocks". It should simply mean "seek 102,400 bytes", > which is what it says. And if we change oseek's meaning this way, we > don't need "oseek_bytes". > > Although this is an incompatible change to GNU dd, I don't think it'll > affect real-world uses (who would use oseek in such a confusing way > now?) and overall it will be a win. That is a more concise and direct way to achieve the same functionality. +1 I guess we should remove docs for the other options, but leave support there for backwards compat. thanks, Pádraig From unknown Sat Aug 16 16:00:52 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Paul Eggert Subject: bug#54112: closed (Re: bug#54112: dd seek_bytes etc. is confusing) Message-ID: References: <3d906d36-5152-f92f-831e-009d024fcb92@cs.ucla.edu> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 54112 X-Gnu-PR-Package: coreutils Reply-To: 54112@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 02:59:02 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1645585142-3921-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1645585142-3921-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #54112: dd seek_bytes etc. is confusing which was filed against the coreutils package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 54112@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 54112: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D54112 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1645585142-3921-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 54112-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2022 02:58:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43324 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMhrL-00010N-JP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 21:58:32 -0500 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:35646) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMhrI-000107-5A for 54112-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 21:58:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07A2316014E; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:58:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id IfAbDpBw4R-h; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:58:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23632160152; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:58:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id TNPjQujx247f; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:58:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [131.179.64.200] (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F3BA316014E; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:58:19 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5ppsPtCABf3Uu4vHFvvBUwYp" Message-ID: <3d906d36-5152-f92f-831e-009d024fcb92@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 18:58:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.0 Subject: Re: bug#54112: dd seek_bytes etc. is confusing Content-Language: en-US To: =?UTF-8?Q?P=c3=a1draig_Brady?= References: <5c11d221-9212-f4e1-b2c9-3957b8732c80@draigBrady.com> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department In-Reply-To: <5c11d221-9212-f4e1-b2c9-3957b8732c80@draigBrady.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 54112-done Cc: 54112-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5ppsPtCABf3Uu4vHFvvBUwYp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2/22/22 09:29, P=C3=A1draig Brady wrote: > That is a more concise and direct way to achieve the same functionality= . > +1 >=20 > I guess we should remove docs for the other options, > but leave support there for backwards compat. Sounds good, I installed the attached and am closing the bug report. --------------5ppsPtCABf3Uu4vHFvvBUwYp Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset=UTF-8; name="0001-dd-counts-ending-in-B-now-count-bytes.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-dd-counts-ending-in-B-now-count-bytes.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RnJvbSAxNTVjYzk0NWRiNTRhYjU0MTU5NGYzYTU5Y2ZlODA4YmM5YWVhM2ZkIE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBQYXVsIEVnZ2VydCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1 PgpEYXRlOiBUdWUsIDIyIEZlYiAyMDIyIDE4OjI3OjA5IC0wODAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRD SF0gZGQ6IGNvdW50cyBlbmRpbmcgaW4gIkIiIG5vdyBjb3VudCBieXRlcwoKVGhpcyBpbXBs ZW1lbnRzIG15IHN1Z2dlc3Rpb24gaW4gQnVnIzU0MTEyLgoqIHNyYy9kZC5jICh1c2FnZSk6 IERvY3VtZW50IHRoZSBjaGFuZ2UuCihwYXJzZV9pbnRlZ2VyLCBzY2FuYXJncyk6IEltcGxl bWVudCB0aGUgY2hhbmdlLgpPbWl0IHNvbWUgbm93LW9ic29sZXRlIGNoZWNrcyBmb3IgaW52 YWxpZCBmbGFncy4KKiB0ZXN0cy9kZC9ieXRlcy5zaDogVGVzdCB0aGUgbmV3IGJlaGF2aW9y LCB3aGlsZSByZXRhaW5pbmcKY2hlY2tzIGZvciB0aGUgbm93LW9ic29sZXRlIHVzYWdlLgoq 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Feb 2022 12:03:54 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52806) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nMYZu-00069l-7B for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:03:54 -0500 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:50078) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nMYZr-0004jA-GU for bug-coreutils@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 12:03:53 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AFEE160140 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:03:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id fZc2K4GrZiPH for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:03:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED359160143 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:03:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id NAdBMAIC0nl1 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:03:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-172-91-119-151.socal.res.rr.com [172.91.119.151]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CB164160140 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:03:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 09:03:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.0 Content-Language: en-US To: Coreutils From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Subject: dd seek_bytes etc. is confusing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=131.179.128.68; envelope-from=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; helo=zimbra.cs.ucla.edu X-Spam_score_int: -41 X-Spam_score: -4.2 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) While looking into Bug#45648 I noticed that the GNU extensions count_bytes, seek_bytes, and skip_bytes are confusing, and the proposed fix to bug#45648 would make them even more confusing. To fix this confusion, we should deprecate these options, and instead say that if you want to use byte counts you should use a number string ending in "B". Here's another way to put it. Currently this: dd oseek=100KiB means "seek 102,400 blocks". It should simply mean "seek 102,400 bytes", which is what it says. And if we change oseek's meaning this way, we don't need "oseek_bytes". Although this is an incompatible change to GNU dd, I don't think it'll affect real-world uses (who would use oseek in such a confusing way now?) and overall it will be a win. ------------=_1645585142-3921-1--