From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Philipp Stephani Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 13:09:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 53316@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.164242491516620 (code B ref -1); Mon, 17 Jan 2022 13:09:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jan 2022 13:08:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45025 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n9RkQ-0004Jz-Ts for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2022 08:08:35 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:52244) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n9RkN-0004Jq-Fu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2022 08:08:33 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34472) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n9RkN-0007Yz-1b for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2022 08:08:31 -0500 Received: from [2a00:1450:4864:20::32e] (port=39801 helo=mail-wm1-x32e.google.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n9RkL-0005jH-4n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2022 08:08:30 -0500 Received: by mail-wm1-x32e.google.com with SMTP id d18-20020a05600c251200b0034974323cfaso24206617wma.4 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2022 05:07:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=tlbqkseojvEFiwOwi01xCaMGwcyyRdvYoqCNG+IpYmo=; b=Ovku/KuP7XrThnI5BfojA5EkF7FZKX3kVdt25KtB5LI/O3nOerX9wGgtRcEp2Ysa9u mFezXcefVwgvpImCOC+n7cqznhv+A2m0NVHwxAZ8kHetBCir7PbM16UfpoRv04UMhzWj tXsIYY3I64MWj83B7CPkIMHjodJo18zOHuG/5ktm/UgG0u6seGIpPC2Oqavz2/zjyxSe lRM+l9PAn+8vl6czXzn1Q44oEClggvz3LFElGwx4uBkb5Z3r4xeB1SjBMfe55p3OsvVC /6MwJ+QfO5OHF7tDoCsQgbiPJ8G88Sgnk4AkXnFuEq/KXI7i7DxSMNpaKxUNyi/hpjBx g7bA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=tlbqkseojvEFiwOwi01xCaMGwcyyRdvYoqCNG+IpYmo=; b=6sCmAjrZVXztj9vb4AFEP/cwfK+m8373rPaojXUvAy4T0LhErGM7dsn4amVi8wFOMw EhM+jJXCI9Qw0u2kZL+tgo1t+c7wrjKVmKQ78SLygLJifRkHM3T6b7upTX0zlo8HULeq LsXmh7PhuusyEJbNa2hnHNr4iPi0/ktLEAEDSFrltv4SwLSgqMnJeSqYD6SvHOQOAS5h sa+52sofiEtx0E7SRdFm4s88pQ60vAreLKKlGh1g7PLEtcHu9VgoIZBYqVnesOgjQYyG gTMf/PzAquNzzcqKmbHfstSkKvOJjpKdqqMrCsQOd0QemNZX99wczTX8OzGQbySl7bOg QO1A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533QwrElHcy8ZIwlmfelstMsMXV95kK96GxE6rhNPoDmjIhxyWXL +WN2yscC8nuU9F6lYezKy7d8fLz3y6g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxF7pVBNmE8nZLEPDYotnDUgidgW3Y+QcZvZ7/0r0pFtU82m2H9VMb+sGKCFWwa1BDLdaXMJQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:1acc:: with SMTP id i12mr18459865wry.256.1642424864668; Mon, 17 Jan 2022 05:07:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from phst ([2a02:2455:2a4:dc00:6bbf:261f:9b3:c72f]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i6sm9592554wrf.21.2022.01.17.05.07.43 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 17 Jan 2022 05:07:44 -0800 (PST) From: Philipp Stephani Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2022 14:07:42 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:1450:4864:20::32e (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::32e; envelope-from=p.stephani2@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x32e.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Transient has its own manual (transient.org/.texi), but that's missing from the version shipped with Emacs. Could we add the manual to the Emacs release? In GNU Emacs 28.0.91 (build 6, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.30, cairo version 1.16.0) of 2022-01-15 Repository revision: 7f36aca99dc1387cfeb599c9f2bb781036f79cf1 Repository branch: emacs-28 [...] Content analysis details: (1.6 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record 0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in digit (p.stephani2[at]gmail.com) 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (p.stephani2[at]gmail.com) -2.3 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, medium trust [209.51.188.17 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 RBL: Good reputation (+3) [209.51.188.17 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders 1.3 SPOOFED_FREEMAIL No description available. 1.5 SPOOF_GMAIL_MID From Gmail but it doesn't seem to be... X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) Transient has its own manual (transient.org/.texi), but that's missing from the version shipped with Emacs. Could we add the manual to the Emacs release? In GNU Emacs 28.0.91 (build 6, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.30, c= airo version 1.16.0) of 2022-01-15 Repository revision: 7f36aca99dc1387cfeb599c9f2bb781036f79cf1 Repository branch: emacs-28 Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12013000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux rodete Configured using: 'configure --enable-gcc-warnings=3Dwarn-only --enable-gtk-deprecation-warnings --without-pop --with-mailutils --enable-checking=3Dall --enable-check-lisp-object-type --with-modules 'CFLAGS=3D-O0 -ggdb3'' Configured features: CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LIBSELINUX LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 MODULES NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG SECCOMP SOUND THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS X11 XDBE XIM XPM GTK3 ZLIB Important settings: value of $LC_TIME: en_DK.utf8 value of $LANG: en_US.utf8 value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=3Dibus locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Lisp Interaction Minor modes in effect: tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t eldoc-mode: t show-paren-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t indent-tabs-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug sendmail phst skeleton edmacro kmacro pcase ffap thingatpt url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie url-domsuf url-util url-parse url-vars mailcap rx message rmc dired dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml mml-sec epa derived epg rfc6068 epg-config gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddefs auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs eieio-loaddefs password-cache json map time-date mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 mm-util ietf-drums mail-prsvr mailabbrev mail-utils gmm-utils mailheader gnutls puny elp dbus xml subr-x seq byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile cconv compile text-property-search comint ansi-color ring cl-loaddefs cl-lib iso-transl tooltip eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray cl-preloaded nadvice button loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting cairo move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 69543 6664) (symbols 48 8543 3) (strings 32 24824 2518) (string-bytes 1 802012) (vectors 16 15668) (vector-slots 8 207469 16091) (floats 8 29 46) (intervals 56 228 0) (buffers 992 11)) --=20 Google Germany GmbH Erika-Mann-Stra=C3=9Fe 33 80636 M=C3=BCnchen Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Paul Manicle, Halimah DeLaine Prado Registergericht und -nummer: Hamburg, HRB 86891 Sitz der Gesellschaft: Hamburg Diese E-Mail ist vertraulich. 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From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 11:30:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Philipp Stephani Cc: Jonas Bernoulli , 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.164276455229275 (code B ref 53316); Fri, 21 Jan 2022 11:30:02 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jan 2022 11:29:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60367 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nAs6R-0007c7-SW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2022 06:29:12 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:33394) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nAs6P-0007bo-TS for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jan 2022 06:29:10 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=eL2wpvZKv7Q+SQFOrEA0Q2VzIE8boR3vWxNTvI3dyy0=; b=cxH+KaLcWw17bk05VNl5V60J/J pHFRYM2KthzMkSt0/m97U31PLq/N/0kYV18zfv4Ps78gm5PmXDMj0mGymTECVDJcy6NXzucKjh/7/ W1bUFWmBX17Pc6tfRbezAwottUy9HvPf5cmYS60aWIYTS8JycDDROZcxW/501mbujBKs=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nAs6H-0002zw-2Z; Fri, 21 Jan 2022 12:29:03 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: X-Now-Playing: Chem Farmer's _Levitation Sessions_: "Nite Expo" Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 12:29:00 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Philipp Stephani's message of "Mon, 17 Jan 2022 14:07:42 +0100") Message-ID: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Philipp Stephani writes: > Transient has its own manual (transient.org/.texi), but that's missing > from the version shipped with Emacs. Could we add the manual to the > Emacs release? Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Philipp Stephani writes: > Transient has its own manual (transient.org/.texi), but that's missing > from the version shipped with Emacs. Could we add the manual to the > Emacs release? Sounds like a good idea to me; adding Jonas to the CCs. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Jonas Bernoulli Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 20:31:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Philipp Stephani Cc: 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.164314263122500 (code B ref 53316); Tue, 25 Jan 2022 20:31:01 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jan 2022 20:30:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50258 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCSSU-0005qa-TK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:30:31 -0500 Received: from mail.hostpark.net ([212.243.197.30]:58872) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCSST-0005mk-9t for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:30:30 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.hostpark.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C9A3165D1; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:30:27 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=bernoul.li; h= content-type:content-type:mime-version:message-id:date:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:subject:from:from:received :received; s=sel2011a; t=1643142625; bh=Vqktw5DiAF24sf5MVx2Myr7D iquE7yIn49EY4sAmmL8=; b=aOs+qUfTXQuZ2kMZ0/soAHqPdre+j8Xe88awJY/o uVgNCSGcNjT3+tl7sQiWG1uyrx4frJ8Zzu9iScXlPgW5Eqa9f24vd+MZ/6WzJkOm Zk2d2SwMR/vLruiTlAN2qjbLcW7iOZRLhEsLM50Fo2xyBAkj885iV88aA+4Zd6Wj Y34= X-Virus-Scanned: by Hostpark/NetZone Mailprotection at hostpark.net Received: from mail.hostpark.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail0.hostpark.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10224) with ESMTP id nwcLDRBFN8Io; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:30:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.hostpark.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 33768165CB; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:30:25 +0100 (CET) From: Jonas Bernoulli In-Reply-To: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:30:25 +0100 Message-ID: <87ilu77e3i.fsf@bernoul.li> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Philipp Stephani writes: > >> Transient has its own manual (transient.org/.texi), but that's missing >> from the version shipped with Emacs. Could we add the manual to the >> Emacs release? > > Sounds like a good idea to me; adding Jonas to the CCs. Agreed. I was planning to create a new release first and merge that into "emacs-28" before doing so, but it seems the ship has sailed. On the other hand it contains important bug fixes (but also new features) and nothing on "emacs-28" uses it yet. So maybe it would still be okay to update even during the pre-release phase; I don't know. Removing it from "emacs-28" and only releasing it in 29 (or maybe 28.2) might also be an option. From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Philipp Stephani Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 20:42:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jonas Bernoulli Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.164314330030178 (code B ref 53316); Tue, 25 Jan 2022 20:42:01 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jan 2022 20:41:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50262 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCSdH-0007qf-UC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:41:40 -0500 Received: from mail-wr1-f52.google.com ([209.85.221.52]:45738) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCSdE-0007qQ-Cl for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:41:39 -0500 Received: by mail-wr1-f52.google.com with SMTP id r25so5378419wrc.12 for <53316@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 12:41:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=Fw7/pxQ7MPtKoB9WjPMmF5unKSsm6niSUq3ogFG4p/0=; b=f/Sn7P4KPuXv0i/no2UigGFvw1hKr5nNaOCCc/H5uk8razM466qPVWX24EhB17tLr2 a/rfOrbh9kfukNRrY/kvdXeCaKYm42SdjVB6hVJzJLsqKb/fjY9VOdp/BV92BahvP6WN dfyph7Px6/+EQyVokv+KSZSzDHGtXOYhoFMZHEY8kB5fV01wgJeVPuiW0Yr9wM3wazhM v/whXxnEhpz55CgReEIPBlJaWB2WpcpbES9GoxuyrN6nx5bEDX3TVvOMAXIdJooj1bwl Z3MJVfjuQxYImb5ISgttf2l5JYCJmhwOpnNThwtR5mmafvcEMsgNMCkdzUqYiL/haCrI jNOg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=Fw7/pxQ7MPtKoB9WjPMmF5unKSsm6niSUq3ogFG4p/0=; b=2a1duX2YJ7TgZmo1QN+S1GgSYvEoIuy9P0XmQgi7G9v/f3PQNK+aDfb/hAwva7HUcY jH6rx2wdVXSHEWyh1t2M1Dwa/+IfQcLd55TCXPlUus30hfzFXikAxYd6wNUR89TJJJbM ZhcEYWd09t7Gh83o9UagyTJmaYPH4XN5Ain8AzyS2nfej9QLATmQKa6P8WQp8YfGN0j0 r0LzS35TpED+R7coaF3jkVnrdguCsVgM0fzFGRR60A9/OfwwVz8UGiUWvOvxyl54ticE kxMN9vRBwS8d0+lExyKPtrBu7Tu1Jv1jyc7KCpVMvFTv1Ne3cglhck5vNESXGA4zGlou HlBQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532BJS9ufnIE/lemEfxi6QNwkuNV5ZSMQOs/58UyeAgGNCI7mfD4 xF0sEOxVfzFG0WI9cGiiw0U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxG29kIxgkgCExFdmCAM+n69/LCUFKfuwkqxX7dlWswnxnNUwycGBS2FcU2w4GcFRARjYPk+Q== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:610b:: with SMTP id v11mr19904517wrt.487.1643143290419; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 12:41:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2a02:2455:2a4:dc00:d85e:f16a:2547:d608]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t4sm17741182wro.71.2022.01.25.12.41.29 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 25 Jan 2022 12:41:30 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.40.0.1.81\)) From: Philipp Stephani In-Reply-To: <87ilu77e3i.fsf@bernoul.li> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:41:29 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <680E378A-BF43-4F47-BD2A-525A57283F49@gmail.com> References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87ilu77e3i.fsf@bernoul.li> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.40.0.1.81) X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) > Am 25.01.2022 um 21:30 schrieb Jonas Bernoulli : >=20 > Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: >=20 >> Philipp Stephani writes: >>=20 >>> Transient has its own manual (transient.org/.texi), but that's = missing >>> from the version shipped with Emacs. Could we add the manual to the >>> Emacs release? >>=20 >> Sounds like a good idea to me; adding Jonas to the CCs. >=20 > Agreed. I was planning to create a new release first and merge that > into "emacs-28" before doing so, but it seems the ship has sailed. >=20 > On the other hand it contains important bug fixes (but also new > features) and nothing on "emacs-28" uses it yet. So maybe it would > still be okay to update even during the pre-release phase; I don't = know. > Removing it from "emacs-28" and only releasing it in 29 (or maybe = 28.2) > might also be an option. Or maybe it would be feasible to add the manual version that corresponds = to the Emacs 28 version?= From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Jonas Bernoulli Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:16:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Philipp Stephani Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.16431453301498 (code B ref 53316); Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:16:01 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Jan 2022 21:15:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50403 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCTA2-0000O6-4B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 16:15:30 -0500 Received: from mail.hostpark.net ([212.243.197.30]:52938) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCT9x-0000Nt-6k for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 16:15:28 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.hostpark.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB845164A6; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 22:15:23 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=bernoul.li; h= content-type:content-type:mime-version:message-id:date:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:subject:from:from:received :received; s=sel2011a; t=1643145321; bh=kC2jiNDcLU/i6ITrCPMopJnc pXRfLMag2TnQ6+XymSk=; b=NH2DGyn+AO+gMaksJk2dEBQy2rDD/j9j1Kc5bZw5 zYEFGw7BjswIzGlKzI2X3OTTi2AqST/wvM288o3QI6O4aC1DPMIw3LwVLkVkM4BM voVsvUtjkXPAhLbPcYbSu2fchDgo+P0CKxZnSLK8y5E+FBm5GtcoIjK3WLu0PoKe H6A= X-Virus-Scanned: by Hostpark/NetZone Mailprotection at hostpark.net Received: from mail.hostpark.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail1.hostpark.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10224) with ESMTP id G2Va-42gABv1; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 22:15:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.hostpark.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7F233163CB; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 22:15:21 +0100 (CET) From: Jonas Bernoulli In-Reply-To: <680E378A-BF43-4F47-BD2A-525A57283F49@gmail.com> References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87ilu77e3i.fsf@bernoul.li> <680E378A-BF43-4F47-BD2A-525A57283F49@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 22:15:21 +0100 Message-ID: <87a6fj7c0m.fsf@bernoul.li> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Philipp Stephani writes: >> Am 25.01.2022 um 21:30 schrieb Jonas Bernoulli : >> >> Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: >> >>> Philipp Stephani writes: >>> >>>> Transient has its own manual (transient.org/.texi), but that's missing >>>> from the version shipped with Emacs. Could we add the manual to the >>>> Emacs release? >>> >>> Sounds like a good idea to me; adding Jonas to the CCs. >> >> Agreed. I was planning to create a new release first and merge that >> into "emacs-28" before doing so, but it seems the ship has sailed. >> >> On the other hand it contains important bug fixes (but also new >> features) and nothing on "emacs-28" uses it yet. So maybe it would >> still be okay to update even during the pre-release phase; I don't know. >> Removing it from "emacs-28" and only releasing it in 29 (or maybe 28.2) >> might also be an option. > > Or maybe it would be feasible to add the manual version that > corresponds to the Emacs 28 version? Yes. Just saying that wasn't the plan. (And that won't make the bugs go away. And some of them were quite severe, but I believe that those that made it necessary to kill Emacs from the outside have at least been neutered, i.e. there's still an error but Emacs remains usable.) From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Michael Albinus Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 09:09:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jonas Bernoulli Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Philipp Stephani , 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.164318810024849 (code B ref 53316); Wed, 26 Jan 2022 09:09:01 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jan 2022 09:08:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50948 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCeHs-0006Sj-B5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 04:08:20 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:53631) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nCeHq-0006SU-1P for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 04:08:18 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1643188091; bh=COAP5qxWtlqvaRv4I8arONEJngtnsYQQ8S/a5fMUDAs=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=Uzyg48RfgcZJiNkrK3k21NLq5ou3DcychyXQrBHGGh/H7EtkOyEi8DcGRwtg/QhAc KKFpbCrHdi//5IFqrgMCIpIe7mvD63ac9x1LXu2o3w2vNEsgHMnnWnTy7ssWzOE//b q6OwpdGecIEHrMv+TwzzxgfoP+qFKftdoxo/XXtk= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from gandalf.gmx.de ([79.140.118.216]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N0oBx-1mIUn93r0P-00wny1; Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:08:11 +0100 From: Michael Albinus References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87ilu77e3i.fsf@bernoul.li> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 10:08:09 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87ilu77e3i.fsf@bernoul.li> (Jonas Bernoulli's message of "Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:30:25 +0100") Message-ID: <87lez2zwxy.fsf@gmx.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:ZrwSchXNncg9m0gy8DfpirRdkiHeY6caVZGPO3yEiXTsW9wA1er xpPQ/WhE2sxlCiY+0ct8+ehsTFKXcOS1YGy3H0/p+O3jaWx3HxGPBCajroZF9s0KoEmISy1 P7x+SJoPI9n5QEeg9B8vsfmFqw3b+I2EWwOui2Ye1s0ahynn+O5fowEnEvaClzHvGZkyBBr 7C0z3x/vBqt0c4JK8NIAQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:UVfNR11GrDY=:HOZ1z014FkoXdRujU4HF59 062LY0myhnXJaTJsKWXuK9iBboPs8QTMhuzEneI9SFmPx+YuUZ80UohG3s2qGfbmno1fTuzgT wM8gAhmp3Vd7Cg3P5Ta8Nqnqqq+wzDfk+vIyVuswJo+MR/s5b3/ye2B0Qd+DZpKTUTM1oFAHM ZfJuZBejaWuFdm0OEuyo67Ro21ZeDt65qEwet8WIN/Bw3BuqBobN7SeFHCH482DLoZeiQQa0m l8Hgvofq1DgJS1BwssRtD6ooqZ6UY8xQOnTFJq7vx9epVEyT2wVogutkmpv+fvYB9NjeKrDLS 8I7rm+yJccH+zunH9Up0gFMdTMHCfMJRUdEwfjTvXZCuWkMoOsVjTjKuvUgsFkIh2u11+mbd/ VaWO5Z6cbgOC3RHv5KK+F5m8DcBTgFh9DLRpOKiBIgkC3pUVw33Sg7btCQ+zQVu05Z3bewcJ5 n96AmWRuJ8d7pcbvfDZgOChGuvYWIhDcl8WYAKFPeUgp7P8rriOiqC+nMOwUa5ySb4euCPAyE fReOkTuFDWI0GhJjE4NxN+5yUEPdEh81TGz0D+HE9pkZJOZ7jX38mh8IkU6dEydDg2cW1prN7 lhZDxDV/bmo6VynDlcHRKx88wVFfC2QC0/bPA85DsKYJzD/4Kl7dtlpoyJ8PtMm9jFz5m6nPH d9vLeOumOVCtvYMm98EjVSb5yvjOT4JYj2yCoapjlAiR0fAuzpjqk9ivpaWZgy9D5uCdkDGw2 rK92rCtxJVLiNFBeZEZr6edmRc9o6D8zBvllRKa0fG0L/WCcZfcec91jJcTnoatjM1vWUL/3I Dh859s+isoL5MHylA3BBMPHSJ6g2yCswUMgw86gfa1B8bWpqMYNXvYXTQL1BD1cjiXRRQd8jM QztgWDs4/zvefNMXQnjoW3bv1N/eFCcMzRVXJCYszzO6TGdAzlfvClluCaF/zKfmDErplZhaF SgyeAJ3lDFSOambLN9nwcr/dzVkNEwHel25gt9W4hi3C1+CHS5oyqX1DxARgDcun3cSsX2HYx 8NVx8Eq2wlB3hpcP8tVK5BfP1rqN7qxJyd+RzWDMZNfbep/QiKyuygz292v14SgZgCMvpaCxt r8KMibor5i5aLg= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Jonas Bernoulli writes: > Agreed. I was planning to create a new release first and merge that > into "emacs-28" before doing so, but it seems the ship has sailed. > > On the other hand it contains important bug fixes (but also new > features) and nothing on "emacs-28" uses it yet. So maybe it would > still be okay to update even during the pre-release phase; I don't know. > Removing it from "emacs-28" and only releasing it in 29 (or maybe 28.2) > might also be an option. I have a similar problem with Tramp. Emacs 28 pretest has frozen the files, but changes still arrive. So I trust that people will use the GNU ELPA version, which is released regularly. In case of reported errors, I recommend to install it once the error is fixed there. After the release of Emacs 28.1, these Tramp changes will be merged. Best regards, Michael. From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Jonas Bernoulli Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 16:54:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Philipp Stephani Cc: 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.164494401524108 (code B ref 53316); Tue, 15 Feb 2022 16:54:01 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Feb 2022 16:53:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46312 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nK154-0006Gm-OZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 11:53:34 -0500 Received: from mail.hostpark.net ([212.243.197.30]:46222) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nK152-0006Gc-Rw for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 11:53:34 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.hostpark.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F8116AD7; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:53:31 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=bernoul.li; h= content-type:content-type:mime-version:message-id:date:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:subject:from:from:received :received; s=sel2011a; t=1644944008; bh=ReNmc0snwIj9tYpLA7nCB/Qh I51UpARL7/vbnl4We8s=; b=lTeiEL/pACRAiT5+XITRR5o5g/qdbJKd9EazIRrV +DhrxVJZont0EWaz5KRqq1gp+bml5O2io5SD4+UqQWiFYBITeLtD1Dk3/SQN82n9 tb4E6SzkRJt4MJ1RWV2E/Bd5LaC1svk1CvnsLtcWvFYzuujxhJWGBDmLrAETQz4l EiQ= X-Virus-Scanned: by Hostpark/NetZone Mailprotection at hostpark.net Received: from mail.hostpark.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail1.hostpark.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10224) with ESMTP id Kl9eQ7j7OtKk; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:53:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.hostpark.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E916316AA9; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:53:28 +0100 (CET) From: Jonas Bernoulli In-Reply-To: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:53:26 +0100 Message-ID: <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Philipp Stephani writes: > >> Transient has its own manual (transient.org/.texi), but that's missing >> from the version shipped with Emacs. Could we add the manual to the >> Emacs release? > > Sounds like a good idea to me; adding Jonas to the CCs. I've just added. I've added the generated texi file not the org source because to export that correctly my ox-texinfo+ package is required. A new implementation of the main feature of that package recently made it into Org's main branch, so once the next feature release is merged into Emacs' master branch, then we can track the org file instead (on master). Jonas From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Jonas Bernoulli Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 16:59:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Philipp Stephani Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.164494429424620 (code B ref 53316); Tue, 15 Feb 2022 16:59:02 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Feb 2022 16:58:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46330 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nK19Z-0006P0-GT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 11:58:13 -0500 Received: from mail.hostpark.net ([212.243.197.30]:46436) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nK19L-0006Nu-LO for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 11:58:12 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.hostpark.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0F2B16AAC; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:57:58 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=bernoul.li; h= content-type:content-type:mime-version:message-id:date:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:subject:from:from:received :received; s=sel2011a; t=1644944276; bh=88w37up9KQXIa73iwo3yYCe9 h/OEVxZhUu1Spg1Xqh0=; b=vPiMI/GnRf59x//KBbg1k4Uod7gzPG2TSaXadFa2 eyuKv7JyjmFRWz7W/E+yHmm9j2ODYezTBeM7zQu3UxHKi+YEp6Dx4Fl3CaF9+2uu /6sFKx3sRDcM3loix6TNrsIdeLSzeGRVq1JoMHnIbquJy/JpRMll8C50uK4FdPKe eoU= X-Virus-Scanned: by Hostpark/NetZone Mailprotection at hostpark.net Received: from mail.hostpark.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail1.hostpark.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10224) with ESMTP id xRkSeXEi6fC4; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:57:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.hostpark.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C36B716AA9; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:57:56 +0100 (CET) From: Jonas Bernoulli In-Reply-To: <87a6fj7c0m.fsf@bernoul.li> References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87ilu77e3i.fsf@bernoul.li> <680E378A-BF43-4F47-BD2A-525A57283F49@gmail.com> <87a6fj7c0m.fsf@bernoul.li> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:57:56 +0100 Message-ID: <87fsokcbjf.fsf@bernoul.li> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Jonas Bernoulli writes: > Philipp Stephani writes: > >>> Am 25.01.2022 um 21:30 schrieb Jonas Bernoulli : >>> >>> Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: >>> >>>> Philipp Stephani writes: >>>> >>>>> Transient has its own manual (transient.org/.texi), but that's missing >>>>> from the version shipped with Emacs. Could we add the manual to the >>>>> Emacs release? >>>> >>>> Sounds like a good idea to me; adding Jonas to the CCs. >>> >>> Agreed. I was planning to create a new release first and merge that >>> into "emacs-28" before doing so, but it seems the ship has sailed. >>> >>> On the other hand it contains important bug fixes (but also new >>> features) and nothing on "emacs-28" uses it yet. So maybe it would >>> still be okay to update even during the pre-release phase; I don't know. >>> Removing it from "emacs-28" and only releasing it in 29 (or maybe 28.2) >>> might also be an option. >> >> Or maybe it would be feasible to add the manual version that >> corresponds to the Emacs 28 version? > > Yes. Just saying that wasn't the plan. (And that won't make the bugs > go away. And some of them were quite severe, but I believe that those > that made it necessary to kill Emacs from the outside have at least > been neutered, i.e. there's still an error but Emacs remains usable.) I had another look and I think we are safe going with v0.3.7. While that comes after the "big refactor to squash the big bug" changes it does comes right after the "remove booby trap" commit. Actually I think that commit is why I released v0.3.7. ;P Jonas From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 19:11:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jonas Bernoulli Cc: larsi@gnus.org, p.stephani2@gmail.com, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.16449522156253 (code B ref 53316); Tue, 15 Feb 2022 19:11:01 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Feb 2022 19:10:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46436 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nK3DB-0001cO-3x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 14:10:15 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57934) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nK3D8-0001bn-O0 for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 14:10:03 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=35486 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nK3D2-0003Xk-QU; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 14:09:56 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=y23yrrKN4cHhqaMBzzhz3oBWtvGXvncV4Rvb87mn4+4=; b=TiTwJQyNCwfP kLG/cAqEsqfaS6F0b5WNvdP8ZUgrLrTB5QdnXLi3eEQmuKKP5R4G72GkLDtyzBV8KyE2zmqXyXlxT zJlIn8P0vJDq67meR+FB0Kf8nymuVx6G+C61IQKQuIYEssmhBCvDIfD6Tt/5JAA2GJP7E+HXvEvn2 Ir0Iac8bpuikFnQiNGSS1dlb8qzQmaACW5T7ItLtmZqOK03glYGHgLaUeopbmfPxQqfGhUuTwQE/P 5m24lOLICo8U5eLbIvDc8FnbWqejAzHWTUxRFSW4OEnIzPAnC0m19m2wxhZTI63xwtKiITl9f9vg9 wFREjqcZRxPvY/zNsIscVQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3625 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nK3Ct-0005c8-R5; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 14:09:56 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 21:09:49 +0200 Message-Id: <83tud02bgi.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> (message from Jonas Bernoulli on Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:53:26 +0100) References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Jonas Bernoulli > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:53:26 +0100 > Cc: 53316@debbugs.gnu.org > > Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > > > Philipp Stephani writes: > > > >> Transient has its own manual (transient.org/.texi), but that's missing > >> from the version shipped with Emacs. Could we add the manual to the > >> Emacs release? > > > > Sounds like a good idea to me; adding Jonas to the CCs. > > I've just added. > > I've added the generated texi file not the org source because to export > that correctly my ox-texinfo+ package is required. A new implementation > of the main feature of that package recently made it into Org's main > branch, so once the next feature release is merged into Emacs' master > branch, then we can track the org file instead (on master). Thanks. However, if the Texinfo file I just spent an hour fixing was produced from the Org source, then either the Org source or the conversion from Org to Texinfo "needs work", because the result had many issues, as you can see. From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 20:18:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jonas Bernoulli Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Philipp Stephani , 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.164495623322148 (code B ref 53316); Tue, 15 Feb 2022 20:18:01 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Feb 2022 20:17:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46559 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nK4G9-0005lA-2E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 15:17:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43990) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nK4G7-0005ky-Bm for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 15:17:11 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=36898 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nK4G1-0005yX-ET; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 15:17:05 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To: From; bh=VTBd8jGHOH9pSQ7LRn77v6ekqiX3C+PNU5leZCMpc1k=; b=fp15YctLaeclEqAOwoS0 E1LoCi65flU2PvR0k6Euvg5KkPbDeOp9KylzUO25G0PyojG/EdJF/nnffeotI9uNUr3TaHXT4JVfj s5kKRd9DR+RN4RNFCUtTS8bbn1ZfSBlGCUTyJ7TfCp1R+zvOhOSFqNjAxUN8eJFDgehf2jiR7PuLl abNH1to3QEVzsCfDpJlSTNGwTaLWt9HDRK6W+EjQZlSrcRTRN1gFYruhO2TWTPbW6bB5S9PKxWUHv p9WRScSd6TlWOo5qO+0N6n5Dtz/Hi9JlO1S0de4UJ3Qj85p0FzPAeivB7grmGrfAU4Mot4YwizmFt AxDIw2cEvVWaww==; Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nK4Fz-0000p9-FY; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 15:17:03 -0500 From: Glenn Morris References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 15:17:03 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> (Jonas Bernoulli's message of "Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:53:26 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Jonas Bernoulli wrote: > I've added the generated texi file not the org source because to export > that correctly my ox-texinfo+ package is required. I believe it is a bug for Emacs not to distribute the preferred form for modification. From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Jonas Bernoulli Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 21:40:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: larsi@gnus.org, p.stephani2@gmail.com, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.164496115230650 (code B ref 53316); Tue, 15 Feb 2022 21:40:02 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Feb 2022 21:39:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46635 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nK5XU-0007yI-7a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 16:39:12 -0500 Received: from mail.hostpark.net ([212.243.197.30]:55038) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nK5XR-0007y8-4w for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 16:39:10 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.hostpark.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8D6516AAC; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:39:07 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=bernoul.li; h= content-type:content-type:mime-version:message-id:date:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:subject:from:from:received :received; s=sel2011a; t=1644961145; bh=GAsIiJEXJ72+lbEpYSySXFHS iPDks+k8GKxbdjKjOrA=; b=YsqgIKUPvhBoGL6emSEJgzVp5OIfTYHkbECWUtDQ /D4/VeVArIiaSDLHEfOVp3ylBrUffrnKC59OMPOHqUU3ChGvyBopS/Q4SKztkEDz dk4yuTjTNuVeDnXBeKopFD2u2EolcGTj6GKa9ZGs/A+5vNFi7fq/ZQ5b8xownPyU 6t0= X-Virus-Scanned: by Hostpark/NetZone Mailprotection at hostpark.net Received: from mail.hostpark.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail1.hostpark.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10224) with ESMTP id YMeTklnUZnUk; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:39:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.hostpark.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 88BEA16400; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:39:05 +0100 (CET) From: Jonas Bernoulli In-Reply-To: <83tud02bgi.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> <83tud02bgi.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:39:05 +0100 Message-ID: <87wnhvdd3a.fsf@bernoul.li> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> I've just added [it]. > Thanks. > > However, if the Texinfo file I just spent an hour fixing was produced > from the Org source, then either the Org source or the conversion from > Org to Texinfo "needs work", because the result had many issues, as > you can see. Some of these are the exporters fault, many others are not. In any case, thanks for identifying both kinds of issues. I will probably come back with some questions. This common issue is already fixed for the manual of the development version. -incomplete prefix key sequence @code{C-x}. This only affects the current +incomplete prefix key sequence @kbd{C-x}. This only affects the current From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Jonas Bernoulli Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 21:47:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Glenn Morris Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Philipp Stephani , 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.164496160631380 (code B ref 53316); Tue, 15 Feb 2022 21:47:01 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Feb 2022 21:46:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46639 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nK5eo-0008A4-2e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 16:46:46 -0500 Received: from mail.hostpark.net ([212.243.197.30]:55208) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nK5el-00089u-Oe for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 16:46:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.hostpark.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34B4616AA9; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:46:42 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=bernoul.li; h= content-type:content-type:mime-version:message-id:date:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:subject:from:from:received :received; s=sel2011a; t=1644961600; bh=c11PofWeyw/8pWcaDm9WgBP3 8t+eZFT3m4mAYh/j50c=; b=Jh/E4mmJztP9DFgeExda8ihgZEF5Bx2mopqmNQjL VZlNegFWjqgZwzJ/FDllxyHRX56bJPmbPJZnICX/SzIMK6rABGrwX7J2IYuDbGas ZYv1XkZ0C33C6DEDdosi6t2f4PxtlsYqrdLpI1U2PGatqDVf9BLOyqFLZTIGm2sw zJY= X-Virus-Scanned: by Hostpark/NetZone Mailprotection at hostpark.net Received: from mail.hostpark.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail1.hostpark.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10224) with ESMTP id Bh7sRc8skt7x; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:46:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.hostpark.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0034716400; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:46:39 +0100 (CET) From: Jonas Bernoulli In-Reply-To: References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:46:39 +0100 Message-ID: <87tuczdcqo.fsf@bernoul.li> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Glenn Morris writes: > Jonas Bernoulli wrote: > >> I've added the generated texi file not the org source because to export >> that correctly my ox-texinfo+ package is required. > > I believe it is a bug for Emacs not to distribute the preferred form for > modification. Since ox-texinfo+.el has already been superseded by a better implementation I don't think it should be added to Emacs. And I don't think it makes sense to add the org file if some of the code needed to produce the texi file are not available inside Emacs. Eli would just have had to fix many more issues manually. I would be in favor of moving the improved implementation from Org's "main" branch to the branch that is synced with Emacs' "emacs-28" branch, but as far as I know its too late for that because of the feature freeze. From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 03:26:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jonas Bernoulli Cc: larsi@gnus.org, p.stephani2@gmail.com, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.164498195513025 (code B ref 53316); Wed, 16 Feb 2022 03:26:01 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Feb 2022 03:25:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47048 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nKAx0-0003O1-Sr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:25:55 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40208) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nKAwy-0003Nk-SK for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:25:53 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=44810 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nKAws-0001SR-Uo; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:25:46 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Pn+ijYmrG/Vw0SlBkyJ854uXwEDV8JcfTwAYlor/9Hg=; b=AmYrHkXVvTna TERwWaY3et9EAeFgX1Bzmp3gbPnujo4fM8NsOM6/GQt4TCUrbFeGO8HcGcdKESZ0FBKgz0ZmviyRd 92Y3XEAva6Ynij7o2GrYHDubL3WNO8nkfQkvhNA8AsATWwcFyeNWK4IhA2O71+a8Mh3uRB5xPjlSC dpMyDKB+fpa9hDHwwMPVPkpWj5U3FFCUVgH6mh8pcdPJbZexVvQalG/UWJTKchXilFFOfq8kiV9XV +96oamDlrdj2MHGF7Wf+EFXXorTKPAJD14mvoptItVFI2Ehu0VDGlexN0dYiv+64G3KswXvzr51hE ryqLSuJSGMLaGiBJD3gU6w==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2246 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nKAws-0004GR-F6; Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:25:46 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 05:25:49 +0200 Message-Id: <83leyb332a.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <87wnhvdd3a.fsf@bernoul.li> (message from Jonas Bernoulli on Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:39:05 +0100) References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> <83tud02bgi.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnhvdd3a.fsf@bernoul.li> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Jonas Bernoulli > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, p.stephani2@gmail.com, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:39:05 +0100 > > This common issue is already fixed for the manual of the development > version. > > -incomplete prefix key sequence @code{C-x}. This only affects the current > +incomplete prefix key sequence @kbd{C-x}. This only affects the current Good to know. Another common issue is use of SOMETHING instead of @var{something}. Yet another problem is quoting "like this" instead of ``like this''. Also, "see @ref" is over-used: in many places it should be either @xref or @pxref instead. Thanks. From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 21:10:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jonas Bernoulli Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Philipp Stephani , 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.164504578913745 (code B ref 53316); Wed, 16 Feb 2022 21:10:02 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Feb 2022 21:09:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49578 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nKRYb-0003Zd-81 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2022 16:09:49 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39670) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nKRYZ-0003ZQ-AF for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2022 16:09:47 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=34138 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nKRYT-0003Zh-Az; Wed, 16 Feb 2022 16:09:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To: From; bh=D0BXxbYwJ+NZKeRXtzCjnsjwyjxI3eUMTZcNiUqgpPc=; b=EtTqhPbx1ae8revtdZ/d V07EdxNk8JsJAA1pt22i04Hcg/bfHqcdgij2p8r8KdqlVM8OeoDiWv9xou9TJcHTFU/+kqhRFzRBv YobSHDDtlXciNGAjGSNamugJaKYStM1n9Yd2QYNY4DJaWb0y51I3NoG3IyXvrtRPUawV5y9ZqJxD5 2CaCyDJgEs+jZ91LsFeWDsxxn3mXdiF0TxEigwUIibT+cbDcSYLlp+HQGQoj865fsegIwqeIVtsi1 iyqc1VCayncdyauF1d5AWWnVLbEZBUJAORdGzo+WMz/9ephAjP5Z8SkVJLxPTzhjL2/On4EXPNNX7 Jlh5pPRqFw8zhA==; Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nKRYR-0002u6-Sd; Wed, 16 Feb 2022 16:09:39 -0500 From: Glenn Morris References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> <87tuczdcqo.fsf@bernoul.li> X-Spook: Homeland Defense Duress fraud CBM Gorelick Dock Bosnia X-Ran: #/d%;GX2#H4t3hUh6YEUGFdoJGiI/b*@;u=P$91]I~I7>*3edpU,rm%";8%42e[Av;r$,Z X-Hue: red X-Attribution: GM Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 16:09:39 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87tuczdcqo.fsf@bernoul.li> (Jonas Bernoulli's message of "Tue, 15 Feb 2022 22:46:39 +0100") Message-ID: <6ar182selo.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) >> I believe it is a bug for Emacs not to distribute the preferred form for >> modification. See previous identical issue https://debbugs.gnu.org/45143 Especially https://debbugs.gnu.org/45143#14 That is a moral fault. We must distribute the real source code, always without exception. > And I don't think it makes sense to add the org file if some of the > code needed to produce the texi file are not available inside Emacs. > Eli would just have had to fix many more issues manually. Then IMO this manual should not be distributed with Emacs, until such time as the required build machinery can be. From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2022 06:24:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Glenn Morris Cc: larsi@gnus.org, jonas@bernoul.li, p.stephani2@gmail.com, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.164507902720191 (code B ref 53316); Thu, 17 Feb 2022 06:24:01 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Feb 2022 06:23:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49875 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nKaCh-0005Fa-3G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2022 01:23:47 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49936) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nKaCf-0005FM-SX for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 17 Feb 2022 01:23:46 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=43068 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nKaCZ-0000a7-Ux; Thu, 17 Feb 2022 01:23:39 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=YE0v2lyXOEn3FPeRZPdseyfuWM+hf0YvVC4xP+ccaLA=; b=VsujzzoPteSe 6kuz1oARSYN3Tur3r6cEao5spSXQCxvLBI0V5TDSmjElMKEtnBX+ykOD8L5Y7pmu4nVmPT7OyDlwu bQl3muFlsMGR6wOgSCBcL8OGwyED6eXLF+ZpK1wbPEXGRxtKzMxw2uk5098PX0oYlHVC2LXHIxRIB 0krUkbfjrt/0csEoYleB4U/DSt7uW/LvT368x97vFHe0FRxwZJUj5z6QKSj3Z7vl4xHs2W1rPauzA Dbe/eQEQIgCoudjPzeggm3N046Pw9vAREHHqMMQg/hu6Hes4u01JlQPOrgnoJ/6RTXnF9Mn5bSn3i YfX3nar3K48Xhts1cU4URw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2677 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nKaCU-000312-HY; Thu, 17 Feb 2022 01:23:36 -0500 Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2022 08:23:40 +0200 Message-Id: <83r182105v.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <6ar182selo.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (message from Glenn Morris on Wed, 16 Feb 2022 16:09:39 -0500) References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> <87tuczdcqo.fsf@bernoul.li> <6ar182selo.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Glenn Morris > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2022 16:09:39 -0500 > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , > Philipp Stephani , 53316@debbugs.gnu.org > > > And I don't think it makes sense to add the org file if some of the > > code needed to produce the texi file are not available inside Emacs. > > Eli would just have had to fix many more issues manually. > > Then IMO this manual should not be distributed with Emacs, until such > time as the required build machinery can be. That's IMNSHO an extremist POV with which I cannot disagree more. It's tantamount to saying that if we have a bug in Emacs, we cannot make a release until we fix it. As long as we are working on this issue, and intend to eventually provide the Org source in the distribution, I see no reason to remove the manual from the distribution. The Texinfo source will be in the tarball, can be used to make changes in the manual, and after my extensive changes one can no longer say that Texinfo is not the real source anyway. We should strive to fix the issues with generating the manual from Org on master, before Emacs 29 is released. Jonas, if you need any help with that, please holler. From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2022 04:58:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, jonas@bernoul.li, p.stephani2@gmail.com, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.16452466745365 (code B ref 53316); Sat, 19 Feb 2022 04:58:02 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Feb 2022 04:57:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56678 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nLHof-0001OT-RA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2022 23:57:54 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51696) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nLHod-0001OE-M1 for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Feb 2022 23:57:52 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=47296 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nLHoY-0004Ws-1f; Fri, 18 Feb 2022 23:57:46 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=5EHGbtuo4XcjT2Nu/2ueZLByPF4RM7JxS7/VQtlq22w=; b=W7fCYc0WNfTc JXFgZ6G7E7g8VdeP6jS1y4AQdGvO2kRpsxDOTVRSpVL4SiUOJ5AdzHtfE2Ua1LT86H7zBSIbI3Mpi tta+LY1U9j6iFFgh6y2ZhTIDmP3J3Xh/euX/PJ0bjeNCozCDhlyUTAkYQtkY4rOneE9gtq5BFDTX1 vbB9WtU3B0av7w0Xjs2MtcgZcRXq45AxtwXDl7V7jinLHEqwlxhaIKuB/W8z4uXPQmElwyIDyPxZi +smEhz+aUv7i1d2th9iRvd2iwHrHIAjLKb7I6hqs9BNQRQRBabPU13xrbjtXuTx+E2bb9RU+uv3fm 6tOr+9UWhhO4Z7DL14A65Q==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nLHoU-0007Qd-De; Fri, 18 Feb 2022 23:57:42 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <83r182105v.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Thu, 17 Feb 2022 08:23:40 +0200) References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> <87tuczdcqo.fsf@bernoul.li> <6ar182selo.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83r182105v.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2022 23:57:42 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] Would someone please post a review of what this issue is about? I have not been following it -- I thought it was a technical issue and assumed people would find a good solution -- but now it seems maybe it goes beyond the level of technical. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:47:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org Cc: rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, jonas@bernoul.li, p.stephani2@gmail.com, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.164526041330877 (code B ref 53316); Sat, 19 Feb 2022 08:47:01 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Feb 2022 08:46:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56833 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nLLOH-00081x-2x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2022 03:46:53 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58926) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nLLOF-00081k-99 for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2022 03:46:51 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=50370 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nLLO6-0001f4-GH; Sat, 19 Feb 2022 03:46:44 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=a0oSW3mWdq44bvbRAKvVkIAtDE7fKUzXByL8tx9aoq4=; b=G1/lNSMfzWJT gHqieN8fTevJH8U9Ld0rqC0Q7GdITlfqyG5cjIeD1/+qaD6rmaxTusxulwF9JO2hSxKE2NrDLf1Tk 9FPn1pLvaLAjfN1OmbfeUBMEyjliz2eRX3LrHvP3B6+23izRLCrFdIRL9GBusK448M05anWS1ObFI 6f/trk9YEhLCvNKNI5FYPBXM20tiubqNMxdB3xAgfp6PY4XLEk/POT5af/Lt69Wwf6A3E4lMrSM+j qi7uzjj0Z23rnX7eEofgQMILxHF27J2cnKfQBJZzqYrE+4C8s9ro1Ily6yyEYwY3OgtO/NaCmLJZz hQ37uRQ/vcZPnD3xKrBHrw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3239 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nLLNt-0001D7-Cy; Sat, 19 Feb 2022 03:46:29 -0500 Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:46:28 +0200 Message-Id: <83k0drz1jv.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Fri, 18 Feb 2022 23:57:42 -0500) References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> <87tuczdcqo.fsf@bernoul.li> <6ar182selo.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83r182105v.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Richard Stallman > Cc: rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, jonas@bernoul.li, > p.stephani2@gmail.com, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2022 23:57:42 -0500 > > Would someone please post a review of what this issue is about? > I have not been following it -- I thought it was a technical issue > and assumed people would find a good solution -- but now it seems > maybe it goes beyond the level of technical. The original sources for this manual are in Org, but the program that produces Texinfo from the Org original has problems that need to be resolved before we can include the Org sources in the Emacs release tarball. The Org sources themselves also have several issues. The current Texinfo sources in the repository were heavily edited to solve many problems in the original version converted from Org to Texinfo, and that is how we intend to distribute that in Emacs 28.1. Work continues on solving the problems in the Org sources and in the conversion programs, with the goal of switching to the Org sources when this job is done to our satisfaction. I think having this manual, with all its deficiencies and issues, in the Emacs 28 tarball is better than not having any manual. Transient is a very non-trivial package, and I believe it would be impossible for users to use it without a decent manual. From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Glenn Morris Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2022 09:28:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Richard Stallman Cc: p.stephani2@gmail.com, Eli Zaretskii , jonas@bernoul.li, larsi@gnus.org, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.16452628602370 (code B ref 53316); Sat, 19 Feb 2022 09:28:01 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Feb 2022 09:27:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56889 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nLM1k-0000cA-24 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2022 04:27:40 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48838) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nLM1i-0000bw-EZ for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2022 04:27:38 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=54616 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nLM1c-0001ky-CX; Sat, 19 Feb 2022 04:27:32 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To: From; bh=2YGZqQTCWO4SFeFgVGbz9HkTIDLxxxP2W6V+Osx3mC8=; b=g2GACA9bvgCkc3OWpnLV W3dWLMAmB4U3No/AOfhmGzN4ku2bzVofVgBg9KIkHrBL1c8kVusRTMFl5sIImNV8N23He5q61zT/2 jlXTe8EULZrOQdLcMChlj86ojzggl1Bd0HKgNZQ6937vc1a2hTDyi4IHUrFd+aas38b7H0T7hxAA8 GjuCuciEDyusTOEtT7eEnbLoj9aVkvELlcSiB1lrp/jWFrLFu1B6En5e9bhxH8Kqv75QUh7l25yBd xcHp5bWx0cB8GG24fBB310nBXQWBtG255iiqq6HC3opDwcxySrLDhqT8U7ullMjbMlMmbLP868eNl r3abIakAxL5GFg==; Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nLM1X-00041l-KA; Sat, 19 Feb 2022 04:27:29 -0500 From: Glenn Morris References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> <87tuczdcqo.fsf@bernoul.li> <6ar182selo.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83r182105v.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spook: SSCI SADF Secure Internet BART Majic Attorney General X-Ran: ^s6?gMkA{;lRpO1ki|-[1,%DwL%iyrL (Richard Stallman's message of "Fri, 18 Feb 2022 23:57:42 -0500") Message-ID: <66mtin2olc.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) My summary would be: Transient is an Emacs library developed externally to Emacs. A copy has now been added to Emacs for Emacs 28. (I assume there is no intent to move development to Emacs.) It has a manual written in Org format. The Texinfo file is automatically generated from that Org source. Originally the Transient manual was not in Emacs at all. Now the generated Texinfo file has been added to Emacs, but not the original Org source. I previously reported a similar case as Subject: bug#45143: Missing source for some doc/misc manuals? for the manuals for Org and Modus Themes. You commented in several messages in Feb 2021, such as Message-Id: Message-Id: Since the generated transient.texi file was added to Emacs, it has been manually edited, because, as was already known, Texi-generated-from-Org isn't as good as hand-written Texi. (I assume there is no intent for the upstream Transient to switch its manual from being written in Org to being written in Texinfo, in the same way that neither Org nor Modus Themes did.) To resolve bug#45143, I implemented Make machinery in Emacs to generate .texi files for those manuals from their Org sources. (Sadly these changes were not included in Emacs 27.2, so that release does not IMO include the preferred form for the Org manual.) Apparently generating transient.texi from transient.org requires some changes to Org itself, which currently only exist in upstream Org, not in Emacs master or release branch. So it isn't possible to generate the texi file for this package with just the Emacs sources. From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 04:35:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, jonas@bernoul.li, p.stephani2@gmail.com, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.164541808815134 (code B ref 53316); Mon, 21 Feb 2022 04:35:01 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Feb 2022 04:34:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34495 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nM0PP-0003w2-Lf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2022 23:34:47 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45848) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nM0PO-0003vq-56 for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2022 23:34:46 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=42402 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nM0PI-00046l-5n; Sun, 20 Feb 2022 23:34:40 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=f37ZXyka9b2hlld690rjUeFoBeMq+QHz0xGHCzxV/A8=; b=RBqmbfrkxHhy UBAVhl56odzrITwNC2GaS8UOyx2TlP1UorAwahMqqlpE+MzwFzQ3VHuci4F+VEa8kmHMdkcHU28+l +BfqfSfAIFrLVDKv/aVt4m6Tm53/rD4jr8ftZGlDivkQqQ3yleqxN2Xlq9z9gAA4QjLmiMq+sMxok jDSz3zTY2zYRKIwbhW9tRQh4yxCegThbJ+9Nd8NZbwRxMQjX/4/A0dJkEQ0RrZ4N5ZXinUb/r+LNy pl7/A0apkrRHzakcdeD/JdDzluNxd2EZVj0Zk2h1UAtuXv9gGOZsB+6DOBZ5dhLBXIOlzXrHSSoq1 xZs0RDvRfreONUWFs4pBfQ==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nM0PH-0008IM-ST; Sun, 20 Feb 2022 23:34:39 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <83k0drz1jv.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Sat, 19 Feb 2022 10:46:28 +0200) References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> <87tuczdcqo.fsf@bernoul.li> <6ar182selo.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83r182105v.fsf@gnu.org> <83k0drz1jv.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 23:34:39 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > The original sources for this manual are in Org, but the program that > produces Texinfo from the Org original has problems that need to be > resolved before we can include the Org sources in the Emacs release > tarball. The Org sources themselves also have several issues. Thanks. Now I understand the problem. > The current Texinfo sources in the repository were heavily edited to > solve many problems in the original version converted from Org to > Texinfo, and that is how we intend to distribute that in Emacs 28.1. That's not a solution. To distribute a compiled form of anything without its real source code would violate our principles. Furthermore, anyone who redistributes that Emacs release would likewise be distributing a compiled form of this manual without its real source code -- and since perse would not be the copyright holder, that would violate the license. We must not do that. What could we do instead? We could distribute this package without its manual. That would be a practical problem, but not a disaster. It is a reasonable option. But we have other options too. Here are some ideas. * Delete Transient from the Emacs 28 release. People can get it from the separately released Org mode. * Fork the manual, making a version for which the Texinfo form is the real source that we edit. That version can be included in Emacs 28. This forkage would be a practical problem, but not a disaster. * Write a converter to generate that manual's Org-format source from the Texinfo form. Then the Texinfo form will be the real source code, and we can include it both in Emacs and in the Org release. This way, there will be no practical problem, only the inconvenience of editing that manual in Texinfo rather than some other source format. I suspect that automatically converting Org format to Texinfo format gives bad Texinfo output. Texinfo has many different markup constructs to make visual distinctions in the text. Consider @samp, @code, @kbd, @dfn, @emph, @var. @file, @url, and more. How does Org format express those distinctions? I fear the answer is, "It doesn't." I would be glad to find that that problem has been fixed. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 05:48:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org, Richard Stallman Cc: rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, jonas@bernoul.li, p.stephani2@gmail.com, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.16454224686938 (code B ref 53316); Mon, 21 Feb 2022 05:48:01 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Feb 2022 05:47:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34561 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nM1Y3-0001np-IS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2022 00:47:47 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40300) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nM1Y1-0001n7-VU for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2022 00:47:46 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=44074 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nM1Xv-000840-Mr; Mon, 21 Feb 2022 00:47:40 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To:From: Date; bh=xUjDpup7xgfbYfd1HQJ0kHiYhWBaxkpFfjSLhIy1ZAI=; b=BpbQcU8d77VFQeb9qOGR yTMB8A4NV4v34LjGKbhFjTFBwMVBwE78mMj6RqDJEAy7XWj6+9jvEiKUtRN36PenPgAZMN+vhc7Kg 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mQENBF+pf4UBCAC6vjkWLSAsQpe8YIGKLQzNOJx/IjGtCdFF8uzmO5jmME+SD8ROuJN+t5KXVw58 uzu75EFD0vHTY9e+udJ2gkpuy0NnzkFcbumdLLo2ERKCoSctZZRhzKXI5z5cHxCqW0B2ygHRrRLt oNlGID7bAgcgSViT1ptGqTXO7zGVu4Airok7dNzcPtHgns8GlR5YAFX0TvE6oGd0l2VPghNeVJKJ OjrbfhoDxl3ucFpqbqMH8z9HTLDOFpz8UaYYUdJMi3xX6vwTZxI2sM2RRVLUpZyllAkSMI4lln1O OgazM/62DJUs/rKIHKBnF6h3/qsJUjUYXaAHbrXY26mWllAd536lABEBAAG0I0VsaSBaYXJldHNr aWkgKGVsaXopIDxlbGl6QGdudS5vcmc+iQE4BBMBAgAiBQJfqX+FAhsDBgsJCAcDAgYVCAIJCgsE FgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRCRwSYvAeuNOYUQB/4/iIKKOG45ijNaRoTvmJJZMvj1S07WQxEm7c5SHEeE QbLOAxB9vESOV7sLueuN3oqEndtzyYt4x1WTSBmHFF7h5fcCMjBs41siOIp5Sj/xD0Bvaa0IKGCR SZ7PAo8Mq3wgajXpTpn9vxE2PmtzA8KdEE0K1+f9pVAfOpUIcCl44rIxLUW352XG0y7iz6c/O6LB 1deOKMiKFctKO7pBti1dJEm1ImewLH3H8uTbwspLOs3EB8xhsESxmTidnze68HX2jt+2EeMgCdki NU+LWbexQZPfIS7+ZmE06ll0v6+Jy7ZdTkCCRypKWTnW7pIFsq/p4kybV8O/kHSV6B4vvQBfuQEN BF+pf4UBCACvFrdx/m22lgObypSmSS4TNlNvQnMUorrMmp0U32hv5adt6CKXeMjk05F+GcIfVMrp xqMBn4sEUIXWhhogQJa9ZbWEP/HbS8XjMMbz0Q0Siaty9+DSspK/9u2GWKsz3uQzLCexIJtzmXvj AVmvoMCAU/F2t038ggygjYLRgyLRNLgbbartu2dMkvrfxRjheip60S4S3utOcwUf/qdoa1grNann CFluHr/ftXCeeuGB4H8iO0BXWNby6NZPizxJttx9gdcH8/OmDOJkXyRMTT/3sSem76CSOjfXcz7s aJlg680NQhG5TmuYERjJD4+U02K5RuqTsEnOuWeFy4p+/mslABEBAAGJATYEGAECAAkFAl+pf4UC GwwAIQkQkcEmLwHrjTkWIQTmyQKcNjrUHXh6jruRwSYvAeuNOejsB/9rVegsfEBSRLjeeYXyJrOf dme7BYpYsQCw2vGTnrJTGFQ9HM2zT9+wAENBHWjQPJOptJwo5w4xIbZgwJy0uIN3sV18xbCRSxX0 ZSk8GJG0PrQTCaf2xs0kqsShnkvqyo5QSyUlFUAG7m1o7NUhF95Q89oxGO8JyvR356kqNbzUn0Cq PxKyS42QfC8dyFNgVhVPbZp6aONnUwY5SbtCLJtZCBgvppI9XaBH41BDukSE4GgSLoYsSIGShg4h e+bGypAsGtQ9uwmryUi1gRrDgca3wFo/G0rbJn2ZKoLbGFZivWPVgAgd9/O5sLSPFznOdcRGxEA2 gk7A1ReaJ10PtQz0 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On February 21, 2022 6:34:39 AM GMT+02:00, Richard Stallman = wrote: >=20 > > The original sources for this manual are in Org, but the program tha= t > > produces Texinfo from the Org original has problems that need to be > > resolved before we can include the Org sources in the Emacs release > > tarball=2E The Org sources themselves also have several issues=2E >=20 > Thanks=2E Now I understand the problem=2E >=20 > > The current Texinfo sources in the repository were heavily edited to > > solve many problems in the original version converted from Org to > > Texinfo, and that is how we intend to distribute that in Emacs 28=2E= 1=2E >=20 > That's not a solution=2E It is IMNSHO a sufficient stopgap while we are working on a better solutio= n=2E It actually coincides with one of the alternatives for our course of = action that you describe below=2E > We must not do that=2E What could we do instead? >=20 > We could distribute this package without its manual=2E That would be a > practical problem, but not a disaster=2E It is a reasonable option=2E > But we have other options too=2E Here are some ideas=2E >=20 > * Delete Transient from the Emacs 28 release=2E People can get it from > the separately released Org mode=2E Transient is not just a manual, Transient is an Emacs Lisp package, which = is used in Emacs=2E Removing its manual is only acceptable to me if we als= o remove the package and all its uses=2E That sounds drastic and unnecessa= ry=2E > * Fork the manual, making a version for which the Texinfo form is the > real source that we edit=2E That version can be included in Emacs 28= =2E > This forkage would be a practical problem, but not a disaster=2E This is what we did, in effect=2E The Texinfo sources were heavily edited= , and diverged significantly from the results of conversion from Org=2E > * Write a converter to generate that manual's Org-format source from > the Texinfo form=2E Then the Texinfo form will be the real source > code, and we can include it both in Emacs and in the Org release=2E > This way, there will be no practical problem, only the inconvenience > of editing that manual in Texinfo rather than some other source > format=2E The converter exists, but has problems that need to be resolved before the= results could be acceptable=2E We hope this will be done in the future, a= nd will allow us to use the Org sources instead of Texinfo=2E > I suspect that automatically converting Org format to Texinfo format > gives bad Texinfo output=2E Texinfo has many different markup > constructs to make visual distinctions in the text=2E Consider @samp, > @code, @kbd, @dfn, @emph, @var=2E @file, @url, and more=2E >=20 > How does Org format express those distinctions? I fear the answer > is, "It doesn't=2E" I would be glad to find that that problem > has been fixed=2E Fof future releases, we indeed hope to see the problems of conversion from= Org resolved, and then we can switch to distributing the Org sources inste= ad of Texinfo=2E From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 06:47:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, jonas@bernoul.li, p.stephani2@gmail.com, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.164559878628871 (code B ref 53316); Wed, 23 Feb 2022 06:47:02 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2022 06:46:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43627 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMlPj-0007VJ-Id for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 01:46:26 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39606) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMlPh-0007V5-Mq for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 01:46:14 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=41266 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nMlPQ-0004X6-5U; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 01:46:05 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=3xsW7LNh8QGblYQbilkn3V++bX4J/nVwY1BqvRaptIM=; b=gRktxL/rse85 NEC86CQZaxsq538putT8swLh54dfq4dsS22d4ZDhDxaozpcTx/HCzQDCXaas+Ope+OuIAY6+xLyts E1JQESFN5YaJdr/D/dil+onTmh1cT40Ll0DON/gCtANrg2bFDwT38XCGxmiQ7P+73BchQHYAqzmab 4ANhxModrYDt9WN0/nwcw/cpKXA0MHc7Xs/A6FpJu23AukCoEbSppXqrDAHxcVGfZ4FwoYvmJpwwN vaf3TVXCRXoN9Lxs1dhmAYQGhk4fhjVs3pAnQ44PBEY1XNoM84vWwJBLcCa5UbU5JC+jKKzcMkZie 1CgEBRxawzFgUIMjXGC7SA==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nMlP3-0008Bh-J2; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 01:45:37 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <33A4238A-C948-4A8E-BADB-689142143CED@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Mon, 21 Feb 2022 07:47:29 +0200) References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> <87tuczdcqo.fsf@bernoul.li> <6ar182selo.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83r182105v.fsf@gnu.org> <83k0drz1jv.fsf@gnu.org> <33A4238A-C948-4A8E-BADB-689142143CED@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 01:45:33 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Transient is not just a manual, Transient is an Emacs Lisp package, I know. > Removing its manual is only acceptable to me if we also remove > the package and all its uses. Lots of packages don't have manuals. Indeed, it is undesirable not to have the Texinfo manual, but not a disaster. > > * Fork the manual, making a version for which the Texinfo form is the > > real source that we edit. That version can be included in Emacs 28. > > This forkage would be a practical problem, but not a disaster. > This is what we did, in effect. The Texinfo sources were heavily edited, and diverged significantly from the results of conversion from Org. I see. Well, this is ok, in terms of principles. > The converter exists, but has problems that need to be resolved > before the results could be acceptable. We hope this will be done > in the future, and will allow us to use the Org sources instead of > Texinfo. > Fof future releases, we indeed hope to see the problems of > conversion from Org resolved, That would be a very good advance; but because it's difficult and because I've seen people neglect the issue before, could you ask the people doing this to show me the spec they want to implement? -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Jonas Bernoulli Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:19:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Cc: rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, p.stephani2@gmail.com, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.164561873424298 (code B ref 53316); Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:19:02 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2022 12:18:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44144 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMqbd-0006Jp-Qn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:18:54 -0500 Received: from mail.hostpark.net ([212.243.197.30]:54618) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMqba-0006Jg-Rh for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:18:52 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.hostpark.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71D3B165CB; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:18:49 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=bernoul.li; h= content-type:content-type:mime-version:message-id:date:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:subject:from:from:received :received; s=sel2011a; t=1645618727; bh=t8q48mjTKquuTdQcuS/O0cjk ffMzhTwOHI5DSpAelu8=; b=2DltnOeMzQcoemGLaqndCRPIL/OycZg6mFVn3vHg hhGWMCEihVcVZnfynETmBGf10ABi7xvUBJKt7qheBchTVkMgYrZVQM2mUsjo2+65 vFvRBVR12wuAWgvmuN79LMO59iVMOjWhohyDcYm8piwBftzp4ofzwb7Gw0HDpkHM sR0= X-Virus-Scanned: by Hostpark/NetZone Mailprotection at hostpark.net Received: from mail.hostpark.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail0.hostpark.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10224) with ESMTP id An4uOU6foHvX; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:18:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.hostpark.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3999816BAC; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:18:47 +0100 (CET) From: Jonas Bernoulli In-Reply-To: References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> <87tuczdcqo.fsf@bernoul.li> <6ar182selo.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83r182105v.fsf@gnu.org> <83k0drz1jv.fsf@gnu.org> <33A4238A-C948-4A8E-BADB-689142143CED@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:18:45 +0100 Message-ID: <875yp5epy2.fsf@bernoul.li> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Richard Stallman writes: > That would be a very good advance; but because it's difficult and > because I've seen people neglect the issue before, could you ask > the people doing this to show me the spec they want to implement? The exporter currently can do this and similar: =code= => @code{code} once I am done it will be able to optionally do this and similar: $var$ => @var{var} It will take some time because it has to be implemented in a way that satisfies the Org maintainers. I am also not excited to work on it because I thought I was finally done getting my changes merged into Org, which was a slow and somewhat painful experience. Immediately turns out that no, I have to further improve the exporter. Being asked for a spec is annoying, and so is the assumption that I won't do the work. From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:46:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: rms@gnu.org Cc: rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, jonas@bernoul.li, p.stephani2@gmail.com, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.16456203362937 (code B ref 53316); Wed, 23 Feb 2022 12:46:02 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2022 12:45:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44173 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMr1U-0000lJ-61 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:45:36 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39842) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nMr1S-0000l6-Vq for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:45:35 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=50134 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nMr1M-0008GP-TB; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:45:28 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=CFR2kn2CdfXLQwjh6qjDVZsnXRlPjWJrIJ4Fa8rXb8E=; b=ZXDA28sMVCRA Oc7TKVtTIE0l60UK1KUGx/+mPIr8GKJmKqcgAl3dijvH9KsS/T13GfUpKJ7m4o46Zd3iVlBkKFqYY b8WkJSnm2BVfdoChFbGyPj8xS2rPAICu0xYsFKifaMxMw3vivrfIZiHfsp7u/W6UY5JPmrQO9KV79 A+17UhissRIY1FnFk6YBK2F5xqCs8L9Gwzq5kwbqMtSia88bqbUXlnp9QRdjjxb4zXDqMKMdDHqye MskFnp2b8nJSu0L6Utu1gW6Fu1e1H9BbjHxGDRjW2zwsJhdAgFRUs3ekQYomtE6ngpxJCAWP07jYx YYPKO8lqD/dIrkgmMev0Gw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3429 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nMr19-00038k-CR; Wed, 23 Feb 2022 07:45:22 -0500 Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 14:45:25 +0200 Message-Id: <8335k9u4yi.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Wed, 23 Feb 2022 01:45:33 -0500) References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> <87tuczdcqo.fsf@bernoul.li> <6ar182selo.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83r182105v.fsf@gnu.org> <83k0drz1jv.fsf@gnu.org> <33A4238A-C948-4A8E-BADB-689142143CED@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Richard Stallman > Cc: rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, jonas@bernoul.li, > p.stephani2@gmail.com, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2022 01:45:33 -0500 > > > Removing its manual is only acceptable to me if we also remove > > the package and all its uses. > > Lots of packages don't have manuals. Indeed, it is undesirable not to > have the Texinfo manual, but not a disaster. It is in this case, IMO. I suggest that you take a quick look at transient.el and consider whether it is easy to grasp without a decent manual. My firm opinion is that it is very hard for the uninitiated. > > For future releases, we indeed hope to see the problems of > > conversion from Org resolved, > > That would be a very good advance; but because it's difficult and > because I've seen people neglect the issue before, could you ask > the people doing this to show me the spec they want to implement? Jonas explicitly said he is working on this, so I find it hard to believe that this won't be solved soon enough, worst case in time for Emacs 29. From unknown Tue Jun 17 22:30:09 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53316: 28.0.91; Missing Transient manual in Emacs Resent-From: Richard Stallman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 05:02:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53316 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Jonas Bernoulli Cc: p.stephani2@gmail.com, rgm@gnu.org, eliz@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, 53316@debbugs.gnu.org Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Received: via spool by 53316-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53316.164576526715689 (code B ref 53316); Fri, 25 Feb 2022 05:02:02 +0000 Received: (at 53316) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2022 05:01:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51040 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nNSj5-00044y-GK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 00:01:07 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60932) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nNSj3-00044M-PA for 53316@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 00:01:06 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=57176 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nNSin-0000le-KU; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 00:01:00 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=W1EAToOTYCS1JocqJZxatbrJkmSvnf1HxpTci1fdqWA=; b=cK2eNvCilBbm mV27tI1vdeTpoj3DU2sEtEdXaSzDrVbwZtbHTqqUodw07MCy7V1sbDxSN55tscSjFDi/UnYbCHQ1l D5YTZb9EaTde6QAYRwZoIzfImT5V4ylEciPfzQ9MlyFJ15IgLDamJlbRS/yFAmQbNwmjkOabLvzgb IphV9xup1d202KhWWFH/ya+T7324Hl8CT9PQQ6DYEmtilyAMqHGeFocHvsUajEk5cSRxph9Ak1uAD m+hQ/9QeieUORvJ7JBVu3GIs1N1zq0Nfn5NJsVE44C+89Is8Xy32N7i3fMt32xkfiboM32UDtMnmY ExFdDHfqTDN6DK51iM3RBA==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nNSii-0006Tr-4Q; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 00:00:48 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <875yp5epy2.fsf@bernoul.li> (message from Jonas Bernoulli on Wed, 23 Feb 2022 13:18:45 +0100) References: <87o845s4xv.fsf@gnus.org> <87iltgcbqx.fsf@bernoul.li> <87tuczdcqo.fsf@bernoul.li> <6ar182selo.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83r182105v.fsf@gnu.org> <83k0drz1jv.fsf@gnu.org> <33A4238A-C948-4A8E-BADB-689142143CED@gnu.org> <875yp5epy2.fsf@bernoul.li> Message-Id: Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 00:00:44 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > The exporter currently can do this and similar: > =code= => @code{code} > once I am done it will be able to optionally do this and similar: > $var$ => @var{var} That syntax is convenient to use, but hard to extend to cover all the Texinfo markup facilities. There are LOTS of them. > Being asked for a spec is annoying, and so is the assumption that I > won't do the work. Please don't take it personally. It's not about you. Designing the interface is the hardest part of this, and other efforts have ended up in a dead end. What's hard is finding syntax for so many markup constructs. I don't think the simple approach with one punctuation character can handle it. Also, Texinfo markup constructs nest. I have seen systems inspired by markdown that were meant to be used for manuals. Each one handled only a subset of the jobs that Texinfo markup constructs do. The markup approach is so limiting that it doesn't offer much room for syntax for a greater number of constructs. I've found that people tend to implement a subset, and it is easy to find usable syntax for a small number of constructs. But there is no natural way to extend it to do the whole job. In effect, doing this for a subset "first", expecting to add the others later, means a risk of ending up in a dead end. I'm sure you will finish this job, if you start with a plan for handling all the markup constructs. Have you got a list of Texinfo constructs to support? If there is no way Org format can handle the repertoire of constructs that we want for our manuals, we should not use Org format for the source for a manual. We should use Texinfo format. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 07 18:04:08 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jun 2022 22:04:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41779 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nyhJ2-0000XO-DV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jun 2022 18:04:08 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f178.google.com ([209.85.214.178]:41795) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nyhJ0-0000WH-OQ for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jun 2022 18:04:07 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f178.google.com with SMTP id s14so15967339plk.8 for ; Tue, 07 Jun 2022 15:04:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=U45rAAfI+L2MJhLp/ZkahyvhnA9LZiLcqPP/yI26l7E=; b=uMvhnqgtueihE65NZYSu3chypkNCFvlKvbkR3ywLJUwH64zcjI+M3a7K56S8iwkK4C NHy30zZ854/NNEa7sxxZMj15NTyfvsq8g6eNZ2+YnDRQtsQjumwgrJlkQg3dLSjI/O7i Dj4gleZgr5dNwgEaeZnOxzaPdmFbpCVt+u+fQICwqj39ZEYeEqZvF2A5ZJfHn/8CNHUg M+3N8rqdbIhDjGhttFvWYDDTkN6C3ZpKnF2GyXIAHt79LpznEdcBwgvAmFGu7f0rktH0 YbT35o0nJsQO08iSGIPb+tQBQ+oXCXVvfQHFc1vPdf6w+0soyX76jW40qqZ/5ZSofXcV s/SA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532QeTYYFeii9XNRZhW60/wkrGXic94t3g66sCovSI6TAKUiNYll OSTInY/d4e8lbbK4grkgajHucd1FUSbSQlxIXW2ulU1Y X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJysy9fqsOKfgNc/FwLUmqg4yUZ7YfH0Ig9c3VgzPXADfNJdacWMsTjsvE5Pw9SlXas/FadomXGT6vF5SGk8A5M= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b18e:b0:15e:c6ac:440a with SMTP id s14-20020a170902b18e00b0015ec6ac440amr31383997plr.152.1654639440996; Tue, 07 Jun 2022 15:04:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 7 Jun 2022 17:04:00 -0500 From: Stefan Kangas MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2022 17:04:00 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: control message for bug #53316 To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) severity 53316 wishlist quit