From unknown Wed Jun 18 23:06:52 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#53207 <53207@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#53207 <53207@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection Reply-To: bug#53207 <53207@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2025 06:06:52 +0000 retitle 53207 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection reassign 53207 emacs submitter 53207 "Jay Berkenbilt" severity 53207 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 12 09:30:51 2022 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2022 14:30:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56533 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7eeI-0008LQ-SM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 09:30:51 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:55360) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7eeG-0008LE-DE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Wed, 12 Jan 2022 09:30:38 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-4569-g891f756243-fm-20220111.001-g891f7562 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 09:30:07 -0500 From: "Jay Berkenbilt" To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.19; envelope-from=ejb@ql.org; helo=wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-CC: ejb@ql.org This bug is reproducible with emacs -Q. emacs 28.0.91 and emacs-27.2, with -Q, behave identically and correctly in the following scenario: * outside of emacs: rm /tmp/a; echo one > /tmp/a * In a fresh emacs -Q, C-x C-f /tmp/a * outside of emacs: touch /tmp/a * In /tmp/a in emacs, it is possible to edit the file freely and save, which is correct since the contents have not changed * In /tmp/a in emacs, save any changes * outside of emacs: echo test >> /tmp/a * In /tmp/a in emacs: try editing and get an immediate prompt that the file has changed. With emacs 27.2, (setq create-lockfiles nil) does not change the above behavior. With emacs 28.0.91, (setq create-lockfiles nil) results in the following changes in behavior: * outside of emacs: rm /tmp/a; echo one > /tmp/a * In a fresh emacs -Q, C-x C-f /tmp/a * outside of emacs: touch /tmp/a * In /tmp/a in emacs, it is possible to edit the file freely, but **SAVING THE FILE RESULTS IN A PROMPT** (a has changed since visited or saved...) even though the *contents* of the file have not changed (only its modification time) * Say no to the prompt and M-x revert-buffer, accepting the prompt to revert the modified buffer * outside of emacs: echo test >> /tmp/a * In /tmp/a in emacs: try editing. **NO PROMPT IS GIVEN; EDITING CAN BE DONE FREELY** * Try to save the file. Get the "a has changed since visited or saved" prompt at this time Bottom line: in emacs 27.2, setting create-lockfiles to nil does not change the behavior. In emacs 28.0.91, it does. I also noticed this in 28.0.90 but hadn't had time to figure out how to reproduce it without my customizations. I saw 'lock-file-name-transforms' in NEWS. I disable create-lockfiles because I never run emacs on a multi-user system with my default settings, and the dangling symlinks confuse too many systems. It may be that, if emacs-major-version is >= 28, I can use lock-file-name-transforms to cause lock files to save in a separate directory, but I find that I don't need lockfiles at all with the default behavior of emacs 27 and 28 regarding change detection, at least my on Ubuntu platform. Is this change intentional? If so, can I configure something to go back to the old behavior? It seems like a bug to me -- I don't see why create-lockfiles should have anything to do with this behavior, and it did not in 27.2. I've been running gnu emacs since version 18 in 1987 and have seen the evolution of lock files over time. I was euphoric when emacs started being able to notice when an update to a file's modification time didn't change its contents. It makes it so much easier to do things like git rebase, which I do many times a day. Thanks. The text below came from M-x report-emacs-bug on emacs-28.0.91 -Q In GNU Emacs 28.0.91 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.20, cairo version 1.16.0) of 2022-01-12 built on jblin Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12013000 System Description: Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS Configured using: 'configure --prefix=/usr/local/emacs-28.0.91' Configured features: ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GPM GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG LCMS2 LIBOTF LIBSELINUX LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 M17N_FLT MODULES NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS X11 XDBE XIM XPM GTK3 ZLIB Important settings: value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Lisp Interaction Minor modes in effect: tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t eldoc-mode: t show-paren-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t indent-tabs-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message rmc puny dired dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml mml-sec epa derived epg rfc6068 epg-config gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddefs auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs eieio-loaddefs password-cache json map text-property-search time-date subr-x seq byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile cconv mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader cl-loaddefs cl-lib sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils iso-transl tooltip eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray cl-preloaded nadvice button loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting cairo move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 51426 5400) (symbols 48 6608 1) (strings 32 18372 1964) (string-bytes 1 610917) (vectors 16 14475) (vector-slots 8 191331 9434) (floats 8 21 35) (intervals 56 200 0) (buffers 992 10)) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 12 12:26:38 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2022 17:26:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58900 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7hOQ-0008Ce-AM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 12:26:38 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52018) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7hOJ-0008Bu-Ih for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 12:26:37 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=52266 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n7hOE-0007lC-6u; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 12:26:26 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=vyb3om+0rUGp8fRH84+ElZ1JYUZ/XH/M2jgM+8gbqUE=; b=sDXHhKBhUAlb S6vVfKl9Flrdaasixps3hu74B8azLQvGU4pMiaIESN4FamXZNVtzW0/F9H+NYwrwHd9Gn2796JxAD ng+pnVpHUO2dHatoL/mtY4hDEuApwd5Lxi1giQjeK0fx058J+Z0bIU68+lY7BOA8rr7y134bRAEbu KfRzVz+cS7o2WF2rXqW6rKd2gdTeBGBsVAx3OtITEPDY5HFocj0nWNpBkRyZOmEufsjl/tkOwDU84 OfxhJQxUANDp1KsHPbRf2pZXh3JHVU8SetH6Zl0GaUL9Bt0chzSbbALCyEpRe7kMCl9K75hgJ8eOa 8qdEmHUt61/XFQyv6WL0Gw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2961 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n7hOE-0006s2-5W; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 12:26:26 -0500 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 19:26:22 +0200 Message-Id: <83bl0g6f29.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: "Jay Berkenbilt" In-Reply-To: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> (ejb@ql.org) Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 09:30:07 -0500 > From: "Jay Berkenbilt" > > Bottom line: in emacs 27.2, setting create-lockfiles to nil does not change the behavior. In emacs 28.0.91, it does. I also noticed this in 28.0.90 but hadn't had time to figure out how to reproduce it without my customizations. You seem to assume that create-lockfiles is _only_ about the creation of the lockfiles. But that's not true: the variable is a misnomer, and it actually controls the entire functionality of preventing editing collisions. Including the test for the file being modified behind Emacs's back. The doc string says: Non-nil means use lockfiles to avoid editing collisions. > Is this change intentional? If so, can I configure something to go > back to the old behavior? My suggestion is to stop setting create-lockfiles to a nil value. Why is the non-nil value a problem? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 12 13:14:13 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2022 18:14:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59053 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7i8T-00080l-Mb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 13:14:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40448) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7i8R-00080S-Ps for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 13:14:12 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=53454 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n7i7x-0007xp-Az; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 13:14:02 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To: From; bh=e3GPU3HnjrnwIJwTIEsXhK46BxwmBNmU0LL7+XAw0lo=; b=pdpN9Vdn9PGH7GNzE4pH zVfqTyAarQDK+gFaMMiZi8O5e4PnV/iVXoxCyl1697awJtsgRbjRNW06lyk6LCbdQQaf5Cxh9v7ih glhhpty7uhtsSgTH3sh/oXvrcnGApMfejtCrngYFtAvk7ROeI3ByeKjqi05zs7u0eIS2Tfxr+VKWt IwBTHsIsc9PJsSVKpFiWstOTY5BgqSmnU5SvaqceElwVxv9e/lqaDm/Gl2u93o8Yr4weru1K266+m 63MbaKW7PoO3bJGro2A0Sv9OENjHXRdpKLq83bnTfIKrMZMY/ddhtovNPWlNhcxeUEMpw7a7vpvbg QIFtQl3WaR3unw==; Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n7i7w-0005T3-Mi; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 13:13:40 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: "Jay Berkenbilt" Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> X-Spook: Marxist White Water Matamoros DSD Arellano-Felix Toxic X-Ran: *VG*U<9EG.'w:Fwa\;xm2X;yYC{#@VDOm*m0:=-,W\G\WzeF<*!#Dav^%1@@f]=#`-0}*U X-Hue: white X-Attribution: GM Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 13:13:40 -0500 In-Reply-To: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> (Jay Berkenbilt's message of "Wed, 12 Jan 2022 09:30:07 -0500") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: michael.albinus@gmx.de, 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Probably a consequence of 9ce6541ac9, specifically: * src/filelock.c (lock_file): Don't check create_lockfiles. which would seem to mean that ask-user-about-supersession-threat is no longer called when create-lockfiles is nil. Was this intentional? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 12 13:41:21 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2022 18:41:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59080 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7iYi-0000No-SK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 13:41:21 -0500 Received: from mail-oo1-f49.google.com ([209.85.161.49]:36781) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7iYh-0000Na-Dp for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 13:41:19 -0500 Received: by mail-oo1-f49.google.com with SMTP id k15-20020a4a850f000000b002dc3cdb0256so921436ooh.3 for <53207@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 10:41:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=GNEchisQNuJHwlD3cQZxsswwgBZCga8D2z2Wllu3Fu0=; b=lYV/AZhC/3Rc5ywTkLqSeI2UT+VlbtgAMFkicaKNvTViyhy/Iw4Tdx/nvZ8nKHL69Q YGIRHKeD3sMwxLcS43e3hxvdhPq6evRLII47PO+tOy8bw07issw1dvpSXpnQKCda4wOH zDcCycZZ0wT5UtLVEKfETAki/wLJ2QBFW0EnEFLxl8owUBS0hM0pEUOZDyavY8xYNoAx T3Fl4YTtZBV10zi8pXJTDsVa/beN4kmCkRCswyHay/7dKlEk7xbIt4w4+HFRFA+Dp5RW FMy9L+YJKGr3EYk3d9fHpteh7pSBo8u8ofdGu/a+6R+c4+jBR5zN3m/QRwY4MuHE7R01 1hxA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=GNEchisQNuJHwlD3cQZxsswwgBZCga8D2z2Wllu3Fu0=; b=VbkkaKOUgMzKVWQrp0SqiLxba9enGYbSVpDKQAH4vckRH8vY7wwYiPNRmNjEQ6obrz eXC+wv/FKh2lKj1upId6rOZivtEKSzA6GGmQLhEBvwNgqnNuACzIqzmuXJTY+/zYO011 AKHAo5bD8+QqtUek4cWBwA9FDbv+NTOliEZrAEkwZA2QnOiSonTn7BrWG/SPS2adCOxV JoColK78ygI/zSzKX2gpXszhsLkp1WUtCx/AVANZnlnth9Wvst7LhPLDquoz00MbLdCG kDYyie+pk6uxAicDdk1McLuXq4LOdlPv99s1hBNHv+YqYIVT5h69m0T+GeYgrwudhFBe 8o4w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53291elgztcW2D7TtJS7IAzRZQB4KAZUjFO4+Ad2qarOxa9q1YNA J4U+ee6Pn+R36elLal3HmmPI3XHyuAqUGl+OZhQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwDy1dWat+apRJqc9MfjxSwVAbeDN7re+pAnyLGFZ4VGxRhwG8uutLdARF7DuCIGhlNUjQYjSA/kL7Z4dHAv4o= X-Received: by 2002:a4a:94d3:: with SMTP id l19mr635767ooi.94.1642012873687; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 10:41:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Philipp Stephani Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 19:41:02 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection To: Glenn Morris Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: Jay Berkenbilt , Michael Albinus , 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Am Mi., 12. Jan. 2022 um 19:16 Uhr schrieb Glenn Morris : > > > Probably a consequence of 9ce6541ac9, specifically: > > * src/filelock.c (lock_file): Don't check create_lockfiles. > > which would seem to mean that ask-user-about-supersession-threat > is no longer called when create-lockfiles is nil. > Was this intentional? If it's intentional, then it should at least be documented in NEWS, since it's a pretty big change. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 12 15:08:09 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2022 20:08:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59229 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7jui-00055p-9P for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 15:08:09 -0500 Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.26]:34491) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7juc-00055G-Qs for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 15:08:06 -0500 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id C10725C01D1; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 15:07:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap49 ([10.202.2.99]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 12 Jan 2022 15:07:57 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ql.org; h= mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to:cc :subject:content-type; s=fm3; bh=zbkQ/BR2f0jAV2c5kfAoE7wEghSeg2A KGJO3HohNQXI=; b=CApLDzXecAJpNDMQkUjFSPYaMpK3Eprg9jpQ0cA3Pewlk/O XE7BBmDqM9bujfE62vbgkyXLkJ/1kG6Y7nmxkOezgKJfaZ0f0GId+DId0OuBes3m r98Jzf5+YAR2yR8GOSF4aMMjAVL8njL87WNjIvso4sDGTGXviq0f6L5NTf/RK8S/ GglNOdVvhh/O1D+EiIRLgpeGcTzDL6Xiuna8O961KjApg27muPLc2myArRF6GKxc zTQC8syRtZX/penPQ1OOXfCY7anutibBGQ6okagCnOqbgTuBtn/2l39ppXTfbdii Mnj6I52rf2VKemylBFLutwcmtiOBlgXuwZq8A1g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=zbkQ/B R2f0jAV2c5kfAoE7wEghSeg2AKGJO3HohNQXI=; b=UmZVZ3fN187lWVzQNTvXtv C3VTl6OX9Q19EzB1YqdayEeGL0CGmSHS/N1Ge8SDGfgTu2TiEVu59plMV50pVHgX dHAg95gKeG9r4YjgZTwg2nbNDfHzAxsYx/E0zoTvlEm7MAutO/soEOfdo5aaa5Kb EqBVo9akiQTQ2XmDm0Kv42cBdJBa996lL4mJZaLN5bQCYTE1qKvwiwm0X8HER6QJ YaBP43Ldu4l3jfScHWCLmNNJkDmfXm2Yh4nd9jPdLiFYR/1EI2wQlGj1ZEb38Wv0 Y+2SATcCC9gXpo4oMQj2iqbWkGZhZEOcXXhlsjFq+9sSnDXohglaDJoW1D7t9AGw == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvvddrtddugddutdekucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgesthdtredtreertdenucfhrhhomhepfdflrgih uceuvghrkhgvnhgsihhlthdfuceovghjsgesqhhlrdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrh hnpeehtdevhfefvdffgfeifeduheefhfduhfegfffgffdtveelffehvddvheejffeukeen ucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegvjhgsse hqlhdrohhrgh X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 6B49FF60075; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 15:07:57 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-4569-g891f756243-fm-20220111.001-g891f7562 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3759fdad-fb95-4af8-b2bf-146abb81eb3d@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <83bl0g6f29.fsf@gnu.org> References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83bl0g6f29.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 15:07:32 -0500 From: "Jay Berkenbilt" To: "Eli Zaretskii" Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Wed, Jan 12, 2022, at 12:26 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 09:30:07 -0500 > > From: "Jay Berkenbilt" > > > > Bottom line: in emacs 27.2, setting create-lockfiles to nil does not change the behavior. In emacs 28.0.91, it does. I also noticed this in 28.0.90 but hadn't had time to figure out how to reproduce it without my customizations. > > You seem to assume that create-lockfiles is _only_ about the creation > of the lockfiles. But that's not true: the variable is a misnomer, > and it actually controls the entire functionality of preventing > editing collisions. Including the test for the file being modified > behind Emacs's back. The doc string says: > > Non-nil means use lockfiles to avoid editing collisions. I interpreted this to mean that this was the method of preventing collisions, as opposed to some other method. > > > Is this change intentional? If so, can I configure something to go > > back to the old behavior? > > My suggestion is to stop setting create-lockfiles to a nil value. Why > is the non-nil value a problem? Emacs lockfiles are dangling symbolic links. Some tools and systems don't like those. For example, I was working on a learning project to teach myself modern web development and was using tools that do hot reload, scanning directories for tests. Every time I started editing, it would pick up the lock file and give an error. You could make an argument that it is a bug in the tool, but the cross section of people who live and breathe in emacs and who are working on front-end web development seems to be very small, and there's little incentive for them to add code that ignores dangling symbolic links. Most people consider those to be errors. I get why it's done though -- I have implemented symlink-based lock files myself since they are easier to make atomic, especially when network file systems are in play. But, from a pragmatic standpoint, I don't need them, and I'd like to turn them off, and it used to work and no longer does. This is why I'm testing 28 -- to catch things like this. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 12 15:45:48 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2022 20:45:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59252 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7kVA-00063E-CT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 15:45:48 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45122) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7kV8-000632-J5 for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 15:45:46 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=55874 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n7kV2-0005hr-Mu; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 15:45:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=WH0A7O0QurV8fJvDH0GmHu7HbiWYi47S+NQmx4yI+QY=; b=i/hcgglAszFC 3AsMZEM85R5tDqOCetqBghMS8TjwQqY0BSJmHWurSWzCfQlUzkA68x3hHvnURRvFZwXxJj8tCWRrE DEutFlPyAjVeVfL2c3iFsNcm6FsscYoeAEbpUU6QzzVqe7LcellD94RhiiBxjk8cR4JrYhGyYjYc9 YR9KfTyc9kzSvPcOt+btA1gymlqutKxT5tw3ftZN7senlYCAIDMj0/IABcuzCC9bQle4zKUrDqM8r 77MeSEe3hoVgkTCy5mUlOPtxB5DVmmO1S0XwjmYVPFOVOI4+qIH/SLj1NL5TtqxY2LjLWDeOC4ErA NKipiUdL/gmMh9kTObNpFg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3441 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n7kV2-0003K1-Mg; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 15:45:41 -0500 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 22:45:37 +0200 Message-Id: <83pmow4r9q.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: "Jay Berkenbilt" In-Reply-To: <3759fdad-fb95-4af8-b2bf-146abb81eb3d@www.fastmail.com> (ejb@ql.org) Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83bl0g6f29.fsf@gnu.org> <3759fdad-fb95-4af8-b2bf-146abb81eb3d@www.fastmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 15:07:32 -0500 > From: "Jay Berkenbilt" > Cc: 53207@debbugs.gnu.org > > > My suggestion is to stop setting create-lockfiles to a nil value. Why > > is the non-nil value a problem? > > Emacs lockfiles are dangling symbolic links. Some tools and systems don't > like those. Isn't that the reason we introduced lock-file-name-transforms? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 12 16:35:45 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2022 21:35:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59335 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7lHU-0001DE-La for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 16:35:44 -0500 Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.29]:57847) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7lHS-0001D2-A2 for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 16:35:43 -0500 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AD195C01F8; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 16:35:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap49 ([10.202.2.99]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 12 Jan 2022 16:35:37 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ql.org; h= mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to:cc :subject:content-type; s=fm3; bh=dDNR25ooD+kuxPGxYaksaiW61k7gz5w R7QOFBf3tD8M=; b=k31k2eWgGWJ3Y1rxWdzut8s9+b6HtC3+J8fe4qbb/zkzUPZ GHhEcwqbUtyxQloTFBPFO9rwASSVQ0Yyqc1IaA0CxLJTKMf4Wfssv0+I1a0F8YBI hbIxpc0C0Qk3kehX3kWMFgk+8sgi40axxQExLSd2ul7YfqqnxnxvMrfWbTUYFYcr S6RuZVuc2QPEklEsztLJ5fBAmZfnlsOmfdZywPAEBnddgKi8ztoBWbvHoTm++ow8 KAZ5cwVC/AgVIxATiLumIR+0r6OSZfScVTNngdZ3TmDhXbPglCIhfywZQhgkuFKD SsWFKkbNlP95tswjNJSRuxrEobeekr5oQnExL4Q== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=dDNR25 ooD+kuxPGxYaksaiW61k7gz5wR7QOFBf3tD8M=; b=ZNPQTyzLq5BtZd3xhcrQum NQDPKKq3m90hoIj3/qU4C0+yDd+OKn1ocVftrzU2miCRrOULZ645yI737tDl/Py5 kqL2MTyHgjOejB5/QJTkpA4/8tN+/IP64z6lOhgvrdwCxKUr4B5Q4f6rV76dy1MH 1w6DLPrARg0BJX+eHSwlpbxYRW5ViaQxa4Li5gMS2HiOBNxW5UMWAb7+uQlUcTdC 4+0SyXZTY8m3IB4eyEYwYFzWEbvAVGLhnYSJbv2MNgohN1WUa1otIWDmlRLafp0R 7bYpy42nEXCIfpodtwFsFL/4MaVy0VQc9BZ+tURHk7VnTvbSyHobASeEBG0UbAnw == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvvddrtddugdduvdejucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgesthdtredtreertdenucfhrhhomhepfdflrgih uceuvghrkhgvnhgsihhlthdfuceovghjsgesqhhlrdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrh hnpeehtdevhfefvdffgfeifeduheefhfduhfegfffgffdtveelffehvddvheejffeukeen ucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegvjhgsse hqlhdrohhrgh X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id D73E7F60075; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 16:35:36 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-4569-g891f756243-fm-20220111.001-g891f7562 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <655743d1-b695-4d22-ae21-cf195434a880@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <83pmow4r9q.fsf@gnu.org> References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83bl0g6f29.fsf@gnu.org> <3759fdad-fb95-4af8-b2bf-146abb81eb3d@www.fastmail.com> <83pmow4r9q.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 16:35:15 -0500 From: "Jay Berkenbilt" To: "Eli Zaretskii" Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Wed, Jan 12, 2022, at 3:45 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 15:07:32 -0500 > > From: "Jay Berkenbilt" > > Cc: 53207@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > > My suggestion is to stop setting create-lockfiles to a nil value. Why > > > is the non-nil value a problem? > > > > Emacs lockfiles are dangling symbolic links. Some tools and systems don't > > like those. > > Isn't that the reason we introduced lock-file-name-transforms? Perhaps so, but this misses the point. I am pointing out at there is an undocumented, perhaps undesirable change of behavior that needs to be either fixed or documented. If the change of behavior is intentional, then it should be documented. That said, I think the old behavior made more sense. The old behavior seems to be that setting create-lockfiles to nil just makes emacs stop creating lockfiles. The new behavior seems to be that it does other things as well. It's odd for you to tell me that I shouldn't use an option that is provided, particularly when it used to do exactly what I wanted it to do. All that said, if this is intentional and there is some reason to decrease the functionality of emacs by making it impossible to turn off lockfile creation without this other side effect, then I will add conditional code in my .emacs to turn off lockfiles if (not (boundp 'lock-file-name-transforms)). It just seems strange that emacs is perfectly capable of detecting when a file was changed outside of emacs without a lockfile but doesn't do this check if it's not also creating lockfiles. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 13 01:43:29 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2022 06:43:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59805 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7tpZ-0006V5-JH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 01:43:29 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33072) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7tpW-0006Uk-W2 for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 01:43:28 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=38222 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n7tpR-0007mg-JT; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 01:43:21 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=+QKHmIBbuIkKQG4mXw9oS+L9rTa5BW1tatH1D9UBZwg=; b=AnGyU5IcV6WT FkrdZGcXr6PQYZ9Grl2G0ww6ksjrTiFpO9ayMQvkgyExgp7tkE15TkSg+DeNmJKTD+ka6tBaAwega Putq5Ts0P3+xZ2v89BA7QxWTFp+DXaai6PhI6rsNYQ0y43eNjUKRznoAe4XNKy3SMhgyIDouQuzj6 FFraMA9IxR06gMsGSquAB5+QQVOaN+MAkEWNwtA27aF3laWFYE6hKqZrzl7UXMJMkPPF6hvJFTonB +ySvRUeiNRL+UY6i9xJaAGGegsEbYzJMclR6IoJXkohL9nd0Fjang9zr13d52p52lPubQgoi485GK P1a09coCRzosnW2Fr8Uh0w==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4076 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n7tpN-0001NW-Fh; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 01:43:21 -0500 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:43:14 +0200 Message-Id: <83mtk03zlp.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: "Jay Berkenbilt" In-Reply-To: <655743d1-b695-4d22-ae21-cf195434a880@www.fastmail.com> (ejb@ql.org) Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83bl0g6f29.fsf@gnu.org> <3759fdad-fb95-4af8-b2bf-146abb81eb3d@www.fastmail.com> <83pmow4r9q.fsf@gnu.org> <655743d1-b695-4d22-ae21-cf195434a880@www.fastmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 16:35:15 -0500 > From: "Jay Berkenbilt" > Cc: 53207@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > > My suggestion is to stop setting create-lockfiles to a nil value. Why > > > > is the non-nil value a problem? > > > > > > Emacs lockfiles are dangling symbolic links. Some tools and systems don't > > > like those. > > > > Isn't that the reason we introduced lock-file-name-transforms? > > Perhaps so, but this misses the point. My point was to say that if you want collision detection, you should turn on create-lockfiles. You said this could cause problems with some tools, and I then pointed out that Emacs 28 has a new feature to help you solve that side effect, so that you could use locking again. > I am pointing out at there is an undocumented, > perhaps undesirable change of behavior that needs to be either fixed or documented. I understand, but that's a separate, albeit related, issue. I was trying to help you to get collision detection back. Your original report seemed to ask how to do that, so I tried to answer that part. > If the change of behavior is intentional, then it should be documented. We are discussing this, and will document if that's the conclusion. > It just seems strange that emacs is perfectly capable of detecting when a file was changed > outside of emacs without a lockfile but doesn't do this check if it's not also creating lockfiles. Once again, this is not about the lockfiles, this is about the entire feature of detection of editing collisions. The variable's name is a misnomer. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 13 05:54:50 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2022 10:54:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60295 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7xko-0006O3-0r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:54:50 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50748) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7xkk-0006Nm-O4 for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:54:48 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=41426 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n7xkb-0003kM-6P; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:54:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=EfxWlnYq4VRdDB50tZphwJnQTAQh5+0zoTa1ERFpGgs=; b=h18/+4MWkJpa hfW1ElmcKHqGSc5p3WYnwy5iypwhG7xZebJPYUZBV5vacwFd8RsB02HZaJU9J3c7N7OC/1Olx0M8+ hfDANJuP0aRgbYtoQ9ehfy99ODgw54G2qeemUpv899ZdAi30RQ9/0/1J43b5wjQ7RqxvUy/NxiEDo zn5/zzCAwElb4sK2v7SuYMbG4G0X4Ev8ClCdpR7ofvuswNbJiEtE7VIizrA6IzAE94xIpTjSj3+Ks LBrmQpHfMbPqYKILFWP1LYY4Sdry9OGvSaysV/qPvbgHC8pHn4I8CQCWOa95lcIbvDCSDtLCJuurQ Ab+O4KqWkxJgOB6B+uygOA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3680 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n7xkY-00023F-6y; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:54:34 -0500 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 12:54:30 +0200 Message-Id: <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Glenn Morris , Michael Albinus , Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: (message from Glenn Morris on Wed, 12 Jan 2022 13:13:40 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: ejb@ql.org, 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Glenn Morris > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 13:13:40 -0500 > Cc: michael.albinus@gmx.de, 53207@debbugs.gnu.org > > Probably a consequence of 9ce6541ac9, specifically: > > * src/filelock.c (lock_file): Don't check create_lockfiles. Actually, the more relevant part is this: (Flock_file): Check create_lockfiles. which did - CHECK_STRING (file); - lock_file (file); +#ifndef MSDOS + /* Don't do locking if the user has opted out. */ + if (create_lockfiles) + { + CHECK_STRING (file); + lock_file (file); + } +#endif /* MSDOS */ > which would seem to mean that ask-user-about-supersession-threat > is no longer called when create-lockfiles is nil. > Was this intentional? Michael, can you please chime in? The long discussion we had back then doesn't seem to mention this aspect, or maybe I'm missing something? We should either document this change (if we think what we have now is the intended behavior), or we should move the call to userlock--ask-user-about-supersession-threat into Flock_file if it's unintended. Personally, I prefer the former, since lock_file accesses the lock file, which doesn't make a lot of sense if the user opted out of the feature. But that's me. Lars, WDYT? Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 13 08:06:57 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2022 13:06:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60458 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7zoe-0006TH-NK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:06:57 -0500 Received: from wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.20]:33671) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7zoa-0006Sz-HC for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:06:55 -0500 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id A94A23200F72; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:06:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap49 ([10.202.2.99]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:06:46 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ql.org; h= mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to:cc :subject:content-type; s=fm3; bh=bFmCjGDgihw83bWsQg/nwutJVfS2vZ3 +ZG2sExVHMYQ=; b=XbIFqtk/g31v7Wse/mICKeA1cGkGZCpd5gMBnbxwP7kpMFk KLlAMM6WTshdwCjaEr7iLMHJZGcbNylylxdqjIaXidKrX8ib3ltosOVADQb5s0K6 BQ1a5TfOH/LfeP1Z8E3eAvmF95QjNJ1kDuMXt5FiYU+CocRx2B7GSBhja3jx/8bU IwOxDuqEZg6pXLEUP0K2U7tc80b3Zb8dCk5vyS5s5G7FPOk9iFEgxtQmH/WPyk3n RzO1onZmLjJ1j9iLCbXxPvbDFPI1xNyVyyvRszmVC4/G1EU7AMcpPvVxR+bY1p1T Rdlh9XkRu8X48mRVTv0DiOIuJUeLviJZ2mYfZ1A== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=bFmCjG Dgihw83bWsQg/nwutJVfS2vZ3+ZG2sExVHMYQ=; b=CiPMdupXP9wjcP9/RULfcu ABZFWKM7WacX6QuS2j4u50sZBGUbgIwtI5dFCVI2sn/U8IIv+gSTEGQDpmlKUIsY 0fviKj969fQ85vMgFIdlzpF02KkZdDyHJw8U3kO7LHS6iNwCUx17zszAdEyESwFf aZeqoxIYHr1CQ8WnqtQCWuw8L0G73h0ylPGoAFzgMK/Mou5IcHmSxXp8LAlU+SZb NcFhLjldganZiAGZbk0cwOPQS1EfeysMafr45nWteF/Dv7M5gUOsTg/hFG0wUnzd 3KZYrZJPnnijOLplRdMbbTn0LG7HZ6WOVKNVP++nghNG/yjQmTwyYVQbbe/ONZyg == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvvddrtdefgdegjecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtsehttdertderredtnecuhfhrohhmpedflfgrhicu uegvrhhkvghnsghilhhtfdcuoegvjhgssehqlhdrohhrgheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnh epveekuddvieehgeekhedvfeehheeugeeuffffheeukeejleelueefkedtieeutdfhnecu ffhomhgrihhnpehgnhhurdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrg hmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepvghjsgesqhhlrdhorhhg X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id F006DF6007E; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:06:45 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-4569-g891f756243-fm-20220111.001-g891f7562 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <83mtk03zlp.fsf@gnu.org> References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83bl0g6f29.fsf@gnu.org> <3759fdad-fb95-4af8-b2bf-146abb81eb3d@www.fastmail.com> <83pmow4r9q.fsf@gnu.org> <655743d1-b695-4d22-ae21-cf195434a880@www.fastmail.com> <83mtk03zlp.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:06:24 -0500 From: "Jay Berkenbilt" To: "Eli Zaretskii" Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, at 1:43 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 16:35:15 -0500 > > From: "Jay Berkenbilt" > > Cc: 53207@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > > > > My suggestion is to stop setting create-lockfiles to a nil value. Why > > > > > is the non-nil value a problem? > > > > > > > > Emacs lockfiles are dangling symbolic links. Some tools and systems don't > > > > like those. > > > > > > Isn't that the reason we introduced lock-file-name-transforms? > > > > Perhaps so, but this misses the point. > > My point was to say that if you want collision detection, you should > turn on create-lockfiles. You said this could cause problems with > some tools, and I then pointed out that Emacs 28 has a new feature to > help you solve that side effect, so that you could use locking again. Thank you for clarifying. I have added the following to emacs initialization code. This is satisfying my need to avoid dangling links in places that confuse tools. === 8< === ;; I never use emacs with my own configuration in a multi-user ;; environment, and lockfiles are dangling links that confuse some ;; tools. Conflict detection works prior to 28.1 with ;; create-lockfiles nil. Starting in 28.1, it no longer works with ;; create-lockfiles nil, but lock-file-name-transforms can be used ;; to create the dangling links somewhere else. See ;; http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=53207 (if (boundp 'lock-file-name-transforms) (let* ((lockdir (expand-file-name "~/.emacs.d/lockfiles")) (replacement (concat lockdir "/\\2"))) (make-directory lockdir t) (setq lock-file-name-transforms `(("\\`\\([^/]*/\\)*\\([^/]*\\)\\'" ,replacement t)) ) ) (setq create-lockfiles nil) ) === 8< === > > It just seems strange that emacs is perfectly capable of detecting when a file was changed > > outside of emacs without a lockfile but doesn't do this check if it's not also creating lockfiles. > > Once again, this is not about the lockfiles, this is about the entire > feature of detection of editing collisions. The variable's name is a > misnomer. In addition to any other doc clarifications, I'd suggest the fact that create-lockfiles is a misnomer be explained in the help for create-lockfiles. I will add some thoughts to a different part of the thread. Thanks! From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 13 08:12:06 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2022 13:12:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60465 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7zte-0006cX-DH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:12:06 -0500 Received: from wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.20]:40345) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7ztZ-0006bw-Jj for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:12:05 -0500 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96AC23201DB9; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:11:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap49 ([10.202.2.99]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:11:56 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ql.org; h= mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to:cc :subject:content-type; s=fm3; bh=mvN6z3F2M5H2LqW3pPbIqFLhQ1bG2BY 9YSPiCm2xm2w=; b=pJ7neJj/T2fAbtnFqxIFgYQvRkMO0QEGHCMOd3JJru4L9G1 n5EQ4avCkqTJRm05OGsV93SAuZ3YeDUBb0RXaDTrUpMVvTb9g12yPq0kY5dJ9Sfb 8ouV2JBD0xeh6gyeJa/O1xX/1I1eIesw37ELBQ7/FQl35ShSDpUW1ctDTq0sqadZ WW7AOD9E444oDetatVwFqpXtQZX/BwPqW9AvCrGso1glkH3layiVuA3dpJvgoIsZ dX7gs5CYW9S2kg7anqltuTjy+LM7hkHDGRSMUXaMJJ/XiRrFsQIhebBZfyeqlCJr mFhfB2s7+ODivY3BgvM0gdBZyiDlIaXwR6kZjng== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=mvN6z3 F2M5H2LqW3pPbIqFLhQ1bG2BY9YSPiCm2xm2w=; b=L3u7/GnMa98RFV4ynozf1a pVZrvrB3sUD5GgCcIcnBwi64CmEarF9LUiWo9tDj3QNMnI1kxfF4taJaez+0946N 1aZFCPeXUKKWhydjPWvtmNJnx0C2DUuqxZks+g7Uk10u3YsEWPK0zJ8CybBm2fio dadetw+jkqaWVX5jb6zCCjgrUOE8nPZqJcymA318rNqUtqKPLBmJ8DHKqvP0TjEz Xcr6bpPm0uckm0Dh0Pspv4+phbDn5aMoGVUAs2tIzwkBiB+0NxT0ZLhq+fTclKxO l1Be4yBrPN3KavFrxvJ2VP12CiIvYmOsdNXPB6uz4rCTmeSq8cS4xRI1QqQsuGLA == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvvddrtdefgdegkecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtsehttdertderredtnecuhfhrohhmpedflfgrhicu uegvrhhkvghnsghilhhtfdcuoegvjhgssehqlhdrohhrgheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnh ephedtvefhfedvfffgieefudehfefhudfhgeffgffftdevleffhedvvdehjeffueeknecu vehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepvghjsgesqh hlrdhorhhg X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id B4D74F60075; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:11:54 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-4569-g891f756243-fm-20220111.001-g891f7562 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:11:34 -0500 From: "Jay Berkenbilt" To: "Eli Zaretskii" , "Glenn Morris" , "Michael Albinus" , "Lars Ingebrigtsen" Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, at 5:54 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Glenn Morris > > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 13:13:40 -0500 > > Cc: michael.albinus@gmx.de, 53207@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > Probably a consequence of 9ce6541ac9, specifically: > > > > * src/filelock.c (lock_file): Don't check create_lockfiles. > > Actually, the more relevant part is this: > > (Flock_file): Check create_lockfiles. > > which did > > - CHECK_STRING (file); > - lock_file (file); > +#ifndef MSDOS > + /* Don't do locking if the user has opted out. */ > + if (create_lockfiles) > + { > + CHECK_STRING (file); > + lock_file (file); > + } > +#endif /* MSDOS */ > > > which would seem to mean that ask-user-about-supersession-threat > > is no longer called when create-lockfiles is nil. > > Was this intentional? > > Michael, can you please chime in? The long discussion we had back > then doesn't seem to mention this aspect, or maybe I'm missing > something? > > We should either document this change (if we think what we have now is > the intended behavior), or we should move the call to > userlock--ask-user-about-supersession-threat into Flock_file if it's > unintended. > > Personally, I prefer the former, since lock_file accesses the lock > file, which doesn't make a lot of sense if the user opted out of the > feature. But that's me. For my edification, can you explain how the 27.2 behavior of noticing when a file's contents had changed immediately is not adequate without lockfiles? Is it that it doesn't work on some platforms, it doesn't work reliably with a network file system, etc.? It seems to me that there are two separate issues here. A lock file would enable you to immediately notice if a user on a *different system* is in the process of editing a file and has unsaved changes. On the other hand, the other behavior I'm talking about allows you to notice immediately when you begin editing if the file on disk has become out of sync with the buffer contents. These seem like two different things, both of which are valuable. I can't see how you would ever want to disable noticing if the file's contents on disk differ from the buffer, but if you never edit files with emacs on a multi-user system, then I don't see why you would care about lockfiles. All that said, I'm perfectly happy for my own purposes to set lock-file-name-transforms...I'm just trying to contribute a fresh, outside perspective (from someone who has used emacs for over 30 years and has a made a career of software development, including open source software) to the discussion. I trust that everyone is aware of the issue and will come to a good resolution. Thanks! I'm eager to hear the other opinions, even though I have no "vote" in the outcome. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 13 08:24:21 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2022 13:24:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60490 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n805V-00070A-0Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:24:21 -0500 Received: from mail-oi1-f172.google.com ([209.85.167.172]:43616) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n805T-0006zv-Lo for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:24:20 -0500 Received: by mail-oi1-f172.google.com with SMTP id s22so7576365oie.10 for <53207@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:24:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=6juimsxcmoSZrtliSxkI+7ucMr/5ZTjxPu98dadV8q0=; b=TCb5fvPGlwY9Q+KXPB/ok8gbXMLENSCUSq+7oKk9AUQRlPO5dIUYoTBjrDxmid/HRo sQz5G9hkTN6UbP9eiRZ8xmPjGy/4VsAJuV59ZCFZneogDL0dYW0ZFXRk8mJvmtNruJBS N2o9fxY5uHGiYniv8OmmGsqMww9zFqCQulTVcoIV/UJoRlO6oHj64f+ewI7RW4OyYV0l +9y0RWu5gla2rMAaARcO4oBYjC6KyXp17ZChP+m1Snjda5hPkmOFYgmqoZLE+kjIwxrL E83+iOHBcY1mj4ZAiUm68TKb8oulBH77caTAdEv8/zR+OhDOxmfdo2uTwysHuZ58dENG HxcQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6juimsxcmoSZrtliSxkI+7ucMr/5ZTjxPu98dadV8q0=; b=BknwbL089UDDdVJiWE7dm+p2VOPuMfPgprt+L3D4a71uSDrdsAO19IvAe3Z1uI6pbW trSNiFxxKewR0t6c6rgjJQi2DmQmFU+lGpjb8w9wDBBvWJ0DdAZaN2fdWsLR1XR/yx0s kwYlW4d6KOrivXtddI+m79URYWBBXBt/UjKTWfjWL8R1/Yb9QAePGhv+pRCuoIUKyLMX 84g1kFauAD4QRkoMYI5FS+sgKhrrPZeXTpJfYEvSp+0pvNVYvPLHv1uPAyXOADvR1Oa5 yD4wPVhJtHLjlqrxXOqAFLKFj8x3Aoo5qzdrGGwlOUSD+7yukVRZMAXNOnzNgIxdBKpm 7F3A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53123tYokNgV9nPBH51mrQPk4/gY5L1OAg1hsTeYp13UiafpsMLn Q5n2e9MzLE1UPqSrDT9Vw95yxQTzPHY6swawsrg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx044qRjAqKfXydHZ1DENjmXtWG4HKK51ex8oTGJwk96pUFOKzfqX2QMD9rGCq0ocPXwbOqkcDiY+uI0DoZFXo= X-Received: by 2002:aca:1c03:: with SMTP id c3mr3180757oic.158.1642080254057; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:24:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: From: Philipp Stephani Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 14:24:03 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection To: Jay Berkenbilt Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Am Do., 13. Jan. 2022 um 14:13 Uhr schrieb Jay Berkenbilt : > > > > On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, at 5:54 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > From: Glenn Morris > > > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 13:13:40 -0500 > > > [...] Content analysis details: (1.2 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in digit (p.stephani2[at]gmail.com) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (p.stephani2[at]gmail.com) -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [209.85.167.172 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.167.172 listed in list.dnswl.org] 1.0 FREEMAIL_REPLY From and body contain different freemails X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: Glenn Morris , Eli Zaretskii , Michael Albinus , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Am Do., 13. Jan. 2022 um 14:13 Uhr schrieb Jay Berkenbilt : > > > > On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, at 5:54 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > From: Glenn Morris > > > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 13:13:40 -0500 > > > Cc: michael.albinus@gmx.de, 53207@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > > > Probably a consequence of 9ce6541ac9, specifically: > > > > > > * src/filelock.c (lock_file): Don't check create_lockfiles. > > > > Actually, the more relevant part is this: > > > > (Flock_file): Check create_lockfiles. > > > > which did > > > > - CHECK_STRING (file); > > - lock_file (file); > > +#ifndef MSDOS > > + /* Don't do locking if the user has opted out. */ > > + if (create_lockfiles) > > + { > > + CHECK_STRING (file); > > + lock_file (file); > > + } > > +#endif /* MSDOS */ > > > > > which would seem to mean that ask-user-about-supersession-threat > > > is no longer called when create-lockfiles is nil. > > > Was this intentional? > > > > Michael, can you please chime in? The long discussion we had back > > then doesn't seem to mention this aspect, or maybe I'm missing > > something? > > > > We should either document this change (if we think what we have now is > > the intended behavior), or we should move the call to > > userlock--ask-user-about-supersession-threat into Flock_file if it's > > unintended. > > > > Personally, I prefer the former, since lock_file accesses the lock > > file, which doesn't make a lot of sense if the user opted out of the > > feature. But that's me. > > For my edification, can you explain how the 27.2 behavior of noticing > when a file's contents had changed immediately is not adequate without > lockfiles? Is it that it doesn't work on some platforms, it doesn't > work reliably with a network file system, etc.? > > It seems to me that there are two separate issues here. A lock file > would enable you to immediately notice if a user on a *different > system* is in the process of editing a file and has unsaved changes. > On the other hand, the other behavior I'm talking about allows you to > notice immediately when you begin editing if the file on disk has > become out of sync with the buffer contents. These seem like two > different things, both of which are valuable. I can't see how you > would ever want to disable noticing if the file's contents on disk > differ from the buffer, but if you never edit files with emacs on a > multi-user system, then I don't see why you would care about > lockfiles. I fully agree. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 13 09:02:23 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2022 14:02:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60541 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n80gI-0001wq-TC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 09:02:23 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59680) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n80g8-0001wQ-PL for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 09:02:20 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=44152 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n80g3-0001gf-5O; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 09:02:07 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=SM2ghtuWTGfqxTNvt28v0f9H26rOvyNJfVrCjbuZDRg=; b=RiC2iYVuU49u Xj73qGikrHFbHAX20nRw7G9yJemhlzYzP0cbxB2alRDz3MzLucfG6G6GOEiOK7/OrjWy3t9HHACdY 1GmkLqO1aoDM4j+JkbqWm0PjBWuwaAXB7O1hTw7pLjDDRO7ug8oqE1N+OTeQXfRTE8PMrx0/52Tis AlF9sJ5CWNfH2zlGB3vSZ4hmvdHOb5fEGfJiA/ml9KsGMR07TDHJ//qxomOim6/dtQFmB1oX//91o pgycNVsNQaGZVMS+QLT+PZUBIZS5e7ce8kR+kWXlsjwwm8qxgX7i34k/i4SUvZ3dOzJWkNoZ/VYUS irHnpKIOD8yyKf95lWn6lw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3206 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n80g2-00018q-Uq; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 09:02:07 -0500 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 16:02:04 +0200 Message-Id: <83h7a73fab.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: "Jay Berkenbilt" In-Reply-To: (ejb@ql.org) Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, michael.albinus@gmx.de, 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:11:34 -0500 > From: "Jay Berkenbilt" > Cc: 53207@debbugs.gnu.org > > For my edification, can you explain how the 27.2 behavior of noticing > when a file's contents had changed immediately is not adequate without > lockfiles? First, Emacs 27 wasn't looking at the file's contents, it was looking at the file's modification time. More to the point, the verification of the file's modification time that is now disabled when create-lockfiles is nil is part of detecting editing collisions, so when the user opts out of it, it makes sense not to detect _any_ collisions, including those detectable by verifying that the file wasn't modified since last visited or saved. The use of lockfiles is an implementation detail, and the fact that we only need it for 90% of the feature, not for 100%, is not significant enough IMO. > It seems to me that there are two separate issues here. A lock file > would enable you to immediately notice if a user on a *different > system* is in the process of editing a file and has unsaved changes. No, it also works when the same user on the same system edited the file from another Emacs session. That is a valid use case: some people start more than a single Emacs session on the same system. > On the other hand, the other behavior I'm talking about allows you to > notice immediately when you begin editing if the file on disk has > become out of sync with the buffer contents. That part is done when you save the buffer. It is unaffected by create-lockfiles. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 13 10:48:17 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2022 15:48:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34332 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n82Kn-0007qO-IH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:48:17 -0500 Received: from wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.21]:41753) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n82Kj-0007q4-K3 for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:48:16 -0500 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id A714032020F6; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:48:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap49 ([10.202.2.99]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:48:07 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ql.org; h= mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to:cc :subject:content-type; s=fm3; bh=lBeDn8+jhUSYT4x/0yg1syGzyTR8J7f DewwLZsu7z64=; b=b+58qgLWsDPskgauD+hU7UiC+AaSc15woqswV5dEFBkYxVb JByA76zeoSJ+pMxtK3KQGxADioMSVfrhW5dZHMZG0Yq2U4P7IKDidWUxlG54c+Sd nhjl0yZdvz93Kr1TrdyP5I0ug+fKy1qJnsj59eP1WtTXC5i+s/r6SCYSp6KHkYT5 0asWs8cHR08ErlyJz/1ui3NktcyieCxUlI02QHU6LWBrZN4GRRDVCI4SVkxAFcF9 rkOWMiCFQVQ5+M2ViRluWj4C9L+YX5sHfMH5BI8qMiwPgAjgEzVTImy7xh4y6DkG p2C4aSpxKEX3+wvAZOA3Fx/E7aq8mZHnsu2FxWg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=lBeDn8 +jhUSYT4x/0yg1syGzyTR8J7fDewwLZsu7z64=; b=cjMZgs0XXLPm5GmZsB5+WK /KJMFPfLmJpAaYHHGfwalXBd4bmAs+WSZ6XIvAY7hoapNR0cCLJeqokD69IjrD1G cI555pk9771ORtazibov9G55fz9zRTtWR+yDMsXt/UtgKPUEUceMQwzz1B0o0xPi jKTDEx323k97b5puVZMhN1B8+YeWx/wmR3C0WaIXT9dd4hDmT/66zHyDJVC7Fsoy sYbZABQoyoq5PNhx0b7w0MSY86V29FBev5PMHzRR7DisVwyWpGyKw1Aq7GkugoWN geIDsdth5aoKy79tMEtiCkDSDSLJNYWQB/emEKW5CAsAW5m1RdvNjfzcVdUwypsA == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvvddrtdefgdektdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtsehttdertderredtnecuhfhrohhmpedflfgrhicu uegvrhhkvghnsghilhhtfdcuoegvjhgssehqlhdrohhrgheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnh ephedtvefhfedvfffgieefudehfefhudfhgeffgffftdevleffhedvvdehjeffueeknecu vehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepvghjsgesqh hlrdhorhhg X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 25291F60075; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:48:05 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-4569-g891f756243-fm-20220111.001-g891f7562 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <83h7a73fab.fsf@gnu.org> References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7a73fab.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:47:21 -0500 From: "Jay Berkenbilt" To: "Eli Zaretskii" Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: Glenn Morris , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Michael Albinus , 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, at 9:02 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:11:34 -0500 > > From: "Jay Berkenbilt" > > Cc: 53207@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > For my edification, can you explain how the 27.2 behavior of noticing > > when a file's contents had changed immediately is not adequate without > > lockfiles? > > First, Emacs 27 wasn't looking at the file's contents, it was looking > at the file's modification time. My original recipe for reproducing the issue demonstrated that, after "touch file", you can continue editing freely and save, but after changing the contents, you can't. I don't remember when this first changed, maybe emacs 27 or 26. For ages before that, it was modification time. I remember noticing when updating the modtime without changing the content stopped triggering that. I was delighted. It is definitely the case that just updating the modification time on emacs 27.2 does not trigger this. You can try it. In emacs -Q, edit a file and save. From the shell, touch the file. No continue editing the file and save again. No warning. At least this is the case on my Ubuntu Linux 20.04 system with emacs compiled from source. > > It seems to me that there are two separate issues here. A lock file > > would enable you to immediately notice if a user on a *different > > system* is in the process of editing a file and has unsaved changes. > > No, it also works when the same user on the same system edited the > file from another Emacs session. That is a valid use case: some > people start more than a single Emacs session on the same system. Granted. Of course it doesn't protect against another very common use case, which is people opening the same file in emacs and simultaneously in something like VS Code or another IDE. I know developers that work this way day in and day out -- they use emacs for most of their editing but hop over to an IDE to take advantage of project-wide integrations, better test integration, a more advanced debugger, or better out-of-the-box functionality with their programming language or environment of choice. So lock files remain a solution that only works in an emacs-only environment, while noticing that the file's modification time has changed is universal, and noticing that a file's content has changed is a great advancement over just noticing modtime since it allows for workflows like git rebase. > > On the other hand, the other behavior I'm talking about allows you to > > notice immediately when you begin editing if the file on disk has > > become out of sync with the buffer contents. > > That part is done when you save the buffer. It is unaffected by > create-lockfiles. It is also done when you start editing a buffer, as shown in my original message. Really. Try it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 14 09:26:34 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2022 14:26:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35975 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8NXF-0007uM-7F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 09:26:33 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:32885) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8NXB-0007u0-Dv for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 09:26:32 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1642170380; bh=PMqgfV/AlzoEHwAiRhGPFkHjWEHwW/nvAMc9WgnBD60=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=BOtr8Gzzh2+6HyQRJ4FQldUW4DVzh1hQIcg34QkAnMf0OcB0l6GbP/9eJPtSBZpmP 2JQVSgluh0ky5F5/rpreo6uXKikXMjBikOBpH1vfGusTCQNKEOKyhOU58OpRYBmOUQ 9DwbXmf50Q8lNNiTFxQOeFqKzeLEBJSI/ewTJ0iE= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from gandalf.gmx.de ([79.140.118.160]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M72oH-1nGMx23ixz-008aWu; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 15:26:20 +0100 From: Michael Albinus To: "Jay Berkenbilt" Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7a73fab.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 15:26:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Jay Berkenbilt's message of "Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:47:21 -0500") Message-ID: <87fspqz94l.fsf@gmx.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:1OYW+gyltftKVVAzTUnn4JQMlItsbwZ24B0AOXtcsLmh5HtNAbu bWGKS7YkV5MWtetGNuUBFwk/E1+hPrcxLsO0wMZUJFJG11UiI+o7zOD9hW6+PJxnN46YEou tJCnXJffnSkh5ko6boMvPk7D4VJ3H2moKA4egtzB7ZVn5wgBSazX2BYtlwiTK9Bdn892XsQ +Auiha2iigTtZfWr/ORmw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:+GvkJrTmFmk=:Ja23IA2mdc40NV4HBJ2B9U jS213nuVG2ejsPKKidkzij/er3zQnnOIc7MfjfdKiD3iocJGLXRJ2g+r0e2/sOmMleOTPYS64 9uO9zc/Fu+hcgQwx0irP8tKi9BraKGEjwcxsSgxcm6e5pJFwZw2TxqfgcO3En0Ih7QGG5Urbp xGvT9FPanNe8Zoxh1LMSKup1A8kX9RMHX/q9UapOoneCtPZOb/v6ao6j6Rh6obc2D6ExkLmXA tr0+BmKqDhuhfg+130ybq8SAtBbPyG3yu09d2uwNesT9wjIIpsBk8/ZpkiErnt0A0q7viUMyx UwPp5+GPD+O2LPHyaz5VyiicnpafBjHlFKSQEXBAJQAnyFVOxqF1s0zNtjysSnjiYJRi7fWuG gaASNwn3MkfjjfSUgYrcT8flXVDWq/UrBB+z0dIjFSdmy5s5dDqr7zP3DACcdVhI0C0+NjcKW dYSYSKLaa/wQT2ZTB13crdCKtAAUgfhnajGtJwSBLrBYlJoWKg6XihisXPZvyXlpFAr/pRvq2 3Cjo+QWJRJMRBGeZicb7COtXG12mvY5b3a/Ty9fLaO04q15oOcchH5SBJhxunGSZrytZbwrQP O7F3oFBPxpH/WnrEUU4AwfWSXPfrYefbIt0jJEbIE42pgdmZW9JF8ssmmLvmaqTL9DwzL8ohG 1a97TWjesjuV9Qs+hxKjlqcU8LtMmryKz/FrtoIzQKwKPrS2Im6zDPUlSI8mzEx0nkCgxlkOj nZoBA+NgXv+GMYQJU+RJEh7eVRPt+6RKxDRIc2Q82+ufY1y5KDRt4g6lXS8kruL3zuzgzvHHb SgMlwR0xpWj64Utw9xn2c903H8TjMZtPMMZUXI2/zmj56St42obXjGO4FUkuSMGTVBkMUv8wK pPjS/NohgNajNf2YtPaC4U0+ZkPF1MkO5OcUKJfCK93UVZqEdInSkg1S8lZXsBq41ovyrDEcK alAN7hg6XdqzQbpowf88177o52bvgAPuKvnzgQ818krRoBQ3jSYDu4CTklZG8XlGUH90DVbJb 1QA/jCxPlrC0OQOEf95SHFOAfZukmZUoX6R0xYdzpWtca1zx92lhbHk7FnQm1soFKeec8BWtt IvmY/6Py9hjzGg= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: Glenn Morris , Eli Zaretskii , Lars Ingebrigtsen , 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) "Jay Berkenbilt" writes: Hi Jay, > On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, at 9:02 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> > Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 08:11:34 -0500 >> > From: "Jay Berkenbilt" >> > Cc: 53207@debbugs.gnu.org >> >=20 >> > For my edification, can you explain how the 27.2 behavior of noticing >> > when a file's contents had changed immediately is not adequate without >> > lockfiles? >>=20 >> First, Emacs 27 wasn't looking at the file's contents, it was looking >> at the file's modification time. > > My original recipe for reproducing the issue demonstrated that, after > "touch file", you can continue editing freely and save, but after > changing the contents, you can't. I don't remember when this first > changed, maybe emacs 27 or 26. For ages before that, it was > modification time. I remember noticing when updating the modtime > without changing the content stopped triggering that. I was delighted. > > It is definitely the case that just updating the modification time on > emacs 27.2 does not trigger this. You can try it. In emacs -Q, edit a > file and save. From the shell, touch the file. No continue editing the > file and save again. No warning. At least this is the case on my > Ubuntu Linux 20.04 system with emacs compiled from source. Same here. In lock_file of Emacs 27, there is the check --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- if (!NILP (subject_buf) && NILP (Fverify_visited_file_modtime (subject_buf)) && !NILP (Ffile_exists_p (fn))) call1 (intern ("userlock--ask-user-about-supersession-threat"), fn); --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- It checks the file modification time. But then, if changed, it calls userlock--ask-user-about-supersession-threat, which also checks the file contents before warning. Therefore, a simple touch doesn't trigger the user question. >> > It seems to me that there are two separate issues here. A lock file >> > would enable you to immediately notice if a user on a *different >> > system* is in the process of editing a file and has unsaved changes. >>=20 >> No, it also works when the same user on the same system edited the >> file from another Emacs session. That is a valid use case: some >> people start more than a single Emacs session on the same system. > > Granted. Of course it doesn't protect against another very common use > case, which is people opening the same file in emacs and > simultaneously in something like VS Code or another IDE. I know > developers that work this way day in and day out -- they use emacs for > most of their editing but hop over to an IDE to take advantage of > project-wide integrations, better test integration, a more advanced > debugger, or better out-of-the-box functionality with their > programming language or environment of choice. So lock files remain a > solution that only works in an emacs-only environment, while noticing > that the file's modification time has changed is universal, and > noticing that a file's content has changed is a great advancement over > just noticing modtime since it allows for workflows like git rebase. > >> > On the other hand, the other behavior I'm talking about allows you to >> > notice immediately when you begin editing if the file on disk has >> > become out of sync with the buffer contents. >>=20 >> That part is done when you save the buffer. It is unaffected by >> create-lockfiles. > > It is also done when you start editing a buffer, as shown in my original > message. Really. Try it. Sure. That's because there's no visited file modification time yet for that buffer. In Emacs 28, the check above has been extended to --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- if (!NILP (subject_buf) && NILP (Fverify_visited_file_modtime (subject_buf)) && !NILP (Ffile_exists_p (fn)) && current_lock_owner (NULL, lfname) !=3D I_OWN_IT) call1 (intern ("userlock--ask-user-about-supersession-threat"), fn); --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- So it checks also the owner of the lock file. This makes only sense, if create-lockfiles is non-nil; otherwise there is no lock file owner ... I agree with Eli, that the current behavior in Emacs 28 is consistent. Since this is an incompatible change, we shall document it. The Emacs 28 manual says --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- You can prevent the creation of lock files by setting the variable =E2=80=98create-lockfiles=E2=80=99 to =E2=80=98nil=E2=80=99. *Caution:* by= doing so you will lose the benefits that this feature provides. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Maybe it shall be more explicit saying, that also detection of changing the modification time is lost when create-lockfiles is nil. etc/NEWS is silent about this, it should explain this subtle change as well. Best regards, Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 14 09:43:34 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2022 14:43:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35991 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8Nni-0008OY-2z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 09:43:34 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55356) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8Nnd-0008OF-4C for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 09:43:32 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=42128 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n8NnX-0000IU-GD; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 09:43:23 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=/Hm8lnSIDQc1hBoxYOtEm9+iQ99V48TIwoY/TwdNwH0=; b=ao1iBxNvKMZuq6wKf/it 2I1sX2OF1DCh2rBOEksueu00ukeONnP+P2ONT6pj7Mx+qVk+K/MRStE5dzsEEidCoY3RR8KYYhYcM Uamk5QTadGQIINhn0iyprkblrUXfC6zKO9EC1oKDroJqNsXk5lRj7eKKlkmaS4DsQnwidC2/RY74n L+S+JT+KNy9TzIFqc1+qEIiRi5nd9hnhvkKAeNXZF1dn4t29yJB+UWSHVLUH6DsO3tXrquAULyUvy TQQJNv0GqSJEq1FPbOJlu+yxL2SsVNj7oEcbb2Z1hqxHXA0449PAD2ySjHuHa2vPSX4AvBEYWA9mL CShuKuX7qOH2Nw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2635 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n8NnX-0002yB-H1; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 09:43:23 -0500 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 16:43:22 +0200 Message-Id: <83mtjy1iph.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Michael Albinus In-Reply-To: <87fspqz94l.fsf@gmx.de> (message from Michael Albinus on Fri, 14 Jan 2022 15:26:18 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7a73fab.fsf@gnu.org> <87fspqz94l.fsf@gmx.de> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, ejb@ql.org, larsi@gnus.org, 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Michael Albinus > Cc: "Eli Zaretskii" , "Glenn Morris" , "Lars > Ingebrigtsen" , 53207@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 15:26:18 +0100 > > So it checks also the owner of the lock file. This makes only sense, if > create-lockfiles is non-nil; otherwise there is no lock file owner ... > > I agree with Eli, that the current behavior in Emacs 28 is > consistent. Since this is an incompatible change, we shall document > it. The Emacs 28 manual says > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > You can prevent the creation of lock files by setting the variable > ‘create-lockfiles’ to ‘nil’. *Caution:* by doing so you will lose the > benefits that this feature provides. > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > Maybe it shall be more explicit saying, that also detection of changing > the modification time is lost when create-lockfiles is nil. We should say there that setting the variable to nil disables the entire editing collision detection, not just creation of the lock files. > etc/NEWS is silent about this, it should explain this subtle change as well. Right. Assuming we agree with the current behavior. Lars, WDYT? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 14 11:11:40 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2022 16:11:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37915 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8PAy-0005GH-6J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 11:11:40 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46186) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8PAs-0005Fv-Vz for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 11:11:38 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=44526 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n8PAj-00060E-AL; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 11:11:29 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To: From; bh=hkB54uUG5bF4c427QN0vYl92cTr25OEWlamyU7sFR38=; b=O+ezmcf85kpaFC/TKira rS+Fwg2lAed+an6qKpMFI5Ieka1QjpRaLOLEH4bHR95IdcYr8895Q6E260Y2lD1SsKWAknzeApxx1 Us4xvba6uV0K0jVoyagftJHadJyX+B67vr0XuhrGkI7ppyztpDXw1GMMQBNuOMUbKVIuGl8rvWMSf E2GS8OjC0OM9agzsLUtE0qCw+ON1QFAtYB8BTU7mE4B3D3aePICqKpOHSGop3FYn75PbZZj0FE2RS 2NA3r75KC05W8YZ7IQCLHxJEnlGXTow4q7hvoAYDfXnI32BSmC/lUlGJgWGDEGpuTKEN+Uo+lp6Vw 3BbeWqeOLHHBcQ==; Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n8PAh-0005n0-DW; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 11:11:23 -0500 From: Glenn Morris To: Michael Albinus Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7a73fab.fsf@gnu.org> <87fspqz94l.fsf@gmx.de> X-Spook: Homeland Defense National Operations Center Botnet Ron X-Ran: %DRl(!aw^lzGT*7RrH7"L* (Michael Albinus's message of "Fri, 14 Jan 2022 15:26:18 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Jay Berkenbilt , Eli Zaretskii , 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) I find this report very clear (in both recipe and explaining motivation), but I'm struggling to understand some of the responses to it. Was it functionally necessary for the addition of lock file transforms to break the create-lockfiles nil case? If not, why isn't restoring the functionality being considered? Conceptually, it is hard for me to see why lockfiles (a system for detecting editing collisions between Emacs instances) should be tied up with detecting changes made outside of Emacs. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 14 11:44:42 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2022 16:44:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37966 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8Pgw-0006E9-0e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 11:44:42 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58502) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8Pgu-0006Dv-EL for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 11:44:40 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=45586 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n8Pgo-00043V-Tc; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 11:44:34 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=XyixSwGNlAgSfScRFd1B+hA8jREGC1sSjEbC6VAyGAw=; b=cxya7y/DkH9q RzzzlH2UZ8LS58Rh14+Eg5P7G4/Ut5bFjNlNkTZOhTltbNq1RL7IKCARby9p4evtnzkdP27gZb5rj YLddoPYThPgMoKXCnemH0zUrL2oBj7GI+2XJq6dVfS9iL3yxsVdAW7i1X32SsNdtI1UHLX/44CCsV RxM7t58cVRb8ms/rRKlOgadctQEOje7YCR/RzCwSwyfNElsalWRY64nj9DLwaSXxNR8bhUJWs7V1r MCfTusJWE+fu5E1vYdyNJiq12Uak4Ah98cFigXOU4Xb3Kr9PJA2xCs6wzplTqR27MpYhizCtjrzrR raiX2d/tRXsfs43YEkQYig==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2050 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n8Pgm-00081j-NS; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 11:44:33 -0500 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:44:26 +0200 Message-Id: <83k0f21d3p.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Glenn Morris In-Reply-To: (message from Glenn Morris on Fri, 14 Jan 2022 11:11:23 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7a73fab.fsf@gnu.org> <87fspqz94l.fsf@gmx.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: ejb@ql.org, michael.albinus@gmx.de, larsi@gnus.org, 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Glenn Morris > Cc: "Jay Berkenbilt" , "Eli Zaretskii" , "Lars Ingebrigtsen" , 53207@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 11:11:23 -0500 > > why isn't restoring the functionality being considered? It was mentioned as one of the two possible solutions, so it is being considered. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 15 03:06:29 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2022 08:06:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38877 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8e4z-00059x-Ox for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 03:06:29 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:46252) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8e4x-00059f-Jd for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 03:06:28 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=JY/gQX5uPKVsuxidgWkB9mt4MRQhm3Xnn6h3ZxQqQ1I=; b=psvgCoJ/n6W7w9NVkgDWDJ8nMI 7G3Idfx2MP/BjmNwYEKx4Z9uhfOnOlL8qXllm2NPcTF8geoGKCtO4T1tNtS2ByMxZw2sTJh0d++6F DhfyQTnKTO2GD0S4KSzEqVdQKQF9be4UeRizBmepB3GzVgbKYSlitFt+3NRpSAlABK1I=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n8e4o-0002RR-Jz; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 09:06:21 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7a73fab.fsf@gnu.org> <87fspqz94l.fsf@gmx.de> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEX16t2UXz5VNytR MSfWlGD////m+Z8KAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+YBDwc6ESOcg9cAAAGmSURBVDjLdZTb ldwgEEQ1Pg7A1eoEGpyAwAGAhvxjcjWPmdGulg8diUv1G23bT+sRguH72rZf2VeMKaYc3qsM8LED +FPbVOScwuf6ACRk8QZwaQ1ul2e+AGjb55ErELTnPcgh3gKY5Xvwd7v1kXDcOz+qafcRXyB0YPWo h3iqF4BoNSNhZf5YdtqJlhureAEhVQep+S4/3wptDlAYVaL3V1SGilMJMPr2AiogKCi9JmkByxCK tLTy7ImsssdsvQn6e3v2jrxAMqNX4+cV0Kr6EGjZnqm3/wKApmVnGqvnKfY6AVFRxyzIBdRkkBA4 eXPgOjiosA7GiP1xMJwwkwMCizw5Qc/J9jmr4l2IHQTXJBnVdN8cbwd8cw1m/aO3bZjqLcj/9nDA EHaXTuddcpzpAKpEl8aloIS7LHCtonsP95H6TZNgWhWtMZ/KnUIQ1r2rqmcvGQb4uJKl+tPbSYCv QOycpl62MEzRk4N1zUU8KEwnBKwpmydrR8RP1m7KeNZz5hWUKXcwNlkOsG/vMPxfMoaadrSId9zC jIqmAlXVFctW+fGv9B9uV6ECSnYrMwAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0wMS0xNVQwNzo1 ODoxNyswMDowMB4v7YEAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDEtMTVUMDc6NTg6MTcrMDA6 MDBvclU9AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Joni Mitchell's _Archives: The Early Years (3)_: "Winter Lady (Live at The 2nd Fret, Philadelphia, PA, 3-17-1967)" Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 09:06:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Fri, 14 Jan 2022 11:11:23 -0500") Message-ID: <87v8ylmnie.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Glenn Morris writes: > Was it functionally necessary for the addition of lock file transforms > to break the create-lockfiles nil case? If not, why isn't restoring the > functionality being considered? Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: Jay Berkenbilt , Michael Albinus , Eli Zaretskii , 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Glenn Morris writes: > Was it functionally necessary for the addition of lock file transforms > to break the create-lockfiles nil case? If not, why isn't restoring the > functionality being considered? Oh, is this a fallout from introducing `lock-file-name-transforms'? Then changing the semantics of `create-lockfiles' was not intended, and the previous semantics should be restored. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 15 03:16:26 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2022 08:16:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38887 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8eEb-0006i6-U4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 03:16:26 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:46310) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8eEZ-0006bi-IL for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 03:16:24 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=iIfLk3sJ5Pm0nI/3xo4gwOkS4l3mti750OUg1furmKE=; b=rdcjFZJ5HEbuxPpMDQ1lhj6Ye3 3N/iMB3JVAYZA9pCsgHk4XdttdMVEeuCJd48nEroPilmwa4gHjUotOsD9138HnK8GR512zF2Ki9fQ BeRZsTPbKrXw6bpiuL20zfTGb7j3hclKAFzEmrLHS6AuntFwYrMIT8M62oWnWDyfBbj4=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n8eEP-0002WQ-M9; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 09:16:16 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7a73fab.fsf@gnu.org> <87fspqz94l.fsf@gmx.de> <87v8ylmnie.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEX16t2UXz5VNytR MSfWlGD////m+Z8KAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+YBDwc6ESOcg9cAAAGmSURBVDjLdZTb ldwgEEQ1Pg7A1eoEGpyAwAGAhvxjcjWPmdGulg8diUv1G23bT+sRguH72rZf2VeMKaYc3qsM8LED +FPbVOScwuf6ACRk8QZwaQ1ul2e+AGjb55ErELTnPcgh3gKY5Xvwd7v1kXDcOz+qafcRXyB0YPWo h3iqF4BoNSNhZf5YdtqJlhureAEhVQep+S4/3wptDlAYVaL3V1SGilMJMPr2AiogKCi9JmkByxCK tLTy7ImsssdsvQn6e3v2jrxAMqNX4+cV0Kr6EGjZnqm3/wKApmVnGqvnKfY6AVFRxyzIBdRkkBA4 eXPgOjiosA7GiP1xMJwwkwMCizw5Qc/J9jmr4l2IHQTXJBnVdN8cbwd8cw1m/aO3bZjqLcj/9nDA EHaXTuddcpzpAKpEl8aloIS7LHCtonsP95H6TZNgWhWtMZ/KnUIQ1r2rqmcvGQb4uJKl+tPbSYCv QOycpl62MEzRk4N1zUU8KEwnBKwpmydrR8RP1m7KeNZz5hWUKXcwNlkOsG/vMPxfMoaadrSId9zC jIqmAlXVFctW+fGv9B9uV6ECSnYrMwAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0wMS0xNVQwNzo1 ODoxNyswMDowMB4v7YEAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDEtMTVUMDc6NTg6MTcrMDA6 MDBvclU9AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Joni Mitchell's _Archives: The Early Years (3)_: "Eastern Rain" Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 09:16:12 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87v8ylmnie.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 15 Jan 2022 09:06:17 +0100") Message-ID: <87mtjxmn1v.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Oh, is this a fallout from introducing `lock-file-name-transforms'? > Then changing the semantics of `create-lockfiles' was not intended, and > the previous semantics should be restored. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: Jay Berkenbilt , Michael Albinus , Eli Zaretskii , 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Oh, is this a fallout from introducing `lock-file-name-transforms'? > Then changing the semantics of `create-lockfiles' was not intended, and > the previous semantics should be restored. (I thought this was about not being asked for supersession when doing a "touch" on the file (without modifying it), but that change was intended.) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 15 04:24:26 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2022 09:24:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38995 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8fIP-0005Vh-ST for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 04:24:26 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44892) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8fIM-0005VQ-4U for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 04:24:24 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=53226 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n8fIG-0001T6-J8; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 04:24:16 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=EXr8+f93qegaO0kO8iWny46KKW65J5SzPcKFYiLyDBU=; b=fEIBVIFIQRbw 4xHEEKsqYKw19j4ZvaNIKr6B9dd1cRAIo7PldGVQezkvUDFjbMCJBYRtYzqgHHOBMgGm3DbUxSxZJ mUO53ZHxqJvHKw6UeGMa+nOkqwAw4Fm12EqnefvK3Gn2iOzUHs59l9k/U4z/JW4bUTpjS5E5lLyS0 359gGIYPyoHC1IXxVAauKVyUIyG16T7qi09xyishMbAZ5v9Xrxtqi6fEAH3xbgjgiLGo/5WW5EQjL aTws1uAYdYeD2Q9qxOdPje0Gq0z9jGZ6xF4VFk2F1LptqArdNv90JJRjsUy+drUtBLGgWJIeY3WzY VQvqexTs3mH57aRndmjm6w==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3302 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n8fIF-0005GC-7c; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 04:24:15 -0500 Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 11:23:58 +0200 Message-Id: <837db11he9.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87v8ylmnie.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sat, 15 Jan 2022 09:06:17 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7a73fab.fsf@gnu.org> <87fspqz94l.fsf@gmx.de> <87v8ylmnie.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, ejb@ql.org, michael.albinus@gmx.de, 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: Michael Albinus , "Jay Berkenbilt" > , "Eli Zaretskii" , 53207@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 09:06:17 +0100 > > Glenn Morris writes: > > > Was it functionally necessary for the addition of lock file transforms > > to break the create-lockfiles nil case? If not, why isn't restoring the > > functionality being considered? > > Oh, is this a fallout from introducing `lock-file-name-transforms'? No, I think this change was introduced by support for locking remote files. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 27 12:19:23 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Jan 2022 17:19:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56425 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD8Qd-0003a1-4N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:19:23 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42030) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nD8Qa-0003Zl-DL for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:19:21 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=60944 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nD8QU-0005EV-HP; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:19:14 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=eJzu/DlkLdFQ3oNgte1jYVHVXyYRJBBAEp1Mavz/dps=; b=Ub8mORjdRZT+ BXfzgX8O8v+oi7EY+eu1lQHhRSJ3VG1yHCVNXZNwNwe9nLLVAbmkOVTYXyvuK34CPG/bhn3oGdDn1 cd7iSYdabAhaImTPXooS6loc0nWS1fQglk9AW67cSPfn5mxiS5xZ3ElpcuNKWCfnfM91FRFGJjuI4 523xzmwppvA5pz4HwWu3I0DRPBtV9FACwf4wfxLBeOO7XimaUd1po2Lhe2dIgSiAau75qiH4+y0sw FK+R42ucKtC4R9n7Hr/JzZTQC6/Ui2cht/5xeEPE7OHmLFNdZht4RrgAd7+TVQmrX/Quio/6/D8xh 6wq9v38ar6WdRA/vcZRMEQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4495 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nD8QT-0008QC-20; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:19:14 -0500 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 19:19:06 +0200 Message-Id: <83h79pdrlh.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: larsi@gnus.org In-Reply-To: <837db11he9.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Sat, 15 Jan 2022 11:23:58 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7a73fab.fsf@gnu.org> <87fspqz94l.fsf@gmx.de> <87v8ylmnie.fsf@gnus.org> <837db11he9.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, ejb@ql.org, michael.albinus@gmx.de, 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 11:23:58 +0200 > From: Eli Zaretskii > Cc: rgm@gnu.org, ejb@ql.org, michael.albinus@gmx.de, 53207@debbugs.gnu.org > > > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > > Cc: Michael Albinus , "Jay Berkenbilt" > > , "Eli Zaretskii" , 53207@debbugs.gnu.org > > Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 09:06:17 +0100 > > > > Glenn Morris writes: > > > > > Was it functionally necessary for the addition of lock file transforms > > > to break the create-lockfiles nil case? If not, why isn't restoring the > > > functionality being considered? > > > > Oh, is this a fallout from introducing `lock-file-name-transforms'? > > No, I think this change was introduced by support for locking remote > files. Lars, what shall we do about this bug report? Should we document the current behavior, or should we move the call to userlock--ask-user-about-supersession-threat out of Flock_file? This should be resolved before the next pretest, I think. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 28 08:42:33 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jan 2022 13:42:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57715 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDRWL-00036F-Fp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 08:42:33 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:41898) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDRWI-000360-K3 for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 08:42:31 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=de2SZPH8GVD25ygGC52SDRngvsaCoowMw5jbYX3d0Ns=; b=Qc+JnLmrtR6NEMWJ/qGr0iiDB4 bHtfkm71gnOerljxWGIUYtgUEJHj0j1XD37IS0wQCjO/1Vc0oOhQ62bd3QqwnrV+jI43FmLZSvGPt Az7NYf5b5p0HJ5alkD0E0u5XbZiOWVNk1Iu1tSx4FFYRtdmJvA6z4RGD58ceW8VCHYlo=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=giant) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nDRW8-0002qf-Gc; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 14:42:23 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7a73fab.fsf@gnu.org> <87fspqz94l.fsf@gmx.de> <87v8ylmnie.fsf@gnus.org> <837db11he9.fsf@gnu.org> <83h79pdrlh.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: Joe Jackson's _Big World_: "Fifty Dollar Love Affair" Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 14:42:19 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83h79pdrlh.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 27 Jan 2022 19:19:06 +0200") Message-ID: <877dakht8k.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Lars, what shall we do about this bug report? Should we document the > current behavior, or should we move the call to > userlock--ask-user-about-supersession-threat out of Flock_file? This > should [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, ejb@ql.org, michael.albinus@gmx.de, 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > Lars, what shall we do about this bug report? Should we document the > current behavior, or should we move the call to > userlock--ask-user-about-supersession-threat out of Flock_file? This > should be resolved before the next pretest, I think. I think we should restore the old behaviour, so that setting create-lockfiles to nil doesn't break file change detection. I think that means that we have to move userlock--ask-user-about-supersession-threat out of Flock_file, yes. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 28 09:31:20 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jan 2022 14:31:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57945 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDSHU-0005hY-LA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:31:20 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40084) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDSHT-0005bh-5b for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:31:15 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=56104 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nDSHN-0004sj-N2; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:31:09 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=U7SUBLo7gLCGG+PellICi/4FY6SN7KplJTY55GBxiV8=; b=E8fWHy+ItAq8 bT5vtfnQq13eTIAyT6oPKHgTSOJ7RYMAA/ZqUHHxFBzYl1bhCbmvXyTMGNLp/GbWK0QL7adQFjmRn 7h30zuchnXyGvt0LVapIsdvKAsVlrHoCmMrxc1QEcnVBGKLajxQmAeDVJGgnnp2BjoUbpuVFJ/ZTe XTthpDsE98MLLOuuetXxIVnZujsLrPMUaKOe6EKmnTjJaEJ+zOum5uw+fORwhjLK6MsSgHpd9h/O+ xEUIcVlmEi7Xvcd3Y+BvpBhDm8Ua57GvjYOv705+rDRVqJrqZluB+7i04MyQNxiW6ZRNQCrepoSTT bHbszhivm0ZSdyKOWAW8Jw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2799 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nDSGm-0006aJ-TP; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:30:54 -0500 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:30:29 +0200 Message-Id: <83h79oc4qi.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , michael.albinus@gmx.de In-Reply-To: <877dakht8k.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Fri, 28 Jan 2022 14:42:19 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7a73fab.fsf@gnu.org> <87fspqz94l.fsf@gmx.de> <87v8ylmnie.fsf@gnus.org> <837db11he9.fsf@gnu.org> <83h79pdrlh.fsf@gnu.org> <877dakht8k.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, ejb@ql.org, 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: rgm@gnu.org, ejb@ql.org, michael.albinus@gmx.de, 53207@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 14:42:19 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Lars, what shall we do about this bug report? Should we document the > > current behavior, or should we move the call to > > userlock--ask-user-about-supersession-threat out of Flock_file? This > > should be resolved before the next pretest, I think. > > I think we should restore the old behaviour, so that setting > create-lockfiles to nil doesn't break file change detection. I think > that means that we have to move > userlock--ask-user-about-supersession-threat out of Flock_file, yes. Michael, could you please suggest a patch along these lines? The changeset which moved userlock--ask-user-about-supersession-threat into Flock_file and put that under the create-lockfiles condition was your change to support locking remote files. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 28 09:56:58 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jan 2022 14:56:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60141 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDSgM-0008AN-Gb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:56:58 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:52313) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDSgL-00089u-7r for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 09:56:57 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1643381808; bh=/AbDfk/OQbxGsL7Ex/7/HhPcxcopw7ZQ9Ijo96Hnyxw=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=kM5M08sbTJEAlYK9llT2sCCrJLkSq7JSkdobToxR4qdg5HA47sjHxFDwZvBP7sUui /VN/bOedO87n93PFSsP22s8Z0/lLXpRhimorwyxdt0w91OsfXZzlEWf4yRxGgernzb f+impB5Ty3I+eJwjJ7t7TRUoRdGx+ZfXdMt7iQXw= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from gandalf.gmx.de ([213.220.158.226]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M6llE-1nAjeg0dAM-008Iz5; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 15:56:48 +0100 From: Michael Albinus To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7a73fab.fsf@gnu.org> <87fspqz94l.fsf@gmx.de> <87v8ylmnie.fsf@gnus.org> <837db11he9.fsf@gnu.org> <83h79pdrlh.fsf@gnu.org> <877dakht8k.fsf@gnus.org> <83h79oc4qi.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 15:56:46 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83h79oc4qi.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:30:29 +0200") Message-ID: <87leyz29jl.fsf@gmx.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:bpDLyp6fPdVsKFeR6b9cCRypCwdi4L/q9MORNrFXtXS4CeR7VcI cob6HyETHOURCuC4YV6eFyZ0nx6r7U4ZblB6/QL0r1YVrsOAqHuH9QWsuxN9oWWWuPWLY0E iqn+pSWtTEhISGg0r+2s0tje7mWHfBbETaES+cyMAcUBloHFUqY6fzPIdxRZn/z2uwJEsr6 IwHnWg6UfmFeHIpBd+AWw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:7ytNsoIvbPY=:1FarqVTtiOb5oqs56s+oKm l15JucXyhJHbGcPWq1t6p4ZCuPEPg8jSXj3ZKFpzorr52ADYpYB6KerHcGxCgcGd+dJ0Up048 KfjRUra3KZBkZNYacszNV5W4Y3RWEi5IDpYnr+mJzV65Fq8oyRN5qnBWdTv0B15TRrDgo6vcY sXDMXqjRur5wA31jmjo3sgt2aGs0Pyw43NMHX8siVQJh6+chbn5EQ0IkBeFj0hohljgCRUfps SYXnYXl+uj/VAkUVBwFsXwgtbYkLRGg1HEHQDWViSsQB4uOkC+H9DPzLL49Aiq+w+DSC/jvbs FUdi+nk9MFg2SYhbdT9M/s6L40xwfoe98zK37+7dKs2JO+XYDOFXVCg8hXFtEPwh+6jcZzNYp 5ey9CFLhAnj6MmtZFFE2QfVXaSDoKXX9tYqAbpLC9qpDTtBu70Lfo5e/gISFBV8wbnYQ8fkxN 0K4UghfS/xaKNI1H/BA4W8rVuon0v4ZQMRpoA3xfCQcMq4t+XyJ0PAv3wQAY46O0ARpgCxsZ7 LBlTQtJ2CUDdEoqssu4+1gBjKZhs2Xerb787u9p04dbaQKqxsW5Rv+ftc7OlgqYrOTKxAicb4 YDgsuHov6TZVG7qy9qA1XeZIb8iA8MuFly8+TOt2z3kISGq08modz36VJZdEFXIXUlGajNmBx wsjpGqxFSOG9GQZnXQLixDdoAZ+DLk8apYeUvceIIVH9fZv2H0Uv64nQoDCInfKrXacSk8YnF ddoQes3+CS/VCzt+P1ohIADvRo9CVM0LIeAPMqmvcqT5KrPKNfETlGvlfQEAPYob0vj2Y3Win ttzX53lyg0UaoB+LO+dtzIzCftLulQp/HM2SAsF1jgqELzWO1SzW7aTwwFPp2NZsgSbPr5l48 sSn+xHbUH+hmBWFOISPTi3LHzHCpLEWmmn8P+ZSOkaq5Rwno6/AZWd5MapoiegbS0CKGmdLgZ eCzTfAvM3GjtYX15ZJIg/Iib0QPoTr6oho0r7bsMUFafxrIVSq9sx+OxjkFbvBk9qBPlC/XjR NIYB3ZNmnN2RZuLWUwxPDi/A7L0/WAP5lf9RWkwH7roEP/un6AK9A6ZY9h9asSylRMJN52gb3 eG90HMbl1OLwFM= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen , ejb@ql.org, 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: Hi Eli, > Michael, could you please suggest a patch along these lines? The > changeset which moved userlock--ask-user-about-supersession-threat > into Flock_file and put that under the create-lockfiles condition was > your change to support locking remote files. Will do. How urgent is this? I'd rather work on it tomorow. Best regards, Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 28 10:16:52 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Jan 2022 15:16:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60192 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDSzc-0004GU-Gh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 10:16:52 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53108) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDSza-0004BQ-SN for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 10:16:51 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=57250 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nDSzU-0004Ie-OC; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 10:16:45 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=XgHq3M6DshlTwp9Q0ofkKz2tykUVWlmAZvP1PlOIG1Y=; b=V2Jb4IhiifX2 L778ZWFOJqHXhvfY7oFum6RpgtWQXrUH9k2xg821cFE9k9bhkRP74bNG6ZYat6lv2tpkTomE0Awld PW9lxzN/TfzusG4an7b19rApwlBb6/sZfJzuEUkC/E0HNq618KgMzLquLgbYj2RgGI9KL3MYu7NiI kXVYB3+mkstj4sjJH9HP16mR0Tq59x3Gpv31fyNQ7A0SVmW313OaB7zkRZSNn6E+HCbajGWTKozBh wU1zFTqeYZd1xgUa9Ck4+PSQgT8Kg3hFtYA1jSBRG31E+IobPpWkzjsuQzbt2KGGItlFjhDebFF4R RqqlGTjNPaovKNzOhmTjuQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1664 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nDSzT-0004TR-H0; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 10:16:43 -0500 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 17:16:41 +0200 Message-Id: <83bkzvdh5y.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Michael Albinus In-Reply-To: <87leyz29jl.fsf@gmx.de> (message from Michael Albinus on Fri, 28 Jan 2022 15:56:46 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7a73fab.fsf@gnu.org> <87fspqz94l.fsf@gmx.de> <87v8ylmnie.fsf@gnus.org> <837db11he9.fsf@gnu.org> <83h79pdrlh.fsf@gnu.org> <877dakht8k.fsf@gnus.org> <83h79oc4qi.fsf@gnu.org> <87leyz29jl.fsf@gmx.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, ejb@ql.org, 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Michael Albinus > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , rgm@gnu.org, ejb@ql.org, > 53207@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 15:56:46 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > Hi Eli, > > > Michael, could you please suggest a patch along these lines? The > > changeset which moved userlock--ask-user-about-supersession-threat > > into Flock_file and put that under the create-lockfiles condition was > > your change to support locking remote files. > > Will do. How urgent is this? I'd rather work on it tomorow. Tomorrow is fine, thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 29 05:54:09 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jan 2022 10:54:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32797 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDlMv-0006KK-4T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 05:54:09 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:42887) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDlMs-0006Jo-LJ for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 05:54:07 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1643453637; bh=leWwYdpbUiPYGvYyCyS2+58OdbRBoM5q+BFPPi7ukwM=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=QGEUwsV9zTZYYH4bW86h+cmdN+FGFyE6qOxPxgmmvJ5bi5yQO6GeloOmW2ieRF83b geHbiq/YnN4Y2Xdw4mA/xvGmNAWiWATTRfRK0adcY8mMeFtc+CM7h0eIt/CENa+n0G 3jVRjZu7fedGwMwxvaelj5iwWQLX17AanKLrYXpM= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from gandalf.gmx.de ([79.140.118.102]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MOzSu-1msu2C3hW8-00PNZV; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 11:53:57 +0100 From: Michael Albinus To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7a73fab.fsf@gnu.org> <87fspqz94l.fsf@gmx.de> <87v8ylmnie.fsf@gnus.org> <837db11he9.fsf@gnu.org> <83h79pdrlh.fsf@gnu.org> <877dakht8k.fsf@gnus.org> <83h79oc4qi.fsf@gnu.org> <87leyz29jl.fsf@gmx.de> <83bkzvdh5y.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 11:53:55 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83bkzvdh5y.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 28 Jan 2022 17:16:41 +0200") Message-ID: <87h79m24os.fsf@gmx.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:gNuwAzUBf+t8BvzTktaMqg1W4DVgsTMo+ND0Y7nreHL2w5y8VV5 DthkEV1QzIn7tNb60avCI9FusXfKIc3Q4vQ7oken+dmODLVDONuB+PtCfa20S3N8JpMvjgu xH3Vn7P7uiq5qFoxIqC4SLnu6UxnwZrb8hUKgc8mUM7zHRDsuhPzEF7x+HW51Y1RSyNcpbx OSgy3sbIABjBu8jGk84iQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:nSJG9j2udMY=:yatmVO6DxjnE6Rq/6f2laU cCnxL72TDkV6tAx8fA8S22DWr0vJ5W9gaQOdFGdRGOecnni9L2QlVn3DJyKT8wIxB6MQ6BhKN dgmRZ7x4to/x/XrNXP7UXXZAS75VDsqUt/NYXEaXrk9ihwDsd83vt738UIOgO1wfd5HpdHQ7T Wy7r/wMRYDiFsXImpZtBP+Oj3c9CIiXMmWG7qkWpqV/WDDHH+uDeSqJSJ6XVgBVQnHkhrdtYF 16cSYuEwxahq3fvHLalRp47/xeYjxZafIPd7MoiPlPY0ca6dyZaZ1yuSyb6phOcAtNnNmBd1n DRObtl8Z+xn398K5o2Cmtuo6mlu/Gwl9j7z5AWhz/ZhD6yKsnLGN4oBky6zBsLF0DDL6JVuad oTT5CpMlgkz1yc9sMYNHgMiOCaL0I/vq8WLQBPYQBQwfUGZogdLVX2N904DFNOesJ5/VgKlUJ ky25rzgVu4dq/RQ/X2v+XjBws4kWtuHNkff6ipdNag2RqimFSdUkT0MtQ8wXxn5KSKNIKhDAV evzIZT1ZZcVVbciaVQlLBwlRz1T97OmEhWB53GUBrLJPBzoy4iqWNV/L4Aas8iA1rqZhv1/TF kgKM46AdZ++0VxTIbmI2TBTn92Q6koCeiRB55Yxv05giRcfHTOFYHjwOeRZ5mW1wSHLJTF/Fk NTZ6yS3/OcES8/z+QNoUxXslgUsKM30ZOna9RIg8uGQwkZI9HdGs/WyTEVUuLpWp61tYSZWeS eY5rVX/o8y+Od+ZqpYaUgJsGlOaX/dV+wB/XOo5hYLElaaiiKmQwOspSr7JWHAgHA10YqvPPg fLztjC2c60LDIOwWhF0sZehukSOeo6NqrBH9AvtKzqn8gq5KvciLdU4WiiOqxsxKvpCQUHiTN sWCtl1EK+2CLUh6La6XZ6A3webue35OLHzPJuThfb+uY0NFwyqCg3WhR22z3lDN5hEPXsQOiX AaXWxH2mHikKxqQuP13HgCuzI3Q7vE60NVLKJp+cdRqzwtt3FvW2VOpmOlHkM/qDqWf5RX6Ma ZsaNMOYnk4std1YIYt0nMcEWuw65dKeYDaHw/hhkV08cnyhWRMRvjv9z3aJbynH75zeBOD+sX Ma2Q5k4SLgUJVI= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, ejb@ql.org, 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: Hi everybody, >> > Michael, could you please suggest a patch along these lines? The >> > changeset which moved userlock--ask-user-about-supersession-threat >> > into Flock_file and put that under the create-lockfiles condition was >> > your change to support locking remote files. >> >> Will do. How urgent is this? I'd rather work on it tomorow. > > Tomorrow is fine, thanks. I've pushed ddba3c3dba to the emacs-28 branch. Tested with =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- # make -C test files-tests filelock-tests tramp-tests SELECTOR=3D'"lock"' =2D-8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- for regression. I've tested also the recipe of the OP, it works now as expected (like in Emacs 27.2). The recipe of the OP does not work yet for remote files. I'll continue to fix it, but this shouldn't stall the Emacs 28 release, because the regression tests work also for them. I'll keep the bug open, until this remote case has been fixed, too. Feedback, whether it works as expected, most welcome. Best regards, Michael. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 29 05:58:11 2022 Received: (at 53207) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jan 2022 10:58:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32802 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDlQp-0006Qs-Kw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 05:58:11 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47524) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nDlQn-0006Qg-P1 for 53207@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 05:58:10 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=49686 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nDlQi-0003gh-6f; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 05:58:04 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=h+xJIz+xmRIOFzucKUJtwUcWXTp5FI5wA/VJajHvHZQ=; b=YPx6+aSNwNtz 0IX0UZRvDgEQPUgUt/+aWctWKL3xjwXcyf/oBX/+rNWKTuz3NO40L7AhB7m0/I+r4fRiQvgC0UjZI efag6SkKm7qWUhGDfGytojUsI4hSVrxeU/tGYE+Io1xvpTTNG4cCHsPKxcL8/gb50/tE+szapZhoF 0hdJDEHzaV20dRT72abEJpkwTBL+9UsLqDxB4oVtKFoNrKAh09DLsX+Db9UK9G3UzwWwu/dxh/GL8 fXMJ7rPuqQ2wvQUZnmAT9KS9/zH0tmBk16iJHpV4OK0KvEHu9fw+ahWxwowdIJF6IKsB+VH2XAlXm SfYFcr2iJjkCsDt0XDxZBw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2325 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nDlQh-0000zS-DJ; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 05:58:03 -0500 Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 12:57:53 +0200 Message-Id: <83mtjebyha.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Michael Albinus In-Reply-To: <87h79m24os.fsf@gmx.de> (message from Michael Albinus on Sat, 29 Jan 2022 11:53:55 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7a73fab.fsf@gnu.org> <87fspqz94l.fsf@gmx.de> <87v8ylmnie.fsf@gnus.org> <837db11he9.fsf@gnu.org> <83h79pdrlh.fsf@gnu.org> <877dakht8k.fsf@gnus.org> <83h79oc4qi.fsf@gnu.org> <87leyz29jl.fsf@gmx.de> <83bkzvdh5y.fsf@gnu.org> <87h79m24os.fsf@gmx.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, ejb@ql.org, 53207@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Michael Albinus > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, rgm@gnu.org, ejb@ql.org, 53207@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 11:53:55 +0100 > > I've pushed ddba3c3dba to the emacs-28 branch. Tested with > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > # make -C test files-tests filelock-tests tramp-tests SELECTOR='"lock"' > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > for regression. I've tested also the recipe of the OP, it works now as > expected (like in Emacs 27.2). Thanks! > The recipe of the OP does not work yet for remote files. I'll continue > to fix it, but this shouldn't stall the Emacs 28 release, because the > regression tests work also for them. I'll keep the bug open, until this > remote case has been fixed, too. Agreed. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 03 08:31:47 2022 Received: (at 53207-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Feb 2022 13:31:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54859 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nFcDD-0001am-2E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2022 08:31:47 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:39837) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nFcDA-0001aP-Rr for 53207-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 03 Feb 2022 08:31:45 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1643895096; bh=05JXKR6POetuOe0XR34SciZbbMxdGsdrdl2dggzoMw8=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=cXXSBaO8xL5l6dYnqb6rGLWP24oRtYKyKrHqQ46PY4yMzwTHJ1za8bNr5yAR86whS 5na4cAw6Ns38uYPe7CBEVuiqWdYq6SlLw7OGqtTJv8HiaOVZhjXOw4ebeMhLTF9QA3 aYv2hwHvi5OeTwaYi2oUt6AGc/uAwcDdvFzYoivM= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from gandalf.gmx.de ([213.220.159.97]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Mqs4f-1mSp303QMD-00mt8D; Thu, 03 Feb 2022 14:31:35 +0100 From: Michael Albinus To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#53207: 28.0.91; create-lockfiles nil breaks file change detection References: <509ddd0f-589c-45b0-9b60-5820f4c1d716@www.fastmail.com> <83sftr3nyx.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7a73fab.fsf@gnu.org> <87fspqz94l.fsf@gmx.de> <87v8ylmnie.fsf@gnus.org> <837db11he9.fsf@gnu.org> <83h79pdrlh.fsf@gnu.org> <877dakht8k.fsf@gnus.org> <83h79oc4qi.fsf@gnu.org> <87leyz29jl.fsf@gmx.de> <83bkzvdh5y.fsf@gnu.org> <87h79m24os.fsf@gmx.de> <83mtjebyha.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2022 14:31:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83mtjebyha.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 29 Jan 2022 12:57:53 +0200") Message-ID: <877dacoz49.fsf@gmx.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:mQtzuBmJ0GCzT0fFWHJxFi7HVEHH7YUktrn3uKdzPWEPv0uyZgN YrcR+0FusW0LqnLw7pnwq2WwvFZXZPwaU8TE71DPwoMmQOpISqRz4Q/kuwyETvHafiY92kb EbIlNmxx0/k60HB7Pqe3xSGkvsIsJ5HZ634Ff5lx8kJATR9f7mFnQi6d56olZ8+4fF8rgrG +uugtazIvzyOa7KP6f/Cw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Nm6tPJmBPGE=:yszf1xe/RKGRkmlpBxpLMX vNHJ16AYLB9eUGddVQ1213h9tndLzFWlhfPxKlkcRHSwnCqvSRR3KPVZND3m0wYhV70pOpMtS lNyvOQgjg2K+nkUh46tMn1RfewhsOcE1gOqiQwibqvFn4uw6nzNPTd/752QpQ37G9TCE685Vv 0vO8fgOoE65tsbTsBxsgKqoiv/MA2WiUhM7PWvzw4MQklRTUOqIXzYvrUMtUl+1/XzTOhKabs 4+QIwEJs1QdOQFgC78YAb8noR4GL9IK8ya+ITJ/C/rOBaVa3ztjo7X62El2RlaKavbMsxWXC+ GjF+wqSleC6CD/yxgfCFhdE2MtLQNtLgobP0sGpSXLIz63lQvztdDsJj/Bg+1f8qJ9Ws6iHmX NNNeKLulQdIfcQZMxckJb7EPdKLd56e7eY5ygkz47SEzdYMQLIw8IYNlOcUvEdud6S5Xsa8Pt m2ss9fjdpUs2g9o2GsXkaiitrnDnanprM30MUjha8TXay7Qu5vV+zDgf8N74NUmcuNMscVSO4 PmTOkUwFjN1cRnQ3iV9fFiCZXld609CGR30tYTRrlqCfwRG50GKrjjuWByosNtNvFSSJXdeuA Eu+oQt0MohERaAMym4UvhYZMlP8JE4djhcGXhjJ7Jo6uM7+xuslL9mlkoZZBjGsCMRGz58WrX kvgybnSDYIYjZUJSBjFoHlTKFypmT7XrQw0xB1ExMCVtccJPqG9CU7Vx5J6fqO5dnsALbfAlZ DuTY3xHAFx8AVhCJqbqhlDIXmI4ZRaALfLCVWO8CWg1ULSgIU6gnXe/umcmKmN+Xk/yOfi3f2 JhED7M1W7/QygjKqWefcBEVOzvnoy7R3WZbnyWhMzkNzkXS3hrViGda33dPE8eahezC/6Qczh 5Soiu1p2GjQjczw05jBXcsvOm3e58a66R68fY/SBcNJAnBGCdsR0u6feu8V9QbqM1DUJS8d1r 07dFYgEKh6Qj+eSVuF2PwfHQYRWcOInT7fi3xfifneazHkbhHNy20J/49PfaVABhxMvkN8K1n 9a3UPs7k6NUyDKVviUPtg4FKRJLahfHFKKoUj9AFO+NMMOviLxvaW7Uum7W0nBSO28sRPNf++ HlxsEWL6LnvPj8= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53207-done Cc: rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, ejb@ql.org, 53207-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Version 28.1 Eli Zaretskii writes: Hi, >> I've pushed ddba3c3dba to the emacs-28 branch. Tested with >> >> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- >> # make -C test files-tests filelock-tests tramp-tests SELECTOR=3D'"lock= "' >> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- >> >> for regression. I've tested also the recipe of the OP, it works now as >> expected (like in Emacs 27.2). I've added also a new test filelock-tests-detect-external-change on the master branch, which checks the scenario of this bug. I haven't done this for the emacs-28 branch, because it would need a slightly different implementation. Doing the test on the master branch shall suffice, I belie= ve. >> The recipe of the OP does not work yet for remote files. I'll continue >> to fix it, but this shouldn't stall the Emacs 28 release, because the >> regression tests work also for them. I'll keep the bug open, until this >> remote case has been fixed, too. > > Agreed. Implementation for Tramp, plus a Tramp specific new test, has also been pushed to the master branch. This is also kept in Tramp's branch-2-5-stable branch, which means that it will appear with the next Tramp ELPA package 2.5.2.2, and it will be merged to the emacs-28 branch after the Emacs 28.1 release. Closing the bug. Best regards, Michael. From unknown Wed Jun 18 23:06:52 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2022 12:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator