From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:26:22 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53158: 28.0.90; TAB, RET key behave differently for Git-Log-View, Outline View mode Resent-From: Van Ly Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:22:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 53158 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 53158@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.164182447526417 (code B ref -1); Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:22:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2022 14:21:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52027 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n6vXv-0006ry-7Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 09:21:15 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:33046) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n6vXp-0006rd-Mw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 09:21:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48918) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n6vXd-0007dD-6u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 09:21:03 -0500 Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:55494) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n6vXT-00052N-Vl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 09:20:56 -0500 Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:van.ly@faeroes.freeshell.org [205.166.94.9]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 20AEKQp2003869 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO) for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:20:27 GMT Received: from localhost (van.ly@localhost) by sdf.org (8.15.2/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id 20AEKPUp012079 for ; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:20:25 GMT Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:20:25 +0000 (UTC) From: Van Ly Message-ID: Organization: Super Dimensional Fortress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-1607536131-1641824425=:16901" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.166.94.24; envelope-from=van.ly@sdf.org; helo=mx.sdf.org X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1607536131-1641824425=:16901 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Hello, The TAB and RET key behave differently for Git-Log-View mode and Outline View mode. If TAB will consistently expand and collapse the bullet point on the tree and RET will consistently do across the two modes whatever the similar thing is, that will improve the UI. Having consistent keybindings in modes for navigating bullet points on trees in general will greatly improve the UI experience. A under Git-Log-View mode * TAB (translated from ) runs the command log-view-msg-next * RET (translated from ) runs the command log-view-toggle-entry-display B under Outline View mode * TAB (translated from ) runs the command outline-cycle * RET (translated from ) runs the command View-scroll-line-forward steps to reproduce in Git-Log-View mode * open emacs by 'emacs -Q' * goto emacs source directory * apply C-x v l runs the command vc-print-log * goto the first line with a bullet point * goto A and perform TAB, RET steps to reproduce in Outline View mode * open emacs by 'emacs -Q' * view file emacs/admin/README * apply C-c C-t runs the command outline-hide-body * goto the first line with a bullet point * goto B and perform TAB, RET observed behavior * TAB, RET key behave differently for expanding and collapsing the bullet point in the two modes expected behavior * TAB, RET key behave consistently on bullet point headlines across the two modes -- vl --0-1607536131-1641824425=:16901 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submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 12:54:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48132) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n6ys4-0004vj-Re for 53158@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 12:54:18 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=52420 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n6yrz-0006Oo-IC; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 12:54:11 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=MOT696NvVnt2mW/s65waYeXZFurRiB0tjy7PLY+KAp0=; b=NovYmGsXbXSi fjrHItxNZ8fZpCfbYtOt2P4ljvs+yOZgBGjtEDqnykj+/1StT6cOLpwrDGpxsr1Y8y7eUAGNnGyL/ DTzQu7XU8wp9Wf2GvLkNwMz8bf8zOPpioIhlZ/T4VlB3FF6PHN7axSSq1v44MW1ZLOBvEPDvpXc6T ce35YTf+F8B+4QHS3p9p/hbKEmRAqtsXZW/y0P3syv72S9R3NnKiGXxMHKl/gk02SqvMT5JM3pZcE Dfknb2ltSRcIJYMz0NK5nLdTPUtVtuSGIU8Leu2YJxSSytuGwYB3KgdJyhj6hus5yhvD/BT4J53Xn znkRDaliFhEjPUDaL0v9pA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4362 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n6yrz-0004Ki-Gn; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 12:54:11 -0500 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:54:01 +0200 Message-Id: <83zgo38ojq.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Van Ly on Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:20:25 +0000 (UTC)) References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:20:25 +0000 (UTC) > From: Van Ly > > observed behavior > * TAB, RET key behave differently for expanding and collapsing the bullet point in the two modes > > expected behavior > * TAB, RET key behave consistently on bullet point headlines across the two modes There's absolute no guarantee in Emacs that a key behaves the same in tow different modes. Even if those two modes can be argued to be similar in some sense. From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:26:22 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53158: 28.0.90; TAB, RET key behave differently for Git-Log-View, Outline View mode Resent-From: Van Ly Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:37:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53158 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 53158@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53158-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53158.164184340929196 (code B ref 53158); Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:37:01 +0000 Received: (at 53158) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2022 19:36:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53335 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n70TJ-0007aq-0K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:36:49 -0500 Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:59596) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n70TH-0007ag-9o for 53158@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:36:48 -0500 Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:van.ly@faeroes.freeshell.org [205.166.94.9]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 20AJajF3016609 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:36:46 GMT Received: from localhost (van.ly@localhost) by sdf.org (8.15.2/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id 20AJahYk011164; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:36:43 GMT Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:36:43 +0000 (UTC) From: Van Ly In-Reply-To: <83zgo38ojq.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <83zgo38ojq.fsf@gnu.org> Organization: Super Dimensional Fortress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Mon, 10 Jan 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:20:25 +0000 (UTC) >> From: Van Ly >> >> observed behavior >> * TAB, RET key behave differently for expanding and collapsing the bullet point in the two modes >> >> expected behavior >> * TAB, RET key behave consistently on bullet point headlines across the two modes > > There's absolute no guarantee in Emacs that a key behaves the same in > tow different modes. Even if those two modes can be argued to be > similar in some sense. > Yes, I know. Emacs unboxes with unpleasant defaults. I was pleasantly surprised TAB expands and collapses the bullet point in Outline View mode. If memory serves. I used to have to look up how to do that. What key to use. Maybe the TAB behavior was pulled from Org mode to Outline mode. Having the same key to expand, collapse the bullet point headline is the "Right thing to do(R)[TM]". Perhaps, there could be configuration infrastructure policy overlay for having bullet points expand, collapse with the same key. I would use that to page up/down View mode with B and SPC everywhere. possible expand, collapse keybindings for bullet point headline * TAB * RET * SPC CORRECTION > steps to reproduce in Git-Log-View mode > * open emacs by 'emacs -Q' > * goto emacs source directory * apply C-x v L runs the command vc-print-root-log > * goto the first line with a bullet point > * goto A and perform TAB, RET -- vl From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:26:22 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53158: 28.0.90; TAB, RET key behave differently for Git-Log-View, Outline View mode Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:54:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53158 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Van Ly Cc: 53158@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Received: via spool by 53158-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53158.164184444030997 (code B ref 53158); Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:54:01 +0000 Received: (at 53158) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2022 19:54:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53356 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n70jv-00083t-Ol for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:53:59 -0500 Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.232]:35577) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n70jt-00083S-Sj for 53158@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:53:58 -0500 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 02738200009; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:53:47 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <83zgo38ojq.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 21:52:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Van Ly's message of "Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:36:43 +0000 (UTC)") Message-ID: <8635lvxt9v.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > Emacs unboxes with unpleasant defaults. I was pleasantly > surprised TAB expands and collapses the bullet point in Outline View mode. > If memory serves. I used to have to look up how to do that. What key to > use. Maybe the TAB behavior was pulled from Org mode to Outline mode. > Having the same key to expand, collapse the bullet point headline is the > "Right thing to do(R)[TM]". > > Perhaps, there could be configuration infrastructure policy overlay for > having bullet points expand, collapse with the same key. I would use that > to page up/down View mode with B and SPC everywhere. We were hit by this unpleasant problem in diff-mode with outline-minor-mode. In diff-mode TAB moves point to the next hunk, because in browsers TAB moves to the next link. But in outline-minor-mode TAB should expand and collapse on the heading because TAB does this in Org mode. So we were forced to add such filter: (defcustom outline-minor-mode-cycle-filter nil "Filter out positions on the heading available for cycling." :type '(choice (const :tag "Everywhere" nil) (const :tag "At line beginning" bolp) (const :tag "Not at line beginning" (lambda () (not (bolp)))) (const :tag "At line end" eolp) Then you can choose: when point is at the beginning of the outline heading, TAB can expand and collapse outlines, when point is not at the line beginning, TAB moves to the next hunk. From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:26:22 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53158: 28.0.90; TAB, RET key behave differently for Git-Log-View, Outline View mode Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:00:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53158 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Van Ly Cc: 53158@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53158-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53158.164184478831541 (code B ref 53158); Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:00:03 +0000 Received: (at 53158) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2022 19:59:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53363 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n70pY-0008Cf-DU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:59:48 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54250) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n70pV-0008CP-OU for 53158@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:59:46 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=55622 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n70pQ-0003Br-Eq; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:59:40 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=tO+4lLlOd0RLSg1hA1QGaR29AcbBWpKnPCEqcgD8G+U=; b=qPFHbIMKNbXq SSdVJieZcozidLL/a+VUIDVIYrXoHX9aDdOJqymmuCzpJFkhdF5FInztwlmfp/6BvIpE0NB0w3maL kuXVUWHmvQCp1lVDCfgRXFKNoT8N5dqlo02ig6d/DhJhnDN8yzJkw+ITls2GYOdCkGXqWbxQnKMxm Mjdbkyi6pi9XNgVhAr9tGVC9i/fYKLycq/M+g6w62r2gZSgS0c9TTq8BWi00tJuUrcjF3e8lfgUZ5 3hebQU51CFvFogs7yeRYY0AueByoUGibInZMuE0G+wHyKao6O6oAnQGkK9GJpTnF+aMeS0/ssHAQk RYGgmg2m/p//npo5Fj8vNg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2675 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n70pQ-00007T-1w; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 14:59:40 -0500 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 21:59:30 +0200 Message-Id: <83h7ab8iql.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Van Ly on Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:36:43 +0000 (UTC)) References: <83zgo38ojq.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:36:43 +0000 (UTC) > From: Van Ly > cc: 53158@debbugs.gnu.org > > > There's absolute no guarantee in Emacs that a key behaves the same in > > tow different modes. Even if those two modes can be argued to be > > similar in some sense. > > > > Yes, I know. Emacs unboxes with unpleasant defaults. Is that some new way of convincing the maintainers to be more amenable to your opinions and suggestions? If so, it isn't working. > I was pleasantly surprised TAB expands and collapses the bullet > point in Outline View mode. If memory serves. I used to have to > look up how to do that. What key to use. Maybe the TAB behavior > was pulled from Org mode to Outline mode. Having the same key to > expand, collapse the bullet point headline is the "Right thing to > do(R)[TM]". > > Perhaps, there could be configuration infrastructure policy overlay > for having bullet points expand, collapse with the same key. I would > use that to page up/down View mode with B and SPC everywhere. > > possible expand, collapse keybindings for bullet point headline > * TAB > * RET > * SPC > > CORRECTION > > steps to reproduce in Git-Log-View mode > > * open emacs by 'emacs -Q' > > * goto emacs source directory > * apply C-x v L runs the command vc-print-root-log > > * goto the first line with a bullet point > > * goto A and perform TAB, RET A TAB as a means to cycle visibility could be a natural thing in outline modes, but log-view-mode is not an outline mode, it's derived from different parents. From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:26:22 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53158: 28.0.90; TAB, RET key behave differently for Git-Log-View, Outline View mode Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:07:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53158 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Juri Linkov Cc: van.ly@sdf.org, 53158@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53158-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53158.164184520432288 (code B ref 53158); Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:07:02 +0000 Received: (at 53158) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2022 20:06:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53369 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n70wG-0008Oh-8B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 15:06:44 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55912) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n70wE-0008OV-6f for 53158@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 15:06:42 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=55850 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n70w8-0004LW-Iq; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 15:06:36 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=kw2ByOxwqwdRlbLSic/4hVpc342dot49haB4uP9NcxQ=; b=MEpSdBhBnjZt 7f5xQOeRCgFQCr/XN/ELnItVJihZ0d98gHRvAJVqc0ez0sdB0yzOT8CqHlD9L7f6MeNuxD0nQx5LV jDEuDqa9dJYGkbTWiL8C8026cenGqnTYTZrvoypLpp5PmKVwHPxgZ7QqwccmwtLxyuZglGQ540OTm Sm8e9CvTD0J3I15/s/MByvIOtuOVO6GzSr5OuTpI3FKxF6gB1wZP2v8ntq5bAyMYdbwY2LUjLuQ7W VH8VYU2dFCcS/RTmpTerP6rJsZY53zqhqMnaFAE9w1cVFzrVUSiEm/YJOv1+pu1+SgOSp540fsmZR uM69ujg9Ktp6s7/9o/IXOg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3110 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n70w8-0002Es-Iq; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 15:06:36 -0500 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 22:06:27 +0200 Message-Id: <83fspv8if0.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <8635lvxt9v.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Mon, 10 Jan 2022 21:52:44 +0200) References: <83zgo38ojq.fsf@gnu.org> <8635lvxt9v.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 53158@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 21:52:44 +0200 > > Then you can choose: when point is at the beginning of the outline heading, > TAB can expand and collapse outlines, when point is not at the line beginning, > TAB moves to the next hunk. FWIW, I consider this not a good UI. Having point one column to the left or to the right of where you want to be is quite frequent, so making a key sequence produce a very different effect depending on that is far from being the best idea, IMO. To me, this tells that these two modes, and the user expectations and habits to go with them, are simply incompatible, and we shouldn't try mixing them. If someone wants a diff-mode-like outline mode, let's make such a mode, and leave the original diff-mode alone. From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:26:22 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53158: 28.0.90; TAB, RET key behave differently for Git-Log-View, Outline View mode Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:20:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53158 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: van.ly@sdf.org, 53158@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53158-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53158.16418459511021 (code B ref 53158); Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:20:02 +0000 Received: (at 53158) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2022 20:19:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53373 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n718J-0000GM-Ck for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 15:19:11 -0500 Received: from relay9-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.199]:56741) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n718F-0000G5-RF for 53158@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 15:19:10 -0500 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay9-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 95FDEFF802; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:18:56 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <83zgo38ojq.fsf@gnu.org> <8635lvxt9v.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fspv8if0.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 22:18:40 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83fspv8if0.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 10 Jan 2022 22:06:27 +0200") Message-ID: <86k0f7wdi7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> Then you can choose: when point is at the beginning of the outline heading, >> TAB can expand and collapse outlines, when point is not at the line beginning, >> TAB moves to the next hunk. > > FWIW, I consider this not a good UI. Having point one column to the > left or to the right of where you want to be is quite frequent, so > making a key sequence produce a very different effect depending on > that is far from being the best idea, IMO. Of course, it's not a good UI - it's a trade-off. > To me, this tells that these two modes, and the user expectations and > habits to go with them, are simply incompatible, and we shouldn't try > mixing them. If someone wants a diff-mode-like outline mode, let's > make such a mode, and leave the original diff-mode alone. This problem is not specific to diff-mode. From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:26:22 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53158: 28.0.90; TAB, RET key behave differently for Git-Log-View, Outline View mode Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:23:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53158 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Juri Linkov Cc: van.ly@sdf.org, 53158@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53158-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53158.16418461441367 (code B ref 53158); Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:23:01 +0000 Received: (at 53158) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2022 20:22:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53383 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n71BQ-0000Lz-8r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 15:22:24 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59132) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n71BM-0000Lj-Np for 53158@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 15:22:22 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=56430 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n71BH-0006o5-A1; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 15:22:15 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=U3XWJL20+UzPt5mVd0tyY0MzfxZK6RAI8kHx6L5yDCA=; b=WpCZMsWEn6Tn QxteS6rZ1GlYL2YdAfr2gl7wfb6fDZkG8kFQ8PFwaGt6TVfszsj3xDk8VUOzPOnI5V3Fs7OikZoTF 3/OggY/dvQlr/F8jBh+QOZQS1RqlJioyepOqinYJSVAwE9ib4ivH/JG+6t0VbPnkI/lYZEEkhOl5R Xg3uA9B0/fCuN5cZRgcE/oWJwsxalvPgFPQRO9Mg2y7uPAtvc6cZXRk27zwHnPHizeDbfCnFVzmZX arpwI8rwTkP9DO3WLfQT+9IHoL8qdd6OKO1O1jd8bIDkCE3QOUQJDoWHawmousB2Lp+ogfDH2xNTt A2JUXvvFiFHKLT4V4LA2RQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4060 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n71BH-0008D0-7V; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 15:22:15 -0500 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 22:22:04 +0200 Message-Id: <83ee5f8hoz.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <86k0f7wdi7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Mon, 10 Jan 2022 22:18:40 +0200) References: <83zgo38ojq.fsf@gnu.org> <8635lvxt9v.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83fspv8if0.fsf@gnu.org> <86k0f7wdi7.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: van.ly@sdf.org, 53158@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 22:18:40 +0200 > > > To me, this tells that these two modes, and the user expectations and > > habits to go with them, are simply incompatible, and we shouldn't try > > mixing them. If someone wants a diff-mode-like outline mode, let's > > make such a mode, and leave the original diff-mode alone. > > This problem is not specific to diff-mode. It was just an example. There's no limit on the number of modes we can have in Emacs. From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:26:22 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53158: 28.0.90; TAB, RET key behave differently for Git-Log-View, Outline View mode Resent-From: Van Ly Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 21:00:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53158 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 53158@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53158-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53158.16418483445006 (code B ref 53158); Mon, 10 Jan 2022 21:00:02 +0000 Received: (at 53158) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2022 20:59:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53397 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n71kt-0001Ig-Ps for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 15:59:03 -0500 Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:53159) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n71ko-0001IE-NR for 53158@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 15:59:02 -0500 Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:van.ly@sdf.org [205.166.94.16]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 20AKwvb8022671 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:58:57 GMT Received: from localhost (van.ly@localhost) by sdf.org (8.15.2/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id 20AKx0j8013542; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:59:00 GMT Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:59:00 +0000 (UTC) From: Van Ly In-Reply-To: <83h7ab8iql.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <24ff80-a2f2-955b-4ff3-6d5b20a4b5f@SDF.ORG> References: <83zgo38ojq.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7ab8iql.fsf@gnu.org> Organization: Super Dimensional Fortress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Mon, 10 Jan 2022, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 19:36:43 +0000 (UTC) >> From: Van Ly >> cc: 53158@debbugs.gnu.org >> >>> There's absolute no guarantee in Emacs that a key behaves the same in >>> tow different modes. Even if those two modes can be argued to be >>> similar in some sense. >>> >> >> Yes, I know. Emacs unboxes with unpleasant defaults. > > Is that some new way of convincing the maintainers to be more amenable > to your opinions and suggestions? If so, it isn't working. > A pearl comes from an irritant in the shell. > > A TAB as a means to cycle visibility could be a natural thing in > outline modes, but log-view-mode is not an outline mode, it's derived > from different parents. > Having the same keybinding function on the aster at position one on the line to unroll/rollup the headline/detail is an opportunity for improving the UI intuitivity across these two modes. From an enduser perspective. -- vl From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:26:22 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53158: 28.0.90; TAB, RET key behave differently for Git-Log-View, Outline View mode Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 03:26:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53158 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Van Ly Cc: 53158@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53158-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53158.164187154229775 (code B ref 53158); Tue, 11 Jan 2022 03:26:01 +0000 Received: (at 53158) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jan 2022 03:25:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53741 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n77n4-0007kB-Gr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 22:25:42 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60232) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n77n1-0007jv-O7 for 53158@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 22:25:40 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=37090 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n77mw-0000a8-H3; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 22:25:34 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=UrSe5W5rkLcx+PnvBcQVPTZ/lpGtk6rjjxjUCJJEtGE=; b=TKgPeyz1n1wm PaabhLHH9kOWNUCDrBtx+4UKR4P6Mymu63hulcAXlgOGgERScQVDQf/tzzByghbk1osBGjJayw8O7 1Qa3wNWnjviGhgBRjUHPS5wHr3tx04a744jb7By3TF20OHUQbe2SmXgMKqUZlz4VgdFl8q3FG15CB by5efSfCwLRjR5T0BnPOKml1bwnVIcXYjyE94xnszOy8VboucZrr0GjP6vwiIR+rx1yMocnRYJQvq ocaDh0r8iuEYK5G9BI1qOtL+/r3XerIAkNwHIGv2Fgen1/B0JXrW+UVQivUNBrIZ9VAbmJrRJiAkb taCNxk4EX96ege8n2QaKTA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2041 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n77mi-0006sO-SP; Mon, 10 Jan 2022 22:25:34 -0500 Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 05:25:12 +0200 Message-Id: <83czkz7y3r.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <24ff80-a2f2-955b-4ff3-6d5b20a4b5f@SDF.ORG> (message from Van Ly on Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:59:00 +0000 (UTC)) References: <83zgo38ojq.fsf@gnu.org> <83h7ab8iql.fsf@gnu.org> <24ff80-a2f2-955b-4ff3-6d5b20a4b5f@SDF.ORG> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:59:00 +0000 (UTC) > From: Van Ly > cc: 53158@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> Yes, I know. Emacs unboxes with unpleasant defaults. > > > > Is that some new way of convincing the maintainers to be more amenable > > to your opinions and suggestions? If so, it isn't working. > > > > A pearl comes from an irritant in the shell. Only from some irritants. > > A TAB as a means to cycle visibility could be a natural thing in > > outline modes, but log-view-mode is not an outline mode, it's derived > > from different parents. > > Having the same keybinding function on the aster at position one on > the line to unroll/rollup the headline/detail is an opportunity > for improving the UI intuitivity across these two modes. From an > enduser perspective. I'm an end-user as well, please don't forget that. From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:26:22 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53158: 28.0.90; TAB, RET key behave differently for Git-Log-View, Outline View mode Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 09:06:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53158 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Juri Linkov Cc: Van Ly , Eli Zaretskii , 53158@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 53158-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53158.16420647593401 (code B ref 53158); Thu, 13 Jan 2022 09:06:02 +0000 Received: (at 53158) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2022 09:05:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60152 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7w3S-0000sn-Vd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 04:05:59 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:52024) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7w3O-0000sL-Ad for 53158@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 04:05:58 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=4kG4etuGc10lEg/C6Z5qx0vU59KBdTvDHyA/YHVHP10=; b=OGofsz9sQXgUMmc7kJ8mb8l1rt 2qUkb1is8pDuOkZwAp/EsbphIU1yeVt/GV/vpZUSAkpEs1NIEYGM//tkhRZgGaT38l0vuphRTtN1Q 6bV3tQQm1/5KP0mAQxlvUZQN1LcObyw8DhqR8MD3kClls5+Hg8Yvaiq2fNdohRDeuT+w=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n7w3E-0000mN-TA; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:05:47 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <83zgo38ojq.fsf@gnu.org> <8635lvxt9v.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Now-Playing: A Certain Ratio's _Loco Remezclada_: "Friends Around Us (Lounge Society Remix)" Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:05:43 +0100 In-Reply-To: <8635lvxt9v.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Mon, 10 Jan 2022 21:52:44 +0200") Message-ID: <87bl0g6m54.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: > We were hit by this unpleasant problem in diff-mode with outline-minor-mode. > In diff-mode TAB moves point to the next hunk, because in browsers TAB moves > to the next link. But in outline-minor-m [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Juri Linkov writes: > We were hit by this unpleasant problem in diff-mode with outline-minor-mode. > In diff-mode TAB moves point to the next hunk, because in browsers TAB moves > to the next link. But in outline-minor-mode TAB should expand and collapse > on the heading because TAB does this in Org mode. I think it's unfortunate that outline minor mode uses TAB, because it crashes with so much else we're using that key for. But I guess there's not much we can do about it at this point. > So we were forced to add such filter: > > (defcustom outline-minor-mode-cycle-filter nil > "Filter out positions on the heading available for cycling." > :type '(choice (const :tag "Everywhere" nil) > (const :tag "At line beginning" bolp) > (const :tag "Not at line beginning" > (lambda () (not (bolp)))) > (const :tag "At line end" eolp) > > Then you can choose: when point is at the beginning of the outline heading, > TAB can expand and collapse outlines, when point is not at the line beginning, > TAB moves to the next hunk. Yup. So I think that's the workaround here, and there's nothing really to be done in this bug report, so I'm closing it. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 13 04:06:01 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2022 09:06:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60155 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7w3V-0000t1-77 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 04:06:01 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:52038) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7w3T-0000sU-CJ for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 04:05:59 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=4Rowpe3fSUpM0FgE8zE3rjomCqgQuIiMAxO/mgZun3Q=; b=K7WNuJVg432Q+tuqb0ICvmFQVn 0DV/ewepmi9cPJFkNrZVfU+6PDam3bR98Sv3yd+lxEjF8a2wdFHN7vJxCEx8JCHMySgL8N3SNhIjN O8ZOccF89mLTbpb7OUFaFhHnJaykd5xrJOvLB9pQpLQIbySP46kwTYrxSdJ3QEfLwM+I=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n7w3L-0000mU-KC for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:05:53 +0100 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 10:05:51 +0100 Message-Id: <87a6g06m4w.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #53158 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 53158 wontfix close 53158 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 53158 wontfix close 53158 quit From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:26:22 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53158: 28.0.90; TAB, RET key behave differently for Git-Log-View, Outline View mode Resent-From: Van Ly Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 09:33:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53158 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: 53158@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Juri Linkov Received: via spool by 53158-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B53158.164206637615133 (code B ref 53158); Thu, 13 Jan 2022 09:33:01 +0000 Received: (at 53158) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2022 09:32:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60215 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7wTX-0003w0-Lw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 04:32:55 -0500 Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:50802) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n7wTR-0003vm-LS for 53158@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 04:32:54 -0500 Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:van.ly@faeroes.freeshell.org [205.166.94.9]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 20D9Wljk027667 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Thu, 13 Jan 2022 09:32:48 GMT Received: from localhost (van.ly@localhost) by sdf.org (8.15.2/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id 20D9WjS9022060; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 09:32:45 GMT Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2022 09:32:45 +0000 (UTC) From: Van Ly In-Reply-To: <87bl0g6m54.fsf@gnus.org> Message-ID: <8730137e-471-daa1-d4a6-db668ee46f0@SDF.ORG> References: <83zgo38ojq.fsf@gnu.org> <8635lvxt9v.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87bl0g6m54.fsf@gnus.org> Organization: Super Dimensional Fortress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Thu, 13 Jan 2022, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Juri Linkov writes: > >> We were hit by this unpleasant problem in diff-mode with outline-minor-mode. >> In diff-mode TAB moves point to the next hunk, because in browsers TAB moves >> to the next link. But in outline-minor-mode TAB should expand and collapse >> on the heading because TAB does this in Org mode. > > I think it's unfortunate that outline minor mode uses TAB, because it > crashes with so much else we're using that key for. But I guess > there's not much we can do about it at this point. > I think outline minor mode and org mode should coordinate to work well with diff-mode TAB moves. Use TAB and S-TAB for moving forward and backward to points of interest. Use ` immediately above the TAB for operating on that context. What you can do is have a file for design language roadmap guidance forward to overtime have contributors align how the TAB is to be used and phase in new behavior. Give it 18-months to align and grandfather in old behavior people have grown callous for and are insensitive to pain point. -- vl From unknown Sat Jun 21 03:26:22 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#53158: 28.0.90; TAB, RET key behave differently for Git-Log-View, Outline View mode In-Reply-To: Resent-From: Howard Melman Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 15:37:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 53158 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix To: 53158@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.16421746007685 (code B ref -1); Fri, 14 Jan 2022 15:37:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2022 15:36:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37869 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8Od5-0001zt-ND for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:36:39 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:59866) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8Od1-0001ze-6X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:36:38 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39174) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n8Od0-0006VY-SH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:36:34 -0500 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:53056) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n8Ocz-0000Sg-6R for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:36:34 -0500 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n8Ocw-0005Wo-JI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 16:36:30 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ From: Howard Melman Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:36:21 -0500 Message-ID: References: <83zgo38ojq.fsf@gnu.org> <8635lvxt9v.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87bl0g6m54.fsf@gnus.org> <8730137e-471-daa1-d4a6-db668ee46f0@SDF.ORG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:lXcUNtxlrYUmOOopCKVVspJ54h8= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 5 X-Spam_score: 0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.248, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) Van Ly writes: > On Thu, 13 Jan 2022, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > >> Juri Linkov writes: >> >>> We were hit by this unpleasant problem in diff-mode with >>> outline-minor-mode. In diff-mode TAB moves point to the >>> next hunk, because in browsers TAB moves to the next >>> link. But in outline-minor-mode TAB should expand and >>> collapse on the heading because TAB does this in Org >>> mode. >> >> I think it's unfortunate that outline minor mode uses >> TAB, because it crashes with so much else we're using >> that key for. But I guess there's not much we can do >> about it at this point. >> > > I think outline minor mode and org mode should coordinate > to work well with diff-mode TAB moves. Use TAB and S-TAB > for moving forward and backward to points of interest. > Use ` immediately above the TAB for operating on that > context. What you can do is have a file for design > language roadmap guidance forward to overtime have > contributors align how the TAB is to be used and phase in > new behavior. Give it 18-months to align and grandfather > in old behavior people have grown callous for and are > insensitive to pain point. When I originally proposed the outline cycling commands I suggested C-TAB and S-TAB which I've been using for several years. C-TAB was rejected because it doesn't work in the terminal. I'm GUI only (macport) and haven't tried Emacs 28 yet, but if I find TAB conflicting with things, I hope it's easy for me to change it to C-TAB and have it work anywhere on the line. I understand not wanting terminal to be a second-class citizen (and that it has many users), but I wish its limitations weren't so constraining on the GUI. -- Howard