From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 30 15:17:54 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Dec 2021 20:17:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54534 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n31s2-00014F-Aa for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 15:17:54 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:54050) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n31s0-000141-T4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 15:17:53 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49324) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n31s0-0006nn-Hk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 15:17:52 -0500 Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.24]:43215) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n31ry-0007sL-BC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 15:17:52 -0500 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F8D33201B5C for ; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 15:17:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 30 Dec 2021 15:17:47 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=secretsauce.net; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s= fm2; bh=1waDqMf/FHkh8jQpmpRTnlUAjYrYilXkVAXnzLOtOI4=; b=TINLGmBA VreGViioOwWcFgwcHYJhTBsnuJ7j+lRfwtW867tarTpveTuDts0w6sFgmhzVKcIy 8woeUArV5+GwOjQy0022CcJZiPAhmUjjLA9unPwWKJDxQlG6uvuuRVG0/jrooIlS IOuK3WMRsaPIaqlEBJ9k1Pq+vHbnEw517celTFoB5R4SPN7/v3/Z7lw4D5pkub+Z lO+yFkMfCCP89wVS4M68flumgMle4b0Ite44hE9SFVU9KC9XvHsd85W0WR3dHuR5 SGieUbXq97b3HBPu+vhN9+2rW2uOAek9pzgRlbKrEsB3/P3geMRiMQgBCdWS6y62 xJMm2eBEkxAB4g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:message-id :mime-version:subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=1waDqMf/FHkh8jQpmpRTnlUAjYrYi lXkVAXnzLOtOI4=; b=eZuN1yQBzTk9ImcApvYOxRAQsXgjDVoFMTp1Y+/uGXNHd GYoC2VhtrPKRSHu7wzWOFMfe6qO8yG3pLEYvlRg3nGxwunwB+XjsxSwhLcsDN/rA tyvI/2PsFVSbR7nUOZI4KhZ6mxg7U12eezEd8i6ahGFurJFK5Vl6i53ooysfXAZW pT5z3vE1RatzjJ1B+dEZNweTl/p4PE8/uB3T9AARjIPWpe3+QVEn5rQ+q2vNJyz0 cXn5S9i/iKhHIkwaLA4RD0UQ3b9Xd+dzXxKYmikLuSSatpy+pVQ87ni5AZNAG1U/ bjzaUdMmdSacjuy8xZccePzaCZ7nGUd+F4pu0W3Ew== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvuddruddvfedgudefjecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhephffvufffkfggtgesthdtredttd dttdenucfhrhhomhepffhimhgrucfmohhgrghnuceoughimhgrsehsvggtrhgvthhsrghu tggvrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpefgudfhvdeuheefudfhveehleejkefghe eiteevtefhiedtledviefggedvveejffenucffohhmrghinhepghhnuhdrohhrghenucev lhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeguihhmrgessh gvtghrvghtshgruhgtvgdrnhgvth X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA for ; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 15:17:46 -0500 (EST) From: Dima Kogan To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 29.0.50; "fixed-pitch" face doesn't respect the font in "default-frame-alist" Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 12:17:44 -0800 Message-ID: <87a6ghc0ev.fsf@secretsauce.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.24; envelope-from=dima@secretsauce.net; helo=wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -8 X-Spam_score: -0.9 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.9 / 5.0 requ) DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) Hi. I'm running a very recent emacs snapshot from 2021/12/19: 0bc2900bbcb. I'm on Debian GNU/Linux, using the GTK-based build on X. In the last few months I've been observing some font handling updates in emacs that cause an inconsistency with the way things are displayed. As suggested by the emacs documentation, I set the font I want by touching default-frame-alist. The docs are here: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Fonts.html I've had this setting in my .emacs for many years. Today this isn't respected everywhere. A recipe: emacs -Q --eval \ "(progn (setf (alist-get 'font default-frame-alist) \"-adobe-courier-medium-r-*-*-14-*-*-*-*-*-iso8859-*\") (org-mode) (insert \"abc\\n#+begin_\"))" Here I start up emacs without .emacs, but with some default-frame-alist setting. I enter org-mode and insert some text. Invoking C-u C-x = on any of "abc" tells me that no particular face is active there, and that my default font is being used. Invoking C-u C-x = on any of "#+begin_" tells me that the org-meta-line face is active there. This face ultimately derives from the fixed-pitch face, which uses a different monospace font: ftcrhb:-Bits-Bitstream Vera Sans Mono-regular-normal-normal-*-14-*-*-*-m-0-iso10646-1. But I already selected a monospaced font in default-frame-alist, so I expect to get the same font here, which was the case for many years. The fixed-pitch face is defined like this in faces.el: (defface fixed-pitch '((t :family "Monospace")) "The basic fixed-pitch face." :group 'basic-faces) I can "fix" this by resetting the fixed-pitch face to use the default: (defface fixed-pitch '((t)) "The basic fixed-pitch face." :group 'basic-faces) So is this a "bug"? Is this a documentation problem? Setting the default font to a monospace font, as described by the emacs docs should end up being picked up by the fixed-pitch face. Thanks! From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 31 02:26:46 2021 Received: (at 52905) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Dec 2021 07:26:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54999 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n3CJK-0007Q4-4l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 02:26:46 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46702) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n3CJI-0007Pr-L1 for 52905@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 02:26:45 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=42706 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n3CJD-0007oc-6Z; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 02:26:39 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=/HfEyq/6BYdZVhyii6qC8aVJCCG+DNuyV0M+e6alQpk=; b=IMEslWJl3RgH R9af8qeS1Se5Oylih4jtb/aL1xQL2zJlSAIBNP6AaSOeX9dwKsJP15hYI4YE9PLmpLa8pqg9+DEIZ PTOggWn51t9iOXUwqbc5p2C0Uu99SZJ5afJdprd/xr/eHbHQ7NrosQ8IoQtno6jyQiwYzbj7dSv1p 6yt1GdGbOSjOSg1ek7YJ/Jrc8ZNv3oO9VS/ohjaKWdGtlDJekS3DqjeVNqkKEVG/LPBRSovNGf8rt bX4kkfuKZK0SBdt9w7of7Qr+5t3Eb1u+oPEEzY4+C8DveUjnwBSidVZ6ymgLFW3nlQcTvKl6w1qAt bn7CH7kMFcmzSmpdgTTnIA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4752 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n3CJB-0004H7-Jn; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 02:26:37 -0500 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2021 09:26:44 +0200 Message-Id: <83v8z5grpn.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Dima Kogan In-Reply-To: <87a6ghc0ev.fsf@secretsauce.net> (message from Dima Kogan on Thu, 30 Dec 2021 12:17:44 -0800) Subject: Re: bug#52905: 29.0.50; "fixed-pitch" face doesn't respect the font in "default-frame-alist" References: <87a6ghc0ev.fsf@secretsauce.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52905 Cc: 52905@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Dima Kogan > Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 12:17:44 -0800 > > In the last few months I've been observing some font handling updates in > emacs that cause an inconsistency with the way things are displayed. As > suggested by the emacs documentation, I set the font I want by touching > default-frame-alist. The docs are here: > > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Fonts.html > > I've had this setting in my .emacs for many years. Today this isn't > respected everywhere. A recipe: > > emacs -Q --eval \ > "(progn > (setf (alist-get 'font default-frame-alist) > \"-adobe-courier-medium-r-*-*-14-*-*-*-*-*-iso8859-*\") > (org-mode) > (insert \"abc\\n#+begin_\"))" > > Here I start up emacs without .emacs, but with some default-frame-alist > setting. I enter org-mode and insert some text. > > Invoking C-u C-x = on any of "abc" tells me that no particular face is > active there, and that my default font is being used. > > Invoking C-u C-x = on any of "#+begin_" tells me that the org-meta-line > face is active there. This face ultimately derives from the fixed-pitch > face, which uses a different monospace font: ftcrhb:-Bits-Bitstream Vera > Sans Mono-regular-normal-normal-*-14-*-*-*-m-0-iso10646-1. > > But I already selected a monospaced font in default-frame-alist, so I > expect to get the same font here, which was the case for many years. The > fixed-pitch face is defined like this in faces.el: > > (defface fixed-pitch > '((t :family "Monospace")) > "The basic fixed-pitch face." > :group 'basic-faces) > > I can "fix" this by resetting the fixed-pitch face to use the default: > > (defface fixed-pitch > '((t)) > "The basic fixed-pitch face." > :group 'basic-faces) > > > So is this a "bug"? Is this a documentation problem? Setting the default > font to a monospace font, as described by the emacs docs should end up > being picked up by the fixed-pitch face. You seem to assume that the default face's font is also the font used by the fixed-pitch face? There's no basis for this assumption: as long as a face defines :font or :family attributes, the font for that face is selected independently. The "Monospace" family doesn't stand for "the monospace font selected fro thedefault face", it stands for some font that belongs to the "Monospace" family. What exactly does that family include depends on your font back-end and the fonts installed on your system, but Vera Sans Mono doesn't sound like it shouldn't be in that family, it sounds right to me. So, given the data you presented, I don't yet see any bug, but a well-documented and expected behavior. If you want the same font for the fixed-pitch face, you should customize that face as well, e.g. by using set-face-attribute, to set its font attribute, or by using set-face-font directly. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 31 02:53:22 2021 Received: (at 52905) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Dec 2021 07:53:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55026 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n3Cj4-0008G4-Ab for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 02:53:22 -0500 Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.28]:58895) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n3Cj3-0008Fl-49 for 52905@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 02:53:21 -0500 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE8455C0054; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 02:53:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 31 Dec 2021 02:53:15 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=secretsauce.net; h=references:from:to:cc:subject:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=fm2; bh=aXIS/f2XG1Ok6TVs6PAGQD6GR5 2M1/1tDiqpZwL8H6g=; b=3DATbqdydsWIRBW15knOBuBqvcH/6hgNY3v8E8RnZ1 l0PNnrwsEIapE1b6do5BUyr0RUuUu6B1motNOLWvdWlPIRZlbZSYLnYQ7vrzSBkE 58+Gcb1Kv7BX/9QWf7kyg9O/lxHkw6z9UjbbpPRjfd4N/tjM/yh0+NxkE3BFecRR PuyDDTD0retpgG67e//6Cl3rlBDYS+/qowFB/wqHgy404gQk51o8aBoLNysTmW+/ hKVHuM9DR9kV5EyyCJgXYVaWE5T6H0jYCTjmrWHKk8f7q9ITG/XhlBBYufa4ZEqq BavaoSjSP/faKIbKJfqQZQYV1kbN3rNnUtuBnmBkLoUQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=aXIS/f 2XG1Ok6TVs6PAGQD6GR52M1/1tDiqpZwL8H6g=; b=LdZlGnLj7oRHRa8Rp+EaRn 6soNaS8bWvVHlQj/eUjaNH8099OnrUjuHleINPZ7IPLo4d7KSEoxV1zW/hD8Unuk j56s9wgKF0KcCOdy8dPIuMk263RG0y/B1K/8cPQLvQOn7KPb1St41ziryFYSyXjK 2BlOPgy+XZQ0Is9UnDkZe9FEho+pheD2SpFcajVZnSurG3DQI97E/Goe7NpH/4JN AZvrmbUw1tdDI5+L4KjH8inT1SMzrnCRP79JJlAAwwmLZTEbtS29A2VRZMZ0Pi7V HzjnvdDLqN1kGOCFS1tjoAANzSEIlu7iIKMH9Sp8T71D9RHdbknNvhbLx68Smy7g == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvuddruddvgedguddufecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpehffgfhvffuffgjkfggtgesthdtredttdertdenucfhrhhomhepffhimhgr ucfmohhgrghnuceoughimhgrsehsvggtrhgvthhsrghutggvrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpefhgfffhfdtieefjeejvdelffegtdetgfeftdefhfelhfeuheffveettdei ffelkeenucffohhmrghinhepghhithhhuhgsrdgtohhmnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivg eptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepughimhgrsehsvggtrhgvthhsrghutggv rdhnvght X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 02:53:15 -0500 (EST) References: <87a6ghc0ev.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83v8z5grpn.fsf@gnu.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.6.10; emacs 29.0.50 From: Dima Kogan To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#52905: 29.0.50; "fixed-pitch" face doesn't respect the font in "default-frame-alist" Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 23:34:58 -0800 In-reply-to: <83v8z5grpn.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <875yr5b47r.fsf@secretsauce.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52905 Cc: 52905@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Hi Eli. Broadly-speaking the complaint is: I've been doing what the docs tell me to do for many years, and it has been looking nice for many years, and now it doesn't look nice anymore I just looked at version control, and the thing that actually made things weird in THIS case is the update to org 9.5: https://github.com/emacs-mirror/emacs/commit/bf9ec3d91a79414deac039f7bf83352a9b0a9a85 It made the org-meta-line face inherit from "fixed-pitch", which is fine. More notes follow... > You seem to assume that the default face's font is also the font > used by the fixed-pitch face? There's no basis for this assumption: > as long as a face defines :font or :family attributes, the font for > that face is selected independently. The "Monospace" family > doesn't stand for "the monospace font selected fro thedefault face", > it stands for some font that belongs to the "Monospace" family. What > exactly does that family include depends on your font back-end and the > fonts installed on your system, but Vera Sans Mono doesn't sound like > it shouldn't be in that family, it sounds right to me. Yes. That is exactly what it's doing today. But it isn't nice. If emacs has a "default" font, and that font happens to be a fixed-pitch font, then the "fixed-pitch" face should use that default font. Otherwise, the "default" font choice is ignored in arbitrary places, creating a poor user experience. I think the ways to fix this are: 1. Not having a default font at all 2. Some logic that vaguely does (in pseudo-code): (set-font-for-face fixed-pitch (if (font-is-fixed-p default-font) default-font (get-some-fixed-pitch-font))) (set-font-for-face variable-pitch (if (font-is-variable-p default-font) default-font (get-some-variable-pitch-font))) Is there an easy, reliable way to tell if a given font is fixed or not? If so, this would be a good way to honor the user's choice of default font. Thanks! From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 31 03:15:52 2021 Received: (at 52905) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Dec 2021 08:15:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55048 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n3D4p-0000UU-To for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 03:15:52 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53646) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n3D4o-0000UA-Am for 52905@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 03:15:50 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=43534 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n3D4h-0006Kb-G0; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 03:15:45 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=s12J1t8znSh6gDDmHoe+5VzWOykMOTTsbC2uAko2Lzg=; b=Im5eljoPm6Af oClDLCcW6fLAouIbV1+N4+tEV6/TTbtUkWgBuv2XN6aBKIAkzSaEjccWSUTEApFOzSnALeUOxA4NC 72nhrjstJ1jmo8JM7xLe+FWJ9b2hI3MupqLGSdMBSH6SiZF9qivmcOreky/yRPKno6kAzR1n3S9CT je3WOFbhNAq7hQhgcPRMQNj0kJsZNMfDCJXcd0nIq9RCRdrtSLpFElCibkkEiXmORhlUqFs/L5mHE YkSO8udKnAR7hWzAy9zYfORihIwVkX0J9g0Ujr9C/ap4lHjaX6gucOENpfe/0CtldW96MbWmnsQ0u EHjlw2fPbLPDjLsL4UWbZw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3780 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n3D4Y-0006EW-1u; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 03:15:41 -0500 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2021 10:15:40 +0200 Message-Id: <83o84xgpg3.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Dima Kogan In-Reply-To: <875yr5b47r.fsf@secretsauce.net> (message from Dima Kogan on Thu, 30 Dec 2021 23:34:58 -0800) Subject: Re: bug#52905: 29.0.50; "fixed-pitch" face doesn't respect the font in "default-frame-alist" References: <87a6ghc0ev.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83v8z5grpn.fsf@gnu.org> <875yr5b47r.fsf@secretsauce.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52905 Cc: 52905@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Dima Kogan > Cc: 52905@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 23:34:58 -0800 > > I just looked at version control, and the thing that actually made > things weird in THIS case is the update to org 9.5: > > https://github.com/emacs-mirror/emacs/commit/bf9ec3d91a79414deac039f7bf83352a9b0a9a85 > > It made the org-meta-line face inherit from "fixed-pitch", which is > fine. So this is why it stopped to work for you: Org now uses a different parent face for its faces. This has nothing to do with how Emacs selects fonts for faces. > Yes. That is exactly what it's doing today. But it isn't nice. If emacs > has a "default" font, and that font happens to be a fixed-pitch font, > then the "fixed-pitch" face should use that default font. I respectively disagree. The fixed-pitch face exists to be able to specify a different fixed-pitch font for text that needs to have a distinctly different appearance. It makes little sense to me to make it use the same font as the default face. > Otherwise, the "default" font choice is ignored in arbitrary places, > creating a poor user experience. Lisp programs that want to avoid that should not use a different face, or should tell users to customize the respective faces if they want the same font as for the default face. > I think the ways to fix this are: Thanks, but I don't think we should fix this. I see no problem to fix. The fixed-pitch face is designed to have a distinct font. > Is there an easy, reliable way to tell if a given font is fixed or > not? You could apply heuristics based on SPACE-WIDTH and AVERAGE-WIDTH values returned by font-info. But basically, I don't think you can know for sure. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 31 03:33:35 2021 Received: (at 52905) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Dec 2021 08:33:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55055 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n3DLy-000121-GA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 03:33:34 -0500 Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.28]:44465) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n3DLm-00011Y-B0 for 52905@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 03:33:33 -0500 Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 511DE5C011A; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 03:33:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 31 Dec 2021 03:33:16 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=secretsauce.net; h=references:from:to:cc:subject:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=fm2; bh=wf1fqlydmHWVnB0w7me80JT+KY owsTeTOfEVbEkOgpQ=; b=RM1uAFtcXnHmrEbOqqWEgh82ZUZdCnVEx+p4sjxk9f dhdn4uCOyan8RMr1ybRcZijPtgsItGl4Suvv/amaKAxD+c4MnQH0ZKXH+FxhyJi4 UW7cKv4BQF7IWS05OCl/id7TPKYOZVzbOfmGR7SAZor9krQYF4JzGlJLhiJ1tDYq MKMOaUxtEtIYTKYUItXh4ge4mSqZ4P1GvwhjwUwqmv6xsuyFgYj2Ww+w50YuFkNb IoZHO/wWffvDKnKpuslNYG5X35IyEXqUXMZ3i/lwGVkYCQZ0LJookX79KFfgvNwi +YWPSvYouBmyoXmYM67xMBX4CeFqqnHEaO8bSE7eSprA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=wf1fql ydmHWVnB0w7me80JT+KYowsTeTOfEVbEkOgpQ=; b=UUtZcXlOjjrZdejgR+epnd aR56oglI1X8Fq6WnCfIVi8sV1Aoe5S5nspylo21mVxU9bSgefulRSfZ1y/L4kclT kZPcan4fWa0R8wOF+GCuiipfV+vO46slhfY5q2Vx9c5Fwx/bz+EoE2yGMJuKZOR4 q5KSQy+CWSq6+7OJkaKRetXjCaqlfvNQd4ZvrrlgEu2QxFV8DcSMFFko3CxgYvPI X5POI0OuiZ5r5rFW8CyUO1y316fCPsPFrL2EHnGeZSSexhney0sTEqIUYUnxH/0K Tv1OQrvC/Dqgdv4Hq1AnsQYhYae3rD5h4OKWf9NI1dvU4CNONusgSO0J9jmplnNA == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvuddruddvgedguddvudcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpehffgfhvffuffgjkfggtgesthdtredttdertdenucfhrhhomhepffhimhgr ucfmohhgrghnuceoughimhgrsehsvggtrhgvthhsrghutggvrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpeetgfejleevhedttdfhhfelheevffffffegiefgtdekgfefhfehgeelfeel gfdvjeenucffohhmrghinhepghhnuhdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtne curfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeguihhmrgesshgvtghrvghtshgruhgtvgdrnhgv th X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 03:33:15 -0500 (EST) References: <87a6ghc0ev.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83v8z5grpn.fsf@gnu.org> <875yr5b47r.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83o84xgpg3.fsf@gnu.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.6.10; emacs 29.0.50 From: Dima Kogan To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#52905: 29.0.50; "fixed-pitch" face doesn't respect the font in "default-frame-alist" Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2021 00:24:53 -0800 In-reply-to: <83o84xgpg3.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <87wnjl9nsl.fsf@secretsauce.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52905 Cc: 52905@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > Thanks, but I don't think we should fix this. I see no problem to > fix. The fixed-pitch face is designed to have a distinct font. OK. Can we then at least update the docs? This page: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Fonts.html That page tells the user how to change the font, but don't say anything about when that setting will be respected. The current behavior of emacs completely ignoring this setting when picking the "fixed-pitch" and "variable-pitch" fonts feels like it should be noted on that page. Is using the default-frame-alist to set the default font still our recommended best practice? Is that what you do? Thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Dec 31 08:10:11 2021 Received: (at 52905) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Dec 2021 13:10:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55398 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n3Hfb-0005sY-PR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 08:10:11 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56656) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n3HfZ-0005rs-Mf for 52905@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 08:10:06 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=40874 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n3HfU-0001BT-3u; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 08:10:00 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=2ePta67pnjXouRxrPaNP2wPGTKjJQu/nVDbXwRasZuc=; b=M/LITEA0AsZE ifowMZKwqwCstWVhl4aWCRNzo8EUJ2BecM4IBK4XQX5HpFYfjaY1GY2JxgJ9EhESwYuoK7tX3ZUoW x2z2or1OSytEdL8RGN2Mw/r1oMi/vTxVaG/sHVt9t/R9Mdy3v/5CSD52Lgf/6ljhy9OIcy1TtBvwD DVd30C7PN/HHAp2NBzN+dZ/IeDtd8uavyg2EK2l3mve45Vfvuo0IuqkV/z10fHcXvVdGX5g3Dy+Cy FglK+yHs1kf++G4UvK7/AqxiWH+v2AuMX+UZsgo77DN63YZZHwP2UN6ZqZ2z5/G/wzo9Gd7fY2ts9 AkdkTCYyi4/QSs2zeoBVgw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2158 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n3HfS-0001wh-TS; Fri, 31 Dec 2021 08:10:00 -0500 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2021 15:10:05 +0200 Message-Id: <83a6gghqdu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Dima Kogan In-Reply-To: <87wnjl9nsl.fsf@secretsauce.net> (message from Dima Kogan on Fri, 31 Dec 2021 00:24:53 -0800) Subject: Re: bug#52905: 29.0.50; "fixed-pitch" face doesn't respect the font in "default-frame-alist" References: <87a6ghc0ev.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83v8z5grpn.fsf@gnu.org> <875yr5b47r.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83o84xgpg3.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnjl9nsl.fsf@secretsauce.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52905 Cc: 52905@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Dima Kogan > Cc: 52905@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2021 00:24:53 -0800 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Thanks, but I don't think we should fix this. I see no problem to > > fix. The fixed-pitch face is designed to have a distinct font. > > OK. Can we then at least update the docs? This page: > > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Fonts.html > > That page tells the user how to change the font, but don't say anything > about when that setting will be respected. You mean, to say explicitly that "the default font" in that node means "the font of the default face"? > The current behavior of emacs > completely ignoring this setting when picking the "fixed-pitch" and > "variable-pitch" fonts feels like it should be noted on that page. That behavior is not specific to these faces, it happens with any face which specifies a font. > Is using the default-frame-alist to set the default font still our > recommended best practice? Is that what you do? Yes and yes. It's just that you seem to interpret "the default font" differently from what it was supposed to mean. It means the font of the default face. Any face that doesn't specify a font or some font attribute will use the same font, but faces that do specify those attributes can (and usually do) select other fonts. To affect the font of the faces which specify font attributes, you need to customize those faces separately from the default face and default-frame-alist. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 01 15:21:10 2022 Received: (at 52905) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jan 2022 20:21:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59405 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n3ksH-0002dx-OZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jan 2022 15:21:10 -0500 Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.24]:37029) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n3ksC-0002cp-B3 for 52905@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jan 2022 15:21:07 -0500 Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E73332006F5; Sat, 1 Jan 2022 15:20:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 01 Jan 2022 15:20:58 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=secretsauce.net; h=references:from:to:cc:subject:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=fm2; bh=eweQwFqHvk8vtnXm67IyofDp3+ HDHiwh27FyhDaEUKc=; b=Uf8pmxkyAzXgPLRRO4FD56rKQLO44dSp7i7+Gze8aH hC3X/QcGVUkgOe2KfhRs9kwhn9Cat86S5x8A+3mZKPXbpo3MqjE8PabKyyVuSQ8o J6Ba5N9KGq4iDECl4TiN5Oupfm9hQSxkm4NbBEtA2JPrUikHtXKNq5a9OB7bIgYW 7WVFo202qV1H4Bh/WodPp4TuhlCEPae2GUQx2SAQ2VUgS1cPEmC9zQWxTQnB0Jht H96kxPUIWXTo+PBYYHdqiH6cYHhwVP8nTsja04f2dUFkFCtsUAXitPn0OZ9ZmtOj sjBluDKfj62uwMgE8un4uKP3DvETLKZulpUz++6CVHhA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=eweQwF qHvk8vtnXm67IyofDp3+HDHiwh27FyhDaEUKc=; b=dcSFikSkp3EpGVIhsZ2IWT F6ekS/Dk1KqkcO02d3xCqH/ZpXN9CTAI6FJtWM/0vzlzMEXQSy7OBjE2TQef159a W2+fWUjyrUaiwmEYn5lIV6ySsBDHRZs8AFc2qMLG1zcf5rq+cVo2cDy9oZLdcmM0 CcPfOrNfDQjOkC9aiAjbwskgZczSVF7EBRrKKoM4B0NR23tPRUzuVlBMken8ImDf eUq0znTl3yWAUvsxHtoFCoGDMpmLvLQl6enuI/FJ4MM4wMY4XPM0whqjlvkUjveI FXTuhXyVEwu7EHv2qy9a3drP0rIcoc0+NHFl8v5xdJ91BYcH3tf5QVvczB0y8J4Q == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvuddruddvjedgudefiecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpehffgfhvffuffgjkfggtgesthdtredttdertdenucfhrhhomhepffhimhgr ucfmohhgrghnuceoughimhgrsehsvggtrhgvthhsrghutggvrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpeevgfeuueeuueevvdfgfeetgfegvdevveekffevveetleegudfggeegkeej ueejieenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe guihhmrgesshgvtghrvghtshgruhgtvgdrnhgvth X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sat, 1 Jan 2022 15:20:57 -0500 (EST) References: <87a6ghc0ev.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83v8z5grpn.fsf@gnu.org> <875yr5b47r.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83o84xgpg3.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnjl9nsl.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83a6gghqdu.fsf@gnu.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.6.10; emacs 29.0.50 From: Dima Kogan To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#52905: 29.0.50; "fixed-pitch" face doesn't respect the font in "default-frame-alist" Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2022 11:07:50 -0800 In-reply-to: <83a6gghqdu.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <87o84v9pi0.fsf@secretsauce.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52905 Cc: 52905@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Is using the default-frame-alist to set the default font still our >> recommended best practice? Is that what you do? > > Yes and yes. It's just that you seem to interpret "the default font" > differently from what it was supposed to mean. It means the font of > the default face. Any face that doesn't specify a font or some font > attribute will use the same font, but faces that do specify those > attributes can (and usually do) select other fonts. To affect the > font of the faces which specify font attributes, you need to customize > those faces separately from the default face and default-frame-alist. Hi. Let's talk about this part first. Clearly the manual says what you describe, and I clearly see how it came to be this way. It makes perfect sense from the viewpoint of the dev that wrote the logic and the docs. As a user, this doesn't feel right to me, though. Can we talk about that? Then we can agree on what, if anything, needs fixing. Do you use org? Are you seeing a different fonts in the body of the document compared to the #+begin_... lines? If so, does this bug you? The org devs said #+begin_... lines should be rendered with the fixed-pitch face font I suspect that what they MEANT was #+begin_... lines should be rendered with a fixed pitch font I suspect this because that's what I would have meant if I wrote it. IF this is what was intended and IF the default font had a fixed pitch, then I think it makes sense for emacs to use the default font here. If you're seeing the two different fonts, and you think that's fine, then I'll just fix this in my .emacs, and we can be done. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 01 15:28:43 2022 Received: (at 52905) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jan 2022 20:28:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59426 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n3kzb-0002qR-Ct for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jan 2022 15:28:43 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43262) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n3kzZ-0002qD-NM for 52905@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jan 2022 15:28:42 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=38634 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n3kzU-00007R-8f; Sat, 01 Jan 2022 15:28:36 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=doQXSqTvXiD2hZQcAyJKa8EjuL+Ak87PAlEQ/r/0Ne0=; b=FYnDe3G7LKj0 hSe8U5e0JY/0YYSaCNVaoYMK6av6n8yuFPbUuIP8Y3ywFwJq6g8iXDSPVk7bomIgTvQRF/O6jqB34 BlvKwQC+PkVipS0LFmJ+sUNVbS3gLqiddqWUF0kDBNELb0+owI5qb6abf1Eio7+PZqb+Sy5C8Zo1w CwAYZhHYSw9KLmy1RTc42JRxei5iTy0dEJkRXQFWVqOZSgL0l8WjZELTL9oE9Ng1yiM38x7jvKG3f KiSxOqrdweU4NxfNFjDohBFYwZ9fsFBpVQ/cL4N9h9KO+sw1cz8hSchvSVEuRSXXx2zGHnxrwJush vM/3zMf3MNczOhYHiME6Ig==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3033 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n3kzS-0005I4-Aw; Sat, 01 Jan 2022 15:28:36 -0500 Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2022 22:28:34 +0200 Message-Id: <83y23zdwul.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Dima Kogan In-Reply-To: <87o84v9pi0.fsf@secretsauce.net> (message from Dima Kogan on Sat, 01 Jan 2022 11:07:50 -0800) Subject: Re: bug#52905: 29.0.50; "fixed-pitch" face doesn't respect the font in "default-frame-alist" References: <87a6ghc0ev.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83v8z5grpn.fsf@gnu.org> <875yr5b47r.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83o84xgpg3.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnjl9nsl.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83a6gghqdu.fsf@gnu.org> <87o84v9pi0.fsf@secretsauce.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52905 Cc: 52905@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Dima Kogan > Cc: 52905@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2022 11:07:50 -0800 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> Is using the default-frame-alist to set the default font still our > >> recommended best practice? Is that what you do? > > > > Yes and yes. It's just that you seem to interpret "the default font" > > differently from what it was supposed to mean. It means the font of > > the default face. Any face that doesn't specify a font or some font > > attribute will use the same font, but faces that do specify those > > attributes can (and usually do) select other fonts. To affect the > > font of the faces which specify font attributes, you need to customize > > those faces separately from the default face and default-frame-alist. > > Hi. Let's talk about this part first. Clearly the manual says what you > describe, and I clearly see how it came to be this way. It makes perfect > sense from the viewpoint of the dev that wrote the logic and the docs. > > As a user, this doesn't feel right to me, though. Can we talk about > that? Then we can agree on what, if anything, needs fixing. > > Do you use org? Are you seeing a different fonts in the body of the > document compared to the #+begin_... lines? If so, does this bug you? > The org devs said > > #+begin_... lines should be rendered with the fixed-pitch face font > > I suspect that what they MEANT was > > #+begin_... lines should be rendered with a fixed pitch font No, I think they meant what they said. > I suspect this because that's what I would have meant if I wrote it. IF > this is what was intended and IF the default font had a fixed pitch, > then I think it makes sense for emacs to use the default font here. > > If you're seeing the two different fonts, and you think that's fine, > then I'll just fix this in my .emacs, and we can be done. Yes, I think it is fine to see 2 different fonts in this case. Once again, the reason is that the fixed-pitch face specifies its own font. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 01 15:33:34 2022 Received: (at 52905-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jan 2022 20:33:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59438 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n3l4I-0002zh-9P for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jan 2022 15:33:34 -0500 Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.24]:51701) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n3l4G-0002zP-Ds for 52905-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Jan 2022 15:33:32 -0500 Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 956E332009E0; Sat, 1 Jan 2022 15:33:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 01 Jan 2022 15:33:25 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=secretsauce.net; h=references:from:to:cc:subject:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=fm2; bh=U6DAYVPwZ78sg4NZf1GRvXiSo1 qxa1Ll9d9bcIFR1C4=; b=Qua+DAmp7E5OLSXlTObokSVtpdmnvuYeBWLcpdgCdY SWaoDgFjAR/Nik7/GORanDbQzjEG2aRndlMepbeYK/FtWqyp2dfxHWNkW2n8szfm 9JXpxSeDgqnkPUzaw+Zd/BRK2mp29iAV4O/PGfTBUs2sSiGIo7uxWvcNsX4UzZUp Fytf/W2BhyN48fPqUnmiBwwnC61qfLGRzwR+UoLCb+VoDmy+l4ZTpnLNS/pY7ajc 1FqeEmf2DeX3BPdx/KBZkSe4K1nac3Ce+QiXAa3PF4D5jnyasYZPHJ1idbjrFrTg RCV165SjrGgdyn7XbRXGrvsGLep66KKptvc3sZMkYwig== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=U6DAYV PwZ78sg4NZf1GRvXiSo1qxa1Ll9d9bcIFR1C4=; b=LIZV+eSCusOSRyHe/NQpAR uOWiX74s6YU1x8/g4OmHZZDLsz+FnqY9CQS5WEVb+WdohI0s5e6q21CXoDaW/ldD txUvwFcGwYakr0AQCekixsOcvmohwrTOiqpReRj4+YbSfWxTqlI6ES3/03IAoHsc Do7iXmwQaEL3SarJb/zQ3NFWviK+k60vJTSaM1pnz/bmGBUSZjHnKNYrHwYmbr/C L7DjW4nWlOYbGVPLhQFzg7Gt6/cFvPXnY9HJqu6KYHtZP+85gJZhXhbzSGNCjsRH OlEwvFXMF7j1lXRexrt5bp5Rmd2X/TwLO/50Qu9HQaqPiP4if2JHgGwu+Fn7q2ug == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvuddruddvjedgudefkecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpehffgfhvffuffgjkfggtgesthdtredttdertdenucfhrhhomhepffhimhgr ucfmohhgrghnuceoughimhgrsehsvggtrhgvthhsrghutggvrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpeevgfeuueeuueevvdfgfeetgfegvdevveekffevveetleegudfggeegkeej ueejieenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe guihhmrgesshgvtghrvghtshgruhgtvgdrnhgvth X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sat, 1 Jan 2022 15:33:24 -0500 (EST) References: <87a6ghc0ev.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83v8z5grpn.fsf@gnu.org> <875yr5b47r.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83o84xgpg3.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnjl9nsl.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83a6gghqdu.fsf@gnu.org> <87o84v9pi0.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83y23zdwul.fsf@gnu.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.6.10; emacs 29.0.50 From: Dima Kogan To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#52905: 29.0.50; "fixed-pitch" face doesn't respect the font in "default-frame-alist" Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2022 12:32:53 -0800 In-reply-to: <83y23zdwul.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <87k0fj9ox9.fsf@secretsauce.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52905-done Cc: 52905-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > Yes, I think it is fine to see 2 different fonts in this case. Once > again, the reason is that the fixed-pitch face specifies its own font. Alright. I'll fix this on my end. I'm closing the issue. Thanks for discussing it. From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:32:25 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2022 12:24:04 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator