From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 29 18:29:33 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Dec 2021 23:29:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50654 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n2iNx-0000Qx-CW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 18:29:33 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:34816) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n2iNw-0000Qq-Mx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 18:29:32 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39012) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n2iNw-0003Xd-EZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 18:29:32 -0500 Received: from mail-il1-f182.google.com ([209.85.166.182]:40948) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n2iNu-0002Z0-Pl for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 18:29:32 -0500 Received: by mail-il1-f182.google.com with SMTP id c4so11264953iln.7 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 15:29:30 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=ImCuCkrMvZ6OYAzdjCQrAEkgSln4grzjGQIApfVEmPQ=; b=gOWizwZKExtdRKIIRr3SqVFtJDpqVTKeoIjwNQlC5LAxzeUN2XrcjCWQKwVRX5f5TN 7sCDv6lnuJ/73xHQxJEJL6GAEKIDrotETJIttvLew5dYaRYbCKVUqzy8z10f7VBpHMUP 6+S14rpcDG5Y1yzthwxajHADkZn47+B/aQf3klOId8cdjluFmcqF/IwUTM0ps25k2HEf AKBbYANnGzYf/fpbZpQJyFoo4L5eQi+Vm/onp/nXR/1D3XAoq7zsb+VkqC3WLo6Dcqcv qX1Gw/79Ro/HneLgrSNgn32qUhGitllSKZ8qYZ5e398Rv/4xP/v5vtMGNEbDYyfFpASW /FaQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533I9rSxhxQ8mlgdOn2zEPIzgI7MJT/4rv6nlhGL1Ul9q0hjYXzY 3u3g2Rg8fZpe6UCiSrVZURepJFo9xRY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyd8ky6ZnuWBGxSxchliIUO+bHAG8sfvqyDBGKNcQxVtuYUcgmgjYcYyNeikmGlDY8HHJx6wg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:1aad:: with SMTP id l13mr13483370ilv.4.1640820569475; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 15:29:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from data ([98.50.106.108]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 11sm14819053ilx.20.2021.12.29.15.29.28 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 29 Dec 2021 15:29:29 -0800 (PST) From: akira@akirakyle.com To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 28.0.50; xwidget webkit scrolling behaviour confusing or broken with multiple windows Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2021 16:29:27 -0700 Message-ID: <86sfubrnvs.fsf@data.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.166.182; envelope-from=aikokyle@gmail.com; helo=mail-il1-f182.google.com X-Spam_score_int: 5 X-Spam_score: 0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.5 / 5.0 requ) FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) On emacs -Q compiled --with-webkit in xwayland on GNOME - M-x xwidget-webkit-browse-url RET then enter in some url There are two scroll bars, one for webkit and one for the buffer, the one for the buffer does nothing. Now - C-x 3 - C-u N C-x { where N is enough so the window is narrower than the webpage It is now impossible to scroll horizontally in this window to view the whole webpage (there is no horizontal scroll bar and C-f doesn't work). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 29 20:40:42 2021 Received: (at 52885) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Dec 2021 01:40:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50746 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n2kQs-0004DS-OO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 20:40:42 -0500 Received: from sonic307-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.190.33]:44652) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n2kQr-0004DF-JE for 52885@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 20:40:42 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1640828435; bh=ezyBDAlY5An+U3B55sRAM08WcwTcQXaFoPxcNsIpkKs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=aSQRHkyf1vtXu8mMC/2ehwK15mPaFjtV9skGETorgyH0fkA25URlooKIJtxnIgU7R6RXDPHgZiENA/hqabAl/Vkf9hmXQBzBymfJzbHbeXohvvOII8onCNkhcO+J/MPAQHG1Bb5n9GH/fgaYZ6uxijXbZS3IJyyWbDjdX6a1CnH0iAWPhcw/i9oRoZbeLvhMTW2ESGCCvE7fvGucO7EtkpZuQN9Qr3qK5fbH/Ju+vDDNiOxStz9RsG9ote32JqheWQ5/yLqsAhMmz9OvacoMAmqBmRJGl2wR8YeFbxCn54F5hQvlWhlOiTiS8vM7O3NzQ4cXZfQ+f6vb8Hq+nrumCg== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; 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Thu, 30 Dec 2021 01:40:35 +0000 Received: by kubenode512.mail-prod1.omega.sg3.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 9367107184941b2826a55001fc1c66e9; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 01:40:31 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: akira@akirakyle.com Subject: Re: bug#52885: 28.0.50; xwidget webkit scrolling behaviour confusing or broken with multiple windows References: <86sfubrnvs.fsf@data.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 09:40:26 +0800 In-Reply-To: <86sfubrnvs.fsf@data.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> (akira@akirakyle.com's message of "Wed, 29 Dec 2021 16:29:27 -0700") Message-ID: <87h7aqrhth.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.19551 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 208 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52885 Cc: 52885@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) akira@akirakyle.com writes: > It is now impossible to scroll horizontally in this window to view the > whole webpage (there is no horizontal scroll bar and C-f doesn't work). Thanks, I will look into this. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 30 01:05:20 2021 Received: (at 52885) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Dec 2021 06:05:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50904 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n2oYy-0003UO-A2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 01:05:20 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39216) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n2oYx-0003UB-M5 for 52885@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 01:05:19 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=35110 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n2oYq-0005oo-Q8; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 01:05:14 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=22xSDbePIbEeZ67jl43iVqJa66doRbONhdq51DHWrHM=; b=f1CqBO+KY9JI x7GOzHOKnrW4srDoiPhkx8K6ja+KohwspzMJKKuvdMRM97UdqfZiSe/+wNkldTtwmsdg8HAmn60Ua zFM7P65/TNx1dXNqqZWyJW/pZjB6Rw8kq2LPuM42aUPDJixcUJxSPxUpG2zrPevaJb2hm4At0UecV 33AbZVPrqpWkvTAndKVtgSkNsb5z5zWWxPsKYx7xBrFWlxJxQ5DArPK6TinR/U8RcV+VQ1coihtdo 75bpJ7Y5pMtoPH3/viGHERMrHv/W8whWqGfc3Gp3kYiBJmkkoBVDP9ltFa1XwdyQ6ugfB3mhjLUxp Hts9gG31Q2JYyuCVYCWhjA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2363 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n2oYq-00065F-PI; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 01:05:13 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 08:05:17 +0200 Message-Id: <831r1uk4pu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: akira@akirakyle.com In-Reply-To: <86sfubrnvs.fsf@data.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> (akira@akirakyle.com) Subject: Re: bug#52885: 28.0.50; xwidget webkit scrolling behaviour confusing or broken with multiple windows References: <86sfubrnvs.fsf@data.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52885 Cc: 52885@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: akira@akirakyle.com > Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2021 16:29:27 -0700 > > > On emacs -Q compiled --with-webkit in xwayland on GNOME > - M-x xwidget-webkit-browse-url RET then enter in some url > There are two scroll bars, one for webkit and one for the buffer, the > one for the buffer does nothing. Now > > - C-x 3 > - C-u N C-x { where N is enough so the window is narrower than the > webpage > > It is now impossible to scroll horizontally in this window to view the > whole webpage (there is no horizontal scroll bar and C-f doesn't work). Emacs doesn't display the horizontal scroll bars automatically, you need to say "M-x horizontal-scroll-bar-mode RET" to get that. That's a feature. But C-f and C-b should work, as they do with images that are larger than the window width. 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Thu, 30 Dec 2021 07:09:29 +0000 Received: by kubenode512.mail-prod1.omega.sg3.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID e05d9c8f0d7250c097a2e8a75b6ee2c8; Thu, 30 Dec 2021 07:09:24 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#52885: 28.0.50; xwidget webkit scrolling behaviour confusing or broken with multiple windows References: <86sfubrnvs.fsf@data.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <831r1uk4pu.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 15:09:19 +0800 In-Reply-To: <831r1uk4pu.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 30 Dec 2021 08:05:17 +0200") Message-ID: <875yr6po0w.fsf@yahoo.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.19551 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 600 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52885 Cc: akira@akirakyle.com, 52885@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > But C-f and C-b should work, as they do with images that are larger > than the window width. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case here, since xwidget-webkit defines its own replacements for C-f and C-b. I made those commands adjust the window hscroll if the widget is wider than the window, which should solve this problem. However, the correct thing to do when the window is too small is always to press "a", which will adjust the widget's dimensions to match the current window. (It should be done automatically, but that's not always possible.) Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 15 04:55:51 2022 Received: (at 52885) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2022 09:55:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39073 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8fmo-0002SU-Tw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 04:55:51 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47416) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8fmn-0002SC-3S for 52885@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 04:55:49 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=KKl2k0zsYvIGA8lL7bohgjudpjDJD8zn5OOIsps7dgY=; b=GuaAB8eBGBfjGhcKZMxM8ZAOpc YqDAJbTR9Y20+w1c1AEspG60Q23l8W+6JAm6U3mm9ovJ/aIO1WVDiNeZ74wx7ggrcK3SCxrbLuLHh lZLXA+eZggU567ZZQOcXwOS6Aj7vdHHsNjgjEf+iHUQJZNxmc6JkL7Z3VplMP66c5uJw=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n8fmd-0003JS-SF; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 10:55:42 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Po Lu Subject: Re: bug#52885: 28.0.50; xwidget webkit scrolling behaviour confusing or broken with multiple windows References: <86sfubrnvs.fsf@data.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> <831r1uk4pu.fsf@gnu.org> <875yr6po0w.fsf@yahoo.com> X-Now-Playing: Joni Mitchell's _Archives: The Early Years (4)_: "Cactus Tree" Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 10:55:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: <875yr6po0w.fsf@yahoo.com> (Po Lu's message of "Thu, 30 Dec 2021 15:09:19 +0800") Message-ID: <871r19xqzo.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Po Lu writes: > I made those commands adjust the window hscroll if the widget is wider > than the window, which should solve this problem. However, the correct > thing to do when the window is too small is always t [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52885 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , akira@akirakyle.com, 52885@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Po Lu writes: > I made those commands adjust the window hscroll if the widget is wider > than the window, which should solve this problem. However, the correct > thing to do when the window is too small is always to press "a", which > will adjust the widget's dimensions to match the current window. (It > should be done automatically, but that's not always possible.) So it sounds like the reported problem here has been fixed, so I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 15 04:55:58 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2022 09:55:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39076 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8fmw-0002Ss-5j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 04:55:58 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47434) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8fmu-0002Sc-NB for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 04:55:57 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=RYe4+/ula5X4ieRKPwXWX8Um6oW5NOmP+dedFLm7A7g=; b=gVYOjyztvozusAcxIFoslOZe+D W/d0Ox0/4/7v4IuFsfBEptaogKUIvz7d7yiP2zQ/til+IYu8srxkI3tKJpJHW1XYVE1kAaThCKlaG ZP4Ne596fuaX4vDYsqV1yOBS2T9DkLi9Y6y42DR5ySgmxz0agZPBMieteCGAoFmkd3CU=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n8fmm-0003Jb-PS for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 10:55:50 +0100 Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 10:55:46 +0100 Message-Id: <87zgnxwcf1.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #52885 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: close 52885 29.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) close 52885 29.1 quit From unknown Tue Jun 17 01:31:21 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:24:11 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator