From unknown Thu Jun 19 14:00:19 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#52876: 27.2; Call `describe-specified-language-support' without menu-bar Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2021 17:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 52876 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 52876@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: "bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.164079807331360 (code B ref -1); Wed, 29 Dec 2021 17:15:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Dec 2021 17:14:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50204 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n2cX2-00089j-RM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2021 12:14:33 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:59732) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n2cX1-00089X-Bq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -8 X-Spam_score: -0.9 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.9 / 5.0 requ) DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) `describe-specified-language-support' raises an error if it is called other than by way of the menu-bar. Please remove this restriction - make it possible to invoke it any other way as well. See this comment in mule-cmds.el: ;; This function is intended to be called from the menu: ;; [menu-bar mule describe-language-environment LANGUAGE] ;; and should not run it by `M-x describe-current-input-method-function'. That comment doesn't say _WHY_ there's this design constraint. Why should it be important that it be called only from the menu-bar, and (for example) with no variable or argument that provides whatever context/values are needed for it to do its job? This seems to be an unnecessary, arbitrary limitation. The code seems fragile and inflexible. It should not matter how/where such a command is invoked. ___ A use case: an environment (library lacarte.el is one) that lets you access commands in menu-bar menus using completion (so, direct access anywhere in the menu hierarchy, with substring completion etc.). It should be possible to invoke the command in any way: that way (menu completion), `M-x', or with a keyboard key binding. ___ If there are other commands with similar limitations, please fix them as well. (`setup-specified-language-environment', perhaps?) __ And I wonder if there are related bugs in mule-cmds.el. I see this: ;; FIXME: This "read-key-sequence + call-interactively" loop is trying to ;; reproduce the normal command loop, but this "can't" be done faithfully s= o ;; it necessarily suffers from breakage in corner cases (e.g. it fails to r= un ;; pre/post-command-hook, doesn't properly set this-command/last-command, i= t ;; doesn't handle keyboard macros, ...). Perhaps that's not directly related. But those features of command invoking are important. Making the commands in this library more normal would help all around. In GNU Emacs 27.2 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2021-03-26 built on CIRROCUMULUS Repository revision: deef5efafb70f4b171265b896505b92b6eef24e6 Repository branch: HEAD Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.19042 System Description: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro (v10.0.2009.19042.1348) From unknown Thu Jun 19 14:00:19 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#52876: 27.2; Call `describe-specified-language-support' without menu-bar Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 10:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 52876 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 52876@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 52876-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B52876.164224106119062 (code B ref 52876); Sat, 15 Jan 2022 10:05:02 +0000 Received: (at 52876) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2022 10:04:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39101 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8fv2-0004xO-Tu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 05:04:21 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47548) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8fv1-0004x8-Lb for 52876@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 05:04:20 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=xCOJvJdttZ51u7V9hXpNlWgdnarAn0DRdhv/ICf3xJ4=; b=rSodE16fEu60AGJKb7ccYlnlvW QZTW/b6V5obz9wLAJyzFItcIUaYNvkUCVqCxJmVhr1N0YCqqxVg/EB1tpTvsSiKd5sW0I0GhIGGKt neScnLt1uFucRT63dil/lJjxk1jYDb/pUYGYl/2KpC/GvAOn3v0y+gapBkyoy6CCBzSQ=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n8fut-0003NN-7a; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 11:04:13 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: X-Now-Playing: Joni Mitchell's _Archives: The Early Years (5)_: "Intro To "Marcie"" Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 11:04:10 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 29 Dec 2021 17:14:22 +0000") Message-ID: <87lezhwc11.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Drew Adams writes: > `describe-specified-language-support' raises an error if it is called > other than by way of the menu-bar. Please remove this restriction - > make it possible to invoke it any other way as well. > > [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Drew Adams writes: > `describe-specified-language-support' raises an error if it is called > other than by way of the menu-bar. Please remove this restriction - > make it possible to invoke it any other way as well. > > See this comment in mule-cmds.el: > > ;; This function is intended to be called from the menu: > ;; [menu-bar mule describe-language-environment LANGUAGE] > ;; and should not run it by `M-x describe-current-input-method-function'. We have plenty of commands that are meant to be called from menus only -- they don't make much sense otherwise. (Ideally they wouldn't be commands visible to the environment at all, but that's difficult to achieve.) Closing. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 15 05:04:29 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2022 10:04:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39104 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8fvB-0004xl-6U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 05:04:29 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47562) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n8fv8-0004xW-VT for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 05:04:27 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Dwu0Bggr/FFIrWKW6/BiWOlrOM6MWPhgtnPyIZi2QKU=; b=fSYBPxM2lI6mzFPOospjWOXzVY cfXFvw8u+XXBzYASvZ0lI+jjShEW8VYUOFfjQSQB9bAsENmqsGsBGqsXCKlDCoOTW1x/DHs5CwMsY UhwapcXHtOWTXlyQn3yRqgRvx8mCQ/2b4O4DZN58n3MYSzwMIVLDkvxTxdxWBn2MgiTU=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n8fv1-0003NU-5j for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2022 11:04:21 +0100 Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 11:04:17 +0100 Message-Id: <87k0f1wc0u.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #52876 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: tags 52876 notabug close 52876 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 52876 notabug close 52876 quit From unknown Thu Jun 19 14:00:19 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#52876: [External] : Re: bug#52876: 27.2; Call `describe-specified-language-support' without menu-bar Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2022 22:22:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 52876 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: "52876@debbugs.gnu.org" <52876@debbugs.gnu.org> Received: via spool by 52876-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B52876.164228527324484 (code B ref 52876); 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2dd6f3ed-cb72-44a1-826b-08d9d875511e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 15 Jan 2022 22:21:03.2582 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: GEF3bJ3nA68JbeiBAtSdCDc2bDf6nf2zlbzGI5p9K4QquEaxWwLTLh2R3n08olRCJRVxFIjMFdOgX/IYfSjh+Q== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN6PR10MB2800 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10228 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2110150000 definitions=main-2201150146 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: qTXNSu4jpa0Iu2ZFCIQGpgwWcS61-TZj X-Proofpoint-GUID: qTXNSu4jpa0Iu2ZFCIQGpgwWcS61-TZj X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > `describe-specified-language-support' raises an error if it is called > > other than by way of the menu-bar. Please remove this restriction - > > make it possible to invoke it any other way as well. > > > > See this comment in mule-cmds.el: > > > > ;; This function is intended to be called from the menu: > > ;; [menu-bar mule describe-language-environment LANGUAGE] > > ;; and should not run it by `M-x describe-current-input-method-function= '. >=20 > We have plenty of commands that are meant to be called from menus > only And? That general observation is irrelevant to a consideration of any _particular_ command. > -- they don't make much sense otherwise. In what way is what `describe-specified-language-support' does nonsensical if called other than by way of a menu? That's the question. Saying that we have commands that in fact don't make sense if called other than from a menu is NOT in any way, a reason why that's true of this command. Just doesn't follow logically, at all. > (Ideally they wouldn't be commands visible to the > environment at all, but that's difficult to achieve.) No idea what you're on about, there. But reasoning about "they" in that way makes no sense. SOME commands make sense only when called from a menu. It doesn't follow that every command that we currently bind only to a menu can't make sense if called another way. > Closing. Too bad.