From unknown Tue Aug 12 08:05:38 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#52765: 26.3; Elisp manual, use of the term "field" Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 01:26:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 52765 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 52765@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: "bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.16403091232733 (code B ref -1); Fri, 24 Dec 2021 01:26:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Dec 2021 01:25:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35315 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n0ZKl-0000i1-34 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2021 20:25:23 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:51302) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n0ZKj-0000hq-D5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 87ba8744-5a06-4f3d-e6bc-08d9c67c3619 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Dec 2021 01:25:03.4297 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: VmXkdWP4YokELDRrxVSnXzH3IhkE0VES+ao2Bv/yxrkgx/ChJIalMkisBC+uPo2GDrOVHh+r0Tgt4w52C3/y5A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR10MB3672 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10207 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=820 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2110150000 definitions=main-2112240005 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: vHPxZQs912EQCbAh6iChDlWlVYhBKBay X-Proofpoint-GUID: vHPxZQs912EQCbAh6iChDlWlVYhBKBay Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.220.165.32; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) [The Emacs manual uses the term "field" in several different ways, in different contexts. That's OK, though you might consider adding a Glossary entry for the term and give brief definitions of those main meanings there.] In any case, this bug report is about the Elisp manual. There, "field" is used very little, except in node `Fields'. My suggestion is to use "field" in that manual only with the meaning presented in that node. The other occurrences of "field" in the manual could usefully employ a different word, to avoid confusion. FWIW, this occurred to me when I saw mention in an Emacs mailing list that thing-at-point will now optionally respect a field at point. That makes it important that Elisp coders have some doc about fields. I was happy to find that the Elisp manual already provides that. (BTW, it would be good if the Elisp manual, like the Emacs manual, had a glossary node.) In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-08-29 Repository revision: 96dd0196c28bc36779584e47fffcca433c9309cd Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.19042 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -static -g3'' From unknown Tue Aug 12 08:05:38 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#52765: 26.3; Elisp manual, use of the term "field" Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 07:23:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 52765 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 52765@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 52765-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B52765.16403305374653 (code B ref 52765); Fri, 24 Dec 2021 07:23:02 +0000 Received: (at 52765) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Dec 2021 07:22:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35562 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n0eu9-0001Cy-Ac for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 02:22:17 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41614) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1n0eu7-0001Ci-AH; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 02:22:16 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=51518 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n0eu2-0008Om-0X; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 02:22:10 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=5moVhV2uyuLYWY+OTVDzBsgPutm32oEH/+aaPBBHGOc=; b=E7BAc27l55C8 sEt71UTOrhqs1Oxg8BtwEMzxFkpl+bisp7Ttd0pC1ru4wb4FFBJr6ce16Cip8bOpBSJz48W3H0KrV MB5JkrlQNhAokNnCzxmkEro4X5/UomCY1oHHd1W6dAuxHLKN60wnFaVj8Gz43IURwrRzVWuUa5WCp JrNhLpVLkhPYKjBjX88dLHWLmJQCL0wq+GrNn5pwP8cb2aeN8tdKKtho1mvSqK+8mt+fDHS1HC//3 D0OVWIsqoJk2b4hLfIIUy0tFFgMDcHe/hR/v6PJVY02+Oog9Qi1IdgDJ4lECwGqRAkd4m8Icv2Iqs hB8/B6UKK74PA+tS4wTmnw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4665 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n0eu0-0006MB-Rb; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 02:22:10 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 09:22:16 +0200 Message-Id: <834k6ytql3.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Fri, 24 Dec 2021 01:25:03 +0000) References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 52765 wontfix close 52765 thanks > From: Drew Adams > Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 01:25:03 +0000 > > In any case, this bug report is about the Elisp manual. There, "field" > is used very little, except in node `Fields'. My suggestion is to use > "field" in that manual only with the meaning presented in that node. > The other occurrences of "field" in the manual could usefully employ a > different word, to avoid confusion. I've now reviewed all the uses of "field" in the ELisp manual, and I don't see anything problematic with that. Moreover, replacing it with something else would produce in many cases awkward and potentially confusing wording. There's no need to be afraid of using the word "field" in its natural meaning just because we have a feature by that name. Closing.