From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 20 17:44:38 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Nov 2021 22:44:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43817 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1moZ66-0004wy-9K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Nov 2021 17:44:38 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:44310) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1moZ61-0004wj-90 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Nov 2021 17:44:37 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50702) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1moZ61-0004wO-0N for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Nov 2021 17:44:33 -0500 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]:62340) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1moZ5y-0002iO-Bk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Nov 2021 17:44:32 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246631.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 1AKKIBvX003729 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2021 22:44:26 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2021-07-09; bh=nC5ADKorE8oK2/hvjUXfpMhYWZz3uwHVh+PveJgdH4s=; b=iPrA3QonGniSiGal5JblfpeDvsxzjOvnXhqglYSZ9sntmpZZumz1HveouefdPEG6JHBp 2GrMuZEfcOlwNI40D/mhe3z1CzmWZ5t/nmxFhVHAKTSm8j6POCfsfC5ZhFYlchZz3+s/ UCKXeCSi1xvnnSYvQSoLkF2kaLHAAG6K5+eGYXpJqvnWIBHN6HLohJZHjgCECMjYCFc9 KOyV1f9SGQJcihSeSL+QcEhfPLOmwUPIjCUGjQr6LAF9EAjwnwaOtt1iSqgi4NyARAkL QdrSwU4DbS0eEB1HwjtXXXbLUuZ2Mzdlv8hSlBdNDbRnaEYcP/XDG2H2EUEk3GCqqAlT SQ== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 3ceqt22nsk-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2021 22:44:26 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 1AKMaRBv123311 for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2021 22:44:25 GMT Received: from nam10-dm6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam10lp2101.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.58.101]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3cep4uxu6a-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 20 Nov 2021 22:44:25 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=OLwztdeMMd06OVz6L4ulr30GFS39CEEejhbqxnE7VKEcO/kkhglwA7OqXmETQOm8Dz1T0fNyYMwloJsE37Hu8Ee7Q9pwqV8+00fpCS3TbyHHHU1NzQ1U4q8hge7/I++90h4lcJBYx+NhVXs1AyEwc2lo6H9NWcxXZedj0ii+4jAULj5LddC/eTMvPzaa1cDVcrXHW9yr/n9d6LeTi6Eh8uYrLmIe42muYNpWTLa9RHo4YEUOhSw7LQ6qudiIw0CfEUs6mPQjnRB5JHPL3Yv8DBwQV74QbuhksMYnocRaRdvw4btc94MrYAyUKNSLJ9+h/IaZhXsAVFTC/sb8ISG+Uw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=nC5ADKorE8oK2/hvjUXfpMhYWZz3uwHVh+PveJgdH4s=; b=eFi+Hne5UCKed2EZqfw5NGXulHumw9O30Epu2OnpHGo5vTLPJaMmM6rOwMtpxxuxyrDDQrCtrrlLu0225GWSKoN3llhMjwuicyeQYUL5xMr5abJEvEj+i2+7M7OyiRq0JxbTnBX0PTyDhV1Z7lAt/ionrLLFySGLQUM+hatWlnb/g2cJOLIGZTsqRKvbZ5kivpc6wXX5OaCesF6GFe5Cf6TaPf4qnfLqL/gKv/s2VNPdBvt7sW+9/OWbCFDiwsmMjgyI0FCq+L43MkCLSrJoqOC4k2XvQSZyYoLiB3rqnalihTUGB2Nemmn3j/DiAME7yh7BSSiLPT839WrzWHbyLg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=nC5ADKorE8oK2/hvjUXfpMhYWZz3uwHVh+PveJgdH4s=; b=SxlzMKQ2vB1M0BztiaToVeYfqkXk26YJOgGpaM6LfWpDCO8Rr8BesgAYrtXhXYL7vyeCRIkkEzE2UaLK6Gi6AyGaAAHnkY3FybFdjftbwkviW8BNOK4Ft9IHfhlv/UN//mIoVgk9LN76891WbUEK1+G07EQFmtpH9i8g+Kqap8g= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by SJ0PR10MB5664.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:3da::13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4713.22; Sat, 20 Nov 2021 22:44:23 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4588:646c:e330:8bc0]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4588:646c:e330:8bc0%7]) with mapi id 15.20.4713.022; Sat, 20 Nov 2021 22:44:23 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: "bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Subject: 26.3; Doc of `define-globalized-minor-mode' and global(ized) minor modes Thread-Topic: 26.3; Doc of `define-globalized-minor-mode' and global(ized) minor modes Thread-Index: AdfeXz7OcZHuD8yNSvCGxAGAhpPXwQ== Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2021 22:44:23 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4b6f35b0-b3e9-4a3c-f62d-08d9ac774c6a x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5664: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:6108; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(366004)(66476007)(66556008)(44832011)(64756008)(66446008)(33656002)(6506007)(186003)(7696005)(6916009)(9686003)(38100700002)(316002)(76116006)(8936002)(45080400002)(66946007)(8676002)(52536014)(122000001)(71200400001)(2906002)(86362001)(26005)(5660300002)(38070700005)(55016002)(508600001)(81973001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?wegRFhhuxnHWgI3sYjBfKNxgpVvgRygmjMTGKhUg/gw4I9H440sS1LgxkCvr?= =?us-ascii?Q?s6H+t9r0RBmCB2B/ct+t/o/Q0rsjDyPQNfHNA+gBy3XZmlKaEyaJxwA9rJph?= =?us-ascii?Q?kXuaagQBrmf3zDJujkw0lggHDEGoataNx1feEP2Q5VaWn9Bm+QOvtv+N/jFR?= =?us-ascii?Q?uNhwZuyCGAtfo+70nqjxR+9FHknD9a6UxYZ/g07ft8yowZm5+bQCZWmfJ8WM?= =?us-ascii?Q?mBwRE/VUg3Vl4LDnoJf5L/jhgNSSVvqgeYmVcd4Z/B6hRp+rvbQlb7omkZ5F?= =?us-ascii?Q?IwUASO+x3ZxLNkhGQZYSEMDftgQl2MYiT+0pIKNzUGOs8kDxN0s5pwA1w56S?= =?us-ascii?Q?A87YIReXFhhMXGeoMGqCYwB9FE67AscAz6llqjxk5wwCo6SM9cdASYRtAMQO?= =?us-ascii?Q?x48dvi5MYTVB6QIzFj+Xrxs3dFTtLJyszKg6KLqvA8ow0/WWck8chdcsImGT?= =?us-ascii?Q?9bP619EtGebabpc9sJ//5sVzGoKukgnb4KX/z3GNLtx3a5mrPvKKlnH+38o1?= =?us-ascii?Q?y93Hk3P8rQ8JpFMbL9rvE3C1sNDDDn7SGbvSz0aa5bdhNfvW953UzX4KGuxy?= =?us-ascii?Q?8JXDvdqkvFWHCBJcU3B00CV7vkGbSy2/ModAv/MOICkzGijt0Z8KQwLUF1Dc?= =?us-ascii?Q?0E75sdtrlsB8iV9Jw5J9pLPn6ignRcYGXCb5MLX01VbUDV/CNNT/OqEJQQvI?= =?us-ascii?Q?sCLjopERrvnwJnATPTUQZMq64g8pI2yvy6mNZFnEEzwKPDBzBE7rWQD7qW/a?= =?us-ascii?Q?5MGtF45PgKq9YIocTQesHXHbyr76zViD3C+vpW6aLewVd9KZZ97ZdstLJeYL?= =?us-ascii?Q?cjxiazh483JCXWGSkyWbATsj3hVYUpZ9LYFJnqI/WC4e/dG5dQ8PnlIILqjr?= =?us-ascii?Q?83DKaDUVUO31jmumhLHaAeEmo9hygs6E+tTt6Z2FGOT/UrWTS0GB4qyNEL33?= =?us-ascii?Q?fWAtqsAyNhvUAQ2omVF3tUdLOHyZj5B/SLYPdG84J2kfjcoY4mWTiGdCMLNz?= =?us-ascii?Q?r1qVjOLDvgRdyQWRpZwsAggU3mRPxLSn+qwJXOFQb4pPLfFACbeStmEedmb8?= =?us-ascii?Q?pJdTW4IB8oVE5BrT5N+qZoX6U3Y5y7Bax9oBV08oUkYSvhz8kzcytwFsC0ni?= =?us-ascii?Q?zGWAlcX2L3wba31QOkMtQ3OJ7iioD+Fy3HY4mLSGh1jaShmqrF2r0vMnYOQ5?= =?us-ascii?Q?Vvz1JN+HTGjt7iyimdKsa5WQ27crOLOoSzKRqWr/bbPV76u+v+6v+y5azTVf?= =?us-ascii?Q?olptGBZpwTQXTgf1yN70C6d4NyxAL6abhOwWLhKYuoIoxiXv1m31GgCe4O0N?= =?us-ascii?Q?ah2/DMMvD2IH59YBg2o4CE2ilZDuhyaa4Ii2MdlIxLI1kmWLPwbtqApYcRHa?= =?us-ascii?Q?QqG3a3/OokQIyEY3mYzAfV1/vuLszSUCoRBSNnmNRvTYF3MqJjsmfM/NS/n1?= =?us-ascii?Q?fFBRMyYLMoMiUwt1dP3CjRkCi2301V8zRV79MFD+0es6hxOpFfu2jhr6q9wJ?= =?us-ascii?Q?gAH3iTcLNxHJE+MgXq4wmG9IhAM0LV5kgz2dw0zH/stQ0taSRIr1mdayJ6ME?= =?us-ascii?Q?i0YXn0Impfheh6mmI4mfMRM2NI0jBDlCGZWVW042gUf8+lrWpw90daIXq+uy?= =?us-ascii?Q?kg=3D=3D?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4b6f35b0-b3e9-4a3c-f62d-08d9ac774c6a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Nov 2021 22:44:23.1286 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: loQ4pT+6xF/PkTYOT3h/7ltt9Iw3Ti+1Ie0cFBBVoh0W6DpazPNOHMPAJ5/bpdiOtcrgsXHNjJdrO2wTbLBAFg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SJ0PR10MB5664 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10174 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=999 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2110150000 definitions=main-2111200145 X-Proofpoint-GUID: TzjNytglREHU4bYMhm3MuKFmRH6VY-wu X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: TzjNytglREHU4bYMhm3MuKFmRH6VY-wu Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.220.177.32; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) AFAICT, neither the doc strings nor the Elisp manual (node `Defining Minor Modes') tells you how, from Lisp, to turn OFF a global(ized) minor mode. It tells you how to turn it ON from Lisp, and it tells you that you can use the Customize UI to turn it on and off. But it doesn't tell you how to turn it OFF, i.e., to turn off the mode in all buffers. The doc for a globalized minor mode `foo-mode' says this: With prefix ARG, enable Global-Foo mode if ARG is positive; otherwise, disable it. If called from Lisp, enable the mode if ARG is omitted or nil. The first sentence describes the interactive behavior. The second tells you how to turn it ON from Lisp. How to turn it off? The doc should at least make a connection between the prefix-arg value and the Lisp arg. Please fix this. It should be clear from the docs how to turn the mode off everywhere, as well as on everywhere. This can even be important if some defcustom has a :set that needs to, e.g., turn it off everywhere and then turn the mode back on wherever it was on. Turning on `debug-on-entry' for a global(ized) minor mode, and then using the Customize UI to toggle its option, a user can discover an arg they can pass with Lisp to turn it off. But users shouldn't need to jump through such hoops to find out how to turn it off. In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-08-29 Repository revision: 96dd0196c28bc36779584e47fffcca433c9309cd Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.19042 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -static -g3'' From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 20 18:17:59 2021 Received: (at 52007) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Nov 2021 23:17:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43836 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1moZcM-0005ui-PQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Nov 2021 18:17:59 -0500 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]:11934) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1moZcI-0005uV-Tq for 52007@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 20 Nov 2021 18:17:57 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246631.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 1AKKIB6Q003729 for <52007@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 20 Nov 2021 23:17:54 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2021-07-09; bh=7f8t8H2DzJDB7FF+zM9bc3uvdB2Zz7GI4k6Xp3U6wvI=; b=Q9pNVUcWU2AU4CZe1hc4eS1WjfICCZ/zEGGZ20pQ0jimU7fq+W+5oEhJXUU6R7lLRRKO K6wRMdpESVdGlnhWUiP/u2/zsfUWRCezUq4FLIUADnMyLkrEAIjr28axiLIa2Wg8iCTI 8vzB/PfbcvGTezFJQIM6g/EpYrOh0yhzMFLJYwICoDQnq89gTUhflU6O2suXOmYNxo3u QvyWV4vyxCc3mY95DQSI5tJtBJGkxFAQdTZcuutlpHFKsXd0MooB0yqsuMYdn7IAAc46 AivACprV6+759/EBNMFSM8lHmQeWgbc0wdqr81+XBcd39Yxu8udRjj5CenHx56If/4Eo xA== Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 3ceqt22qq1-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for <52007@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 20 Nov 2021 23:17:54 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 1AKNAeAL174998 for <52007@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 20 Nov 2021 23:17:53 GMT Received: from nam12-bn8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn8nam12lp2171.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.55.171]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3ceq2b24vk-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for <52007@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 20 Nov 2021 23:17:53 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=jNQJNDbpk9mEfIr71VZusmcNvN3wlo9AiBKASM4Udqh9jGoBWeFQSM7znnq+6mGjMY1OBkN14XKVyzV0wq18o6WFYlQc1ExZP1WGcl6plUw0dYrAeuN2lPjeadZ24lOMAFMN1dVkcVx56F15wLVWJUAcfoD3lahIR4qkyqwlYImzqef79UxZCm9FjX1mI1lFb7wFzFK8qua9X1ppiggxC19rDFL+6z7nnsM/pcLbwbJvfAgQUfXHocSSNHKCiFwasG5Wfei5eTG+doAOfc4FFp0hz1ko993Ofb3kTa0MW4ZIYQXGaXrRWGzKPzd1YCpcT7km8E6BxlQvbL810tUB0A== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=7f8t8H2DzJDB7FF+zM9bc3uvdB2Zz7GI4k6Xp3U6wvI=; b=Tqr6+j5I2L2Mh280zwSOzLi4LdqBBG97mkdNmOkafv6qw8jbWHnCtsVCjIMgCQpYm6qWISh/XPQ8aYK8Gh8ken7Rclz3AUeevjGSzNjK7L40m+v/yN7AhcEw2gaqHiBWypEI946PxRh8EWYhC26ovu6rn8phIIkBTuI1e/JB1sRWKJyMIACwXE8ObE3qbz/RDblVDnwaEOa8rZuHfe5onYSDrHp0titubejSJa9/2drTxhWaFtIFskrvM+y9AvTDs2k3Wii/4hSY9agsUAQvXzrRkglvxBvQk1Z4MLbHdxTqiP8J+OIHOnDiQ4a+wS/+bEUACkeEK97HCsFvIirpjw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=7f8t8H2DzJDB7FF+zM9bc3uvdB2Zz7GI4k6Xp3U6wvI=; b=mUyliQTbfWpoPF6JImfepxZxJFEicsLKfMZVNeXDB01m8+or4NA/qxVQa6HSR97IwnUJgPOj39J8dDgsgS6kuQHWNZ37Kz4X9LpGeKuah7zvU9TIYhLpfuzAhaRtxb16wsldK1IbYIGqHJq4g7CgZLFj9itoVKEsIJDIjVLtrD4= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by BYAPR10MB2567.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a02:ab::19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4713.22; Sat, 20 Nov 2021 23:17:49 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4588:646c:e330:8bc0]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4588:646c:e330:8bc0%7]) with mapi id 15.20.4713.022; Sat, 20 Nov 2021 23:17:49 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Drew Adams , "52007@debbugs.gnu.org" <52007@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: RE: 26.3; Doc of `define-globalized-minor-mode' and global(ized) minor modes Thread-Topic: 26.3; Doc of `define-globalized-minor-mode' and global(ized) minor modes Thread-Index: AdfeXz7OcZHuD8yNSvCGxAGAhpPXwQABCvEA Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2021 23:17:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 04ef64d8-9dfa-42bd-64ac-08d9ac7bf85d x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR10MB2567: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:1923; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(366004)(55016002)(44832011)(9686003)(7696005)(38070700005)(316002)(66556008)(66446008)(64756008)(4744005)(66946007)(2906002)(66476007)(71200400001)(8676002)(508600001)(8936002)(26005)(122000001)(76116006)(2940100002)(52536014)(5660300002)(33656002)(86362001)(6506007)(110136005)(186003)(38100700002)(81973001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?75EsnYgTlB7qGaW3FmvDXwT7ot/qcOWAT2m+LbVaomx/J/3F9drIbPAyZzm/?= =?us-ascii?Q?QS/tE6ZEmNGnVONuPQYN7/rODZ5IWuAEeB1+iPrKqYTeCXXwpu40Ip+T7Ars?= =?us-ascii?Q?ilD0NTzx1OS47Mv0HCxpKn38plHosV4TSudtZ5ArszmSkfrpK/7GZ0ncLDrZ?= =?us-ascii?Q?hSBO20mjKeExScIQ3FgQiCDu9XKb4M5bhMbIzR6LqT2+kH91V+vcfhW9AVo/?= =?us-ascii?Q?n0D5rwJG1uar4XrS+Eo+DOHYZVNsDejxhUB+/FxnaGMaXlkFf/8BWn0RJASD?= =?us-ascii?Q?BfIIQeWy5bWrrQJP2qextBdY6aQTw2KVSnssb1X5/LRKLo5q2hligNYX7e26?= =?us-ascii?Q?gJ9FVZTT35kWD9pzas5uxYWEJcSyU1VPdH23bzSdAknBWL2rR2Lz0+bn6tID?= =?us-ascii?Q?wYEALXiwf77T1ycO6vsMYP90zGciNsa7OGPE+81iX/9bXflIHH02cvXO+UfM?= =?us-ascii?Q?VYEtAkku3F8GMFsJTwko2XYOrXjF6dwojYhF9N1fVFCE6U+aiCgR+xPl5c3v?= =?us-ascii?Q?aUkX+XlLD6cmHfiSlnL3qbiZZBGbQKBG16j3T2Ab6XQlS1WPLrjb96BZW8aV?= =?us-ascii?Q?GRhq6QQgw1NrEyYVWagdHbUoZgc9zCwuXGABpm3VNUa0wnnvBfisw6KEkbx6?= =?us-ascii?Q?HyjsM+THM7UCVipjKE2kWYTNLznmnfbUNeRFmRjnZ069M5GRhiuJ9Mp5eQnp?= =?us-ascii?Q?gWF4+J9y1IalkyhJOI1Bpe/VCF3U5Ij53YZbuf7lCiBJZJDBGpnOuZMRRDfh?= =?us-ascii?Q?s8iyC4dKNCaePDO4+9uG7ddvTtiaqUfZA9Z6HUQpOvxEvAreeNd6oS3xymWI?= =?us-ascii?Q?Am3YszVzQe4h6Zu2ZhSmZFSkmaMreNdZXesPYlOjAUzuIkD+LJNpFtolU7Gz?= =?us-ascii?Q?34MDI4l9s/2ajEY01NLHGxcDpzDA6Q1usY4b6x/05LNV+0n78rpbJMHuvFPY?= =?us-ascii?Q?zjOppvfbhCzqw3d7Or5FmK9QeeyQCh5tPyaAltYNUqMSvJwbdX84sApa2m5Z?= =?us-ascii?Q?YADiaKr2CXPwjaPtaMYf3RTXfuat3vdgq0tGWjFvaLldbtINz19jttkWO2pr?= =?us-ascii?Q?X1LViglGC2VL4iJs29mn38z8ofhojUuUwkNdaXJyTvV7sEs25kKECcRmKzjA?= =?us-ascii?Q?7/m3Cy5UpYht4TD+tpA12HawPfi8dD23BdxgLQ72VhvtacdH2mGaWJFTAoCQ?= =?us-ascii?Q?Vm1l4W0ZKQQ9VAxWwooV95j7AetNHGmmr24RE8ftRpblpRhS3SNIhSPydn0M?= =?us-ascii?Q?77il82FjXbJhTIk5/6BV8YA4umyStbD20H9YU7IPS1V0jYcxJ5uaDiVc5xOV?= =?us-ascii?Q?38B5LdFckrfuhshrNIh39KwFm5GR7BUpeiJO2tpPS/sG9ba4hyMBzyDTT6HT?= =?us-ascii?Q?n4pQKwEn5CPVEXrboces+jUmW+DWBzNDaV7lTLHKgUoixRsUmRLJoM7DqgrC?= =?us-ascii?Q?noBWod/pzjyHKv/3+qckHgm5625f+PzF4fusQiGO619R1OV/0KCuuYpW1LIz?= =?us-ascii?Q?nI6zaM84LdoBtvGIXlbcfR089zO829GakmFVKyXGSg8BrCvpWsARiP+EEJNl?= =?us-ascii?Q?LRFr9vlGjUwV9v3OXVIFLDMRO80P47DH96fOnRPR6xeGeLHHNfLB24JOYkTc?= =?us-ascii?Q?6g=3D=3D?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 04ef64d8-9dfa-42bd-64ac-08d9ac7bf85d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Nov 2021 23:17:49.5897 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: mo4zH2zGGTPsQS/Rtmw+IlXORNBxpEU2ItQ9bwVX3bMv6wu8zTqM+/YXu94s3KYWXV230INuYOu6i8Em6bP69w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR10MB2567 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10174 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=730 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2110150000 definitions=main-2111200150 X-Proofpoint-GUID: jFe4JvrdhJ_SCyJjrAf5tvYmQlIj3YGG X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: jFe4JvrdhJ_SCyJjrAf5tvYmQlIj3YGG X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52007 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) It's even worse than I thought. The first line of the doc string of the globalized version of minor mode `foo-mode' (`global-foo-mode') says that it toggles `foo-mode' everywhere: Toggle Foo mode in all buffers. It doesn't do that at all. Instead, it toggles `global-foo-mode'. BIG difference. If `foo-mode' is ON in buffer B1 and OFF in buffer B2, then toggling `foo-mode' everywhere would result in `foo-mode' being OFF in B1 and ON in B2. What instead happens is that if the global mode was OFF then `global-foo-mode' is turned ON, which turns ON `foo-mode' in all buffers. And if the global mode was ON then it is turned OFF, which turns OFF `foo-mode' in all buffers. We don't seem to have a command that toggles a minor mode in all buffers, that is, flips its state ON/OFF. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 21 01:41:16 2021 Received: (at 52007-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2021 06:41:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44015 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mogXM-0006Ph-9C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 01:41:16 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44558) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mogXK-0006PU-G8 for 52007-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 01:41:14 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=43114 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mogXF-0000Jt-35; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 01:41:09 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=7k9nbx2579yKkBV0tWPCAdVNcIrczgkAfu4hvVaN5d0=; b=Wgo3/ZDLG3h1aZxjFBEu WB/oqqIxuRC6AlClfG/5UQzLEdCINUyIJNKwHvAIRrxPq2LErZvc+60eBZsWSQnvVfGRCY3RDzDhh lJuxniFtnBCOECuJIBGJ6O40HOSrLVHsJPQVJALnbTeAbR7HFKMsTdBE7uLUskqTHBkeLSQaTzDpP +kF9t+GXCdc71ueWScNCfC72xobWPECMO0i1hzuurKs5tqkRMZM/bjx2UO42jKKhHsfKmJNi8K9Kf Zc0uNFenwrGPu5sxZK0usPya2Gx5UsbzBb72l+CA8dOWHXEYT3OhQe2XoN3fTbj0nByRKxbdJAVo5 kXPTw6TCzoPdBA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1494 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mogXE-0003HO-O5; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 01:41:09 -0500 Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2021 08:41:13 +0200 Message-Id: <83czmuroxi.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 20 Nov 2021 22:44:23 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#52007: 26.3; Doc of `define-globalized-minor-mode' and global(ized) minor modes References: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52007-done Cc: 52007-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2021 22:44:23 +0000 > > The doc for a globalized minor mode `foo-mode' says this: > > With prefix ARG, enable Global-Foo mode if ARG is positive; > otherwise, disable it. If called from Lisp, enable the mode if > ARG is omitted or nil. You are looking at an old Emacs. Emacs 28 says: With prefix ARG, enable Global Display-Line-Numbers mode if ARG is positive; otherwise, disable it. If called from Lisp, toggle the mode if ARG is ‘toggle’. Enable the mode if ARG is nil, omitted, or is a positive number. Disable the mode if ARG is a negative number. So this is already fixed, and I'm closing this bug. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 21 01:42:10 2021 Received: (at 52007) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2021 06:42:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44022 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mogYE-0006Rr-JN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 01:42:10 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45334) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mogYC-0006Rd-VK for 52007@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 01:42:09 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=43164 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mogY6-0000Wu-FM; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 01:42:03 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=nFoq1qqiXID1qXxj6cJoJSAlvDXCmJnGzbKWI2CNd5c=; b=jLWKvirSo5iC 5ntMRC5gWzOEtX9m4/45NoeF7OvLm/JhjsuoIY1JpWUkGQqLy6JU/qFJ/lbUsbNbiolKuquEBE4lG eQsDbo8ZJdELTiY/KBQbG5Pbw/pyDZNol+N9WCbLyNrYN4b3shVsjA5dKXQJ9XMkUNPExLvNJWhY6 2agDH89RNPYdSFHMqO6xPha9T+JDfu6lrfDcWGuT3kYnb2mAO+RNZNL02Kez0jEbI2PFlunShHzw2 kGh6sMqzD0cqk74jQYwdTWUlLqvvcUrOHAx1lITQ89RTaVZd43W6xuy36nxykb8c9z9xq7c0YnluZ 2dTbapHQOcfP/UMcyHYnQw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1545 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mogY3-0004ij-Kx; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 01:42:00 -0500 Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2021 08:42:04 +0200 Message-Id: <83bl2erow3.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 20 Nov 2021 23:17:49 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#52007: 26.3; Doc of `define-globalized-minor-mode' and global(ized) minor modes References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52007 Cc: 52007@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2021 23:17:49 +0000 > > It's even worse than I thought. > > The first line of the doc string of the globalized > version of minor mode `foo-mode' (`global-foo-mode') > says that it toggles `foo-mode' everywhere: > > Toggle Foo mode in all buffers. > > It doesn't do that at all. Instead, it toggles > `global-foo-mode'. No, it turns ON both foo-mode and global-foo-mode. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 21 12:22:37 2021 Received: (at 52007) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2021 17:22:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45900 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1moqY1-0001Jk-A3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:22:37 -0500 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]:64120) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1moqXy-0001Jc-Sl for 52007@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:22:35 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246631.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 1ALEFowj003729; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:22:34 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2021-07-09; bh=Vh2PyDihAhI+Bqyn47+qoyx+I1ZknmmBBa5pTWT0FaI=; b=QjWZk0WldEn17+Uoa9D6/X1Lx1nlMZljbXv1EcEl8uRkRtne06DZ2DC6x2jJqQAGXQR7 Kgzw5k9YzF0K5PHfVH1nLfryPZGkQp11fJMyQKa7lFx+klYByEOQCXoqjdogArkZQJSn 9ADJpg6JSwE0bt7bOb0lfHX0k8hkYB9k3o2SLS393Ye7PM68ShAcAfMjEg53/mmQuurR ysCzaG5NBJgTZzSUHzX4bMBehbQ3htYNA3z1BCjbSRzI7V5wVT9T/LjYOMtMe7FWrxOR z6DIDIMeeH6gLfF0fRGcHjZTFj34Q2+Wo9az2FOZnSf4wpt0Wd11lYmcmwZGfKf9twy3 Wg== Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 3ceqt24m5q-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:22:33 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 1ALHGUqd151865; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:22:32 GMT Received: from nam12-dm6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam12lp2173.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.59.173]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3cep4vnmju-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:22:32 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=m7IoNUzl0n4L1s+FEZsdZMWGHTB1p+7zVaqsi1GzPP9aebZyFOgkzUR8Ul63lFVa5bBzmXTtzFU/yy6aewPzYEZXGBtGqJE6vXPzSEfIIBG24j/B9c1/SDP91V2NFSaTt+9Iwu3lNWfVwcZUrRO9DMVcBE8npz4exh53PvR17vXInFWaHQVLtaV9fC6vkuHik222k2fx/947b+YLG4FZka7vFJ0SZtVmGsqEAoUSxKZcJ1Dj+aiBthHnp0jKuXvz6rLbHWT3P5QO4Rw2D/IjpZBWatcqBerzFD6XzhXYOcQCSEwRXcJrN1eluZEC6Ei1wgQVQVKs6rNTU25E49XqBw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=Vh2PyDihAhI+Bqyn47+qoyx+I1ZknmmBBa5pTWT0FaI=; b=HOs6Hw5GVSkaAOmfdj/mOhxZ0asRZ9VFxZPNSKqEkZ2xCJGTlQpxPyTCAIK42FctoubdoLJVxL7MA4qvpnUfh8b9GVaiReudR1J5tHzgJQHTZSg1FQQcnH20PcuyPgXFK8fPUqIKYgIptjFWaL3lCsncGhdf+3ryEr1L9HxpwLQonFg1Y7AjX0vQMwUq/G3okh5B50SwaUtiDdcVzZnXZCKp4x3uMy6ZaxPGHPSfAeDHKtUvJMxzTX4+cNgUJYuOXUj8TbPUoGASBq5DXeO//G4+auc6tt+dn2rNrXtstwg3k9fFxoSde/gDrGfMBuXRRiYb8FwW2dgdXpSY3wTGDQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=Vh2PyDihAhI+Bqyn47+qoyx+I1ZknmmBBa5pTWT0FaI=; b=h80ebtIm2KD8/W71pCbMX4P3IhxyLBB7Gkunxpk1dmsSJSR9R3me2nQVLMAqzAOqb5UAx4zS6n7cCdQLIRiXG+yaonnH3UKho/lGnid9Py5kBcaXFfweQd551fWLfqaAbqLKclJsbDVmG4zm0KZA1gAYPvtqr77iEWam5VfjVSc= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by BYAPR10MB2694.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a02:b2::33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4713.22; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:22:30 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4588:646c:e330:8bc0]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4588:646c:e330:8bc0%7]) with mapi id 15.20.4713.024; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:22:30 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#52007: 26.3; Doc of `define-globalized-minor-mode' and global(ized) minor modes Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#52007: 26.3; Doc of `define-globalized-minor-mode' and global(ized) minor modes Thread-Index: AdfeXz7OcZHuD8yNSvCGxAGAhpPXwQAQ6lcZABYnczA= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:22:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83bl2erow3.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83bl2erow3.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 965e2456-457c-404d-688e-08d9ad137f8f x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR10MB2694: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7219; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(366004)(66946007)(6506007)(4744005)(66476007)(9686003)(66556008)(64756008)(8676002)(508600001)(66446008)(2906002)(38070700005)(44832011)(76116006)(7696005)(4326008)(38100700002)(33656002)(122000001)(186003)(71200400001)(86362001)(316002)(5660300002)(55016002)(6916009)(8936002)(26005)(52536014)(81973001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?ai54AVp/SR9d7twe2jBQviLzd4laxi9Lo+1uzKN0EqcgrzPpHvefgEIgYYc8?= =?us-ascii?Q?WXnPzQ5B5ehKMr0e8H8niuhc/l2xYxop6RDhU9IrArBeTkN6dzpZ9rfFw5kr?= =?us-ascii?Q?gvIQwjXRo5ZYc9kQ7BHNm3jSB3OoOHTI9feAUbDZRGm/UwTMPOdZEF6mnmwj?= =?us-ascii?Q?qnJtfn2qouRf320mAaQ2rYbhhHuxIv446/3ykX4ebcY0HVJKe/ktRaZaWUR2?= =?us-ascii?Q?fDWWuh2bzMkFHpUON1zuIwuGNBaZAt7LQUxZps6gmShVJeJlJPS2lGb1bDwN?= =?us-ascii?Q?Oq3YkbKPLYTOH9hUfPY9HZrESuHdaHJiyMKZnVHaXJVZRdoFe5qAAHGdJnI/?= =?us-ascii?Q?ZZUsnbhBvyoEz/8QTr2OfgreSePDoij5choTQW6GiDmiMuTMPaopWUQidydz?= =?us-ascii?Q?ToE9TcosBiA+qJpV3qk1+A7AqL5p2Th6f6ds5qcBqmgpNK5+I+4HB9AOfZMQ?= =?us-ascii?Q?pM9IcRpCGNrdg3cwTBdTiI4hQuhAaofv2RTCoJi5OuYfkD7L8O87BoJ+GmON?= =?us-ascii?Q?LUxYqcr5otfrmdWCkfxinHZS4T+GkAwfS1ncVUULu+iBQHLh97qN1PY7qFSU?= =?us-ascii?Q?QpvROCa/gCAAmcoYity4l1hl/pOEB1Ftg8aQYMI2mkh+Wd/dnz2oJuaqWVoP?= =?us-ascii?Q?7mypYWS7r0ABANEv+F4iZF7adwLEEEUyNMntBM0rJqRbBWhTxhc+eNeVB/Kk?= =?us-ascii?Q?cYopXToIEyaOUsU2Xha6GWcWm+LG4wiR/QLnJNmLst+bFmgcLUZse8VJDwnb?= =?us-ascii?Q?YunECLgm4ROdWmvJOdlQxMi3MRlkYxEzkgdek4zqnG/9LKr50tSS0kzgxxKD?= =?us-ascii?Q?x+RHz5Nhc6bTln8rahT4SucDWZLNETWA+xiliuhNSotL1mCdU4dKYr2Mi3Z4?= =?us-ascii?Q?wHZLbY+ijlDOkZLSe+F20yGJrVKODQAG/CKze0Rr1DCKdgAnA6ZSXeWK1LTd?= =?us-ascii?Q?m21YNKmn5lIGhEkECF3+/N4qDuVfDxignqzF6rygd5oqIPGmGwBE1xMClmHZ?= =?us-ascii?Q?ANuifLImRPez1q/iAdBxJtcYD+J0m4+Ii3Ge4ygonJCoVsA/WfdzslBUi47I?= =?us-ascii?Q?ScX2rRt3le0UUiUNbKxiuB3PqhPcB1f4xA7E8VTr8hc/HL4tgmOQ6bkx2XzS?= =?us-ascii?Q?EncjGwbhu7/qSdH9bI8VbCwJweTlf3UcaesdldldD8HRBvjkz//Jh2SRFs+x?= =?us-ascii?Q?BPWn2jqVem3LI/TCjP9ooL2W3CQa9a5ey7XaJBfjGMWRNYPLAauQoe6Ul6eB?= =?us-ascii?Q?HlEfDMAwIKU5UkTP3TUzUdNqj8ssYOmcXpX37e18TRMpwUbR70vdgbQsoiLt?= =?us-ascii?Q?oKxKU2gt79GDI3n4hLMUNZznM96E+j87ser1TBr9u2uFSlqDFiR/uIeCVMT8?= =?us-ascii?Q?McVfGJ95KJ/5f1zpw7ds2dTDz/XnAHptq+AGm6vUW+cVCHIEZ1nigPDGPAcc?= =?us-ascii?Q?M+vVDnXwRun9wHQR/ctzIdQiZR83SQzg1tVuwFyVy3YEdyadynCZ4uxEcvRo?= =?us-ascii?Q?fIJd7SxtZjXWK4uhJpXIwvFYV9tIotJy+iQ00DPqEo1k82Eu2R15FyxQo+Is?= =?us-ascii?Q?Hvx58iew2PvUsj1L8rOIJTOQpIZ/9KF/RA/tWLMmya/m/eXNhXPyIhaS+YUE?= =?us-ascii?Q?uw=3D=3D?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 965e2456-457c-404d-688e-08d9ad137f8f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Nov 2021 17:22:30.4370 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: IK2hOSD2u/bUrreKG+Z+8w7U3rLq6ozJJUPpALQjQvvJ+g4yus8zEGg/dFV1VgNiuCnVhNXYFQVoHMKrey1WfA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR10MB2694 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10175 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=804 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2110150000 definitions=main-2111210108 X-Proofpoint-GUID: PBRq0SH3jhOMHzjDMM0OzjX_FSYIxtKV X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: PBRq0SH3jhOMHzjDMM0OzjX_FSYIxtKV X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52007 Cc: "52007@debbugs.gnu.org" <52007@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > It's even worse than I thought. > > > > The first line of the doc string of the globalized > > version of minor mode `foo-mode' (`global-foo-mode') > > says that it toggles `foo-mode' everywhere: > > > > Toggle Foo mode in all buffers. > > > > It doesn't do that at all. Instead, it toggles > > `global-foo-mode'. >=20 > No, it turns ON both foo-mode and global-foo-mode. You missed the point of the bug report. Toggling the global mode turns them both on (or off, depending on the current value of `global-foo-mode') in all buffers, yes. That's not what it means to toggle `foo-mode' everywhere. Doing that would flip the value that `foo-mode' (non-global mode) has in each buffer. Correcting the doc to say that it toggles the global mode was correct. Saying that it toggles the local mode everywhere was incorrect. Glad this will be fixed in Emacs 28. (And no, I wasn't "looking at an old Emacs". I reported on the latest Emacs release, Emacs 27.2.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 21 12:28:44 2021 Received: (at 52007) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2021 17:28:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45909 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1moqdw-0001TE-BM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:28:44 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57262) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1moqdt-0001T0-Mt for 52007@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:28:43 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=57140 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1moqdo-0001xL-AI; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:28:36 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=mzsj6YmXdC7P1beM/wJQT+kZQ8o8ocdTb0KwBPLefsA=; b=my886Q4qlbpY 3TwHkmGMGCKhCE8J1imRminZRFi//LqJlhVUNmA5AybBNGGShfk8B2itkiLq/MXsjqfrOO9QwYhNG X2/ebm4r52KmxHLSZkBEUk88vZNBhLNTPkPnaIqYUMR7Zv9/GLF+tRNnDxsvUVAelq+pUV4qu4Eqj DceC/l4KBeoa4DmJZcWBrCBOCqdcDYx2JFotPLeEU0jIDLvUA9/UQrnVijPI89gff0Pa8FtLnW+oY aTRa8aR6a/0npi87lJjdElbf5Iuyd3YFrmbRFElMvAlb3c3THonfPITw4NONtKbxWzw2o3EdbtVr2 2UGWpS53C6lIAyGY7OJwBw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1898 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1moqdn-0002j6-Rg; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:28:36 -0500 Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2021 19:28:40 +0200 Message-Id: <83o86dquyf.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:22:30 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#52007: 26.3; Doc of `define-globalized-minor-mode' and global(ized) minor modes References: <83bl2erow3.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52007 Cc: 52007@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "52007@debbugs.gnu.org" <52007@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:22:30 +0000 > > > > Toggle Foo mode in all buffers. > > > > > > It doesn't do that at all. Instead, it toggles > > > `global-foo-mode'. > > > > No, it turns ON both foo-mode and global-foo-mode. > > You missed the point of the bug report. > Toggling the global mode turns them both on (or off, > depending on the current value of `global-foo-mode') > in all buffers, yes. No. It turns on foo-mode in all buffers, and it turns on global-foo-mode globally -- it is nonsense to talk about "global mode in a buffer", because global modes are, well, global. > That's not what it means to toggle `foo-mode' > everywhere. Doing that would flip the value that > `foo-mode' (non-global mode) has in each buffer. And it does. > Glad this will be fixed in Emacs 28. (And no, I > wasn't "looking at an old Emacs". I reported on > the latest Emacs release, Emacs 27.2.) Your report said 26.3. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 21 12:45:59 2021 Received: (at 52007) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2021 17:46:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45943 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1moqud-0001w6-Jv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:45:59 -0500 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]:3816) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1moqub-0001vw-H4 for 52007@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:45:58 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246631.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 1ALEBJ1m014980; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:45:56 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2021-07-09; bh=niObUu38Vyv1kLrIKgUBPBZ+rIyad52a+OHGA0QJvf8=; b=rhnhihvVqFL4pu8FopW78Ga6pKhAqNmJ7GkqQllY/00AG+LVBsrEowNyDG4yyozUH/Nn xUv3ot5RyQEYS9N9EhVkX7dY/WqBj0A/I1Jr3tjINwoplOa1QdTuJaRyJnxQWm4rsICm /CPmfyhpCHeZ1Ke03bZz9pQYfRTymCLhdtPGiEW7dvR19Yr0QCwfILODJAi1VPHOW74l UgYo1SgxYALeF6oo221VfXIPg3jY8EVT8kcco+Nhe4y9/EC7YNLloeIp6D7FGd53nAJ+ o4MfGD5GzjtuxVbn66aVG9QEAZfdFYKUUzxhRN9yw7iN4T7g1dcCe6a3zTdbObslwBrs rQ== Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 3ceqt24n2p-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:45:56 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 1ALHjJf8172268; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:45:55 GMT Received: from nam12-mw2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-mw2nam12lp2041.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.66.41]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3cfaspntc0-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:45:55 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=fcSUcF44N5CLD39iZDfUx7RsHmksqICYBSXqvXpRbnF/bBi22uKYUgVjxL/J2C5aMOTUumkqHiWuuXqwKp48EpnIOgRapgRL0uJRH8RGB+MdueSkvzvKiM5UGdGch2P7zqH+wcZ0FU7iy9HN/ijLeFJDZ5lvHxcxvry0G39twcgu4KM8lCy9SkY4EKfRyvSF3Ykti5SrlKsRJglbWOoSnPtRsrzPI//j/AvnsfDb/hY5uKnmlGNnx92LVmnaEP5AoYXCyD4jmWnTqmXw0WnkhUVS283gUDGGR1FZfqQWxLHNQ/gc0n63nKlCoH+NblMHcOpURWHJjSnzy3wgDPKyQQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=niObUu38Vyv1kLrIKgUBPBZ+rIyad52a+OHGA0QJvf8=; b=iJQQVm54bM3w/zQi1t6XGj5CvS6zhJcpqMtL8THuCXgxFusatxyQ1EApFb8N3uL9CIfxrofN2H8ZsdiZRampg2ONjr0TbWW+cgoz7XwqP6OE6YBoZu1f/Wkt+YYaka/9DObn7koRgjC72aggLDeHrmspUPxB1uqWoUYQvAfejOSkRoM1MAsQJt0Cn/f9tDjxwmdBnhWzh5gQnRtCEZmP/EJDcQOIwuiVkvZLdcrAjAVggC95L5o3g9Rgz0VpuPLTEA/Q30A8W4lJWF8c6aSJ8b7iYLZgOdIZJC+ozgN9C3Yc+5dte/RZgApf7bkN47pCF3IGv5bgSRartav87XYWPQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=niObUu38Vyv1kLrIKgUBPBZ+rIyad52a+OHGA0QJvf8=; b=ZJqpgoHkTKpBO2wS+M/HxiGXLFqBwYYD+rALW5AAY131zW7wexl7L6RcH/dKjPXFJ6dp3HjPG0RbUjHqmhPGuTOmIi9TtzfllyMi8T9i6kcwjlSUZR3e5Aere2r9Wli8pwHnynXbD/uCJsJaWso2JmAYR5LVArp8oIt1ZzRl2hQ= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by BY5PR10MB4388.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:212::24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4713.19; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:45:53 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4588:646c:e330:8bc0]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4588:646c:e330:8bc0%7]) with mapi id 15.20.4713.024; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:45:53 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#52007: 26.3; Doc of `define-globalized-minor-mode' and global(ized) minor modes Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#52007: 26.3; Doc of `define-globalized-minor-mode' and global(ized) minor modes Thread-Index: AdfeXz7OcZHuD8yNSvCGxAGAhpPXwQAnftDYAAANa8A= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:45:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83bl2erow3.fsf@gnu.org> <83o86dquyf.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83o86dquyf.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d9b9fe18-dd9b-4885-3ead-08d9ad16c398 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BY5PR10MB4388: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:4941; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(366004)(38070700005)(33656002)(316002)(6506007)(38100700002)(186003)(5660300002)(122000001)(76116006)(52536014)(86362001)(8676002)(55016002)(2906002)(508600001)(71200400001)(66556008)(66476007)(64756008)(26005)(66446008)(6916009)(66946007)(7696005)(44832011)(9686003)(4326008)(8936002)(81973001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?ozAf+VuGcQJzULeeY214V7RPc0LM4xahkeipX4LZEs5vWFa/XtEtTUKyCjqL?= =?us-ascii?Q?sFEVvT6mYKsDIkFlqYvRQz0sQZJNSA3+8zKXmr+l1C6/vF/Jt3bWZDJDbTB7?= =?us-ascii?Q?P+jdCPd4aNAA3kEJjjK8vpD2oQXGkuOXSuw7DfevXdbRrScXvyWCHu0678Ky?= =?us-ascii?Q?SvxzXHWMcfHGXp/1BCbJwgNR8od+OmPErXsyw7A1tKlWC/8L4YDFhqVmq2tP?= =?us-ascii?Q?YxIeWZLDaNSiLK7jgKLoBuCjCpzdHghDP1TBzqNvQhcGKQ6WIcJ8XXjcUSoK?= =?us-ascii?Q?1iNk6R1YRlg4y0JAESRHPNvf7yrClN1uK04rTkFa1PNArEpaK6dtvooVxHNi?= =?us-ascii?Q?C6zn3MrkVhuM2MAGi2HuHTp2zufwYDMDPZ5U59FUrpf+JHd4kh/Iu8ZE3Z1W?= =?us-ascii?Q?hb89sMOmsU5hbZEcyMeFaWz1+3TKP7uvmjws2uWc98kpV/0vkLK2mmRRxnZh?= =?us-ascii?Q?FOz7PzIScfHrRhevULh3/nMpyL9BBfpSjIXMduxrMZpgOEMF3ivHP9lqMhmy?= =?us-ascii?Q?hTLO+zzurPiPM2MjxT0mgEdrL7xIu0pmcBtpyXXs3fUv6qC4q3a78E34pwe5?= =?us-ascii?Q?TJY6TKdb6Opt9b2Wpf8XfO5zSUY/dF57Uad4aWplpOmhEBynTsLVTs+NvbAf?= =?us-ascii?Q?gd0OcEmfeS9AGHiwjhGsEtCZs5AhHc6fj4aZoJ1XewEzlNXkcLMmtWdvb9DR?= =?us-ascii?Q?XLCJwMQhkhqek2ov6xPmz4e0NcrHeNtow/oHOB1+iVDsCdnsTlUkfFgjnBK7?= =?us-ascii?Q?4vThqW7mIc48Ps3D3rDeqRKcXXGzE/lzwFaXmzpKmuRkEitIqjZ5esERbbwu?= =?us-ascii?Q?FErmr40ctNeyrrrRlWGe6L2iz4JNYc0N9FRa/INfrHt5Pf+644BXWDBbj2Gb?= =?us-ascii?Q?5aLIN6+NNV94p9xQ1CoSrhAG4tNEmNoVpSwiChhEKsxa+9uLwzbImAVyDnUR?= =?us-ascii?Q?l0g/qnj62267ngH1CfN4gSb9zNnPLjN2nMvRnCXFeP8hsj1kWBPKhzayMk6v?= =?us-ascii?Q?r8HhDjX7uJWd5GCYHOuYZBvHwL1ApcPnA6TLFhrMNuDXPR4s02s7k7wbSui0?= =?us-ascii?Q?s065UmFHT5nkwoOTn7Mw6Uff3lJ38xD63gn5yWOnUNPAWYWQ8i+dsG2Vu/07?= =?us-ascii?Q?p2cgcL7uY4bgeEheuW6CbJlKLsss6gnca+ITPMnOccFkOB7/Ay0vfpWSG3Fy?= =?us-ascii?Q?zs4T75NJz1da+4F0SSiMwv2Fkj0yMRfJspih+IUeDWpgT6cu3aW7SOuWax+K?= =?us-ascii?Q?dOY0pYLecuCJRHt49GEW4vjJXPZzaE4YBqwBUTSJbHgAQvTW0T9DcJMuUyy8?= =?us-ascii?Q?OTAZubtlneaxqD5ZNMzvWLJ9/0QKq9n2tQ8WgUnZ+YX0HeW7l+SdDiIiRE77?= =?us-ascii?Q?MzQGlnBsidaANfWD3WFhNxXX8+0SGEFdIv7MCS+eZVpFa2y6ZpiICr3AjJ56?= =?us-ascii?Q?4F/qAzM2Gm6n7jCJOElAISwFmBWwWwWBcT60eLn2VJ63vjkAV6vX6mI4iud+?= =?us-ascii?Q?b+8aHQ65aBgeNrcbU1nAlYnwec4ZMgxKd8X2/bElsvTQtwT7XANj9JbOFErZ?= =?us-ascii?Q?m7fhXn7IYzNP1xr55b8OtnLclBMqCdx+ARb0MBkavmITQNGlRckO6+OwPMhd?= =?us-ascii?Q?Sg=3D=3D?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d9b9fe18-dd9b-4885-3ead-08d9ad16c398 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Nov 2021 17:45:53.1209 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: YuBuz5BXZVDsiL7ztF7b+whVw7jW/O0sBUiQTjZmKS54h1RF740G1VxWJYhlv68pRMnaxS+jFyQ1c/ZeNu4eEQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR10MB4388 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10175 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=877 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2110150000 definitions=main-2111210110 X-Proofpoint-GUID: v7zXahvdOP-nSnZo7_BRXcMoqg2Caci1 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: v7zXahvdOP-nSnZo7_BRXcMoqg2Caci1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52007 Cc: "52007@debbugs.gnu.org" <52007@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > > > Toggle Foo mode in all buffers. > > > > > > > > It doesn't do that at all. Instead, it toggles > > > > `global-foo-mode'. > > > > > > No, it turns ON both foo-mode and global-foo-mode. > > > > You missed the point of the bug report. > > Toggling the global mode turns them both on (or off, > > depending on the current value of `global-foo-mode') > > in all buffers, yes. >=20 > No. It turns on foo-mode in all buffers, and it turns on > global-foo-mode globally -- it is nonsense to talk about "global mode > in a buffer", because global modes are, well, global. We agree about what it does, however you prefer to describe it. > > That's not what it means to toggle `foo-mode' > > everywhere. Doing that would flip the value that > > `foo-mode' (non-global mode) has in each buffer. >=20 > And it does. It does not. If `foo-mode' is on in buffer A, and the global mode is off, then toggling the global mode results in `foo-mode' being (still) on in buffer A. Toggling `foo-mode' in all buffers (which is what the erroneous doc string said) would turn it on where it is off and off where it is on. It would turn it off in buffer A. It does not do so; it doesn't toggle `foo-mode' in each buffer; instead, it turns the mode on everywhere or off everywhere, depending on the value of `global-foo-mode'. > > Glad this will be fixed in Emacs 28. (And no, I > > wasn't "looking at an old Emacs". I reported on > > the latest Emacs release, Emacs 27.2.) >=20 > Your report said 26.3. Ah, yes, you're right. Mea culpa. I can't use Emacs 27 in general (broken with my setup), and I forgot to switch to emacs -Q with Emacs 27.2 to file this particular bug. But as you've acknowledged, the bug exists in 27.2, the latest Emacs release. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 21 13:03:59 2021 Received: (at 52007) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2021 18:03:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45975 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1morC3-0002Rh-IG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 13:03:59 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36892) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1morC1-0002RU-O1 for 52007@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 13:03:57 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=58280 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1morBt-0006x0-Su; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 13:03:50 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=EbMJZd/1b/+Rd7gGBUZo0Tvc45RumR86PGBKTMO4SKs=; b=EeDf7kRBhxvM 0PmGpMbyJMKmcbDx1O0mUbRmeVC/9gpHIualPkpRDI9zOX63ry25MXI3jRhZRWLAhC2n1MjORu08y jEYHXDl1bL9UMD4U0bgvfGe3lr+Gbq5bF4gaPhpYfOldOduvDCzW4R80FOAfPPRWrwwZK8QvM/V2F 7gKvlEIe4c8Ku7tt+ayG6l0p5m1cTCtR8/ImB/03ye4mRJ/qZXgLhlNyQlWiWuWWct23XSkX0fx5Y aOuByyp+qDIemYfrE96ZO/uG4HIFtf79B4l32jf7BZryJi5tfnyESLt2e2Zhs+Qifd0EDTGoBw5Wf 0m5h/sFavhOJaIFkT/9pYA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4059 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1morBo-0007GD-Tz; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 13:03:46 -0500 Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2021 20:03:50 +0200 Message-Id: <83lf1hqtbt.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:45:53 +0000) Subject: Re: [External] : Re: bug#52007: 26.3; Doc of `define-globalized-minor-mode' and global(ized) minor modes References: <83bl2erow3.fsf@gnu.org> <83o86dquyf.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52007 Cc: 52007@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > CC: "52007@debbugs.gnu.org" <52007@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2021 17:45:53 +0000 > > > > That's not what it means to toggle `foo-mode' > > > everywhere. Doing that would flip the value that > > > `foo-mode' (non-global mode) has in each buffer. > > > > And it does. > > It does not. If `foo-mode' is on in buffer A, and > the global mode is off, then toggling the global mode > results in `foo-mode' being (still) on in buffer A. > > Toggling `foo-mode' in all buffers (which is what > the erroneous doc string said) would turn it on where > it is off and off where it is on. It would turn it > off in buffer A. It does not do so; it doesn't > toggle `foo-mode' in each buffer; instead, it turns > the mode on everywhere or off everywhere, depending > on the value of `global-foo-mode'. You are splitting hair. The doc string describes what happens when the mode is off everywhere. > But as you've acknowledged, the bug exists in 27.2, > the latest Emacs release. I didn't try this in Emacs 27, so I didn't acknowledge that. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 21 13:25:30 2021 Received: (at 52007) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Nov 2021 18:25:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45993 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1morWr-0002zF-Tr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 13:25:30 -0500 Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:25534) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1morWq-0002z4-0r for 52007@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 13:25:28 -0500 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246627.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 1ALEAhwx021623; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 18:25:26 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2021-07-09; bh=/fgYmz3+Q/cG0faiNyfEdKRHuDsjGgEnkRjGdaH7ISg=; b=mnPdQLw04a5L5vMV2lQKu8jTzyJ2J8LLd88tZZLDZFUzHBA2I89DXq8cRDnZnJW72Ol7 EVE2UJmm1i7hCizI5DLH4vBLiFhL49+t2ac0kjBxRZCmicv8Nt/uGTcBudwWQkn5VEre i+eRnL9GfPLoJFGR8FdfpcvgU4KvpGlB1p3hMTOd9hYig2STj7dRux3gcWfe/TMfed3z mlKYXRDl8fJv/QyDiDMZgvO7BD3xg7q/42VayJJ0jdAtZd8Ac9ji8XWYpJqCe2qUbwN2 M7qw4fw0qzvJFE8AE2ocAwsT3PSZ6mak3ZV5tBIQF/OqVeMkH3fdCVfiFskGuarEAwGB zw== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 3ceqm1vpu6-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 21 Nov 2021 18:25:26 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3020.oracle.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 1ALIGuv0037425; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 18:25:25 GMT Received: from nam11-co1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-co1nam11lp2174.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.56.174]) by aserp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3ceru2k96p-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 21 Nov 2021 18:25:25 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=iLxCljXoieMElbrMfcVUWmp+6LfWKaECTfrfUHVOZSELrpVS1kOHa/p8KkxQE3HRqxIxhmxmW9M370IzjL4enEw2DBbY0CI1xDX9SoqmU0Nvq91S13JksZ9dFz9R8Puiq+3gQvBrWvxsEJBWdAfOL81MGQKuS7mUbvrPK7LhuLMfSlnD40VYPadTHWGSKG6i4FxzO1mwFxBiTYAX4PFlRt1cOqa9h4Vpz2n3X+QkDtehoCn+XaLedu9nZOzaRt7iwFOnzhL5aPHgM3oFM0MC5jEBWy1uOG0qeeHXgFe9q8ZwcAezn9x3S6OQZeSyxQZYeLqHJ77kgcbj1CRlV7JGtg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=/fgYmz3+Q/cG0faiNyfEdKRHuDsjGgEnkRjGdaH7ISg=; b=AIRBOA3dRhl4isNcG1d6rhl4dDNUVHAekYBGCt1BqFlAHpTuOY1N2aEqPWrRzZ0e1ISehRu1Xu8Tb2J0dAu/df6PuFTPmc69yoP9DH+S21CTcj9xbD+jDLs95yDKJNEoVEFH1A70kvNEwiU0YkABI2ptZMgSCHsF9mOKIzV2M7YeQKWVy26e3B41A9k1Hyzbu5Kuhbp+bDbWDmZqTImjhCMyIqBowC/DpaHgbG/aDEL8WwNRrv++dP6ipp7dDsVzzH8LI0ZLrh9EZRnZR+muOt9GtSd9afreSMryvnjWIZzhiPSH7xSXJeN3z+vy+kW98jPgvrGiQLf+aZI0tsCp1g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=/fgYmz3+Q/cG0faiNyfEdKRHuDsjGgEnkRjGdaH7ISg=; b=N5+sC6calJcR7lqXkQwVyBQ94FFQigrbZt4Lx5SpvnDwdIvSsBEdr+UFW+pwsInfazY/FXWfZkJNrSbVZ07FJnxFY84rSyqYXbqS/3mMomjjYz9F2zBZw1a/gxWbwkC0yyvesF57xcU2oLK+59C5nRo1jDaFcVgtNW+SWPtj1SU= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by SJ0PR10MB4510.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:2d6::22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4713.19; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 18:25:23 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4588:646c:e330:8bc0]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4588:646c:e330:8bc0%7]) with mapi id 15.20.4713.024; Sun, 21 Nov 2021 18:25:23 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: RE: [External] : Re: bug#52007: 26.3; Doc of `define-globalized-minor-mode' and global(ized) minor modes Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: bug#52007: 26.3; Doc of `define-globalized-minor-mode' and global(ized) minor modes Thread-Index: AdfeXz7OcZHuD8yNSvCGxAGAhpPXwQAouhw0AACpbcA= Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2021 18:25:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83bl2erow3.fsf@gnu.org> <83o86dquyf.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf1hqtbt.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83lf1hqtbt.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f3eeb81c-e28a-49e7-c8c0-08d9ad1c4852 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB4510: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8273; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(366004)(2906002)(316002)(8676002)(33656002)(4326008)(5660300002)(6916009)(66446008)(52536014)(7696005)(26005)(6506007)(8936002)(66556008)(64756008)(9686003)(38100700002)(186003)(66946007)(71200400001)(55016002)(508600001)(38070700005)(44832011)(66476007)(86362001)(122000001)(76116006)(81973001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?sgRLQd86+C4orONOMEoCSwihDei8rMNPqiyvx3p1hpOqKxaIFuDlyi9XPj0M?= =?us-ascii?Q?oYjWstgB0nV+K9NkMVP2tJHiAvPO0G0XxGA6XXnGHJT7dVcpL8f3pswaiywE?= =?us-ascii?Q?qvH/rCyIhKDs6XtDAi/KYpRQhkUB++notBz44vC+z59ZIdDnkiDYEfdxPwuN?= =?us-ascii?Q?ENT2swxTeY6CfSxsUKown29ZNN9hVW5n/xFiBCGSBpAOj5Irkr7vqQ4hxeXW?= =?us-ascii?Q?410ryl7dgp0Q8hGxT3HFlGCDuJ2UrvGZV/oJe7cDrc6obQPckNAQFsijLpIj?= =?us-ascii?Q?cnF5FmTS2o2hGMHidMKFay+W4aJCng8BOiB87yrHskyMMT/CJH7mYoVEaKdi?= =?us-ascii?Q?IY44ZC6+nE1n1l8b7tVuJXlODOi9f+z1LWwh2ZZrw6doAbOCbrLQT22H5bF5?= =?us-ascii?Q?5AyAl+QSMwTgS+RM05TheCQod+EYlg2xUQEG+c54VF2I/8aXS1DMmY1wPpOk?= =?us-ascii?Q?CqBbBjL8rL+7zjMeoLeU/NmA8+dhv7HQVKDb8ACtn7Aimu4EYSvej3xx8xbJ?= =?us-ascii?Q?D2y7P7ZOEQdih0AbOQVblmxEHabSvQ0K04WE4TNooql/IAEnU1BhX40AfLR4?= =?us-ascii?Q?2pd0f5xz//uLjfb1k0wLsD9QVBA7pFhh0an4FeZC5loea7gaSLvKIbB9eSpj?= =?us-ascii?Q?XCSu3RuNT7zxGq2HYmq5rFYxjNkSRGqCrQvqH48dS2/LqZzKVnVEdZfbd4/e?= =?us-ascii?Q?p/Ot4O03lSqNgyv15brPjXPBzSwENvhByOFwCM82KipWKpFi1H/b3Wwx2vaN?= =?us-ascii?Q?jYwyX8K/mugHEPrp2TPRJRXCO2MhebGzJApnPpKOhgSdHRTLfPl9QaWOxAcl?= =?us-ascii?Q?6F8/9nW4xpSBqvXpbHIQ5z0RtAKSVU+UytCaN5CyfpBGbAFGSa01rD9z5lyx?= =?us-ascii?Q?4Nn8soVEKeY2Ruz9OZvsjJGfyiwnk5b4dDF6DH1KSMfES0TH294GtnDlpXCv?= =?us-ascii?Q?7k6nbvnyvdwDdjitkJ8GrHlYfLaJmi32OXb7XzY2Obv14S+1ujVD9HDh41+n?= =?us-ascii?Q?rZ8SmB8rXNg8vygv+RKrYDqrNOG92z5f9zBlsATS6052sPWXDj1W2ihcWxcL?= =?us-ascii?Q?+RCzX7ls2tB/QVgq+ONpbDjDwaaQvM+9Ei6a/9bm/jdia6X7BOrsIP9fCNwK?= =?us-ascii?Q?zjMd5ksHItxnTG/8KbQV0fFzbXXdVajp43k+PfuKFkwEesshKnQAg1BO/lRt?= =?us-ascii?Q?WaucWxPqAbdXHAKMCCaE+4JMAoNGyvJtleamdGdwYh4Yafr3qpKgVa9HKHpU?= =?us-ascii?Q?43MOdOEWdzBAEdu1rd09czzmgEGZuSe6uyLeNYkL1hEp/ZLjF5WDwwe9HPWt?= =?us-ascii?Q?lFSx0nVod+mdFOeNbckdRYyGLiKtxI44bgpy+xpaOlsAneMt9ZCNmHTLtchn?= =?us-ascii?Q?4jPokdcF34Ha1mjQOPf0wTY8eG+6GmrB8CR1rVlEk7yKtarty9pWXXZQjmB3?= =?us-ascii?Q?Ox8+Bng1MJSi4SiHsJq2d4pXBkAC9eetOlSvseOyIp9XJDYSsJyJ9QDQFOEB?= =?us-ascii?Q?p9gokwv6qQtkpIJ3lwVOO7YDzlZe+XCVQiqsALwn3Zu12nR5IrZH4mSgYZse?= =?us-ascii?Q?gDRhLxn0RG+qxF0ONowq3613FkO9Z0f2dN7V5zFstWcbiPyOkQfuL3PpSBP/?= =?us-ascii?Q?4Q=3D=3D?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f3eeb81c-e28a-49e7-c8c0-08d9ad1c4852 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Nov 2021 18:25:23.2943 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: klX8oe78FAaPufm5dDTfTo/+3fy50fAxc+QP3FY0KO7lKwFsRVP4fnFMqco664aVwa1ozKBecAew8k7VA4tung== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SJ0PR10MB4510 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10175 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=865 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2110150000 definitions=main-2111210114 X-Proofpoint-GUID: 61RAj67vXUF2AIYZhvkqV8LnXAZ-SKnV X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 61RAj67vXUF2AIYZhvkqV8LnXAZ-SKnV X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 52007 Cc: "52007@debbugs.gnu.org" <52007@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > > > That's not what it means to toggle `foo-mode' > > > > everywhere. Doing that would flip the value that > > > > `foo-mode' (non-global mode) has in each buffer. > > > > > > And it does. > > > > It does not. If `foo-mode' is on in buffer A, and > > the global mode is off, then toggling the global mode > > results in `foo-mode' being (still) on in buffer A. > > > > Toggling `foo-mode' in all buffers (which is what > > the erroneous doc string said) would turn it on where > > it is off and off where it is on. It would turn it > > off in buffer A. It does not do so; it doesn't > > toggle `foo-mode' in each buffer; instead, it turns > > the mode on everywhere or off everywhere, depending > > on the value of `global-foo-mode'. >=20 > You are splitting hair. The doc string describes what happens when > the mode is off everywhere. Not at all splitting hairs. The doc string said that the NON-global mode gets toggled in each buffer, and it does not - not at all. > > But as you've acknowledged, the bug exists in 27.2, > > the latest Emacs release. >=20 > I didn't try this in Emacs 27, so I didn't acknowledge that. I thought you said that the erroneous doc I reported is getting fixed for Emacs 28. From unknown Wed Jun 18 23:04:42 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2021 12:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator