GNU bug report logs - #5187
23.1.90; default fonts have gotten worse in the last month

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Message #5 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Joseph Brenner <doom <at> kzsu.stanford.edu>
To: emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org
Subject: 23.1.90; default fonts have gotten worse in the last month
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:09:02 -0800

Recently, emacs seemed to have been using some nicer looking
fonts by default, for example in the cvs build as of nov 18, 2009:

  http://obsidianrook.com/data/emacs/default_font_111809_emacs_build.jpg

The 23.1.90 pretest and the latest cvs build (dec 11, 2009) have
much weaker default fonts:

  http://obsidianrook.com/data/emacs/emacs-23.1.90-fonts.jpg
  http://obsidianrook.com/data/emacs/default_font_121109_emacs_build.jpg


In GNU Emacs 23.1.90.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.16.1)
 of 2009-12-11 on fineline
Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.10600000
configured using `configure  '--prefix' '/usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109''

Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: nil
  value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
  value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
  value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
  value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
  value of $LC_TIME: nil
  value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
  value of $XMODIFIERS: nil
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
  default enable-multibyte-characters: t

Major mode: Shell

Minor modes in effect:
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  display-time-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  global-auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent input:
C-n C-n M-f C-f n o SPC l o n g e r SPC w o r k s ,
SPC <backspace> <backspace> SPC i n SPC t h e SPC M-d
M-d M-d M-d C-d M-f M-f M-f SPC o f C-f C-d C-e <backspace>
<backspace> SPC ( t h o u g h SPC i t SPC w a s SPC
d e f i n i t e l y SPC w o r k i n g SPC w i t h SPC
a SPC <backspace> <backspace> <backspace> <backspace>
<backspace> <backspace> <backspace> a s SPC o f SPC
n o v SPC 1 8 . SPC 2 0 0 9 ) : C-a C-n C-x C-s C-n
C-p C-p M-f M-f C-a C-n C-x C-s C-n C-p C-p C-l C-e
<backspace> . SPC SPC S t a r t i n g SPC w t h i <backspace>
<backspace> <backspace> i t h SPC - - d e b u g - i
n i t , SPC i t SPC r e p o r t s : C-a C-n C-x C-s
C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-l C-n C-n C-n
C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-l C-SPC C-n C-w
C-x C-o C-x C-s C-o C-x C-s C-n M-x m e a <backspace>
<backspace> <backspace> e m a v s <backspace> <backspace>
c s SPC b e r SPC <backspace> <backspace> <backspace>
b e r s SPC M-b C-d v e <backspace> <C-tab> C-e <tab>
<return> C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-n C-l C-n C-v
C-v C-v C-v C-v C-v C-v <escape> > C-c C-c y e s <return>
C-e <return> M-x r e p o r t SPC e m SPC b SPC <re
turn>

Recent messages:
Mark set
Saving file /home/doom/Mail/drafts/*message*-20091211-194721...
Wrote /home/doom/Mail/drafts/*message*-20091211-194721
Saving file /home/doom/Mail/drafts/*message*-20091211-194721...
Wrote /home/doom/Mail/drafts/*message*-20091211-194721
GNU Emacs 23.1.90.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.16.1) of 2009-12-11 on fineline
Mark set
Sending...
Sending via mail...
Sending...done

Load-path shadows:
/home/doom/End/Cave/DesktopAutosave/lib/emacs/desktop-recover-setup hides /home/doom/lib/emacs/Dots/desktop-recover-setup
/home/doom/End/Cave/DiredExternalApps/lib/emacs/image-dired hides /home/doom/lib/emacs/image-dired
/home/doom/End/Cave/DiredExternalApps/lib/emacs/dired-external-apps hides /home/doom/lib/emacs/dired-external-apps
/home/doom/lib/emacs/Dots/setup-colors-dark hides /home/doom/lib/emacs/setup-colors-dark
/home/doom/lib/emacs/Dots/strokes hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/strokes
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/speedbar/speedbar hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/speedbar
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/speedbar/sb-image hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/sb-image
/home/doom/End/Cave/DiredExternalApps/lib/emacs/image-dired hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/image-dired
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/common/ezimage hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/ezimage
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/speedbar/dframe hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/dframe
/home/doom/End/Cave/DesktopAutosave/lib/emacs/desktop hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/desktop
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-xface hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-xface
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-folder hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-folder
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-comp hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-comp
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-utils hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-utils
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-thread hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-thread
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-speed hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-speed
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-show hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-show
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-seq hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-seq
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-search hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-search
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-print hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-print
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-mime hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-mime
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-limit hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-limit
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-letter hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-letter
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-tool-bar hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-tool-bar
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-inc hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-inc
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-junk hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-junk
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-funcs hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-funcs
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-scan hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-scan
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-alias hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-alias
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-e hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-e
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-buffers hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-buffers
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-loaddefs hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-loaddefs
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-gnus hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-gnus
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-compat hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-compat
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-acros hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-acros
/usr/local/emacs/cvs-032909/share/emacs/23.0.91/lisp/mh-e/mh-identity hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/mh-e/mh-identity
/home/doom/lib/emacs/Dots/gnus-setup hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/gnus/gnus-setup
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/eieio/eieio-base hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/emacs-lisp/eieio-base
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/eieio/eieio-speedbar hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/emacs-lisp/eieio-speedbar
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/eieio/eieio-opt hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/emacs-lisp/eieio-opt
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/eieio/eieio-comp hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/emacs-lisp/eieio-comp
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/eieio/eieio hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/emacs-lisp/eieio
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/eieio/eieio-datadebug hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/emacs-lisp/eieio-datadebug
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/eieio/chart hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/emacs-lisp/chart
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/eieio/eieio-custom hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/emacs-lisp/eieio-custom
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/srecode/srecode hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/cedet/srecode
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/common/cedet-files hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/cedet/cedet-files
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/common/cedet-cscope hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/cedet/cedet-cscope
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/semantic/semantic hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/cedet/semantic
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/common/pulse hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/cedet/pulse
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/common/mode-local hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/cedet/mode-local
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/common/inversion hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/cedet/inversion
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/ede/ede hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/cedet/ede
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/common/data-debug hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/cedet/data-debug
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/common/cedet hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/cedet/cedet
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/common/cedet-idutils hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/cedet/cedet-idutils
/usr/local/emacs/cedet-1.0pre6/common/cedet-global hides /usr/local/emacs/cvs-121109/share/emacs/23.1.90/lisp/cedet/cedet-global

Features:
(gnus-msg gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 epg-config gnus-sum nnoo gnus-group
gnus-undo nnmail mail-source format-spec gnus-start gnus-spec gnus-int
gnus-range gnus-win gnus gnus-ems sort filecache executable newcomment
eieio-opt help-mode view shadow mail-extr message ecomplete rfc822
nnheader gmm-utils mailheader canlock sha1 hex-util hashcash mail-utils
warnings emacsbug doom-fineline ansi-color registers-defined strokes
macroman doom-filters find_and_replace doom-mh mh-comp sendmail mh-scan
mh-gnus mml mml-sec mm-view smime password-cache dig mm-decode mm-bodies
mm-encode mailcap mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums qp
mm-util mail-prsvr gnus-util netrc time-date mh-e mh-compat mailabbrev
mh-acros mh-buffers mh-loaddefs mhe-setup fugly-keystroke-macros
dired-imagery-doomery-keystroke-macros image-dired thinknow picture
doomfile doomfiles-hacking-setup caving-setup w3m-load mmm-auto mmm-vars
mmm-compat generic-x mmm-setup html-setup senator which-func
semantic-imenu semantic-sb imenu semantic-mru-bookmark semanticdb-mode
semantic-idle ede-simple cedet-files ede-linux ede-emacs ede-cpp-root
cedet cedet-contrib-load contrib-loaddefs cogre-load cogre-loaddefs
speedbar-load speedbar-loaddefs ede-load ede-loaddefs ede-speedbar
ede-files ede eieio-speedbar semantic-ia-sb semantic-analyze
semantic-scope semantic-analyze-fcn semantic-sort semanticdb-el
semanticdb-search semantic-find semanticdb semantic-ctxt semantic-format
semantic-util-modes semantic-util semantic semantic-lex semantic-tag
working fame speedbar sb-image ezimage dframe assoc eieio-custom
ede-source eieio-base srecode-load srecode srecode-loaddefs
semantic-load semantic-fw semantic-loaddefs mode-local eieio-load
eieio-loaddefs cedet-load cedet-compat cedet-loaddefs eieio inversion
apache-dev sgml-mode sepia edmacro kmacro sepia-cpan sepia-ido ido
sepia-tree tree-widget wid-edit w3m-ccl ccl w3m-favicon w3m-image
w3m-proc w3m-util gud easy-mmode cperl-mode perlnow easymenu template
perlnow-wrapper perl-setup elisp-hacking-setup doom-print printer-setup
shell-setup perlups derived byte-opt bytecomp byte-compile jka-compr
find-func timeclock-x timeclock timeclock-setup junk-o-doom text-setup
live-dangerously datestamps shell comint ring dired-external-apps
dired-setup info-to-registers basic-keymap-changes paracide redroot
simple-color-change setup-colors-dark dired-x dired-aux dired regexp-opt
paren uniquify advice help-fns advice-preload server time emacs-setup cl
cl-19 load-path-setup tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel
x-win x-dnd font-setting tool-bar dnd fontset image fringe lisp-mode
register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mldrag mouse
jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian
utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean
japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian
cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev
loaddefs button minibuffer faces cus-face text-properties overlay md5
base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable
backquote make-network-process dbusbind system-font-setting
font-render-setting gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs)

Message #10 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Jan Djärv <jan.h.d <at> swipnet.se>
To: Joseph Brenner <doom <at> kzsu.stanford.edu>, 5187 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#5187: 23.1.90; default fonts have gotten worse in the last
 month
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 14:17:22 +0100

Joseph Brenner skrev:
> Recently, emacs seemed to have been using some nicer looking
> fonts by default, for example in the cvs build as of nov 18, 2009:
> 
>   http://obsidianrook.com/data/emacs/default_font_111809_emacs_build.jpg
> 
> The 23.1.90 pretest and the latest cvs build (dec 11, 2009) have
> much weaker default fonts:
> 
>   http://obsidianrook.com/data/emacs/emacs-23.1.90-fonts.jpg
>   http://obsidianrook.com/data/emacs/default_font_121109_emacs_build.jpg
> 

What environment are you using (KDE, Gnome, Xfce, other)?
Does other Gnome applications have fonts as your Emacs had in nov 18?
What does
% xrdb -query|grep Xft
give?

Does
% emacs -fn 'Monospace-10:hintstyle=3'
give the results you want?

	Jan D.

Message #20 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Joe Brenner <doom <at> kzsu.stanford.edu>
To: Jan Djärv <jan.h.d <at> swipnet.se>
Cc: 5187 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#5187: 23.1.90; default fonts have gotten worse in the last month
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:20:31 -0800

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan_Dj=E4rv?= <jan.h.d <at> swipnet.se> wrote:
> Joseph Brenner skrev:
> > Recently, emacs seemed to have been using some nicer looking
> > fonts by default, for example in the cvs build as of nov 18, 2009:
> >
> >   http://obsidianrook.com/data/emacs/default_font_111809_emacs_build.jpg
> >
> > The 23.1.90 pretest and the latest cvs build (dec 11, 2009) have
> > much weaker default fonts:
> >
> >   http://obsidianrook.com/data/emacs/emacs-23.1.90-fonts.jpg
> >   http://obsidianrook.com/data/emacs/default_font_121109_emacs_build.jpg

> What environment are you using (KDE, Gnome, Xfce, other)?

I'm using the icewm window manager on what is technically a "kubuntu"
installation (jaunty).

> Does other Gnome applications have fonts as your Emacs had in nov 18?

I should explain that I'm comparing different builds on the same machine
at the same time -- Gnome/KDE/etc are identical in both cases.

> What does
> % xrdb -query|grep Xft
> give?

Nothing.

Withouth the grep filter:

xrdb -query
*customization:	-color

> Does
> % emacs -fn 'Monospace-10:hintstyle=3'
> give the results you want?

No, I don't see any change with that.

But actually, I think I should apologize for giving you an unclear bug
report.  I was complaining about the new fonts not being "as nice",
but now that I look at it more closely, really the only difference is
the fonts with the latest emacs are smaller by default.  In this screen
shot, the emacs on the right looks the same as the one in the upper left,
but it's the same version as the ones on the lower left, I've just
manually scaled up the font a notch with "C-x C-+":

  http://obsidianrook.com/data/emacs/emacs-23.1.90-default-font-size.jpg

So the "bug" here is that the default font size for 23.1.90 is
smaller than for 23.1.50.

Message #30 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Jan Djärv <jan.h.d <at> swipnet.se>
To: Joe Brenner <doom <at> kzsu.stanford.edu>
Cc: 5187 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org,
        5187-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#5187: 23.1.90; default fonts have gotten worse in the last
 month
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:40:20 +0100

Joe Brenner skrev:

> But actually, I think I should apologize for giving you an unclear bug
> report.  I was complaining about the new fonts not being "as nice",
> but now that I look at it more closely, really the only difference is
> the fonts with the latest emacs are smaller by default.  In this screen
> shot, the emacs on the right looks the same as the one in the upper left,
> but it's the same version as the ones on the lower left, I've just
> manually scaled up the font a notch with "C-x C-+":
> 
>   http://obsidianrook.com/data/emacs/emacs-23.1.90-default-font-size.jpg
> 
> So the "bug" here is that the default font size for 23.1.90 is
> smaller than for 23.1.50.

Ah, then it is just the case of differing DPI:s.  Emacs now uses the DPI set 
by the system as indicated by xsettings 
(http://standards.freedesktop.org/xsettings-spec/xsettings-spec-0.5.html).

We do that so Emacs looks like other applications for the same font.
Note that the text in the menus are the same in both your cases (large and 
small Emacs font).  This is because Gtk uses the system DPI setting for both 
your Emacses.

If you wan't the old size, either customize Emacs with that font (I guess 
monospace-11, but you have to try) or adjust the systems notion of DPI (in 
system settings, appearence somewhere).  Note if you do the latter, the font 
size in the menu will change.

So there is no bug here.  Well, the bug can be said to be that the older Emacs 
picked the larger font.

	Jan D.

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