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"bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" From: irenezerafa Subject: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="b1_F3kpT6QyrXsiQk4z3xevuznRskttEP2zdspOHwDUI" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.43.19; envelope-from=irenezerafa@protonmail.com; helo=mail-4319.protonmail.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) 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with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mm4Hp-0005qf-6j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Nov 2021 20:26:25 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:53062) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mm4Hn-0005qP-6w for 51819@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Nov 2021 20:26:24 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=gPgdUNZhZxZWh5ghFePmvFJPGH3r/E5w0iq3OefBNmE=; b=qhvuMY4Ru3Oo3P1BI6/v1OzW7N 2kXxkxO8enp2ydd/aXOO5UAMXOh4/jk4/yVos0crFOSJohwr7Zzn/eIex6jz0o7NuRGW91K5QmkHc EsCugiQhCf2O5wmPrCvWPlc2X/mPwZQX4cUWmQL/3WQqsweaK8dZczd85D1ZUjlCeNzY=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mm4He-0005t3-NZ; Sun, 14 Nov 2021 02:26:17 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: irenezerafa Subject: Re: bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode References: X-Now-Playing: Anna B Savage's _A Common Turn_: "Baby Grand" Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 02:26:12 +0100 In-Reply-To: (irenezerafa@protonmail.com's message of "Sat, 13 Nov 2021 22:57:53 +0000") Message-ID: <87k0hbfryj.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: irenezerafa writes: > I am installing Company Mode so I can use auto completion. Let me > show you how beautiful that is using the emacs way. For most people, > they do "M-x list-packages" and search for "company". They [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51819 Cc: 51819@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) irenezerafa writes: > I am installing Company Mode so I can use auto completion. Let me > show you how beautiful that is using the emacs way. For most people, > they do "M-x list-packages" and search for "company". They get about > 70 matches for "company-mode" which add compatibility for other modes. I think most people are able to figure out that they should add the package called "company" if they want to install Company. (It's conveniently listed first among the packages that are Company-related.) So I don't see anything to do here, and I'm closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 13 20:26:36 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Nov 2021 01:26:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48552 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mm4I0-0005rJ-MU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Nov 2021 20:26:36 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:53076) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mm4Hz-0005r5-Ny for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Nov 2021 20:26:36 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=xb8SmLn+AKfhiAh+0BPB6vvEra/Vq5GZy8A3Y+vvbgQ=; b=rcvCQ+Krwu2K0bJF04IzDY+xUV j5MaNlaGiWZUBjWdB/SeTb7WEHSyu7b0Ft04azQEWPFN+Stf3o1pR1HNHsyew1T9jW9WMC+F8OGJy mvJ0iBiGpXbdR9edQUAZDWRqqYOSYUF/ojJSga+2OU5S69iuWmx3iF9/PFcA2xrvMOAk=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mm4Hr-0005tE-TZ for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Nov 2021 02:26:30 +0100 Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 02:26:27 +0100 Message-Id: <87ilwvfry4.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #51819 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 51819 notabug close 51819 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 51819 notabug close 51819 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 14 23:53:22 2021 Received: (at 51819) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Nov 2021 04:53:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52177 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mmTze-0005jG-6Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Nov 2021 23:53:22 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40208) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mmTzc-0005j3-Nz for 51819@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Nov 2021 23:53:21 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=49054 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mmTzW-0008DH-Eb; Sun, 14 Nov 2021 23:53:14 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=mLZU23HrlS3jxb0Cruma//fh+cz9bJ/SEIJJV5ZEjkQ=; b=ZDtLCSSVOYcY Q0+MnIQqAJWs6QDEnBHE8prnf9vWhQa5jmkndGEzbistgDYj9wy8Q4gnVxKQxZHFooBUHQuLBKKqp fggKSXbuOcAAEgsosmJNMxEQxmc6CGIoRr5a1bQRYJGX5aNoSs9adSMqXC6sEJU8GB1K1CLQ5m7fR CKRrpHzLaoRlhkvaTnSUZU4p5Wcwh37fgUOSa91HNyJAaPSKYUYTJswS6RIyT2ZtmMR0M6Z3ZlrMy j8gMJCXL4y6Mb94KqAyd+b/hPDSJUg7dYOd+9ZRl4d0MYq3L4Xrr7EOdRiXyfA3Ou9XllKliClZ0A C1kcOjurx2jo1oEg/GJjmg==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mmTzW-0004gz-AW; Sun, 14 Nov 2021 23:53:14 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87k0hbfryj.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sun, 14 Nov 2021 02:26:12 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode References: <87k0hbfryj.fsf@gnus.org> Message-Id: Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 23:53:14 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51819 Cc: 51819@debbugs.gnu.org, irenezerafa@protonmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > I am installing Company Mode so I can use auto completion. Let me > > show you how beautiful that is using the emacs way. For most people, > > they do "M-x list-packages" and search for "company". They get about > > 70 matches for "company-mode" which add compatibility for other modes. > I think most people are able to figure out that they should add the > package called "company" if they want to install Company. Why do people use the term "Company Mode", if its name is simply "Company"? I get the impression the former is a misnomer. Is it a misnomer? If it is a misnomer, do we say anything that encourages it? We could change what we say, so as to avoid promoting the term "Company mode". Maybe we should write it as "Comp-any" to make the meaning clear. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Nov 15 01:51:25 2021 Received: (at 51819) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Nov 2021 06:51:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52414 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mmVps-0007HQ-Kv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 01:51:24 -0500 Received: from mail-ua1-f47.google.com ([209.85.222.47]:34789) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mmVpq-0007HC-Sf for 51819@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Nov 2021 01:51:23 -0500 Received: by mail-ua1-f47.google.com with SMTP id n6so16166071uak.1 for <51819@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 14 Nov 2021 22:51:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=oasl7gZoZmKnAEag9aCPYJcxij3wmep2Y6mBUiDv7ZQ=; b=PwLLQNxu/EWjIvkdeuBR+FW805qqSe2mHyPA8bOE9H5Fc/iZwONDidfrGawTVJpqfb 8c9lT7+f9KanL52pi7D0tIFxoavS5QKXK1w2RybMRGgXEb4ScKxIG1s0/Vnd/fXSzsd7 HyJni3P7HALC4NFRiNEqjU2LK5UNQhN1AoqlXEn9Ogke54OFaVIm5ZOQzI8L2dnktjv6 u8ULP6cWB2DyVxtYoWU79J1IZliM1pIPfn67cXaER6n8t3B+CgB3iAEXFLGXVtDz7OTu Cmpw1eqeOzS9VzfixL/pTNGX7BMVyh5oYvBHFBwlsHazxxuXnyy5zRMNN7xiOkUpz1xt 1Ftg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=oasl7gZoZmKnAEag9aCPYJcxij3wmep2Y6mBUiDv7ZQ=; b=lT0W4sRPH92pNbmWqzzUQghogvoWs1uNfHuaILogbyB+Ihffltnb16dkM0zo4OlhTI gryRfta+8Q4c9NVXJdl4HG76xzuO5DvJ5cudfyJDFtUpoqvMJaEofcrifPUhcSKtSQFd wlM696Vqy2Pl5EobCibXKZ5TFZMzAZA758VoXeziQumeQywKoX9u7qBAWefsi4Fd4CQu YgH4xIOTcdgSiE+GflXrveABc1eg0hnEZxWzEpzJfQ60/eA7gVq9xKAu4LtamWxiXbMT j/neL0h9aqOtAUSE4s7FTeBF4z6PajwwfFS2gh2fz9v69sTHthq5KpSNMPpHj/s+cdeY hMvA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530WQZWUzqDGKxbm0uEfl4P1qa1tLMQMxAu1vZGGMkC2/t6GBDeT BLjDusrWr1UgZAn4Vj/NxmiIBXjVW2U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzxy5EENFS2aILje8k/s8ZSpU9weizROHtlbvhFd163Jpd31t9v6wMMbmCXUgQx4SpzcE5Y4w== X-Received: by 2002:ab0:3c9f:: with SMTP id a31mr56118207uax.134.1636959077045; Sun, 14 Nov 2021 22:51:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from Carloss-MacBook-Pro.local ([186.136.138.53]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o128sm8857258vsc.7.2021.11.14.22.51.15 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 14 Nov 2021 22:51:16 -0800 (PST) From: Carlos Pita To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode References: <87k0hbfryj.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 03:51:14 -0300 In-Reply-To: <87k0hbfryj.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 14 Nov 2021 02:26:12 +0100") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51819 Cc: 51819@debbugs.gnu.org, irenezerafa X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > irenezerafa writes: > >> I am installing Company Mode so I can use auto completion. Let me >> show you how beautiful that is using the emacs way. For most people, >> they do "M-x list-packages" and search for "company". They get about >> 70 matches for "company-mode" which add compatibility for other modes. > > I think most people are able to figure out that they should add the > package called "company" if they want to install Company. (It's > conveniently listed first among the packages that are Company-related.) Moreover, there is little gain in using company-specific extensions these days. Most completing-read frameworks offer completion-at-point compatibility, which inherits all the goodies from completing-read. And if you prefer an in-place popup install corfu which shows a child frame with zero extra config. Even company is moving more and more towards its capf backend. Maybe some extensions still require or greatly benefit from some company-specific protocol, but this is not the norm nowadays. I'm using a combo of fido-mode + corfu which, if I wanted, could be extended with consult, embark, marginalia, orderless, etc. I prefer to keep it small, but the beauty of the new "completion stack" is that the building blocks follow standard emacs protocols and are intercompatible (so it's completely fine to use any of them with icomplete/fido). This is all the configuration I need to get a "modern" completion experience: (setq completion-styles '(flex basic)) (icomplete-vertical-mode +1) (fido-mode +1) (corfu-global-mode +1) The only external dependency is the minimal, high-quality corfu extension. I understand the OP's frustration though, because this simplicity is not a given but the result of an exhausting process of research and refinement, there are a lot of options and (ill-)advice usually comes in the form of installing yet another extension. One has to learn many things that would be better not to know. One complaint I have is that icomplete doesn't offer a builtin completion-at-point mode. Strictly, it offers one but it's rather broken (see my report #51575). I believe it would be easy to channel completion-at-point to the minibuffer as other extensions more or less trivially do, although this is not compatible with LSP servers. OTOH an at-point popup is likely harder to implement and both overlays and child frames have their own drawbacks (again, see #51575). In any case, a builtin solution is not scifi at this point and, since the community is already converging around core protocols, I see this as an opportunity to greatly simplify the completion story. Best regards, Carlos From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 16 14:12:35 2021 Received: (at 51819) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Nov 2021 19:12:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59239 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn3sg-0000lO-Od for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 14:12:34 -0500 Received: from mail-40135.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.135]:48389) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn3se-0000kr-Ow for 51819@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 14:12:33 -0500 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 19:12:23 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail; t=1637089946; bh=c2CN2GDMdVjxo6CJIOyAXm+zSk6Xo0yOeX8tC12oOaM=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=sRVjsLK3UWCvq4SJlWcph9zMRcT4saaxDgzkcth/k6v1ZtiwXCSGubNSH688DBqG1 BQYib+ADaCoELj50fonRzvktAeNVrOuPEc4dcbFJtUc4xeKc++yK880xzspRIjU+R8 aEve9ELbn0qR0u7h9CzY7NbSt+4Ywk9nMNAgOqhU= To: rms@gnu.org From: irenezerafa Subject: bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <87k0hbfryj.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51819 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 51819@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: irenezerafa Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Me= ssage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Monday, November 15th, 2021 at 4:53 AM, Richard Stallman w= rote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > > I am installing Company Mode so I can use auto completion. Let me > > > show you how beautiful that is using the emacs way. For most people, > > > they do "M-x list-packages" and search for "company". They get about > > > 70 matches for "company-mode" which add compatibility for other modes= . > > I think most people are able to figure out that they should add the > > package called "company" if they want to install Company. > > Why do people use the term "Company Mode", if its name is simply > "Company"? I get the impression the former is a misnomer. Is it a > misnomer? > If it is a misnomer, do we say anything that encourages it? We could > change what we say, so as to avoid promoting the term "Company mode". > Maybe we should write it as "Comp-any" to make the meaning clear. The main problem is not company-mode in itself, but the fact that one has to install the related functionality for each language one is using. Rather, company-mode should recognise the language if needed and act accordingly. This makes company-mode a very odd implementation. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 16 14:23:04 2021 Received: (at 51819) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Nov 2021 19:23:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59267 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn42q-0001Fd-E7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 14:23:04 -0500 Received: from mail-40138.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.138]:49434) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn42k-0001Ea-KY for 51819@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 14:23:02 -0500 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 19:22:51 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail; t=1637090571; bh=B3RZa+8fVCAO4qNsRj6Db/NtCW4b+HCKYxwgvtBsw6Y=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=mdmJL9/MDMTvVrYlKtNLUxPPOACVslm+GVuXsMkmbd/cfUjEKWcw2M3ekE5upySEW wi536q49jyMFq7JC5TakzguqTeIuRXTW23veie0GyTf/s4L/hf2tjP7wfRh5a7zGnd wgGII3jOgG5FobaXLhYBtypIHsjoTfuaQab79qZ0= To: Carlos Pita From: irenezerafa Subject: bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <87k0hbfryj.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51819 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 51819@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: irenezerafa Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Me= ssage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Monday, November 15th, 2021 at 6:51 AM, Carlos Pita wrote: > Lars Ingebrigtsen larsi@gnus.org writes: > > > irenezerafa irenezerafa@protonmail.com writes: > > > > > I am installing Company Mode so I can use auto completion. Let me > > > > > > show you how beautiful that is using the emacs way. For most people, > > > > > > they do "M-x list-packages" and search for "company". They get about > > > > > > 70 matches for "company-mode" which add compatibility for other modes= . > > > > I think most people are able to figure out that they should add the > > > > package called "company" if they want to install Company. (It's > > > > conveniently listed first among the packages that are Company-related.) > > Moreover, there is little gain in using company-specific extensions > > these days. Most completing-read frameworks offer completion-at-point > > compatibility, which inherits all the goodies from completing-read. And > > if you prefer an in-place popup install corfu which shows a child frame > > with zero extra config. Even company is moving more and more towards its > > capf backend. Maybe some extensions still require or greatly benefit > > from some company-specific protocol, but this is not the norm nowadays. > > I'm using a combo of fido-mode + corfu which, if I wanted, could be > > extended with consult, embark, marginalia, orderless, etc. I prefer to > > keep it small, but the beauty of the new "completion stack" is that the > > building blocks follow standard emacs protocols and are intercompatible > > (so it's completely fine to use any of them with icomplete/fido). This > > is all the configuration I need to get a "modern" completion experience: > > (setq completion-styles '(flex basic)) > > (icomplete-vertical-mode +1) > > (fido-mode +1) > > (corfu-global-mode +1) > > The only external dependency is the minimal, high-quality corfu > > extension. > > I understand the OP's frustration though, because this simplicity is not > a given but the result of an exhausting process of research and > refinement, there are a lot of options and (ill-)advice usually comes in > the form of installing yet another extension. One has to learn many > things that would be better not to know. I am pleased to see you understand my point, because the development genius= es can't. > One complaint I have is that icomplete doesn't offer a builtin > completion-at-point mode. Strictly, it offers one but it's rather broken > (see my report #51575). I believe it would be easy to channel > completion-at-point to the minibuffer as other extensions more or less > trivially do, although this is not compatible with LSP servers. OTOH an > at-point popup is likely harder to implement and both overlays and child > frames have their own drawbacks (again, see #51575). In any case, a > builtin solution is not scifi at this point and, since the community is > already converging around core protocols, I see this as an opportunity > to greatly simplify the completion story. > > Best regards, > > Carlos From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 16 15:07:50 2021 Received: (at 51819) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Nov 2021 20:07:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59286 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn4kA-0003FN-0e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 15:07:50 -0500 Received: from mail-vk1-f174.google.com ([209.85.221.174]:37653) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn4k5-0003F4-ID for 51819@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 15:07:48 -0500 Received: by mail-vk1-f174.google.com with SMTP id e64so231183vke.4 for <51819@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 12:07:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=XsIl+7RjCc0S48EtUScK/C9dvZrE1fo1EXopjdYyf9Y=; b=TjvO6P6O/B9YuyCtr1stOvLLnkeO+Yh/Xl6gg8TVwosG6WpKbRI4NgltCgbM7osbFI i9AugkLGxRGV8lH/iQ46TnBBlNwT5/QK8SMSjjGOnRPHPjsSokdKgWCbb2wdueGQ1MmX ONGPSE8sMvrSc72KFeUrCvos+i8MHOgfwGfKsWkpnV9IwpcXq19YRpeC4lDU5NNXYhta WYlnUmkrBOYWpCv84MjelDlYy1cgRQYGS0VJBR7v/83VIZhfMwUJkJglETIOrhwcWfjs 10FyyujG379kTPigRfKfp+208EzarAsFFDiw7FdcRyS6zNYMJ3KfgCKgJONi+rIplXp+ haeA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=XsIl+7RjCc0S48EtUScK/C9dvZrE1fo1EXopjdYyf9Y=; b=EVUFZOKQqWmeojsnNqlHeQrHTWGi5wPr315yTdGWTI8EHjBYSn896rekLQQxkr/Co1 u+9n7W2zz2DTQsaHpVi0VYXp2ZHuzwCF83E3ELMVI71dcKOvyQCzSbg3esqqSIczU4LB vswix5gVMceiVHNTSCVLu7uyDH/ZV7YBq+YesoTHvM+rl51zU/I0VIGYi7Wehh16+E13 NDnkXs3pr0NusdeAi8hHiTBMVdGJMXtgrmT3V2cYnemL8AsKv0hREn0+6EboBrT10AlK C0mNFCz9KovvKoGQ+el6uTu7fUOMwqKAHLfV9K4ZDnMgsU6o0exQgLSrh7wAO7G9gQKC YjjA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530/V8/YfA9MNVddu7mSq4BD/IkDTUaNrzVoBmcB7i3iN0MtOyy5 urHcu1TakHaDaGpJ/6tphaV/t2Cj6BhuCzAB9KAD3jud X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwX9CQOMuFXI0YCS+aWhT3+k7OnvDH3kFCKxBI3wTERSAb0//vEzrFEBQdrTJ2+SpYXHeCshAZIYCD5fZJqV4c= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:16a3:: with SMTP id 35mr76668658vkl.12.1637093260210; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 12:07:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87k0hbfryj.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: From: Carlos Pita Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 17:07:28 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode To: irenezerafa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51819 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 51819@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) > > I understand the OP's frustration though, because this simplicity is not > > a given but the result of an exhausting process of research and > > refinement, there are a lot of options and (ill-)advice usually comes in > > the form of installing yet another extension. One has to learn many > > things that would be better not to know. > > I am pleased to see you understand my point, because the development geniuses > can't. I don't think they don't understand your point, but as it is now your report is not really actionable. You might try your luck discussing the point in emacs-devel, even so company is not part of emacs but a development of the community, not to mention company extensions and extensions of extensions up to the nth degree. Perhaps you believe that this is a consequence of some limitation of the builtin UI and/or protocol that triggered an extension industry around solving emacs shortcomings and may want to discuss that. I don't see anything terribly wrong in said UI and protocol, the UI may be a little clunky for current standards but it's sturdy, gets the job done and is easily replaceable (although I've argued for an improved builtin experience which doesn't seem too far-fetched) and the protocol is not as rich as company's but it's rich enough for most purposes and there is no way to prevent that a new extension X adds some novel feature, gains traction and a new X-.* extension industry flourishes, that's out of the maintainer's hands and, for better or worse, part of emacs DNA. Best regards, Carlos From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 16 15:23:20 2021 Received: (at 51819) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Nov 2021 20:23:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59295 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn4z9-0003wa-Q7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 15:23:20 -0500 Received: from mail-40140.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.140]:31861) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn4z7-0003wA-Pq for 51819@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 15:23:18 -0500 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 20:23:08 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail; t=1637094190; bh=0nD7dp5zocDMWywEYmqTUVgWj2QUm3wDMP2YfV91ifs=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=O/H6GeoBm2dh/LtcIIJWYE2DJft0zmiDQTI2DFzaIlvJAZxvqvHw6JMe3FMJYQTKK 2VigO85/Ejiu7cZA80u/8010WbmfcNGA1klC3dgtyKHoE1+qsfDr4A3Bnd8xKkSUQA +d+jXdIros3htML88RkqUi7Cz1mOlF8im3d9dNOw= To: Carlos Pita From: irenezerafa Subject: bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <87k0hbfryj.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51819 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 51819@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: irenezerafa Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Me= ssage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Tuesday, November 16th, 2021 at 8:07 PM, Carlos Pita wrote: > > > I understand the OP's frustration though, because this simplicity is = not > > > a given but the result of an exhausting process of research and > > > refinement, there are a lot of options and (ill-)advice usually comes= in > > > the form of installing yet another extension. One has to learn many > > > things that would be better not to know. > > > > I am pleased to see you understand my point, because the development ge= niuses > > > > can't. > > I don't think they don't understand your point, but as it is now your > report is not really actionable. You might try your luck discussing > the point in emacs-devel, even so company is not part of emacs but a > development of the community, not to mention company extensions and > extensions of extensions up to the nth degree. There is a time that the project needs to clean things up a bit. It is a b= asic problem as things are accepted for inclusion. I give texinfo as example. = Because originally, it was based on tex, its development has not migrated to a more structured system such as latex, making some improvements basically impossi= ble. > Perhaps you believe > that this is a consequence of some limitation of the builtin UI and/or > protocol that triggered an extension industry around solving emacs > shortcomings and may want to discuss that. I don't see anything > terribly wrong in said UI and protocol, the UI may be a little clunky > for current standards but it's sturdy, gets the job done and is easily > replaceable (although I've argued for an improved builtin experience > which doesn't seem too far-fetched) and the protocol is not as rich as > company's but it's rich enough for most purposes and there is no way > to prevent that a new extension X adds some novel feature, gains > traction and a new X-.* extension industry flourishes, that's out of > the maintainer's hands and, for better or worse, part of emacs DNA. Have understood criticisms of change being slow though. Getting the job do= ne is customarily the first iteration in software when working at a serious en= ough place. Being able to get the job done (i.e. hacking) seems to be enough fo= r many people, because design is much more demanding. I experienced this in indus= try, with the result that things started to be rewritten rather that fixed or wa= sting months or years trying to follow the haphazard evolution of the software. > Best regards, > > Carlos From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 16 16:30:23 2021 Received: (at 51819) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Nov 2021 21:30:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59358 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn623-0007BS-2m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 16:30:23 -0500 Received: from mail-ua1-f49.google.com ([209.85.222.49]:42616) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn621-000749-SB for 51819@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 16:30:22 -0500 Received: by mail-ua1-f49.google.com with SMTP id t13so1177422uad.9 for <51819@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 13:30:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yWejYR9mfCPra5mTXFWuQrFrLUaFHC2GAatDWckM/AM=; b=IZZD8gF1SmiZuCMoSBwnIQvMK/4K5WBVCWmzsF0YfCqJsVSC0B2zvR23xV/0op8mRU yLi5mqFzCqoaszHGWeVri79SkyCOp0weKmyhMxJd5UdXoOQzpf2U8kevwccpUUhOhdrd hKqgX2Lwx5CY5NNG/sGkkfJvYWjpJX4F9yeiloX7GYSJKwPcJ4c3XZo+za498bR+EdHf eWJujd3IY5QRGUxiI0Ug9mAklu6EM8h1bQK9Q3TdYUD5yys1nlX3Vrmouq7Lwww/owiA dNG+XVuTqj/KBEXpNnu0fpSWPAeT9LR4e38vLfRRNFvI7p3m4qzTjM9U7NJKY8GKo/Ck A5fg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yWejYR9mfCPra5mTXFWuQrFrLUaFHC2GAatDWckM/AM=; b=vagktlhTFvGIVvH6t90B0U9tlmnsTT+Q6OUv5vd/VYoyvdWCOXjEYh7meXjLDWIIvB g5yjEmE5swnjGIkn90HZ2sWVXdf8IPOoC4g4YVi6HxL2qedaVluHhjZLioeJ8qYUWJvZ WaDLuG+c/iDUFSrl9qZBVvE3N7I3a01MwehaT1RWFeQRX3WOR0J4ShPM00Z0S3nTTyCU +yfC1Yu9DL6EpyBTi+Qr6Xf/5cw5UWexPOUne6lRl7ucOc1siw/lnUK98Wb7ccQYIusY X5MGm9euvzUPuw3oSC5b6HA+IR/d6qzleKIdCD/mZBjxcikDq0OSQUtISihC8iDyY63W sH6Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530lZiDAAV4RPWcoQz3WhyisdqHlDOkhswA2qHvx8BdUNJ5rosJJ OESkJim1n0C25N31WdfJw66IHGZsJSdpO9+H//QZv9w1 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwf/uis006XGPopBtI/6zhEDCI3D0s7wUIDjpqd1OzUXvE974fxAnxPEvyoARiHyJA2ewpSLKUqZ7WCB26kCMM= X-Received: by 2002:a67:1c05:: with SMTP id c5mr60875429vsc.25.1637098215836; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 13:30:15 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87k0hbfryj.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: From: Carlos Pita Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 18:30:04 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode To: irenezerafa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51819 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 51819@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) >> I am installing Company Mode so I can use auto completion. One last thing that I believe should be obvious at this point, but just in case: you don't need to install company to use auto-completion, auto-completion works OOTB. Company sports an overlay that many people find convenient and AFAIK also defines some extensions to the core protocol (whose usage is seemingly not encouraged these days anyway). Emacs auto-completions come mostly in two flavours: 1. completing-read, for example the one for C-x C-f 2. completion-at-point, namely the one you want to customize using company. But if you only need some vertical fuzzy-matching experience for 1 and a popup for 2, just install corfu and you're good with a configuration as simple as the one I posted above. I know this is of little consolation, because you have already been exposed to information that you don't care about, but that's the best I have. > There is a time that the project needs to clean things up a bit. There has been a significant cleanup regarding completion, both in core emacs and in the community. Things are pretty mature right now and expectations converge around the two core protocols listed above (compare it to the situation a few years ago, with the emergence of helm, ivy, company, etc, as well as ido, pcomplete, etc in the core). But you are complaining about the outcome of a historical development that there was no clear way (nor desire, I hope) to prevent. I don't want to be Pangloss here, but it's in the nature of things that extensions will be less conservative and change faster than the core. This has both positive and negative aspects: on the plus side, you may have been enjoying helm, ivy and company for years now, on the minus side there is this senselessness you perceive (and you have painted a rosy picture of it...). Some alternatives are a fossilised project or a project that is breaking things with every release; by all means, there is no such way as a project evolving at the perfect rate of change, there is always uncertainty about future directions, many of them yet unknown, and also a pile of constraints inherited from past decisions. IMO having a creative and active community is more of an asset than a liability, even if sometimes it's innovating too fast for the project to provide any sort of meaningful coordination. But you seem to see a slow-paced project instead of the fast-paced community around it. I may agree with you about some other emacs aspects, but regarding completion I believe sustained progress has actually been made over the years. > wasting months or years trying to follow the haphazard evolution of the software. Sure, some other projects take more decisions upfront at the price of losing some flexibility, maybe you would be better served by vscode in that regard. Extreme flexibility is not necessarily a virtue, my empty all-in-one-editor.c is as flexible as it is useless. At any rate I don't think this is the case with emacs, but it's clearly biased towards more organic evolution that you seem to dislike. Best regards, Carlos From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 16 16:44:28 2021 Received: (at 51819) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Nov 2021 21:44:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59370 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn6Fg-00017J-Cc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 16:44:28 -0500 Received: from mail-40130.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.130]:41159) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn6Fe-00016v-L8 for 51819@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 16:44:27 -0500 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 21:44:19 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail; t=1637099059; bh=FfxJK0dHog7ow7TwCNzeG23moBD60ioho3IvVKg3b3E=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=Dp/x63yF3EdfEEXbpUYF3IuKGIrhrLJPx/Mo2odJJ5E1prGbEFpmbtPEHoETqvZxa /qT2UjOzlzUN//z/oBC2p71e0ThlqtLbvzjVhbxnIODwIyNX/PN/X6S/206IEfdbOn qktJr/FF0PSFQqRWSB5MxTfu/hihvE5TXkskh/Hc= To: Carlos Pita From: irenezerafa Subject: bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode Message-ID: <3HH5OTjwiEa88ERSj68bCu9Csjgz9OYjUG6L5IyHtmwPK1MKtzmNTPuOGVuit4Rr8XddlRKtCDNBv1vRhuBFEd2qUCsJP268H7lADLShZ7w=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <87k0hbfryj.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51819 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 51819@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: irenezerafa Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Me= ssage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Tuesday, November 16th, 2021 at 9:30 PM, Carlos Pita wrote: > > > I am installing Company Mode so I can use auto completion. > > One last thing that I believe should be obvious at this point, but > just in case: you don't need to install company to use > auto-completion, auto-completion works OOTB. I did not know this. Thought company is the OOTB one, than an external thi= ng. How does one use the auto-completion you are discussing? > Company sports an overlay that many people find convenient and AFAIK > also defines some extensions to the core protocol (whose usage is > seemingly not encouraged these days anyway). > > Emacs auto-completions come mostly in two flavours: > > 1. completing-read, for example the one for C-x C-f > 2. completion-at-point, namely the one you want to customize using compa= ny. > > But if you only need some vertical fuzzy-matching experience for 1 an= d > a popup for 2, just install corfu and you're good with a configuratio= n > as simple as the one I posted above. I know this is of little > consolation, because you have already been exposed to information tha= t > you don't care about, but that's the best I have. > > There is a time that the project needs to clean things up a bit. > There has been a significant cleanup regarding completion, both in > core emacs and in the community. Things are pretty mature right now > and expectations converge around the two core protocols listed above > (compare it to the situation a few years ago, with the emergence of > helm, ivy, company, etc, as well as ido, pcomplete, etc in the core). I use ivy, company and orderless. > But you are complaining about the outcome of a historical development > that there was no clear way (nor desire, I hope) to prevent. I don't > want to be Pangloss here, but it's in the nature of things that > extensions will be less conservative and change faster than the core. > > This has both positive and negative aspects: on the plus side, you may > have been enjoying helm, ivy and company for years now, on the minus > side there is this senselessness you perceive (and you have painted a > rosy picture of it...). Some alternatives are a fossilised project or > a project that is breaking things with every release; by all means, > there is no such way as a project evolving at the perfect rate of > change, there is always uncertainty about future directions, many of > them yet unknown, and also a pile of constraints inherited from past > decisions. IMO having a creative and active community is more of an > asset than a liability, even if sometimes it's innovating too fast for > the project to provide any sort of meaningful coordination. But you > seem to see a slow-paced project instead of the fast-paced community > around it. I may agree with you about some other emacs aspects, but > regarding completion I believe sustained progress has actually been > made over the years. It is more from the new user point of view that emacs is becoming more complicated to configure. I am using company mode as is, but decided to advise, for free. > > wasting months or years trying to follow the haphazard evolution of the= software. > Sure, some other projects take more decisions upfront at the price of > losing some flexibility, maybe you would be better served by vscode in > that regard. Extreme flexibility is not necessarily a virtue, my empty > all-in-one-editor.c is as flexible as it is useless. At any rate I don't > think this is the case with emacs, but it's clearly biased towards > more organic evolution that you seem to dislike. Have used vscode. Am not against organic evolution, but once something becomes a fundamental functionality (e.g. completion), evolution should move consciously after some time. It is a different focus that also has its place. > Best regards, > Carlos From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 16 17:48:59 2021 Received: (at 51819) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Nov 2021 22:48:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59396 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn7G6-0003r5-Kr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 17:48:58 -0500 Received: from mail-vk1-f172.google.com ([209.85.221.172]:44685) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn7G4-0003qd-HE for 51819@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 17:48:57 -0500 Received: by mail-vk1-f172.google.com with SMTP id u68so449470vke.11 for <51819@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 14:48:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=rjhajgezlA19a3YDtUVBdv1oca6YONj6AnlcoCbsQxQ=; b=Q0+/DArMzA/9775hbuRuJsonA9iMLG3dMbZffmzC9pmyLAJ9A+JMSrOzTGZLnvL5oO LovKHeg8XIUYLnT5CVb90VTqg/l/KWpljSYZhi9HhJUChmm4gTNncEUXzBE6MtHttbgm KNxarazHY91HWoLQ3jQEGEifrQkZOm+WavGvWPBicROi8CtUhnZB4iiAIrI8Fg/XVmf1 zFI6aaNLpOUk1iRxrL8N7x1HfLomRhgckhX0vx8ANMY97o4gH2mPHK8svKLAMTGJEbjV tL/ewIqXeKqjKKmKa/UP99vgjHI/+GRXv6Eh9je1a49AZkH1JIPxGVzrUsvn0MgVYPkp ScTg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rjhajgezlA19a3YDtUVBdv1oca6YONj6AnlcoCbsQxQ=; b=xMc/vbr+mSeeGG1hZdT4OCAQU6TgUKTD+5gDWf/ea6mZXOhyNNgiG9YX+oVe8D/hOT fSadMNMhSUlapfTnN/QhmWfXToOzM3Ni/VhNc4ODuCO/4QhJtR5MbBb2cRpZqkVjNZCY 3Lk875sUAshhcAd0qg6gFLS6MUmxvekW8jrCVBUsmIKZE+FTJA9rtrjHUGc5oO5scFcF fgP4LIrD6MaG80G3QX/WPORgVkJfzap3446ysOxMh7j+t9iX2WiyybP08fATwV5n7nBR xvCR7fQz+EPULQpvyKuBhthy8rEir4GVkV98RT4GyjZn3v3E9k999zUGAgzY2jS2U1xJ JUZA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533O+aoZFvkfNb1hyJMN7O1T4kUmESVO6MzMywreoqGWW1Xp9Uuw 2S5BiH7d8wIiK+mD5MXdE/Ej67oRPgMn7z90TOc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzzF9iWIlKSgh23k3Ten4I9hss0/mi7VFK7Vq8UdOA/R5xOcdGFwVMdjKqTwU8rpnQACHIanWUkTWnpdpS9wiw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:550:: with SMTP id y16mr80501622vko.0.1637102930982; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 14:48:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87k0hbfryj.fsf@gnus.org> <3HH5OTjwiEa88ERSj68bCu9Csjgz9OYjUG6L5IyHtmwPK1MKtzmNTPuOGVuit4Rr8XddlRKtCDNBv1vRhuBFEd2qUCsJP268H7lADLShZ7w=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3HH5OTjwiEa88ERSj68bCu9Csjgz9OYjUG6L5IyHtmwPK1MKtzmNTPuOGVuit4Rr8XddlRKtCDNBv1vRhuBFEd2qUCsJP268H7lADLShZ7w=@protonmail.com> From: Carlos Pita Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 19:48:39 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode To: irenezerafa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51819 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 51819@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) > I did not know this. Thought company is the OOTB one, than an external thing. > How does one use the auto-completion you are discussing? This is described in the manual: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Symbol-Completion.html Be aware that it's not a fancy popup that updates itself while you're typing, instead it's more like what you get in bash. Nevertheless: - The protocol is already there, when you install company most of the things work OOTB because of the core protocol. Of course if company adds extra features on top of it there is no way this could be supported without installing further company-.* extensions as the ones you listed at the top, but there is ample consensus not to do that without good reason and alternatives have already emerged with core APIs full-compatibility as a strong guiding principle. I encourage you to visit the projects in https://github.com/minad/, especially vertico, consult, embark, marginalia and corfu. You don't need to install anything, just read about them and decide, you can pick only the parts that you're interested in. I've only installed corfu for now because I find the child frame nicer and more convenient than the default UI, but I could easily live without that. - The protocol is already very customizable without installing anything else. See for example the variable completion-styles. You can set it to flex for fuzzy matching. You mentioned you're using orderless: it also leverages this core mechanism in order to provide a different completion strategy. So, as you can see, there is more here than you first thought, it's not really "haphazard evolution". > once something becomes a fundamental functionality (e.g. completion), > evolution should move consciously after some time. I hope I've convinced you this is indeed what's happening. Indeed, most of what I've described has been there for many many years. > I use ivy, company and orderless. ivy implements its own protocols, be aware that there is a world of ivy-.* stuff too. Also be aware that some of the packages in https://github.com/minad/ are alternatives to ivy (it's not another case of NIH though, because the idea is to stick to the roots for good). ivy can do completion-at-point too: https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/57fnar/ivy_completion_at_point_in_an_overlay/ Maybe that's enough for your needs so you don't have to install anything else. Best regards, Carlos From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 16 18:24:56 2021 Received: (at 51819) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Nov 2021 23:24:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59431 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn7ot-0007UE-QA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 18:24:56 -0500 Received: from mail-40135.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.135]:29578) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn7or-0007Tv-Cn for 51819@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 18:24:54 -0500 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 23:24:45 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail; t=1637105086; bh=qknVD68UVYZ8ES8ot8LkW0gDYZh97RYp3qwhjdXD7VE=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=etJYkmU0lEbJ2UXswXRMZ5sMaJGwtzI42akdAMcOP7EczyERrvr4q5hpnvxRJmNnE h5WGVc3c938bmNVQspqFwH3aofj4zo0Xf9IKPbMAI72witYRMVjcWSw0Qho1lnNamx nlCqZSS0CRVD2HVRReTztho9w99mcwuCgf+wRagw= To: Carlos Pita From: irenezerafa Subject: bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode Message-ID: <3MrKAAqmjrgofaJ20S377p52aXYjeL5kbOXXzH159e3j47V1KzE3DzcNvCKZHROcBLM11jsxCtLQpuV1-DWH2O-Fl9tmIOwqEpea_TTVrQk=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <87k0hbfryj.fsf@gnus.org> <3HH5OTjwiEa88ERSj68bCu9Csjgz9OYjUG6L5IyHtmwPK1MKtzmNTPuOGVuit4Rr8XddlRKtCDNBv1vRhuBFEd2qUCsJP268H7lADLShZ7w=@protonmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51819 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 51819@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: irenezerafa Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Me= ssage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Tuesday, November 16th, 2021 at 10:48 PM, Carlos Pita wrote: > > I did not know this. Thought company is the OOTB one, than an external = thing. > > > > How does one use the auto-completion you are discussing? > > This is described in the manual: > > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Symbol-Completi= on.html > Be aware that it's not a fancy popup that updates itself while you're > typing, instead it's more like what you get in bash. Nevertheless: It is the mini-buffer thing. It is not so easy to go through and make the = selections though. Emacs cam be quite straining on the fingers. > - The protocol is already there, when you install company most of the > things work OOTB because of the core protocol. Of course if company > adds extra features on top of it there is no way this could be > supported without installing further company-.* extensions as the one= s > you listed at the top, but there is ample consensus not to do > that without good reason and alternatives have already emerged with > core APIs full-compatibility as a strong guiding principle. I > encourage you to visit the projects in https://github.com/minad/, > especially vertico, consult, embark, marginalia and corfu. You don't > need to install anything, just read about them and decide, you can > pick only the parts that you're interested in. I've only installed > corfu for now because I find the child frame nicer and more > convenient than the default UI, but I could easily live without > that. > - The protocol is already very customizable without installing > anything else. See for example the variable completion-styles. You ca= n > set it to flex for fuzzy matching. You mentioned you're using > orderless: it also leverages this core mechanism in order to provide > a different completion strategy. > So, as you can see, there is more here than you first thought, it's > not really "haphazard evolution". > > once something becomes a fundamental functionality (e.g. completion), > > evolution should move consciously after some time. > I hope I've convinced you this is indeed what's happening. Indeed, > most of what I've described has been there for many many years. Am glad to hear it. From about Emacs 28 things are quite better than distributions whose repositories still ship with Emacs 25 or earlier. > > I use ivy, company and orderless. > ivy implements its own protocols, be aware that there is a world of > ivy-.* stuff too. Also be aware that some of the packages in > https://github.com/minad/ are alternatives to ivy (it's not another > case of NIH though, because the idea is to stick to the roots for > good). > ivy can do completion-at-point too: > https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/57fnar/ivy_completion_at_point_in= _an_overlay/ > Maybe that's enough for your needs so you don't have to install anything = else. > Best regards, I am very interested in completion of words as I write documents. Although= coding related stuff is also handy. I customarily have key bindings to switch bet= ween orderless, ivy, company. All depending on the work at the time. Thanks Carlos From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 16 19:15:27 2021 Received: (at 51819) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Nov 2021 00:15:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59442 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn8bn-0000vP-5M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 19:15:27 -0500 Received: from mail-4324.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.24]:56121) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn8bl-0000v7-8o for 51819@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 19:15:26 -0500 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 00:15:16 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail; t=1637108118; bh=JXFJlJ0/C3YccZTgpVCW7nuE4f7wkA6Kj0ZspTLCjsY=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=lCDh+l0FRGrcxDpC0fJXPdmfV8m5jUEWfFJF058FmoDweFwCLydI4HVEiKTUZfAZ7 +3qGVchoCobbGwEaOfrCfIrRxhNIXYBb9iwaEnh/FkIbH/G0vDc6Ozh5MT5JSwRX4c bamh2AKTNsGa4THPSDYGJY34ReATjlTelEmE2+QI= To: Carlos Pita From: irenezerafa Subject: bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3MrKAAqmjrgofaJ20S377p52aXYjeL5kbOXXzH159e3j47V1KzE3DzcNvCKZHROcBLM11jsxCtLQpuV1-DWH2O-Fl9tmIOwqEpea_TTVrQk=@protonmail.com> References: <87k0hbfryj.fsf@gnus.org> <3HH5OTjwiEa88ERSj68bCu9Csjgz9OYjUG6L5IyHtmwPK1MKtzmNTPuOGVuit4Rr8XddlRKtCDNBv1vRhuBFEd2qUCsJP268H7lADLShZ7w=@protonmail.com> <3MrKAAqmjrgofaJ20S377p52aXYjeL5kbOXXzH159e3j47V1KzE3DzcNvCKZHROcBLM11jsxCtLQpuV1-DWH2O-Fl9tmIOwqEpea_TTVrQk=@protonmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51819 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 51819@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: irenezerafa Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Me= ssage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Tuesday, November 16th, 2021 at 11:24 PM, irenezerafa wrote: > =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original = Message =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 > > On Tuesday, November 16th, 2021 at 10:48 PM, Carlos Pita carlosjosepita2@= gmail.com wrote: > > > > I did not know this. Thought company is the OOTB one, than an externa= l thing. > > > > > > How does one use the auto-completion you are discussing? > > > > This is described in the manual: > > > > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Symbol-Comple= tion.html > > > Be aware that it's not a fancy popup that updates itself while you're > > > > typing, instead it's more like what you get in bash. Nevertheless: > > It is the mini-buffer thing. It is not so easy to go through and make the= selections > > though. Emacs cam be quite straining on the fingers. > > > - The protocol is already there, when you install company most of the > > > > things work OOTB because of the core protocol. Of course if company > > > > adds extra features on top of it there is no way this could be > > > > supported without installing further company-.* extensions as the o= nes > > > > you listed at the top, but there is ample consensus not to do > > > > that without good reason and alternatives have already emerged with > > > > core APIs full-compatibility as a strong guiding principle. I > > > > encourage you to visit the projects in https://github.com/minad/, > > > > especially vertico, consult, embark, marginalia and corfu. You don'= t > > > > need to install anything, just read about them and decide, you can > > > > pick only the parts that you're interested in. I've only installed > > > > corfu for now because I find the child frame nicer and more > > > > convenient than the default UI, but I could easily live without > > > > that. > > > - The protocol is already very customizable without installing > > > > anything else. See for example the variable completion-styles. You = can > > > > set it to flex for fuzzy matching. You mentioned you're using > > > > orderless: it also leverages this core mechanism in order to provid= e > > > > a different completion strategy. > > > So, as you can see, there is more here than you first thought, it's > > not really "haphazard evolution". > > > > > > once something becomes a fundamental functionality (e.g. completion), > > > > > > evolution should move consciously after some time. > > > I hope I've convinced you this is indeed what's happening. Indeed, > > > > most of what I've described has been there for many many years. > > Am glad to hear it. From about Emacs 28 things are quite better than > > distributions whose repositories still ship with Emacs 25 or earlier. > > > > I use ivy, company and orderless. > > > ivy implements its own protocols, be aware that there is a world of > > > > ivy-.* stuff too. Also be aware that some of the packages in > > > > https://github.com/minad/ are alternatives to ivy (it's not another > > > > case of NIH though, because the idea is to stick to the roots for > > > > good). > > > ivy can do completion-at-point too: > > > https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/57fnar/ivy_completion_at_point_= in_an_overlay/ > > > Maybe that's enough for your needs so you don't have to install anythin= g else. > > > > Best regards, > > I am very interested in completion of words as I write documents. Althoug= h coding > related stuff is also handy. I customarily have key bindings to switch be= tween orderless, > ivy, company. All depending on the work at the time. > > Thanks Carlos Dear Carlos, what is the best completion there is that is immediately avail= able after installing emacs. I recommend a completion implementation that is av= ailable automatically by default, but which uses a popup window as provided by eith= er auto-complete or company-mode as a start. There are significant advantages with completion popups which go beyond the= just fancy. Popups are more productive from the rapidity of completion point of view. Another aspect is to improve the ease by which I can include the equivalent= to running functions by including them in the menu-bar, in contrast to keybinding comm= ands. As one writes more functions, it becomes more difficult to remember tho key= bindings one defined for each user-defined functionality. 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b=lrw8bJZ3TQTNaNr0hMTf0r6PtRWFEey6LSm1Rjkq6gRloxEGa+AZyOy6C6BesjHEu0qcMqDSOojedji4xrPYwkWiLLjq50jZ1ftSSPAprmEd9KpbXGQyOq1Loxir1XaARG5jhR3OPzJdh/B+8wOLSFdDSKGVKqDrqBkwFGj2I9o= Received: from CO6PR10MB5473.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:5:355::21) by MWHPR10MB2048.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:300:10d::19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4713.19; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 02:30:44 +0000 Received: from CO6PR10MB5473.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d0fa:fa4b:7c65:ddd6]) by CO6PR10MB5473.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d0fa:fa4b:7c65:ddd6%5]) with mapi id 15.20.4669.022; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 02:30:44 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: irenezerafa , Carlos Pita Subject: RE: [External] : bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode Thread-Index: AQHX20EztztPPlEixUiBX4sdVANWiqwG/TkQ Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 02:30:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87k0hbfryj.fsf@gnus.org> <3HH5OTjwiEa88ERSj68bCu9Csjgz9OYjUG6L5IyHtmwPK1MKtzmNTPuOGVuit4Rr8XddlRKtCDNBv1vRhuBFEd2qUCsJP268H7lADLShZ7w=@protonmail.com> <3MrKAAqmjrgofaJ20S377p52aXYjeL5kbOXXzH159e3j47V1KzE3DzcNvCKZHROcBLM11jsxCtLQpuV1-DWH2O-Fl9tmIOwqEpea_TTVrQk=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3MrKAAqmjrgofaJ20S377p52aXYjeL5kbOXXzH159e3j47V1KzE3DzcNvCKZHROcBLM11jsxCtLQpuV1-DWH2O-Fl9tmIOwqEpea_TTVrQk=@protonmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4ad215a4-bae9-4efe-ea07-08d9a97241a7 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR10MB2048: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:6790; 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17 Nov 2021 02:54:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59579 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mnB5G-0006nD-PI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 21:54:02 -0500 Received: from mail-40140.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.140]:12017) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mnB5E-0006mW-QU for 51819@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 21:54:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 02:53:50 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail; t=1637117634; bh=HFYdMGicmtblBj0KvLoklaxSt+S1rBf4K+1X7s4B7ug=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:From; b=NN7UKmqccONUG9BiIzvwdOXmrDYUIpHeS+fAX+AOBYjNx7HJb97bxUcc3hZNrVWz0 9JUxVn7CTkywILa+HTKfc7NKoaPQ130lSHb4KFNNGQjVvNsmhyOiqPwX5mUIJHN5QK BINyorRvcJ3V+/v+JYlMBK3Wbjw7P6X77/PmgzL8= To: Drew Adams From: irenezerafa Subject: bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51819 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Carlos Pita , "51819@debbugs.gnu.org" <51819@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: irenezerafa Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Me= ssage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Wednesday, November 17th, 2021 at 2:30 AM, Drew Adams wrote: > > I am very interested in completion of words as I write documents. > > Caveat: I'm not following this thread. I just > happened upon that sentence. Mostly interested in completion mechanisms that do not require me to install packages, as I consider completion to be such a basic functionality that it should be installed by default, unless one decides excludes to excl= ude it. More for new users, because I am mainly using company-mode. > Wrt your expressed interest, I assume you already > know about `dabbrev'. You might also be interested in the very old librar= y` completion.el'. It's still part of Emacs and still > useful, precisely for what you describe: completing > words you actually use when writing . There is also abbrev-mode. There is just too many versions and too many to= try out. That's my basic complaint. The pop-up window is the most valuable for fast typers and writ= ers. > The "doc" for it is a rambling description in the > file header, but it's simple and understandable. > There's nothing fancy at all, and you might find it > quaint, but it can be quite useful. You can pretty > much complete everything you type. It has a > dabbrev-like behavior, but it can also automatically > persist words you've used etc. > I'd say give it a try. You just might find it useful. > `M-x find-library completion'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 16 22:00:32 2021 Received: (at 51819) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Nov 2021 03:00:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59595 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mnBBY-00072v-5a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 22:00:32 -0500 Received: from mail-4318.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.18]:45107) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mnBBV-00072b-RN for 51819@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 22:00:30 -0500 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 03:00:21 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail; t=1637118023; bh=6DJTywhMhA8eL3zllQF/CnYfAj4rEDOi6AJN73tbD7E=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:From; b=C6ukp12IW/CBMKfmbukMSINNwYoVotCi/qF/W2MGlvK9Jd+NiVZX1KlvzNSQPEAWb DPkS+dy2nLHTCqItuY/oubbDXtjfziFnnptmgyhhU52wO+awRHHbZxMz4C5vfx1953 mNB5CUXRisRFbDdS1JUa2ogVXiSctDwlM84Gndpc= To: Drew Adams From: irenezerafa Subject: bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51819 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Carlos Pita , "51819@debbugs.gnu.org" <51819@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: irenezerafa Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Me= ssage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Wednesday, November 17th, 2021 at 2:30 AM, Drew Adams wrote: > > I am very interested in completion of words as I write documents. > Caveat: I'm not following this thread. I just > happened upon that sentence. > Wrt your expressed interest, I assume you already > know about `dabbrev'. You might also be interested in the very old librar= y` completion.el'. It's still part of Emacs and still > useful, precisely for what you describe: completing > words you actually use when writing . > The "doc" for it is a rambling description in the > file header, but it's simple and understandable. > There's nothing fancy at all, and you might find it > quaint, but it can be quite useful. You can pretty > much complete everything you type. It has a > dabbrev-like behavior, but it can also automatically > persist words you've used etc. > I'd say give it a try. You just might find it useful. > `M-x find-library completion'. Do I need to install anything, or put anything in my emacs init? I like the "watches all the words that you type and remembers them". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 16 22:09:03 2021 Received: (at 51819) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Nov 2021 03:09:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59601 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mnBJn-0007LD-02 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 22:09:03 -0500 Received: from mail-ua1-f43.google.com ([209.85.222.43]:45021) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mnBJk-0007Kd-SV for 51819@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 22:09:01 -0500 Received: by mail-ua1-f43.google.com with SMTP id p2so2662231uad.11 for <51819@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 19:09:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=GdIrWAjitXAlVyClQErbVI2tl0abBj1KeFHZ9B+xnYc=; b=HTMHWPNdo0zLiUFV/CjEsZJhWlHp5OxUXbwgBq2WSnK5CDbsMJ96clNNBfWqeAGfD/ OBWL5oxs/56At09GR9yHtDBSlc2TA/oaB9JnFNK8Gp558mOvf2zaxKi/H/3SObwc51ij kNmSNAe95Wm6TszOCvMt2bE2BKB/XqKbEZ+xVfvfexbJyzNVa9WILUkH24RjyM7nr6s6 a7rlSIAT/FyAakSXzu2Bru2oXEzQlAvIyl23nRPBcJiFexNIU1vOsnqUMefQ2yf2OjFv ydSbkOcmwmS32yt+G+dHDhrQuiY3VAFwkDOR41BZsqDV5o50IyW2wATD9hivi5VutSxi eDPg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=GdIrWAjitXAlVyClQErbVI2tl0abBj1KeFHZ9B+xnYc=; b=ROWLimYbQ4FvIOmrXt0yCPt9QQvIf7mW+eIpmQdfNIWX3YZrBLIDTXqVm1TzqwWeFZ D2U4oidvPEYQSAXHOGVOQSg3XZqVucVW7AK3OIf2rVESnZekV8JZylIy+2atZqX8wZf8 wT1NtYFkeyTW/sBtw78iwU3WAUbdHMMp0ZPfadZwHvkzMQMGBUCVOYPbEQwMeSnFseNK 9FBq+HgLA1XsEyh1ckNpZIbF9I0ubA1paverfudoOBmjasFJEI7ewqrrWDWZmZijEYtS fOnTlu2os88p/3zvlqhvD61TvhA0d/KcPPbKZNpr11tx9m3+noX0zmZPO9EshYZOExii Gdxg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532dytjs7ZoUAZtLw5CrOIzFdDF13R1mxKUu81bnk+J48dDa5hIv h072ikkloL8USNXrz6eetKBcYbDN+Iv/mL1PWdzrijlZ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxZ8yVIlNC8nQkoJJC9cPwaA4rO7s80ftKtesYu++dwYer6lD0DDorBLyTyW35ZZ0wW2Y101QBtiepG0VTqPl0= X-Received: by 2002:a67:d216:: with SMTP id y22mr61996443vsi.6.1637118535267; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 19:08:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87k0hbfryj.fsf@gnus.org> <3HH5OTjwiEa88ERSj68bCu9Csjgz9OYjUG6L5IyHtmwPK1MKtzmNTPuOGVuit4Rr8XddlRKtCDNBv1vRhuBFEd2qUCsJP268H7lADLShZ7w=@protonmail.com> <3MrKAAqmjrgofaJ20S377p52aXYjeL5kbOXXzH159e3j47V1KzE3DzcNvCKZHROcBLM11jsxCtLQpuV1-DWH2O-Fl9tmIOwqEpea_TTVrQk=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3MrKAAqmjrgofaJ20S377p52aXYjeL5kbOXXzH159e3j47V1KzE3DzcNvCKZHROcBLM11jsxCtLQpuV1-DWH2O-Fl9tmIOwqEpea_TTVrQk=@protonmail.com> From: Carlos Pita Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 00:08:44 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode To: irenezerafa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51819 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 51819@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) > It is the mini-buffer thing. It is not so easy to go through and make the selections though. I agree. But you have a number of options here: 1. Use company. 2. Use corfu. 3. Use ivy completion-at-point. 4. Use a completing-read framework able to channel buffer completion to the minibuffer. Selectrum is one, and consult allows you to do that with any completing-read framework. See [1] and [2]. All but the first one are 100% compatible with completion-at-point. Company adds some nifty extensions on top of that but if you use the company-capf backend (this is automatic) it's compatible with all completion-at-point functions. > I am very interested in completion of words as I write documents. For a very straightforward 80/20 solution take a look at dabbrev. That said, there is an ispell backend for company but, sadly, no ispell completion-at-point function. This is perhaps a downside of extensions: even though it's easy to implement this function, effort has been put into implementing one variant that's only compatible with company (which AFAICS doesn't depend on any additional feature of company). Fortunately, the author of corfu is about to publish a very small library implementing some missing functions from which all completion-at-point compatible implementations will benefit, see [3]. There you have combined word/spell/dabbrev completion functions that help enter text. Functions like these may eventually find their way into emacs. > what is the best completion there is that is immediately available > after installing emacs. I recommend a completion implementation that is available > automatically by default, but which uses a popup window as provided by either > auto-complete or company-mode as a start. There is nothing off-the-shelf that fulfills these requirements. In theory there is icomplete-in-buffer but in practice the implementation is buggy (see #51575). Given that you want on-the-fly completions, options 1 and 2 above are the way to go. You can stick with company, which is a good battle-tested option and nowadays works mostly through the company-capf backend, so it channels standard completion-at-point functions, although you can still take advantage of specific extensions like the aforementioned company-ispell. Or you can try corfu which is a simple frontend to completion-at-point, and set corfu-auto in order to enable on-the-fly completions; in this case, take into account [3]. Both solutions easily address your immediate needs, the second one also addresses your more general and harsh complaint here, but it's still somewhat WIP (although the code is high quality and the minimalistic nature of the solution makes it relatively bug free). Best regards, Carlos --- [1] consult-completion-in-region in https://github.com/minad/consult#miscellaneous. [2] https://github.com/raxod502/selectrum/issues/42 [3] https://github.com/minad/corfu/issues/9#issuecomment-945090516 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 16 22:12:21 2021 Received: (at 51819) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Nov 2021 03:12:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59606 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mnBMz-0007ST-Hs for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 22:12:21 -0500 Received: from mail-ua1-f53.google.com ([209.85.222.53]:35442) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mnBMx-0007S6-Ug for 51819@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 22:12:20 -0500 Received: by mail-ua1-f53.google.com with SMTP id l24so2796337uak.2 for <51819@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 19:12:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DJyKWeXkNnGd1zRP/rFACpqXNIIRGUG9jQnxOPtkgIA=; b=CFMXKsOzsfrmDOa4b5WnPcknjm+J8UaMItha2ZLZTcGaJETJHzbMYq+2T6BNI2pART tlYvvT7DXrXsNuQdvq5onApD4k5o6FeKrxfEciBl9qq5+Enih66AkdSE9MzjMqu96Gg7 adBTegQTZq8bjfC/bNtTkx2Oo4svSZHKLFG20ZyQfd/LetVEehfSVS7Haajcfh2MBf1Z YCtuUmCDxuQsh+0qhTsOxO0ifc9aiKWMobAH+XZLMxEy6N7eAA1bgqShMAi+Lunw/Y+w b+rgkgnKhBhS49OpRB0rtYOd+kAiCX6ls46x+GWD3XcBdIynRyh6dJ8ci4+4okXyGrg+ w6aQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DJyKWeXkNnGd1zRP/rFACpqXNIIRGUG9jQnxOPtkgIA=; b=JeHUbmop8H2iW84IRb5zvWIXwcRZ8qC6oW++gyR1bytma0Ex0yHAvNhKrNwGVW9TFA 20C7WfvUxbIhrm+bv/tQVL6T1fejUByhrILZCg4/qWLl7H6p/UfsY9oEPu6/Hv55CGaZ n3s33L5Zp/PBLx7/Fj7WI8U7915x1aTdGAMJQ03nzn8e/Nu5N35zUbBRA+sY2aq5547O b4HsAFogOg5Nv8UNmgQFFoOqUm0WsoXlHesNCotvJ8aof/jZbEoTKiUzjXZ8ULLwq0b8 1JHsJrFuP157ULPWVNRjC56hRx/IZ9b2DBfDAqQcDSFoIFuC6FFQNcnrGKSbbpUUkb8u q08A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53099tT0D8p31Ti8aYDGvUPQrbStjE352KBgqdVtYUcrIDrzKIHq azIWv+83Uouvh6DXSeopNAj2dL7RpcnDgbwHvn0oD7oxHAs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwV2pcOxBX4xzziB9j4bEWuTl/1Olwq2x3x9iOpHg5nvA5OXh+2Bz1a6yfP32Rm4U7atnu7m7/oVOVK2ARnlN8= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:3d87:: with SMTP id l7mr18867287uac.108.1637118734673; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 19:12:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Carlos Pita Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 00:12:04 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode To: irenezerafa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51819 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , "51819@debbugs.gnu.org" <51819@debbugs.gnu.org>, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) > Do I need to install anything, or put anything in my emacs init? > I like the "watches all the words that you type and remembers them". No, it's as old as time, see: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Dynamic-Abbrevs.html But you will have to press Meta-/ so maybe it's not what you're looking for. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 16 22:41:00 2021 Received: (at 51819) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Nov 2021 03:41:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59634 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mnBoi-0008Ua-C5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 22:41:00 -0500 Received: from mail-ua1-f47.google.com ([209.85.222.47]:46060) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mnBog-0008UK-Qc for 51819@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 22:40:59 -0500 Received: by mail-ua1-f47.google.com with SMTP id ay21so2773240uab.12 for <51819@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 19:40:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=c+eeOqy8iFtMWMWSGaG8sNx5pRpbYAfiUWRkfsznods=; b=k8oHyyJ7pEOmcobN6ASREsGWQ6E42iSr1H5h0CFZu0NFrXUgWcIxFa/KiT8w5NH1vf RZsz5NcXTV9A9DmqJ+07hE+wjPyHa/Nr9WXbGTNsVsxLm+4hYuP9am1rSFzJ/IGWL68l 6y3UVolCXWrbamkl1FQxLy4M6wY7/e+2JBbJmZb5Z2/2TH6Ek5JXDvDTVQkckB+JHIuS 50bzRIWZQDyhvUqyt/g9vhjJzZoaZM6/l/ixksQMBA+kLbm4qGCH1xk7hr2Uk1/7nX4s N10S/2+EG8xYnjZvT3nmEhsjTFYOIPkc1rGTfbLg6p4Ibbf8z3sHOAMUFOAGc5MJgIWX JqvQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=c+eeOqy8iFtMWMWSGaG8sNx5pRpbYAfiUWRkfsznods=; b=Dv7BjI02eHsx53g2eh8dQ4/4+VOA5xg8J0rrbyEJt9p3bMgSu4OW+vUhQpfWVSfywB 4IzDvC5xq6h4K/8oUgid3PmF6+M5S229Xp//fv1HSJuOEbojhNUwkM9xq3WZ7f40wzry 57WNCF7YCYgPxUzhj6wkg4n+vR75BDwm02O0CIG2djR0RF9QtXiSA13guKrLIa0OhAIy xuvPdi1o8CUixMQqYc+dgcYvIiejJhkUes407BXP8zRvvAg4cybIhi6ZaSCKkKY9glwy SboTEsvzzsArkTJarCJ3s98iaHLoEzZ7Q5MPM1lrsMXGETNM3L9ZDnd8SOtKiUvzp8ve MxrQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5336mN3FtmDfd+TZBgZY4DZwC6ykgnjbek2SiAh+qAYFOYDip8xx rRdHWDlqiISoWeu14mLZCDX1IBYrJ7FxAIfPiJ9ddKip X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz/xkTVPl1FfV4S84eVG0SgS/zPd1vghI/kRL7vLYSLXMHD/8Apdq0QY0vCmc/jb6gjd3CG6QfTVeQmRB/leto= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:2a10:: with SMTP id o16mr18716760uar.36.1637120453294; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 19:40:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Carlos Pita Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 00:40:42 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode To: irenezerafa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51819 Cc: "51819@debbugs.gnu.org" <51819@debbugs.gnu.org>, Drew Adams X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) > No, it's as old as time, see: > > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Dynamic-Abbrevs.html > > But you will have to press Meta-/ so maybe it's not what you're looking for. Or use company-dabbrev which comes with company (maybe it's even installed by default when you enable company, I don't remember). Or corfu with https://github.com/minad/corfu/issues/9#issuecomment-945090516, as explained above. Both of them support on-the-fly / as-you-type / whatever completions. That said, my main use case for emacs is also working with text (I mean, natural language) and I find it extremely annoying that a popup opens with every word I start typing, have you actually tried that and liked it? There's no lack of requests for such a behavior to be turned off by default, e.g. https://github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs/issues/11743. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 17 11:13:43 2021 Received: (at 51819) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Nov 2021 16:13:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33599 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mnNZ9-0002op-8e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 11:13:43 -0500 Received: from mail-4319.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.19]:28103) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mnNZ4-0002oR-M7 for 51819@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 11:13:42 -0500 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 16:13:29 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail; t=1637165611; bh=gCJxR6/W2l5O4IyJW652VIAqEUS3E5g5yV8ZpUVho1E=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=o8uVvh4vlbMAotpqaVLfhsjvk+oVv542c4Q0uhAYDDRtwETMw1TXNFSPybcEdfJGD 3FsgkOiYi96J45EGpYXj54jHPdhD0PVXHkCx4RcqmN6Slbwk+jaFEC5I+yTdfMWsjh SF80zKxBW+89cHAESVbPsdH+D02cxGm3rLfgF+2w= To: Carlos Pita From: irenezerafa Subject: bug#51819: The Senselessness of Emacs Company Mode Message-ID: <_Lkr55XVEBaC98oW4wyDRH5_Ix9HEAxANeDM2b-B7n4frgi-HxxSnt3FWIlqP1Ex6ZudxyiXddJQAF_p6ybAt6sFi-T_moLWZoDBqRtIYqE=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51819 Cc: "51819@debbugs.gnu.org" <51819@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: irenezerafa Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Me= ssage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Wednesday, November 17th, 2021 at 3:40 AM, Carlos Pita wrote: > > No, it's as old as time, see: > > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Dynamic-Abbre= vs.html > > But you will have to press Meta-/ so maybe it's not what you're looking= for. > Or use company-dabbrev which comes with company (maybe it's even > installed by default when you enable company, I don't remember). Or > corfu with https://github.com/minad/corfu/issues/9#issuecomment-945090516= , > as explained above. Both of them support on-the-fly / as-you-type / > whatever completions. > That said, my main use case for emacs is also > working with text (I mean, natural language) and I find it extremely > annoying that a popup opens with every word I start typing, I do write in natural language. But also write mathematics with very strange vocabulary and the popup is convenient because I can keep my eyes en the text. But it depends on the kind op popup. I like the small popup list from company mode next to the cursor, instead of a minibuffer window, or a side emacs window. One can put a delay for activating the popup. > have you > actually tried that and liked it? There's no lack of requests for such > a behavior to be turned off by default, e.g. > https://github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs/issues/11743. There exist uses for it, but also understand others having the ability to switch it off (when done with a keybinding or simple function call, rather that messing with the init file to switch it on or off permanently). The biggest problem I see are those who are too prescriptive about emacs functionality (those wanting exclusion of something permanently). Exclusio= n of functionality in a permanent way is often a lack of use case for that individual to use it. One never knows what valid use cases some dude could have for something. 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