GNU bug report logs - #518
Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation sequences

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Message #5 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: coriordan <at> vorcha.compsoc.com (Ciaran O'Riordan)
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation sequences
Date: Wed,  2 Jul 2008 15:40:59 +0100 (IST)

When I set the input method to "dutch", and I type an 's' followed by a comma (which is as common in Dutch as it is in English) I get ş (s with a squiggle).  Further, it seems that all characters that are needed for typing in Turkish have been given a key sequence in the Dutch input method. For someone who just wants to write in Dutch, this is frustrating enough for the dutch input method to be not worth using. 


In GNU Emacs 22.1.1 (i486-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.12.9)
 of 2008-05-03 on terranova, modified by Ubuntu
configured using `configure  '--build=i486-linux-gnu' '--host=i486-linux-gnu' '--prefix=/usr' '--sharedstatedir=/var/lib' '--libexecdir=/usr/lib' '--localstatedir=/var' '--infodir=/usr/share/info' '--mandir=/usr/share/man' '--with-pop=yes' '--enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs22:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/22.1/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/22.1/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/22.1/leim' '--with-x=yes' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk' 'build_alias=i486-linux-gnu' 'host_alias=i486-linux-gnu' 'CFLAGS=-DDEBIAN -DSITELOAD_PURESIZE_EXTRA=5000 -g -O2' 'LDFLAGS=-g -Wl,--as-needed' 'CPPFLAGS=''

Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: nil
  value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
  value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
  value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
  value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
  value of $LC_TIME: nil
  value of $LANG: en_IE.UTF-8 <at> euro
  locale-coding-system: utf-8
  default-enable-multibyte-characters: t

Major mode: Group

Minor modes in effect:
  gnus-undo-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  display-time-mode: t
  encoded-kbd-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  unify-8859-on-encoding-mode: t
  utf-translate-cjk-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent input:
a v e SPC s o m e SPC s u p p o r t e r s C-p C-e C-f 
C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f 
C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-k C-x b RET q g n n n 
p p RET RET ESC > C-r m i n a RET ESC > C-r i m DEL 
l h m DEL DEL m h RET ESC > C-r j a p a DEL o n RET 
q C-x b RET C-x b RET g g p p p p p p p p p n RET RET 
q g p p p p p p p p p p p RET E E q g n n n RET E q 
g n n n n n n n n n n n n n n RET RET ESC > q g g p 
p p p RET E q g g n n p p p p p p p p p p p p p RET 
RET ESC > C-p C-p RET C-g n C-g q g g g g g g g m C-n 
C-n C-n C-n C-n C-o C-o C-n ESC x s e t - i n p u TAB 
RET d u t TAB RET s ; DEL DEL s , C-p C-f C-k C-x k 
RET y e s RET m C-x k RET ESC x e m a c s - b u TAB 
TAB TAB DEL DEL DEL DEL TAB TAB ESC DEL b u g TAB TAB 
TAB C-h a b u g RET C-x o C-v C-v q C-x 0 ESC x e r 
e DEL DEL DEL r e p o TAB r t TAB RET

Recent messages:
nnml: Reading incoming mail (no new mail)...done
Reading active file via nnml...done
Reading active file from archive via nnfolder...done
Checking new news...done
Making completion list...
Quit
Loading apropos...done
Type C-x 1 to remove help window.  
Making completion list...
Loading emacsbug...done

Message #10 received at 518 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: James Cloos <cloos <at> jhcloos.com>
To: 518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation sequences
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:32:33 -0400

On that front, the ij (ij) and IJ (IJ) ligs are not really used.  (They
are only in the UCS for compatability with legacy encodings.)

They should not be part of the default input method.

-JimC
-- 
James Cloos <cloos <at> jhcloos.com>         OpenPGP: 1024D/ED7DAEA6

Message #15 received at 518 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>
To: "Ciaran O'Riordan" <coriordan <at> vorcha.compsoc.com>
Cc: 518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation sequences
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2008 22:44:35 +0300

> When I set the input method to "dutch", and I type an 's' followed by
> a comma (which is as common in Dutch as it is in English) I get ş (s
> with a squiggle).  Further, it seems that all characters that are
> needed for typing in Turkish have been given a key sequence in the
> Dutch input method. For someone who just wants to write in Dutch, this
> is frustrating enough for the dutch input method to be not worth using.

Maybe this should be fixed by separating Dutch and Turkish input methods,
and implementing a feature to combine two and more input methods for
those users who need this.

-- 
Juri Linkov
http://www.jurta.org/emacs/

Message #20 received at 518 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Joe Wells <jbw <at> macs.hw.ac.uk>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>
Cc: 518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
        "Ciaran O'Riordan" <coriordan <at> vorcha.compsoc.com>
Subject: Re: bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation sequences
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:13:35 +0100

Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org> writes:

> Maybe this should be fixed by …,
> and implementing a feature to combine two and more input methods for
> those users who need this.

Strongly agreed!  It would be wonderful if it were possible to combine
input methods.

-- 
Joe


-- 
Heriot-Watt University is a Scottish charity
registered under charity number SC000278.

Message #23 received at 518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andrew Hyatt <ahyatt <at> gmail.com>
To: coriordan <at> vorcha.compsoc.com (Ciaran O'Riordan)
Cc: 518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation
 sequences
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 20:14:10 -0500

I've confirmed that this problem still exists in Emacs 25.

coriordan <at> vorcha.compsoc.com (Ciaran O'Riordan) writes:

> When I set the input method to "dutch", and I type an 's' followed by a comma (which is as common in Dutch as it is in English) I get ş (s with a squiggle).  Further, it seems that all characters that are needed for typing in Turkish have been given a key sequence in the Dutch input method. For someone who just wants to write in Dutch, this is frustrating enough for the dutch input method to be not worth using. 
>
>
> In GNU Emacs 22.1.1 (i486-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.12.9)
>  of 2008-05-03 on terranova, modified by Ubuntu
> configured using `configure  '--build=i486-linux-gnu' '--host=i486-linux-gnu' '--prefix=/usr' '--sharedstatedir=/var/lib' '--libexecdir=/usr/lib' '--localstatedir=/var' '--infodir=/usr/share/info' '--mandir=/usr/share/man' '--with-pop=yes' '--enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs22:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/22.1/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/22.1/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/22.1/leim' '--with-x=yes' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk' 'build_alias=i486-linux-gnu' 'host_alias=i486-linux-gnu' 'CFLAGS=-DDEBIAN -DSITELOAD_PURESIZE_EXTRA=5000 -g -O2' 'LDFLAGS=-g -Wl,--as-needed' 'CPPFLAGS=''
>
> Important settings:
>   value of $LC_ALL: nil
>   value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
>   value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
>   value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
>   value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
>   value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
>   value of $LC_TIME: nil
>   value of $LANG: en_IE.UTF-8 <at> euro
>   locale-coding-system: utf-8
>   default-enable-multibyte-characters: t
>
> Major mode: Group
>
> Minor modes in effect:
>   gnus-undo-mode: t
>   show-paren-mode: t
>   display-time-mode: t
>   encoded-kbd-mode: t
>   tool-bar-mode: t
>   file-name-shadow-mode: t
>   global-font-lock-mode: t
>   font-lock-mode: t
>   unify-8859-on-encoding-mode: t
>   utf-translate-cjk-mode: t
>   auto-compression-mode: t
>   column-number-mode: t
>   line-number-mode: t
>   transient-mark-mode: t
>
> Recent input:
> a v e SPC s o m e SPC s u p p o r t e r s C-p C-e C-f 
> C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f 
> C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-f C-k C-x b RET q g n n n 
> p p RET RET ESC > C-r m i n a RET ESC > C-r i m DEL 
> l h m DEL DEL m h RET ESC > C-r j a p a DEL o n RET 
> q C-x b RET C-x b RET g g p p p p p p p p p n RET RET 
> q g p p p p p p p p p p p RET E E q g n n n RET E q 
> g n n n n n n n n n n n n n n RET RET ESC > q g g p 
> p p p RET E q g g n n p p p p p p p p p p p p p RET 
> RET ESC > C-p C-p RET C-g n C-g q g g g g g g g m C-n 
> C-n C-n C-n C-n C-o C-o C-n ESC x s e t - i n p u TAB 
> RET d u t TAB RET s ; DEL DEL s , C-p C-f C-k C-x k 
> RET y e s RET m C-x k RET ESC x e m a c s - b u TAB 
> TAB TAB DEL DEL DEL DEL TAB TAB ESC DEL b u g TAB TAB 
> TAB C-h a b u g RET C-x o C-v C-v q C-x 0 ESC x e r 
> e DEL DEL DEL r e p o TAB r t TAB RET
>
> Recent messages:
> nnml: Reading incoming mail (no new mail)...done
> Reading active file via nnml...done
> Reading active file from archive via nnfolder...done
> Checking new news...done
> Making completion list...
> Quit
> Loading apropos...done
> Type C-x 1 to remove help window.  
> Making completion list...
> Loading emacsbug...done

Message #26 received at 518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Toon Claes <toon <at> iotcl.com>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>
Cc: 518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation
 sequences
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 22:57:49 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

>>>>> Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org> writes:

>Maybe this should be fixed by separating Dutch and Turkish input methods,
>and implementing a feature to combine two and more input methods for
>those users who need this.

I am native Dutch speaking. And I agree on separating Dutch from
Turkish.
When we are talking about Dutch and Turkish, I do not see any added
value in combining these two input methods. In my opinion there are
completely unrelated.
If combining input methods is interesting for other ones, it is outside
the scope of this bug and is better discussed on the emacs-devel mailing
list.

--
Toon Claes
toon <at> iotcl.com
PGP key fingerprint = AA9A A457 F944 B972 83D4  A177 3114 3A82 D32B 3897

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #29 received at 518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: John Wiegley <jwiegley <at> gmail.com>
To: Toon Claes <toon <at> iotcl.com>
Cc: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>, 518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation
 sequences
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 17:10:38 -0700

>>>>> Toon Claes <toon <at> iotcl.com> writes:

> I am native Dutch speaking. And I agree on separating Dutch from Turkish.

I'm not native speaking, and even I agree.  Why would they be conflated at
all?  Do we need to ship Emacs with a small global map? :)

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

Message #32 received at 518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Toon Claes <toon <at> iotcl.com>
To: John Wiegley <jwiegley <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>, 518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation
 sequences
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 22:36:39 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Tags: patch

I removed the Turkish ligatures from Dutch in the patch attached.

Regards,

Toon Claes
toon <at> iotcl.com
PGP key fingerprint = AA9A A457 F944 B972 83D4  A177 3114 3A82 D32B 3897

[0001-Fix-Bug-518.patch (application/octet-stream, attachment)]

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, attachment)]

Message #35 received at 518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: npostavs <at> users.sourceforge.net
To: Toon Claes <toon <at> iotcl.com>
Cc: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>, John Wiegley <jwiegley <at> gmail.com>,
 518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation
 sequences
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2017 13:17:42 -0500

tags 518 patch
quit

>
> From 7d823da136832a59f91c90cc2136ed7bb1523ae0 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> From: Toon Claes <toon <at> iotcl.com>
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 22:30:38 +0200
> Subject: [PATCH] Fix Bug#518

It seems this patch was forgotten.  I don't know much about input
methods, but the patch looks trivially correct.  Any reason not to
apply?

Toon do you have a copyright assignment?  I assume not, there's no need
since the patch only removes code...

>
> * lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el: Remove Turkish ligatures from Dutch
>   input method.
> ---
>  lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el | 13 +------------
>  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 12 deletions(-)
>
> diff --git a/lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el b/lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el
> index 30df9ac..5e644ed 100644
> --- a/lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el
> +++ b/lisp/leim/quail/latin-alt.el
> @@ -1152,7 +1152,7 @@ Doubling the postfix separates the letter and postfix: e.g. a^^ -> a^
>  (quail-define-package
>   "dutch" "Dutch" "NL" t
>   "Dutch character mixfix input method.
> -Caters for French and Turkish as well as Dutch.
> +Caters for French and Dutch.
>  
>               |         | examples
>   ------------+---------+----------
> @@ -1163,8 +1163,6 @@ Caters for French and Turkish as well as Dutch.
>    acute      |    \\='    | a\\=' -> �
>    grave      |    \\=`    | a\\=` -> �
>    circumflex |    ^    | a^ -> �
> -  Turkish    | various | i/ -> �  s, -> �  g^ -> �   I/ -> �
> -             |         |  S, -> �  G^ -> �
>   ------------+---------+----------
>               | prefix  |
>   ------------+---------+----------
> @@ -1226,15 +1224,6 @@ Doubling the postfix separates the letter and postfix: e.g. a\\='\\=' -> a\\='
>   ("I^" ?�) ;; LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH CIRCUMFLEX
>   ("O^" ?�) ;; LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH CIRCUMFLEX
>   ("U^" ?�) ;; LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH CIRCUMFLEX
> - ;; ��Follow the example of the Dutch POSIX locale, using ISO-8859-9 to
> - ;; cater to the many Turks in Dutch society.��  Perhaps German methods
> - ;; should do so too.  Follow turkish-alt-postfix here.
> - ("i/" ?�) ;; LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH NO DOT
> - ("s," ?�) ;; LATIN SMALL LETTER S WITH CEDILLA
> - ("g^" ?�) ;; LATIN SMALL LETTER G WITH BREVE
> - ("I/" ?�) ;; LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH DOT ABOVE
> - ("S," ?�) ;; LATIN CAPITAL LETTER S WITH CEDILLA
> - ("G^" ?�) ;; LATIN CAPITAL LETTER G WITH BREVE
>   )
>  
>  ;; Originally from Yudit, discussed with Albertas Agejevas

Message #42 received at 518-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
To: 518-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: Andrew Hyatt <ahyatt <at> gmail.com>, Toon Claes <toon <at> iotcl.com>,
 Ciaran O'Riordan <coriordan <at> vorcha.compsoc.com>,
 npostavs <at> users.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation
 sequences
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 06:04:52 -0700

> It seems this patch was forgotten.  I don't know much about input
> methods, but the patch looks trivially correct.  Any reason not to
> apply?

I don't see one. I applied the patch to Emacs master. Thanks, Toon.

Message #45 received at 518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
To: James Cloos <cloos <at> jhcloos.com>
Cc: 518 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#518: Dutch input method flooded with Turkish conversation
 sequences
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 06:24:06 -0700

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

> On that front, the ij (ij) and IJ (IJ) ligs are not really used.  (They
> are only in the UCS for compatability with legacy encodings.)
> 
> They should not be part of the default input method.

Thanks, good point. I installed the attached.

[0001-Do-not-convert-ij-and-IJ-to-compatibility-chars.patch (text/x-patch, attachment)]

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