From unknown Sun Jun 22 08:10:57 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#51595: 26.3; Face attribute value `unspecified' in `defface' breaks Customize UI Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2021 21:10:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 51595 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 51595@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: "bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.163597379031501 (code B ref -1); Wed, 03 Nov 2021 21:10:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Nov 2021 21:09:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41389 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1miNW2-0008C1-Cn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Nov 2021 17:09:50 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:34440) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1miNW1-0008Bu-Fm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) emacs -Q (defface foo '((t :background "LightBlue")) "DOC ..." :group 'faces) (defface bar '((t :foreground unspecified :background "LightBlue")) "DOC..." :group 'faces) `M-x customize-face foo' shows the UI for the attributes of the face. `M-x customize-face bar' shows only the Lisp value of the face spec. A user has no way to get from there to showing all of the attributes. There's no way to edit the face. The doc (Elisp manual) draws no such distinction - speaks of no such limitation. It just lists `unspecified' as one of the possible face attributes: "Apart from the values given below, each face attribute can have the value 'unspecified'." This looks like a lacuna in the UI. You can specify `unspecified' in a `defface', and the face is perfectly usable and well-defined, but users can't edit it - can't manipulate its attributes. In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-08-29 Repository revision: 96dd0196c28bc36779584e47fffcca433c9309cd Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.19042 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=3Dx86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=3D-O2 -static -g3'' From unknown Sun Jun 22 08:10:57 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#51595: 26.3; Face attribute value `unspecified' in `defface' breaks Customize UI Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2021 22:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 51595 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Drew Adams Cc: 51595@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 51595-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B51595.16359776555299 (code B ref 51595); Wed, 03 Nov 2021 22:15:02 +0000 Received: (at 51595) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Nov 2021 22:14:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41445 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1miOWB-0001N8-Vr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Nov 2021 18:14:15 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f178.google.com ([209.85.215.178]:33515) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1miOWA-0001MQ-71 for 51595@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 03 Nov 2021 18:14:02 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f178.google.com with SMTP id r28so3637911pga.0 for <51595@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 03 Nov 2021 15:14:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KQaFMr/d9FFMSErHjy4Xatn23J1mcnLSev3Ppprl3FI=; b=J97iYvyfaYdz18PeWeR85qRTv8+rk+GBuPVXWsi1n23C9Pi5O/utj8LXyI+UdciTeN VR5imnhjRvVhZjJQFqVos9pXzmXzzstjwYUZPpvYR7nlIAMCPyo5TlXcaYBGyDe/6dc5 uq5U0xK8oQZ7fETekRK1uxia+9AGBOCG571yO7IoQ4nZJA9c9tsmUQQ86hAwCU469Vqa yf7JD3Xl7plLrjvhk/nufJ+XLDyKRHtj4EiUAgucOPJduqXYPQFsIf+WV3fjv4oyMprV gR+6bJiYz2JbpqzAMN9uReISXHQ9oX2HNok/Uj5LSqmilHep6n+2cVlstKMElB33+PgE ssBQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530nTdLfpk8jSPEcVc5bfIpJmLEXZi/yTKpNNL7hsG/yYzECYAWM QNL7bGhqkhu3zIaKAtko4AnS7uPZWEXbzH3PeCM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwoU1bdm1KE/s7ak2yeJL2w09Yf2LGMKdrpJRA4YLL2LE6NaZ/Am8XWS4Vkdvy2DStUBRQAo9RbcvUMOAI7qCU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:244d:b0:44d:c279:5155 with SMTP id d13-20020a056a00244d00b0044dc2795155mr47182266pfj.0.1635977636469; Wed, 03 Nov 2021 15:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 3 Nov 2021 15:13:56 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 3 Nov 2021 21:09:41 +0000") References: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 15:13:56 -0700 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) tags 51595 + confirmed found 51595 29.0.50 thanks Drew Adams writes: > emacs -Q > > (defface foo '((t :background "LightBlue")) "DOC ..." :group 'faces) > (defface bar '((t :foreground unspecified :background "LightBlue")) > "DOC..." :group 'faces) > > `M-x customize-face foo' shows the UI for the attributes of the face. > > `M-x customize-face bar' shows only the Lisp value of the face spec. A > user has no way to get from there to showing all of the attributes. > There's no way to edit the face. > > The doc (Elisp manual) draws no such distinction - speaks of no such > limitation. It just lists `unspecified' as one of the possible face > attributes: > > "Apart from the values given below, each face attribute can have the > value 'unspecified'." (That's in (info "(elisp) Face Attributes").) > This looks like a lacuna in the UI. You can specify `unspecified' in a > `defface', and the face is perfectly usable and well-defined, but users > can't edit it - can't manipulate its attributes. I can reproduce this on current master. From unknown Sun Jun 22 08:10:57 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#51595: 26.3; Face attribute value `unspecified' in `defface' breaks Customize UI Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2021 06:51:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 51595 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: confirmed To: Drew Adams Cc: 51595@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 51595-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B51595.163600860216829 (code B ref 51595); Thu, 04 Nov 2021 06:51:01 +0000 Received: (at 51595) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Nov 2021 06:50:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41863 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1miWZW-0004NJ-EK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 02:50:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54176) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1miWZV-0004Mo-1P for 51595@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 02:50:01 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:56428) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1miWZP-00082D-MH; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 02:49:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=fRdeoral7bx8LHtiExIuj1idFfUP3l4/XPasrhxb+tQ=; b=oatuKLVZ8+IW 51y31UIK2MaW8VG/0Qp+2NXM+UctBsAYZxUiTsTjojeMMpRa+dsHPDXpNk0tTQMVEfcVF3bZfOR84 iBd8zu2hfU6kq9WLJGXO3NEp7ax0CWJpP8p6xJLjwVSXVIrHCNN0WsQnKI3lKDqkp1t3mlOjXGwPl ST1e0zNil94cGPXJPwIzeEAapBrDhpdAa1TR1N4yZ213Wh/dyLANZb+lmvAb6TljFQp4C4x+WepGs YjzOytl1fXYUwlWWgmxtgGYc+o/4t3xf9Trz1ePraSJFvcVjoKfmQfLeIJAZNhMi5c3mQlmfUIq3G Qon+TMLK5OGthCW1uq/Mdw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4829 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1miWZP-0007hE-5c; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 02:49:55 -0400 Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2021 08:49:54 +0200 Message-Id: <83wnlofm99.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 3 Nov 2021 21:09:41 +0000) References: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 21:09:41 +0000 > > emacs -Q > > (defface foo '((t :background "LightBlue")) "DOC ..." :group 'faces) > (defface bar '((t :foreground unspecified :background "LightBlue")) > "DOC..." :group 'faces) Don't do that. Using 'unspecified' in user code is an error. Patches to the docs to that effect are welcome. > The doc (Elisp manual) draws no such distinction - speaks of no such > limitation. It just lists `unspecified' as one of the possible face > attributes: > > "Apart from the values given below, each face attribute can have the > value 'unspecified'." "Can have" is a notice to Lisp programmers to expect such a value, it is not an invitation to use it in defface or any other face specs. the correct way of not specifying a value is to use nil or (better) not to mention the attribute at all. Think about how Emacs merges faces, and you will understand why. From unknown Sun Jun 22 08:10:57 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#51595: 26.3; Face attribute value `unspecified' in `defface' breaks Customize UI Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2021 18:00:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 51595 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: confirmed To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: 51595@debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams Received: via spool by 51595-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B51595.163604874916307 (code B ref 51595); Thu, 04 Nov 2021 18:00:02 +0000 Received: (at 51595) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Nov 2021 17:59:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43366 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mih13-0004Ew-9b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 13:59:09 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:57732) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mih10-0004EQ-UT for 51595@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 13:59:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=P9h7vIhmj1kBcYel+OD1b7XeyTZWfFHEOxpZ1g/DjX4=; b=PHZUFW7Gya0tKYuSgEz6NQNKye nR1MsXoRapejaLC6cnPrdyVC//g0eeog/8SMy8pKY3NTn8U4lQJLS6xi3hmyYeD0urNKX2Jfcgz25 10fZ/4ljXB74R1rekah9mjdG8T2iW3s4qoa/l1eofdiVsBEAkCcQPzWb09c6rN0VNFKc=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mih0r-0005FG-Db; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 18:59:00 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <83wnlofm99.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: Orange's _Orange_: "Starwheel" Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2021 18:58:54 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83wnlofm99.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 04 Nov 2021 08:49:54 +0200") Message-ID: <877ddnu7j5.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > "Can have" is a notice to Lisp programmers to expect such a value, it > is not an invitation to use it in defface or any other face specs. So I've now mentioned this in the manual, and I'm therefore closing this bug report. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > "Can have" is a notice to Lisp programmers to expect such a value, it > is not an invitation to use it in defface or any other face specs. So I've now mentioned this in the manual, and I'm therefore closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Nov 04 13:59:12 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Nov 2021 17:59:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43369 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mih16-0004FD-IG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 13:59:12 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:57752) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mih14-0004Ek-V6 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 13:59:11 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=73hypOufCMPP4c+RyefPaIksQDKCkN37pmVwYsR+pRA=; b=cp1aWSKnwWxPneA+C9bYJ7hJtD t7+ChwnnqBEkKOVdP52ykHtf+S/eDZR/+h2aL6+bgEnuKT08uBPQnFX2sxG9T1fT8CTBY9vsNWKKc ME8biWgiTBdrGdTHNlff9p02Sa2Eyyajccb9rR8N2KKW5dk69GshgcP6tiHQxwok/mcw=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mih0x-0005FT-3Z for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 18:59:05 +0100 Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2021 18:59:02 +0100 Message-Id: <875yt7u7ix.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #51595 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: close 51595 29.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) close 51595 29.1 quit