From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 29 13:59:28 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2021 17:59:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55838 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mgWA3-0005rz-Qu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 13:59:28 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:43752) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mgWA1-0005rq-L6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 13:59:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37304) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mgWA1-0004BL-Ah for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 13:59:25 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f173.google.com ([209.85.214.173]:35341) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mgW9z-0000BS-SY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 13:59:25 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f173.google.com with SMTP id n18so7344247plc.2 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 10:59:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:references:mime-version:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=cvGUg1PaJi1ZCpmJoCgDJhPcKKYFhJdjQZANfc0vnT8=; b=fMQY9uizmX4MHmV6qfvT9lg3toVXaTN4J6ZlsRgjzWhhF7bDF4G1loFvgUhUCrXN25 5eZz+tvR9tTa8duUPIA1knCLQGmgnMCRxiM6FesEmSJIxQH3pWk0Ke5eIezKrfOJqupa g2/UiMUhyhs/BtIGzPKWrEuUC8zdPYqdS+lOb6TTVkUh4lKzlvB63YZ79+RA9Os6FVGQ m/6h/7gcHRyH1syN1LINQIUK2y+0P1sjQzaQRIT7TFqWh1vPzknfZmvhQmoNxs5ULhWg Zv5c/lwc7HKfPL6EmAXCW/U9GIKAe6QpMjaz3ehXnki8But9snFCgfdIMJSiU6zaRK+1 esdA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531yyEC3Bm9Gb21MEyPh9XOURvZBLhpQrnYaDIeUDAwtj4pXYHsP DYXD6kZSklTuXc6l3CjzD/P1ICY5uPaH10W9U9J7Laye X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy5XYKZL+Cx2oTR9TxE/TpzV3+9zQLnpDXkkEML2n5BzH2MVVJ7xmjRqr/RAFAaRVcrICHVfnB9y8tpAzlYzWk= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:3b86:: with SMTP id pc6mr21101293pjb.143.1635530362246; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 10:59:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 10:59:21 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas References: <83pmrw5hfs.fsf@gnu.org> <875ytmbnk2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y26i34e1.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnm27b57.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfwq75q4.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnm22q7y.fsf@gnus.org> <83ee8a2pm7.fsf@gnu.org> <87fssq2orj.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmru18xg.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf2i18pv.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7d618j7.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl3e2m1y.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> X-Debbugs-Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2021 10:59:21 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.214.173; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-f173.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) Severity: wishlist (This is a follow-up to Bug#19776.) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Stefan Kangas writes: > >> I was talking about showing something in the actual Emacs window, not >> just changing the mouse pointer. The mouse pointer can change also when >> some program has just crashed, so users won't necessarily take this as a >> sign that "everything is okay, just give us a minute and we'll be back". > > And there's no hourglass pointer in terminal Emacs (which apparently is > almost as popular as GUI Emacs for some reason), so perhaps it's worth > having a spinning thing somewhere. In the mode line, for instance. > > However, if we want that, perhaps it shouldn't be tied to > with-delayed-message, but work exactly like the hourglass -- i.e., start > spinning whenever Emacs is busy for a while. > > I'm not at all sure whether there'd be any negative repercussions to > spinning a glyph in the mode line area (for instance -- what about if > you're running over a slow ssh connection?), but perhaps it's worth > exploring and see how goes? Let's continue discussing this as a new bug. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 30 08:40:15 2021 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Oct 2021 12:40:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56846 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mgneg-0001l6-Pv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Oct 2021 08:40:14 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:57450) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mgnee-0001kk-4r for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Oct 2021 08:40:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Cd90Q29rCQjYzkSaRbAlrakB+mpeaEP4Zt0f/Wql4g0=; b=AILkPfp12Xd7zDuR7vC38su0D+ FGsPzEugz1/YrOYXRmUcnIZ/Vcq8YxGiwqKJYkzwyLuhaoHnzteBQuulA7s9e2h5sA9WhbHwPD3g4 fUWgLGiqPLQK1gueo+Uka0nnp75IsDDyHuDOdQdKq0l9MbS2B89kBJbWOa+CV0lzVS/g=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mgneV-0001MG-4h; Sat, 30 Oct 2021 14:40:05 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window References: <83pmrw5hfs.fsf@gnu.org> <875ytmbnk2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y26i34e1.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnm27b57.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfwq75q4.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnm22q7y.fsf@gnus.org> <83ee8a2pm7.fsf@gnu.org> <87fssq2orj.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmru18xg.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf2i18pv.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7d618j7.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl3e2m1y.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> X-Now-Playing: Tyme's _To the Dawn_: "Don't Tell Me" Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 14:40:02 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Fri, 29 Oct 2021 10:59:21 -0700") Message-ID: <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: >> I'm not at all sure whether there'd be any negative repercussions to >> spinning a glyph in the mode line area (for instance -- what about if >> you're running over a slow ssh connection?), but per [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Kangas writes: >> I'm not at all sure whether there'd be any negative repercussions to >> spinning a glyph in the mode line area (for instance -- what about if >> you're running over a slow ssh connection?), but perhaps it's worth >> exploring and see how goes? > > Let's continue discussing this as a new bug. I wonder whether this could be implemented by modifying the glyphs in the mode line directly instead of going through the entire mode line machinery (for efficiency). I was thinking we'd designate (say) the first (or last) displayed position on the mode line as "the spinner" (and restore the previous glyph there after finishing spinning, of course). -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 19 16:16:59 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Sep 2022 20:16:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55372 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oaNCN-0003nM-3y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 16:16:59 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:37786) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oaNCL-0003n7-1v for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 16:16:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=XRfB6++Zck1PVmE6Ymb9hhXwZmS85ldhac94wmWw4+Y=; b=SbqhVi6PNBOT6iaJqbBJJDaN3w XT5Ny5lVoemRi04SoC0dcYrzNuyZWfgkgCz9JQfetXomROjxUXwBRLgTOFYVc5vyerKN/XWwNMIqO 4h8aWUp19lrjwZgTJPGCffV3yTBFL1Yi26oLTtgu3DABhAC7iv/WLZTP0dxVgz3ZF/8U=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oaNCC-0003gH-FU; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 22:16:50 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window In-Reply-To: <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 30 Oct 2021 14:40:02 +0200") References: <875ytmbnk2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y26i34e1.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnm27b57.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfwq75q4.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnm22q7y.fsf@gnus.org> <83ee8a2pm7.fsf@gnu.org> <87fssq2orj.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmru18xg.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf2i18pv.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7d618j7.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl3e2m1y.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> X-Now-Playing: Akkord 's _#savefabric (11) (Mixed by Second Storey)_: "Scalar Wave" Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 22:16:48 +0200 Message-ID: <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: >>> I'm not at all sure whether there'd be any negative repercussions to >>> spinning a glyph in the mode line area (for instance -- what about if >>> you're running over a slow ssh connection?), but [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: 'Eli Zaretskii' , 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: >>> I'm not at all sure whether there'd be any negative repercussions to >>> spinning a glyph in the mode line area (for instance -- what about if >>> you're running over a slow ssh connection?), but perhaps it's worth >>> exploring and see how goes? >> >> Let's continue discussing this as a new bug. > > I wonder whether this could be implemented by modifying the glyphs in > the mode line directly instead of going through the entire mode line > machinery (for efficiency). I was thinking we'd designate (say) the > first (or last) displayed position on the mode line as "the spinner" > (and restore the previous glyph there after finishing spinning, of > course). Eli, does this seem like feasible approach to you? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 20 07:36:29 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Sep 2022 11:36:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56357 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oabY5-0000eg-Tn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Sep 2022 07:36:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51614) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oabY3-0000eS-PY for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 20 Sep 2022 07:36:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52548) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oabXy-0001M4-Hq; Tue, 20 Sep 2022 07:36:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Jr6mwE6zPE+26hgbbpupnLpzjuEtIKtF1kfDCYK3ow8=; b=YL7LqXNcXjkg 50auLGCXR1Mdl5YI7Uxvpk7ryE0rUV02B7JdnTejsFtvrpDUkpdn+OV4xIbE9Cnfy1wGZxpwtnyYr i4KdXZv6fu8/U/ai4FwyUT98p8O5pZl/Ah9APDfGdrl5r7Bg0q1pNze0mr0HCyVZey2vRkwdEjYaN ZZuErhWNsLFaJYQWD/qXf169wmhlRoAbx63+yX5YCwK5F/vJnnIoB2TRhKry8yPiFyIOcqRunLRTr PA8j+ILu/3skNG6uinuUiOjxdyGN2GXe5DvFuF8stq7cpGBbWdrctQmereyIfvyUqADwDgySsJYAH 0WkryDV9iKXDuPAuBd8g2A==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2788 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oabXj-00056m-Q0; Tue, 20 Sep 2022 07:36:13 -0400 Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 14:36:06 +0300 Message-Id: <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Mon, 19 Sep 2022 22:16:48 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window References: <875ytmbnk2.fsf@gnus.org> <83y26i34e1.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnm27b57.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfwq75q4.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnm22q7y.fsf@gnus.org> <83ee8a2pm7.fsf@gnu.org> <87fssq2orj.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmru18xg.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf2i18pv.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7d618j7.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl3e2m1y.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: 51490@debbugs.gnu.org, "'Eli Zaretskii'" > Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 22:16:48 +0200 > > Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > > >>> I'm not at all sure whether there'd be any negative repercussions to > >>> spinning a glyph in the mode line area (for instance -- what about if > >>> you're running over a slow ssh connection?), but perhaps it's worth > >>> exploring and see how goes? > >> > >> Let's continue discussing this as a new bug. > > > > I wonder whether this could be implemented by modifying the glyphs in > > the mode line directly instead of going through the entire mode line > > machinery (for efficiency). I was thinking we'd designate (say) the > > first (or last) displayed position on the mode line as "the spinner" > > (and restore the previous glyph there after finishing spinning, of > > course). > > Eli, does this seem like feasible approach to you? I'm not sure I understand the problem and the proposed solution. Are we talking about having a spinning character, like | / - \, in the mode lines of a window on TTY frames? If so, what are you trying to save by "modifying the glyphs directly", and why do you think doing so will produce some savings, as opposed to just update the mode line normally? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 21 07:06:36 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Sep 2022 11:06:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60848 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oaxYp-0005ko-Vp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 07:06:36 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:35560) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oaxYo-0005kc-9u for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 07:06:34 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=A/wFe93xgYTcWrnjZthdtxH2Tbr/soVbUW32+J2spgQ=; b=NjgLgvl0uGIXDXzmnCKCUFLEcH 18HxjIQnVG6d+yu7c+sFraPQv6Q6lUwpCLtNGr+LydWq4eeOCVFDIqyMf1+EVPMTykuSFkU/k4z2M WUzumXQ8uDCZXTh/VlDMdnRqm7855VFUsHWJw5if88nMO+zTAX6pCXdPs6WlPD0GKYsk=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oaxYg-000471-5Z; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 13:06:28 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window In-Reply-To: <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 20 Sep 2022 14:36:06 +0300") References: <87wnm27b57.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfwq75q4.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnm22q7y.fsf@gnus.org> <83ee8a2pm7.fsf@gnu.org> <87fssq2orj.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmru18xg.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf2i18pv.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7d618j7.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl3e2m1y.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: Espen Reinertsen's _Forgaflingspop_: "Grov =?utf-8?Q?h?= =?utf-8?Q?=C3=B8st=22?= Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 13:06:25 +0200 Message-ID: <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'm not sure I understand the problem and the proposed solution. Are > we talking about having a spinning character, like | / - \, in the > mode lines of a window on TTY frames? Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'm not sure I understand the problem and the proposed solution. Are > we talking about having a spinning character, like | / - \, in the > mode lines of a window on TTY frames? Yes -- but not just on TTY frames, but on GUI frames, too (for those that want that). > If so, what are you trying to save by "modifying the glyphs directly", > and why do you think doing so will produce some savings, as opposed to > just update the mode line normally? Because this will be happening from an alarm while Lisp code is running, and we can't run other Lisp code while that is happening. So we have to modify the mode line directly from the C function called by the alarm, I think? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 21 07:49:37 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Sep 2022 11:49:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60968 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oayET-0002tn-I2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 07:49:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54588) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oayEQ-0002ta-QY for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 07:49:35 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47154) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oayEK-0001rp-6b; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 07:49:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=LMDmUuRNzgjfOaNVifAvq7T7zBuqwh6UCQrs3OkQC7Y=; b=IaqiL3XdwUVw nwf7SClj9KZ6VnojKYGQTiOSkcYe3tejjYkXcpVlhnldceCBp+BxFXI97v1QLm6Y3QRYyZ2xzfOZJ 3JIApWXxHeYmuU9sGOC0yC4sdweiSsq+NfIwzBgsAYG33CZqL7oCd9E8IN75MpmC8/Rg22JN1CTA0 1RRy63Ljb28Cpa4Q/f+rKO9eSpuAhpScCjctJxZRJIpAMsQYevrOP64u6smxwtIwT3Dkh88h7q8Zi vTfcXrSO9aJsmdmrD7W25bPcJSgMfH/fp2aif/5hmfiqS12et8qusQXbJ9az4tw/j3etx0+/rRrdn Zumq191CdO3BJuulEsk3MQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4318 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oayEJ-0002d7-L9; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 07:49:27 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 14:49:35 +0300 Message-Id: <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Wed, 21 Sep 2022 13:06:25 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window References: <87wnm27b57.fsf@gnus.org> <87sfwq75q4.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnm22q7y.fsf@gnus.org> <83ee8a2pm7.fsf@gnu.org> <87fssq2orj.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmru18xg.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf2i18pv.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7d618j7.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl3e2m1y.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 13:06:25 +0200 > > > If so, what are you trying to save by "modifying the glyphs directly", > > and why do you think doing so will produce some savings, as opposed to > > just update the mode line normally? > > Because this will be happening from an alarm while Lisp code is running, > and we can't run other Lisp code while that is happening. Mode line is drawn in C, not in Lisp. And if the problem is that we cannot run the display code, either, then how would it help to poke the glyph? It won't be shown on the glass, because redisplay cannot run. Right? Or what am I missing? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 21 08:01:25 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Sep 2022 12:01:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32777 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oayPt-0005Qe-Dx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 08:01:25 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:37396) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oayPr-0005QQ-IL for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 08:01:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=23EzuNCm3lau0oZ4Fymlen+UteYDMVuHj7CkGsIFdD8=; b=aKQkp/ntQgRCPAWX7Ygexvod4N vgjVzjykbWiCUuTPHUoEDxvwx1D04Z7pTv0GfjTM5s21/32Vvv3GKbq0Ax+foJ1+f2e4arn1mdmKv FGSCVvgqju9AT2GjSj3bV/8hwBNQe57L7QyKCQkK/XcfXK0B5LbagVEM0H7HscleGLTI=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oayPj-0004oX-4R; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 14:01:17 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window In-Reply-To: <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 21 Sep 2022 14:49:35 +0300") References: <87wnm22q7y.fsf@gnus.org> <83ee8a2pm7.fsf@gnu.org> <87fssq2orj.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmru18xg.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf2i18pv.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7d618j7.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl3e2m1y.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEWkRUzBsbE5Jiv/ //9EG+24AAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+YJFQs7EqVA5nIAAAGjSURBVCjPPZIxa+NAEIVH IgrBlTCWCamSFIe8v2IJOIUrWewITlWK5Ej0K4SwDuHqcpxNksoRkVm9X3mzkslW+82w7808lqYN Lq8vJ7+r+FBSut1O2zccYduSzNXHvH1/OFaLdkP+G+ZoblsAByLywwsi/I2pJPKIdJD3MxpPqGfo H4crU7QsYL9IE635LEoBy1IViFiUOtYCHge5QD8AMeffHQEjwMtE7hEzrwsrpaEhp+hMZMgfwWzM PghPHa6f9gHrE3TP97WAE1jw02KAQKA9MM5ZwGO+24LT0ml7zlS9ZrsT8AqvTmV0zeFkdprCtXnR q4ifYRMy+UZdmGGnhMK0RsOcQeEPUWaxcwAcic56Jc//KbQSoqd6aezc6g5ks6wWsGJUyCR+54IQ 05eAJxgh5J8sJnU6whBPlygnwEuWam8UIoGAV19xw/iciJpXx2w+9sjgwCU4R60GuHUaNnc+RL8q AZnnWgR0al3CWzcN6ysbcHYIaSmmeopPgzoRkM456pUNJAGiGf2wdzYmvyGS33ETwaqyssNP6Aso 1VZQ/wGiGsRQg+CqXwAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0wOS0yMVQxMTo1OToxOCswMDow MLRFwnsAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDktMjFUMTE6NTk6MTgrMDA6MDDFGHrHAAAA AElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: The Waitresses's _Wasn't Tomorrow Wonderful?_: "No Guilt" Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 14:01:13 +0200 Message-ID: <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Mode line is drawn in C, not in Lisp. > > And if the problem is that we cannot run the display code, either, > then how would it help to poke the glyph? It won't be shown on the > glass, because red [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > Mode line is drawn in C, not in Lisp. > > And if the problem is that we cannot run the display code, either, > then how would it help to poke the glyph? It won't be shown on the > glass, because redisplay cannot run. Right? Or what am I missing? Redisplay can run, but we can't run any Lisp code, and the normal formatting of a mode line does (potentially) run lots of Lisp code, doesn't it? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 21 08:34:59 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Sep 2022 12:34:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32860 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oaywM-0006IZ-Vl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 08:34:59 -0400 Received: from mail-ot1-f51.google.com ([209.85.210.51]:43779) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oaywL-0006IN-TD for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 08:34:58 -0400 Received: by mail-ot1-f51.google.com with SMTP id cm7-20020a056830650700b006587fe87d1aso3812795otb.10 for <51490@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 05:34:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=TcvcSpKW0j5KKH9oxNKkoOYlzE2UyuCrecuN+pCL30o=; b=KvwaGVntlhnUBV0Z1SoX7TKvJFTZW5v4M03+oNf+XZ+o2Gzz+PwLub6BhY1z/PCWvn EoZXtDws+EbtSlDg2tfV6q+mbylcE18v3j9YwrxktiuTGBoWTMjuzzZAH0fW3PZ97UyH vWnaEPbTCzn6AZ+E5H6jR3NvOq3koH8naTQZPW4TJ94JQQzGevnmuN5XCIT3dvotBgB0 tgiP09Qz+2pm5lTgnSISTAgr7ea/QGc0wERyKlYDBlqEwdtbQu2wglzvEuzcxpFmz9V/ 9krQr0nJWXOalye9p7XXicRDu1r4T7ngqPUAjG3s6BHI/yvXD+VGU3ABt0A8EJJi+t28 td8Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=TcvcSpKW0j5KKH9oxNKkoOYlzE2UyuCrecuN+pCL30o=; b=IS9BnA51fIw+NxA4TfrChO6ZYIVSKu2c7YcmJv1eotHCQ47+sq8ftJdFIGlk/sazco qE9JR2s2o5DEJ4VGQCtqAXTeUgFyr90m12CYmOXFyJV4ZU2gA7gNh3V96BRItr2Ygsus RHKHXKHAezj4wgde9lzHlCdLBvJvlJ5vL/e1ZVtNHmrdg4WpB3byjozWUvgwI4I2JlM+ p8Jg0Ng9H4OgJ2VFfsohl/BpCk3tRTy0BKR/q7yTUcTs8A9g94XZwrQfEKPlDNCQC4S5 P5eEIPHN6wIes6hoFiJo1vDR8Hr9YdTMaYL9cs7CZK0EerIdQMniFgT6QfUzUghRcruv PaUw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf2jI6gXGfiurIz13jhcS4/U/Dj9uJ3uBS1+A2wwNMiUEgOfD9Xk kjRWmae2iCL8CBJgnseSykHeHmD9hnG1jYltllQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM5QCkt/oV27J1ej1UQ3BvpAXsMBpKXfGgyU0cynpJRRwvquB/oMDBIM2EZx1oiXsDNDHAenJbc9rm0sHojMg4g= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:3c1:b0:637:28be:7920 with SMTP id p1-20020a05683003c100b0063728be7920mr11996204otc.105.1663763692337; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 05:34:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 05:34:51 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87wnm22q7y.fsf@gnus.org> <83ee8a2pm7.fsf@gnu.org> <87fssq2orj.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmru18xg.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf2i18pv.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7d618j7.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl3e2m1y.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> X-Hashcash: 1:20:220921:51490@debbugs.gnu.org::LvBV0UV3KdLH4pBg:3lqr MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 05:34:51 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >> Mode line is drawn in C, not in Lisp. >> >> And if the problem is that we cannot run the display code, either, >> then how would it help to poke the glyph? It won't be shown on the >> glass, because redisplay cannot run. Right? Or what am I missing? > > Redisplay can run, but we can't run any Lisp code, and the normal > formatting of a mode line does (potentially) run lots of Lisp code, > doesn't it? BTW, I think one goal here should be to optionally replace the glyph with a sequence of images/icons (preferably SVG files). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 21 09:05:49 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Sep 2022 13:05:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32914 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oazQD-00076s-I6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 09:05:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51446) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oazQB-00076e-6G for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 09:05:48 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45318) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oazQ4-00019I-H2; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 09:05:41 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=ZP9fdMvMWVyzHtgLCdY4h5m9lZr5V7fJ7u2uJfET14I=; b=eyWLsBd09Vaj 3tJzQLMqyUMSGGkbwsgN3CR4lR1ESkLzV/HsZ169etxf1c7UC7m+hOhylC/vG5BoPYMgCPQSsVgAz dvCjVE5Qk2pLjAzSd1v+nWbwHwkq8Ddcp53C37DrYsP72yoTtfSlZ+egcX0UiNIRYNPh7SVs/PAXf XA2dCR3qpGVZj9JVLiqei5tEdwJIkAKJln69h0RFVz6Qpn5MZb0Eb7//yOmSKMAZ+m86d8xDeHY/k V4BQhD4YYQ8IY8tsye3KYYDlVWok7GfD17y8/OMK+71Pk39/iJHqV/aEITWfwbYltn7jv6axm+Yw5 Q95LyrP7ZRBD2aj6I4rOGA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4977 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oazPZ-00052V-4n; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 09:05:32 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 16:05:17 +0300 Message-Id: <83bkr8vpwy.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Wed, 21 Sep 2022 14:01:13 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window References: <87wnm22q7y.fsf@gnus.org> <83ee8a2pm7.fsf@gnu.org> <87fssq2orj.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmru18xg.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf2i18pv.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7d618j7.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl3e2m1y.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 14:01:13 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Mode line is drawn in C, not in Lisp. > > > > And if the problem is that we cannot run the display code, either, > > then how would it help to poke the glyph? It won't be shown on the > > glass, because redisplay cannot run. Right? Or what am I missing? > > Redisplay can run, but we can't run any Lisp code, and the normal > formatting of a mode line does (potentially) run lots of Lisp code, > doesn't it? That's true, but if Lisp cannot run, neither can redisplay. They both access the internal Emacs state: buffers, variables, etc. Even to replace a single glyph, you'd need to access faces, right? Also, poking a single glyph on a GUI frame is unsafe, because no one can be sure the new glyph will have the same metrics as the old one. So I think if we want some kind of feature that displays progress indicator while Emacs is busy, we'd need to develop it. hourglass-cursor just raises a flag and does it only once, so it can run from an atimer. Anything more complex will probably need another Lisp thread, and calls to synchronization functions (sit-for, thread-yield, etc.) from the main thread. Or something. Or maybe we can run some async subprocess which will display some animation? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 21 09:08:40 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Sep 2022 13:08:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32926 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oazSq-0007B8-Ga for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 09:08:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54482) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oazSp-0007Ar-1O for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 09:08:31 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33688) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oazSj-0001SA-S9; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 09:08:25 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=a+lMX1tlijz6ePVtcERomBPO3ZlCv825c0syEtVMNH8=; b=G0o2ZWpX3LSC 3tXfOvhaYs+vjo9SdU8etkCYjTe1SZPwH4AbltIWRWAbVn7Zi/f5+jXpra0eA7FlPz7Zpa7fqM7rh 1a6sUTzHy6feSxlRF+/m0GoQSx1sdfQNb+TWvVEUdpA/0FFB/1i7wCYPjVlmlXuONrrIuGq81B1hH iqWFqkVnGHlx5Jn5BFIccDD8A8rfqHj0HJHM1UtoVgNUsFMFg6OJhyjfxlgNaO7uJaMQIe6oZRIuY 7BmvTPv7nXSAkz6V+3VsqsHcZPijTdZviM8tA+GxK7pz7fZ1I/V8ONvsi/tWphsclMd8FhIkEn5j+ gSOOlHzP68xQmAO2vhWUNQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1207 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oazSj-00041w-A5; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 09:08:25 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 16:08:34 +0300 Message-Id: <83a66svprh.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Wed, 21 Sep 2022 05:34:51 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window References: <87wnm22q7y.fsf@gnus.org> <83ee8a2pm7.fsf@gnu.org> <87fssq2orj.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmru18xg.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf2i18pv.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7d618j7.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl3e2m1y.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 05:34:51 -0700 > Cc: 51490@debbugs.gnu.org > > Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > >> Mode line is drawn in C, not in Lisp. > >> > >> And if the problem is that we cannot run the display code, either, > >> then how would it help to poke the glyph? It won't be shown on the > >> glass, because redisplay cannot run. Right? Or what am I missing? > > > > Redisplay can run, but we can't run any Lisp code, and the normal > > formatting of a mode line does (potentially) run lots of Lisp code, > > doesn't it? > > BTW, I think one goal here should be to optionally replace the glyph > with a sequence of images/icons (preferably SVG files). These are also (special kinds of) glyphs. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 21 09:32:52 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Sep 2022 13:32:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32994 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oazqO-0007qC-Ae for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 09:32:52 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:39694) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oazqM-0007pz-Q0 for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 09:32:51 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=lbK+KUBVVOuoHw3kZBXQ2tOuhWIxs8n569eEBZJfCGg=; b=ci1bhaPXi2W2siNtPPxyep77BO q1N5LIaYJDWeNP17mOPZPDSI2aTuZZboJXA0YIRNfmtzUmY3sBCsDoZehOMGw/qHTKqQPE/n0Cx8x P3BgFur9fP5o9/lyRzELVOJvOmOBHkvcE0uEcekIy8MoEF4oMJVoDhMLY/ZKimI6jT44=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oazqD-0005oP-Ec; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 15:32:43 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window In-Reply-To: <83bkr8vpwy.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 21 Sep 2022 16:05:17 +0300") References: <83ee8a2pm7.fsf@gnu.org> <87fssq2orj.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmru18xg.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf2i18pv.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7d618j7.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl3e2m1y.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> <83bkr8vpwy.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAACVBMVEU2Mjqfi3P///9G gfLxAAAAAWJLR0QCZgt8ZAAAAAd0SU1FB+YJFQ0dLk18ZWMAAAFCSURBVCjPJZJRqkQhDENbuP13 QPdT4frfC83+t/ISHzgzHG1jGsciZ+OkYZvZauzi+sU/HC7sJkRkx3kxJwGGfn7JPZUVItYeEDjg p3/9qOeFf+xnAaH5U/jwPqzrBOZH9SidIM7itxMegEXs8tds1iKi2xYBBK62kXZYcY9sJY32BRht L0dRC5/s0HNLYwuC20nI0j3BZoGm+64SUN5pcSFq3xBEGtI+M84xh8YfpUnXtYXxcASL6ZUJpVMM ZxkSeYtn0IE9pQxsro32Z1wI3lsRW8Q5CDNcTm1fm7HUtGThUEiR8jU+KCWWeSC0mSqjZ8wyd9m9 YeR9DfWtvSvSweGY7UKHSoqfj9Fa+MFryWeXTkpTykziVChUxp42o72m7uF1edp6SATptmE97fBF bEznn0PSTCcHT76SA3nfyDn+ABZobG62Q/ncAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIyLTA5LTIx VDEzOjI5OjQ2KzAwOjAw5f0XigAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0wOS0yMVQxMzoyOTo0 NiswMDowMJSgrzYAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Suicide Romeo's _Pictures_: "Suicide Romeo" Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 15:32:39 +0200 Message-ID: <87bkr8am4o.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > That's true, but if Lisp cannot run, neither can redisplay. They both > access the internal Emacs state: buffers, variables, etc. Even to > replace a single glyph, you'd need to access faces, right? Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > That's true, but if Lisp cannot run, neither can redisplay. They both > access the internal Emacs state: buffers, variables, etc. Even to > replace a single glyph, you'd need to access faces, right? I'm not sure that we have to? That's why I wondered whether we could somehow get away with just altering the glyph matrix... > Also, poking a single glyph on a GUI frame is unsafe, because no one > can be sure the new glyph will have the same metrics as the old one. I was thinking way more primitive than that -- just altering the pixelish data on some level. I.e., I wouldn't want to display the characters | \ etc, but instead some pre-calculated pixel data. But like I said, I'm not sure whether even that is feasible... From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 21 10:01:52 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Sep 2022 14:01:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34878 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ob0IS-0000fD-1T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 10:01:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45258) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ob0IQ-0000ey-Dg for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 10:01:50 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:59710) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ob0IK-000440-Vo; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 10:01:44 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=A0v/wioAZ44e04IUU789Ltw1OSmnHiLr0Ze1pBO5c3A=; b=Evo72QKTXOgq y/LmU+tkVOgU7+R6lwl3bPQINRemOxoVjDxTAsnvChAFoCHB7hmGhhS9VnCStzzoq+u/7w7TT2WwG kW20MnkJGCPf5nROyDfoZL+W4n/KLxzwM2STvyiRqP97DZWPWFvWVhxECQQqgFOSZv9vBMu36j5S+ acNYqa2mL8RtpYlVQKiVuHdqKb5Y6zzlo9m8wONte7J1Dd8c5hn/iETn6kMuUardJ3BXmrowRTsaL tlnI93MA8i+1hrpva0fXxWUIyz1ogm2cUqv0as1EI4GOPbkmPnDvKZcBW4giUS5WCoG/Fnps9sycU nR76LTNCpNo50+ax9T3pcw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4480 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ob0IK-0006gr-2D; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 10:01:44 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 17:01:53 +0300 Message-Id: <834jx0vnam.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87bkr8am4o.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Wed, 21 Sep 2022 15:32:39 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window References: <83ee8a2pm7.fsf@gnu.org> <87fssq2orj.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmru18xg.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf2i18pv.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7d618j7.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl3e2m1y.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> <83bkr8vpwy.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkr8am4o.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 15:32:39 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > That's true, but if Lisp cannot run, neither can redisplay. They both > > access the internal Emacs state: buffers, variables, etc. Even to > > replace a single glyph, you'd need to access faces, right? > > I'm not sure that we have to? That's why I wondered whether we could > somehow get away with just altering the glyph matrix... We barely get away with that on TTY frames (that's how TTY menus are implemented). On GUI frames, I don't think it's feasible, not with the code we have now. As for not accessing any Lisp data: do you really believe our users will let us deprive them of even the minimal customization capabilities, like determining the face of this indicator and how it generally looks? I sincerely doubt that. > > Also, poking a single glyph on a GUI frame is unsafe, because no one > > can be sure the new glyph will have the same metrics as the old one. > > I was thinking way more primitive than that -- just altering the > pixelish data on some level. I.e., I wouldn't want to display the > characters | \ etc, but instead some pre-calculated pixel data. We don't write pixels to the glass, we call GUI APIs to do that. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 21 12:02:16 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Sep 2022 16:02:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35100 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ob2Ay-00061l-MH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 12:02:16 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:52884) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ob2Aw-00061c-8o for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 12:02:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1663776132; bh=yhyxTfz67SLGV3VWrktvwMgdr9wBX3ZhPmtycyKoUKA=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=oYKZwKhGiNJBruT7ytT4vJRdwhlTzuPdx4nmhGnEgv29bPbjWiml2tjUJ4dlbJ4bw i8aJhFeQA+mHI5tIhYPI0Ghu/Sefuygs/HN9oemi7CMC6SX941trIbg4H0l+IJ96p9 fsObr3vXn5KAehKu/x6NU3XXb89CuVDEgTuD2b/G6Nd8KFZiFsxVfFm1zwkg+YZ87e 1h4L8yySY8XXInIsF+9+2Y3tGh2sczT+vABdxGQw/qbnC9yJTpqPx1GV5UDbpzVaXR 5CJubQoyUhY2cfvQie1i5+osjIibilfMRhSoXGPs2c+R1R/7mlrvKV4SpPQLsa+6wo xiCAwRMXU6dpQ== Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 16:02:12 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window In-Reply-To: <834jx0vnam.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <2d1b683c22a3585f038d@heytings.org> References: <83ee8a2pm7.fsf@gnu.org> <87fssq2orj.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmru18xg.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf2i18pv.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7d618j7.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl3e2m1y.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> <83bkr8vpwy.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkr8am4o.fsf@gnus.org> <834jx0vnam.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > > We barely get away with that on TTY frames (that's how TTY menus are > implemented). On GUI frames, I don't think it's feasible, not with the > code we have now. > On GUI frames, can't we do something similar to what we do for fringe bitmaps? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 21 12:21:21 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Sep 2022 16:21:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35110 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ob2TR-0006V8-2B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 12:21:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47974) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ob2TP-0006Ut-6T for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 12:21:19 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34206) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ob2TG-0002dJ-UQ; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 12:21:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=0FeCNq1kJumV4UOS7efM7Lvsk2pB7TIzgfqnEoIsfX4=; b=RrIr1EdUPkh/ JGo9sIk79x6CsBT1w+KZYbvp39uGgkbCEsO6oHmyo0mSdVLpe8j2bAmUQARjYnTnIRWQjpLSEZT82 G2czEHh4vmHJfvwCitJmK1mXlbdT8FQL/6rbneQFWhjhI+LC8lJXeAxF1NAyiO+ZpAePSf/CtJ624 YHgKnRXsntI3M5suF1lwQv4PCwCGnnd8W8Xcw7HFSRoo6VLxaIPZM1v1P5caSwheTY83YYjkweB91 dwzNx9Y0mQ/ZtXYjQ4k+JEdqmvYguo7nvLjI2FMvw6gl6O6YGefq+7GF8CnUAcD1+nyXihvfbMt2o YkOmr16NEHriPapUmfwaLA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1123 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ob2TG-0000ti-Cn; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 12:21:10 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 19:21:18 +0300 Message-Id: <83sfkku29t.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: <2d1b683c22a3585f038d@heytings.org> (message from Gregory Heytings on Wed, 21 Sep 2022 16:02:12 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window References: <83ee8a2pm7.fsf@gnu.org> <87fssq2orj.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmru18xg.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf2i18pv.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7d618j7.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl3e2m1y.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> <83bkr8vpwy.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkr8am4o.fsf@gnus.org> <834jx0vnam.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22a3585f038d@heytings.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 16:02:12 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , stefan@marxist.se, > 51490@debbugs.gnu.org > > On GUI frames, can't we do something similar to what we do for fringe > bitmaps? I'm not sure I follow. Fringe bitmaps are drawn by redisplay, and they do access faces, text properties, overlays,... So how would this solve the problem? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 21 13:11:21 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Sep 2022 17:11:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35151 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ob3Fp-0007mF-L2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 13:11:21 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:52988) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ob3Fn-0007m6-4O for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 13:11:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1663780277; bh=HPSy6bIua/Ikv7ZhlcKYW8aco/kOvu4iZdPTkDF7Pa8=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=bjuQqfBYOyA/VYaVU1xEd2MWdSubBSXsm52dl4ag40X90tbehKA7TQHZtQPXt/zTD ak6xaRzSb8ClJIQVrtjV5So2iLiJz31OezzIt33zyytQ/s60waq+JbXFws4aIPa/75 eYrLtMWvzxTvF5co5Ac7v8f4vNVCbHqZkbId6jRefo+ZMyXqGx4WmOwcME8lZ3UJnK Ici/BzXxt6pkzd70WvHoLKRJMbFlnKiv/PUMRYOnrESg/MyCh8L3QkV+LcTr4sRDCz E4P0NoWfWXPGn5IIZQAoltqtcUZN9ONOiibaSQlKxTpq8zz6LY5KMfiHim/Zrn9f6q AI/pt5xfvEDmA== Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 17:11:17 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window In-Reply-To: <83sfkku29t.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <2d1b683c22d98c9cabd3@heytings.org> References: <83ee8a2pm7.fsf@gnu.org> <87fssq2orj.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmru18xg.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf2i18pv.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7d618j7.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl3e2m1y.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> <83bkr8vpwy.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkr8am4o.fsf@gnus.org> <834jx0vnam.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22a3585f038d@heytings.org> <83sfkku29t.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> On GUI frames, can't we do something similar to what we do for fringe >> bitmaps? > > I'm not sure I follow. Fringe bitmaps are drawn by redisplay, and they > do access faces, text properties, overlays,... So how would this solve > the problem? > Aren't they the simplest graphical element drawn by Emacs, a simple black-and-white bitmap? I don't think a "busy" indicator would have to access faces, text properties and overlays, it could be a simple (list of) black-and-white bitmaps drawn at a fixed position, e.g. on the left of the mode line. The interaction with Lisp would be minimal. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 22 02:28:20 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Sep 2022 06:28:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35956 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obFh5-0007Sl-RF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 02:28:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34860) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obFh4-0007SZ-N9 for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 02:28:19 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:60988) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1obFgz-0006MR-6b; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 02:28:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=gDA/FmbEwEzEwjX1VAYsdzPSFXPHhRlMusaFhHi2nOQ=; b=QG56FyIHOOx2 sU85Je63iAqa/fASwE+gGtc/UVpX0EioFtBszMzuTv7ZmuX2qRBH1kftQs8gLDgfCu/1ESeTY302E 7svaUSd4fIHSBfNMB73HNMEMZLyRYPMqP9FZjHq6ARW4vYIlO/zm7vY4geTUybxBq4YQ1lh8Q3R+4 KjV5TtuSMmINT8j/VS/XYUsWFKk3deg8tesJeUAr2lzooSlGF3V7Ogft6RgkolZBz2w8qnvITYVgM +RFnkGhuZPctKvuwh8wbx5kRBTjuhGep//6aYZ3BJ+pZb2UUn767HlK9ni8rHASvnSDc2xlFFI8x5 mPyhNZrnVBYhre2kc5zs0Q==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1487 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1obFgy-0006lF-H2; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 02:28:12 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 09:28:22 +0300 Message-Id: <83edw3udmh.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: <2d1b683c22d98c9cabd3@heytings.org> (message from Gregory Heytings on Wed, 21 Sep 2022 17:11:17 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window References: <83ee8a2pm7.fsf@gnu.org> <87fssq2orj.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmru18xg.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf2i18pv.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7d618j7.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl3e2m1y.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> <83bkr8vpwy.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkr8am4o.fsf@gnus.org> <834jx0vnam.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22a3585f038d@heytings.org> <83sfkku29t.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22d98c9cabd3@heytings.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 17:11:17 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> On GUI frames, can't we do something similar to what we do for fringe > >> bitmaps? > > > > I'm not sure I follow. Fringe bitmaps are drawn by redisplay, and they > > do access faces, text properties, overlays,... So how would this solve > > the problem? > > Aren't they the simplest graphical element drawn by Emacs, a simple > black-and-white bitmap? No, they aren't. They are certainly not black-and-white: they use faces. > I don't think a "busy" indicator would have to access faces, text > properties and overlays, it could be a simple (list of) > black-and-white bitmaps drawn at a fixed position, e.g. on the left > of the mode line. Drawn how? Bitmaps are images, and drawing images in the text area means we need to invoke all the machinery of redrawing a certain screen line, be it on the mode line or elsewhere. That's how Emacs draws stuff; we don't have any way of directly poking the glass with an arbitrary bunch of pixels, at least not one that I know of. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 22 06:54:53 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Sep 2022 10:54:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36495 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obJr3-0006cp-Dk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 06:54:53 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:53264) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obJr1-0006cP-Vo for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 06:54:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=WFj8/u6Mdi3gMdse74qIo0aF6APmB2JuNz2RzZtxBXc=; b=Za2AVi5v6F1kcjNMdZfZildvBw 7Pf8DavzbtBFgFL0MBihnH6MBZBKOXmQ8dooAV9lI3GJ0yQrN6JC4Wnpc6SndpYxUylrPR13ZxySP 37ODYjNA97Olhi1ab9EcbKpUKFfYBO//BC2pQUy02rs0Na3Ii8yaNeInUhbnxlpjVXPo=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1obJqs-0007tq-0D; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 12:54:44 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window In-Reply-To: <83edw3udmh.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 22 Sep 2022 09:28:22 +0300") References: <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> <83bkr8vpwy.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkr8am4o.fsf@gnus.org> <834jx0vnam.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22a3585f038d@heytings.org> <83sfkku29t.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22d98c9cabd3@heytings.org> <83edw3udmh.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEVBR1MTEhVTn+s/ Z52/r6z///8nA0HJAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+YJFgojDiAt570AAAGoSURBVDjLbZOB dYMwDESlmgGs0AFaOwMY3AFc4v1nqk4yAZLCSx74c6eTMMQSM4sIfpGII4kQk+ASIHYQquNYFwo8 b7rWezdAFAg/pspzYvlUwCdFXYgkVpFJQXOFH0wUuehKH16WgREA1BXqFXGtwUyhZgMsEiMz/Kpb wmJqMBEAtGNHwYpoCPYiFq08wWT/+rRYJ9aLg0bdbfgMIqH8L7wUFAMVoLd+AlohOIi9nRQorZHN avpViKGgYwdUDDTZh2IgVNJKdjvtIABo66GiiM6S6ADVZnJvFn9yRaxhgLk/bCLkxQ8Q7g8Z80W1 +QQ2a711miDYQa59kzHADsEOUiplgOkF5GUXABR6gpSRqrCDlA+gbj/oG3FnPHiAlG0iXeLNbi3V apeLS+gjDULJybdLmj+mBEOua01f0UAY6/fsb1yV9j76Y1ckEnm2BzC/g+jbYX0Hvh1uB/ANJ2yS OL8pyED9x8rKb7a6XoB5Gch6HkBrQbKaYD0DssQQvAFI1CvnSw2tDsmG0V5S4ZuiPdYFUNTPZ0uZ 1pc+sH+19kNeAOHEmr/tP8Z4f61SELGbAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIyLTA5LTIyVDEw OjM1OjEzKzAwOjAwsJXROwAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0wOS0yMlQxMDozNToxMysw MDowMMHIaYcAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: James Taylor's _Sweet Baby James_: "Blossom" Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 12:54:41 +0200 Message-ID: <87pmfn7k7i.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Aren't they the simplest graphical element drawn by Emacs, a simple >> black-and-white bitmap? > > No, they aren't. They are certainly not black-and-white: they use > faces. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: Gregory Heytings , stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Aren't they the simplest graphical element drawn by Emacs, a simple >> black-and-white bitmap? > > No, they aren't. They are certainly not black-and-white: they use > faces. They use faces to get at the colours, but nothing beyond that, I think? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 22 08:33:50 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Sep 2022 12:33:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36560 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obLOo-0002uJ-1n for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 08:33:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40672) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obLOk-0002u4-5a for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 08:33:48 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:43110) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1obLOe-0005VR-NV; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 08:33:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=Ze4djqH/0/LS9Sc0zC8upf4eZZ4HpRcDXvYWRlVc/lE=; b=l6r0NTSw5MKi u5KRgNyCM4w9gKJkIwGiThhMkE/Uwyvv42FS+ZxwYnGdg8zUlQQKTnO9Rlc8foqrQVPSO2uMKAacO eVUjmnjx8fIo9b8OsjTBYpKyMcaicFrJpHXuhhhHN3vF2VZxMrExsrItAkz2iTGZWPn/2btyFCcQT mc0MJ4N5o46wAGno5orW10Zi4D296Y3zmlbVbvOyCCQ+NR0L+Sr5ihZe+4Oogfda9TbZ7bvh9jWUi JHtol4KyT5/WEJnjsuDu45/UT9nI0W7AkCAJvehQYi4bB/R9Ox7PqfukLFoQCiNC6bkQGKTZSiqw2 vt2wVr9LuPZpDDqHu/bB+g==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4087 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1obLOU-0004s4-WC; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 08:33:40 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 15:33:42 +0300 Message-Id: <83fsgjsi55.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87pmfn7k7i.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Thu, 22 Sep 2022 12:54:41 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window References: <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> <83bkr8vpwy.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkr8am4o.fsf@gnus.org> <834jx0vnam.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22a3585f038d@heytings.org> <83sfkku29t.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22d98c9cabd3@heytings.org> <83edw3udmh.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmfn7k7i.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: gregory@heytings.org, stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: Gregory Heytings , stefan@marxist.se, > 51490@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 12:54:41 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> Aren't they the simplest graphical element drawn by Emacs, a simple > >> black-and-white bitmap? > > > > No, they aren't. They are certainly not black-and-white: they use > > faces. > > They use faces to get at the colours, but nothing beyond that, I think? Yes, only the colors. But accessing the faces means you cannot do that while the Lisp machine is doing something. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 22 09:02:57 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Sep 2022 13:02:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36641 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obLqz-0003iD-77 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 09:02:57 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:54020) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obLqx-0003i4-PW for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 09:02:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1663851774; bh=5k9SSaGb4dkah6BezFxVmSqQxwkQOc7JlHCdQUDzMkc=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=mbahWYeiQuF5iI4ePMdFshUgb1ERj4zL4FWejfQ1hBjnX4wTn0Rov/UoAbmKgCfem RJW7roNezcM13ucTt0bT91zzbxCJWc03umF9L1Kso0FItzxBdjlOI9JGyH6cW1/gKe 7U1k++r91N5+aK/7kRvnUyPrYSohpjpDFu0wikEecvkKnx96/B9KboBH6QC348OdpR R1GiSMib2wXFd9ThrJKdWDKzeUIGI4KGNULYFjkduY7n2ZSTAzp2t326CvkXvr2otR 3bg+dB4A3Zf/p0ourrdUF4q0GnA/O19fMB+tmTuqljwdpGHvdUzD4GeGUpPrUDBq8Y PJoqtWXsA2yvA== Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 13:02:53 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window In-Reply-To: <83edw3udmh.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <83ee8a2pm7.fsf@gnu.org> <87fssq2orj.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmru18xg.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf2i18pv.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7d618j7.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl3e2m1y.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> <83bkr8vpwy.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkr8am4o.fsf@gnus.org> <834jx0vnam.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22a3585f038d@heytings.org> <83sfkku29t.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22d98c9cabd3@heytings.org> <83edw3udmh.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> Aren't they the simplest graphical element drawn by Emacs, a simple >> black-and-white bitmap? > > No, they aren't. They are certainly not black-and-white: they use > faces. > Sorry, I wrote a bit too fast (as usual), I did not mean literally "black" and "white", I meant "two colors", represented by a two-value pixel bitmap. > > Drawn how? Bitmaps are images, and drawing images in the text area > means we need to invoke all the machinery of redrawing a certain screen > line, be it on the mode line or elsewhere. That's how Emacs draws > stuff; we don't have any way of directly poking the glass with an > arbitrary bunch of pixels, at least not one that I know of. > I'm thinking aloud here, sorry if it isn't useful. But I think we have at least one similar occurrence: XTflash. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 22 09:08:29 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Sep 2022 13:08:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36649 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obLwK-0003q6-Ue for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 09:08:29 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:54044) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obLwI-0003px-J7 for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 09:08:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1663852105; bh=mEAAj/BxC3OvPCwXbPJitNiM25vhZYmuCPbHb6yPXdk=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=Kvu6L+BwV5rkgLD2LSDorIVgQSzaztPYUwOZPJhqmZjjbiQmrIU8dNsTNCv1JwmbW xVq+68cIhem9pf3eXdCHbKyrn8/P++dtJxvdJ2uGbdwuT8Iz+fv+cDJwSyKirYsEcR 8kO9WBOaBSY6yB2TGKoDYh8ZZOmxoUvNXkT+3A/adKhEJR6XLkJMChEN7DCSOTeTox Vf0erc92yvAGdesRg6Fxs16XcJ38CtLVVk3PlkSHxWZGiUgb/5pCN7/2PRxmDQPtTA 6WndzfKFS1dpeQHWdYZOrkaBiHXZHBIEbLND9fzI3MAR65lyDee68CVwcGnD4+N98+ Pw0oSYoY8p6nw== Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 13:08:25 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window In-Reply-To: <83fsgjsi55.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> <83bkr8vpwy.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkr8am4o.fsf@gnus.org> <834jx0vnam.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22a3585f038d@heytings.org> <83sfkku29t.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22d98c9cabd3@heytings.org> <83edw3udmh.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmfn7k7i.fsf@gnus.org> <83fsgjsi55.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>> Aren't they the simplest graphical element drawn by Emacs, a simple >>>> black-and-white bitmap? >>> >>> No, they aren't. They are certainly not black-and-white: they use >>> faces. >> >> They use faces to get at the colours, but nothing beyond that, I think? > > Yes, only the colors. But accessing the faces means you cannot do that > while the Lisp machine is doing something. > But would it be really necessary to access these faces each time the indicator would be drawn? We could for example cache the values of these two colors somewhere, or decide to do something different and use a specific function to set these two colors without going through the whole face machinery, something like (set-busy-indicator-colors FOREGROUND BACKGROUND). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 22 09:59:54 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Sep 2022 13:59:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38154 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obMk6-0005SQ-1g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 09:59:54 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49774) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obMk4-0005SD-Ka for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 09:59:53 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:58198) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1obMjy-0002Qi-Lr; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 09:59:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=jTiF3ZS46glbG7gguMG7a/AaAYeDHYD8k+eJ6IB1z1s=; b=T1IYTyX7F+2D /GO3KmH0N3POc15XN7+fm0aMoivravhFvjvade2tVU1GPzkLyeDwLMD0r6eukMeOxDHYo+EjtOyZn CyvkY/pkt/LBVVc5q58rVQF5pAaB7fphP67dWqsbiOrlMa8YVHJSLb2zuOufTF42cKWBkNuD1ZVjM B17Jv5V6YN/Hbe436UkcSToed3ApRz9g4P6p7fGCC3HJUvO/GdS52Dc9Iw2FTN9U4w7Ryb/KTbgLI VslxQwzOGP6zxjTmxhouw3EP68Bn8MLhyMgYrF6Yhy0hvbgXqMFc6HAEsh44tU5kWdsijVKIhHghK i1g+fwFXLHHau+gWX0xdMQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1401 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1obMjp-0008Fs-Cw; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 09:59:46 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 16:59:48 +0300 Message-Id: <8335cjse5n.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: (message from Gregory Heytings on Thu, 22 Sep 2022 13:02:53 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window References: <83ee8a2pm7.fsf@gnu.org> <87fssq2orj.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmru18xg.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf2i18pv.fsf@gnus.org> <87h7d618j7.fsf@gnus.org> <87bl3e2m1y.fsf@gnus.org> <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> <83bkr8vpwy.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkr8am4o.fsf@gnus.org> <834jx0vnam.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22a3585f038d@heytings.org> <83sfkku29t.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22d98c9cabd3@heytings.org> <83edw3udmh.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 13:02:53 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Drawn how? Bitmaps are images, and drawing images in the text area > > means we need to invoke all the machinery of redrawing a certain screen > > line, be it on the mode line or elsewhere. That's how Emacs draws > > stuff; we don't have any way of directly poking the glass with an > > arbitrary bunch of pixels, at least not one that I know of. > > I'm thinking aloud here, sorry if it isn't useful. But I think we have at > least one similar occurrence: XTflash. Which part of it seemed similar to what is being discussed here? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 22 10:03:53 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Sep 2022 14:03:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38165 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obMnw-0005ah-Sk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 10:03:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55210) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obMnu-0005aT-3m for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 10:03:51 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49796) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1obMnn-0005ah-6a; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 10:03:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=G9y1PsgSZIFEha2x9q/kBmzY148XGn5+nvzIbjESG/4=; b=cPizaUTXR0+7 TJRJlLcrRFqA1am+KWHagIPKE5lFqZzJV9xNrho2XIV4dUiQgko2v25OSKi39rxJAb5gPc2cG9pUB oNEXTbGCWaMMCjq2bM4Vu5z9qLMq5NiPPgLACcA6vhO2CLj907hchK3tJWnZLNUzWL+xw9FfO61Ty RZKRWYp7tojcEphvcDhqb+qISdSq+UYqccGmEtRrSDEnqm9Mf0RyeYOJ7G+KKvv+IjnnR0PvsUe55 hLr1YYZlNCNShXB6CCW2rCscGiCccuaUFpwGyacKR9vYy09AXrmJBpWnx6YLmMOsfXxnRngIEE2fA womQm4YaItQ3BhI5EDj/+g==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1639 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1obMnb-00011R-B7; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 10:03:42 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 17:03:41 +0300 Message-Id: <831qs3sdz6.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: (message from Gregory Heytings on Thu, 22 Sep 2022 13:08:25 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window References: <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> <83bkr8vpwy.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkr8am4o.fsf@gnus.org> <834jx0vnam.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22a3585f038d@heytings.org> <83sfkku29t.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22d98c9cabd3@heytings.org> <83edw3udmh.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmfn7k7i.fsf@gnus.org> <83fsgjsi55.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 13:08:25 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , stefan@marxist.se, > 51490@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> They use faces to get at the colours, but nothing beyond that, I think? > > > > Yes, only the colors. But accessing the faces means you cannot do that > > while the Lisp machine is doing something. > > But would it be really necessary to access these faces each time the > indicator would be drawn? We could for example cache the values of these > two colors somewhere Faces are already cached. But for each cache there comes a time when it must be flushed and/or refreshed, and during those times you cannot safely use the cache. > or decide to do something different and use a > specific function to set these two colors without going through the whole > face machinery, something like (set-busy-indicator-colors FOREGROUND > BACKGROUND). As soon as we allow set-busy-indicator-colors or somesuch, we have a problem with Lisp programs doing that exactly when there's time to redraw the indicator. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 22 11:57:09 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Sep 2022 15:57:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38263 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obOZY-00029G-OW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 11:57:09 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:54222) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obOZV-000294-Gq for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 11:57:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1663862224; bh=gLAkwq6FbgWyeiupNWf8wrl0kYdC2dVyIe4NwWtCUIM=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=r0jXLThOv55wtVG9it88T1v9hWx/CrofUSn15aEvRL7xrMUDJGyicUsQIfM8uEStp o8szNC1gvTtDLJi1l/FJnM965G8Dc1hA1kfgqdiZqQprFGvnzY7VYOrDHbY+cpaiEv 0BPDyAg6JBTnUs5IYWqXm9eO3+xepov2KqWgA6NTD+CM5eg45+YheAhiGMRjhPzLu1 2asy5ygjs03BlvDmzVFadR2ZCF4ORUq4pLbQECRQMdiOX7Aaq3/I//uVVSvfFVYdsj 2TBIDWDzBmGdwX1JT7WNr+rhrgONcRzyMwALuRO88Ewpb92T95amgf3wN+aY0ETlda Xmr2IXHyvyQ9g== Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 15:57:04 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window In-Reply-To: <831qs3sdz6.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> <83bkr8vpwy.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkr8am4o.fsf@gnus.org> <834jx0vnam.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22a3585f038d@heytings.org> <83sfkku29t.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22d98c9cabd3@heytings.org> <83edw3udmh.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmfn7k7i.fsf@gnus.org> <83fsgjsi55.fsf@gnu.org> <831qs3sdz6.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> I'm thinking aloud here, sorry if it isn't useful. But I think we have >> at least one similar occurrence: XTflash. > > Which part of it seemed similar to what is being discussed here? > The fact that a portion of the frame is modified without a complete redisplay of the frame, through primitive drawing functions? Am I missing something? Would it not be possible to draw a busy indicator at a fixed position of the frame with XDrawRectangle for the background, followed by XDrawPoints for the foreground? >> But would it be really necessary to access these faces each time the >> indicator would be drawn? We could for example cache the values of >> these two colors somewhere > > Faces are already cached. But for each cache there comes a time when it > must be flushed and/or refreshed, and during those times you cannot > safely use the cache. > What I had in mind is a more primitive cache mechanism: two C variables. >> or decide to do something different and use a specific function to set >> these two colors without going through the whole face machinery, >> something like (set-busy-indicator-colors FOREGROUND BACKGROUND). > > As soon as we allow set-busy-indicator-colors or somesuch, we have a > problem with Lisp programs doing that exactly when there's time to > redraw the indicator. > We could specify that set-busy-indicator-colors is only meant to be used in init files, for example. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 22 12:21:21 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Sep 2022 16:21:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38340 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obOwz-0002qj-AQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 12:21:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59138) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obOwq-0002qQ-UP for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 12:21:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:39380) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1obOwk-00033a-6B; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 12:21:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=/3chgF/m4zoN2assKsUBkZm+4wp3mxGhP1xXXnVA0vk=; b=ltzYc+6tL6Lm IscNoXYAtgAIWsGu23uDzyLAnz6/quGbTzb+TdrGTckBJa9MU98F+3W9QK/AiLHa+iDaQ3ImwhdRK JEOjxB1oTrJhXw0i+CI02kLxp87xETbS2rg1ZGsXL1IwIi3FpKgi9Vbkq5x65b6nqduEcFm/JZ4J1 14XrRNK73ghYvtSEOR0ZhT0DqAahnUknr1B1ZD0YHqRA75R2dGX6azFwEB2AgwNeqTiJKhSGKtcRm aid1wf5vqq8P2CDH/lb8ICO9st/Pj304UmIq8iuGJqu1CO/efzrWKlWenXG5w25HmiLQXV41FFw35 isX8SV9r8/RQLcLei46Mew==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2088 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1obOwe-000739-0z; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 12:21:05 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 19:21:10 +0300 Message-Id: <83zgerqt1l.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: (message from Gregory Heytings on Thu, 22 Sep 2022 15:57:04 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window References: <87pmrtz1y7.fsf@gnus.org> <83pmrt1bsa.fsf@gnu.org> <87y26hxm8a.fsf@gnus.org> <87k0hvviiu.fsf@gnus.org> <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> <83bkr8vpwy.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkr8am4o.fsf@gnus.org> <834jx0vnam.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22a3585f038d@heytings.org> <83sfkku29t.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22d98c9cabd3@heytings.org> <83edw3udmh.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmfn7k7i.fsf@gnus.org> <83fsgjsi55.fsf@gnu.org> <831qs3sdz6.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 15:57:04 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> I'm thinking aloud here, sorry if it isn't useful. But I think we have > >> at least one similar occurrence: XTflash. > > > > Which part of it seemed similar to what is being discussed here? > > The fact that a portion of the frame is modified without a complete > redisplay of the frame, through primitive drawing functions? Am I missing > something? Would it not be possible to draw a busy indicator at a fixed > position of the frame with XDrawRectangle for the background, followed by > XDrawPoints for the foreground? It should be possible, yes. I just said that we don't have such an infrastructure yet, it needs to be written first. When someone does write it, they will have to deal with the issue of what kind of drawing do we allow there; for example, a 1-pixel line is easy, but is unlikely to be visually appealing. And the main problem this will have to solve is this: whatever you draw behind the back of the display engine will run the risk of being wiped out when the next redisplay cycle kicks in. XTflash doesn't have that problem because it is invoked from Lisp, not from an async signal handler. > >> or decide to do something different and use a specific function to set > >> these two colors without going through the whole face machinery, > >> something like (set-busy-indicator-colors FOREGROUND BACKGROUND). > > > > As soon as we allow set-busy-indicator-colors or somesuch, we have a > > problem with Lisp programs doing that exactly when there's time to > > redraw the indicator. > > We could specify that set-busy-indicator-colors is only meant to be used > in init files, for example. Good luck with getting that past our users! From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 23 11:06:17 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Sep 2022 15:06:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41394 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obkFt-0002UP-6d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2022 11:06:17 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:37762) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obkFr-0002UC-5E for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2022 11:06:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=9/8alEGIwsIDa+1IaHRSvA6cvKAy9Gg9ww/Q0bFjxow=; b=fIsbfm3mvq08Y+l/tf6sJfgL4Z 7whusgQZmN/0V90egaJRk+h1Rl3nzL39rf67Fsro8fKkcOffVLLYMNCTsmJA9jVfuyP66SjJyEArb V8pcicUKguB2W+HkmhIgRoYo5a9GQ8eQqNy+bW94eVNJczYfjmMKabp+kJgUQXRKbee4=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1obkFi-0002zT-4T; Fri, 23 Sep 2022 17:06:08 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window In-Reply-To: <83zgerqt1l.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 22 Sep 2022 19:21:10 +0300") References: <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> <83bkr8vpwy.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkr8am4o.fsf@gnus.org> <834jx0vnam.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22a3585f038d@heytings.org> <83sfkku29t.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22d98c9cabd3@heytings.org> <83edw3udmh.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmfn7k7i.fsf@gnus.org> <83fsgjsi55.fsf@gnu.org> <831qs3sdz6.fsf@gnu.org> <83zgerqt1l.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEVgGSeyTzTtni/s qkX80Vn///8TRdHCAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+YJFw41Kr8DeQIAAAG9SURBVDjLlZPb ecMgDIUhXcDCGaAIBiiIBWy8/0w9EthO0qfqAX/Wz9EFhHPvRpxCJKLFef3cVlYJBeuPewjXmI/T Sqoka1VQmZkuUtZaAMIEHE4gJKIxALgBXMF2KhE5SMEh9ZbAHWMxkPaj3xLsDjWU+uN8lkPTrFPS dOkb+sjp0PR0pu/QEDnnOe/8mn6jSgZoJQX8vEAx4LDyaytbuIGR+KnwJ2hX8gFUEs7sPd8KlVxg z0eXD0BaFmfrfoBZV9DerbYPQABl8Vi3J9UPgGsOraPlV0VcO+v9J47uHaACWjyFvL0D1rEBIJZF qrtbt+kZu9qx3yD6qXcLkez3kVgKML/4wAZmpAhC5OHAePR9+A3QqtW6xT3aBewMfd5Jw7rnISfg MQ17BHGuNZF+na3OT2SrCn4pBswfU4t4FbAnBAaGgHCz/A3/2jHVCpivIemL1iRN0g3GvOGsWj+Q I2o7QyA6OTk2Mf8FkBoAo2X78W9An4e0Oenw1wnwpSRj3MT2s1b1qIKTHf4uCfvrVFT4mwIxS8ly ark6GDJN31YaobxwOt0W3mrBWX6dL0z3Q2GhIs2L+mOL+7/9Akkpkqnkksl9AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRl OmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIyLTA5LTIzVDE0OjUzOjQyKzAwOjAw1XiV6AAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkA MjAyMi0wOS0yM1QxNDo1Mzo0MiswMDowMKQlLVQAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Kate Bush's _The Kick Inside_: "Wuthering Heights" Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 17:06:05 +0200 Message-ID: <87k05u5dwi.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > It should be possible, yes. I just said that we don't have such an > infrastructure yet, it needs to be written first. When someone does > write it, they will have to deal with the issue of what kin [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: Gregory Heytings , stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > It should be possible, yes. I just said that we don't have such an > infrastructure yet, it needs to be written first. When someone does > write it, they will have to deal with the issue of what kind of > drawing do we allow there; for example, a 1-pixel line is easy, but is > unlikely to be visually appealing. The spinner will presumably not be done with line drawing, but consist of a set of 8 glyphs that are defined along the lines of fringe markers. > And the main problem this will have to solve is this: whatever you > draw behind the back of the display engine will run the risk of being > wiped out when the next redisplay cycle kicks in. Yes, we'd have to have a way to tell the redisplay to lay off redrawing in that rectangle, probably. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 23 11:45:30 2022 Received: (at 51490) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Sep 2022 15:45:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41461 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obkrq-0004ue-2f for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2022 11:45:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35092) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1obkrk-0004Qq-MV for 51490@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2022 11:45:28 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:51222) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1obkrf-0006Yq-AS; Fri, 23 Sep 2022 11:45:19 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=C+EqsQ6LX6aJiFYSr8DPVpBn8WAUzq27T7RvRlUEZNw=; b=jS5aXAvxS85T gOvVX/pkkqVhdP9cMACkjONrSGn1mdLyPm+uQYMk+/rtPN+S7tN2pcechj/vrjTSq2Fh2cCFBF0DT TsglU09n0qiT3N3/Ya/1U9Kfro9wurv/nufBKf1nQjpXgroQnPelbOYYsl/nf01h63ZKTJpfzx18C awTUogGFg0KlSniM1c76Vdz1RzF2/jBD7Alq9mLwFQ1ySa9BAMPmFZmZvTW8x8nSGw5/xgrtiNfBy pS9M8YcjHAVXJV+Tx3na/w+tOcZfbnMNEx5RWlyGzrzQxuQdMT5X6GD6Rv0O5T5Zgn6BXH36R28Sy Jpmh8jP4xn7e5aax59sPQA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1119 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1obkrd-0007Gt-Ic; Fri, 23 Sep 2022 11:45:18 -0400 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 18:45:12 +0300 Message-Id: <83v8pep01j.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87k05u5dwi.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Fri, 23 Sep 2022 17:06:05 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#51490: Show an indicator when Emacs is busy somewhere in the Emacs window References: <87a6iqr8il.fsf@gnus.org> <87r107nmq7.fsf@gnus.org> <83y1uewa55.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgl7zri.fsf@gnus.org> <83illhueuo.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn9x543a.fsf@gnus.org> <83bkr8vpwy.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkr8am4o.fsf@gnus.org> <834jx0vnam.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22a3585f038d@heytings.org> <83sfkku29t.fsf@gnu.org> <2d1b683c22d98c9cabd3@heytings.org> <83edw3udmh.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmfn7k7i.fsf@gnus.org> <83fsgjsi55.fsf@gnu.org> <831qs3sdz6.fsf@gnu.org> <83zgerqt1l.fsf@gnu.org> <87k05u5dwi.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 51490 Cc: gregory@heytings.org, stefan@marxist.se, 51490@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: Gregory Heytings , stefan@marxist.se, > 51490@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 17:06:05 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > It should be possible, yes. I just said that we don't have such an > > infrastructure yet, it needs to be written first. When someone does > > write it, they will have to deal with the issue of what kind of > > drawing do we allow there; for example, a 1-pixel line is easy, but is > > unlikely to be visually appealing. > > The spinner will presumably not be done with line drawing, but consist > of a set of 8 glyphs that are defined along the lines of fringe markers. Then this gets back to how to do that behind the back of the display code. We'd need to invent new machinery for that. > > And the main problem this will have to solve is this: whatever you > > draw behind the back of the display engine will run the risk of being > > wiped out when the next redisplay cycle kicks in. > > Yes, we'd have to have a way to tell the redisplay to lay off redrawing > in that rectangle, probably. That's also something that doesn't exist, and will have to be added somehow.