GNU bug report logs - #50908
[PATCH] erc-user-mode: Set "+i" by default

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: [PATCH] erc-user-mode: Set "+i" by default
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:08:34 -0700

Severity: wishlist

Hi Amin,

What do you think of this ERC patch to enable the "+i" user flag by
default.  This hides a user from global /who and /names, thus providing
(very marginally) better privacy and protection from spam bots and
similarly abusive behaviour.

It seems to be supported pretty ubiquitously:

https://libera.chat/guides/usermodes
https://www.unrealircd.org/docs/User_Modes
http://www.efnet.org/?module=docs&doc=15
https://freenode.net/kb/answer/usermodes

Message #8 received at 50908 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Amin Bandali <bandali <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: 50908 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-erc <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50908: [PATCH] erc-user-mode: Set "+i" by default
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 01:47:21 -0400

Hi Stefan,

Stefan Kangas writes:

> Severity: wishlist
>
> Hi Amin,
>
> What do you think of this ERC patch to enable the "+i" user flag by
> default.  This hides a user from global /who and /names, thus providing
> (very marginally) better privacy and protection from spam bots and
> similarly abusive behaviour.

ENOPATCH :)

This sounds like a good thing to do.
Other folks reading emacs-erc@, what do you think?

> It seems to be supported pretty ubiquitously:
>
> https://libera.chat/guides/usermodes
> https://www.unrealircd.org/docs/User_Modes
> http://www.efnet.org/?module=docs&doc=15
> https://freenode.net/kb/answer/usermodes
>
>
>

-- 
https://bndl.org

Message #11 received at 50908 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Amin Bandali <bandali <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 50908 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-erc <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50908: [PATCH] erc-user-mode: Set "+i" by default
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 13:15:29 +0200

Amin Bandali <bandali <at> gnu.org> writes:

> > What do you think of this ERC patch to enable the "+i" user flag by
> > default.  This hides a user from global /who and /names, thus providing
> > (very marginally) better privacy and protection from spam bots and
> > similarly abusive behaviour.
>
> ENOPATCH :)

Oops.  I'm not at my computer this weekend, so I'll send it later.
Basically it just sets erc-user-mode to "+i" and adds a comment that
explains the "+i" flag.

> This sounds like a good thing to do.
> Other folks reading emacs-erc@, what do you think?

IIUC, "+i" is the default that irssi has:
https://irssi.org/documentation/settings/#usermode

Message #14 received at 50908 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "J.P." <jp <at> neverwas.me>
To: Amin Bandali <bandali <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 50908 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>, emacs-erc <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50908: [PATCH] erc-user-mode: Set "+i" by default
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 05:23:33 -0700

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Amin Bandali <bandali <at> gnu.org> writes:

> This sounds like a good thing to do.
> Other folks reading emacs-erc@, what do you think?
>
>> It seems to be supported pretty ubiquitously:
>>
>> https://libera.chat/guides/usermodes
>> https://www.unrealircd.org/docs/User_Modes
>> http://www.efnet.org/?module=docs&doc=15
>> https://freenode.net/kb/answer/usermodes

Pretty sure Libera.Chat does this for you by default, at least for
registered users. I didn't bother checking the new Freenode due to the
recent "must register at irc.com" policy (but I certainly can). Also
didn't try EFNet, though I'm fairly certain they're the lone exception
here (as in they *don't* auto +i you). Logs from other nets/ircds
attached (all auto +i).

[chary.log (text/plain, attachment)]

[ergo.log (text/plain, attachment)]

[hybrid.log (text/plain, attachment)]

[inspircd.log (text/plain, attachment)]

[oftc.log (text/plain, attachment)]

[unreal.log (text/plain, attachment)]

Message #17 received at 50908 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Amin Bandali <bandali <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: 50908 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-erc <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50908: [PATCH] erc-user-mode: Set "+i" by default
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 22:34:04 -0400

Stefan Kangas writes:

> Amin Bandali <bandali <at> gnu.org> writes:
>
>> > What do you think of this ERC patch to enable the "+i" user flag by
>> > default.  This hides a user from global /who and /names, thus providing
>> > (very marginally) better privacy and protection from spam bots and
>> > similarly abusive behaviour.
>>
>> ENOPATCH :)
>
> Oops.  I'm not at my computer this weekend, so I'll send it later.
> Basically it just sets erc-user-mode to "+i" and adds a comment that
> explains the "+i" flag.

Cool; no rush here.  :)  I'll await your patch next week then.

>> This sounds like a good thing to do.
>> Other folks reading emacs-erc@, what do you think?
>
> IIUC, "+i" is the default that irssi has:
> https://irssi.org/documentation/settings/#usermode
>

Nice, good to know.  Since other clients (and some networks) also do
this out of the box, I'd welcome the change in ERC as well.

-- 
https://bndl.org

Message #20 received at 50908 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Amin Bandali <bandali <at> gnu.org>
To: "J.P." <jp <at> neverwas.me>
Cc: 50908 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>, emacs-erc <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50908: [PATCH] erc-user-mode: Set "+i" by default
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 22:38:38 -0400

J.P. writes:

> Amin Bandali <bandali <at> gnu.org> writes:
>
>> This sounds like a good thing to do.
>> Other folks reading emacs-erc@, what do you think?
>>
>>> It seems to be supported pretty ubiquitously:
>>>
>>> https://libera.chat/guides/usermodes
>>> https://www.unrealircd.org/docs/User_Modes
>>> http://www.efnet.org/?module=docs&doc=15
>>> https://freenode.net/kb/answer/usermodes
>
> Pretty sure Libera.Chat does this for you by default, at least for
> registered users. I didn't bother checking the new Freenode due to the
> recent "must register at irc.com" policy (but I certainly can). Also
> didn't try EFNet, though I'm fairly certain they're the lone exception
> here (as in they *don't* auto +i you). Logs from other nets/ircds
> attached (all auto +i).
>

Thanks checking!  Yeah Libera.Chat does this even for non-logged-in
users (if I recall correctly), and good to see some other nets/ircds
do the same.  No worries about the new Freenode.
I'll review and merge Stefan's patch once he sends it.

Thanks.

-- 
https://bndl.org

Message #23 received at 50908 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Amin Bandali <bandali <at> gnu.org>, "J.P." <jp <at> neverwas.me>
Cc: 50908 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-erc <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50908: [PATCH] erc-user-mode: Set "+i" by default
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2021 01:47:17 +0000

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Amin Bandali <bandali <at> gnu.org> writes:

> I'll review and merge Stefan's patch once he sends it.

See attached.

[0001-lisp-erc-erc.el-erc-user-mode-Set-i-by-default.patch (text/x-diff, attachment)]

Message #28 received at 50908-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Amin Bandali <bandali <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: emacs-erc <at> gnu.org, 50908-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org, "J.P." <jp <at> neverwas.me>
Subject: Re: bug#50908: [PATCH] erc-user-mode: Set "+i" by default
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2021 23:16:51 -0400

Stefan Kangas writes:

> Amin Bandali <bandali <at> gnu.org> writes:
>
>> I'll review and merge Stefan's patch once he sends it.
>
> See attached.
>
>

Thanks, merged.

To git.savannah.gnu.org:/srv/git/emacs.git
   d00f3d4c05..595e506c82  emacs-28 -> emacs-28

-- 
https://bndl.org

Message #31 received at 50908-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "J.P." <jp <at> neverwas.me>
To: Amin Bandali <bandali <at> gnu.org>
Cc: emacs-erc <at> gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>,
 50908-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#50908: [PATCH] erc-user-mode: Set "+i" by default
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2021 21:09:14 -0700

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Before this gets archived, I'd like to highlight what I feel to be a
closely related issue possibly deserving some discussion at some point,
namely, the absence of user modes among ERC's other user-state tracking.

If you take a look at `erc-set-modes' and friends [1], you'll see that
those who came before kicked the can down the road slightly when it came
to this feature. From the placeholders and comments, it's unclear to me
whether they were expressing ("owning") an intent to abstain or whether
plans merely petered out (my guess).

It's also unclear to me to what extent current users just assume this
has already been implemented. (Until very recently, I could have counted
myself among the casualties.) Which is not to say I think user-mode
naivete as a conscious policy choice is the worst thing ever. However,
users who associate featurefulness with user-state omniscience probably
feel otherwise.

In terms of tradeoffs, one less obvious benefit [2] of replacing those
placeholders with the necessary smarts might be a smidge less congestion
early on in the `erc-server-flood-queue' [3]. As far as drawbacks,
there's probably some research required [4] in addition to the usual
added stress of taking on more complexity [5].

I didn't raise any of this earlier for fear of appearing dismissive of
this patch as some kind of half measure (and thereby somehow keen on
forestalling its installation). Thanks.

P.S. Someone should tell Ergo not to fire off a second 221 when a client
issues an early MODE command, as ERC now does (see attached).


Notes
~~~~~

[1] Like `erc-update-modes' and also the response handlers
    `erc-server-MODE' and `erc-server-221'.

[2] Among the traditional benefits would be modes featuring more
    prominently in the UI (see popular standalone clients), possibly
    with a legend/widget thingy to explain the letters. Third party
    packages may also appreciate being able to check modes without
    adding custom handlers.

[3] Which is helpful in testing and maybe also in module/user code
    running on MOTD hooks (and also perhaps for folks stuck using
    NickServ).

[4] That is, assuming we'd even bother keeping up with the various pet
    modes offered by the major networks. Also, the nonstandard ISUPPORT
    param "USERMODES" may be worth a quick look.

[5] For example, going this route would likely introduce at least one
    local variable along with the need to wrangle yet another timer
    (spawned from the same 376/422 handler).

[ergo.log (text/plain, attachment)]

[ergo-server-buffer.log (text/plain, attachment)]

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