From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:57 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#50895 <50895@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#50895 <50895@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes Reply-To: bug#50895 <50895@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2025 22:36:57 +0000 retitle 50895 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes reassign 50895 emacs submitter 50895 Lars Ingebrigtsen severity 50895 wishlist thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 13:25:54 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 17:25:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50095 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdL7-0005I3-Tb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:25:54 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:44532) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdL3-0005Hs-EB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:25:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47364) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdL2-0006Kf-UR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:25:49 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2]:49750) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdL1-0000cG-AG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:25:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:Subject:Cc:To:From: Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=WXqOhK73vvWRCDh2UvMf8btsw1zLFr8C4CNEyACRZcE=; b=AsX2DZYTyyYtX1gRh07E4/CpUH BLXzXf/rW66RDhUKlSDApcGaAx68TpNJVtmRKyYWHlGGliAq8F29MwgGRhuorh4+3yZSJtrkhiVcu KMnZQMkgCYIlvmrSrfJtlGk0wvPa8R5EJd74ujKmMv5R1it366/1yJJ/Xo3y0uuF4bRk=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdKv-0003I0-GX; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 19:25:44 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes X-Now-Playing: The Notwist's _Pick Up The Phone_: "Red Room" Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 19:25:39 +0200 Message-ID: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: I think defaulting show-paren-mode to "on" is a good change in general, but it's distracting in some modes. For instance, when presenting data in a buffer, having point flash around when moving around [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2; envelope-from=larsi@gnus.org; helo=quimby.gnus.org X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: Dmitry Gutov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) I think defaulting show-paren-mode to "on" is a good change in general, but it's distracting in some modes. For instance, when presenting data in a buffer, having point flash around when moving around in the buffer is not what most people will want. (Think Gnus buffers, *Help* buffers, etc.) Some people have been using this mode for years, though, and are fine with the cursor bopping around when trying to read data, so force-disabling it in (say) `special-mode' isn't quite the answer, either. Does anybody see a way to enable it by default in non-special buffers only, but not explicitly switching it off in special-mode buffers for those that want it? In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 23, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.24, cairo version 1.16.0) of 2021-09-26 built on elva Repository revision: 43ae8c828d853382bbc2a27b9e14b9fff6ba18b6 Repository branch: master Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12011000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 13:28:26 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 17:28:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50100 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdNa-0005Mz-BY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:28:26 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:60086) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdNY-0005Mk-7F for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:28:25 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Cg6jKUQEcymnBI+CGZbIiqZXuWv63qxzSZisd1RBTaI=; b=PDkvG2Ls8vIRZ6tp1Sb9VPW5ZZ ILsvJVqk6IrzYoG9axzAkSIN1tZjnZu9E/2L9uXXV2M9z4GIyhPaIk9KvT1/pt+Q6KxAuJbgkN9zu lPBnPvXgC6HhZj8JZEvesWwV+NwcHAXDA1fuMCtANqNUhMHI7XzyexMPSGgYD/eqJLGQ=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdNP-0003Ix-TF for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 19:28:18 +0200 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 19:28:12 +0200 Message-Id: <87ee978f6b.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #50894 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 06de38db-c48f-4458-6137-08d9837232e5 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Sep 2021 17:54:35.1974 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: dxfYStM/fy9e96q9jsCkRxw6lHqS5+7wXWb0Kd4juZMkeJt8tziWU89JJYCevN21f1zF4Or7iE6e8hQH4hcE2g== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SJ0PR10MB5645 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10122 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=641 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2109230001 definitions=main-2109290102 X-Proofpoint-GUID: yrxJLtpfSLcaOf2OLZryUpHo6CQh0ifI X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: yrxJLtpfSLcaOf2OLZryUpHo6CQh0ifI X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: Dmitry Gutov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > I think defaulting show-paren-mode to "on" is a good > change in general, but it's distracting in some modes. Sounds like a user opinion. Users can turn it on or off wherever they like. If you turn it off automatically in some modes for everyone, then you break the behavior for users who have customized to turn it on (globally). Why do that? If you think now that it should be on globally by default, then change it to on. That will break the default behavior for users who've enjoyed it being off globally by default. But if you change the default globally to on, AND you change it to off in some modes where you happen to think it's distracting, then you oblige both users who enjoyed it off by default (globally) AND users who (by customizing) enjoyed it being on globally to customize Emacs to adjust to your change. Remember that `show-paren-mode' is not just about flashing things. It's also (and mostly) about just highlighting parens. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 13:59:15 2021 Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 17:59:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50163 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdrO-0008PP-U0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:59:15 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f50.google.com ([209.85.216.50]:46809) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdrM-0008P8-MR for 50895@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:59:13 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f50.google.com with SMTP id me3-20020a17090b17c300b0019f44d2e401so566024pjb.5 for <50895@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 10:59:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3bvriek/WZ5fQKYVSffkosoCG6NRgTDgwBKTkRm4kyk=; b=bBm1jwopYNLYQXTRT5x8JWr/UiXHbAzgfZEG3Bx3Dup0mP4mZWioAYXjbiIPEEjcRL Co0dQWW6TtCZATvs5iVLJOJvqj2jnpQaNpRNmYAjxBAYQS3n7kMNfrrhVxt6sHEPwdYv Ee8eSFMyw5hXViflV0Zdm0+gJcMWug2X946H/ziq+7enhHLKAEiKuMF09qAoIpEFcfk1 FXZ/SiSupoQL3/ftn33dRf2BIeZMM7p1TqWkEvDTqyNhXWs9DJFPLUDkK7Yzg2wddm3j M5t2+VG9LlG6GOfVFIibT9V+7iXXn2HAw54W4quPMt3fPlbsSeDX+8LTvQEXXNWK7um1 X+TA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3bvriek/WZ5fQKYVSffkosoCG6NRgTDgwBKTkRm4kyk=; b=PXxDKo2F5QCogCJsap2toMDmo/ES5gad3mfKg8q/MbgqyKsqlAFyBbGq37XQcnTImG rl4bJ/QUYHBHB48KRg8BKHrQqTTAmZ+RphFIWmJuYy/R/v2j8+ajR1JzJlwfcPTfFi7R EoKs2PN+7CPs5NjC4Di9ukUXHy+AwQv/oxZW1AM8LgLFDkfFEQMZMswi/+4rVPB3U32e 2LNAE3td21GG3LZzIQyaIf/9zHHbVcPbYGncEFgkgJMp3nKPZ+E1OIPkq6CnIlH91lR1 GOr+EFuN4LrsFVipnkBzKTdnYwSc5OaoMtUorCnWZ3H6kaIj66DTn0voxjlGH9VnECAd pH3A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532OBhCiQVoXGBa6SEAFoewNWkrPTORvHW3rbd8GspmnVlHxLIdQ Ki0zx18+ugyqptxlW6sW60M= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzktMivSQ6nEI+yupEv/hvu+JLm2j3aqQpf7AGTbh/KyqmDP0IqdB57CwVJzsFC8KljRrRNxw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:4b4b:: with SMTP id mi11mr7793766pjb.41.1632938346728; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 10:59:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com. [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id nk12sm2583436pjb.5.2021.09.29.10.59.05 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 29 Sep 2021 10:59:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#50895: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 50895@debbugs.gnu.org References: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> From: Jim Porter Message-ID: <1cf60c2c-7ecc-631b-22c3-6d779476aeeb@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 10:59:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: Dmitry Gutov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 9/29/2021 10:25 AM, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > I think defaulting show-paren-mode to "on" is a good change in general, > but it's distracting in some modes. For instance, when presenting data > in a buffer, having point flash around when moving around in the buffer > is not what most people will want. > > (Think Gnus buffers, *Help* buffers, etc.) > > Some people have been using this mode for years, though, and are fine > with the cursor bopping around when trying to read data, so > force-disabling it in (say) `special-mode' isn't quite the answer, > either. > > Does anybody see a way to enable it by default in non-special buffers > only, but not explicitly switching it off in special-mode buffers for > those that want it? Perhaps something akin to `font-lock-global-modes'? The help text for that says: > If nil, means no modes have Font Lock mode automatically turned on. > If t, all modes that support Font Lock mode have it automatically turned on. > If a list, it should be a list of ‘major-mode’ symbol names for which Font Lock > mode should be automatically turned on. The sense of the list is negated if it > begins with ‘not’. Then the default value for `show-paren-global-modes' could be `(prog-mode)' or `(prog-mode text-mode)', or even `(not special-mode)', depending on one's opinions about whether `show-paren-mode' makes sense for prose. That would cover both this bug as well as providing an easy way for users to customize the major modes where `show-paren-mode' is enabled (this is already possible with `show-paren-local-mode', but it'd be a bit simpler with `show-paren-global-modes'). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 14:02:03 2021 Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 18:02:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50173 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdu7-0008Vq-KS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:02:03 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:60398) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdu6-0008VL-2D for 50895@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:02:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=awGEkr97vYKWetmApEsNJtbWoVCnGCxwwPmEOrGOHbo=; b=HWBhHYWfO+5lFOxLH+d2tA4mlA yyFiXteTSS5FguMBhwnpFt2WHm2B9Racpvwc8fdYmnOd3e37zxs42fbO1p8vaZFDwk9l00/VCqs3w NODrRH2HvxKheObHSijuIU0k0qRnU4uK7gRACmKDHuqA/hLWAk5RaquEwysr238DOsZc=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdtx-0003ct-65; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 20:01:55 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Jim Porter Subject: Re: bug#50895: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes References: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> <1cf60c2c-7ecc-631b-22c3-6d779476aeeb@gmail.com> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAFVBMVEV1ESFzDR0uBgwN AwRRChVrJC3////R5sOfAAAAAWJLR0QGYWa4fQAAAAd0SU1FB+UJHREsBuiIyn4AAAFlSURBVDjL bVRRdsQgCIS+9h/2eYBukgs05gBN4hV6/6tUEJHNxg99cWDQGQkgMxAAcp36QJlYRtgEsA+uwQKx jRppOPLbqGR0C8gewAVQTj3KPRXcAq38G1DJLANvwu8yoN2XwHfwJYl6ikUQB2Va/DznvVdA14r5 XKcsSE9jbEDKS5nz1jWpgOl6THWac2NVflNxetZSH/nb3TEgrb+y5B8cgCY8lITmbQDttAac2zC+ 3fCxNmBtsUMuAbBlCBlRtz3Nu9Z4or8Y0+iUg37qcUUXct2Pqa6n5knZ8bAe01KOvKG/P38OVdy8 qojYqzSxUgWWYC26hans0XL2jG6weehGpb2Uwl47ACUpQE51AYZSHbE19hCIy/aOXnsLxUe1EuCS YVQY47Xv9DTYGzMIIuYIjzwzoldECvxBvMnQgij8CUYnmc3xgjQkwli9EhC2+C//ZYA0ErWrBW1v +p+M7gIgW5V/rjY7PtSLYvwAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjEtMDktMjlUMTc6NDQ6MDYr MDA6MDD2LgAaAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIxLTA5LTI5VDE3OjQ0OjA2KzAwOjAwh3O4 pgAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: The Notwist's _Neon Golden_: "Neon Golden" Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 20:01:51 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1cf60c2c-7ecc-631b-22c3-6d779476aeeb@gmail.com> (Jim Porter's message of "Wed, 29 Sep 2021 10:59:04 -0700") Message-ID: <875yuj8dm8.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Jim Porter writes: > Perhaps something akin to `font-lock-global-modes'? The help text for > that says: > >> If nil, means no modes have Font Lock mode automatically turned on. >> If t, all modes that support Font Lo [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Jim Porter writes: > Perhaps something akin to `font-lock-global-modes'? The help text for > that says: > >> =EF=BB=BFIf nil, means no modes have Font Lock mode automatically turned= on. >> If t, all modes that support Font Lock mode have it automatically turned= on. >> If a list, it should be a list of =E2=80=98major-mode=E2=80=99 symbol na= mes for >> which Font Lock >> mode should be automatically turned on. The sense of the list is >> negated if it >> begins with =E2=80=98not=E2=80=99. Ah, right -- I thought I remembered that we had some kind of functionality for minor modes like this, but couldn't remember the specifics. > Then the default value for `show-paren-global-modes' could be > `(prog-mode)' or `(prog-mode text-mode)', or even `(not > special-mode)', depending on one's opinions about whether > `show-paren-mode' makes sense for prose. That would cover both this > bug as well as providing an easy way for users to customize the major > modes where `show-paren-mode' is enabled (this is already possible > with `show-paren-local-mode', but it'd be a bit simpler with > `show-paren-global-modes'). Yes, that makes sense to me. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 14:02:30 2021 Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 18:02:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50176 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVduX-0008WS-TG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:02:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50088) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVduV-0008WF-JE for 50895@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:02:28 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:39142) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVduQ-0006lj-57; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:02:22 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3805 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVduP-0005k2-OS; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:02:22 -0400 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 21:02:31 +0300 Message-Id: <83sfxngszs.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Wed, 29 Sep 2021 19:25:39 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#50895: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes References: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 19:25:39 +0200 > Cc: Dmitry Gutov > > > I think defaulting show-paren-mode to "on" is a good change in general, > but it's distracting in some modes. For instance, when presenting data > in a buffer, having point flash around when moving around in the buffer > is not what most people will want. We don't know what "most people" will want, except what we heard during the poll. And no one said anything like that there. FWIW, I'm using show-paren-mode for eons as a global setting in all my modes and buffers, and have nothing negative to report. So evidently at least for some this is not as annoying as it could seem. > Does anybody see a way to enable it by default in non-special buffers > only, but not explicitly switching it off in special-mode buffers for > those that want it? Mode hooks is the usual method. And yes, I'm talking about personal customizations. Nothing wrong with that. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 14:03:55 2021 Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 18:03:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50181 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdvv-00007N-7z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:03:55 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:60444) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdvt-000076-JY for 50895@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:03:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=pKKQsC0ZtHNoONXQjkF2K6umcYS8pRIucbEt7HjSAXE=; b=Z8SU0rm6kaowrp2SDdLA1CkvFs fijHF9JAENuC7rrrOL8ZUS3lNswLkX3ME3TunMW+9vEvYkyBeMxCpFA0d8Ot9SxxtfO+R57vxC4/N OXL8vgbSKJNiRTZvyvCRUyO456PrA8uXi7L4Km7YKYvi+DSmB30fmDlYSm+Pn4PCVGUY=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdvk-0003g9-Uk; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 20:03:47 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#50895: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes References: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> <83sfxngszs.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAFVBMVEV1ESFzDR0uBgwN AwRRChVrJC3////R5sOfAAAAAWJLR0QGYWa4fQAAAAd0SU1FB+UJHREsBuiIyn4AAAFlSURBVDjL bVRRdsQgCIS+9h/2eYBukgs05gBN4hV6/6tUEJHNxg99cWDQGQkgMxAAcp36QJlYRtgEsA+uwQKx jRppOPLbqGR0C8gewAVQTj3KPRXcAq38G1DJLANvwu8yoN2XwHfwJYl6ikUQB2Va/DznvVdA14r5 XKcsSE9jbEDKS5nz1jWpgOl6THWac2NVflNxetZSH/nb3TEgrb+y5B8cgCY8lITmbQDttAac2zC+ 3fCxNmBtsUMuAbBlCBlRtz3Nu9Z4or8Y0+iUg37qcUUXct2Pqa6n5knZ8bAe01KOvKG/P38OVdy8 qojYqzSxUgWWYC26hans0XL2jG6weehGpb2Uwl47ACUpQE51AYZSHbE19hCIy/aOXnsLxUe1EuCS YVQY47Xv9DTYGzMIIuYIjzwzoldECvxBvMnQgij8CUYnmc3xgjQkwli9EhC2+C//ZYA0ErWrBW1v +p+M7gIgW5V/rjY7PtSLYvwAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjEtMDktMjlUMTc6NDQ6MDYr MDA6MDD2LgAaAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIxLTA5LTI5VDE3OjQ0OjA2KzAwOjAwh3O4 pgAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: The Notwist's _Neon Golden_: "Off The Rail" Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 20:03:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83sfxngszs.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 29 Sep 2021 21:02:31 +0300") Message-ID: <871r578dj4.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > We don't know what "most people" will want, except what we heard > during the poll. And no one said anything like that there. I'm not sure anybody even thought about the implications this would have for buffers that are used for display -- I certainly didn't. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > We don't know what "most people" will want, except what we heard > during the poll. And no one said anything like that there. I'm not sure anybody even thought about the implications this would have for buffers that are used for display -- I certainly didn't. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 14:25:56 2021 Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 18:25:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50207 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVeHD-0000hd-S2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:25:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54176) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVeHB-0000hO-OG for 50895@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:25:54 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:39904) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVeH5-0001Cd-9v; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:25:48 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1246 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVeH1-0003s7-Ix; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:25:45 -0400 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 21:25:50 +0300 Message-Id: <83r1d7grwx.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <871r578dj4.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Wed, 29 Sep 2021 20:03:43 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#50895: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes References: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> <83sfxngszs.fsf@gnu.org> <871r578dj4.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru > Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 20:03:43 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > We don't know what "most people" will want, except what we heard > > during the poll. And no one said anything like that there. > > I'm not sure anybody even thought about the implications this would have > for buffers that are used for display -- I certainly didn't. But it takes time to collect the implications and to see whether they are real problems or just personal preferences of the "it annoys me" kind. Once again, I'm using this as a global setting for eons, and didn't see any implications that bothered me. So the implications we hear now are not necessarily clear-cut and objective. We have deliberately and consciously changed the default. This is what changing the defaults look like: people who already liked it can now get rid of their customizations, those who don't like it get to add customizations, and those who never knew it existed get to try it and decide whether they like it or not. It is this third category that is the main audience of such changes. Let's not decide for them what are the implications, let them try the new default and tell us about the implications they saw, from their POV. I think we should only consider clear bugs in this setting, at least until Emacs 28.1 is released. Disabling it sooner, even partially, based on "annoys me" reports makes no sense to me. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 14:32:06 2021 Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 18:32:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50212 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVeNC-0000sV-LB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:32:06 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:60678) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVeN8-0000rv-9f for 50895@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:32:04 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ORZYBiN37/awfXawcIMF4b5hpkuk+mKPVim7G6QXQPI=; b=bI5llz3n7wKUm87nt0RBHw5poy tOGoRok823JV7jhzr3DHtI89Srj/eOfRMZsQ73DwsA7k+GWcRcL3JF5VLS4xo41ZQXgkolpyseyZH u8kBtAIY+UXt7GB0p8JP2mFwPaldbS325vZiZTfwcfoJDZfdzw/gIdNFMToMk0AoMP8M=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mVeMz-0003uh-6M; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 20:31:55 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#50895: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes References: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> <83sfxngszs.fsf@gnu.org> <871r578dj4.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1d7grwx.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEXh3tubXkOrpqda VFocFx3////vWzuAAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+UJHRIbCwR4qK4AAAGYSURBVDjLdZIN ktswCIUp7gXc2QNokQ/gCi6wEvc/U3nIcZzEZRKPzccTP4LotPXFnn769T9A3+tqP9MtVz/xun79 xO9PeXEXSAL4Th/G61cXLzeAtv67f/ppKVvf9jtFX4YVuZEo+zMFE5f4EInHVmycUVvV0Zi1tXhX G08FFykhQyPm3gG+3wtQHy1yi19q5gjiPbQiLD74BMhNiFZt7D1AhAgeoDXeg8wolkjLWS1VjXjV l9SZI6oaQ6VliXqOAH4PiUwJ14kKL+GHYshxFjdBFl5SET1exoiBMVdP69fkZTaeNt6BbIeC3oHY PWCp1xwVt6S5M5hOgDbbCOXySAjNmNOZQM0G2oWkROF5lO0xu2ytEWZrHitQldD/AjDMw4/0BErh 2RP48L9H8lgPJZQ3AdImiAmrAYwTVNOU4jy8UE2g7ZjJA3jJK4px24w+QT+GZP4G3PzDEgy1e3An oahZ/cbyvrFn828vQGqTuaKM8npMeH5CAYQdxqjkXJ8qgY7tTfBYk1xxTU1MS55bLXP7cV4eCfAP H0SJXuYZ/pcAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjEtMDktMjlUMTg6Mjc6MTErMDA6MDDb0Zp/ AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIxLTA5LTI5VDE4OjI3OjExKzAwOjAwqowiwwAAAABJRU5E rkJggg== X-Now-Playing: The Notwist's _Lichter_: "Lichter 3" Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 20:31:50 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83r1d7grwx.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 29 Sep 2021 21:25:50 +0300") Message-ID: <87wnmz6xnt.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> I'm not sure anybody even thought about the implications this would have >> for buffers that are used for display -- I certainly didn't. > > But it takes time to collect the implications and to see [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> I'm not sure anybody even thought about the implications this would have >> for buffers that are used for display -- I certainly didn't. > > But it takes time to collect the implications and to see whether they > are real problems or just personal preferences of the "it annoys me" > kind. Once again, I'm using this as a global setting for eons, and > didn't see any implications that bothered me. So the implications we > hear now are not necessarily clear-cut and objective. Sure, I'm not arguing for changing anything this second. I opened this bug report to see if anybody had any input into what options we had if we wanted to tweak the behaviour, and Jim Porter's suggestion seems promising to me. It seems like if we implement something like that, then people who have (show-paren-mode 1) in their .emacs files already won't be affected at all, and people who don't have it will have it switched on in editing-related modes, which is what was discussed on emacs-devel (and was (I think) the only thing that was discussed there). > It is this third category that is the main audience of such changes. > Let's not decide for them what are the implications, let them try the > new default and tell us about the implications they saw, from their > POV. That's what's happening -- both Juri and I saw the changes in a help buffer and didn't like it, so we piped up. The system is working as intended. :-) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 14:40:50 2021 Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 18:40:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50225 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVeVe-000166-09 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:40:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58300) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVeVc-00015r-M5 for 50895@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:40:49 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:40458) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVeVW-0005Lk-Rk; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:40:42 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2155 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVeVU-0005BA-Jf; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:40:41 -0400 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 21:40:47 +0300 Message-Id: <83o88bgr80.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87wnmz6xnt.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Wed, 29 Sep 2021 20:31:50 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#50895: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes References: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> <83sfxngszs.fsf@gnu.org> <871r578dj4.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1d7grwx.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnmz6xnt.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru > Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 20:31:50 +0200 > > Sure, I'm not arguing for changing anything this second. I opened this > bug report to see if anybody had any input into what options we had if > we wanted to tweak the behaviour, and Jim Porter's suggestion seems > promising to me. It's okay to discuss this, but I implore us not to make any further changes just yet, except to fix clear bugs. > It seems like if we implement something like that, then people who have > (show-paren-mode 1) in their .emacs files already won't be affected at > all Those people are not interesting for this discussion. We changed the default not for them. > and people who don't have it will have it switched on in > editing-related modes, which is what was discussed on emacs-devel (and > was (I think) the only thing that was discussed there). I see no reason to turn it on/off partially at this time. The decision, based on a poll, was to turn it on globally. I don't see any serious reasons yet to back off, not even partially. > > It is this third category that is the main audience of such changes. > > Let's not decide for them what are the implications, let them try the > > new default and tell us about the implications they saw, from their > > POV. > > That's what's happening -- both Juri and I saw the changes in a help > buffer and didn't like it, so we piped up. And your feedback is noted. But we shouldn't act on it, not just yet. For now, if you don't like it, just turn it off, it's very simple. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 14:51:37 2021 Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 18:51:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50230 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVeg5-0001OP-3Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:51:37 -0400 Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]:30330) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVeg1-0001OD-L6 for 50895@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:51:36 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246630.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 18TIKHbm013609; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 18:51:32 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2021-07-09; bh=Wtxu5ML8dfP1YBTCfyZVMS091WYtk+G46O+2DyHXzuI=; b=yY/8VYxCVc95zwIsDI/nAyhqgxVVXLxhCYQKH9Oqvd1kCyAhsH13PmNth+/tEp881cFw Da3cXb0GlEXJOHthRVn3QEi+DbJ+ipg7UhIlcqSDS/WLQa07ciqAhIse2VHf/d8QtuOU JzNjTGRquIayP9quPaBN5AfNfvB6CfIbeGAXzvsDCYaeuS1g/DMBoNoqQhvzA/eVDYNk KD5HUoA4DTWQQa2S6S5QTqHNanYSC6aFq38XJTyyqF5ra9dcDUJmv1VnwsPeEU8oRaHm bz4Opmkn8RXyBmZ6OgiXbQfdUSEExaa9hoYHX7+fcaFycD1oAoBaLwG+yvJsjeWSd4+x 7w== Received: from aserp3020.oracle.com (aserp3020.oracle.com [141.146.126.70]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 3bcf6cx2pr-11 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e29f8c06-5233-4724-7830-08d9837499ce X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Sep 2021 18:11:46.7982 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 9yjzh6NFah2HzUwUiKnBe/AzydvUV+FpfA7CQKEFfGedtNoQq4fLJFORM4U/HzFcrfi/UTDgnQBCisb0/ZlMFQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR10MB3191 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10122 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=909 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2109230001 definitions=main-2109290105 X-Proofpoint-GUID: NfvhXmeb9Q1vZKqK6SWTxCpzZ3hhOvq0 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: NfvhXmeb9Q1vZKqK6SWTxCpzZ3hhOvq0 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: "50895@debbugs.gnu.org" <50895@debbugs.gnu.org>, "dgutov@yandex.ru" X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > > We don't know what "most people" will want, except what we heard > > during the poll. And no one said anything like that there. >=20 > I'm not sure anybody even thought about the implications this would > have for buffers that are used for display -- I certainly didn't. Certainly those (such as myself and apparently Eli) who have long had it customized to ON know those implications (whatever they might be), and yet those users chose to turn it on globally. Maybe what you meant is that users who haven't had it ON haven't thought about the implications of turning it on globally, and some (e.g. you) of them might find it distracting in some modes. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 16:02:18 2021 Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 20:02:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50334 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVfmU-0005UG-Ho for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 16:02:18 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f47.google.com ([209.85.221.47]:39606) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVfmP-0005Tv-PZ for 50895@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 16:02:17 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f47.google.com with SMTP id d26so6173153wrb.6 for <50895@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:02:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xtFeMu0HOV+iqhdQL8pcCWwslxj6MTC0WC9pqY+wsuk=; b=I1XKREIG2rsu4ubqGbcgBhRG1IYD8iONa3CkIG6OMhg+UguGzPCr0P51KYdoQ5Yk2+ VGnVP+GS+moAmZiob7t5ZlvVso69OXT+8LTtHByB7EOA6RTus1uUZEfdCf7KTci9D8nQ nv4mCYqTwe2bBD0Au6cbj9qSV9kZKD004qqG79s6DZ2QgRRYBvOpndVDmU7GEN9lQj7r nzns2uphezSM9d5DhX1ualqALDtJDhJEKbn6j4i8uvF7rGu0Ps9S9xjR4ik9h3RO0uH3 IemgbSX1nMkd0xZNSUQOUF0cNAShiESO2bJcVtu/VbDkyEGr0X3P/PRCpyQlDrVklzzV 6+UA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=xtFeMu0HOV+iqhdQL8pcCWwslxj6MTC0WC9pqY+wsuk=; b=b2isUWFIqiaKihZ4jSWJ+hFODvqh6awTbnKYg41UdSDkJp2/pv7nmznWWd9jVK8CYp soREVKpAu4qE9tXIWkgwe4LtU9XG60eGyjOJTxsWMc7KMRx0d/iizXuC6Wtq1m0hy6Pe sVidlLicAghdFhSvwaTKdwZrOl7N8A3RMpONOYvnGRLx13mRGfqFbpqREqOzAjR6pBQc 8AyWlRtI7+5d1Tc7WBEu76iFEOcxCAp3YhVpMc2/CTMRypKjyOw0zUvQjBQ4hVF9fCDQ ibHc3kWFCUNy026bLwK7rxTbKpne6iF3bMYFSt9VlpdDvU5xV7mbw6NhYsJtKTStFCTJ oR2A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530neCQ1bkpUAMYD5N03WDNPDxrHGqp9fyF69O0BAZcqG5oiUZwL SM2p2KzVjmNDt/eAAE6By1KCTh89iYk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzLp8PsuTZKZht+uoFAyZHsK4OqxVQZGSXnyRwllzyetez6bxcKlGv8aZWzPlkBAoRHE+sR/g== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f6c7:: with SMTP id y7mr2142264wrp.44.1632945727724; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.6] ([46.251.119.176]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id z7sm2580001wmi.12.2021.09.29.13.02.05 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#50895: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Jim Porter References: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> <1cf60c2c-7ecc-631b-22c3-6d779476aeeb@gmail.com> <875yuj8dm8.fsf@gnus.org> From: Dmitry Gutov Message-ID: <7867800d-f770-0316-6659-7ff6f310cd57@yandex.ru> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 23:02:03 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <875yuj8dm8.fsf@gnus.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) On 29.09.2021 21:01, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Jim Porter writes: > >> Perhaps something akin to `font-lock-global-modes'? The help text for >> that says: >> >>> If nil, means no modes have Font Lock mode automatically turned on. >>> If t, all modes that support Font Lock mode have it automatically turned on. >>> If a list, it should be a list of ‘major-mode’ symbol names for >>> which Font Lock >>> mode should be automatically turned on. The sense of the list is >>> negated if it >>> begins with ‘not’. > > Ah, right -- I thought I remembered that we had some kind of > functionality for minor modes like this, but couldn't remember the > specifics. Unlike font-lock-global-mode, it seems in this case the code will be checking show-paren-global-modes at runtime (inside show-paren-function, I guess). The check should special-case buffer-local values of show-paren-mode, so it's still possible to enable show-paren-local-mode in buffers where show-paren-mode is disabled via the new variable. >> Then the default value for `show-paren-global-modes' could be >> `(prog-mode)' or `(prog-mode text-mode)', or even `(not >> special-mode)', depending on one's opinions about whether >> `show-paren-mode' makes sense for prose. That would cover both this >> bug as well as providing an easy way for users to customize the major >> modes where `show-paren-mode' is enabled (this is already possible >> with `show-paren-local-mode', but it'd be a bit simpler with >> `show-paren-global-modes'). > > Yes, that makes sense to me. The new var, if we add it now, should probably be just t by default. To avoid changing the behavior for those who customized show-paren-mode for many years, and yet allow an easy customization point for others who can by annoyed with the change. I don't know how to avoid changing the behavior for existing users of this mode, unless we make the variable itself take different values (can we?), and have it used instead of adding show-paren-global-modes. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 30 02:46:00 2021 Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2021 06:46:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51211 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVppQ-0001MN-Hz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 02:46:00 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:38348) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVppO-0001M6-SQ for 50895@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 02:45:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=45Q7VRSiGWlYtOPjLeGK3nYfAR5J7cEoY3foriGjhgg=; b=ExTSNvbQSyuztLlcayj4zYeFgD 2rQBxdX8kVyE8LjSJPtMT9XjLodjxTQRVf/CMZt/L3wZJYKBrv+bGblIQen+NVys8U1LZr/Ao16Hy I3whmsjHeY+YBQMEnMrnhI5S10Ym/hk/TGFmn2uVT+XdEUiwOzopHDh1bTXwCymTfCjs=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mVppF-0002ew-AH; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 08:45:52 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Dmitry Gutov Subject: Re: bug#50895: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes References: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> <1cf60c2c-7ecc-631b-22c3-6d779476aeeb@gmail.com> <875yuj8dm8.fsf@gnus.org> <7867800d-f770-0316-6659-7ff6f310cd57@yandex.ru> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEX8ZXG4jK1PneGw fZ/rdYv///9EMUWXAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+UJHgYpFRqdZf4AAAGnSURBVDjLbdTh ccMgDAVgpWWACrMAjgfoxR4Aau0/U99D2Ca+8KOX8EVCQnZF3tZjnjXHeZ6f/JYMq3TIqtqhpqrJ koNqNYsNgpqqWbULtMEj1aQIQdgEyO0joZpW5CUo4su+2bavK45mgEM7hzVhEbiv6Q4hVRfAz0ew C/QORYygb5DQTREdrgdNd8C1xGndzByqA/o1Pzn2cgNug/vtGrGZY3QQ/parl7ScEOzcJyRMxEHs mgdTZY0dhkVIqadCLhlSgRr4AZa8tXawcrwH2AD5DdKQqsFRboc8gBTshwF0jtkzAx4/crZ09Yvv tYT7psg+mQD6THEpB7yQVj9A+UMhSwNUg7/bcEG6GEBnjXpFVIY3iHg60XsqMnQLyBkV4bnl08LK 2mUqQFMHaRDwBmXNB5jGA3hC5BnxHb699isC5QZC7WDDGcF2CRdkdWDEJPuXV0tgH2gdUDHBPwKT Rw6bnW+Ct68VNS+hwXlXBzyF0zhvl6Ct2l/pESfsJl/+7yEU2/dpVX8/OEWcvfQn4vu5rutrkSK8 3pbJ58446U+3yDn52/oHBBOCRLYxkJ8AAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjEtMDktMzBUMDY6 NDE6MjErMDA6MDCNwQ/DAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIxLTA5LTMwVDA2OjQxOjIxKzAw OjAw/Jy3fwAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: The Notwist's _Close to the Glass_: "Kong" Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 08:45:48 +0200 In-Reply-To: <7867800d-f770-0316-6659-7ff6f310cd57@yandex.ru> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Wed, 29 Sep 2021 23:02:03 +0300") Message-ID: <87pmsq5zoj.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Dmitry Gutov writes: > Unlike font-lock-global-mode, it seems in this case the code will be > checking show-paren-global-modes at runtime (inside > show-paren-function, I guess). Looking at show-paren-mode again -- I thought we'd agreed to make it a globalized minor mode instead of a global minor mode? I.e., define it with `define-globalized-minor-mode'. Did that prove to be d [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org, Jim Porter X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Dmitry Gutov writes: > Unlike font-lock-global-mode, it seems in this case the code will be > checking show-paren-global-modes at runtime (inside > show-paren-function, I guess). Looking at show-paren-mode again -- I thought we'd agreed to make it a globalized minor mode instead of a global minor mode? I.e., define it with `define-globalized-minor-mode'. Did that prove to be difficult to do (i.e., not backwards-compatible)? If we do that, then we'd define it exactly like global-font-lock-mode is defined (with the turn-on-paren-mode-if-desired logic). > The new var, if we add it now, should probably be just t by default. > > To avoid changing the behavior for those who customized > show-paren-mode for many years, and yet allow an easy customization > point for others who can by annoyed with the change. I don't see why the default value of a new `paren-mode-global-modes' variable would affect people who are saying (show-paren-mode 1) in their init files? It should only affect those who haven't made any such customisation already. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 30 05:02:29 2021 Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2021 09:02:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51449 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVrxV-00079P-Ad for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 05:02:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51814) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVrxT-00079C-9E for 50895@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 05:02:28 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:36646) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVrxN-00005g-Tb; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 05:02:21 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3352 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVrxN-0008WF-GE; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 05:02:21 -0400 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 12:02:29 +0300 Message-Id: <83h7e2h1wa.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Dmitry Gutov In-Reply-To: <7867800d-f770-0316-6659-7ff6f310cd57@yandex.ru> (message from Dmitry Gutov on Wed, 29 Sep 2021 23:02:03 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#50895: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes References: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> <1cf60c2c-7ecc-631b-22c3-6d779476aeeb@gmail.com> <875yuj8dm8.fsf@gnus.org> <7867800d-f770-0316-6659-7ff6f310cd57@yandex.ru> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org, jporterbugs@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Dmitry Gutov > Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 23:02:03 +0300 > Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> Then the default value for `show-paren-global-modes' could be > >> `(prog-mode)' or `(prog-mode text-mode)', or even `(not > >> special-mode)', depending on one's opinions about whether > >> `show-paren-mode' makes sense for prose. That would cover both this > >> bug as well as providing an easy way for users to customize the major > >> modes where `show-paren-mode' is enabled (this is already possible > >> with `show-paren-local-mode', but it'd be a bit simpler with > >> `show-paren-global-modes'). > > > > Yes, that makes sense to me. > > The new var, if we add it now, should probably be just t by default. > > To avoid changing the behavior for those who customized show-paren-mode > for many years, and yet allow an easy customization point for others who > can by annoyed with the change. > > I don't know how to avoid changing the behavior for existing users of > this mode, unless we make the variable itself take different values (can > we?), and have it used instead of adding show-paren-global-modes. IMNSHO, it would be wrong for us to do that now. show-paren-mode in its traditional global implementation was tested for many years by many users, and we have a good understanding of what it does. Turning it on by default makes that well-understood feature available to everyone. The problems with that should be minor, mostly related to personal preferences, as always with defaults. By contrast, the suggestion here is to turn on by default something we never tried before. While the chances of it to introduce some serious regressions are probably not high, they are definitely higher than simply turning on the mode globally, something we already did. It makes little sense to me to argue for a long time about a feature, have a user poll about its turning on, then turn on some different feature by default. That's not a healthy way of changing defaults in Emacs, and it runs a higher risk of causing unintended problems. There's absolutely no justification for that. "Perfect is the enemy of good." There's nothing particularly wrong with the current global settings, except that some people don't like the results. That some don't like it is expected: that's why this can be customized to turn the feature off. But I see no real reasons to complicate the mode or invent new untested aspects of it, just because a few people dislike it or have their doubts or ideas about how to turn it on/off selectively. So I don't think we should change anything in this by default. If someone really wants a way of enabling this more selectively, that's fine, but then this new behavior should not be the default, because that's not what we decided and not what we asked the users to provide the feedback about. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 30 05:27:00 2021 Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2021 09:27:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51472 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVsLE-0007jP-DS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 05:27:00 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:39758) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVsL9-0007j7-66 for 50895@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 05:26:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=OI0AqiEWieGQm5DGkYov/pkKz8QTprCxsnUiW0ZKy0o=; b=mocC0RZO5Njxu37mOfWNRDsN1j e2egu8oJw9SVONJRjQZP/8593chJ5j2ZJI9lIluae/Q+c+Q4h31up8bGYKMH7r29wJhxacIUVipvh rJO9qhcrc2fUD4o13kW8to7HpbRj+J2hqYuPtmC4UZ0CXaMj9eWt+7h18OL14zId5nSI=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mVsKz-0004DV-O1; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 11:26:48 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#50895: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes References: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> <1cf60c2c-7ecc-631b-22c3-6d779476aeeb@gmail.com> <875yuj8dm8.fsf@gnus.org> <7867800d-f770-0316-6659-7ff6f310cd57@yandex.ru> <83h7e2h1wa.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAAlQTFRF PEZFqbOn////C9F+/gAAAAFiS0dEAmYLfGQAAAAJcEhZcwAACxIAAAsSAdLdfvwAAAAHdElNRQfl CR4JGR3AXJwCAAAAtklEQVQoz53SsQ7EIAgAUEhkd9D/0eS6awL//ysn2iJtbzqHhhdUUAvwz8js hS6uot+0IAMobYOkJ4OMMfeJAdsIF6gha0bgWvZCWVU98gKrwgktfE5a81AOse2wuwzYNO2BfkKe gBuyB3rQDYf1tlPXGWKzoyJH6HxeHY2gH1ox6JoWV/kkZdxuljqgp8Fr5663KZwY2u6yvFreqB9D 6sUyHUYXE4F4v0Ai9xz2J7hnmuAHwoy/b/Bi7ODUWv0AAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjEt MDktMzBUMDk6MjU6MjkrMDA6MDB4AP6oAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIxLTA5LTMwVDA5 OjI1OjI5KzAwOjAwCV1GFAAAADh0RVh0aWNjOmNvcHlyaWdodABDb3B5cmlnaHQgKGMpIDE5OTgg SGV3bGV0dC1QYWNrYXJkIENvbXBhbnn5V3k3AAAAIXRFWHRpY2M6ZGVzY3JpcHRpb24Ac1JHQiBJ RUM2MTk2Ni0yLjFXrdpHAAAAJnRFWHRpY2M6bWFudWZhY3R1cmVyAElFQyBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lmll Yy5jaBx/AEwAAAA3dEVYdGljYzptb2RlbABJRUMgNjE5NjYtMi4xIERlZmF1bHQgUkdCIGNvbG91 ciBzcGFjZSAtIHNSR0JEU0ipAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: The Notwist's _Vertigo Days_: "Ship (feat. Saya)" Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 11:26:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83h7e2h1wa.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 30 Sep 2021 12:02:29 +0300") Message-ID: <87wnmy2z3f.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > By contrast, the suggestion here is to turn on by default something we > never tried before. While the chances of it to introduce some serious > regressions are probably not high, they are definitel [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org, jporterbugs@gmail.com, Dmitry Gutov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > By contrast, the suggestion here is to turn on by default something we > never tried before. While the chances of it to introduce some serious > regressions are probably not high, they are definitely higher than > simply turning on the mode globally, something we already did. Sorry, I thought it was understood that the discussions here (about rewriting how show-paren-mode is implemented) is for Emacs 29. I'm not proposing doing anything further about the implementation in Emacs 28. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 30 06:02:21 2021 Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2021 10:02:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51518 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVstR-0000DC-8C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 06:02:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35706) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVstQ-0000Cy-Cg for 50895@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 06:02:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:38028) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVstK-00085y-Qm; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 06:02:14 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3044 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVstH-0003EH-Vp; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 06:02:14 -0400 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 13:02:20 +0300 Message-Id: <83a6jugz4j.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87wnmy2z3f.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Thu, 30 Sep 2021 11:26:44 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#50895: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes References: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> <1cf60c2c-7ecc-631b-22c3-6d779476aeeb@gmail.com> <875yuj8dm8.fsf@gnus.org> <7867800d-f770-0316-6659-7ff6f310cd57@yandex.ru> <83h7e2h1wa.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnmy2z3f.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org, jporterbugs@gmail.com, dgutov@yandex.ru X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: Dmitry Gutov , jporterbugs@gmail.com, > 50895@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 11:26:44 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > By contrast, the suggestion here is to turn on by default something we > > never tried before. While the chances of it to introduce some serious > > regressions are probably not high, they are definitely higher than > > simply turning on the mode globally, something we already did. > > Sorry, I thought it was understood that the discussions here (about > rewriting how show-paren-mode is implemented) is for Emacs 29. I'm not > proposing doing anything further about the implementation in Emacs 28. Ah, okay. Sorry for my misunderstanding. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 30 07:20:02 2021 Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2021 11:20:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51586 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVu6c-0002Ia-Am for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 07:20:02 -0400 Received: from mail-lf1-f47.google.com ([209.85.167.47]:33781) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVu6a-0002I3-GG for 50895@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 07:20:01 -0400 Received: by mail-lf1-f47.google.com with SMTP id i19so20800535lfu.0 for <50895@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 04:20:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=9z+iYqWHeErczBjoK81ulPjdRXnNNZtCz6XXRhHRj4g=; b=R+tEUVjmJUhgZ6guccCI7VK8QCSzWLTDBe3cZuGAPUhdwBeMKUj3YbnxdFu1pc8dy8 2iw2a3Cu2K0LSv1LdJUmNuX+5Y3D9+V1Ew8uwbR5U0vLncZsmBtsU1aFQhI5OZw6vgBi Os3U33y3PlPTDQMA8QAavjEsCREIy8R1Y554sCWHMrXxutVcgzZMDreO69cDjDWUVw87 0U/gPw/UHoLcC99qOsI33vWeWcvBaNYkgLrrVZ5DPnucTXjSYbXArq6G8jtG+cdj3QpA UaUrRoEsHhqvOdpugY6wowl+pNthMSJV6JSYcSDqNi2CsjSU6wSD+49Dhfwg6mImAkuF 2b7g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=9z+iYqWHeErczBjoK81ulPjdRXnNNZtCz6XXRhHRj4g=; b=J3rzxnm2hbb1DaTDgyAz5jMh/428cZgYwH7i//KEmgPOyFXx11rqZOovXaOuxgEJGC LgBSNWJc1cgo1pkipMhB8EWmD4UjGWyTQi+IIllqnDYvUBIXtLFQBHSmtU2NKlwfzqvg EHqespJVVTqflBmVdEhulWwMpajqfxj54166o9SLeAaen38BcxLFaIeAohtq7TSposA8 sOD/W7z4R4jLPMdjMb8yyAj0SBtvJH5Db3P3i0BRfVtyHr1XMnWBozRM2BkOagXA73Wg APX1N8LbPDETyn69GHhb2mzxvBTLDSmv1GfqGDHCbKi+cjfKvrwMa67n6AMxwrYUmU4z qFLA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531EuNr5XL96dcLMyPWqrelp079JLa237GjQdUKcBonhUXrNDwtM 95zhMp7jHOgOzSMuUB7GefbkAuErCEWDwA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwwLlyreTfTkw94wQ7pjK4wjAtiaJOuIEWIi/beDoQsZz9HbTNyasS2YX+6XfM/6hkI6IdRtA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:304b:: with SMTP id b11mr5153520lfb.190.1633000794153; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 04:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.43.35] ([178.252.127.239]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id s11sm335143lfd.262.2021.09.30.04.19.53 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 30 Sep 2021 04:19:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#50895: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes To: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> <1cf60c2c-7ecc-631b-22c3-6d779476aeeb@gmail.com> <875yuj8dm8.fsf@gnus.org> <7867800d-f770-0316-6659-7ff6f310cd57@yandex.ru> <87pmsq5zoj.fsf@gnus.org> From: Dmitry Gutov Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 14:19:47 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87pmsq5zoj.fsf@gnus.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 30.09.2021 09:45, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Dmitry Gutov writes: > >> Unlike font-lock-global-mode, it seems in this case the code will be >> checking show-paren-global-modes at runtime (inside [...] Content analysis details: (1.9 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (dgutov[at]yandex.ru) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.2 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.167.47 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [209.85.167.47 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 1.5 RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB RBL: SORBS: sender is an abusable web server [178.252.127.239 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] 0.2 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different -0.1 NICE_REPLY_A Looks like a legit reply (A) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org, Jim Porter X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) On 30.09.2021 09:45, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Dmitry Gutov writes: > >> Unlike font-lock-global-mode, it seems in this case the code will be >> checking show-paren-global-modes at runtime (inside >> show-paren-function, I guess). > > Looking at show-paren-mode again -- I thought we'd agreed to make it a > globalized minor mode instead of a global minor mode? I.e., define it > with `define-globalized-minor-mode'. Did that prove to be difficult to > do (i.e., not backwards-compatible)? The current implementation seems both more efficient (which is good for an on-by-default mode) and actually easier to do, due to how show-paren-mode works. > If we do that, then we'd define it exactly like global-font-lock-mode is > defined (with the turn-on-paren-mode-if-desired logic). We don't really have buffer-local timers, AFAIK. So the same nuances should apply. >> The new var, if we add it now, should probably be just t by default. >> >> To avoid changing the behavior for those who customized >> show-paren-mode for many years, and yet allow an easy customization >> point for others who can by annoyed with the change. > > I don't see why the default value of a new `paren-mode-global-modes' > variable would affect people who are saying (show-paren-mode 1) in their > init files? It should only affect those who haven't made any such > customisation already. The value of font-lock-global-modes affects how global-font-lock-mode works. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 30 09:40:02 2021 Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2021 13:40:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51768 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVwI6-00083i-Ch for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 09:40:02 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:42046) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVwI1-000831-08 for 50895@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 09:40:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=wTRDqY+bhWXW8MpWaPWG2eJ+JDDbvHK8M/L+i7AZgLE=; b=Tae6mfC9Yb8Gjxq2rN7/MjUtCm iKa+6Ru2/PDVuuXj+X8iz+3CkairYkHiHUpMLUHmemsHYC8kNkwQL8PKn1iuSrv5xRSwG9EssddUV GV7Rh/5Efs8XMc2keNJCs5AOaXhfWJ7JtWUYNzXxlz5muQMTizWKfqexyKEb+XMGycdc=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mVwHq-0006Fa-W5; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:39:50 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Dmitry Gutov Subject: Re: bug#50895: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes References: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> <1cf60c2c-7ecc-631b-22c3-6d779476aeeb@gmail.com> <875yuj8dm8.fsf@gnus.org> <7867800d-f770-0316-6659-7ff6f310cd57@yandex.ru> <87pmsq5zoj.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEWXlWNpalDFzrf/ //+6G1XXAAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAlwSFlzAAALEgAACxIB0t1+/AAAAAd0SU1FB+UJHgw4DVe/ W24AAAEDSURBVCjPbdG9boQwDAfwfxCWKqYghb0duvAUQTqWm5wq3ts36XBT99tvaKWKp6zzBQw1 QsoPJ8GJgRQGw6aBf0A4QOQPTCLzkTlDdQKmHQbUnwHs0xZd1eC8vg00ok0j3ZgbDIww27nCBu8r AJEVrqATrZOogCXHNcO5UWIDmV6PsA4F1jtaLgV9WBiMmmGS0Z+gZRc8SQy+og8SVkWXQDehA9+B XlCBaLSyBrH6f99gFFzxPn2INOhQM7ZgTadhh4Ikfr6VDRZ9IkpGQkxj1HJC4ApDd3E75GcwDXCv jrRqzPl6490feLPYga9PTA3b9sDku9yfdOEkyN3WL78oXdz+AJswgvt/SGGhAAAAWmVYSWZNTQAq AAAACAAFARIAAwAAAAEAAQAAARoABQAAAAEAAABKARsABQAAAAEAAABSASgAAwAAAAEAAgAAAhMA AwAAAAEAAQAAAAAAAAAAAEgAAAABAAAASAAAAAEfUvc0AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIx LTA5LTMwVDEyOjU2OjEzKzAwOjAw6jVWUAAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMS0wOS0zMFQx Mjo1NjoxMyswMDowMJto7uwAAAAXdEVYdGV4aWY6WUNiQ3JQb3NpdGlvbmluZwAxrA+AYwAAAABJ RU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Body =?utf-8?Q?Me=CF=80a's?= _The Work Is Slow_: "Money Tree" Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:39:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Thu, 30 Sep 2021 14:19:47 +0300") Message-ID: <877dey2ndr.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Dmitry Gutov writes: > The value of font-lock-global-modes affects how global-font-lock-mode works. Right. But we could make (show-paren-mode 1) set the mooted show-paren-global-modes to t. Since it's show-paren-mode is on by default, show-paren-global-modes would basically only be used by those peo [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org, Jim Porter X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Dmitry Gutov writes: > The value of font-lock-global-modes affects how global-font-lock-mode works. Right. But we could make (show-paren-mode 1) set the mooted show-paren-global-modes to t. Since it's show-paren-mode is on by default, show-paren-global-modes would basically only be used by those people who's not explicitly saying (show-paren-mode 1). And (show-paren-mode -1), for that matter. So introducing a variable like that (with a default value of `(not special-mode)') should not affect people who are already explicitly switching the mode on or off. Or am I missing something? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 30 13:00:53 2021 Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2021 17:00:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53861 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVzQT-0008RV-8J for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 13:00:53 -0400 Received: from mail-lf1-f42.google.com ([209.85.167.42]:46830) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVzQQ-0008RH-OQ for 50895@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 13:00:51 -0400 Received: by mail-lf1-f42.google.com with SMTP id z24so28175790lfu.13 for <50895@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 10:00:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mpAVTxtapCbLTQBCChDBrTsR/qgn5ZDkWp8GAyn9o0s=; b=evJZT8pjRCAzTYGZ23JzPLX/06oXfmm7KMT8n4DwZa8VODMyL2g1UVXRtafJGc+iD4 cay/fUytaWFcwD327LiON6TmDHGB/0qHcWEZFN6G8v6MmdLuoj2DGYaNAE4p0gyH66zA ziT+pGhDwbGz4Rk5ZXryHzZoJ7qX7iCh+RYLXVDuGptfl4rmV+OWGlufaIj6LWadgtcU jzuGsyqAYoreXlFjcRiZmw9eEgUkhbefSyLoHDRq5MzayGqtF93bQDcZTUQdueecOc+D ebicSi6q1DTqfaht1lryiKWQMYgH/AL84s7t0APiDbn1Dd8nNJtVHYbZl7k43OTeSCh+ rXOQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=mpAVTxtapCbLTQBCChDBrTsR/qgn5ZDkWp8GAyn9o0s=; b=5YyAt6VFNb3L5j9bbC7xGl7phP9cz+GW9Z1gVTugX6rLloW8x3RQW+hWbsl4qCn5dT S05RvQenTRY6R6VDu2BxWdEzspBnFw1KbqSbIlWuVzyfZMdn5KF0FV1WdyVxtNns/9EA oJwjggvtwrW5gOJcyDUEESNF6aImIOpKaUa2hyBmxMV5/6rMOa7nY+V5fL+IJqJ1oHQc Aysda8Mt7IZMvA4RqAkrSpXekynoCBfadh75IuKR0wLxLSZ3NYvpgXMCUR5uDmPRyILX K1Q9k5ZJ6S9U0I0C6l/qJ95NkVn8JKR0aTtd6pF7MOxh0eRjg2coUSsrB/8eqiA5KO+7 eZAg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530f+razjZJGbU2TbxkZ2FtTZXpMnAJQplTBTQq+IueR0Q9DAKOZ k/pzk/q4tXKtvlaPtCFXYW9PmONEty45kQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxTs/8hnomJ28N/8rdHUjY6pCgsUxOcJMyc7KsQ8inUBDAZZuan55UYx55PmHnhl2bHjbzAyQ== X-Received: by 2002:a19:7b08:: with SMTP id w8mr319379lfc.76.1633021243159; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 10:00:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.113] ([178.252.127.239]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id s11sm393029ljc.80.2021.09.30.10.00.42 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 30 Sep 2021 10:00:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#50895: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes To: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> <1cf60c2c-7ecc-631b-22c3-6d779476aeeb@gmail.com> <875yuj8dm8.fsf@gnus.org> <7867800d-f770-0316-6659-7ff6f310cd57@yandex.ru> <87pmsq5zoj.fsf@gnus.org> <877dey2ndr.fsf@gnus.org> From: Dmitry Gutov Message-ID: <7535661b-a9e8-d5f6-c156-bf39a394255b@yandex.ru> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 20:00:41 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <877dey2ndr.fsf@gnus.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 30.09.2021 16:39, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Dmitry Gutov writes: > >> The value of font-lock-global-modes affects how global-font-lock-mode works. > > Right. But we could make (show-paren-mode 1 [...] Content analysis details: (1.9 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 1.5 RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB RBL: SORBS: sender is an abusable web server [178.252.127.239 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (raaahh[at]gmail.com) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.2 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.167.42 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [209.85.167.42 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.2 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different -0.1 NICE_REPLY_A Looks like a legit reply (A) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org, Jim Porter X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) On 30.09.2021 16:39, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Dmitry Gutov writes: > >> The value of font-lock-global-modes affects how global-font-lock-mode works. > > Right. But we could make (show-paren-mode 1) set the mooted > show-paren-global-modes to t. Since it's show-paren-mode is on by > default, show-paren-global-modes would basically only be used by those > people who's not explicitly saying (show-paren-mode 1). > > And (show-paren-mode -1), for that matter. > > So introducing a variable like that (with a default value of `(not > special-mode)') should not affect people who are already explicitly > switching the mode on or off. > > Or am I missing something? That should be doable, yes. I just can't think of another mode that does something similar. So this kind of special behavior might catch people by surprise. Anyway, this is not a strong objection, and I might be convinced by a particular implementation. We could even adopt this practice in more places, if it really makes sense to people. At the moment, though, I'm more in favor of adding a *-global-modes variable, and then, having collected feedback, changing its default in some future version. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 30 13:03:15 2021 Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2021 17:03:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53866 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVzSl-0008VP-Lv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 13:03:15 -0400 Received: from mail-lf1-f49.google.com ([209.85.167.49]:39461) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVzSj-0008V8-W0 for 50895@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 13:03:14 -0400 Received: by mail-lf1-f49.google.com with SMTP id i25so28096430lfg.6 for <50895@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 10:03:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/yV+k6RM10bFutzjYlmqVu2fQASwECU3gJQR+/hQmVQ=; b=Agq6BvwtYrbb8gEzhFp8MR8k3FKYyXofWEsja2L/PWZWoh1gvrfHhdQHUB33ce224h MQ7t/CjppYdvcHI98x57E5mlCHu4RhnvWRTvCIf9nXPaxPrTUY9K3aHf3JyXM/WoaD3K 3jE3kbPaNcn5eukLJUbh7fkIbY650kyzSQhdfk5q4h9YKF6/LxpTL/VziC7Hb/n4cCZA LWcPCh1PaPsHoapfTBPJy70Oa0J2Im2/eTbPnTd6UmdwNZioky1vLvJ+tMt8a5cviNhm DxxxhE5SFGC8jkQueQT/VmEa0HIoNnkixCydSBAgxSlnIKXkqpwrz/PgFtUgDmLQeggu tCzg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=/yV+k6RM10bFutzjYlmqVu2fQASwECU3gJQR+/hQmVQ=; b=AwoTHvbm8SaBrDueaJ4nIIoqmjVz6q81fgntn71Vva9U8ZN0R+1X1UWccFOe1cc4YM 8mx+4HANOYimOPjqjm9NfkRPqtaWVrwysfeqrwZa8pPC7Z5QDDJIqwHij8U1Src0eEZp kF246u2EffIxJ8YRRqbaatzrhKpzAQTgQDl8TwBEWUVaMnSEiJceMtDG8sqtgkztaomU sUy4scexszuLflne9V34E2PCIn/4PKkqH1OAvBilvZD/TBpLdCaCs/SLhbRmq6xki9G3 6+vBD6LfeZf4e5QuS+/LljkrBBQB7tZMjWRx0FuJi+2lWry5OYipCS/trP6igs/n/ppa 9tTw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530WGbDudUv5aQwV6JzFJ9Qu+mtZjnXHCmmNv2wJjiXQmqaD1KP/ 8AZ+/Igar98Qmekyw45F5xE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwNWDX2Sarhs0ju37OWJ2YKAvrI1IWxuiE90jh5uDWQO67Z2pD/+eQ4Y52nTCqhKXq77TB7rQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:3087:: with SMTP id z7mr319680lfd.556.1633021387994; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 10:03:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.113] ([178.252.127.239]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id p8sm428897lft.242.2021.09.30.10.03.07 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 30 Sep 2021 10:03:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#50895: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes To: Eli Zaretskii References: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> <1cf60c2c-7ecc-631b-22c3-6d779476aeeb@gmail.com> <875yuj8dm8.fsf@gnus.org> <7867800d-f770-0316-6659-7ff6f310cd57@yandex.ru> <83h7e2h1wa.fsf@gnu.org> From: Dmitry Gutov Message-ID: <48e93d77-80bb-462e-2cc9-0468dea503c8@yandex.ru> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 20:03:06 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.13.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <83h7e2h1wa.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: On 30.09.2021 12:02, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > It > makes little sense to me to argue for a long time about a feature, > have a user poll about its turning on, then turn on some different > feature by de [...] Content analysis details: (1.9 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.5 RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB RBL: SORBS: sender is an abusable web server [178.252.127.239 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (dgutov[at]yandex.ru) 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record 0.2 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [209.85.167.49 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [209.85.167.49 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.2 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different -0.1 NICE_REPLY_A Looks like a legit reply (A) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org, jporterbugs@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) On 30.09.2021 12:02, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > It > makes little sense to me to argue for a long time about a feature, > have a user poll about its turning on, then turn on some different > feature by default. I agree. And that's not what I suggested. I just described how "a new way of enabling this more selectively" could be implemented. > So I don't think we should change anything in this by default. If > someone really wants a way of enabling this more selectively, that's > fine, but then this new behavior should not be the default, because > that's not what we decided and not what we asked the users to provide > the feedback about. Yes. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 01 03:30:52 2021 Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2021 07:30:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54583 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWD0O-0004qZ-JK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 03:30:52 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:51022) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWD0M-0004qK-P7 for 50895@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 03:30:51 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=FbqR7TSjg+4tEJN7GvWfohGFdJowvjDQEx4noXm90Vw=; b=V3rBRJbWkqkGeHmmQycaaqhSKW cdRVySoGf6qH3GQFA6GKugylfiayKVLbBmJokdDObrn2/Fu3B9Xr9znjPHBLQjbfchpFqCZMxZhH2 JQvOlj3qAGSHZbMDq4yNRwQxaFVSoTnSZemuvtAThVu4GJ5R2utWgOrNXCNCw9QSUBJA=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mWD0E-0006VO-50; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 09:30:44 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Dmitry Gutov Subject: Re: bug#50895: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes References: <87fstn8fak.fsf@gnus.org> <1cf60c2c-7ecc-631b-22c3-6d779476aeeb@gmail.com> <875yuj8dm8.fsf@gnus.org> <7867800d-f770-0316-6659-7ff6f310cd57@yandex.ru> <87pmsq5zoj.fsf@gnus.org> <877dey2ndr.fsf@gnus.org> <7535661b-a9e8-d5f6-c156-bf39a394255b@yandex.ru> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAAlQTFRF 0K6PNzEs////OZlX6wAAAAFiS0dEAmYLfGQAAAAJcEhZcwAACxIAAAsSAdLdfvwAAAAHdElNRQfl CgEGJjcHvwXMAAAASElEQVQoz2NgGCYgNBTBZgwNdYBzWENDA+Ac0dBQFyQtoa5YOYwgjgMuTihx nBAHJKNDkTmO2J3DGhoigvCCgyjCCyieG9oAACIWFVbu726BAAAAWmVYSWZNTQAqAAAACAAFARIA AwAAAAEAAQAAARoABQAAAAEAAABKARsABQAAAAEAAABSASgAAwAAAAEAAgAAAhMAAwAAAAEAAQAA AAAAAAAAAEgAAAABAAAASAAAAAEfUvc0AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIxLTEwLTAxVDA2 OjM4OjU1KzAwOjAw4LNwDgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMS0xMC0wMVQwNjozODo1NSsw MDowMJHuyLIAAAAXdEVYdGV4aWY6WUNiQ3JQb3NpdGlvbmluZwAxrA+AYwAAADh0RVh0aWNjOmNv cHlyaWdodABDb3B5cmlnaHQgKGMpIDE5OTggSGV3bGV0dC1QYWNrYXJkIENvbXBhbnn5V3k3AAAA IXRFWHRpY2M6ZGVzY3JpcHRpb24Ac1JHQiBJRUM2MTk2Ni0yLjFXrdpHAAAAJnRFWHRpY2M6bWFu dWZhY3R1cmVyAElFQyBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmllYy5jaBx/AEwAAAA3dEVYdGljYzptb2RlbABJRUMg NjE5NjYtMi4xIERlZmF1bHQgUkdCIGNvbG91ciBzcGFjZSAtIHNSR0JEU0ipAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: The Notwist's _Vertigo Dubs Vol. 1: Odd Nosdam_: "Ship (Odd Nosdam Remix)" Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 09:30:39 +0200 In-Reply-To: <7535661b-a9e8-d5f6-c156-bf39a394255b@yandex.ru> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Thu, 30 Sep 2021 20:00:41 +0300") Message-ID: <875yuhw6ao.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Dmitry Gutov writes: > Anyway, this is not a strong objection, and I might be convinced by a > particular implementation. We could even adopt this practice in more > places, if it really makes sense to people. > > At the [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org, Jim Porter X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Dmitry Gutov writes: > Anyway, this is not a strong objection, and I might be convinced by a > particular implementation. We could even adopt this practice in more > places, if it really makes sense to people. > > At the moment, though, I'm more in favor of adding a *-global-modes > variable, and then, having collected feedback, changing its default in > some future version. Yeah, I think we could do with some experimentation here (on the trunk, not in Emacs 28), because it's not clear what range of options we have here (not breaking anybody's setup + introduce a more expressive selection mechanism). *-global-modes is the mechanism that sounds most promising now. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 05 19:26:55 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Oct 2021 23:26:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42084 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mXtpn-0001u8-LX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2021 19:26:55 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f175.google.com ([209.85.210.175]:41767) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mXtpj-0001tp-7g for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2021 19:26:54 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f175.google.com with SMTP id p1so787415pfh.8 for ; Tue, 05 Oct 2021 16:26:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=qqdbsCrBB8lQn5bPQPYAJnvHoUgYZ9P0uNdA/rM8YFM=; b=7sIs/ggsSPEhhUDXkYWIIBHOS2qGBGX6szvLBwjAyDq2YPFXbatHwvUUKCuFKn3CYt JClbYxU9UzI9oc5+sIdoFrbRX4lCGeKUged8LcXUOFZJ90XIqoAWhiX7OlGfXSuAXspt 4N8hcZp+oZxIAHqgHiaDeWXp8oaJlWhccCfdhtUk3vNRsJqoqMZ9GBvb9W+swcZFyWJ5 9CnwAOnB1BPTOMt3H8IIT1ntYF5yq4WVZ9DDkb56ToKxKckFtUt+ifK7wP7wDljWRcrv M++BeEWPT7um72kj/M/ofHPCUiaGhWS+CCwGYUZTYQJBUwjOdNZW1HL5a0tmC7QJrm6G Dw/A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5328r5A1xr+2BfPKdlPXHosaFP6ocVP8W0xZimGdSXFhaj+FBXmu PXEDg7ev6x2XoMCRWwQITffvx61I6g1T6yZHCMJJY7cu X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwU8ZZVJeiu2SdfTcF5OoQFs7hD/byFFC+oMgA2eLfh4F0n0GRP1RHAJxgKljhj6AsweCmUbBCQGQVH+Ny9ZQc= X-Received: by 2002:a63:6941:: with SMTP id e62mr17813465pgc.114.1633476405233; Tue, 05 Oct 2021 16:26:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 5 Oct 2021 19:26:44 -0400 From: Stefan Kangas MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2021 19:26:44 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: control message for bug #50894 To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) severity 50894 wishlist quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 02 08:23:40 2022 Received: (at 50895) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Sep 2022 12:23:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45160 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oU5i0-0006mp-Aw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 08:23:40 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:35106) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oU5hy-0006mW-Kv; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 08:23:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=6IRB+qSdP5LkrasAlQ/EDhgU8JvWU+oiji2ZWmDEuX4=; b=o4S7W3ScuCFJxaiez/kJW8lww+ J3JKnx8Rwva47/WpGK0m1768HmiwvG7tlNG2FJTVPTU1haEwEccfe803WkIc1OCPzEun9v/Av4mCl UhAg2Vgx8xjCZy8X/HcsyGka3Yxaa68EJRxaloBYPJrVu0l1+9376AWGqWnH0LXujY8E=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oU5hp-0005N7-LZ; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 14:23:31 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#50895: 28.0.50; show-paren-mode is distracting in some modes In-Reply-To: <87wnmzfgfy.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Wed, 29 Sep 2021 20:10:57 +0300") References: <87wnmzfgfy.fsf_-_@mail.linkov.net> X-Now-Playing: Billie Eilish's _When we all fall asleep where do we go?_: "I Love You" Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2022 14:23:29 +0200 Message-ID: <87o7vyufr2.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Juri Linkov writes: >>> Sounds good to me, but are there any special-modes where it is useful? >>> >>> Perhaps we can just disable it in `special-mode', and if we think of >>> some modes where it seems really useful, we [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50895 Cc: 50895@debbugs.gnu.org, 50894@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Juri Linkov writes: >>> Sounds good to me, but are there any special-modes where it is useful? >>> >>> Perhaps we can just disable it in `special-mode', and if we think of >>> some modes where it seems really useful, we re-enable it for them? >> >> I can't think of any special modes where it's useful, so I think that >> sounds like a plan. > > So here is a new request created from bug#50881. So I've now done this in Emacs 29. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 02 08:23:44 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Sep 2022 12:23:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45165 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oU5i4-0006nC-05 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 08:23:44 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:35120) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oU5i3-0006me-AV for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 08:23:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=2Tj9XgWvod1rq0JOcWS2ajGwN9z76uw4yb+u0Zl1NI0=; b=T9otcM4nF+QSytGaxksfcQGV2J CqXExkY2FnsZRyg7hpHYFn/6ipoIrk3A0jK7NHWzsbeRKNWwc0gPcHbhgCqMtzITOtCV2wZjPJrso UTwqkS7H9hTiDV9GSWHU/o2fr8WTiu9/sa9G1+Y2TE8ZIdHdqqSdbL5AkoZxZp7zgrLc=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oU5hv-0005NH-Ex for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 14:23:37 +0200 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2022 14:23:35 +0200 Message-Id: <87mtbiufqw.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #50895 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: close 50895 29.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) close 50895 29.1 quit From unknown Fri Aug 15 15:36:57 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2022 11:24:10 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator