From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:10:02 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#50880 <50880@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#50880 <50880@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) Reply-To: bug#50880 <50880@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2025 14:10:02 +0000 retitle 50880 Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) reassign 50880 emacs submitter 50880 Stefan Kangas severity 50880 wishlist tag 50880 wontfix patch thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 28 18:55:39 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Sep 2021 22:55:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47266 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVM0h-0002t7-MW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 18:55:39 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:41476) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVM0g-0002sz-4i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 18:55:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54526) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVM0f-0008QS-9V for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 18:55:37 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f43.google.com ([209.85.216.43]:36796) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVM0d-0000NV-PM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 18:55:36 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f43.google.com with SMTP id u1-20020a17090ae00100b0019ec31d3ba2so2800119pjy.1 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 15:55:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=RD0HCeFSyUG65QSUi3pXOCm8gGfCr4lm43vPowVAUpA=; b=ye9CZ4hIaudhhFLuW9w6AVWWI1bO/NzoHwqVHsOpIoFtb84KDQXu9I9nv8YcekdzW6 q2TU+BP3cfAAOvWSuyeYAskXnS05rY9hVSauOyS4h8E1Dd7U2yfFSAg/3ItBDz2aVAy0 Ahw58aOCd//wQOnzOzzNk6H7yVqqDclwFUCLi8zkT0AfRqZqkG4jRvzkn9MXlSaJD6t4 ZgkAqo/LWWtF2aLPCUH4uL2E8X6dkNiGocQ/OL4xOhkTHNY9wUEhjzHzidH1Cuevo27I cI/mbqAkYDZ9IBsz5XhNx9kI9GO8dETwWRCuDQI3eJEq1OoA7XURBoQZxt2p5stLAO+h F7bA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531zuAuU33wM/ahwUcyqug0s947uG4aeXMZpE63orljouQd1FB/q ixPvYjNRi5rLs51Su/ZTY3qWHcOa8o84wJXk6befPdFK X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyniH6Sm8mMIhRWXS7hJZEOr2AKJVk/ocQcS3uZ4g8Ha9TyR/wt0uNyBk98WtUjDT8k/IcR7IaB5dZBNgsH5Qs= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:d505:b0:13e:b49:9d8d with SMTP id b5-20020a170902d50500b0013e0b499d8dmr7415925plg.22.1632869734210; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 15:55:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 15:55:33 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 15:55:33 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.216.43; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-f43.google.com X-Spam_score_int: 5 X-Spam_score: 0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_20=-0.001, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) Severity: wishlist When I press `C-h C-h', there is an entry "Emacs TODO" (`C-h C-t'), but there is no entry "Contributing to Emacs". On the splash screen, there is an entry "Contributing" that takes you to `(emacs) Contributing'. Please consider adding a new help keybinding that takes you to that section in the Info manual. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 03:07:02 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 07:07:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47628 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVTgE-0006n1-M3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 03:07:02 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:53150) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVTgD-0006mW-94 for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 03:07:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=sDSHmWHpD9KuFIPUAniGKM/M/hZcfErIBqQT3ObfLtU=; b=ZFyf/h6S5o5rvREYHncK65SPf3 w5wbskPTHA/6rrTbu3BNL0Fx5CjIfgVSWwflKhUem2ka6J6UYKraV94NaxYBD/U0+LaopyjJGgTEE NnDs1SFABqgKU5UH84PsdWE2uW1KxnrCddRCKkU9Yk6hplPTQ2cs9SZauVwI0G8b4Biw=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mVTg3-0005dn-IE; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:06:54 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) References: X-Now-Playing: Laurie Freelove's _Smells Like Truth_: "Arms of a Dream" Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:06:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Tue, 28 Sep 2021 15:55:33 -0700") Message-ID: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > When I press `C-h C-h', there is an entry "Emacs TODO" (`C-h C-t'), but > there is no entry "Contributing to Emacs". > > On the splash screen, there is an entry "Contributing" that takes you to > `( [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: 50880@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Kangas writes: > When I press `C-h C-h', there is an entry "Emacs TODO" (`C-h C-t'), but > there is no entry "Contributing to Emacs". > > On the splash screen, there is an entry "Contributing" that takes you to > `(emacs) Contributing'. > > Please consider adding a new help keybinding that takes you to that > section in the Info manual. Makes sense to me. What key would that be, though? `C-h c' and `C' and `C-c' are all taken... `C-h M-c' is free, though. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 05:11:30 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 09:11:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47779 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVVcg-0003e6-2o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 05:11:30 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f181.google.com ([209.85.214.181]:37698) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVVce-0003dr-Jl for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 05:11:28 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f181.google.com with SMTP id j14so1067189plx.4 for <50880@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 02:11:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=JYFDpxAyC2zo4dYB4wk61Jr/P8cjsGQuNDg9X9jG12k=; b=DFApvUdAchIKf460WxZhzzBA3CF28hmF+IQRzsqaUZZk73VyLo8jYrQ4/uknncHI+4 /mDJddUWiYImRzLbKpABGosg46HYlF2TYOnC+rL4juMtThTkV07Q2lmDqiMljmBZRnGp 8d5b9pNXUC+7LEpgEkRKzoj8yQKyVjzgrtRqp7c9vJ6VN9q1cPFZSnm286ltPyCc9S/4 fuVg17sNC1LWb8k2r8WV3tY6fFALPN/YTGxESEtI6R6UFeAt3u6IVdJKbYWskEPYn2aU zrZ6UoiF76VfohZwNxfI6ymtnsw5kOOE6w4uKNBv26gOwOU4N5F6z6v3QtS6h0iB5d86 DKyA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530gcmD+s+8ne6VcWSygDYlNDC/muO9rHS5f+3C+7pJwJDg8A6Qo ABzFjvUxZPQH3mPqiLOT+qN6VmsxvIH+bVzypBZGsotU X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzp67xyqiO2qbk6R5pY5pIMsGThoCjpl9XyJwt2OtV4a270tsLcJ+N6av0IfedCEbvRkZc4uTZRbbLusvpi+pc= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:460a:: with SMTP id w10mr5269546pjg.132.1632906683070; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 02:11:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 02:11:22 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 02:11:22 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: 50880@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Makes sense to me. What key would that be, though? `C-h c' and `C' and > `C-c' are all taken... `C-h M-c' is free, though. Or just move `describe-copying' to `C-h C-g' (for GNU GPL), thus freeing up `C-h C-c' for "Contributing". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 05:18:52 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 09:18:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47786 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVVjn-0003q0-Qr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 05:18:51 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:52804) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVVjk-0003pr-TQ for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 05:18:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1632907127; bh=UtBHsgtxNFy1+E2DipjxOS0ijFbWZAxgjkvMAUbwpUY=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=bRRoG+Y976dbshPVXCmi5uIwW8D5IfnEgl6U5sHWhujuObipQtDXcVFCLkLem/flr 60+klctDNiY4s9su4z+de1sI6/yhRBDxT/hzZ2P48cxtcrq0c8H+WT6T75zVoV3MNy RHiGptGpeMsMWYhBuCI77eOpTBRKhLvaeBoRnPjrzqRMkeqPKTKY68FGBS9DzVVIq4 7or9CH+K+br0gJKTHH5mfRpfRWMLnI6b+8wITzd0vwhfpR98Thhq29T4irqqHSK3Ua ORKSnuxULpRgGDRFkTi+HKotcb+gSAC4VRWW5OVQ0RnexOTQH7ciNPrGgqTfvWZuEw COcvDG1Wx/LOA== Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:18:46 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <096dc7f28da9bfcd21a5@heytings.org> References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 50880@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> Makes sense to me. What key would that be, though? `C-h c' and `C' >> and `C-c' are all taken... `C-h M-c' is free, though. > > Or just move `describe-copying' to `C-h C-g' (for GNU GPL), thus freeing > up `C-h C-c' for "Contributing". > But (elisp) Key Binding Conventions says: "Similarly, don't bind a key sequence ending in `C-g', since that is commonly used to cancel a key sequence." I suggest: C-h g -> About the GNU project C-h G -> Emacs copying permission (GNU General Public License) C-h C-c -> Contributing From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 05:42:03 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 09:42:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47795 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVW6E-0004Qr-VB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 05:42:03 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f49.google.com ([209.85.216.49]:46660) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVW6C-0004QK-QY for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 05:42:01 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f49.google.com with SMTP id lb1-20020a17090b4a4100b001993f863df2so1429014pjb.5 for <50880@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 02:42:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=JBURnQeLedDJEXmUd6yJSYUdxEei7tRhw6tLBVJHA/k=; b=EQp46FAIZOq6626BdxXqcZJZmjUM8gt+sYsmJYy5FlKfioJ0qxwV3ssMbBC9yUfQHh fcLiwA4t2Cc2CA2da4VEYkl1BF22n1NOkdo4QRYEQVOfpQrPLaRkDBR9c8RgB4hU9Eqh cJZ0Wnl0aqtSH9ZcdlGvoo8qhpYrgmYt4+34fatwPq15kSgxi+M41Jfrgfhu4sjF1SGD BZuz/mtHrxi2hrV6zmu1IWe7JJdM63n3ZFxmsy+yP3jv1Fnyj4xbuKQVLXtD9lQSAVbl 9jGHn3T9czdgCp0NgrGKKH21Uw0k4+l5/k/v0X8O5IisG9a8sfa0zn+rwNWaDbk8hD5j 9AgQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5336pIheexbvf2sUB9aEv4f5srZcB2HOU6aUWl/QXItYXlDJo6n+ KmISm/ivGh2VCTIglTc3K0EO9aKjkVF2tKxIze8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzMABL1TmSP6L4awSM9qkAUeAjzef9m1bCsFSsNie/Ydej0fA3wUkBrosMs8hWKNRVzhLt89igjFy1b6jVvhCM= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:5583:: with SMTP id c3mr5158426pji.133.1632908514896; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 02:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 02:41:54 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <096dc7f28da9bfcd21a5@heytings.org> References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <096dc7f28da9bfcd21a5@heytings.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 02:41:54 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) To: Gregory Heytings Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 50880@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Gregory Heytings writes: > I suggest: > > C-h g -> About the GNU project > C-h G -> Emacs copying permission (GNU General Public License) > C-h C-c -> Contributing Sounds good to me. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 12:00:30 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 16:00:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49945 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVc0U-00037h-Eh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 12:00:30 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:59038) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVc0M-0002uG-FA for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 12:00:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Sxw9YFXCLrgiwgPgPJ1qhMKJNnZNE7oUSPFlTcCBCGs=; b=RAaN/m0io06KFAkiiTPtqfWPY3 ok5TzG8W903VpWWrpQzwYpgA2r+iT8C4VXKvENLcrI5Tp9ZsQ+uld6Fod0inFWH/u3J3al/MMMGiS lUdLxWRe2VZn2fgfn8+XQjtfia2OvbhVqE4EH0R/VwQXNwM8ZAEDjqHkm/ewxOIx66P4=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mVc0D-0002R6-N7; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 18:00:16 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> X-Now-Playing: The Notwist's _Shrink_: "Day 7" Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 18:00:07 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 29 Sep 2021 02:11:22 -0700") Message-ID: <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > Or just move `describe-copying' to `C-h C-g' (for GNU GPL), thus freeing > up `C-h C-c' for "Contributing". `C-g' is more mnemonic, but I'm not enthusiastic about moving around key bindings that have been around this long. (Even if it's not a command many people are actually using.) Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: 50880@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Kangas writes: > Or just move `describe-copying' to `C-h C-g' (for GNU GPL), thus freeing > up `C-h C-c' for "Contributing". `C-g' is more mnemonic, but I'm not enthusiastic about moving around key bindings that have been around this long. (Even if it's not a command many people are actually using.) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 12:52:43 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 16:52:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50019 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVcp1-0008UK-L2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 12:52:43 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f46.google.com ([209.85.216.46]:44644) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVcoz-0008U6-Rb for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 12:52:42 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f46.google.com with SMTP id lp15-20020a17090b4a8f00b0019f4059bd90so995768pjb.3 for <50880@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:52:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hAfqX9673I+crBuQX6sTEXyTcIA8gtSSyFUIo7v5jLE=; b=c3zaewlxBnRV+YH1IjEmf/jBsPPbnmojSQjPIGo0FBldMIo5CFfmPfPC+hI+lT9YBs v1KZ6E4NkQgX3zSt9APwNAdvNMKxSi8tPsyrDH820L+096HVjbG5vSJ7f2wrR0JSN0B0 J29oyI75PbNdkQzdogS2RTcfTMEvMZB5kAktwBbiJ6fj32GCf5/49SJM5FhxHguXa03l DHEJ68GdaV9MfyfMLlqzCSstFVtVIY9dLn8NI1Dh0gIyeTHR8yc2LnsavoEV9ZR6dFHg eZpn4NUU6rGW6NsLLc/dyGOTIX8xC89CdvTaGYC0yNRWKtfz9J6oQ03mx6zGh3UkhlK2 n4JQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533YpGsmCsK0e43WKfaeWiz/LfKcd2lcUMQ9DvvW7oaPZwzYYkaC F5h70pwy5sUqddAiHO9PSaNLYGAaeZ5VuL855cI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyLoIkdvlEqsN4JzIJxcgMhl4KmRiEWV3pgO0qQYfq4Stv9shk3QDNmRIP6Eao6YtUgcjrXoDDsWVdXRKooiSE= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:5583:: with SMTP id c3mr948553pji.133.1632934355984; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:52:35 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:52:35 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: 50880@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > `C-g' is more mnemonic, but I'm not enthusiastic about moving around key > bindings that have been around this long. (Even if it's not a command > many people are actually using.) I guess you will in any case only ever press this after looking at `C-h C-h' first, so I don't think this matters really. We could pick any key, like "b" for "contriButing". Or, you know, "h" for "Happens to be free". ;-) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 13:12:47 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 17:12:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50080 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVd8R-0002lv-5U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:12:47 -0400 Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.200]:50885) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVd8H-0002lJ-Gs for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:12:46 -0400 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay7-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ADFCC20003; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 17:12:29 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <096dc7f28da9bfcd21a5@heytings.org> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 19:55:34 +0300 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 29 Sep 2021 02:41:54 -0700") Message-ID: <878rzfgw3d.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: 50880@debbugs.gnu.org, Gregory Heytings , Lars Ingebrigtsen X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> I suggest: >> >> C-h g -> About the GNU project >> C-h G -> Emacs copying permission (GNU General Public License) >> C-h C-c -> Contributing > > Sounds good to me. Here is another problem: TAB Show all installed manuals should be C-i Show all installed manuals because the mnemonic key is 'C-i'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 13:41:20 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 17:41:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50121 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVda4-0007u1-Gy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:41:20 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f176.google.com ([209.85.210.176]:38520) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVda1-0007tm-Sp for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:41:19 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f176.google.com with SMTP id k26so2597886pfi.5 for <50880@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 10:41:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/1mzGuWymJuWLXk63hsPiRw4Apy38rte2iVZJ0Dp2e0=; b=6QhgGWDd3IFtKg02Rr0N7bJCV2h6knOrIJBRbJABpNDQ7GoBVMmzYn4r7eVQs8JIm0 ARloQqGGEWkEFMCi4f2KAEgrfLIZ3ENTptRjn+WbvvNfRzdjx9oatPkzxLD4A0Sb9gWA oBRC8kmCs7SAau8bf/1kO828IEOEMXRBlcpdyeup1QlBGOuF9evpJk4lOxErgkkO9NrR KK+3TC6y8Mz47HusHnChd76qmccnA84ZwM4MEY63yDC+bDaYsSn7NV3ESF29+L1MVI8B JnIyxQUBBy+fvkMzavtyeyovi9tKJytoeAoHrWTgxOyEBQlLsfB6ekNJUw1UEr53EFuV N0ww== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533/JFA1uYT65frpzwVQK6qyrVSPhlkjAo2r74gn9o09M6s4r6iW i5XIq0htIh01c5gujE93zes8HWt4eL2JlRZlQ2Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyL8RRCFq3JytegjrGX9VdpmQ/ehEuB6dwE5WbjAz/qIbRkJLPoIwWKpOLb8FyN2GZUTOaWU84nPARf9Q+JT/o= X-Received: by 2002:a63:4717:: with SMTP id u23mr976194pga.359.1632937272077; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 10:41:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 10:41:11 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <878rzfgw3d.fsf@mail.linkov.net> References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <096dc7f28da9bfcd21a5@heytings.org> <878rzfgw3d.fsf@mail.linkov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 10:41:11 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) To: Juri Linkov Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: 50880@debbugs.gnu.org, Gregory Heytings , Lars Ingebrigtsen X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Juri Linkov writes: > Here is another problem: > > TAB Show all installed manuals > > should be > > C-i Show all installed manuals > > because the mnemonic key is 'C-i'. Yup. This is a limitation in `substitute-command-keys' that I think we should fix. Feel free to open a bug report about it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 13:45:16 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 17:45:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50133 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdds-000815-OM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:45:16 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:60268) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVddr-00080m-4y for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:45:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=/A4Vp81Rha8Yn3qSrwJlmSs847UAngJbr5m+yLvtdfI=; b=cKtUxECgBjXaVzc/zoKkjDU/rV 6OmQJxiFdt2wVrpX+WUYhI6ZVJd5Hmh9R+qoLCY+8al52qfYTNfQFx8LZ+C6vzEAhCg1pQB2U0OcW hpDMZEeFGcnaYLZ4Y4/urnJ0zlIWi/CIT3wsIvqjtDeqoK7A7oBPydahIkWSVGnPPU1U=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mVddg-0003Ub-U2; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 19:45:07 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <096dc7f28da9bfcd21a5@heytings.org> <878rzfgw3d.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAFVBMVEV1ESFzDR0uBgwN AwRRChVrJC3////R5sOfAAAAAWJLR0QGYWa4fQAAAAd0SU1FB+UJHREsBuiIyn4AAAFlSURBVDjL bVRRdsQgCIS+9h/2eYBukgs05gBN4hV6/6tUEJHNxg99cWDQGQkgMxAAcp36QJlYRtgEsA+uwQKx jRppOPLbqGR0C8gewAVQTj3KPRXcAq38G1DJLANvwu8yoN2XwHfwJYl6ikUQB2Va/DznvVdA14r5 XKcsSE9jbEDKS5nz1jWpgOl6THWac2NVflNxetZSH/nb3TEgrb+y5B8cgCY8lITmbQDttAac2zC+ 3fCxNmBtsUMuAbBlCBlRtz3Nu9Z4or8Y0+iUg37qcUUXct2Pqa6n5knZ8bAe01KOvKG/P38OVdy8 qojYqzSxUgWWYC26hans0XL2jG6weehGpb2Uwl47ACUpQE51AYZSHbE19hCIy/aOXnsLxUe1EuCS YVQY47Xv9DTYGzMIIuYIjzwzoldECvxBvMnQgij8CUYnmc3xgjQkwli9EhC2+C//ZYA0ErWrBW1v +p+M7gIgW5V/rjY7PtSLYvwAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjEtMDktMjlUMTc6NDQ6MDYr MDA6MDD2LgAaAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIxLTA5LTI5VDE3OjQ0OjA2KzAwOjAwh3O4 pgAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: The Notwist's _Neon Golden_: "Trashing Days" Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 19:45:04 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 29 Sep 2021 10:41:11 -0700") Message-ID: <87a6jv8ee7.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > This is a limitation in `substitute-command-keys' that I think we > should fix. Feel free to open a bug report about it. It's somewhat related to bug#37485, I guess. (I.e., having a way to specify what the "intended" key binding is be when printing.) Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: Gregory Heytings , 50880@debbugs.gnu.org, Juri Linkov X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Kangas writes: > This is a limitation in `substitute-command-keys' that I think we > should fix. Feel free to open a bug report about it. It's somewhat related to bug#37485, I guess. (I.e., having a way to specify what the "intended" key binding is be when printing.) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 13:55:52 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 17:55:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50146 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdo8-0008J6-KN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:55:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48904) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdo5-0008Iq-Ek for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:55:51 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:38874) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdnz-00011r-Di; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:55:43 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3361 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVdna-00013f-8g; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 13:55:42 -0400 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 20:55:19 +0300 Message-Id: <83v92jgtbs.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <878rzfgw3d.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Wed, 29 Sep 2021 19:55:34 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <096dc7f28da9bfcd21a5@heytings.org> <878rzfgw3d.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, gregory@heytings.org, stefan@marxist.se, 50880@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 19:55:34 +0300 > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 50880@debbugs.gnu.org, > Gregory Heytings > > Here is another problem: > > TAB Show all installed manuals > > should be > > C-i Show all installed manuals > > because the mnemonic key is 'C-i'. If C-i was selected because the 'i' part, then it's too bad, because the correct name is TAB, for the same reason we use RET abd BS and DEL and ESC instead of their Ctrl equivalents. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 14:36:55 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 18:36:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50216 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVeRr-0000zl-8Q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:36:55 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:53428) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVeRn-0000za-Kq for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:36:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1632940610; bh=q5KB2CyGgnLVT0VJRaUonv1pgd0cGmIVKhtMP1tG1Uw=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=vgSJ2+O1lBHYzBXHmdaRa6BdNMzAmhTLWkHOw6e6S/r2ytMQ8fP8SKuV+KYz9ICge 65nFSlsxjA0rvc1nPGwkORwKdngnCVLXM+AJZiwqWfAxclX0OPO4bxkCfb7lpjnisR NRIG8HqHXQVGSSsDE7uU/UsJbKn3TqatImkyTz/uO7WgRpyaF09NJul6MeO3j2IQEX 8+Txkwzu0xmvQ+iUEsPbBGx2Ti7ib0aoCRqScWyS4PCZUH6VQKBfdyuS/EY8Q+aGHh 3gXE8hm1ocRTjbtSsFpbqhtF/X+xuSTLgHZCfm/oUT3GiJ8aDVKGmdFhBN3pMP0wtE IvYI5U1kNVEsQ== Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 18:36:49 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Juri Linkov Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) In-Reply-To: <878rzfgw3d.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Message-ID: <096dc7f28df809f62336@heytings.org> References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <096dc7f28da9bfcd21a5@heytings.org> <878rzfgw3d.fsf@mail.linkov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Stefan Kangas , 50880@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>> I suggest: >>> >>> C-h g -> About the GNU project >>> C-h G -> Emacs copying permission (GNU General Public License) >>> C-h C-c -> Contributing >> >> Sounds good to me. > > Here is another problem: > > TAB Show all installed manuals > > should be > > C-i Show all installed manuals > > because the mnemonic key is 'C-i'. > But "Show all installed manuals" is on C-h i, isn't it? Has this changed very recently? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 21:10:49 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2021 01:10:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51034 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVkb2-0005HQ-P1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 21:10:49 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f47.google.com ([209.85.216.47]:43868) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVkaz-0005H1-0i for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 21:10:46 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f47.google.com with SMTP id k23-20020a17090a591700b001976d2db364so3470711pji.2 for <50880@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 18:10:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=pABRcDiGA849xgqzZsiI1E+GZ4tn+P/lSlixo+qnKPc=; b=GQjPe4wa9CMoOjHhd9dffxCn4badP+1jMO3EQ/pQGDU9M/ZoTtkAlbBiEw5LOmcnim 4hNF3Zrie8k0z6azGawl5xlsZnDlJimfC+ks8iVVLvrBW+COq/DDgkAYELwdt+K70zH6 +yANcfolE1meDWU9YQh6mSxh56y4LpnXi4M5tsqNO7TECNtL5nhB5t1Xr7FlXFASDogj AVrQTSlefyYXbYB0EttxslPrCcpPTx8afng1pH8ephZ2j1WpnADMoD+dpiqhFEc9b+gp BZeFFPvW4XBFp5bneeGEQkj2rDTAsRM0vUUJPZ7kJJ5DFPWN+/GiLgg07aU1Fb9DYM9q aUdA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531POuWNWTdv0FN+sIPpSWPVl9OacfY94N/Ec+sCBwVH04IX2QtT XNS7YopT/VlfAjQM6hCGR/PD1xta90lInIU2nhU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyw2/mwcClD+DWJzrVK25Lsg//N9TdEZ32fGG75iSzTQzzrbB3V6nOTTyefvFAIIg3S7Nvr7HTUgu+ioVtOLS8= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:460a:: with SMTP id w10mr9775469pjg.132.1632964239248; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 18:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 18:10:38 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 18:10:38 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="00000000000069655b05cd2c1d7d" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: 50880@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) --00000000000069655b05cd2c1d7d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" tags 50880 + patch thanks Stefan Kangas writes: > We could pick any key, like "b" for "contriButing". Or, you know, "h" > for "Happens to be free". ;-) So how about the attached? I put it on `C-h C-x' because I figured that we might want to use "b" for "bugs" in the future perhaps, and "u" just wasn't that nice. 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Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mVpHS-0002M8-5X; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 08:10:56 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEV5d4fw1z/26lHD S16/xM/////6N7eIAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+UJHgYKEaNZ1oYAAAGkSURBVDjLddIB tqMgDAXQ9MgCPugCBuoCtGEBVLL/Nc1LAKv9MxxPa7k+ErD08N6HlHDdRqTX91Qf9PJdwi9Iq829 vyGkWWvE/RaKtIewhLiG+Z1Wm1pHcZ+WkEQTz11n509xLCUpurRoKM5hgP85ALgUYpQPrIC4HuH5 SvK+LAVY5FgPv+ABCw9Yjj/0QOwL0O7xwzuWMggNZuzDL8K8yzviASIksNUn21Iy8SYRMDMhxggw PXCIUogkBU3yIujLMxP74A3Yb0LbJhKlzgr7wg5QGcsRZXEVtwoYHdghCMBdZZo6lA7FVZsjV/MJ G9EGsAwhxSI3yA1yA22VdLiiIFZc0K9IVcCipKCFMkAAUhWmjZyB0/6lkfYwoZ+p78OgFLEVtcqk +ziBWsygtkRuJWzoltw4EgWnoVaL6AI4ifZBX+Da4+RIW5uu0EuQ6qXds7gFG+CQcjnBhh2iKt7E CLgTbJ5pzBuUAXlIkStke/t9sfY12tXU5i7VO1S7tt/Qx/Y/4M9m+vu4SLklcutLf5V/LtX+MPed n8P1wAmV65BiO/sLYDXHZZV7BUYAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjEtMDktMzBUMDY6MTA6 MTcrMDA6MDD+C/pmAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIxLTA5LTMwVDA2OjEwOjE3KzAwOjAw j1ZC2gAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: The Notwist's _Come In_: "Come In" Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 08:10:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 29 Sep 2021 18:10:38 -0700") Message-ID: <8735pm7fv6.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > So how about the attached? I put it on `C-h C-x' because I figured that > we might want to use "b" for "bugs" in the future perhaps, and "u" just > wasn't that nice. Most of the other ones are taken [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: 50880@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Kangas writes: > So how about the attached? I put it on `C-h C-x' because I figured that > we might want to use "b" for "bugs" in the future perhaps, and "u" just > wasn't that nice. Most of the other ones are taken except for "i", "q", > "r", "y" and "z". Looks good to me, but I think this should go into master after the emacs-28 branch has been cut. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 30 03:49:27 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2021 07:49:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51360 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVqoo-0005IO-Tw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 03:49:27 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:54170) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVqom-0005IF-LJ for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 03:49:25 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1632988163; bh=BH01NGaY3Q40CXnx404gjR/mo6qocNlQL1UhxvroX4c=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=mWqtPaW9OpzWR+nsLLqIchqgzLyAweNZHLQSOrHcXWbGPIKswNEXAFTb0WY0okzWG 6nBThmM75x70QcDgbzJA3LDIvrbsgbUl1K6KnfHscC2qPY60GpYANAU0ahTNEbgysS 1aDR/0gLLbpkyDX9c23ybOjyruCXQcADXGwjZYbbdljzDDv2Tfeu8EOwbGJ5MtJYZ/ be69up90y5TVQYyhgaqObvT8UcaFmBIA+d4WSEAEAeESznAX0Xim8gqzCSuro+eJ3y qK3mI2q/uVaZj3RWtt8LfKzOygcfFAMtzalt68phqaMzKMYPP3VTu5E6Hxwtdj/ycG XA7TvBGk5J/Yg== Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 07:49:22 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <25d8d72022560012a303@heytings.org> References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 50880@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> We could pick any key, like "b" for "contriButing". Or, you know, "h" >> for "Happens to be free". ;-) > > So how about the attached? > What was wrong with C-h g -> About the GNU project C-h G -> Emacs copying permission (GNU General Public License) C-h C-c -> Contributing ? Also, I would put "Contributing to Emacs" in the first subsection of "Miscellaneous", after "Debugging Emacs", where it belongs. Which by the way makes me wonder why Emacs TODO is not there, too. It would perhaps be even better to create a third subsection with C-p Known problems C-d Debugging Emacs ? Contributing to Emacs C-t Emacs TODO > > I put it on `C-h C-x' because I figured that we might want to use "b" > for "bugs" in the future perhaps, and "u" just wasn't that nice. Most > of the other ones are taken except for "i", "q", "r", "y" and "z". > Actually there are quite a few more keys that are still free under C-h: C-h {j,u,y,z} C-h {A,B,D,E,G,H,J,M,N,O,Q,T,U,V,W,X,Y,Z} C-h C-{b,i,j,k,l,q,r,u,v,x,z} [and C-g which should not be bound] From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 30 07:51:10 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2021 11:51:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51646 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVuak-0005HO-9V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 07:51:10 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:54452) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVuai-0005HB-3z for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 07:51:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1633002666; bh=YUhqWy9JEb6KXYx5bwk4qAl0GEq7Pl4rMiYiK5YE4dw=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=ZEp4zWPf2ah/EZhSYGhO3XiwSssYlWDsWRgiAVgOFFxNdBvxduRF0XVlSE+V9D+Ve RLT+xdnbllpWSyn6S1vSEJNCxI57PKGUpqQMqA57nsTYnJ9fg80W7+xL563ct86XhX i5qAD9yJYcQH3SMDDoWg8CACr3/r3wILkLOrBKkunMvOTBBKBD3VoM9VL7ewWGLKiT ewan5b2jzuYsXQyL2NW1VjbUAC4DsMBGhkefaabFuGrMVJKSmb/ttf3MofkMQxBRHl 3iqWjpralEm5GswpQCm8FqCTvv8oI9u9pEEWlv4iUlbZH/Tz2ICGiZ/+se+Th9JKj9 YNUdO3oAGUYRg== Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 11:51:06 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) In-Reply-To: <25d8d72022560012a303@heytings.org> Message-ID: <25d8d72022f2b7ee79dd@heytings.org> References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> <25d8d72022560012a303@heytings.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 50880@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > > What was wrong with > > C-h g -> About the GNU project > C-h G -> Emacs copying permission (GNU General Public License) > C-h C-c -> Contributing > > ? > Another option: C-h g -> About the GNU project C-h C-l (as in "license") -> Emacs copying permission (GNU General Public License) C-h C-c -> Contributing to Emacs From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 30 16:02:07 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Sep 2021 20:02:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54084 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mW2Fr-0004Xz-H9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 16:02:07 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f49.google.com ([209.85.216.49]:53908) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mW2Fp-0004XU-MG for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 16:02:06 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f49.google.com with SMTP id r7so4965535pjo.3 for <50880@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 13:02:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yO5DsWvZ1AhsDKJ2xmOSUum4DKQv9dtRDahXeJatVjs=; b=oy7Lho4YeAMvXk9tsuR37Qio6/wZokYMBg8WioFReXiq+XqlcOOGO9eYmTseSA0QoF +0/RK8YW86OPE1xFHq0LpBWt6VDn1X0w573wFj7wFstWAIsIwwOixuR+TqEm15VTu8MN PoLhOYp6j9l8u+Wt8Y9HoZSlCnT1NFLZZrX77i3wCbCPNxymjqV6ZzeLkQ+usMM64jSf j1UwtL9InPR1dUV9DN1EfambYeEgWleOqS+3M1XCwvAg2i2Xv6zhpi53hoOoXPcjsz0s qb6Oxnen2olJhLxZhFc5GdeBWGFV0Qiv6bVqad5WBuHQMss/CsE7dwvRX3gvkgz7o856 N1TA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533sAUxLX/JLZgJzlZ7DJDZixip87IBTE+TZ+mTSPZ8zJEPiXYw1 T+n9SfkW5f8SrxE1WABrN3OnDUo+xoXD+p6jbp0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw1YvbAFCAER9BYy6ynr01oiBOW4sFtncb8cfwPK8jBFJkYSjinGoMtQBAngNrC611dTqYlnpCGFz9VwmiqT9M= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b691:b029:12d:2b6:d116 with SMTP id c17-20020a170902b691b029012d02b6d116mr5900843pls.71.1633032119818; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 13:01:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> <25d8d72022560012a303@heytings.org> In-Reply-To: <25d8d72022560012a303@heytings.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 22:01:48 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) To: Gregory Heytings Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 50880@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Gregory Heytings writes: > What was wrong with > > C-h g -> About the GNU project > C-h G -> Emacs copying permission (GNU General Public License) > C-h C-c -> Contributing IMO the best proposal so far, but Lars didn't want to move the GPL from 'C-h C-c' so that part unfortunately makes it a non-starter. > Also, I would put "Contributing to Emacs" in the first subsection of > "Miscellaneous", after "Debugging Emacs", where it belongs. Which by the > way makes me wonder why Emacs TODO is not there, too. It would perhaps be > even better to create a third subsection with > > C-p Known problems > C-d Debugging Emacs > ? Contributing to Emacs > C-t Emacs TODO Good idea, I like it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 01 03:24:58 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2021 07:24:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54579 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWCuf-0004gl-Tv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 03:24:58 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:50970) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWCuc-0004gV-Uo for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 03:24:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Fxy/TWE8c5c1bvhXVEYnHTBMOnRucHoSHXfnAFIw+jk=; b=Tue+BZpYrxEwxdo9mpSL5nRYz3 5U7jVimLCIgguOyURn6XqU2zNfqPmO33fAYI6PkARf8Q5Mrp4vTe8mHxZqZJYbc4/aqiUOkta3rNg 1mZcVX0hOCTpoTiPlTCYUHpDwRTTGwx83wkiYTf1ufKR3XTZUkQHE9m9pVi4e32pDrtg=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mWCuT-0006U9-TB; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 09:24:48 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> <25d8d72022560012a303@heytings.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAAlQTFRF 0K6PNzEs////OZlX6wAAAAFiS0dEAmYLfGQAAAAJcEhZcwAACxIAAAsSAdLdfvwAAAAHdElNRQfl CgEGJjcHvwXMAAAASElEQVQoz2NgGCYgNBTBZgwNdYBzWENDA+Ac0dBQFyQtoa5YOYwgjgMuTihx nBAHJKNDkTmO2J3DGhoigvCCgyjCCyieG9oAACIWFVbu726BAAAAWmVYSWZNTQAqAAAACAAFARIA AwAAAAEAAQAAARoABQAAAAEAAABKARsABQAAAAEAAABSASgAAwAAAAEAAgAAAhMAAwAAAAEAAQAA AAAAAAAAAEgAAAABAAAASAAAAAEfUvc0AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIxLTEwLTAxVDA2 OjM4OjU1KzAwOjAw4LNwDgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMS0xMC0wMVQwNjozODo1NSsw MDowMJHuyLIAAAAXdEVYdGV4aWY6WUNiQ3JQb3NpdGlvbmluZwAxrA+AYwAAADh0RVh0aWNjOmNv cHlyaWdodABDb3B5cmlnaHQgKGMpIDE5OTggSGV3bGV0dC1QYWNrYXJkIENvbXBhbnn5V3k3AAAA IXRFWHRpY2M6ZGVzY3JpcHRpb24Ac1JHQiBJRUM2MTk2Ni0yLjFXrdpHAAAAJnRFWHRpY2M6bWFu dWZhY3R1cmVyAElFQyBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmllYy5jaBx/AEwAAAA3dEVYdGljYzptb2RlbABJRUMg NjE5NjYtMi4xIERlZmF1bHQgUkdCIGNvbG91ciBzcGFjZSAtIHNSR0JEU0ipAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: The Notwist's _Vertigo Dubs Vol. 1: Odd Nosdam_: "Ship (Odd Nosdam Remix)" Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 09:24:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Thu, 30 Sep 2021 22:01:48 +0200") Message-ID: <87a6jtw6ki.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: >> What was wrong with >> >> C-h g -> About the GNU project >> C-h G -> Emacs copying permission (GNU General Public License) >> C-h C-c -> Contributing > > IMO the best proposal so far, but Lars didn [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: Gregory Heytings , 50880@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Kangas writes: >> What was wrong with >> >> C-h g -> About the GNU project >> C-h G -> Emacs copying permission (GNU General Public License) >> C-h C-c -> Contributing > > IMO the best proposal so far, but Lars didn't want to move the GPL > from 'C-h C-c' so that part unfortunately makes it a non-starter. I'm not dead set against it -- it's not like these are commands that people use heavily. But that cuts the other way, too -- making this new command mnemonic isn't really that important, either, since I'd assume that people would be accessing them via `C-h C-h' and then paging down, entering whatever key it says they should use. I.e., nobody's remembering these keystrokes anyway. Perhaps Eli has an opinion here? >> Also, I would put "Contributing to Emacs" in the first subsection of >> "Miscellaneous", after "Debugging Emacs", where it belongs. Which by the >> way makes me wonder why Emacs TODO is not there, too. It would perhaps be >> even better to create a third subsection with >> >> C-p Known problems >> C-d Debugging Emacs >> ? Contributing to Emacs >> C-t Emacs TODO > > Good idea, I like it. Me too. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 01 06:18:14 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2021 10:18:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54751 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWFcM-0000eM-Fz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:18:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40708) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWFcK-0000e9-FJ for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:18:13 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:42286) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWFcD-0002Cd-FV; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:18:06 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4762 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWFcB-0005v1-M2; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:18:05 -0400 Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 13:17:45 +0300 Message-Id: <83zgrtdp6e.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87a6jtw6ki.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Fri, 01 Oct 2021 09:24:45 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> <25d8d72022560012a303@heytings.org> <87a6jtw6ki.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: gregory@heytings.org, stefan@marxist.se, 50880@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 09:24:45 +0200 > Cc: Gregory Heytings , 50880@debbugs.gnu.org > > Stefan Kangas writes: > > >> What was wrong with > >> > >> C-h g -> About the GNU project > >> C-h G -> Emacs copying permission (GNU General Public License) > >> C-h C-c -> Contributing > > > > IMO the best proposal so far, but Lars didn't want to move the GPL > > from 'C-h C-c' so that part unfortunately makes it a non-starter. > > I'm not dead set against it -- it's not like these are commands that > people use heavily. But that cuts the other way, too -- making this new > command mnemonic isn't really that important, either, since I'd assume > that people would be accessing them via `C-h C-h' and then paging down, > entering whatever key it says they should use. I.e., nobody's > remembering these keystrokes anyway. > > Perhaps Eli has an opinion here? How about not giving it a key binding at all? Why is a key binding important in this case? It's not like people will want to read that section twice a day. > >> Also, I would put "Contributing to Emacs" in the first subsection of > >> "Miscellaneous", after "Debugging Emacs", where it belongs. Which by the > >> way makes me wonder why Emacs TODO is not there, too. It would perhaps be > >> even better to create a third subsection with > >> > >> C-p Known problems > >> C-d Debugging Emacs > >> ? Contributing to Emacs > >> C-t Emacs TODO > > > > Good idea, I like it. > > Me too. Which part? If this is about the manual organization, I fail to see what's wrong with the current one, where Contributing is a chapter -- you don't get any more prominent than that. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 01 06:21:11 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2021 10:21:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54755 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWFfD-0000jJ-0Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:21:11 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:52292) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWFf8-0000iT-Vl for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:21:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=MNCZ5xi3uZy1HUpjqncBQz09Zf/Ovy1T3ApZS45UujM=; b=XKGuTieDngDjDfsOujEkkwKg7y Xzn2N/poen7FRRNxnoAv11luKOMO7kfucP1V+l6j0+JR0yKXJW7qnwt2peyKpPZXSdG1VWALnC/x7 wmFg9A3d6vTOri2dZ9HPtKi4GaRmJO4VtUWtGx6jxZQ69VPs3VB4tXlYQtcznQ56pAh0=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mWFez-0007ts-JF; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 12:20:59 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> <25d8d72022560012a303@heytings.org> <87a6jtw6ki.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgrtdp6e.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAAlQTFRF 0K6PNzEs////OZlX6wAAAAFiS0dEAmYLfGQAAAAJcEhZcwAACxIAAAsSAdLdfvwAAAAHdElNRQfl CgEKFCP5D3ykAAAASElEQVQoz2NgGCYgNBTBZgwNdYBzWENDA+Ac0dBQFyQtoa5YOYwgjgMuTihx nBAHJKNDkTmO2J3DGhoigvCCgyjCCyieG9oAACIWFVbu726BAAAAWmVYSWZNTQAqAAAACAAFARIA AwAAAAEAAQAAARoABQAAAAEAAABKARsABQAAAAEAAABSASgAAwAAAAEAAgAAAhMAAwAAAAEAAQAA AAAAAAAAAEgAAAABAAAASAAAAAEfUvc0AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIxLTEwLTAxVDEw OjIwOjM1KzAwOjAwyW/YFgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMS0xMC0wMVQxMDoyMDozNSsw MDowMLgyYKoAAAAXdEVYdGV4aWY6WUNiQ3JQb3NpdGlvbmluZwAxrA+AYwAAADh0RVh0aWNjOmNv cHlyaWdodABDb3B5cmlnaHQgKGMpIDE5OTggSGV3bGV0dC1QYWNrYXJkIENvbXBhbnn5V3k3AAAA IXRFWHRpY2M6ZGVzY3JpcHRpb24Ac1JHQiBJRUM2MTk2Ni0yLjFXrdpHAAAAJnRFWHRpY2M6bWFu dWZhY3R1cmVyAElFQyBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmllYy5jaBx/AEwAAAA3dEVYdGljYzptb2RlbABJRUMg NjE5NjYtMi4xIERlZmF1bHQgUkdCIGNvbG91ciBzcGFjZSAtIHNSR0JEU0ipAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: The Notwist's _Vertigo Dubs Vol. 1: Odd Nosdam_: "Ship (Odd Nosdam Remix)" Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 12:20:55 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83zgrtdp6e.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 01 Oct 2021 13:17:45 +0300") Message-ID: <87r1d5xczc.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Me too. > > Which part? If this is about the manual organization, I fail to see > what's wrong with the current one, where Contributing is a chapter -- > you don't get any more prominent than that. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: gregory@heytings.org, stefan@marxist.se, 50880@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Me too. > > Which part? If this is about the manual organization, I fail to see > what's wrong with the current one, where Contributing is a chapter -- > you don't get any more prominent than that. No, this is the `C-h C-h' buffer output. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 01 06:28:29 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2021 10:28:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54766 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWFmH-00013a-Gs for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:28:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42692) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWFmG-00013O-44 for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:28:28 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:43868) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWFmA-0002cx-7T; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:28:22 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1415 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWFm9-0007lh-Q7; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:28:22 -0400 Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 13:28:02 +0300 Message-Id: <83v92hdop9.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87r1d5xczc.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Fri, 01 Oct 2021 12:20:55 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> <25d8d72022560012a303@heytings.org> <87a6jtw6ki.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgrtdp6e.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1d5xczc.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: gregory@heytings.org, stefan@marxist.se, 50880@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: stefan@marxist.se, gregory@heytings.org, 50880@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 12:20:55 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> Me too. > > > > Which part? If this is about the manual organization, I fail to see > > what's wrong with the current one, where Contributing is a chapter -- > > you don't get any more prominent than that. > > No, this is the `C-h C-h' buffer output. But then all of those are already there? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 01 06:33:06 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2021 10:33:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54770 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWFqk-0001Be-4I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:33:06 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:52354) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWFqi-0001BA-GG for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:33:04 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=msO8BvWNoajaLOahvdkIOaR3eNLyFNbuwjR6Buq4DXo=; b=K0bWTOWr+hOylG8VjHf8dE15G7 6a11lqql/aC7INSR4dDU83yu5BntO0edyNmfdcLG4DpNhX+ipO0IhvRz1KWsIv25HtzFUDF3p14GW X9GS4P9nrj4fpMsceMlMqVyUJZgnXvxtHV8LbHHCE2TsHNplpIbrNJmNUj+k0mLWPefs=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mWFqZ-0007z1-2L; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 12:32:57 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> <25d8d72022560012a303@heytings.org> <87a6jtw6ki.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgrtdp6e.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1d5xczc.fsf@gnus.org> <83v92hdop9.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAAlQTFRF 0K6PNzEs////OZlX6wAAAAFiS0dEAmYLfGQAAAAJcEhZcwAACxIAAAsSAdLdfvwAAAAHdElNRQfl CgEKFCP5D3ykAAAASElEQVQoz2NgGCYgNBTBZgwNdYBzWENDA+Ac0dBQFyQtoa5YOYwgjgMuTihx nBAHJKNDkTmO2J3DGhoigvCCgyjCCyieG9oAACIWFVbu726BAAAAWmVYSWZNTQAqAAAACAAFARIA AwAAAAEAAQAAARoABQAAAAEAAABKARsABQAAAAEAAABSASgAAwAAAAEAAgAAAhMAAwAAAAEAAQAA AAAAAAAAAEgAAAABAAAASAAAAAEfUvc0AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIxLTEwLTAxVDEw OjIwOjM1KzAwOjAwyW/YFgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMS0xMC0wMVQxMDoyMDozNSsw MDowMLgyYKoAAAAXdEVYdGV4aWY6WUNiQ3JQb3NpdGlvbmluZwAxrA+AYwAAADh0RVh0aWNjOmNv cHlyaWdodABDb3B5cmlnaHQgKGMpIDE5OTggSGV3bGV0dC1QYWNrYXJkIENvbXBhbnn5V3k3AAAA IXRFWHRpY2M6ZGVzY3JpcHRpb24Ac1JHQiBJRUM2MTk2Ni0yLjFXrdpHAAAAJnRFWHRpY2M6bWFu dWZhY3R1cmVyAElFQyBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmllYy5jaBx/AEwAAAA3dEVYdGljYzptb2RlbABJRUMg NjE5NjYtMi4xIERlZmF1bHQgUkdCIGNvbG91ciBzcGFjZSAtIHNSR0JEU0ipAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: The Notwist's _Vertigo Dubs Vol. 1: Odd Nosdam_: "Ship (Odd Nosdam Remix)" Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 12:32:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83v92hdop9.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 01 Oct 2021 13:28:02 +0300") Message-ID: <87mtntxcfd.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> No, this is the `C-h C-h' buffer output. > > But then all of those are already there? Not the "Contributing" one, which is why we're discussing adding a key stroke to it so that it'll appear there, too. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: gregory@heytings.org, stefan@marxist.se, 50880@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> No, this is the `C-h C-h' buffer output. > > But then all of those are already there? Not the "Contributing" one, which is why we're discussing adding a key stroke to it so that it'll appear there, too. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 01 07:00:51 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2021 11:00:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54790 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWGHb-0001s6-8s for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 07:00:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48304) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWGHX-0001rn-83 for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 07:00:49 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:48296) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWGHR-0004cl-DF; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 07:00:41 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3436 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWGHH-0002CX-40; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 07:00:39 -0400 Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 14:00:11 +0300 Message-Id: <83r1d5dn7o.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87mtntxcfd.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Fri, 01 Oct 2021 12:32:54 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> <25d8d72022560012a303@heytings.org> <87a6jtw6ki.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgrtdp6e.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1d5xczc.fsf@gnus.org> <83v92hdop9.fsf@gnu.org> <87mtntxcfd.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: gregory@heytings.org, stefan@marxist.se, 50880@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: stefan@marxist.se, gregory@heytings.org, 50880@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 12:32:54 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> No, this is the `C-h C-h' buffer output. > > > > But then all of those are already there? > > Not the "Contributing" one, which is why we're discussing adding a key > stroke to it so that it'll appear there, too. And I already said what I think about it: to me it sounds like a waste to reserve a C-h key for that. It doesn't even belong to "help" per se, IMO. 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b=w9nhwoLR6xZVdRf5TxdPlUcNPWz5NgpqMiRebfYtzQR9lZZOws+obWi0XFYB5AbWIHA0f7nV6Suh3VPDryIfQqRy/skd3Jlc6eN9WBJISCUTmiiqMwFpuHlVLpC/LdTcMLVR9UHNV9uOhyNDJuKRch2OD1X2aX2c5PilWuPwTbk= Received: from CO6PR10MB5473.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:5:355::21) by MWHPR10MB1630.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:301:a::15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4566.14; Fri, 1 Oct 2021 17:08:04 +0000 Received: from CO6PR10MB5473.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2539:8e21:118e:865d]) by CO6PR10MB5473.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2539:8e21:118e:865d%6]) with mapi id 15.20.4566.019; Fri, 1 Oct 2021 17:08:04 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Eli Zaretskii , Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: RE: [External] : bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) Thread-Index: AQHXtrOvJl4l2ebUdEOfBETwKIvaVKu+X9lA Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 17:08:04 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> <25d8d72022560012a303@heytings.org> <87a6jtw6ki.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgrtdp6e.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1d5xczc.fsf@gnus.org> <83v92hdop9.fsf@gnu.org> <87mtntxcfd.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1d5dn7o.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83r1d5dn7o.fsf@gnu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gnu.org; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CO6PR10MB5473.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0075606b-b70e-4915-6c60-08d984fe0824 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Oct 2021 17:08:04.1217 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: W6mOl6+M3qL+C5FYHaWjirpAMupG5zfDehprh+bNQvzb4GNLHKhQBHjfZE7SVcbv8DFCdcsshqPRNnFe1uDtUg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR10MB1630 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6300 definitions=10124 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=976 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2109230001 definitions=main-2110010121 X-Proofpoint-GUID: CVXumDcUGmQeITUpX9AsgiHtdC9cm9R5 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: CVXumDcUGmQeITUpX9AsgiHtdC9cm9R5 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: "gregory@heytings.org" , "stefan@marxist.se" , "50880@debbugs.gnu.org" <50880@debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > And I already said what I think about it: to me it sounds like a waste > to reserve a C-h key for that. It doesn't even belong to "help" per > se, IMO. +1. Just because some key is not yet taken, that's not a good reason to assign it eagerly or willy nilly. And to me this sounds like such an assignment - this doesn't need a key sequence. The need identified was just to call more attention to it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 01 14:46:15 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2021 18:46:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57333 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWNXz-0006Rd-8o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 14:46:15 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f182.google.com ([209.85.215.182]:38738) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWNXv-0006RM-HI for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 14:46:14 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f182.google.com with SMTP id s75so10246902pgs.5 for <50880@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 11:46:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=MEEIGA0VDqensz3hisJhlkjcf2BT/HsEvaN9j0ZQ3BQ=; b=ID98d+w6PJQpGTkRxRujvSU+Im5istRh5BsjFeay+Obbcy5bZQjRnreLf9OseJLXb5 FxNtrbiRkTTR3uDS1M4tfdj1PGEFXBGpcZuKu6moHnoCycu4EmWRKhWHqCFfBUm578U5 Z57ac5mhZiV4UgabqoBuMFzd5X1kSKcI0jk6unjkr9/EuCkQCzyQC2ZNGPRwnAxMEV9T HNd3UrmWtMzj2sBT3OA2uMksc7EdQEXT0Ey8ATVVKevEVZpup2pE5Q4ZjurDDx1uWNHt 8MJAKDsehGts7IbJGWvsy1CITdCgw7gZguDMMecpGfnJhwSljALkoK/hDzOBo9HxPkV2 vtOQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ITGExDvB2+q73KwwdagHYHvB0O0bZt131oZcPmdBHf1bVICw/ /XNtKDq7IGLKPoqMFQsudyjG9yT/ClODj663IQs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyNGJB7ta0m8hZ8meGdAvwukbKmRlxlYtqg9JR/kKPe9zwLs7vdWyQhT94P6qS0rcpl/IIpeF1BsK6xYzyRsdE= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:9e90:0:b0:43f:2abb:a504 with SMTP id p16-20020aa79e90000000b0043f2abba504mr12746234pfq.35.1633113965566; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 11:46:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> <25d8d72022560012a303@heytings.org> <87a6jtw6ki.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgrtdp6e.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1d5xczc.fsf@gnus.org> <83v92hdop9.fsf@gnu.org> <87mtntxcfd.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1d5dn7o.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83r1d5dn7o.fsf@gnu.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 20:45:54 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: 50880@debbugs.gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen , Gregory Heytings X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > And I already said what I think about it: to me it sounds like a waste > to reserve a C-h key for that. It doesn't even belong to "help" per > se, IMO. Whether or not it belongs should not be treated formalistically, because then we might as well remove the entry "About the GNU project". The point of this is to encourage more contributions to Emacs, and the cost for doing so is low. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 01 14:58:39 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2021 18:58:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57338 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWNjz-0006oQ-Cu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 14:58:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47388) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWNjv-0006oC-B0 for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 14:58:37 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53924) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWNjo-0000wY-MG; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 14:58:28 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1192 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWNjo-0006oK-9q; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 14:58:28 -0400 Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 21:58:09 +0300 Message-Id: <83tui0d132.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Fri, 1 Oct 2021 20:45:54 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> <25d8d72022560012a303@heytings.org> <87a6jtw6ki.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgrtdp6e.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1d5xczc.fsf@gnus.org> <83v92hdop9.fsf@gnu.org> <87mtntxcfd.fsf@gnus.org> <83r1d5dn7o.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: 50880@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, gregory@heytings.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 20:45:54 +0200 > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Gregory Heytings , 50880@debbugs.gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > And I already said what I think about it: to me it sounds like a waste > > to reserve a C-h key for that. It doesn't even belong to "help" per > > se, IMO. > > Whether or not it belongs should not be treated formalistically, > because then we might as well remove the entry "About the GNU > project". No, because "About" is a de-facto standard item in the Help menu of many programs. We just made 2 of them instead of just one. > The point of this is to encourage more contributions to Emacs, and > the cost for doing so is low. But why does it need a key binding? Not every command has a key binding, and not having one doesn't mean the command isn't important. Assigning a key binding is NOT low-cost, especially in a crowded keymap such as C-h. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 02 19:17:43 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Oct 2021 23:17:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60771 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWoGE-00013I-VC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 19:17:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49860) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWoGE-0000zH-1d for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 19:17:42 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35712) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWoG8-0003wb-LS; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 19:17:36 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWoG7-0000XP-Ks; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 19:17:36 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: <83zgrtdp6e.fsf@gnu.org> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Fri, 01 Oct 2021 13:17:45 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> <25d8d72022560012a303@heytings.org> <87a6jtw6ki.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgrtdp6e.fsf@gnu.org> Message-Id: Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2021 19:17:35 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: 50880@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, gregory@heytings.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > >> C-h g -> About the GNU project > > >> C-h G -> Emacs copying permission (GNU General Public License) > > >> C-h C-c -> Contributing > > > IMO the best proposal so far, but Lars didn't want to move the GPL > > > from 'C-h C-c' so that part unfortunately makes it a non-starter. > > > > I'm not dead set against it -- it's not like these are commands that > > people use heavily. But that cuts the other way, too -- making this new > > command mnemonic isn't really that important, either, since I'd assume > > that people would be accessing them via `C-h C-h' and then paging down, > > entering whatever key it says they should use. I.e., nobody's > > remembering these keystrokes anyway. > > > > Perhaps Eli has an opinion here? > How about not giving it a key binding at all? Why is a key binding > important in this case? It's not like people will want to read that > section twice a day. I agree. Given that key bindings are somewhat scarce, it's good to avoid using them up for commands that don't really need one. However, it may be necessary to give it a key binding so it can appear in the Help menu. And having it appear there is useful. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 02 19:51:24 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Oct 2021 23:51:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60781 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWomq-000238-1l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 19:51:24 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f46.google.com ([209.85.216.46]:46742) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWomn-00022v-UH for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 19:51:22 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f46.google.com with SMTP id oj15-20020a17090b4d8f00b0019f8860d6e2so2674875pjb.5 for <50880@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 16:51:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uHhizhfK0okSExfNaO2DIwaP+AxtvqvCHTa0XelN2Z4=; b=dqdPMlbmRh/lXeqfWxcHJQzO9S/G5dowCFNc8gniFRfndS8Z5WVUdgWh51RxLR5auY LvgCDtmehmQ0FVCBkv3rgWTRsuY49Eo7JyhjNEgV1GwUt9kwD4hhH7Xd5itVHNKPOtxN N0NAf4318Czf/nQ6h6w9WfEGff2lALlMcPFgBWcjmkrZd6WKRA3yhOIwEl6ALFcKAasz 9D3GiI46QVahPOY4fumCaEBGT1gGTKEQvU41m0rRCgnBUphncuy9IZ3i4Kv5dw1QRDOk Ouxs6TgzJkQ3JRuPcQLXjoinDOkM/x+x4BycI/cvwu7vpgvcoXAtwkCjtZf4FR0G3i/5 0Gxg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531KBbZyV+uyPb49akOnCVQ59hYTOnCO8iWRwzrprc9VBUDC9kS+ iTNBRb1s7Jz8+UNkR2IsKntBZLR4+tZgt6HRzSo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxkJ7ernmqPSJLZYU+SVDn0hwQuu+YLzosYcfreXwycuYcNIM+3y9PcvDoHGDaUYkbsvMsgHOCX9gTdKrARzzQ= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:460a:: with SMTP id w10mr28234722pjg.132.1633218676070; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 16:51:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> <25d8d72022560012a303@heytings.org> <87a6jtw6ki.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgrtdp6e.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2021 01:51:04 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) To: Richard Stallman Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: 50880@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Gregory Heytings , Lars Ingebrigtsen X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Richard Stallman writes: > However, it may be necessary to give it a key binding > so it can appear in the Help menu. And having it appear there > is useful. That's indeed the only reason it would need one. Adding a new command to the help-for-help screen without out a keybinding makes it go from looking basically acceptable to very visually unbalanced. Unfortunately, that is basically unavoidable with it's tabular format. If we really don't want a keybininding, I think this aspect would make it not worth adding to the help-for-help screen, and the question then would be if the command is even worth adding at all. I'm biased, of course, as I spent some time making sure that the help-for-help screen looks acceptable. I hope that we can attempt to preserve that new good look by not adding new commands without keybindings to it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 03 01:57:50 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Oct 2021 05:57:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60892 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWuVS-00036Y-1i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Oct 2021 01:57:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50948) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWuVQ-00036L-0V for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Oct 2021 01:57:48 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:41156) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWuVK-0006B7-Ku; Sun, 03 Oct 2021 01:57:42 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2939 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWuVE-0006pj-HZ; Sun, 03 Oct 2021 01:57:36 -0400 Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2021 08:57:23 +0300 Message-Id: <83ilyeabwc.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (message from Richard Stallman on Sat, 02 Oct 2021 19:17:35 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> <25d8d72022560012a303@heytings.org> <87a6jtw6ki.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgrtdp6e.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: 50880@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se, gregory@heytings.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Richard Stallman > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, gregory@heytings.org, stefan@marxist.se, > 50880@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2021 19:17:35 -0400 > > However, it may be necessary to give it a key binding > so it can appear in the Help menu. And having it appear there > is useful. We can have it in the Help menu without a key binding, there's no requirement that it does have a binding for that. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 03 07:55:00 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Oct 2021 11:55:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33041 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mX056-00052k-P1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Oct 2021 07:55:00 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f45.google.com ([209.85.216.45]:38452) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mX053-00052W-UF for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Oct 2021 07:54:59 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f45.google.com with SMTP id g13-20020a17090a3c8d00b00196286963b9so700418pjc.3 for <50880@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 03 Oct 2021 04:54:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ejE6GhdO6EPpDlxAbm/OSomzYe6Qr8sBwdZJmt7FzJs=; b=abZ152ngm5R1eWCuHoLxDdFByKBzNamBX50V0Jtm9hmXxzDr5aPH7XH2ejO1ib8ymQ rZrDPfzl1ZNzaFLPXNg3rvQ0VCROJvYgegpnL2YEtivfD8ELl1bj92YqnRK+Ee3oGIH6 Pi1qyovoJ6Af06onbMq7u60YWUZeudj/A70YXs8AFzF0x1q2VN7zfJ+Y1VC+881WwxC4 9q7TwVs7Vtk01rHMBs5R7BRHFL1PDLiR0vY72K3bM181ABLpEi4lWUjwxBdjVEXjzbOo YzL8HdzcILkSvLlHYSq3ZO0+lAM+DoZBsp75D00YoYGLEEoRO+SlfybvUp6u/e7nU+pB RcXA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531lJAJ7yGRJWipVwpib7qWmAdgvycorwnrhH6jJT+kroH40U0gH TZB8674WqK0tSEAHMQiiwMdSuRF5txakUP6ROU4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyzVdxKrL8ykgHSbpy9W1TAU327uVk37Vxl4z8fUycBzW7C187aCfNrLxx0fh5OgyE+r8jMjafRdFI85JFRSKc= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b691:b029:12d:2b6:d116 with SMTP id c17-20020a170902b691b029012d02b6d116mr18259302pls.71.1633262091785; Sun, 03 Oct 2021 04:54:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> <25d8d72022560012a303@heytings.org> <87a6jtw6ki.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgrtdp6e.fsf@gnu.org> <83ilyeabwc.fsf@gnu.org> In-Reply-To: <83ilyeabwc.fsf@gnu.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2021 13:55:24 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: 50880@debbugs.gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen , Gregory Heytings , Richard Stallman X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > We can have it in the Help menu without a key binding, there's no > requirement that it does have a binding for that. That would be worse than what we have now, for the reasons I explained. If 'C-h C-x' is too to use for speculating in recruiting contributors, I suggest we close this as wontfix instead. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 03 15:10:58 2021 Received: (at 50880) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Oct 2021 19:10:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34992 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mX6t0-0008RM-OT for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Oct 2021 15:10:58 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:60114) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mX6sw-0008RB-QA for 50880@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Oct 2021 15:10:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1633288253; bh=Yu2XNsiXT2Agm4WDZG1l7mx8stHpN62xJZ+GSNIDpV4=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=HIVZRtDCGe8GSjGRfHPq1iVOW2sg6k9oZE+kbwd/b2Ey/BdkC0s39n9UXlGd2eJfN qRa1juvKfdvxLyUZAtcliN7pb+TWc2yGS0U+mAkYZ6JrkByMMpkeoeR+3CrBbujZoE Lfz16sOzdhBQRZ+MZa/y/xOztz6KIErObp0wvSmxxpiJzeHdIFmD6WyRp9KMX88CF6 J7SRXlK4+7TPytK05GJTdgLGgzPT/rFmCekgYKdND9WwyezTyyttTtnOEYzPpQ9UKw Z/JyTIb28xh+HFi2UHOvjyKOKggj9Uw0mZKR97k5irPxzVY9AiC06Kbc+u3ybqBQup j4cbBLGPeJnSA== Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2021 19:10:52 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#50880: Add "Contributing to Emacs" help command (see C-h C-h) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <8735pndfna.fsf@gnus.org> <878rzf9xtk.fsf@gnus.org> <25d8d72022560012a303@heytings.org> <87a6jtw6ki.fsf@gnus.org> <83zgrtdp6e.fsf@gnu.org> <83ilyeabwc.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50880 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Eli Zaretskii , 50880@debbugs.gnu.org, Richard Stallman X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > > If 'C-h C-x' is too to use for speculating in > recruiting contributors, I suggest we close this as wontfix instead. > There's still one solution that should satisfy everyone, because it does not "consume" any of the still free key bindings. It would give the following section in help-for-help (aka C-h C-h): Miscellaneous C-a About Emacs C-f Emacs FAQ C-n News of recent changes C-m Order printed manuals C-p Known problems C-d Debugging Emacs C-c Contribute improvements to Emacs C-t Emacs TODO g About the GNU project G Emacs copying permission (GNU General Public License) C-o Emacs ordering and distribution information C-w Information on absence of warranty From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 30 12:09:32 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Oct 2021 16:09:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58259 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mgqvE-0002M2-B8 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Oct 2021 12:09:32 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f179.google.com ([209.85.215.179]:42701) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mgqvA-0002LT-HN for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 30 Oct 2021 12:09:28 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f179.google.com with SMTP id t7so12875506pgl.9 for ; Sat, 30 Oct 2021 09:09:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=4WEHE93jVOtzl42Gpwmda2T2nBAQWa5aJKVPEwmkd4U=; b=B6PmWw7uNO29madW4gFGHaiLHaeYeprBUsDZhgHHCHWFCW27xcspahHL7Dwl9sU26U 60r41LkvK1FI4GZc/rbUglSHlMQbg12AXd0Z8xO+efINFz250Al97NgQ59YO7y4Dsw7V UbXYD6n4K5llDtSXFASk7wPvCiEgTQWTxEnXMyFhg7ljIfnlJTmfmRyOnNNYWyVYeUrs jEtTSaj1xVR6oa9mgcIYZXp2ni/nT7IAAHFkodn1CQydEe17tjRs7GLIqpeHjmvY6EYd 9pEHc98N5IW90a5AdLJQwBKYF0nGl/VxD3eUAPUIuLU8m7thoEmz7POOmvSJ/sZKLvFE Wh/w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532yUMlTSo7RyR0b0Dn+xjJyI6/Q9GlL7JdkbnW/VZKnR0KrnvDB utVftCReZUEEIrYHuboYuItqnpLrlvXqJE/Fv9wbXuU0 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyihqynMqak7sX8b8gL1I3Yyw/QQkzfO0eKNG1fwJK2Bot6RbwgQyCFnr0xZu4ceS35tT0Yps1Yyz4d+XVdkdg= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:99c3:0:b0:47b:e21d:7315 with SMTP id v3-20020aa799c3000000b0047be21d7315mr17816310pfi.35.1635610157924; Sat, 30 Oct 2021 09:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 30 Oct 2021 09:09:17 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 09:09:17 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: control message for bug #50880 To: control@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) tags 50880 wontfix close 50880 quit From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:10:02 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2021 12:24:08 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator