From unknown Sat Sep 20 07:50:35 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#50775 <50775@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#50775 <50775@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: ispell help message times out before most people can read it Reply-To: bug#50775 <50775@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2025 14:50:35 +0000 retitle 50775 ispell help message times out before most people can read it reassign 50775 emacs submitter 50775 =E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC Dan Jacobson severity 50775 normal tag 50775 fixed thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 24 09:24:35 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2021 13:24:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56942 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mTlBq-0004k4-VO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 09:24:35 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:59746) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mTlBq-0004jr-7W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 09:24:34 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57904) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mTlBq-0000pj-1p for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 09:24:34 -0400 Received: from olivedrab.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.135]:7171) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mTlBn-0008D7-UZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 09:24:33 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D79A41225EE for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 13:24:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-16-65.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.16.65]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id DDB401220F9 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 13:24:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 100.96.16.65 (trex/6.4.3); Fri, 24 Sep 2021 13:24:27 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Chemical-Bottle: 49b54efa33f93027_1632489867216_3103360100 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1632489867215:4025289376 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1632489867215 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8234987A98 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 06:24:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to :subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s= jidanni.org; bh=Zu9yVwzIn6Oe+sz3NqjRCG1tHzg=; b=AZlB5owCoqGWTtUt UhgncbxEtlq2rjlJ+Lu2stmB1r8kVFzZ9JcMxhStVScvyjUg0TTZBOGvLf8vGR/J AabMQK6QkGiOMqdA06WFQQNENUhA8N8XlVvuJ6KKwShWhlaR/SxiGL3b17xYC+fE TrxqLEQH8HLzMPeaJHJyPmkN8qg= Received: from jidanni.org (36-234-98-48.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [36.234.98.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 417B486427 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 06:24:25 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a55 From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: ispell help message times out before most people can read it Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 21:13:18 +0800 Message-ID: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=23.83.209.135; envelope-from=jidanni@jidanni.org; helo=olivedrab.birch.relay.mailchannels.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) I typed $ ;; ispell-word then I typed ? ? ? ? in fact I need to type even more of them. That's because the three line message that "?" shows times out in one second. But some people need more than one second to read it. So I have a better idea. Make it into a four line message, so that way there would be no need to switch back to the original prompt, because the original prompt would now be at the bottom, just like before. emacs-version "27.1" From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 24 09:40:39 2021 Received: (at 50775) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2021 13:40:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56978 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mTlRP-0005IO-7j for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 09:40:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43130) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mTlRN-0005I7-2x for 50775@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 09:40:37 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53298) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mTlRH-0002XF-DJ; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 09:40:31 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1524 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mTlR9-0000Cp-2v; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 09:40:31 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 16:40:17 +0300 Message-Id: <83y27mrt1a.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson In-Reply-To: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> Subject: Re: bug#50775: ispell help message times out before most people can read it References: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50775 Cc: 50775@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson > > Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 21:13:18 +0800 > > I typed > $ ;; ispell-word > then I typed > ? ? ? ? > in fact I need to type even more of them. > > That's because the three line message that "?" > shows times out in one second. For me, it times out in 5 sec, not one. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 24 09:52:47 2021 Received: (at 50775) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2021 13:52:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56995 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mTld9-0005iW-3T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 09:52:47 -0400 Received: from antelope.elm.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.212.4]:42122) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mTld7-0005iK-61 for 50775@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 09:52:45 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3675992276A; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 13:52:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-16-65.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.16.65]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id E19C2922976; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 13:52:41 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 100.96.16.65 (trex/6.4.3); Fri, 24 Sep 2021 13:52:42 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Stupid-Juvenile: 72fe9077581b4e71_1632491561982_1673662356 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1632491561982:2717427838 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1632491561981 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E99A806D9; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 06:52:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=jidanni.org; bh=uufg7qeFeGpmhI4srrA5pnBzxqc=; b=jZbPIH9dXoD7Z urqK7ZeQ8tElnX+VOTmZXFoQw3l0gR4Vk6MB1DMintOKBgLRFzV42Cvhyfgbz50A k9QE4oYlsykDQG2tN+IED/PQpBO6X38bRqqY+gJBUsIWUu1pRFzqYGJkaFibMQiF LV7XKlVPVtEQS0PEKSMKEQA8+HvkxE= Received: from jidanni.org (36-234-98-48.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [36.234.98.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CF567805EB; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 06:52:40 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a55 From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#50775: ispell help message times out before most people can read it References: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <83y27mrt1a.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 21:52:34 +0800 Message-ID: <8735pu84il.5.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: EZ> For me, it times out in 5 sec, not one. In fact you're right! But it is way to short for many of us. Content analysis details: (1.2 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.2 RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET RBL: Received via a relay in bl.spamcop.net [Blocked - see ] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [23.83.212.4 listed in list.dnswl.org] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 RBL: Average reputation (+2) [23.83.212.4 listed in wl.mailspike.net] X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50775 Cc: 50775@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) EZ> For me, it times out in 5 sec, not one. In fact you're right! But it is way to short for many of us. Indeed it violates web accessibility. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 24 10:05:51 2021 Received: (at 50775) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2021 14:05:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58960 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mTlpm-0006gj-UQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 10:05:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47888) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mTlpl-0006gS-LA for 50775@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 10:05:49 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54330) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mTlpf-0002xv-Cr; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 10:05:44 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3056 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mTlpZ-00051g-Sf; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 10:05:43 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 17:05:30 +0300 Message-Id: <83tuiarrv9.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson In-Reply-To: <8735pu84il.5.fsf@jidanni.org> (message from =?utf-8?B?56mN?= =?utf-8?B?5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson on Fri, 24 Sep 2021 21:52:34 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#50775: ispell help message times out before most people can read it References: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <83y27mrt1a.fsf@gnu.org> <8735pu84il.5.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50775 Cc: 50775@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson > Cc: 50775@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 21:52:34 +0800 > > EZ> For me, it times out in 5 sec, not one. > > In fact you're right! > > But it is way to short for many of us. It's a simple matter of increasing the timeout, since when the user touches any key, the help goes away. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 24 10:35:08 2021 Received: (at 50775) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2021 14:35:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59005 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mTmI8-0001MY-5A for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 10:35:08 -0400 Received: from eastern.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.55]:9317) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mTmI6-0001Lz-1T for 50775@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 10:35:06 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05AEA40296C; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 14:35:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-18-141.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.18.141]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 66425402A2E; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 14:34:57 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 100.96.18.141 (trex/6.4.3); Fri, 24 Sep 2021 14:35:00 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Thoughtful-Abortive: 795f8368551246e4_1632494097633_4062721791 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1632494097633:2524181678 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1632494097633 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 638BC86427; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 07:34:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=jidanni.org; bh=mV2QgrdQGSE4ZhnusYpNiuk782U=; b=S96JhfKj4OF5C Y+fhdQZrcSk73aO+elJvnpV6RAFjAukBUuzJhxiVv81eyXBTj4eoJ+TtV68Cne8l /mgpAQrj57YzXGPYLOC6IETsux8bqivEPKCbGdyPDXYzh/TWM5uQ3ZAMBKfmdGaT l2TphU4gzXjgv7rjudedDH+jeIXJGQ= Received: from jidanni.org (36-234-98-48.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [36.234.98.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B4B5D86182; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 07:34:53 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a55 From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#50775: ispell help message times out before most people can read it References: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <83y27mrt1a.fsf@gnu.org> <8735pu84il.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <83tuiarrv9.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 22:34:50 +0800 Message-ID: <87k0j66nzp.5.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50775 Cc: 50775@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) EZ> It's a simple matter of increasing the timeout, Maybe just use no timeout: EZ> since when the user touches any key, the help goes away. Anyway, slower readers would probably have a hard time figuring out how to increase the timeout. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 24 11:46:29 2021 Received: (at 50775) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2021 15:46:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59091 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mTnPB-0003ao-0k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 11:46:29 -0400 Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.232]:53283) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mTnP8-0003aD-0D for 50775@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 11:46:26 -0400 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 31F8C200003; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 15:46:18 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#50775: ispell help message times out before most people can read it Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <83y27mrt1a.fsf@gnu.org> <8735pu84il.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <83tuiarrv9.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 18:39:03 +0300 In-Reply-To: <83tuiarrv9.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 24 Sep 2021 17:05:30 +0300") Message-ID: <87fstukoca.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50775 Cc: 50775@debbugs.gnu.org, =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> EZ> For me, it times out in 5 sec, not one. >> >> In fact you're right! >> >> But it is way to short for many of us. > > It's a simple matter of increasing the timeout, since when the user > touches any key, the help goes away. I have another problem with ispell timeouts: oftentimes text contains characters that mismatch the charsets used by ispell. Then ispell waits 5 sec for every such character to display a useless error message. I used such change to minimize the time spent looking at these messages: diff --git a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el index b650ab3871..f940dad460 100644 --- a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el +++ b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el @@ -2723,7 +2723,7 @@ ispell-parse-output ((equal 0 (string-match "[\ra-zA-Z]" output)) (ding) ; error message from ispell! (message "Ispell error: %s" output) - (sit-for 5) + (sit-for 1) nil) (t ; need to process &, ?, and #'s (let ((type (aref output 0)) ; &, ?, or # -- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 24 12:11:02 2021 Received: (at 50775) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Sep 2021 16:11:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59118 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mTnmv-0004OS-Tq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 12:11:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34586) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mTnmu-0004Nt-74 for 50775@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 12:11:00 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:58062) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mTnmo-00051J-LI; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 12:10:54 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2730 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mTnmn-0005hj-Qy; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 12:10:54 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 19:10:50 +0300 Message-Id: <83o88irm2d.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <87fstukoca.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Fri, 24 Sep 2021 18:39:03 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#50775: ispell help message times out before most people can read it References: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <83y27mrt1a.fsf@gnu.org> <8735pu84il.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <83tuiarrv9.fsf@gnu.org> <87fstukoca.fsf@mail.linkov.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50775 Cc: 50775@debbugs.gnu.org, jidanni@jidanni.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson , > 50775@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 18:39:03 +0300 > > >> EZ> For me, it times out in 5 sec, not one. > >> > >> In fact you're right! > >> > >> But it is way to short for many of us. > > > > It's a simple matter of increasing the timeout, since when the user > > touches any key, the help goes away. > > I have another problem with ispell timeouts: oftentimes text contains > characters that mismatch the charsets used by ispell. Then ispell > waits 5 sec for every such character to display a useless error message. > I used such change to minimize the time spent looking at these messages: Are you still using Ispell the program as the spell-checking back-end? AFAIK, this only happens with that old speller, but not with Hunspell or Aspell. That said, I have no problem with the proposed patch, since I don't think this message should happen in any reasonable use nowadays. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 24 22:26:15 2021 Received: (at 50775) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2021 02:26:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59871 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mTxOI-00060V-Vo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 22:26:15 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:34376) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mTxOG-000600-Sf for 50775@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 24 Sep 2021 22:26:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ntuwlbbUHjl5W/qEDjXDeepLiXKGvC2dpzoMhVSRzYM=; b=Q11XBJ48OehSLuN0cJtowrVmat kY+NWjNFenpbET9eVTAEgEMUaZ5oCLTPDprUajD88JqI8aRX+Z86T1umPfdvLsiF+s/ZaYkOnMnLP vaNf7O6P8owtH55ZRWvAEvDBLMi+LHzJt7GVFW+HlYyA0w1tXzHHfyApPJtuwXVR93x0=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mTxO8-000088-4G; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 04:26:06 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson Subject: Re: bug#50775: ispell help message times out before most people can read it References: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> X-Now-Playing: Bertine Zetlitz's _Beautiful So Far_: "Beautiful So Far" Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 04:26:03 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> (=?utf-8?B?IuepjeS4ueWwvA==?= Dan Jacobson"'s message of "Fri, 24 Sep 2021 21:13:18 +0800") Message-ID: <875yuppf0k.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson writes: > That's because the three line message that "?" > shows times out in one second. > > But some people need more than one second to read it. I've now added a new user option 'ispell-help-timeout' so that you can control this. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50775 Cc: 50775@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) =E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC Dan Jacobson writes: > That's because the three line message that "?" > shows times out in one second. > > But some people need more than one second to read it. I've now added a new user option 'ispell-help-timeout' so that you can control this. > So I have a better idea. > > Make it into a four line message, so that way there would be no > need to switch back to the original prompt, because the original prompt > would now be at the bottom, just like before. Hm... That's a good idea, I think. But how does that affect people that have a lower number on the max height of the echo area? --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 25 14:17:36 2021 Received: (at 50775) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2021 18:17:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34671 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUCEy-0008Rs-F1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 14:17:36 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f48.google.com ([209.85.216.48]:38622) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUCEv-0008RU-FY for 50775@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 14:17:33 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f48.google.com with SMTP id g13-20020a17090a3c8d00b00196286963b9so12049701pjc.3 for <50775@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 11:17:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=m88fAD67PgRWFuHmbYevCHPPyeZXs/paGOFdoxBcYng=; b=dOm4riwgR7k11HVkmI5oonB8FlLlyZwD1kixeSPxYxXi0JlsnaXMKrpeV9gEdGIqau 9yKBIqgLiL4Ma/zSXEddNPnI825Fa33P6lnG9dFJer4J+JlaJcDkaKMvOD7AqoyeHkZu TYFqOOJ5meMp7pI1US5XKbTHoiCcJxX4UBBEHugLKitMM0QnTTzHwanM9WhjHulfWaYj e9VMXqRFpxD7k1w5vaMJ1QV3LPTR2xhPqKNiOqXzj1Xh9vc9vAHusBdQpdMEH/0i6lwY pITgdjq2jxovdNO9FDGapoyEzx60Djw2wuaHJ/+ASKWaAXVN2st+yjw0AvgMnGrrVDyI 4ucA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533K4CDEIGND35s/awoyXcdubxloqIoVEsRT3ygWblxo43qYGqHr UxVqMwcTarE0AfdFdNO3mSUxX+vkQQriUlu0To46WPLcvWU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx9oMge6q5FDGSvww36T31zMlk1fc0JpoQZzKXmjdhKgIybjG08Pa8ZfSRPXzuMZQ0ewlfwz7cpNROOdwMU6bI= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:460a:: with SMTP id w10mr9477633pjg.132.1632593847929; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 11:17:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 11:17:27 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <875yuppf0k.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 25 Sep 2021 04:26:03 +0200") References: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <875yuppf0k.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 11:17:27 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#50775: ispell help message times out before most people can read it To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50775 Cc: 50775@debbugs.gnu.org, =?UTF-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8IERhbiBKYWNvYnNvbg==?= X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > =E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC Dan Jacobson writes: > >> That's because the three line message that "?" >> shows times out in one second. >> >> But some people need more than one second to read it. > > I've now added a new user option 'ispell-help-timeout' so that you can > control this. Do we even need a timeout here? If yes, could we double the default to 10? Or nil to disable it, even? >> So I have a better idea. >> >> Make it into a four line message, so that way there would be no >> need to switch back to the original prompt, because the original prompt >> would now be at the bottom, just like before. > > Hm... That's a good idea, I think. But how does that affect people > that have a lower number on the max height of the echo area? That would be even better, IMO. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 25 14:52:13 2021 Received: (at 50775) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2021 18:52:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34741 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUCmT-000355-KU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 14:52:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42792) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUCmR-00034s-PS for 50775@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 14:52:12 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52510) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUCmL-0007JF-A1; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 14:52:05 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2092 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUCmJ-0005dJ-FK; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 14:52:04 -0400 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 21:52:03 +0300 Message-Id: <83fstspjxo.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 25 Sep 2021 11:17:27 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#50775: ispell help message times out before most people can read it References: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <875yuppf0k.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50775 Cc: 50775@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, jidanni@jidanni.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 11:17:27 -0700 > Cc: 50775@debbugs.gnu.org, > 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson > > > I've now added a new user option 'ispell-help-timeout' so that you can > > control this. > > Do we even need a timeout here? We've been having that for eons, so changing the default now should only be done if we have a very good reason. You have a customizable variable now, so why not change the value for your convenience? Let's not let the tail wag the dog: it's a minor issue, no need to turn the world around each time we add some minor convenience. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 25 15:15:40 2021 Received: (at 50775) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2021 19:15:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34794 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUD9A-0003gv-FB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:15:40 -0400 Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.232]:55271) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUD99-0003gW-AV for 50775@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:15:39 -0400 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 18D28200002; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 19:15:31 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#50775: ispell help message times out before most people can read it Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <83y27mrt1a.fsf@gnu.org> <8735pu84il.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <83tuiarrv9.fsf@gnu.org> <87fstukoca.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o88irm2d.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 21:57:44 +0300 In-Reply-To: <83o88irm2d.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 24 Sep 2021 19:10:50 +0300") Message-ID: <877df4bhzr.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50775 Cc: 50775@debbugs.gnu.org, jidanni@jidanni.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> I have another problem with ispell timeouts: oftentimes text contains >> characters that mismatch the charsets used by ispell. Then ispell >> waits 5 sec for every such character to display a useless error message. >> I used such change to minimize the time spent looking at these messages: > > Are you still using Ispell the program as the spell-checking back-end? > AFAIK, this only happens with that old speller, but not with Hunspell > or Aspell. > > That said, I have no problem with the proposed patch, since I don't > think this message should happen in any reasonable use nowadays. I'm seeing these errors with hunspell. Maybe it's possible to configure it to avoid errors about wrong encodings, I don't know. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 25 15:38:19 2021 Received: (at 50775) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2021 19:38:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34820 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUDV5-0004FR-JW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:38:19 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f50.google.com ([209.85.216.50]:53083) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUDV3-0004FC-8s for 50775@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:38:17 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f50.google.com with SMTP id v19so9352376pjh.2 for <50775@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:38:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=htqFWO4D/n5nDWLikfJ6yf8TE8GoPAiYz1kYloPfQS8=; b=rHHYWTS6iF5CQl4TsMNjASAq4BCyjWWzJHPZmCbHt9WHb2dxkq7FdYAhYrfR0D8mFw zdhf43KEY6RaRh1K5LfsJFS7paQJiuFXqDzgTBg2BvfA2WNUOYeMxvle2qRxeRgf2l/T kvEWX5/FwipVRBFz91WG/MK9nKYB+WdhnyHIPaWsFmxQMc6s8Hfy6bHlI/otS/D+zlVn Gtq5qJ/bd7nfvSC5Mkc0Jwf7IOQGrYOPgG21qX9Ap4GgUXixpA+EJdcytpOfH9/Ej9Xg 4MPExRw7AdHUsMJg4drNXOlamhScebZZfaKattIPUcfUOOO062smkv8fk6qZcibOjMN+ wQQQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533PYZrQ6WX1cpXN1U0BgelxYKRUKXm63VUV35HRv96b6/QQwL87 qb/Y7q/4CRVlEpmdIXoPbmr5ijyb6z/bFE+2VB4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx2s7Bt6/o3J16iKJqRE0f0zrzXam6phGSB2d08vDlhtJ+saJOUoUTQckZgJN52Erc6pC2Jey6Vz1wDI8EM8B4= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:460a:: with SMTP id w10mr9776652pjg.132.1632598691470; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:38:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:38:10 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83fstspjxo.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <875yuppf0k.fsf@gnus.org> <83fstspjxo.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:38:10 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#50775: ispell help message times out before most people can read it To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50775 Cc: 50775@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, jidanni@jidanni.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > We've been having that for eons, so changing the default now should > only be done if we have a very good reason. You have a customizable > variable now, so why not change the value for your convenience? > > Let's not let the tail wag the dog: it's a minor issue, no need to > turn the world around each time we add some minor convenience. [ Removing a timeout for a message does not exactly amount to "turning the world around"... ] We don't avoid fixing minor issues just because they are old, do we? That's not something I have ever heard proposed before. For all we know, users have been frustrated with this for ages, but no one told us about it until now. That said, the other alternative I proposed was increasing the timeout to 10 seconds to give the user enough time to read it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 25 15:44:47 2021 Received: (at 50775) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2021 19:44:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34831 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUDbL-0004Pc-Lz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:44:47 -0400 Received: from relay9-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.199]:52229) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUDbK-0004PQ-FS for 50775@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:44:46 -0400 Received: (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay9-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7CD19FF802; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 19:44:38 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#50775: ispell help message times out before most people can read it Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <875yuppf0k.fsf@gnus.org> <83fstspjxo.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 22:44:17 +0300 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:38:10 -0700") Message-ID: <87fsts784u.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50775 Cc: 50775@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , larsi@gnus.org, jidanni@jidanni.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > That said, the other alternative I proposed was increasing the timeout > to 10 seconds to give the user enough time to read it. Or type another key to hide it. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 25 15:45:51 2021 Received: (at 50775) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2021 19:45:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34840 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUDcN-0004S5-8x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:45:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49458) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUDcB-0004Rh-6B for 50775@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:45:49 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54084) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUDc5-0002Mu-Oe; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:45:33 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1375 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUDc0-0006Ic-52; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:45:33 -0400 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 22:45:28 +0300 Message-Id: <838rzkphgn.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Juri Linkov In-Reply-To: <877df4bhzr.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Sat, 25 Sep 2021 21:57:44 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#50775: ispell help message times out before most people can read it References: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <83y27mrt1a.fsf@gnu.org> <8735pu84il.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <83tuiarrv9.fsf@gnu.org> <87fstukoca.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o88irm2d.fsf@gnu.org> <877df4bhzr.fsf@mail.linkov.net> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50775 Cc: 50775@debbugs.gnu.org, jidanni@jidanni.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: jidanni@jidanni.org, 50775@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 21:57:44 +0300 > > > That said, I have no problem with the proposed patch, since I don't > > think this message should happen in any reasonable use nowadays. > > I'm seeing these errors with hunspell. Maybe it's possible to configure it > to avoid errors about wrong encodings, I don't know. You mean, your dictionary isn't in UTF-8? Or maybe you have a buggy Hunspell, which counts bytes instead of characters? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Sep 25 15:48:23 2021 Received: (at 50775) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Sep 2021 19:48:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34845 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUDeo-0004Xu-T7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:48:23 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49948) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUDed-0004XW-MR for 50775@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:48:21 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54192) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUDeX-0004SY-AF; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:48:06 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1534 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUDeW-0006YU-T7; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:48:05 -0400 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 22:48:04 +0300 Message-Id: <837df4phcb.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:38:10 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#50775: ispell help message times out before most people can read it References: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <875yuppf0k.fsf@gnus.org> <83fstspjxo.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50775 Cc: 50775@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, jidanni@jidanni.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:38:10 -0700 > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 50775@debbugs.gnu.org, jidanni@jidanni.org > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > We've been having that for eons, so changing the default now should > > only be done if we have a very good reason. You have a customizable > > variable now, so why not change the value for your convenience? > > > > Let's not let the tail wag the dog: it's a minor issue, no need to > > turn the world around each time we add some minor convenience. > > [ Removing a timeout for a message does not exactly amount to "turning > the world around"... ] It does, for those who are accustomed to the message go away. > We don't avoid fixing minor issues just because they are old, do we? We don't. But there's no issue here. > That said, the other alternative I proposed was increasing the timeout > to 10 seconds to give the user enough time to read it. You are free to increase it for your own use. And so is jidanni. But I see no reason to do that for everyone. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 26 02:31:01 2021 Received: (at 50775) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Sep 2021 06:31:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35543 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUNgj-0000jH-P5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 02:31:01 -0400 Received: from quail.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.151]:11431) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUNgh-0000j2-NG for 50775@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 02:31:00 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D1BF20F1C; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 06:30:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a74.g.dreamhost.com (unknown [127.0.0.6]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 34D67210AB; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 06:30:58 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a74.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 100.114.12.82 (trex/6.4.3); Sun, 26 Sep 2021 06:30:58 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Bitter-Reaction: 2f4786104c9afbe5_1632637858350_2053538941 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1632637858350:1172825493 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1632637858350 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a74.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a74.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1DF88074D; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 23:30:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=jidanni.org; bh=8VSnLNcYELpxyRgEpAkGrksSjaI=; b=BcuMrUU6jJ4rl k8z3jZysw3YeOvDyNhebkO2070knXs9EQh2tgtuUwyYM7vB46z402BAP2a9tLYHQ 6Ly5k4rkQMSVVumAVU9fAH5XbHCUxzmYoP9NEA/xPEBBp7b7HgPodEpZ1RTOP9OD wYwkn8iI+Kx9KLTcGlI8Kh8kNjoI3U= Received: from jidanni.org (114-41-39-108.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [114.41.39.108]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a74.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AE72F7F071; Sat, 25 Sep 2021 23:30:56 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a74 From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#50775: ispell help message times out before most people can read it References: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <875yuppf0k.fsf@gnus.org> <83fstspjxo.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 14:30:52 +0800 Message-ID: <87lf3jg86b.8.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50775 Cc: 50775@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Slower thinkers need longer timeouts. Faster thinkers know how to customize defaults. So longer default timeouts win! From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 26 02:59:35 2021 Received: (at 50775) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Sep 2021 06:59:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35606 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUO8N-0003db-15 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 02:59:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34018) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mUO8J-0003dL-Dn for 50775@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 02:59:33 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37444) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUO8D-00066p-P0; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 02:59:25 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2715 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUO8B-00006s-RY; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 02:59:25 -0400 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 09:59:21 +0300 Message-Id: <83r1dbom9i.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson In-Reply-To: <87lf3jg86b.8.fsf@jidanni.org> (message from =?utf-8?B?56mN?= =?utf-8?B?5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson on Sun, 26 Sep 2021 14:30:52 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#50775: ispell help message times out before most people can read it References: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <875yuppf0k.fsf@gnus.org> <83fstspjxo.fsf@gnu.org> <87lf3jg86b.8.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50775 Cc: 50775@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, stefan@marxist.se X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , larsi@gnus.org, 50775@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 14:30:52 +0800 > > Slower thinkers need longer timeouts. > Faster thinkers know how to customize defaults. > So longer default timeouts win! Not if slower thinkers also know how to customize. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 29 07:33:08 2021 Received: (at 50775) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Sep 2021 11:33:08 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47901 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVXpk-00017N-2w for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 07:33:08 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f50.google.com ([209.85.216.50]:40516) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mVXpg-00016k-0V for 50775@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 07:33:06 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f50.google.com with SMTP id d4-20020a17090ad98400b0019ece228690so3969932pjv.5 for <50775@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 04:33:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2x0Q8Chgblogmkw12KvubvSm4HMky0MpzmtvzqFSmtU=; b=qQ7I3BjJWWKk6Ch4EIA5In73/1y7r4zatdl7+H6NbTlzlxZ2PpLXXQL3DI/iHURQvF UO21SYbMPDc5zFwgESEta9Nt+2hCpF8Cha58Pq809BmJlAkvourPeIZtuo1XITMeaz+Z axgKDhtZ5Spj6WZ5ygRq8CPOaIq5vdELAYavMckwZPs/ZuMCm6oZLOM+2RBhZQ+FCEdC 5JziNYoKzd8BIu/79uA1n+SWDPDv/XUqJGTgs8K0qlz20gJNdSZMx2DsyKcFJyLPeNSs vLRc4LP0NhlAMWaf7l74murPCe0ivb1NyUihquycwW95vWxlgJkvM6OS5LUuyI4cyQJL dUuA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5303jLe7TjFPVI/AIZocVUmWVNzvi5fi22wKbUIEfyQxAhDCE4YA 5xOgX9STrebceQZT10UJG9+r7gfG7+CfIVNgrO8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxOcTvnALW+TAPGs0kB1vyxmO2JB5a/2Zyg6LofGiDjdOXWvmoNx857uNUE42tOQSIeRpWi0gOmJHlqKVv+n5s= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:460a:: with SMTP id w10mr5908931pjg.132.1632915178251; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 04:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 04:32:57 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83r1dbom9i.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 26 Sep 2021 09:59:21 +0300") References: <87czoy86c1.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <875yuppf0k.fsf@gnus.org> <83fstspjxo.fsf@gnu.org> <87lf3jg86b.8.fsf@jidanni.org> <83r1dbom9i.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 04:32:57 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#50775: ispell help message times out before most people can read it To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50775 Cc: 50775@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, =?UTF-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8IERhbiBKYWNvYnNvbg==?= X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) tags 50775 fixed close 50775 28.1 thanks Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Slower thinkers need longer timeouts. >> Faster thinkers know how to customize defaults. >> So longer default timeouts win! > > Not if slower thinkers also know how to customize. ;-) I think we are satisfied with the outcome here, and I'm consequently closing this bug. From unknown Sat Sep 20 07:50:35 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2021 11:24:07 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator