From unknown Wed Jun 25 09:11:56 2025 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#5068: 23.1; doc of load-history Reply-To: "Drew Adams" , 5068@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs 2Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:55:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 5068 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.125942688216782 (code B ref -1); Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:55:04 +0000 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 28 Nov 2009 16:48:02 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id nASGm0dL016779 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:48:02 -0800 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NEQSm-0006hd-He for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:48:00 -0500 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NEQSi-0006h7-63 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:48:00 -0500 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=39903 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NEQSi-0006h4-2n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:47:56 -0500 Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com ([141.146.126.233]:54189) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NEQSh-0003tU-Nd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:47:56 -0500 Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id nASGmrGK029839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:48:55 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id nAS9J3rE010194 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:47:53 GMT Received: from abhmt001.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 662573931259426816; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:46:56 -0800 Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.185.59) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:46:56 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:47:23 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: AcpwSnWEV5v2s8jkRY6MDtDMOTgrfw== X-Source-IP: acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4B115434.000F:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) Oddly enough, neither the doc string nor the Elisp manual mentions that `load-history' is in fact a load history. They do not say that what is in the list is a record of what has _already been_ loaded. If you read the doc, there is no way to know that the files listed in the variable's list value have already been loaded. It reads like a declarative statement of the mappings between files and their contents, without any indication that the files listed have in fact been loaded. No, that fact is not obvious. Look at the doc string: "Alist mapping file names to symbols and features." And then it describes the format of the alist. But it doesn't say that each of the files has actually been loaded. The closest it comes is this: "The file name is absolute and is the true file name (i.e. it doesn't contain symbolic links) of the loaded file." This is the closest it comes, because this is the only place where "loaded" is used. But that statement can be read as meaning that this is the name of a file that contains the definitions that follow, if and when this file is ever loaded. The real import of that statement concerns the nature of the file-name entry (absolute, no symlink). Likewise, the Elisp manual: "This variable's value is an alist connecting library file names with the names of functions and variables they define, the features they provide, and the features they require." This is even less correct/complete. It should not be phrased in terms of "features", "provide", and "require". Many of the entries in `load-history' are for files that are not `require'd, and have no features that are `provide'd - buff-menu.elc, for example. Please state explicitly that this variable records the files that have already been loaded (including preloaded), and the functions etc. that were defined when they were loaded. In GNU Emacs 23.1.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2009-07-29 on SOFT-MJASON Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.4)' From unknown Wed Jun 25 09:11:56 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.427 (Entity 5.427) X-Loop: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org (Emacs bug Tracking System) To: "Drew Adams" Subject: bug#5068 closed by Chong Yidong (Re: 23.1; doc of load-history) Message-ID: References: <87fx6pr8ss.fsf@stupidchicken.com> X-Emacs-PR-Message: they-closed 5068 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 5068@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:16:01 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1262369761-28616-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1262369761-28616-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" This is an automatic notification regarding your bug report which was filed against the emacs package: #5068: 23.1; doc of load-history It has been closed by Chong Yidong . Their explanation is attached below along with your original report. If this explanation is unsatisfactory and you have not received a better one in a separate message then please contact Chong Yidong by replying to this email. --=20 5068: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D5068 Emacs Bug Tracking System Contact bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1262369761-28616-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 5068-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jan 2010 18:15:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NQm20-0007RE-4O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2010 13:15:24 -0500 Received: from pantheon-po19.its.yale.edu ([130.132.50.75]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NQm1y-0007R9-AG for 5068-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2010 13:15:22 -0500 Received: from furry (dhcp128036014103.central.yale.edu [128.36.14.103]) (authenticated bits=0) by pantheon-po19.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id o01IFG08005486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 1 Jan 2010 13:15:17 -0500 Received: by furry (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B8D88C05D; Fri, 1 Jan 2010 13:15:15 -0500 (EST) From: Chong Yidong To: "Drew Adams" Subject: Re: 23.1; doc of load-history Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 13:15:15 -0500 Message-ID: <87fx6pr8ss.fsf@stupidchicken.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-YaleITSMailFilter: Version 1.2c (attachment(s) not renamed) X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 5068-done Cc: 5068-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) > Oddly enough, neither the doc string nor the Elisp manual mentions > that `load-history' is in fact a load history. They do not say that > what is in the list is a record of what has _already been_ loaded. Thanks, I've changed the docstring and manual to make this clearer. ------------=_1262369761-28616-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 28 Nov 2009 16:48:02 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,FOURLA autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id nASGm0dL016779 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:48:02 -0800 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NEQSm-0006hd-He for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:48:00 -0500 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NEQSi-0006h7-63 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:48:00 -0500 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=39903 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NEQSi-0006h4-2n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:47:56 -0500 Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com ([141.146.126.233]:54189) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NEQSh-0003tU-Nd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:47:56 -0500 Received: from rgminet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id nASGmrGK029839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:48:55 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by rgminet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id nAS9J3rE010194 for ; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:47:53 GMT Received: from abhmt001.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 662573931259426816; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:46:56 -0800 Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.185.59) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:46:56 -0800 From: "Drew Adams" To: Subject: 23.1; doc of load-history Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:47:23 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: AcpwSnWEV5v2s8jkRY6MDtDMOTgrfw== X-Source-IP: acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4B115434.000F:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) Oddly enough, neither the doc string nor the Elisp manual mentions that `load-history' is in fact a load history. They do not say that what is in the list is a record of what has _already been_ loaded. If you read the doc, there is no way to know that the files listed in the variable's list value have already been loaded. It reads like a declarative statement of the mappings between files and their contents, without any indication that the files listed have in fact been loaded. No, that fact is not obvious. Look at the doc string: "Alist mapping file names to symbols and features." And then it describes the format of the alist. But it doesn't say that each of the files has actually been loaded. The closest it comes is this: "The file name is absolute and is the true file name (i.e. it doesn't contain symbolic links) of the loaded file." This is the closest it comes, because this is the only place where "loaded" is used. But that statement can be read as meaning that this is the name of a file that contains the definitions that follow, if and when this file is ever loaded. The real import of that statement concerns the nature of the file-name entry (absolute, no symlink). Likewise, the Elisp manual: "This variable's value is an alist connecting library file names with the names of functions and variables they define, the features they provide, and the features they require." This is even less correct/complete. It should not be phrased in terms of "features", "provide", and "require". Many of the entries in `load-history' are for files that are not `require'd, and have no features that are `provide'd - buff-menu.elc, for example. Please state explicitly that this variable records the files that have already been loaded (including preloaded), and the functions etc. that were defined when they were loaded. In GNU Emacs 23.1.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2009-07-29 on SOFT-MJASON Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.4)' ------------=_1262369761-28616-1--