From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Sep 06 21:11:27 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2021 01:11:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54856 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mNPe2-0004rj-Qa for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 21:11:27 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:35854) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mNPe1-0004rY-DY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 21:11:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37512) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNPe1-0001gS-8Y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 21:11:25 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f175.google.com ([209.85.210.175]:42544) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNPdy-0002OF-UR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 21:11:24 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f175.google.com with SMTP id 18so6790859pfh.9 for ; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 18:11:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=nDau4402AKHkV8p5xEkhDzQhz/OgQuYpRaGAhxJIGzk=; b=Jx7723AxsNj/+lGOKuh4cDANaJhaLnbZmD/senIp3ZVPKtOR7aqMEE+G9Uy4Amlw9z RieoqA6HDwdxinH1ty+mDY585omRNPkKyG1haGmWg2+Q2P6duRFHFBJ6wL4rV9U/sVdF gSoqAU8bQYqFqwDheL6cy3xdeojPwp1wNQ1dtldcf2gCBGbYMNM+LkAKLzbhu8meUFca Tw10pCr6UdjDbRO0OZzka8vCpnwxAAwwFopuW5uFydvvwJJcuxxLUifY0Pe3DZAz8HNM jH78gX2qB3F6vYLtWrDWEKznBhAWgvD4oajIz70rNkNIIBffIubY9xDVO9blBkmlmbH9 qVQg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533ao2TewFSPkZXR8uer/UiluTikysEcX5Jbkw7iN2wYuHRXhuqp 8qyHJdVKqoXlgsZ1ZLIAZxvEZN7oJky/gZ5V+sNBNs7D4T0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzfn3U0aZWXjYh/cwBd20raDLWnO0mSKpRVwzx7FH/TBkU4w1AH65RZ6aXryDdzxnqleruc/JBFaBQ/eW8aAg0= X-Received: by 2002:a63:7d5d:: with SMTP id m29mr4568833pgn.114.1630977081231; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 18:11:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Kangas Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2021 03:11:10 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Emacs FAQ entry "What is the real legal meaning of the GNU copyleft?" still relevant? To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.210.175; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-f175.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) Severity: wishlist X-Debbugs-CC: rms@gnu.org Is the below entry in the Emacs FAQ still relevant? These days, we have had several copyright infringement case involving the GPL. Could we just delete the entry in the FAQ? 2.1 What is the real legal meaning of the GNU copyleft? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The real legal meaning of the GNU General Public License (copyleft) will only be known if and when a judge rules on its validity and scope. There has never been a copyright infringement case involving the GPL to set any precedents. Although legal actions have been brought against companies for violating the terms of the GPL, so far all have been settled out of court (in favor of the plaintiffs). Please take any discussion regarding this issue to the gnu-misc-discuss mailing list (https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnu-misc-discuss), which was created to hold the extensive flame wars on the subject. RMS writes: The legal meaning of the GNU copyleft is less important than the spirit, which is that Emacs is a free software project and that work pertaining to Emacs should also be free software. =E2=80=9CFree= =E2=80=9D means that all users have the freedom to study, share, change and improve Emacs. To make sure everyone has this freedom, pass along source code when you distribute any version of Emacs or a related program, and give the recipients the same freedom that you enjoyed. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 07 11:26:46 2021 Received: (at 50446) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2021 15:26:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57381 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mNczm-0000fq-4a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 11:26:46 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:48820) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mNczk-0000fc-HS for 50446@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 11:26:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=9OyhMaQWAUh7ih/c0oiWASNPWWIrmHRgLj3/hrIv8sA=; b=IeKPNvE1pYQaXhJfdV2mZALQCR CnxftK7ljhGVt2OoY04sW9CygCprtNhyw+GFnHhAQEf+b5RoBYZ/FWpLLr1UfKu/HtLQ1hGGGML+l 3c2bZ1/qoJvh73QJc/Olr4YjWbb9HAFFs2xcpB4/JKHT5TocylSeLNxute27ssBp4bL0=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mNczc-0007Iu-Cq; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 17:26:38 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#50446: Emacs FAQ entry "What is the real legal meaning of the GNU copyleft?" still relevant? References: Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2021 17:26:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Tue, 7 Sep 2021 03:11:10 +0200") Message-ID: <87a6kocspg.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > Is the below entry in the Emacs FAQ still relevant? These days, we > have had several copyright infringement case involving the GPL. Could > we just delete the entry in the FAQ? Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50446 Cc: 50446@debbugs.gnu.org, rms@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Kangas writes: > Is the below entry in the Emacs FAQ still relevant? These days, we > have had several copyright infringement case involving the GPL. Could > we just delete the entry in the FAQ? Hm... I just skimmed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_license_litigation and I didn't see any judgements on GPL'd software? Just settlements (and judgements on other licenses, like the Artistic License). -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 07 12:20:32 2021 Received: (at 50446) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2021 16:20:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57471 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mNdpb-0006QO-8i for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 12:20:32 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f176.google.com ([209.85.214.176]:43748) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mNdpZ-0006QA-8e for 50446@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 12:20:17 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f176.google.com with SMTP id v1so6131676plo.10 for <50446@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 09:20:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=gWyXfk1J6B4PQOc9Cu+gQKPA2IOjWkvfpGLqaQVZUHc=; b=c+NjcUOAxFBjiWZ/mmLDbmDCEb8aknhwmXskLb3rJPXjtZF4rrBUYd5yZGbCdvzjOd PrVWoFOCd8bkDLYtBp3zvzEIjPr+oBDU1DWRKNJmKSu9mW185/mclNN8gZWGHdoujaEv elMQ7T3CDlCwtTpBcq8e5xGgcpaI7gVxrCAlJilJhdx9snkO1URn1xoG4Q0kNnBrEKxm xQqXzkHQMM/iJ3vCACWerprtUJ0Fn/8k9WtxuDG7iZxy196ili4ZcD1aYmSDXKGdumB3 FCxR/kUbSxeYNtCxPscGSjehvKK1XtEa4F+ZMKYCm3GCHW395rLTQkPps+orz3mOzcPT HrPw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532MJG9KkxjufZr7QHhO/fCwgpwTFEjGC0xsoXzUSckNvHL3L0H+ dJ/YbrvAfHoGLVFWMT5B5gNiPa+WVItLx4ljee4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwWcBm6fpnsKbeQ0AVPmR7MHZ2jUI632XRm/L88bzi3OMFqQnA9Nsz84tH5A841IUkoR9rI+607RpaupVExap8= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:7c42:: with SMTP id e2mr5306802pjl.132.1631031611502; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 09:20:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87a6kocspg.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: <87a6kocspg.fsf@gnus.org> From: Stefan Kangas Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2021 18:20:00 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#50446: Emacs FAQ entry "What is the real legal meaning of the GNU copyleft?" still relevant? To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50446 Cc: 50446@debbugs.gnu.org, Richard Stallman X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > > Is the below entry in the Emacs FAQ still relevant? These days, we > > have had several copyright infringement case involving the GPL. Could > > we just delete the entry in the FAQ? > > Hm... I just skimmed > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_license_litigation > > and I didn't see any judgements on GPL'd software? Just settlements > (and judgements on other licenses, like the Artistic License). Take a look at this list, for example "Welte vs D-Link (2006)": https://wiki.fsfe.org/Migrated/GPL Enforcement Cases IANAL, YMMV, etc. but some of these look like court cases to me? If we are to put anything, I think it's better to have an entry "What is Free Software" or something of the sort, rather than defending whether or not the GPL is even legally valid. I don't think anyone doubts that it is mostly valid these days, do they? It's not a very FAQ in my experience at least, but I might be wrong. Of course, the US legal system is a sick joke so what do I know. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 07 12:23:57 2021 Received: (at 50446) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2021 16:23:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57487 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mNdt0-0006WZ-9z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 12:23:57 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:49310) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mNdsy-0006WL-GN for 50446@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 12:23:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=PlDFT805msaX2G/sRusZtRjV0hG0yMQ9VIz/o7BhwjQ=; b=WWoGglna9L9eBxglPKBGObfFiP ErDXWlmNR0hWFBS5ztgZq5dcAio/Xa3MQd93XjuLMJ4MacxTDCWxUynezTxTs9+nqMXi0D8kWTnm3 bHHK6j6lm8KfSCH6Djhd50DaKqlzcq/lbPPQmwT56O0flAywPBozDWaFCA/8G6ykczQ8=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mNdsp-0007pv-9G; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:23:41 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#50446: Emacs FAQ entry "What is the real legal meaning of the GNU copyleft?" still relevant? References: <87a6kocspg.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:23:38 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Tue, 7 Sep 2021 18:20:00 +0200") Message-ID: <87lf48bbhx.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > Take a look at this list, for example "Welte vs D-Link (2006)": > > https://wiki.fsfe.org/Migrated/GPL Enforcement Cases > > IANAL, YMMV, etc. but some of these look like court cases to me? Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50446 Cc: 50446@debbugs.gnu.org, Richard Stallman X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Kangas writes: > Take a look at this list, for example "Welte vs D-Link (2006)": > > https://wiki.fsfe.org/Migrated/GPL Enforcement Cases > > IANAL, YMMV, etc. but some of these look like court cases to me? Yeah, outside the US there's been cases (a French court recently had a case where they basically said that the GPL couldn't be used the way we want it to be), but I assumed that this section was about the US... since the FSF is a US company. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 07 12:26:37 2021 Received: (at 50446) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Sep 2021 16:26:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57496 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mNdvg-0006bD-PH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 12:26:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43610) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mNdvf-0006aw-Ag for 50446@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 12:26:35 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:56306) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNdvZ-0001Fr-Iu; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 12:26:30 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2714 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNdvT-0000qU-DP; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 12:26:23 -0400 Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2021 19:26:33 +0300 Message-Id: <831r60pd1i.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87lf48bbhx.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:23:38 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#50446: Emacs FAQ entry "What is the real legal meaning of the GNU copyleft?" still relevant? References: <87a6kocspg.fsf@gnus.org> <87lf48bbhx.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50446 Cc: 50446@debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se, rms@gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2021 18:23:38 +0200 > Cc: 50446@debbugs.gnu.org, Richard Stallman > > Stefan Kangas writes: > > > Take a look at this list, for example "Welte vs D-Link (2006)": > > > > https://wiki.fsfe.org/Migrated/GPL Enforcement Cases > > > > IANAL, YMMV, etc. but some of these look like court cases to me? > > Yeah, outside the US there's been cases (a French court recently had a > case where they basically said that the GPL couldn't be used the way we > want it to be), but I assumed that this section was about the US... > since the FSF is a US company. I suggest to wait for Richard to chime in, we none of us are lawyers here. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Sep 07 23:27:19 2021 Received: (at 50446) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Sep 2021 03:27:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58142 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mNoF5-00051z-5Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 23:27:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37516) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mNoF2-00051k-UV for 50446@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 23:27:17 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:48812) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNoEx-0005JA-Ks; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 23:27:11 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNoEx-000859-HJ; Tue, 07 Sep 2021 23:27:11 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 7 Sep 2021 03:11:10 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#50446: Emacs FAQ entry "What is the real legal meaning of the GNU copyleft?" still relevant? References: Message-Id: Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2021 23:27:11 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50446 Cc: 50446@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] I will talk with FSF people about what to do with this. Thanks for pointing it out. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 08 23:07:36 2021 Received: (at 50446) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Sep 2021 03:07:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33833 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mOAPV-0004L1-2q for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 23:07:36 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50958) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mOAPQ-0004Kh-I3 for 50446@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 23:07:31 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:42826) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mOAPL-0007eY-3p; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 23:07:23 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mOAPK-0003gp-VM; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 23:07:22 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87a6kocspg.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Tue, 07 Sep 2021 17:26:35 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#50446: Emacs FAQ entry "What is the real legal meaning of the GNU copyleft?" still relevant? References: <87a6kocspg.fsf@gnus.org> Message-Id: Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2021 23:07:22 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50446 Cc: 50446@debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Is the below entry in the Emacs FAQ still relevant? These days, we > > have had several copyright infringement case involving the GPL. Could > > we just delete the entry in the FAQ? > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_license_litigation > and I didn't see any judgements on GPL'd software? Just settlements > (and judgements on other licenses, like the Artistic License). It may not be "obsolete" but it should be replaced to refer people to what we publish about the GPL in https://gnu.org/licenses/. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 09 09:20:37 2021 Received: (at 50446) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Sep 2021 13:20:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34439 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mOJyn-0007oE-Ca for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 09:20:37 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:42972) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mOJyk-0007nu-Sl for 50446@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 09:20:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=yuAnKZIUo2IUu+Kl3/QeDTMplYm7u9rvsaGyb1mfPCA=; b=O55GqP6Sgb11YSTdTJB6QeVogC 9mixVVGqKTMHApnLyqdsIIhO4fNRTgh2A6df6jKkomSjJSsC/h7Y920nTLOIQmIOPuU/X8HgjLIMh yaL8m8rod+SU7zQnaGeG35sN34RWkmFwWEjmQ0hoyY+T9RwEDVSJRoq24fVnC6Kq4ChY=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mOJyc-0007FU-J6; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 15:20:29 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Richard Stallman Subject: Re: bug#50446: Emacs FAQ entry "What is the real legal meaning of the GNU copyleft?" still relevant? References: <87a6kocspg.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2021 15:20:26 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Wed, 08 Sep 2021 23:07:22 -0400") Message-ID: <87zgslvqat.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Richard Stallman writes: > It may not be "obsolete" but it should be replaced to refer people to > what we publish about the GPL in https://gnu.org/licenses/. OK; I've now removed the node from efaq and linked to that URL instead. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50446 Cc: 50446@debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Richard Stallman writes: > It may not be "obsolete" but it should be replaced to refer people to > what we publish about the GPL in https://gnu.org/licenses/. OK; I've now removed the node from efaq and linked to that URL instead. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 09 09:20:45 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Sep 2021 13:20:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34442 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mOJyv-0007ob-Jx for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 09:20:45 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:42988) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mOJys-0007oL-V5 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 09:20:44 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=llgDkQhQseB111u68YIyn36V0YLi/feMbJH6qjB0S8A=; b=OEAeDojeqUiAQA47RcMe+P+Gwf 8w2hzqYVzCRoCSuCQj/v17OpZo/hiEdVMT/Zthjt2yKUUINbM4WVeraIIgX4RtH+KMUS0cxwec040 rP6uLfw2NeYMCG8RHtrkdeaZhtQzIdlkSzOygSbGvRM2RjyWJCYueg5Bu/UufOLm3uSM=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mOJyl-0007Fb-F7 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 15:20:37 +0200 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2021 15:20:35 +0200 Message-Id: <87y285vqak.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #50446 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: close 50446 28.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) close 50446 28.1 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Sep 09 23:41:30 2021 Received: (at 50446) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Sep 2021 03:41:31 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36596 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mOXPu-0005QK-Mt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 23:41:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38652) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mOXPs-0005Q7-Ob for 50446@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 23:41:29 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:58274) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mOXPn-0002Yf-C7; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 23:41:23 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mOXPm-0005qs-BQ; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 23:41:22 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87zgslvqat.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Thu, 09 Sep 2021 15:20:26 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#50446: Emacs FAQ entry "What is the real legal meaning of the GNU copyleft?" still relevant? References: <87a6kocspg.fsf@gnus.org> <87zgslvqat.fsf@gnus.org> Message-Id: Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2021 23:41:22 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50446 Cc: 50446@debbugs.gnu.org, stefan@marxist.se X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > It may not be "obsolete" but it should be replaced to refer people to > > what we publish about the GPL in https://gnu.org/licenses/. > OK; I've now removed the node from efaq and linked to that URL instead. Thanks. Would you please show me what that item says now? Where can I find the source code of this? What repo, what file? -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Sep 10 02:44:20 2021 Received: (at 50446) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Sep 2021 06:44:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36725 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mOaGi-0001ij-Mw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 02:44:20 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f173.google.com ([209.85.214.173]:43970) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mOaGh-0001iU-9e for 50446@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 02:44:11 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f173.google.com with SMTP id v1so519049plo.10 for <50446@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 23:44:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4Z9hO1uFvxbd9mKwnUOQ/2kaExfnYMfaUyiNGRrUo8I=; b=W33CMDiLE8Fz1+qqi9wdWVDSnf4X71KvzhYJA9CErd494b7SdEpJTIJBmj87Svq4jZ 2jS6MZozuQ33pic0LPs5fwpF7dcLBSXkYzinl2ILUEQ2cWXxf42BrfeurpoVK84ubJIn +q1U8zx/8OIBpTrg5bcs1AcZeUg+1fXl12nH657K922U8pUfwZFssnHB2Imx9gQTZLuv mQTFaL410/lBeTfNB5m31+FeZ80BAmO++yROR00z5/g0YnjZon6+uTaQ//GOpJE0kcMY cVGH98pf08fXY8YFCT+9YOFgWZ+f+Fe5fvZU+CCmMGEwiSPCrZrnGttZioBf+SiDUHf4 EpMw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530MpEmTRoJRTfk0kmysSQI8y8x/R++N+P3b4iZp+JFKAn86PM9u B621qw56fmtTTsQzlmVcrWexTB9OdvDO9c0kFKk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyZOpTwY75LyqgCEDChQ6FE3nQvlyN1t708FJ/pvZGrfBPUl0ebJfbkT9BSrkEiihw4DfGLRMo+v9ZJIO2xIZU= X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:185:b0:13a:7ef0:8f43 with SMTP id z5-20020a170903018500b0013a7ef08f43mr3615764plg.32.1631256245441; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 23:44:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87a6kocspg.fsf@gnus.org> <87zgslvqat.fsf@gnus.org> In-Reply-To: From: Stefan Kangas Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 08:43:54 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#50446: Emacs FAQ entry "What is the real legal meaning of the GNU copyleft?" still relevant? To: Richard Stallman Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50446 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 50446@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Richard Stallman writes: > Thanks. Would you please show me what that item says now? > > Where can I find the source code of this? What repo, what file? commit 8da1f03151f6b98d349fa8eb169514fd1f4bbe02 Author: Lars Ingebrigtsen Date: Thu Sep 9 15:19:56 2021 +0200 Remove the "Real meaning of copyleft" node in efaq * doc/misc/efaq.texi (Real meaning of copyleft): Remove the section (bug#50446). (Common acronyms): Add a link to the GNU site's page about licenses. diff --git a/doc/misc/efaq.texi b/doc/misc/efaq.texi index 9b8fc86508..d5d1eb5e65 100644 --- a/doc/misc/efaq.texi +++ b/doc/misc/efaq.texi @@ -294,6 +294,9 @@ Common acronyms @item GPL GNU General Public License +See @uref{https://gnu.org/licenses/, the GNU web site} for more +information about the GPL. + @end table The word ``free'' in the title of the Free Software Foundation refers to @@ -312,7 +315,6 @@ General questions Free Software Foundation, and related organizations. @menu -* Real meaning of copyleft:: * Guidelines for mailing list postings:: * Mailing list archives:: * Reporting bugs:: @@ -320,36 +322,6 @@ General questions * Contacting the FSF:: @end menu -@node Real meaning of copyleft -@section What is the real legal meaning of the GNU copyleft? -@cindex Copyleft, real meaning of -@cindex GPL, real meaning of -@cindex General Public License, real meaning of -@cindex Discussion of the GPL - -The real legal meaning of the GNU General Public License (copyleft) will -only be known if and when a judge rules on its validity and scope. -There has never been a copyright infringement case involving the GPL to -set any precedents. Although legal actions have been brought against -companies for violating the terms of the GPL, so far all have been -settled out of court (in favor of the plaintiffs). Please take any -discussion regarding this issue to -@uref{https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnu-misc-discuss, the -gnu-misc-discuss mailing list}, which was created to hold the -extensive flame wars on the subject. - -RMS writes: - -@quotation -The legal meaning of the GNU copyleft is less important than the spirit, -which is that Emacs is a free software project and that work pertaining -to Emacs should also be free software. ``Free'' means that all users -have the freedom to study, share, change and improve Emacs. To make -sure everyone has this freedom, pass along source code when you -distribute any version of Emacs or a related program, and give the -recipients the same freedom that you enjoyed. -@end quotation - @node Guidelines for mailing list postings @section What are appropriate messages for the various Emacs mailing lists? @cindex Mailing lists, appropriate messages for From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Sep 12 21:17:53 2021 Received: (at 50446) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Sep 2021 01:17:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43730 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mPabZ-0003Fo-2c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Sep 2021 21:17:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57336) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mPabX-0003FS-4T for 50446@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 12 Sep 2021 21:17:51 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46264) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mPabR-0004sG-Qz; Sun, 12 Sep 2021 21:17:45 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mPabR-0003Yg-Gx; Sun, 12 Sep 2021 21:17:45 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Fri, 10 Sep 2021 08:43:54 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#50446: Emacs FAQ entry "What is the real legal meaning of the GNU copyleft?" still relevant? References: <87a6kocspg.fsf@gnus.org> <87zgslvqat.fsf@gnus.org> Message-Id: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2021 21:17:45 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 50446 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 50446@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: rms@gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] Thanks. That change is just right. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) From unknown Sat Aug 16 18:43:29 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 11:24:08 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator