From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:58:31 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#50103: Pulseaudio doesn't export XDG_CONFIG_DIRS Resent-From: John Kehayias Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 05:08:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 50103 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 50103@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-To: "bug-guix@gnu.org" Reply-To: John Kehayias Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.162926325030953 (code B ref -1); Wed, 18 Aug 2021 05:08:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2021 05:07:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54571 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGDnW-00083A-Kn for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 01:07:30 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:36834) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGDnS-000830-8O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 01:07:28 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:32832) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mGDnR-0003wq-OV for bug-guix@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 01:07:25 -0400 Received: from mail2.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.22]:38847) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mGDnN-0003MP-6I for bug-guix@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 01:07:25 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 05:07:11 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail; t=1629263235; bh=+ZEuEw1wuZz7QAuhsKrbJd+QRFtmYlpBYsUr9pHBmLY=; h=Date:To:From:Reply-To:Subject:From; b=P3W7JBrQJrz6+oBZ7mMw3y11osAfsw5DO+pUPOZ4ZKYYAb0P7Zj5rvUKKCd3LmQlq noOxM6LyZw2XffkGEaHvjAnq3CsvFLgMh7Hjh/kU+mK0qfnNq56D/zycEAMoYzwTjM gHe9zSn3Ykw+iMeo4TanLR3TZzPeGDQNxeySdt24= From: John Kehayias Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.40.22; envelope-from=john.kehayias@protonmail.com; helo=mail2.protonmail.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Hello, A minor bug: I think Pulseaudio should have XDG_CONFIG_DIRS as an exported = search path, as it includes a desktop file in /etc/xdg/autostart. This woul= d be used by e.g. starting just a window manager and using something like d= ex to run autostart programs. Of course there are other ways to do this, bu= t especially if pulseaudio is not in the default user or system profile the= n XDG_CONFIG_DIRS will not include pulseaudio. Are there any downsides to including XDG_CONFIG_DIRS in the pulseaudio pack= age? I haven't run across any other packages falling into this case as well= , but I wouldn't be surprised for anything that supplies an autostart .desk= top file. Thanks, John From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:58:31 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#50103: Pulseaudio doesn't export XDG_CONFIG_DIRS References: Resent-From: Leo Prikler Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 08:04:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 50103 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: john.kehayias@protonmail.com, 50103@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 50103-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B50103.162927382316480 (code B ref 50103); Wed, 18 Aug 2021 08:04:01 +0000 Received: (at 50103) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2021 08:03:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54763 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGGY3-0004Hk-7g for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 04:03:43 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.tugraz.at ([129.27.2.202]:48390) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGGY1-0004HX-7j for 50103@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 04:03:42 -0400 Received: from [10.0.0.4] (62-47-226-13.adsl.highway.telekom.at [62.47.226.13]) by mailrelay.tugraz.at (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4GqL4n5YbGz3wGC; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 10:03:37 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tugraz.at; s=mailrelay; t=1629273817; bh=r9St5wv4aJJnnWewTFH064YIcgUEcI9nbatdtJzmZJQ=; h=Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To; b=XnZ9UD5i4QA/QVI6rY4rjIbSujlclrnoiEMWX3B4XljEPvA9nRaf/1cuiDHycTXSq zhBl7C8NxedTetfy3JIze1/H1WurXXjYfuodjup44Yy+bBpBLzywyrKA7DyICtd0w6 kx9DiOkPmGHthcab0XF/VQbfoJ/5mTfLkckIaS0g= Message-ID: <8260714867d007d924c151a18ff9c63950ab2fcd.camel@student.tugraz.at> From: Leo Prikler Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 10:03:11 +0200 In-Reply-To: Ig1CmnDWZxp9-8tg_AUMkgZynscov550LW1-p_7XSdL7KNY544iKtaoeMT6DPsjX61ssrH43r_qs21U3W6HlaRmakTbDAy3uW2sho6U0R70=@protonmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-TUG-Backscatter-control: bt4lQm5Tva3SBgCuw0EnZw X-Spam-Scanner: SpamAssassin 3.003001 X-Spam-Score-relay: -1.9 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.74 on 129.27.10.117 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi John, a lot of packages would do much better if they exported XDG_CONFIG_DIRS. However, there is currently no way of doing so other than copypasting the same snippet over and over and over and over. A workaround -- if you need this in an environment -- is to also include a package, that already has a search path on XDG_CONFIG_DIRS, like glib (I think glib:bin works too). I recently tried exporting XDG_CONFIG_DIRS as a variable from one module, so that it can be referenced in others, but that led to a weird recursive errors. It would be nice to find a good way of doing that, though. Regards From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:58:31 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#50103: Pulseaudio doesn't export XDG_CONFIG_DIRS Resent-From: Maxime Devos Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 09:29:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 50103 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Leo Prikler , john.kehayias@protonmail.com, 50103@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 50103-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B50103.162927892425473 (code B ref 50103); Wed, 18 Aug 2021 09:29:01 +0000 Received: (at 50103) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2021 09:28:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54889 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGHsK-0006cm-EY for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 05:28:44 -0400 Received: from michel.telenet-ops.be ([195.130.137.88]:43686) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGHsH-0006ca-Sj for 50103@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 05:28:43 -0400 Received: from ptr-bvsjgyjmffd7q9timvx.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be ([IPv6:2a02:1811:8c09:9d00:aaf1:9810:a0b8:a55d]) by michel.telenet-ops.be with bizsmtp id ixUf2500j0mfAB406xUfR8; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 11:28:40 +0200 Message-ID: <04f0f93cb3dd7fa70d940f200b00432eaf9004e9.camel@telenet.be> From: Maxime Devos Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 11:28:32 +0200 In-Reply-To: <8260714867d007d924c151a18ff9c63950ab2fcd.camel@student.tugraz.at> References: <8260714867d007d924c151a18ff9c63950ab2fcd.camel@student.tugraz.at> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-BPjPxO64oK/SNHExnzBO" User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telenet.be; s=r21; t=1629278920; bh=b0jyv2N29PXCHyn1EX7Trcrk756h85R7IWkJz9hoiXA=; h=Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=DohYvC4dXC1SmaNxYgpt2iSkKodMhCqcJGf9sNDN56d3lJo16vh+1wIQiDgCE1Kn7 lv/YIZRcgsbIcrslWQepqY9TEhAp09lQ8kQWJUp1T7WkRG7YGKgfd5Fa6wNZ3pQOd/ 3Se8JJGP/+lG4NR8GKd3pmYN9m+tOEMZxZN3XlyX4HKg89giNYCiqR0iT+4V18ZCGG bx9aMUtyQNKtNkzF4zZQdoOiGXhDxlsgLZzYAEIkQRg4n2KQXvrCZD4PzzeFefOeSW 9DftsQlXgG1DNBc6SUhI61BlV+pdfKTlyKJsX+GWVcpr1loj+6NY3lQbVIUqI5nE0N cQfwkWPQMeNxQ== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) --=-BPjPxO64oK/SNHExnzBO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Leo Prikler schreef op wo 18-08-2021 om 10:03 [+0200]: > Hi John, >=20 > a lot of packages would do much better if they exported > XDG_CONFIG_DIRS. However, there is currently no way of doing so other > than copypasting the same snippet over and over and over and over. A > workaround -- if you need this in an environment -- is to also include > a package, that already has a search path on XDG_CONFIG_DIRS, like glib > (I think glib:bin works too). >=20 > I recently tried exporting XDG_CONFIG_DIRS as a variable from one > module, so that it can be referenced in others, but that led to a weird > recursive errors. It would be nice to find a good way of doing that, > though. What do you think of defining the $XDG_CONFIG_DIR in (guix search-paths) itself, next to $PATH? That seems unlikely to lead to recursive errors. Alternatively, I would guess that making 'search-paths' and 'native-search-paths' a =E2=80=98thunked=E2=80=99 field would resolve the e= rrors, at cost of making objects use a bit more memory. Greetings, Maxime. --=-BPjPxO64oK/SNHExnzBO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iI0EABYKADUWIQTB8z7iDFKP233XAR9J4+4iGRcl7gUCYRzSwBccbWF4aW1lZGV2 b3NAdGVsZW5ldC5iZQAKCRBJ4+4iGRcl7keAAP0UnKFGWpWJm+WCr//e5k/KLdib L1aUeSJ+SiDfjaggbgD9F8CmsCszzWrgxNbSHmRmsw1ROgKaHKne6AcJ1Q8zQws= =G6U7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-BPjPxO64oK/SNHExnzBO-- From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:58:31 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#50103: Pulseaudio doesn't export XDG_CONFIG_DIRS Resent-From: Leo Prikler Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 09:47:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 50103 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Maxime Devos , john.kehayias@protonmail.com, 50103@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 50103-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B50103.162927997027369 (code B ref 50103); Wed, 18 Aug 2021 09:47:01 +0000 Received: (at 50103) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2021 09:46:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54906 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGI98-00077K-Kb for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 05:46:10 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.tugraz.at ([129.27.2.202]:13383) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGI93-00076j-63 for 50103@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 05:46:05 -0400 Received: from [10.0.0.4] (62-47-226-13.adsl.highway.telekom.at [62.47.226.13]) by mailrelay.tugraz.at (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4GqNLt2drKz3x9h; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 11:45:58 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tugraz.at; s=mailrelay; t=1629279958; bh=x8wVMg8MyDxfGoT6ppr/aBvWjHP/g/jnx/Gx1Y7OjGU=; h=Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=tGQ89qnRLqIFuBzTihTBlrjjaQS9VRcm+y6ew7Fe5IyJdVwHcuutzVKxu+FCBfENt 5mmi/pcf55/rM7VyXyByVhGheV4r7pnaa1iY1aE/7LipfbEtDPZ3OYn8zmBwR9EFnl pLQ3pgU7RJW/ygNMNEgm4KIdTA/VgIF5Df+X8KX4= Message-ID: <459e9a0866a72bd3bf792d347e249f854e5654e1.camel@student.tugraz.at> From: Leo Prikler Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 11:45:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: <04f0f93cb3dd7fa70d940f200b00432eaf9004e9.camel@telenet.be> References: <8260714867d007d924c151a18ff9c63950ab2fcd.camel@student.tugraz.at> <04f0f93cb3dd7fa70d940f200b00432eaf9004e9.camel@telenet.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-TUG-Backscatter-control: bt4lQm5Tva3SBgCuw0EnZw X-Spam-Scanner: SpamAssassin 3.003001 X-Spam-Score-relay: -1.9 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.74 on 129.27.10.116 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi, Am Mittwoch, den 18.08.2021, 11:28 +0200 schrieb Maxime Devos: > Leo Prikler schreef op wo 18-08-2021 om 10:03 [+0200]: > > Hi John, > > > > a lot of packages would do much better if they exported > > XDG_CONFIG_DIRS. However, there is currently no way of doing so > > other > > than copypasting the same snippet over and over and over and > > over. A > > workaround -- if you need this in an environment -- is to also > > include > > a package, that already has a search path on XDG_CONFIG_DIRS, like > > glib > > (I think glib:bin works too). > > > > I recently tried exporting XDG_CONFIG_DIRS as a variable from one > > module, so that it can be referenced in others, but that led to a > > weird > > recursive errors. It would be nice to find a good way of doing > > that, > > though. > > What do you think of defining the > $XDG_CONFIG_DIR in (guix search-paths) itself, next to $PATH? That > seems > unlikely to lead to recursive errors. > > Alternatively, I would guess that making 'search-paths' and > 'native-search-paths' a ‘thunked’ field would resolve the errors, > at cost of making objects use a bit more memory. Both sound like interesting proposals. Obviously, adding $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS to (guix search-paths) would work in the short term, but I think defining all interesting environment variables there is probably not the best solution for the future. There's a few variables that are used widely FSVO widely, but using them also implies having some package as input, e.g. the cURL-related ones. XDG_CONFIG_DIRS technically also falls in there, because you will have either xorg or xdisorg imported. Therefore, I think I'd prefer a solution where variables can be exported (and re-exported) from any module in the (gnu packages) subtree. Regards From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:58:31 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#50103: Pulseaudio doesn't export XDG_CONFIG_DIRS Resent-From: John Kehayias Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 14:29:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 50103 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Leo Prikler Cc: 50103@debbugs.gnu.org, Maxime Devos Reply-To: John Kehayias Received: via spool by 50103-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B50103.16292968829148 (code B ref 50103); Wed, 18 Aug 2021 14:29:02 +0000 Received: (at 50103) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2021 14:28:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57177 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGMXu-0002NJ-8Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 10:28:02 -0400 Received: from mail-40134.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.134]:50497) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGMXp-0002N2-Ey for 50103@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 10:27:57 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 14:27:45 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail; t=1629296866; bh=TRPqWwyUsLDL/H7cOG/HE+dgotudI87D1/oDawB7p2g=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=OXSz1NQ/x/XCT00+0wrjYzw69PMWgQytK3XCiQL/stxlWCk4NvnkJpbjGPXzhAcZz 9YTGvVJoh5Jp8LfkITMzr42h/9E3VoMOJ7wQcHVFRWKsLuEqhi+ptef4WEs1hIVhDi MOooGZ7pfEoLeNYZve6p8FMKk/4reZFO4AQX//jg= From: John Kehayias Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <459e9a0866a72bd3bf792d347e249f854e5654e1.camel@student.tugraz.at> References: <8260714867d007d924c151a18ff9c63950ab2fcd.camel@student.tugraz.at> <04f0f93cb3dd7fa70d940f200b00432eaf9004e9.camel@telenet.be> <459e9a0866a72bd3bf792d347e249f854e5654e1.camel@student.tugraz.at> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Leo and Maxime, Thanks for discussing this. A few questions/clarifications (perhaps mostly = because I'm still new here) below. I'm not familiar enough with the interna= ls of guix search-paths, so my perspective is mostly from the end-user stan= dpoint. =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Me= ssage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Wednesday, August 18th, 2021 at 5:45 AM, Leo Prikler wrote: > Hi, > > Am Mittwoch, den 18.08.2021, 11:28 +0200 schrieb Maxime Devos: > > > Leo Prikler schreef op wo 18-08-2021 om 10:03 [+0200]: > > > > > Hi John, > > > > > > a lot of packages would do much better if they exported > > > > > > XDG_CONFIG_DIRS. However, there is currently no way of doing so > > > > > > other > > > > > > than copypasting the same snippet over and over and over and > > > > > > over. A > > > > > > workaround -- if you need this in an environment -- is to also > > > > > > include > > > > > > a package, that already has a search path on XDG_CONFIG_DIRS, like > > > > > > glib > > > > > > (I think glib:bin works too). > > > I'm slightly confused here: I only see XDG_DATA_DIRS in the glib package. I= include glib to get that export actually (I have everything in profiles, n= othing in the default user). Autostart files are in $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS/autost= art. XDG_DATA_DIRS seems to come up the most and more needed it seems to me= (based on what I have there in a desktop environment). > > > I recently tried exporting XDG_CONFIG_DIRS as a variable from one > > > > > > module, so that it can be referenced in others, but that led to a > > > > > > weird > > > > > > recursive errors. It would be nice to find a good way of doing > > > > > > that, > > > > > > though. > > > > What do you think of defining the > > > > $XDG_CONFIG_DIR in (guix search-paths) itself, next to $PATH? That > > > > seems > > > > unlikely to lead to recursive errors. > > > > Alternatively, I would guess that making 'search-paths' and > > > > 'native-search-paths' a =E2=80=98thunked=E2=80=99 field would resolve t= he errors, > > > > at cost of making objects use a bit more memory. > > Both sound like interesting proposals. Obviously, adding > > $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS to (guix search-paths) would work in the short term, > > but I think defining all interesting environment variables there is > > probably not the best solution for the future. There's a few variables > > that are used widely FSVO widely, but using them also implies having > > some package as input, e.g. the cURL-related ones. XDG_CONFIG_DIRS > > technically also falls in there, because you will have either xorg or > > xdisorg imported. Therefore, I think I'd prefer a solution where > > variables can be exported (and re-exported) from any module in the (gnu > > packages) subtree. > Is the case here that glib should have XDG_CONFIG_DIRS in it? Or does that = only make sense in some other package that could then be included in a prof= ile to get XDG_CONFIG_DIRS, similar to XDG_DATA_DIRS now? I didn't see many references to XDG_CONFIG_DIRS in our current packages, mo= stly in some Lisp compilers and a few other random places. Slightly surpris= ed it is not in more, but maybe packages that would normally put something = in /etc/xdg (default for XDG_CONFIG_DIRS) have been configured otherwise. I feel like my setup, from the cookbook, of having everything in profiles w= ith the default user one being empty other than testing, has exposed a few = related issues. What we are discussing might also have relevance to dbus fi= les (see #48538), and perhaps to an older issue about paths and /etc/profil= e (#20255). (Not to bring up an old issue, but it was one that came up when= searching for related issues in the past, which I skimmed.) John From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:58:31 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#50103: Pulseaudio doesn't export XDG_CONFIG_DIRS Resent-From: Leo Prikler Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 15:20:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 50103 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: John Kehayias Cc: 50103@debbugs.gnu.org, Maxime Devos Received: via spool by 50103-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B50103.162930000031317 (code B ref 50103); Wed, 18 Aug 2021 15:20:02 +0000 Received: (at 50103) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2021 15:20:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57273 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGNMG-000892-7C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 11:20:00 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.tugraz.at ([129.27.2.202]:45887) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGNMD-00088p-4W for 50103@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 11:19:59 -0400 Received: from nijino.local (62-47-226-13.adsl.highway.telekom.at [62.47.226.13]) by mailrelay.tugraz.at (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4GqWm64Zzcz1LWpg; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 17:19:50 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 mailrelay.tugraz.at 4GqWm64Zzcz1LWpg DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tugraz.at; s=mailrelay; t=1629299990; bh=hGU7t1Ra3uPIq/WPieHkstz+womVFpRghDas6A4RX+Q=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=s1bDFT2RuU4PZleJsJsEpMX8ChyjeBUDvpSB1Rr7vcBy18y+L9Fh5WenQOsmvIR5p TLtq+tTXetHFi7IvVK495Obe2T90FwP+rgDYfNcnNSVxQcIU+NEQ9UDty4ka4MU+yp llyhl9Jv9EEyJ2pQsr1n1ZulhRkhBHDP3s+WW00A= Message-ID: From: Leo Prikler Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 17:19:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <8260714867d007d924c151a18ff9c63950ab2fcd.camel@student.tugraz.at> <04f0f93cb3dd7fa70d940f200b00432eaf9004e9.camel@telenet.be> <459e9a0866a72bd3bf792d347e249f854e5654e1.camel@student.tugraz.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-TUG-Backscatter-control: bt4lQm5Tva3SBgCuw0EnZw X-Spam-Scanner: SpamAssassin 3.003001 X-Spam-Score-relay: -1.9 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.74 on 129.27.10.116 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi John, Am Mittwoch, den 18.08.2021, 14:27 +0000 schrieb John Kehayias: > Hi Leo and Maxime, > > Thanks for discussing this. A few questions/clarifications (perhaps > mostly because I'm still new here) below. I'm not familiar enough > with the internals of guix search-paths, so my perspective is mostly > from the end-user standpoint. > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ > > On Wednesday, August 18th, 2021 at 5:45 AM, Leo Prikler wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Am Mittwoch, den 18.08.2021, 11:28 +0200 schrieb Maxime Devos: > > > > > Leo Prikler schreef op wo 18-08-2021 om 10:03 [+0200]: > > > > > > > Hi John, > > > > > > > > a lot of packages would do much better if they exported > > > > > > > > XDG_CONFIG_DIRS. However, there is currently no way of doing so > > > > other than copypasting the same snippet over and over and over > > > > and over. A workaround -- if you need this in an environment -- > > > > is to also include a package, that already has a search path on > > > > XDG_CONFIG_DIRS, like glib (I think glib:bin works too). > > > > > > I'm slightly confused here: I only see XDG_DATA_DIRS in the glib > package. I include glib to get that export actually (I have > everything in profiles, nothing in the default user). Autostart files > are in $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS/autostart. XDG_DATA_DIRS seems to come up the > most and more needed it seems to me (based on what I have there in a > desktop environment). Haha, my bad, yeah glib only provides XDG_DATA_DIRS. In that case I'm not sure which one would be the canonical workaround package. > > > > I recently tried exporting XDG_CONFIG_DIRS as a variable from > > > > one module, so that it can be referenced in others, but that > > > > led to a weird recursive errors. It would be nice to find a > > > > good way of doing that, though. > > > > > > What do you think of defining the > > > > > > $XDG_CONFIG_DIR in (guix search-paths) itself, next to $PATH? > > > That seems unlikely to lead to recursive errors. Alternatively, I > > > would guess that making 'search-paths' and 'native-search-paths' > > > a ‘thunked’ field would resolve the errors, at cost of making > > > objects use a bit more memory. > > Both sound like interesting proposals. Obviously, adding > > $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS to (guix search-paths) would work in the short > > term, but I think defining all interesting environment variables > > there is probably not the best solution for the future. There's a > > few variables that are used widely FSVO widely, but using them also > > implies having some package as input, e.g. the cURL-related ones. > > XDG_CONFIG_DIRS technically also falls in there, because you will > > have either xorg or xdisorg imported. Therefore, I think I'd prefer > > a solution where variables can be exported (and re-exported) from > > any module in the (gnu packages) subtree. > > Is the case here that glib should have XDG_CONFIG_DIRS in it? Or does > that only make sense in some other package that could then be > included in a profile to get XDG_CONFIG_DIRS, similar to > XDG_DATA_DIRS now? I'm not sure about that myself but the answer is probably no. > I didn't see many references to XDG_CONFIG_DIRS in our current > packages, mostly in some Lisp compilers and a few other random > places. Slightly surprised it is not in more, but maybe packages that > would normally put something in /etc/xdg (default for > XDG_CONFIG_DIRS) have been configured otherwise. I think the likelier explanation is that XDG_CONFIG_DIRS is possibly underused when compared to XDG_DATA_DIRS. Most packages store their configuration -- if any -- in /etc/foo rather than /etc/xdg/foo. I'm pretty certain that using /etc/xdg rather than /etc was an error on XDG's part as XDG_CONFIG_HOME, which defaults to ~/.config makes much more sense from an application writer's POV. > I feel like my setup, from the cookbook, of having everything in > profiles with the default user one being empty other than testing, > has exposed a few related issues. What we are discussing might also > have relevance to dbus files (see #48538), and perhaps to an older > issue about paths and /etc/profile (#20255). (Not to bring up an old > issue, but it was one that came up when searching for related issues > in the past, which I skimmed.) You are indeed right, multiple profiles are very badly supported by Guix. Needing to jump through the hoops described in the cookbook in the first place is in my eyes a clear enough indicator to support my point. Back in December of 2019, I wrote a proposal that would make it possible to add user profiles next to the default profile [1]. It had a few problems mostly related to underspecification and in the end went nowhere. Earlier this year, around Guix Days, I thought I should perhaps revive it, but for personal reasons didn't, instead procrastinating. The only thing I now remember from back then was that there was a certain push from fellow proponents to just use $XDG_DATA_HOME/guix as this directory, but I'm still concerned whether that is the correct approach (particularly since /etc/profile might not know about the actual value of XDG_DATA_HOME in time). I think that in order to truly make profiles splits work, we would either have to make use of Guix at the lowest level, so as to merge Emacs in one profile with a bunch of emacs-foo packages in another or make search paths first-class citizens of profiles to allow for amendments on top of what is already given by packages. WDYT? [1] https://yhetil.org/guix-devel/eabe0cccdb377b1c573df88715d6aebf7bf7f80c.camel@student.tugraz.at/ From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:58:31 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#50103: Pulseaudio doesn't export XDG_CONFIG_DIRS Resent-From: John Kehayias Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 16:07:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 50103 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Leo Prikler Cc: 50103@debbugs.gnu.org, Maxime Devos Reply-To: John Kehayias Received: via spool by 50103-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B50103.16293028214287 (code B ref 50103); Wed, 18 Aug 2021 16:07:02 +0000 Received: (at 50103) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2021 16:07:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57374 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGO5k-000175-Er for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 12:07:00 -0400 Received: from mail-4322.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.22]:50327) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGO5h-00016q-Nt for 50103@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 12:06:59 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 16:06:48 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail; t=1629302810; bh=Vn2+Ix04/XhADOw/5rbuaP0qa742u48miv25Y8nlXHw=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=SZF2hSyaAkmr/h38MAmCTpXomadIjlrzA35NuEQq0qR2KWWZoj6Wwr9E02mrIwURo 1RtgxiGebOtAp08O5yCUQNNskGylYqt6m3tGAPoQKC5F5/DbjVyELqfXfab2I9+PF/ KNNKvpeP77+E8ALe2CDtcIqyWlS3aEhdxmCM5tcA= From: John Kehayias Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <8260714867d007d924c151a18ff9c63950ab2fcd.camel@student.tugraz.at> <04f0f93cb3dd7fa70d940f200b00432eaf9004e9.camel@telenet.be> <459e9a0866a72bd3bf792d347e249f854e5654e1.camel@student.tugraz.at> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Leo, =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Me= ssage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Wednesday, August 18th, 2021 at 11:19 AM, Leo Prikler wrote: [...] > > > > > > > > > Hi John, > > > > > > > > > > a lot of packages would do much better if they exported > > > > > > > > > > XDG_CONFIG_DIRS. However, there is currently no way of doing so > > > > > > > > > > other than copypasting the same snippet over and over and over > > > > > > > > > > and over. A workaround -- if you need this in an environment -- > > > > > > > > > > is to also include a package, that already has a search path on > > > > > > > > > > XDG_CONFIG_DIRS, like glib (I think glib:bin works too). > > > > I'm slightly confused here: I only see XDG_DATA_DIRS in the glib > > > > package. I include glib to get that export actually (I have > > > > everything in profiles, nothing in the default user). Autostart files > > > > are in $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS/autostart. XDG_DATA_DIRS seems to come up the > > > > most and more needed it seems to me (based on what I have there in a > > > > desktop environment). > > Haha, my bad, yeah glib only provides XDG_DATA_DIRS. In that case I'm > > not sure which one would be the canonical workaround package. > Okay, just checking! I didn't see any workaround package, very few referenc= es to XDG_CONFIG_DIRS in our packages. > > > > > I recently tried exporting XDG_CONFIG_DIRS as a variable from > > > > > > > > > > one module, so that it can be referenced in others, but that > > > > > > > > > > led to a weird recursive errors. It would be nice to find a > > > > > > > > > > good way of doing that, though. > > > > > > > > What do you think of defining the > > > > > > > > $XDG_CONFIG_DIR in (guix search-paths) itself, next to $PATH? > > > > > > > > That seems unlikely to lead to recursive errors. Alternatively, I > > > > > > > > would guess that making 'search-paths' and 'native-search-paths' > > > > > > > > a =E2=80=98thunked=E2=80=99 field would resolve the errors, at cost= of making > > > > > > > > objects use a bit more memory. > > > > > > > > Both sound like interesting proposals. Obviously, adding > > > > > > > > $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS to (guix search-paths) would work in the short > > > > > > > > term, but I think defining all interesting environment variables > > > > > > > > there is probably not the best solution for the future. There's a > > > > > > > > few variables that are used widely FSVO widely, but using them also > > > > > > > > implies having some package as input, e.g. the cURL-related ones. > > > > > > > > XDG_CONFIG_DIRS technically also falls in there, because you will > > > > > > > > have either xorg or xdisorg imported. Therefore, I think I'd prefer > > > > > > > > a solution where variables can be exported (and re-exported) from > > > > > > > > any module in the (gnu packages) subtree. > > > > Is the case here that glib should have XDG_CONFIG_DIRS in it? Or does > > > > that only make sense in some other package that could then be > > > > included in a profile to get XDG_CONFIG_DIRS, similar to > > > > XDG_DATA_DIRS now? > > I'm not sure about that myself but the answer is probably no. > > > I didn't see many references to XDG_CONFIG_DIRS in our current > > > > packages, mostly in some Lisp compilers and a few other random > > > > places. Slightly surprised it is not in more, but maybe packages that > > > > would normally put something in /etc/xdg (default for > > > > XDG_CONFIG_DIRS) have been configured otherwise. > > I think the likelier explanation is that XDG_CONFIG_DIRS is possibly > > underused when compared to XDG_DATA_DIRS. Most packages store their > > configuration -- if any -- in /etc/foo rather than /etc/xdg/foo. I'm > > pretty certain that using /etc/xdg rather than /etc was an error on > > XDG's part as XDG_CONFIG_HOME, which defaults to ~/.config makes much > > more sense from an application writer's POV. > It does seem less universal. On a non-Guix system I see a handful of progra= ms that keep default configurations there, things like ICC profiles, and of= course autostart .desktop files. > > I feel like my setup, from the cookbook, of having everything in > > > > profiles with the default user one being empty other than testing, > > > > has exposed a few related issues. What we are discussing might also > > > > have relevance to dbus files (see #48538), and perhaps to an older > > > > issue about paths and /etc/profile (#20255). (Not to bring up an old > > > > issue, but it was one that came up when searching for related issues > > > > in the past, which I skimmed.) > > You are indeed right, multiple profiles are very badly supported by > > Guix. Needing to jump through the hoops described in the cookbook in > > the first place is in my eyes a clear enough indicator to support my > > point. > And I think that is a shame, as profiles and manifests are such a great fea= ture of Guix. The ability to compartmentalize package groups is very nice j= ust on the organizational level, but does seem less than fully incorporated= at this point. It is a shift from the non-Guix distro experience. > Back in December of 2019, I wrote a proposal that would make it > > possible to add user profiles next to the default profile [1]. It had > > a few problems mostly related to underspecification and in the end went > > nowhere. Earlier this year, around Guix Days, I thought I should > > perhaps revive it, but for personal reasons didn't, instead > > procrastinating. The only thing I now remember from back then was that > > there was a certain push from fellow proponents to just use > > $XDG_DATA_HOME/guix as this directory, but I'm still concerned whether > > that is the correct approach (particularly since /etc/profile might not > > know about the actual value of XDG_DATA_HOME in time). > .config/guix is hardcoded in a few places already isn't it? (or is that jus= t for root? took just a quick look) Personally, I prefer everything in .con= fig to keep the home folder cleaner, but we all know there's a strong mix o= f things like $HOME/.something and $HOME/.config/something. This is just a detail, but could always default to something that matches X= DG even if XDG variables aren't available. Or maybe better to break away an= yway since it is something a bit different. Details. > I think that in order to truly make profiles splits work, we would > > either have to make use of Guix at the lowest level, so as to merge > > Emacs in one profile with a bunch of emacs-foo packages in another or > > make search paths first-class citizens of profiles to allow for > > amendments on top of what is already given by packages. > > WDYT? > > [1] > > https://yhetil.org/guix-devel/eabe0cccdb377b1c573df88715d6aebf7bf7f80c.ca= mel@student.tugraz.at/ Yes, that seems like some options. Personally, I'm a fan of promoting (mult= iple) profiles to more fully first-class citizens in Guix, as that would fi= t well. E.g. having a canonical profile directory, or otherwise making it m= ore baked into the system so you don't need to manually add scripts to loop= over profiles. I suppose that still leaves the question of search paths. I don't think I k= now enough of the internals to have a helpful input here so far. Handling m= ultiple profiles together would help pull in some search-paths and maybe al= leviate #48538 (dbus)? Would then /etc be constructed from all the profiles= together (by passing this XDG_CONFIG_DIRS issue)? If it is still /etc in e= ach profile relying on env to find things, then at least in this case XDG_C= ONFG_DIRS still has to appear somewhere. Search paths in profiles could be = good, conceptually works for how profiles are used, to me. John From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:58:31 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#50103: Pulseaudio doesn't export XDG_CONFIG_DIRS Resent-From: Leo Prikler Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 16:36:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 50103 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: John Kehayias Cc: 50103@debbugs.gnu.org, Maxime Devos Received: via spool by 50103-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B50103.16293045397197 (code B ref 50103); Wed, 18 Aug 2021 16:36:01 +0000 Received: (at 50103) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2021 16:35:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57421 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGOXS-0001rw-LQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 12:35:38 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.tugraz.at ([129.27.2.202]:46773) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGOXP-0001rk-PR for 50103@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 12:35:37 -0400 Received: from nijino.local (62-47-226-13.adsl.highway.telekom.at [62.47.226.13]) by mailrelay.tugraz.at (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4GqYRS5QFRz1LBCr; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 18:35:32 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 mailrelay.tugraz.at 4GqYRS5QFRz1LBCr DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tugraz.at; s=mailrelay; t=1629304533; bh=0N0g3zyvzLL6bwjazikHnwdUwZMP9xi3hTZ1PL8QSyI=; h=Subject:From:To:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=QxPZ/1Uqmcq/2jaSugDW9ytRAOLikssET4fpFejroBds7MdgvZZOHqvDysyXFF8A+ nf32+jwmGzMa4/fGYEfH0kGF4QMcf+E7lKnCSVRGl7kQV9ZGNWsgbJlLgr7sTj1xDR q136XpQSmjA/21YD2YT+djQZTd9pNPUiT6HQZAyk= Message-ID: <870c9fb6c492092ef3b5b41b007c160be423fc69.camel@student.tugraz.at> From: Leo Prikler Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 18:35:31 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <8260714867d007d924c151a18ff9c63950ab2fcd.camel@student.tugraz.at> <04f0f93cb3dd7fa70d940f200b00432eaf9004e9.camel@telenet.be> <459e9a0866a72bd3bf792d347e249f854e5654e1.camel@student.tugraz.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-TUG-Backscatter-control: bt4lQm5Tva3SBgCuw0EnZw X-Spam-Scanner: SpamAssassin 3.003001 X-Spam-Score-relay: -1.9 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.74 on 129.27.10.116 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi John, For the record, you should try to cite in a way, that lines don't get broken. I have no idea why this is happening Am Mittwoch, den 18.08.2021, 16:06 +0000 schrieb John Kehayias: > Hi Leo, > > On Wednesday, August 18th, 2021 at 11:19 AM, Leo Prikler wrote: > [...] > .config/guix is hardcoded in a few places already isn't it? (or is > that just for root? took just a quick look) Personally, I prefer > everything in .config to keep the home folder cleaner, but we all > know there's a strong mix of things like $HOME/.something and > $HOME/.config/something. $(HOME)/.config is particularly hard-coded in the current /etc/profile, which is why I dub it "fake XDG conformance". I personally disagree with the use for $(HOME)/.config for software packages. > [...] > > I suppose that still leaves the question of search paths. I don't > think I know enough of the internals to have a helpful input here so > far. Handling multiple profiles together would help pull in some > search-paths and maybe alleviate #48538 (dbus)? Would then /etc be > constructed from all the profiles together (by passing this > XDG_CONFIG_DIRS issue)? If it is still /etc in each profile relying > on env to find things, then at least in this case XDG_CONFG_DIRS > still has to appear somewhere. Search paths in profiles could be > good, conceptually works for how profiles are used, to me. For context, `guix package --search-paths' would implement the merged approach IIUC, but then you would have to invoke guix from /etc/profile, which reportedly is not every person's tea. You could still manually source $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile, but would then get an incomplete view depending on what your profiles look like. As for the XDG_CONFIG_DIRS, I don't think your scenario is the only possible one, but with things being as they are currently, it is among the likeliest outcomes. Another approach would be to define "precious" search paths, which would be considered even if not explicitly mentioned by any package/profile. (I think this somewhat overlaps with/complements search paths as a first-class manifest citizen). I'm just throwing out ideas here, so you shouldn't necessarily take any of them as *the* solution to all our problems or something that can be easily implemented given the status quo, but if you want, you can take some inspiration from them or try out your own (thought) experiments. Regards From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:58:31 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#50103: Pulseaudio doesn't export XDG_CONFIG_DIRS Resent-From: John Kehayias Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 17:54:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 50103 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Leo Prikler Cc: 50103@debbugs.gnu.org, Maxime Devos Reply-To: John Kehayias Received: via spool by 50103-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B50103.162930920315089 (code B ref 50103); Wed, 18 Aug 2021 17:54:02 +0000 Received: (at 50103) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Aug 2021 17:53:23 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57544 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGPkc-0003vD-66 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 13:53:22 -0400 Received: from mail-40136.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.136]:15935) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mGPkV-0003ut-71 for 50103@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 13:53:16 -0400 Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 17:53:00 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail; t=1629309184; bh=JbZv/WQQfWEWDGzH4fd9FgNFYdQwv3xziMY97Au0yiM=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=UrXu0MSaGPveAtr1E4mENlMMW6kSV4rwXX9LKhJyql9Fn+SS90mTwMzsrSiPdwxzj CWJceEjSgBlPu7lXmkPEd5YaXLJKxPcSN5bthClhc/E+flYk8yTAuiH2k+oCYLdvOy FHtrB1P1hzr3ynHmD3qTqLsLuWL6ok2anEon91n8= From: John Kehayias Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <870c9fb6c492092ef3b5b41b007c160be423fc69.camel@student.tugraz.at> References: <8260714867d007d924c151a18ff9c63950ab2fcd.camel@student.tugraz.at> <04f0f93cb3dd7fa70d940f200b00432eaf9004e9.camel@telenet.be> <459e9a0866a72bd3bf792d347e249f854e5654e1.camel@student.tugraz.at> <870c9fb6c492092ef3b5b41b007c160be423fc69.camel@student.tugraz.at> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM shortcircuit=no autolearn=disabled version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on mailout.protonmail.ch X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Leo, =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Me= ssage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Wednesday, August 18th, 2021 at 12:35 PM, Leo Prikler wrote: > Hi John, > > For the record, you should try to cite in a way, that lines don't get > broken. I have no idea why this is happening > I just noticed that too, sorry. Seems protonmail likes to wrap at a shorter= length and introduces these blank lines. Guess it is about time I get this= account into mu4e. > Am Mittwoch, den 18.08.2021, 16:06 +0000 schrieb John Kehayias: > > > Hi Leo, > > > > On Wednesday, August 18th, 2021 at 11:19 AM, Leo Prikler wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > .config/guix is hardcoded in a few places already isn't it? (or is > > that just for root? took just a quick look) Personally, I prefer > > everything in .config to keep the home folder cleaner, but we all > > know there's a strong mix of things like $HOME/.something and > > $HOME/.config/something. > > $(HOME)/.config is particularly hard-coded in the current /etc/profile, > which is why I dub it "fake XDG conformance". I personally disagree > with the use for $(HOME)/.config for software packages. > Well, it is all a bit of a mess. Off topic, but I try to use literate org f= iles and stow to wrangle everything. > > [...] > > > > I suppose that still leaves the question of search paths. I don't > > think I know enough of the internals to have a helpful input here so > > far. Handling multiple profiles together would help pull in some > > search-paths and maybe alleviate #48538 (dbus)? Would then /etc be > > constructed from all the profiles together (by passing this > > XDG_CONFIG_DIRS issue)? If it is still /etc in each profile relying > > on env to find things, then at least in this case XDG_CONFG_DIRS > > still has to appear somewhere. Search paths in profiles could be > > good, conceptually works for how profiles are used, to me. > > For context, `guix package --search-paths' would implement the merged > approach IIUC, but then you would have to invoke guix from > /etc/profile, which reportedly is not every person's tea. You could > still manually source $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile, but would then get an > incomplete view depending on what your profiles look like. > That was the discussion in #20255 that was never resolved. In this case, I don't think any combination of `guix package --search-paths= ` will update XDG_CONFIG_DIRS since it is not in the native-search-paths of= any of my included packages, as far as I can tell. I do see it included in= qtbase, but I'd rather avoid pulling that in unless I actually have qt pac= kages (which I probably will at some point). Just checking, and installing = qtbase would indeed add XDG_CONFIG_DIRS to the /etc/profile as expected. Is there a reason qtbase has it but nothing on the glib/gtk/xorg side? > As for the XDG_CONFIG_DIRS, I don't think your scenario is the only > possible one, but with things being as they are currently, it is among > the likeliest outcomes. Another approach would be to define "precious" > search paths, which would be considered even if not explicitly > mentioned by any package/profile. (I think this somewhat overlaps > with/complements search paths as a first-class manifest citizen). I'm > just throwing out ideas here, so you shouldn't necessarily take any of > them as the solution to all our problems or something that can be > easily implemented given the status quo, but if you want, you can take > some inspiration from them or try out your own (thought) experiments. > I understand, this is a longer-term direction to discuss (I can certainly w= ork around this issue in many ways). I think the related dbus issue #48538 = is more noticeable, but all point towards better sorting out how we treat p= rofiles and search-paths. My process as a new Guix user is to get everythin= g working as I like it, and then try to reduce the edge case workarounds I'= ve had to put in (a related one is #44997, for packages that may put things= in /etc/profile.d). I think it would be good to get some overall input and direction for what p= eople would like as the next steps in how we manage profiles (and search-pa= ths). Thanks for the discussion so far, hopefully we can get some broad design ch= oices and end goals in mind to then work out details. John From unknown Sun Jun 15 08:58:31 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#50103: Pulseaudio doesn't export XDG_CONFIG_DIRS Resent-From: zimoun Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-guix@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 10:01:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 50103 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Leo Prikler , John Kehayias Cc: 50103@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 50103-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B50103.16294536387238 (code B ref 50103); Fri, 20 Aug 2021 10:01:02 +0000 Received: (at 50103) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Aug 2021 10:00:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32962 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mH1KE-0001sc-Ai for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 06:00:38 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f43.google.com ([209.85.128.43]:38863) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mH1KA-0001sM-1z for 50103@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 06:00:33 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f43.google.com with SMTP id f13-20020a1c6a0d000000b002e6fd0b0b3fso7054714wmc.3 for <50103@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 03:00:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wovHFAx3/GUMggLr6lgfRBu7IY5njmKdRqiNd9D4Rm8=; b=JuJexPj39/hQD0IuHsVMu73m9TwMch53ewQGPFprZzTEwIzalPIaIalbl9RCmTqoGD GDJa5yLMSTlSs8xxOpQEne/FRsroTiOE2zfhEHGhSIiAcODI4849UGAQbaWWXLO1qcFk ReaXOZ8KnX8bsF9tUUvBfESwEeYTcfzLMNDkn5KlnoM6bpgxopdDcrXg6CDaMHxjbu4C cfQIlhfN0SPr9fsFso4TE/CTLVLM2q1ty+fvqWxQk9gZCqqt0thYLbahJO5CHi3XxgPR lvD67i9hKNlQBsIGmKU/uElBGA+1XS72ucHCsOe/NrGdhUFyFWD/9JWSaSKL7Q41JRJR qbag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wovHFAx3/GUMggLr6lgfRBu7IY5njmKdRqiNd9D4Rm8=; b=cCIJvZ51ZMVTYiRPNLKMV8ocUb9WBRlXPYAFKUvnfoBlWq8qoXjcn0aZdAsUHY84O5 /M0a66xQh6TZR2BGRrqlTs2WgWJU5fISvwtjhzkRUXWbRIzVO2TQZ4eZQPOpB6Qo7/UF ghokaNaMLcxnqefcs/urRJP0IfXjVS8XF7m4ys8dA/YfoABCVIyxvWvhNJIbjnRg2my9 JDwRacfh4LEiSSfychxDb2X1AyWMq0FsYbH7E66gGNLv9wHMZTKwxv6anjO7jMqw6Ma6 /WreXlGgOeFf+x7nKTTj54HWeRQb9/yVaMPRtq3gmTMINMSIoXslHMKnROn4pbAbCX9k cJZw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530TMuSYtYwc9uF3KZt3C1M5M4MHy4WeESHrtXmUzaXTQ7mzK2wO ZoYkjr+1bLSKME+++59vgeaWO01GlT63WQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx2xraQG7xGX2ECCEskKvPeqTuhUgm0pD5bEr8+0FLS1asgCAMQaGezoM3Jf+DONg9HfLznXw== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:7902:: with SMTP id l2mr2997369wme.71.1629453624201; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 03:00:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lili ([2a01:e0a:59b:9120:65d2:2476:f637:db1e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h4sm5559552wrm.42.2021.08.20.03.00.22 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 20 Aug 2021 03:00:23 -0700 (PDT) From: zimoun In-Reply-To: <870c9fb6c492092ef3b5b41b007c160be423fc69.camel@student.tugraz.at> References: <8260714867d007d924c151a18ff9c63950ab2fcd.camel@student.tugraz.at> <04f0f93cb3dd7fa70d940f200b00432eaf9004e9.camel@telenet.be> <459e9a0866a72bd3bf792d347e249f854e5654e1.camel@student.tugraz.at> <870c9fb6c492092ef3b5b41b007c160be423fc69.camel@student.tugraz.at> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 11:44:06 +0200 Message-ID: <865yw0pi1l.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi, On Wed, 18 Aug 2021 at 18:35, Leo Prikler w= rote: > Am Mittwoch, den 18.08.2021, 16:06 +0000 schrieb John Kehayias: >> .config/guix is hardcoded in a few places already isn't it? (or is >> that just for root? took just a quick look) Personally, I prefer >> everything in .config to keep the home folder cleaner, but we all >> know there's a strong mix of things like $HOME/.something and >> $HOME/.config/something. > $(HOME)/.config is particularly hard-coded in the current /etc/profile, > which is why I dub it "fake XDG conformance". I personally disagree > with the use for $(HOME)/.config for software packages. Well, let open a new thread and resume the previous discussion should nice. From what I remember, the consensus had been (almost) reached and none of us took the time to propose a draft patch. :-) We could imagine a hierarchy where the profile are looked for=E2=80=93=E2= =80=93say ~/.cache/guix/profiles/ then ~/.config/guix/profiles then etc.=E2=80=93=E2= =80=93or an environment variable to let the user have the control. Whatever, we all have an idea but nothing concrete to discussion the details. ;-) >From my understanding, set a central place where the profiles live would be very helpful. Having only one big profile slows down a lot of operation when several ones ease the maintenance, IMHO. Cheers, simon PS: Personally, I have profiles with my tools (Emacs, notmuch, etc. )under ~/.config/guix/profiles and these profiles are generated with manifests under ~/.config/guix/manifests/ (folder under Git). Then inside each project, I have a manifest file specific for the project, then sometime the profile lives here, sometime I only use =E2=80=9Cguix environment=E2=80=9D, etc.