From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 30 14:52:30 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jul 2021 18:52:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60930 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m9XcQ-0006IQ-RG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 14:52:30 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:42658) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m9XcO-0006IJ-Rp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 14:52:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34890) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m9XcO-0001oG-G8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 14:52:24 -0400 Received: from smtp-outgoing-1902.laposte.net ([160.92.124.106]:50089) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m9XcL-0001JV-Va for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 14:52:23 -0400 X-mail-filterd: {"version":"1.2.2", "queueID":"4GbxMq1XTnz7t7Z", "contextId":"c5e8021a-95a4-4102-bc55-ebf1df72d19c"} Received: from outgoing-mail.laposte.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpnf0102.laposte.net (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 4GbxMq1XTnz7t7Z for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 20:52:07 +0200 (CEST) X-mail-filterd: {"version":"1.2.2", "queueID":"4GbxMq0Btdz7t7T", "contextId":"39d0f12e-1428-44b4-be7d-f5677a1cbc5e"} X-lpn-mailing: LEGIT X-lpn-spamrating: 40 X-lpn-spamlevel: not-spam X-lpn-spamcause: OK, (0)(0000)gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvtddrheehgdduvdefucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecunfetrffquffvgfdpqfgfvfdpggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefhvffufffkgggtgfesthhqredttddtjeenucfhrhhomhepmfgvvhhinhcugghighhouhhrohhugicuoehkvgdrvhhighhouhhrohhugieslhgrphhoshhtvgdrnhgvtheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnheptdeukeegfedthedugeevgfefkeegfffhheelveeludeukeejvddvkeeffffhtdfhnecukfhppedutdelrddvudekrddufedtrdduiedunecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehhvghloheprghrrghgohhgpdhinhgvthepuddtledrvddukedrudeftddrudeiuddpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehkvgdrvhhighhouhhrohhugieslhgrphhoshhtvgdrnhgvthdprhgtphhtthhopegsuhhgqdhgnhhuqdgvmhgrtghssehgnhhurdhorhhg Received: from aragog (arennes-653-1-291-161.w109-218.abo.wanadoo.fr [109.218.130.161]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mlpnf0102.laposte.net (SMTP Server) with ESMTPSA id 4GbxMq0Btdz7t7T for ; Fri, 30 Jul 2021 20:52:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Kevin Vigouroux To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: [DOC] About Lisp Data Types Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 20:52:05 +0200 Message-ID: <87o8ajzlbe.fsf@laposte.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=laposte.net; s=lpn-wlmd; t=1627671130; bh=+NUW6Ar2Df/Ij8RRDrnSL+29bbQ6LKsUO/JXOZ0RkWU=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=cEl22r3w5ldJnWjV4Kvoyo/SRky2sncSbw6FNaTGYrjEp8DeMeop5/2/MfilA4hqEdMMIDpRjz2G9M2riGF69NdNAknw5/sIhmVkck0bak+3sFtZCe6y38ianE7Xn3rZ8n2TuUWfJqlPLKT6KBqG5dPX9LXKp9VSqCb5pvTtisEDMVmnfDqKjP2jWQL2VbEBM50/nRupHUKQZZt1F3xss4Xn+GP9YwpxPoxTMI5aFyQR+oI8JiggVpCY0IJpZ2OR8suUMxY/pOsG3htx1lm1YV1E+7HKeZxDkm0HbJyp94s4TnbOA7HCwiWOTNCqFYR/eU7Ty/bM15WDGMKf60ZFpA==; Received-SPF: pass client-ip=160.92.124.106; envelope-from=ke.vigouroux@laposte.net; helo=smtp-outgoing-1902.laposte.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) Some expressions about data types are convoluted or could be more expressive. [[info:elisp#Some Terms]] [...] that convert textual representations of Lisp objects into actual Lisp objects, and vice versa. [[info:elisp#Lisp Data Types]] Objects of the same type have similar structures and may usually be used in the same contexts. [...] the primitive type of each object is implicit in the object itself. [...] Such type declarations do not exist in Emacs Lisp. A Lisp variable can have any type of value, and it remembers whatever value you store in it, type and all. I would have phrased it differently. =E2=80=9CThe representation of a Lisp program is fundamental. At a high lev= el, the operation of the program is represented by its components. At a low level, a Lisp program is a collection of routines which process data found in the source files. Globally, a Lisp program is a set of expressions formed with objects: data structures, lists and symbols.=E2=80= =9D From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 31 07:18:48 2021 Received: (at 49785) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jul 2021 11:18:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33335 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m9n0y-0006y8-B7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2021 07:18:48 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:52098) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m9n0u-0006xr-Sl for 49785@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2021 07:18:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=qANoyMvxpnA51OiYuKcmQCCwBnqoEytf8hqHHpb4FxM=; b=HCH2wc4gmPj5O/8jjCJRVsEgm/ dg2GE0yFBWPGE3EEDnEHEu3xQfY9ylUMoz2rOBf83YdblKT+kakaZrRqSHXc7UD3RuoP+IwzyB2BK f6CU15YNrvm7PtAX8EpAW2nphGL15Kmpgt4TLoIDK3ZlEgYAX6sB8YlI7PY54cf9G5PA=; Received: from 2.149.45.105.tmi.telenormobil.no ([2.149.45.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m9n0l-00031g-GM; Sat, 31 Jul 2021 13:18:38 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Kevin Vigouroux Subject: Re: bug#49785: [DOC] About Lisp Data Types References: <87o8ajzlbe.fsf@laposte.net> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 13:18:33 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87o8ajzlbe.fsf@laposte.net> (Kevin Vigouroux's message of "Fri, 30 Jul 2021 20:52:05 +0200") Message-ID: <87zgu2ivee.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Kevin Vigouroux writes: > I would have phrased it differently. > > “The representation of a Lisp program is fundamental. At a high level, > the operation of the program is represented by its components. At a low > level, a [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP 0.0 TVD_RCVD_IP Message was received from an IP address -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49785 Cc: 49785@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Kevin Vigouroux writes: > I would have phrased it differently. > > =E2=80=9CThe representation of a Lisp program is fundamental. At a high l= evel, > the operation of the program is represented by its components. At a low > level, a Lisp program is a collection of routines which process data > found in the source files. Globally, a Lisp program is a set of > expressions formed with objects: data structures, lists and symbols.=E2= =80=9D Sorry; I don't see any problems with the original text, and I don't think the proposed text explains anything much to people who are interested in what Emacs Lisp is. Closing. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 31 07:18:52 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jul 2021 11:18:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33338 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m9n11-0006yP-L0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2021 07:18:51 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:52112) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m9n0z-0006xz-Th for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2021 07:18:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=d9zie5V1dg94kCVoUXLTcbbGxaXo2kpVEwUoZCxWfdE=; b=IhH0ccCFXhIvkuaiPQdjFKaTsz R6sEFk9AmVvJejuLhgwukm+oz6Q3Wf/Do29X1zm9DX5OBJg7/qkLtSSTeG6w0lTMgIYjS30452xVr 1GTOuR3dxx05Bj83dcR3XRsPIF3U50OFLp5HdfC7NwQZGstVCNckYdsE2qrr2sSFZls8=; Received: from 2.149.45.105.tmi.telenormobil.no ([2.149.45.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m9n0r-00031n-QN for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2021 13:18:44 +0200 Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 13:18:40 +0200 Message-Id: <87y29mive7.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #49785 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 49785 notabug close 49785 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP 0.0 TVD_RCVD_IP Message was received from an IP address -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 49785 notabug close 49785 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 31 12:47:00 2021 Received: (at 49785) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Jul 2021 16:47:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34746 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m9s8Z-0004qu-W1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2021 12:47:00 -0400 Received: from smtp-outgoing-1602.laposte.net ([160.92.124.97]:40344) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m9s8W-0004js-Ge for 49785@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2021 12:46:58 -0400 X-mail-filterd: {"version":"1.2.2", "queueID":"4GcVXg49zvzPjdG", "contextId":"79bcd3cf-3dfd-43eb-928e-7bf8380f7e3a"} Received: from outgoing-mail.laposte.net (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpnf0117.laposte.net (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 4GcVXg49zvzPjdG; Sat, 31 Jul 2021 18:46:43 +0200 (CEST) X-mail-filterd: {"version":"1.2.2", "queueID":"4GcVXg2KxgzPjdF", "contextId":"f6498810-2862-4eb4-a561-4c86f92cab2d"} X-lpn-mailing: LEGIT X-lpn-spamrating: 36 X-lpn-spamlevel: not-spam X-lpn-spamcause: OK, (-100)(0000)gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvtddrheejgdellecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfntefrqffuvffgpdfqfgfvpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpefhvffufhffjgfkfgggtgesthdtredttdertdenucfhrhhomhepmfgvvhhinhcugghighhouhhrohhugicuoehkvgdrvhhighhouhhrohhugieslhgrphhoshhtvgdrnhgvtheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepgfeuleehveeugfeiudeuhedvieefffejfeeukefftdefteevudegteelgfffteejnecukfhppedutdelrddvudekrddufedtrdduiedunecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehhvghloheprghrrghgohhgpdhinhgvthepuddtledrvddukedrudeftddrudeiuddpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehkvgdrvhhighhouhhrohhugieslhgrphhoshhtvgdrnhgvthdprhgtphhtthhopeegleejkeehseguvggssghughhsrdhgnhhurdhorhhgpdhrtghpthhtoheplhgrrhhsihesghhnuhhsrdhorhhg Received: from aragog (arennes-653-1-291-161.w109-218.abo.wanadoo.fr [109.218.130.161]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mlpnf0117.laposte.net (SMTP Server) with ESMTPSA id 4GcVXg2KxgzPjdF; Sat, 31 Jul 2021 18:46:43 +0200 (CEST) From: Kevin Vigouroux To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#49785: [DOC] About Lisp Data Types References: <87o8ajzlbe.fsf@laposte.net> <87zgu2ivee.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 18:46:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87zgu2ivee.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 31 Jul 2021 13:18:33 +0200") Message-ID: <87mtq2h1n1.fsf@laposte.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=laposte.net; s=lpn-wlmd; t=1627750009; bh=rOzP6jtljeW2oSv1gJbQUc9vB+V/e7+KirsKgEKdUws=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=NTXi95R/W6qt0NxBiItzUB7NxksNeMqTJWbVAFkxPeSnFAfAHvqpvc8hk+MATLj62pajrhmoa6oeESASn38Cbh+gwXfZDCGN3CvFShlJjWljPTRUAqElgeB42h5yP33fES4Efatrkt3k/pIUmHQwCuCEEhAQRLlZxBW8BY7WxOBhJMYan2gu1Mup2VT9hmbLf29S5/Qc/rxeQSL6nlWG9visCNvLZ0qole929Ws8Ki1mtdrc2M9dfJDN3Qd1UCyUz59JVCmNgJL0evtY+XKxibDhqpkrXWoPRN6Eabo0J6SogGppEtYN3zjc01QCpJNvK7CtG0oco2KCFM3SHLSUxQ==; X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49785 Cc: 49785@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) It is written in black on white: we explain what constitutes a Lisp program using the syntax as a thread. [[info:elisp#Lisp Data Types]] This chapter describes the purpose, printed representation and read syntax of each of the standard types in GNU Emacs Lisp. The problem is that it's not well presented. What is the link between a variable, objects, what can be displayed and the Lisp syntax? Nothing. Best Regards, Kevin Vigouroux From unknown Mon Aug 18 06:56:59 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2021 11:24:08 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator