From unknown Fri Jun 20 18:14:19 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#49424 <49424@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#49424 <49424@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file Reply-To: bug#49424 <49424@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2025 01:14:19 +0000 retitle 49424 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file reassign 49424 emacs submitter 49424 Peter Oliver severity 49424 normal thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 05 18:57:12 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jul 2021 22:57:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46823 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m0XWa-0002yk-9m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2021 18:57:12 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:38604) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m0XWY-0002yc-Ap for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2021 18:57:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60364) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m0XWY-0000Hc-1A for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2021 18:57:10 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-x430.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::430]:44839) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m0XWV-0006x4-5c for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Jul 2021 18:57:08 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-x430.google.com with SMTP id t15so20393328wry.11 for ; Mon, 05 Jul 2021 15:57:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mavit.org.uk; s=google; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=BSJOOibhniojA1mGZOmyc2c//c6QdW2n0PYHAGOpHE0=; b=D5giG0/vwga7BVDDxYc91wsWmlcPLfQuKjPHvEnjnV1mThox17A0Ul4NwOnj8xoXd1 NGpcO2MqLJZg1DR9mhBUfPxoHHttL3Qf1THjfIjr1A+4a9lFv0KaTkWaiJq6mudmDOD+ 4lg5CCCAvPt+Cmrzh0o8hW9qYKaGdgd6A2Bs4= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=BSJOOibhniojA1mGZOmyc2c//c6QdW2n0PYHAGOpHE0=; b=Tc7heli4AiZY4tebDfWdpDVf/JhaPG35JGCMLvFtKEp3vM4L2/C7UEPo9I4kj6zoQS 3gOTFfJ9MI70/RY12r9YRR5+ypoOxRHmEakBoV5ivnvLOQkAtIYrXxLDObaPhCGy/Sik 04vnwwbCrf3PS4lf7tXhRs+ONiWrdhX83T2by1vD3iYFqatQfyWy/TwYSZrhzAVs8UWz 79zZmkITFkHUMHw+KGGkEvmSSisx9Lbo4KzNlB6UdP0XREv9gWV/uv2t1QqGUlbpTJQ8 sEWeXKX9gkmdKEb6PRhVhOzqCxJIUnqJ+i3NUdd/baoZJst3wbnsS6N0Q5t6038ZZ/LJ MZ5A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53369BbcBKmaKtpiPrmUmzQoUcZRs4Q+O64QVBvjB05A2Hmhs3vz TU7NRM+7Ii8I8vvwYMxjKh+A0FHh9tFcBA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyLrCHG4GDoeRBy6kYPalEjh1S9FRADBr7zFpgKyMg4W/aK6L/TOqlngKlxIe8mV/t7SJWU7A== X-Received: by 2002:adf:8bc9:: with SMTP id w9mr17582802wra.378.1625525823815; Mon, 05 Jul 2021 15:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (cpc118948-dudl14-2-0-cust32.16-1.cable.virginm.net. [82.37.201.33]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y8sm14381043wrr.76.2021.07.05.15.57.02 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 05 Jul 2021 15:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 165Mv16R051609 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2021 23:57:01 +0100 Received: (from mavit@localhost) by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 165Mv1XC051608; Mon, 5 Jul 2021 23:57:01 +0100 From: Peter Oliver To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2021 23:56:50 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::430; envelope-from=mavit@mavit.org.uk; helo=mail-wr1-x430.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) The info page =E2=80=9C49.4.4 How Emacs Finds Your Init File=E2=80=9D says: > For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just > the current default location =E2=80=98~/.emacs.d/init.el=E2=80=99 for the= init file. However, this seems to be inaccurate: if I start Emacs as a new user and ma= ke a customisation, that customisation is written to ~/.emacs.=20=20 In GNU Emacs 27.2 (build 1, x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.29, = cairo version 1.17.4) of 2021-05-25 built on 67aec83703474aab90196a48063fea20 Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12011000 System Description: Fedora 34 (Workstation Edition) Configured using: 'configure --build=3Dx86_64-redhat-linux-gnu --host=3Dx86_64-redhat-linux-gnu --program-prefix=3D --disable-dependency-tracking --prefix=3D/usr --exec-prefix=3D/usr --bindir=3D/usr/bin --sbindir=3D/usr/sbin --sysconfdir=3D/etc --datadir=3D/usr/share --includedir=3D/usr/include --libdir=3D/usr/lib64 --libexecdir=3D/usr/libexec --localstatedir=3D/var --sharedstatedir=3D/var/lib --mandir=3D/usr/share/man --infodir=3D/usr/share/info --with-dbus --with-gif --with-jpeg --with-png --with-rsvg --with-tiff --with-xft --with-xpm --with-x-toolkit=3Dgtk3 --with-gpm=3Dno --with-xwidgets --with-modules --with-harfbuzz --with-cairo --with-json build_alias=3Dx86_64-redhat-linux-gnu host_alias=3Dx86_64-redhat-linux-gnu CC=3Dgcc 'CFLAGS=3D-DMAIL_USE_LOCKF -= O2 -flto=3Dauto -ffat-lto-objects -fexceptions -g -grecord-gcc-switches -pipe -Wall -Werror=3Dformat-security -Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=3D2 -Wp,-D_GLIBCXX_ASSERTIONS -specs=3D/usr/lib/rpm/redhat/redhat-hardened-cc1 -fstack-protector-strong -specs=3D/usr/lib/rpm/redhat/redhat-annobin-cc1 -m64 -mtune=3Dgeneric -fasynchronous-unwind-tables -fstack-clash-protection -fcf-protection' LDFLAGS=3D-Wl,-z,relro PKG_CONFIG_PATH=3D:/usr/lib64/pkgconfig:/usr/share/pkgconfig' Configured features: XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG CAIRO SOUND DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY INOTIFY ACL LIBSELINUX GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ M17N_FLT LIBOTF ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS XWIDGETS LIBSYSTEMD JSON PDUMPER GMP --=20 Peter Oliver From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 06 11:11:52 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jul 2021 15:11:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49732 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m0mjo-00016N-Bu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 11:11:52 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:41358) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m0mjj-000164-Ci for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 11:11:51 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=KqEQrJZxMKkh4ToZvE4aoZyF8JYRR81/+QbHUWgtGAc=; b=Jyp/zWPS+BrPAv+ljCFEAw9cFx ISCOIliFCS6ZlbEODoqOUtQfC/g8wTe0C0I4LEd4luFzVH8hcBMhg7MBK7CVzgUNghkXbFHFmsbmE yovLO0P/Dfmu+aWDuiCGsyoc9jtVqQlSPeJsURVNRFa1Yac5J2/qd00/kNal+xW8OJY0=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m0mja-0002Jv-Li; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 17:11:41 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Peter Oliver Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: X-Now-Playing: Black Midi's _Live on Canal St, NYC_: "Live on Canal St, NYC" Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 17:11:38 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Peter Oliver's message of "Mon, 05 Jul 2021 23:56:50 +0100") Message-ID: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Peter Oliver writes: > The info page “49.4.4 How Emacs Finds Your Init File” says: > >> For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just >> the current default location ‘~/.emacs.d/init.el’ for [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: 49424@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Peter Oliver writes: > The info page =E2=80=9C49.4.4 How Emacs Finds Your Init File=E2=80=9D say= s: > >> For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just >> the current default location =E2=80=98~/.emacs.d/init.el=E2=80=99 for th= e init file. > > However, this seems to be inaccurate: if I start Emacs as a new user > and make a customisation, that customisation is written to ~/.emacs. That is indeed the case still in Emacs 28 -- I thought we'd changed that to prefer either XDG paths or ~/.emacs.d/init.el when there's no previous init file? --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 05:17:34 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 09:17:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50885 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m13gT-0004E6-QQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 05:17:34 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f52.google.com ([209.85.128.52]:42800) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m13gR-0004Dr-Qf for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 05:17:32 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f52.google.com with SMTP id j16-20020a05600c1c10b0290204b096b0caso1202451wms.1 for <49424@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 02:17:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zdAsuvU2w0sl1QXkOwpnotzjBQKENgFXZKVLq/oHaLM=; b=ObfrNCNg9icPfrz3TGyJIioPfv2n8XWQbeup2iFqqe2WQIItCt5VK1DhbSJP85g6FV 9EWBTUIi6VKfdBahR+f2HzYNXWoqaxtLULKiEucZDfh/h+2L0HafL1IsGM1E+H+Cdu4d Dr5NwV9AWYcnqCGfFtu237aj0gemfJX5k2QeU7lhCYAhmwFP4JM6d4+60Sp//3p9BG0V ynOm8fOdIdRHeSc5oeZgHIpZJLaXmrkKFwx6wy1TE2akHDZwCr02ucQwSzgRREXMWQ3c KZa6/leCR2fx+xPJRV8jk6eeitXyTUp/dEXPvstrrrPK2b+lUNbMxjYBU4/m/v9YyxXj iFYg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zdAsuvU2w0sl1QXkOwpnotzjBQKENgFXZKVLq/oHaLM=; b=hVtf/1AGL3yWMrJaarwO8KAV8nobJa+ZyncTsnQpBp//hJqanSh32ZbkTWMUhB9BOP Yl84/obqSlzYfTrhjIU/Mn+2jrXV9rmB0ea1M5QjTrv+11esE9tL2iUa0Qxak3UmtUsG avrmOjp5Y63hZvpVAgWVa3XtAfLxwF9OIdUrQJTlzgUwJodst66LyQuMwJgxT4OZqFnO yo8IiIi74W3x8BLVHdc0gHK+Nlw54/WWexfNtYnDOuXKKKZ71CidnLVj3qbgLO64Awam CEzIGGHE0Hn4XEsU4rfsiqpjljaZT1D/rp7oSwNSy+A0yH2YUqdhsSg1Hox/sdGLfdxx SysA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531aKDmrZAHKWjZG0cvdNt1+vJY+AfaRyXweNKwpm8cMVas6lkAK /vvYoNTH4HqtOOlfa08ghaxU8qKtv4s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz9QZGO8jQBJoNgJr2UJTdHvbnC0ZQHm8UoWin8y/aUiXvNh51YZjna/FSJc541gH9UsQKVfQ== X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c844:: with SMTP id c4mr5598639wml.107.1625649445596; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 02:17:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rltb ([82.66.8.55]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b15sm23525149wrr.27.2021.07.07.02.17.24 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 07 Jul 2021 02:17:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 11:17:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 06 Jul 2021 17:11:38 +0200") Message-ID: <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, Peter Oliver X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Tue, 06 Jul 2021 17:11:38 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen said: Lars> Peter Oliver writes: >> The info page =E2=80=9C49.4.4 How Emacs Finds Your Init File=E2=80= =9D says: >>=20 >>> For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just >>> the current default location =E2=80=98~/.emacs.d/init.el=E2=80=99 f= or the init file. >>=20 >> However, this seems to be inaccurate: if I start Emacs as a new user >> and make a customisation, that customisation is written to ~/.emacs. Yes, we should change that to say '~/.emacs' Lars> That is indeed the case still in Emacs 28 -- I thought we'd chang= ed that Lars> to prefer either XDG paths or ~/.emacs.d/init.el when there's no Lars> previous init file? Emacs will prefer the XDG path if it exists and .emacs.d/init.el and .emacs don=CA=BCt. Similarly Emacs will prefer .emacs.d/init.el if it exists and .emacs doesn=CA=BCt. If nothing exists, Emacs will create ~/.emacs.d, and use ~/.emacs as the init file. We can change that to use ~/.emacs.d/init.el if we want, people who already have init files will not be affected. Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 07:31:18 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 11:31:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51005 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m15lt-0002if-Vy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 07:31:18 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:54118) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m15lq-0002fh-HX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 07:31:16 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34350) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m15lq-0006ze-9Z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 07:31:14 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:58356) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m15lo-0005tX-MV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 07:31:14 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m15lk-000AKQ-Ok for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 13:31:08 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Rudolf Schlatte Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 13:28:30 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:05CoOOrL84W9U07R8DCpY28Eh9U= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) Robert Pluim writes: >>>>>> On Tue, 06 Jul 2021 17:11:38 +0200, Lars Ingebrigtsen said: > > Lars> Peter Oliver writes: > >> The info page “49.4.4 How Emacs Finds Your Init File” says: > >> > >>> For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just > >>> the current default location ‘~/.emacs.d/init.el’ for the init file. > >> > >> However, this seems to be inaccurate: if I start Emacs as a new user > >> and make a customisation, that customisation is written to ~/.emacs. > > Yes, we should change that to say '~/.emacs' > > Lars> That is indeed the case still in Emacs 28 -- I thought we'd changed that > Lars> to prefer either XDG paths or ~/.emacs.d/init.el when there's no > Lars> previous init file? > > Emacs will prefer the XDG path if it exists and .emacs.d/init.el and > .emacs donʼt. Similarly Emacs will prefer .emacs.d/init.el if it > exists and .emacs doesnʼt. I wonder if it would make sense to warn during startup if more than one of these files exist, something like: "Warning: multiple init files detected. Using ~/.emacs as init file, ignoring ~/.emacs.d/init.el" From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 08:24:31 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 12:24:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51051 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m16bP-00054G-ME for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 08:24:31 -0400 Received: from smtp-1.orcon.net.nz ([60.234.4.34]:43749) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m16bL-000541-6h for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 08:24:30 -0400 Received: from [10.253.37.70] (port=49207 helo=webmail.orcon.net.nz) by smtp-1.orcon.net.nz with esmtpa (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m16bG-0007k7-E6; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 00:24:22 +1200 Received: from ip-116-251-162-85.kinect.net.nz ([116.251.162.85]) via [10.253.37.253] by webmail.orcon.net.nz with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Thu, 08 Jul 2021 00:24:22 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 00:24:22 +1200 From: Phil Sainty To: Robert Pluim Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file In-Reply-To: <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: X-Sender: psainty@orcon.net.nz User-Agent: Orcon Webmail X-GeoIP: -- X-Spam_score: -2.9 X-Spam_score_int: -28 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Peter Oliver , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 2021-07-07 21:17, Robert Pluim wrote: > If nothing exists, Emacs will create ~/.emacs.d, and use ~/.emacs as > as the init file. We can change that to use ~/.emacs.d/init.el if we > want, people who already have init files will not be affected. > I know of people who have ~/.emacs.d under version control (used on multiple machines), and on some machines additionally have a ~/.emacs file for config which is local to that particular machine. The .emacs file simply loads the init.el file. There are other ways of achieving the same thing; but I thought this one was quite a neat approach when I heard it. In other words, FYI some people's configs are definitely reliant on the current precedence order. In any case, while the sequence *could* be changed for those two files, I don't think there's any notable benefit to doing so? Even ignoring cases like the one above, that change would undoubtedly cause some confusion for no good reason. -Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 09:08:32 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 13:08:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51122 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m17I0-0006H6-HN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 09:08:32 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f54.google.com ([209.85.221.54]:33435) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m17Hx-0006Gp-9k for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 09:08:31 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f54.google.com with SMTP id d2so3063861wrn.0 for <49424@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 06:08:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NZ/HBBvRePwpK39Fmt2U3TBzPtrnUBHDelvngxeC5xA=; b=dzlVlakN/d0S6igDPu50U6ApoyDOb/IIKLLBV8WrRDdPoMtnKdOkp3xU16+KwmHxaW CuuLGvvJvDFlE6nHQ4pMgBIUrQCrQiJwtXv068cL7G0P/o8yJjUSzDE0ZX1aaXGGxn4B Q0EjCBrYJVG42dW+iaLMXSG1HSGsZo6t/m6uAParMMA7WtnpRgNg1uRi5Ee3R5wAUubx JlSX02OcktAu6+bec5UGNla5uO4YZSYf5+RPwkPxR/LvLaAnWB7t+L1ZNbZmQsz7M4eb RzkaH58U2KH8FelTHSvoRitfEOB5duZllYN94spY7oVYCOn+HgAwJh06p/E2ZwzHMuln Cd4Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NZ/HBBvRePwpK39Fmt2U3TBzPtrnUBHDelvngxeC5xA=; b=Ddwd0jvcoscYwEeH62RlT7Br8vGDGZKXBXn3QNd+dHV7wU+xRcCQ2ZwsIsCZCXMZHU Iz3d7JNo25BAIlCmUup6cVzEgzS2Boxa36eo34bWBC2JLMCV7JK78ogJxW3ZINgIZJxz KXqInydhdRy3cY4VvbuxP7IavWU6d5XZEiCo7p1Mn/XcxpqGdLwt5ixGZ03Ps9ViWAic A0r0wxJ/8rUHK0dUYlkCv2ONs4qHHZ8ktSYs0xDlA1rrO7rrrkaOz2Z9G9DAt8E/uNt4 jSChvoL7Yh3q5BhIf4qYJNcgbBgutf6FPo7NonbM50qZRdWicntDVYwTB6flkhVpnHIz FSaA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530q7YD5toYW9OdPu7BnxvZ+XKNB86LvO/4roI0eSL/5yVzl3tT4 KPFEq2xigp0KLOWlksTIWdbRVSTIDb8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyseSx3nwXc0gpfjhl/rcPozZ36lo8dCZC/hPxn7MHr49rtBsICtvLK23ZZ5ty8L35bcUIWXA== X-Received: by 2002:adf:dc8b:: with SMTP id r11mr28493542wrj.363.1625663303118; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 06:08:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rltb ([82.66.8.55]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l2sm18700673wms.20.2021.07.07.06.08.21 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 07 Jul 2021 06:08:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Phil Sainty Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:08:21 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Phil Sainty's message of "Thu, 08 Jul 2021 00:24:22 +1200") Message-ID: <87sg0qb7ay.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Peter Oliver , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Thu, 08 Jul 2021 00:24:22 +1200, Phil Sainty said: Phil> On 2021-07-07 21:17, Robert Pluim wrote: >> If nothing exists, Emacs will create ~/.emacs.d, and use ~/.emacs as >> as the init file. We can change that to use ~/.emacs.d/init.el if we >> want, people who already have init files will not be affected. >> Phil> I know of people who have ~/.emacs.d under version control (used = on Phil> multiple machines), and on some machines additionally have a ~/.e= macs Phil> file for config which is local to that particular machine. The .= emacs Phil> file simply loads the init.el file. That=CA=BCs a different branch of the startup logic :-) If we change things so that ~/.emacs.d/init.el is used only if there is no .emacs, they would not be affected. I think this is already the case, but I may be misremembering Phil> There are other ways of achieving the same thing; but I thought t= his Phil> one was quite a neat approach when I heard it. Phil> In other words, FYI some people's configs are definitely reliant = on Phil> the current precedence order. Phil> In any case, while the sequence *could* be changed for those two Phil> files, I don't think there's any notable benefit to doing so? Ev= en Phil> ignoring cases like the one above, that change would undoubtedly Phil> cause some confusion for no good reason. I=CA=BCm not proposing changing the sequence, only what happens in the case where there are no init files at all. It would eliminate the 'why is emacs creating .emacs.d but then not using it' confusion. Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 09:10:36 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 13:10:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51128 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m17K0-0006L9-0S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 09:10:36 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f54.google.com ([209.85.128.54]:37641) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m17Jv-0006Kj-5u for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 09:10:34 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f54.google.com with SMTP id y21-20020a7bc1950000b02902161fccabf1so972168wmi.2 for <49424@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 06:10:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=1A8uyEXKVqbrzL7Hy4i+ZdlBkmvoJXCYlFciz08swH0=; b=SnAD01wocBQfaKzo5RGoug3F88Zo9vyR1Bh71AGwYsy6VMqA9NLMclRU6YtjpZvj25 cQlZlDE/m7n70gtSzvxTUStMRcWBK55HVszbqcH4gPSxPMNWyn9MITEk1fuRFcVtSgh7 HFxvjHUKRit/gJe8Hqqgzw2jgh8Cj/hTbV9ZRgF2fvZB1Utl/gATUsHZAK//Rf3vrZnp u6lQf+afx1cwgwOYw57aSkpCXlOgGMAw3vJ6KXFA9ftKESFo2DMTxtUFTrXKZiLnvR1W rAsUY3Fc3D4eDy4i1m0gmsY60MxygJ2b2skWSFg2Y9W/NcMK9LMzJnX0Xb7t8JEguj4M TCmQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=1A8uyEXKVqbrzL7Hy4i+ZdlBkmvoJXCYlFciz08swH0=; b=JyOZ9tsNmcdPtRE602IZrpvfEPey6W/slNjQtfP/nVYZIqE7ZXnsZH7hj8JSma1E2C Uiv6xQA8P5k3Oo/naZj0/OTt9fxGL+kXNVJ44mhvzWZuVgOP+vg2Qe1OFF0e5WYLa0k6 4cuySKVzjE/+2QASjgXyB8D2CsHsOb5YaioYgdbB5ygVvQvXpMlhwtyf93OFVmojd3Wk g44TPeE0JENKVgfQJMzNPKqGI4vxlOBws62n6DKQf/mJrMb8TnPJBNJslnjUD/kBM+rd m8mo0oqa+ieC52YBJAcPjQ3axtEdMMf8g9Ceu22MeDZGvSIiSDJKXmHUINtvcC4T0jA/ XhwA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531EzfaZgmSNXAzz/hrN05ZNAHvrw+bW0KYX4//acDNpXStx8Jhz n6EwUN436k9NCAC5jl/UKsFt//rOxKk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxbexrTUVgwcpMAJoiiz8Fux2nXmjmo8nVkTtjhnQeFJcgxspjRU/pOGr63n068y/nLhlLOug== X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c002:: with SMTP id c2mr26663630wmb.118.1625663425265; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 06:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rltb ([82.66.8.55]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e8sm20499797wrq.10.2021.07.07.06.10.24 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 07 Jul 2021 06:10:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Rudolf Schlatte Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:10:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Rudolf Schlatte's message of "Wed, 07 Jul 2021 13:28:30 +0200") Message-ID: <87o8beb77j.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: 49424@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Wed, 07 Jul 2021 13:28:30 +0200, Rudolf Schlatte said: Rudolf> Robert Pluim writes: >> Emacs will prefer the XDG path if it exists and .emacs.d/init.el and >> .emacs don=CA=BCt. Similarly Emacs will prefer .emacs.d/init.el if it >> exists and .emacs doesn=CA=BCt. Rudolf> I wonder if it would make sense to warn during startup if more = than one Rudolf> of these files exist, something like: "Warning: multiple init f= iles Rudolf> detected. Using ~/.emacs as init file, ignoring ~/.emacs.d/ini= t.el" A warning prominent enough for people to notice would also be annoying enough that people would complain about us changing the status quo out from under them. The best we could do is putting something in *Messages*, I suspect Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 10:11:51 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 14:11:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53152 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m18HG-0008Rm-P6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:11:51 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:56087) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m18HE-0008RU-Dk for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:11:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1625667094; bh=hb1MBdHMr/mI4gtf6KGJr4OmHMijBX2fFZ3pLtgc4U0=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=N1ANVhP0+swBEiyXeL6gCcmSCIJnS6m1xGAe4UNXjRgS67HuaiTLKHunmMIXDmW30 pNOdSz0dMZzVqmmHQoexzasy6pSaZ0VJQZh/Ow+o4GkOUpVFR5QfyJPNSFnLma78+T pLufwNpiZpbYAdzhyPsrqttuiw4bnIRFFeybcLYs= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from strobelfs ([84.61.246.23]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MTAFb-1lc9BB0ylT-00UXC1; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:11:34 +0200 From: Stephen Berman To: Robert Pluim Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <87sg0qb7ay.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:11:32 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87sg0qb7ay.fsf@gmail.com> (Robert Pluim's message of "Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:08:21 +0200") Message-ID: <871r8a43jf.fsf@gmx.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:foDaRBWISWl+MD9yeKZBaxePoJVzZu/HCD/v0ime0ZvZN7DHtx4 D/EJJk2qDFKBsy48AitYt/A+y7u39dO097vpgsSqm8dyF1mje+F1ENqfs69S1hNA0KWEnZz 40JnjKn1KX2aMFUjHRBzlR0YWNUELAF6/Xx+cFuPTh3rJENhfJt5xqyeRuJ8Q8FyPhDtuPk 9AwUPgRjW/wcqTv4A1hYQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:huJbMR8tbIg=:xBcxDSAmMlAv8zHdY1Jdur 6Yb0lNq6Ba+oKa9yDjMBuvG6j+sgjThfPoUmNhd/C/w/lwySMrRhy+yRSEi/+60Esp5sq1CVf Mx41lMXVA5y8/xG0oQXGJZfmyLMZVbJPyLm4h8bJWN/EYfbOn8B7w0icMtqqAu78ezQYjCzoo NzHsxerKmv+DaOnoLTdIoGn8vjhyUdDDmpGMvO3jIO0y9ONhJOwUNsAQlW5Ya52+UORV18Uoo xTVsLGapoQozTCvk/M114eseyywrzeIdHfu/GdkcxmJM3wphl8keRPR13G75zwRXvacbJXTIL iQVSnB+803Ml2uM4ezU+mvH8cjX63yMqgCRP3VNPdQwCSrF2pEkZFPEVGomFsWcKzXkLXkLZc sDCp4GpfgDDWv5+ZQO5T5+N8NcgwlaOJuuB0aIFi5+DDmOpnW2Z1xfU9IGDH+xwVJ7KfLIrub FyRlz6H+K1P2YRvbidGtrog3IRc+LxFFIQVStsLHx3csiGgUaR74Ni+ZWVGPVkonqsOTrSiS3 R/n3qhcXcMSXKeoiZgcXVZbypO51b5qyBJpSsDfCaOmS2LmP9zwYLsMcdsQL/znUOfWFp+xni 6tQNtrREg2Tyy//rxYgOI2mrGZUthUocPcLEfy71BjG75O6yKahiDTIjcweTG2OGEMPFe2owM 3H3kAXNqNIRyak/DnWyqT5dTC1Mf00frLmA9BcrqHLE5vuGB8ZG4UdIXHSxy3d6/XiIuB9Saa meN8uEX5NXJQNROA+kY9VELIadJj8SZzkeBJsQVMBlez9izhQ5G3YeVA3Z90HAcqWgO07IxtV zR51F/99jdsoxBSNiKGo7OyWGWPk4vBS6pUKLz06chrqrC2wXizV13V+9tdFGlGubmhL84fvf HxFT5drrjqXOhaLZYPlt+k2IlBS6y7SBh9fWii+f4tMnBBGTmtrWBmQ2OhILwtAc+qykio8My QeJxYJ3ElOnKUi08+2hmUEQ/S7pLDu9IPnmv0lDtV+j7Xli64iy4A2bsV+izCgDD/9x/uLe9A cC3I3Y96KPqnVkYXlz9voKHlBtQcaXpbLj6B1iFF26mnltxbv8srLntK9JUDL5CXAfEOjY83A 9Fw9+2KX2xA1YpF1ZXcqL8Xlp3vZU3Wotqp9aMTQ9NO8qe/jqc5y3HFDQ== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: Phil Sainty , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Peter Oliver , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:08:21 +0200 Robert Pluim wrote: >>>>>> On Thu, 08 Jul 2021 00:24:22 +1200, Phil Sainty said: > > Phil> On 2021-07-07 21:17, Robert Pluim wrote: > >> If nothing exists, Emacs will create ~/.emacs.d, and use ~/.emacs = as > >> as the init file. We can change that to use ~/.emacs.d/init.el if = we > >> want, people who already have init files will not be affected. > >> > > Phil> I know of people who have ~/.emacs.d under version control (use= d on > Phil> multiple machines), and on some machines additionally have a ~/= .emacs > Phil> file for config which is local to that particular machine. The= .emacs > Phil> file simply loads the init.el file. > > That=CA=BCs a different branch of the startup logic :-) > > If we change things so that ~/.emacs.d/init.el is used only if there > is no .emacs, they would not be affected. I think this is already > the case, but I may be misremembering > > Phil> There are other ways of achieving the same thing; but I thought= this > Phil> one was quite a neat approach when I heard it. > > Phil> In other words, FYI some people's configs are definitely relian= t on > Phil> the current precedence order. > > Phil> In any case, while the sequence *could* be changed for those two > Phil> files, I don't think there's any notable benefit to doing so? = Even > Phil> ignoring cases like the one above, that change would undoubtedly > Phil> cause some confusion for no good reason. > > I=CA=BCm not proposing changing the sequence, only what happens in the ca= se > where there are no init files at all. It would eliminate the 'why is > emacs creating .emacs.d but then not using it' confusion. One thing I find useful about the current way is that I can use ~/.emacs to carry out tests requiring (or facilitated by having) an init file, without having to move or otherwise disable my actual init file ~/.emacs.d/init.el. That benefit would be lost if the priority was changed (or it would require making ~/.emacs the real init file and using ~/.emacs.d/init.el for testing, which seems less appealing). Steve Berman From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 10:40:35 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 14:40:35 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53211 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m18j5-0000lh-L2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:40:35 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f54.google.com ([209.85.221.54]:46808) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m18j2-0000lT-A7 for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:40:34 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f54.google.com with SMTP id d12so2729653wre.13 for <49424@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 07:40:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Tnjzh+E9sqiQuMs0Dl+qpkCY8G3LeCgXoZ0GxsTaD2E=; b=sqZLJAe47vvNk7qG4YgmOUmCJgbHSa9XN0XCZvpdQMad7gtHSwmRbpqI2cI/U7gFJA 4MJhJk1k+jYH1DnrCarMcCp+rD20TAzlC7ShoMHv0wlEeDbMi5GZgE/EL1Df+ZfDRCLT xAzWv0rBd6kCtWDuxMot1jHJtTkZn2txX7y8YbhcdWZAjA/bYMa8kfChjtRlHHsCChSc FRRnsexV/foNilsh/ffCz2WbfFgpLJQrgA1zOYf2M4uZ5dn4c9n/r9sOwuHftTI1AMoP r7KG1I5Ss7g4k2ruz2cPfkkxp4HL5IolDuzZufT1YLpWxqW1Op8QNXbnVWGJAXshl5j+ 3IRQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Tnjzh+E9sqiQuMs0Dl+qpkCY8G3LeCgXoZ0GxsTaD2E=; b=hs9LZzr8CsYyDCuz1AAIWzAlFmlBpVhcWgOtp5ODQJLa0vBCe+52PL1RNw+rv9S1Ww bhByQLNGZP0JMoMQz37GttadTiACy/iuCu9XnCD1s6N3bO6EyWMlWITIVORwfG6QulkU wSkleYNM/GB3prIkv/3eJcCapk0CSob2Hq/Yp08PQ+AzY31qbgGyh7TZ7p3fo9bb8rYe OpJMgugd1TL7L3nt4CTE0ydKuLbB1E0n7zfXaaUb8zrFsAzJ0CzIvCOqRXxxwRUTaUM2 GHUTu8YXFlec6lgSVM5l3mEybV4Aw31z3kJCRCt2kGH0l+0fjlnfA3r/90wW4z36BCHB u+3g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5331M/ORDxEI1VAFCUSzOfT95Jb+BgXzgJHy/8/Rjk9DlDIHei24 kyXq/wkAMxalKKgbxWWU0fR1vzDfOFQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwrhARdmf4HRAzZYPLc9nC4sNMLu4HAYoiTwn/Vf+y/gHZvELvEinFvwZLcWoGnJ3SITtwABw== X-Received: by 2002:adf:ff8b:: with SMTP id j11mr28572930wrr.326.1625668826068; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 07:40:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rltb ([82.66.8.55]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o14sm1258115wmq.31.2021.07.07.07.40.24 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 07 Jul 2021 07:40:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Stephen Berman Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <87sg0qb7ay.fsf@gmail.com> <871r8a43jf.fsf@gmx.net> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:40:24 +0200 In-Reply-To: <871r8a43jf.fsf@gmx.net> (Stephen Berman's message of "Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:11:32 +0200") Message-ID: <87k0m2b31j.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: Phil Sainty , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Peter Oliver , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:11:32 +0200, Stephen Berman said: Stephen> One thing I find useful about the current way is that I can us= e ~/.emacs Stephen> to carry out tests requiring (or facilitated by having) an ini= t file, Stephen> without having to move or otherwise disable my actual init file Stephen> ~/.emacs.d/init.el. That benefit would be lost if the priorit= y was Stephen> changed (or it would require making ~/.emacs the real init fil= e and Stephen> using ~/.emacs.d/init.el for testing, which seems less appeali= ng). Instead of 'no init files' -> .emacs, we=CA=BCd have 'no init files' -> ~/.emacs.d/init.el That would not affect the existing search logic, which currently prefers .emacs to ~/.emacs.d/init.el if it finds .emacs Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 12:21:44 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 16:21:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53320 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1AIy-0003R9-0N for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 12:21:44 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:42347) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1AIw-0003Qu-F0 for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 12:21:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1625674889; bh=WdLGyJC4HI8pzafVwFDeK6mYMaOpgr5NuKF/M9RTrMI=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=FOuoVhjv//kQr0OVATxlGmJCrqOKT3sEaqtmwZCIS5abWUS/pBvnUqw/oQc8TIVPl r+gGcRr5w6MtJ8E+ZNbIq3SlbXM9US+/B7Sqzuyc+DXSRQxFuZvVFE18O2ZjKcng5J 3JQVYFJALnKjNXL0uUcUlFjNR1jyZXmlDzAkJh8U= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from strobelfs ([84.61.246.23]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MVNAr-1lZuHu10tT-00SNcJ; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 18:21:29 +0200 From: Stephen Berman To: Robert Pluim Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <87sg0qb7ay.fsf@gmail.com> <871r8a43jf.fsf@gmx.net> <87k0m2b31j.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 18:21:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87k0m2b31j.fsf@gmail.com> (Robert Pluim's message of "Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:40:24 +0200") Message-ID: <87wnq22iyg.fsf@gmx.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:rl/zrgJBDoe16jKcMOBvFmMmT5xoGsPFL7DESydhIhyCeHn0L/a uVFmfjjcLfF5XyEsb6kjKmeUwsLXvyl8urQUiyRpNh/PkEjx2hM3Xn/ZkyY6Fsi+2u9PS3R JO12IA0uPJKL06YGrpF181HRulHjaJHH/Wr0Pioxv0qKzHHks9faFbd+GlaG7xzy2dAK8/5 xEnNAfCa1E4AilVERskoQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:+YIvY/sFJhg=:82dO/z1n0T9OnSiF/ymhPh t7Vsp4q82CfEO/KcKfFaq1iE60yB+Cj1JxjbGnbIcacaDy2SDhKPzpnzHkLIyvEQ2jbhVXDWI tq9B53RfwiL6hAHYzWgKFxej3fdylzjlA5eRskFaCepnPFwpCb4ZM4fVNfPYCw62Kb6JylsDV ZeGz8y9Z7g5unOtFDy5uNEs31AypQZV0DLSHOy0gJEr2A9GG/0HhsW+pxt56pvKFCny6lJeII 51Nl/nDo5CQvgLGFxxaklI4n7ZcTIVzyaBuzx3jhVnpN82LnTOtXrNMCBEwvS2zZ4DkOx99QL aSe6p4KVt7YBZBsbVYA1QAH6ZSJIOVdvoGCFC4PQrCDCbwV0leUjYHQU8DuqWwA5p18gO5ZNj /ESDPqi/4LfQxA1BPTCZWob+PZ1uYkaftBQKyJ1sY/egee8GawKVHjoUoElfEwksvBIE5rzgA pJ5Alz2SwlTki+Wv+MJYbpF2KVWM1m+oU3HTMrhj3wtMB7eKM9rwwIc5kQVwkMf0hoOkTLl9t Cf+rVaXHRr0B0VsEgVHCazCTNgLF3aLgfv0q//TjdTZemuaOy1wD1ZlmYbWGNZuCdMHep1F8j Yi9wts2gA7LnDNCcITSnLMD8Li+ejWEEc0mGHjNvNPo8Z1y9Nww54I0+2kz7GxG1zGwTLTeBj mS/GWRjM9ubbmlgLGMDbTRIJXL8nqqLsSpEnF8UJKMoyLHsbOTsdh30Bi65by/6CeIIjFn8FP vyF5YNdkqz3fZKilduzdIP3oWEgUGMkAfexZILpq4v3uuzae14C1FPiecF7uYUYKPL9XYAMCM rAOyzEY2tmjuzVV9i/SxeMT3+t1tSVrBjrG0h2QarDu8rcA7tJPGLHaqERYP/nYtrvW0QANG+ ycN6xWmEn9VkBPQ/KU5zy/3FRJY8zFrPwM8SXNyK9z4csD8d/K0enPXseXNuHOJOW8XwyObu9 0HcY5xchG5mCeas84IHvn8DnplcSpW/vCGkfrH+ASfYyYgp2VV9UynqT81O9IURJuAjAHC/Rr xwg878YenAhPMA3G5eCJy95/5yaJ+rOH3Uf8XYNzjjV/frtWDh0mk/NCNSbgyPBPYKLIZIDzD 3qRiEQaGyEq3N0yDFJWhYdVS8PzRMnGFXJeWAYYZRAj4iH/ERWITLwBxg== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: Phil Sainty , Lars Ingebrigtsen , Peter Oliver , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:40:24 +0200 Robert Pluim wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:11:32 +0200, Stephen Berman > said: > > Stephen> One thing I find useful about the current way is that I can = use ~/.emacs > Stephen> to carry out tests requiring (or facilitated by having) an i= nit file, > Stephen> without having to move or otherwise disable my actual init f= ile > Stephen> ~/.emacs.d/init.el. That benefit would be lost if the prior= ity was > Stephen> changed (or it would require making ~/.emacs the real init f= ile and > Stephen> using ~/.emacs.d/init.el for testing, which seems less appea= ling). > > Instead of 'no init files' -> .emacs, we=CA=BCd have 'no init files' -> > ~/.emacs.d/init.el > > That would not affect the existing search logic, which currently > prefers .emacs to ~/.emacs.d/init.el if it finds .emacs Ah, right. Then it's fine by me :-) Steve Berman From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 12:33:48 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 16:33:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53329 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1AUe-0003no-Av for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 12:33:48 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:50560) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1AUb-0003nc-GD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 12:33:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58336) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m1AUa-0002Ib-23 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 12:33:45 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:38420) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m1AUX-0000pU-No for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 12:33:43 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m1AUW-000A4i-9F for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 18:33:40 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Rudolf Schlatte Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 18:33:31 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <87o8beb77j.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:TPf6xA/RaLc/CCzd1pvF2CWwEXk= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) Robert Pluim writes: >>>>>> On Wed, 07 Jul 2021 13:28:30 +0200, Rudolf Schlatte said: > > Rudolf> Robert Pluim writes: > > >> Emacs will prefer the XDG path if it exists and .emacs.d/init.el and > >> .emacs donʼt. Similarly Emacs will prefer .emacs.d/init.el if it > >> exists and .emacs doesnʼt. > > Rudolf> I wonder if it would make sense to warn during startup if more than one > Rudolf> of these files exist, something like: "Warning: multiple init files > Rudolf> detected. Using ~/.emacs as init file, ignoring ~/.emacs.d/init.el" > > A warning prominent enough for people to notice would also be annoying > enough that people would complain about us changing the status quo out > from under them. The best we could do is putting something in > *Messages*, I suspect A line in *Messages* was what I was thinking of, yes. Maybe conditional on a variable in case it turns out annoying for people who have shadowed init files on purpose and want to keep their *Messages* buffer clean. Or maybe a command `list-init-file-shadows' analogous to the existing `list-load-path-shadows'. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 13:59:09 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 17:59:09 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53401 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1BpF-0005yc-0O for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 13:59:09 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f51.google.com ([209.85.221.51]:37460) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1BpD-0005y6-1B for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 13:59:08 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f51.google.com with SMTP id i94so4071461wri.4 for <49424@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:59:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mavit.org.uk; s=google; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references :mime-version; bh=16RfPru5dAJsQjIT6iTvSbmK6UI8RfXbHHN3JvLgFHU=; b=Q2pox6dhRY4ygUvuyYI/rKIWHlEnq9cBZDlcneJ6E6qwhicAlC9mPkLINdOIR8gxr3 2aCwQtTuvZtAvpCnVemZzPMbsUHGcXzplPSCMkQ+fNqnZpTul/R+Y+H27mickivVi1BW i6n3MuGK0o7H432AyrvzWTdszPmsdgSXS+MYQ= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id :references:mime-version; bh=16RfPru5dAJsQjIT6iTvSbmK6UI8RfXbHHN3JvLgFHU=; b=dOz0BEPGUGnsWAs6Edr+1a0dKy9AqZA8NWhVo8wY0xYK8JW1IpC+aaq+Oeqz+BS0g4 Q304TAvgvEt6uESdRSXlDSmtvEnSrcKZ7ex4FT4LSfMGuVvFEOKC5AYq8j+mR49Q5mNE qLwoJaX0blYwc7jghg31Q8TgNBrcfC+b63DF+lc8I3KHLY1ez6hi7v3k6fKzWvhcZD1E xAefW5gPJAtAfXkzqD1hGbm5l4W+L2NvO2kO6OUZslQhM2y53S9y+36mn1SBrFGlhDBZ Ya6ZohmDTWE/KwtvKCcU0bfIc55hRBKg99h7CshLPVtJ8EBY0MXdZpXCqMRbB4AL5qV2 coFw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531W0ntwSKG+0J1KV2MSxbyDW/sd0Tb6oLlF/k+1tyYkeOcAMti2 SK9+PdIsurD/zYdqGGRk03XI1g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz6+TE2ndBjd2oGU0GTQRDB1e3/k34htEG6XlpBD2qWCy/r0jjT79cYu9swwyDT92f04y9erw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:259:: with SMTP id m25mr793181wrz.230.1625680741098; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:59:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (cpc118948-dudl14-2-0-cust32.16-1.cable.virginm.net. [82.37.201.33]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h21sm19097907wmq.38.2021.07.07.10.59.00 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 07 Jul 2021 10:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 167Hwxw9044107 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 7 Jul 2021 18:58:59 +0100 Received: from localhost (mavit@localhost) by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) with ESMTP id 167HwvUT044104; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 18:58:58 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: froglet.home.mavit.org.uk: mavit owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 18:58:57 +0100 (BST) From: Peter Oliver To: Robert Pluim Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file In-Reply-To: <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="-1463811583-1881518746-1625680739=:8200" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---1463811583-1881518746-1625680739=:8200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Wed, 7 Jul 2021, Robert Pluim wrote: > If nothing exists, Emacs will create ~/.emacs.d, and use ~/.emacs as > the init file. We can change that to use ~/.emacs.d/init.el if we > want, people who already have init files will not be affected. Sounds good to me. If we’re making a change, here, it may be worth going all the way: create $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/emacs if it and ~/.emacs.d don’t exist, and hence use $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/emacs/init.el when creating a new initialisation file. -- Peter Oliver ---1463811583-1881518746-1625680739=:8200-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 14:12:14 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 18:12:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53420 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1C1t-0006Jk-Qw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:12:14 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f41.google.com ([209.85.221.41]:37761) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1C1r-0006JX-7e for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:12:12 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f41.google.com with SMTP id i94so4119064wri.4 for <49424@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 11:12:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mavit.org.uk; s=google; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references :mime-version; bh=3A7tkOVX48j8UKFovmHRd4iNRNqTJz3ZHeJYHoyzpr4=; b=KBuq+sYP2G4VzmFlzkg/6x5WC+fk/M0bNgWCIYxf2hgFNIq/DXoHFo/MYUnHr5Vx09 lta+a088Cr4K150lAn5qbqTSQg/NyVkcMLMxllGHwie1SUhyNFCi733tDOTVj+pzwqzz VAFkzqrJ/tqCyH/Zbh1Ff3ZpBSsvEwRa0ryH0= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id :references:mime-version; bh=3A7tkOVX48j8UKFovmHRd4iNRNqTJz3ZHeJYHoyzpr4=; b=Tp54qBgAMomBi/5bXrrxdFX8SacXAuiZyiaUaSJtB1n1YCRbocpeZm4M3fDxee5wT5 fYTVtqchuo2iWmur9TfLsNBgvozlx8BD2NOX2cBps2q94ASxXCgagX4mQIKBfPMtRaun +hjA2i3PPJMpAaNMkTlCQPqIe7Dh3wZcckmnGlii1k7ybNr2lMqydpXillK6J5+PgLeG Idt8UpkuiOd3xt4jVaslc9B4JhPQkOGf1BrImCq0HGHsrpt00Y0Op5L8qTT9F+t8Kpgy sWcNLKquIyKkl6tylZ7deK4toQ8dAu34eVw9YF1xW4BHjqr/GEKrSHSPocavURwMISQl esyg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533qmuaj+0IPojm9AUMiTAODWwgOvgEdiN5PkcjYsLkVMTa2TS/7 P3uWGB9ja0N8uajNifbgfLJ3hQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxK7b/xmWcNxN9tXqKd1IT/4+wFi4x1N9Zk/Cy2uAy3E6YYMD/BH/KpqJq+oeoFCzZ6iM2Rjg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:1361:: with SMTP id q1mr28879947wrz.179.1625681525526; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 11:12:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (cpc118948-dudl14-2-0-cust32.16-1.cable.virginm.net. [82.37.201.33]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x187sm11524679wmb.47.2021.07.07.11.12.04 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 07 Jul 2021 11:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 167IC37B045198 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 7 Jul 2021 19:12:03 +0100 Received: from localhost (mavit@localhost) by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) with ESMTP id 167IC3xf045195; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 19:12:03 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: froglet.home.mavit.org.uk: mavit owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 19:12:03 +0100 (BST) From: Peter Oliver To: Robert Pluim Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file In-Reply-To: <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="-1463811583-1741092187-1625681523=:8200" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---1463811583-1741092187-1625681523=:8200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Wed, 7 Jul 2021, Robert Pluim wrote: > > Peter Oliver writes: > >> The info page “49.4.4 How Emacs Finds Your Init File” says: > >> > >>> For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just > >>> the current default location ‘~/.emacs.d/init.el’ for the init file. > >> > >> However, this seems to be inaccurate: if I start Emacs as a new user > >> and make a customisation, that customisation is written to ~/.emacs. > > Yes, we should change that to say '~/.emacs' Here’s a patch to do that. -- Peter Oliver ---1463811583-1741092187-1625681523=:8200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name=0001-Document-init-file-with-the-highest-precedence-as-.e.patch Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: <2991a472-c3c2-e441-5caf-b651634fa9f5@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> Content-Description: Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-Document-init-file-with-the-highest-precedence-as-.e.patch RnJvbSBlMGE5NWVhN2EwNDhjNTA1ODIwODI5ZDhlMTBmMGFkZGYyY2M2YzRh IE1vbiBTZXAgMTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQ0KRnJvbTogUGV0ZXIgT2xpdmVy IDxnaXRAbWF2aXQub3JnLnVrPg0KRGF0ZTogV2VkLCA3IEp1bCAyMDIxIDE5 OjA5OjU4ICswMTAwDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBbUEFUQ0hdIERvY3VtZW50IGluaXQg ZmlsZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBoaWdoZXN0IHByZWNlZGVuY2UgYXMgfi8uZW1hY3MN Cg0KKiBkb2MvZW1hY3MvY3VzdG9tLnRleGk6IERlZmF1bHQgbG9jYXRpb24g b2YgaW5pdCBmaWxlIGlzIH4vLmVtYWNzDQooYnVnIzQ5NDI0KS4NCi0tLQ0K IGRvYy9lbWFjcy9jdXN0b20udGV4aSB8IDIgKy0NCiAxIGZpbGUgY2hhbmdl ZCwgMSBpbnNlcnRpb24oKyksIDEgZGVsZXRpb24oLSkNCg0KZGlmZiAtLWdp dCBhL2RvYy9lbWFjcy9jdXN0b20udGV4aSBiL2RvYy9lbWFjcy9jdXN0b20u dGV4aQ0KaW5kZXggZGU1ZDgyNTI0OC4uNzA4MzQ5ZTgzMyAxMDA2NDQNCi0t LSBhL2RvYy9lbWFjcy9jdXN0b20udGV4aQ0KKysrIGIvZG9jL2VtYWNzL2N1 c3RvbS50ZXhpDQpAQCAtMjcxMyw3ICsyNzEzLDcgQEAgRmluZCBJbml0DQog bmFtZSBpbiB0aGUgc3lzdGVtJ3MgZGF0YSBiYXNlIG9mIHVzZXJzLg0KIA0K ICAgRm9yIGJyZXZpdHkgdGhlIHJlc3Qgb2YgdGhlIEVtYWNzIGRvY3VtZW50 YXRpb24gZ2VuZXJhbGx5IHVzZXMganVzdA0KLXRoZSBjdXJyZW50IGRlZmF1 bHQgbG9jYXRpb24gQGZpbGV7fi8uZW1hY3MuZC9pbml0LmVsfSBmb3IgdGhl DQordGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgZGVmYXVsdCBsb2NhdGlvbiBAZmlsZXt+Ly5lbWFj c30gZm9yIHRoZQ0KIGluaXQgZmlsZS4NCiBAYyAgTG9jYWxXb3JkczogIGJh Y2t0YWINCiANCi0tIA0KMi4zMS4xDQoNCg== ---1463811583-1741092187-1625681523=:8200-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 14:35:59 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 18:35:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53446 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1COs-0006w0-Sq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:35:59 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35420) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1COo-0006vi-A5 for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:35:57 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:41646) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m1COi-0007cu-OG; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:35:48 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2954 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m1COi-0000TN-9e; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:35:48 -0400 Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 21:36:01 +0300 Message-Id: <831r8aezu6.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Peter Oliver In-Reply-To: <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> (message from Peter Oliver on Wed, 7 Jul 2021 19:12:03 +0100 (BST)) Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 19:12:03 +0100 (BST) > From: Peter Oliver > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Yes, we should change that to say '~/.emacs' > > Here’s a patch to do that. > > -- > Peter Oliver > > From e0a95ea7a048c505820829d8e10f0addf2cc6c4a Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 > From: Peter Oliver > Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 19:09:58 +0100 > Subject: [PATCH] Document init file with the highest precedence as ~/.emacs > > * doc/emacs/custom.texi: Default location of init file is ~/.emacs > (bug#49424). > --- > doc/emacs/custom.texi | 2 +- > 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) > > diff --git a/doc/emacs/custom.texi b/doc/emacs/custom.texi > index de5d825248..708349e833 100644 > --- a/doc/emacs/custom.texi > +++ b/doc/emacs/custom.texi > @@ -2713,7 +2713,7 @@ Find Init > name in the system's data base of users. > > For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just > -the current default location @file{~/.emacs.d/init.el} for the > +the current default location @file{~/.emacs} for the > init file. Thanks, but this is still inaccurate. Can we please change the documentation so that it tells the whole story? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 15:08:32 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 19:08:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53528 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1CuO-0007y2-A3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:08:32 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f44.google.com ([209.85.128.44]:37613) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1CuL-0007xn-KZ for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:08:30 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f44.google.com with SMTP id y21-20020a7bc1950000b02902161fccabf1so1845038wmi.2 for <49424@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 12:08:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mavit.org.uk; s=google; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references :mime-version; bh=gEoLF13Yau4U/yOpNaXoRDcB4BieSGYwq0kcVsnGJ94=; b=Wls+2bUp9Y1AvJpsUcRlA7Y7PfUawaz9ANV3kkAsLwVRY631uHAZJwFRKJuQF5YDNy VLlJknwQQpAdEdNxozsqGOtMwore7pmyXTIeYFa9fNyB3NDnplab3i1oW48vmeZrVuI7 QbQOS0bZWM1/XbNZH5RJDVo8tNLKRYkP/SRXw= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id :references:mime-version; bh=gEoLF13Yau4U/yOpNaXoRDcB4BieSGYwq0kcVsnGJ94=; b=CsRbqOqo9b5APSoTC5pOQ05X2C4Hpt6ySLJTg9I83cFb5WEPVIJP3vnQa44dRNazvr 8qcV80KFQyIM20Allhn6kBLnEOU1xHI6eU+PnPBb6/O4KorCzNbMT5xSRHVHLTJwYNBu n9w35L5uqkblZizxkp8Lr1SNwZUiZvrgBfk6SwVY/Gsj+bGh2jOXVbnvSCSbZEMMgCVH xCRqIEfQ/L6MvmHUjO/7o6zAFcej/OycgFRrAaDfsUJHE97/6q8BwCdaeUEczCBv009x 9Eil2nMUGxNoJMCMoJwUiDhAeULu8eQ3vlyZMdcOzFIfOV5GXkm/J6ugQ50LF8KPeTkS qr8w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53296XLXmkJwrW1JozEnvKiB9KTVlVg1QrJbDTav1NwgkqzdxUPu XUtwB5Ta3n7TXGeowYd45KbqaA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzimm+B1YG3ABpzBRpDudWLujgA1tTEZYzYQm8WRt6/c0tgMMHqfpp7C93dC0Y1FKcAUMUf9g== X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c1c6:: with SMTP id a6mr29165327wmj.159.1625684903537; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 12:08:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (cpc118948-dudl14-2-0-cust32.16-1.cable.virginm.net. [82.37.201.33]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d186sm7451484wmd.14.2021.07.07.12.08.22 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 07 Jul 2021 12:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 167J8LEl063733 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 7 Jul 2021 20:08:22 +0100 Received: from localhost (mavit@localhost) by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) with ESMTP id 167J8KIr063727; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 20:08:21 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: froglet.home.mavit.org.uk: mavit owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 20:08:20 +0100 (BST) From: Peter Oliver To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file In-Reply-To: <831r8aezu6.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <831r8aezu6.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Wed, 7 Jul 2021, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Peter Oliver >> For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just >> -the current default location @file{~/.emacs.d/init.el} for the >> +the current default location @file{~/.emacs} for the >> init file. > > Thanks, but this is still inaccurate. Can we please change the > documentation so that it tells the whole story? What do we think is wrong or missing? In the context of the rest of that page, I admit it looks okay to me. -- Peter Oliver From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 15:27:38 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 19:27:38 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53541 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1DCs-0002BH-F1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:27:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45986) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1DCp-0002At-TY for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:27:36 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:43098) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m1DCk-0006gZ-Ho; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:27:30 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2131 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m1DCk-0005HA-6V; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 15:27:30 -0400 Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 22:27:41 +0300 Message-Id: <83tul5exg2.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Peter Oliver In-Reply-To: <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> (message from Peter Oliver on Wed, 7 Jul 2021 20:08:20 +0100 (BST)) Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <831r8aezu6.fsf@gnu.org> <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 20:08:20 +0100 (BST) > From: Peter Oliver > cc: rpluim@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org, 49424@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just > >> -the current default location @file{~/.emacs.d/init.el} for the > >> +the current default location @file{~/.emacs} for the > >> init file. > > > > Thanks, but this is still inaccurate. Can we please change the > > documentation so that it tells the whole story? > > What do we think is wrong or missing? In the context of the rest of that page, I admit it looks okay to me. Then I don't think I understand the change at all. This sentence explains that the rest of the documentation doesn't mention the logic of finding the init file under its various names, instead using just one possible name. You changed that one name without changing the rest of the documentation -- what does that achieve? Stepping back a notch, the original report was: The info page “49.4.4 How Emacs Finds Your Init File” says: > For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just > the current default location ‘~/.emacs.d/init.el’ for the init file. However, this seems to be inaccurate: if I start Emacs as a new user and make a customisation, that customisation is written to ~/.emacs. How can a simplifying convention in a manual be "inaccurate"? And what does that convention have to do with the order and logic of how Emacs actually looks for the init file? What am I missing here? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 17:51:54 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 21:51:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53682 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1FST-0005lA-Rt for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 17:51:54 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f43.google.com ([209.85.221.43]:36780) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1FSR-0005ku-IX for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 17:51:52 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f43.google.com with SMTP id v5so4789354wrt.3 for <49424@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:51:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mavit.org.uk; s=google; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references :mime-version; bh=1S1i17x9yt/HO8HK1aK83DmbUzkRVsyLt0sUojLcYPM=; b=fR0TG2e4PwL/8v8p1Thb8Kt3a1I7SuDnUCDFMjgRtUBpNaf8z/cmLV4wOoW6xYV897 0oHObv8hUu0wm3TEym/3ALKZg0DCbWIaWEp+VpCFpDo9rexjSR83xlccn9Ar4/AlIH/X sk5OsfYBQBonB+oXkM4JWKDccnyLjrVsBZgvU= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id :references:mime-version; bh=1S1i17x9yt/HO8HK1aK83DmbUzkRVsyLt0sUojLcYPM=; b=IX5nKtZSO4pvm8X8sDZWanDgRspMmnPukudpmk6QDoNDySsDdwWL8KrTxRNAatdeq6 OOaudh38+iuQbMLb5UiDP07Y0W1zlPLqwmIQI2mkX3PoajA3mpTwcZk5H8OgXfADslOz 4XfCIApDAZa6Cl6GVoKO8XIY1Um/SJmsl7KKSQQghoTqHfvHRpU484kM+UQzclF7H87s 5E6WON5ljMAe37Wm035K883EpNl4Q1AzEgQqj+luctR3yxvfhUuDZ7vfBl0xKWjxYu8j frLBnppksU1Ylu4qV4WixLqU/yMMjUrNhRCNU5L8gyt3qH8IBW4Y13O/v8eLMbAEcQtp /4uA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5307q9io6Ahez+pwOGIKjPhxwHvihSV45D6qW4XH5uV8KvT9sdsb 220MRixuINpJ7AJTlfF+BUARtQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyCbOJKZ9X1brAgsHWt513xaXAkS/SeNezI/1WvCv9cWM6pFlPWaYqCe12xXMZkgMl2eUVCBw== X-Received: by 2002:adf:e5ce:: with SMTP id a14mr29960086wrn.226.1625694705577; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:51:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (cpc118948-dudl14-2-0-cust32.16-1.cable.virginm.net. [82.37.201.33]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o22sm50242wmc.18.2021.07.07.14.51.44 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 07 Jul 2021 14:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 167LphvJ282141 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 7 Jul 2021 22:51:43 +0100 Received: from localhost (mavit@localhost) by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) with ESMTP id 167LphaP282136; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 22:51:43 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: froglet.home.mavit.org.uk: mavit owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 22:51:43 +0100 (BST) From: Peter Oliver To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file In-Reply-To: <83tul5exg2.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <79b0205e-b8c5-d11c-5b78-812c352d755@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <831r8aezu6.fsf@gnu.org> <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83tul5exg2.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="-1463811583-274957000-1625694703=:8200" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---1463811583-274957000-1625694703=:8200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Wed, 7 Jul 2021, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > This sentence > explains that the rest of the documentation doesn't mention the logic > of finding the init file under its various names, instead using just > one possible name. You changed that one name without changing the > rest of the documentation -- what does that achieve? It turns out that the rest of the documentation already refers to ~/.emacs, not ~/.emacs.d/init.el. > Stepping back a notch, the original report was: > > The info page “49.4.4 How Emacs Finds Your Init File” says: > > > For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just > > the current default location ‘~/.emacs.d/init.el’ for the init file. > > However, this seems to be inaccurate: if I start Emacs as a new user > and make a customisation, that customisation is written to ~/.emacs. > > How can a simplifying convention in a manual be "inaccurate"? And > what does that convention have to do with the order and logic of how > Emacs actually looks for the init file? I understand the sentence to be making two assertions: 1. Throughout the documentation, “~/.emacs.d/init.el” will be used as a shorthand for “the initialisation file”, whatever filename that happens to have. 2. The default location of the initialisation file is “~/.emacs.d/init.el”. Neither is true. -- Peter Oliver ---1463811583-274957000-1625694703=:8200-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 21:06:51 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2021 01:06:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53814 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1IV9-0004Zy-Dk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 21:06:51 -0400 Received: from smtp-1.orcon.net.nz ([60.234.4.34]:37571) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1IV7-0004Zq-Ea for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 21:06:50 -0400 Received: from [10.253.37.70] (port=9377 helo=webmail.orcon.net.nz) by smtp-1.orcon.net.nz with esmtpa (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m1IV0-0004Me-Q0; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 13:06:42 +1200 Received: from ip-116-251-162-85.kinect.net.nz ([116.251.162.85]) via [10.253.37.253] by webmail.orcon.net.nz with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Thu, 08 Jul 2021 13:06:42 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 13:06:42 +1200 From: Phil Sainty To: Robert Pluim Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file In-Reply-To: <87sg0qb7ay.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <87sg0qb7ay.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: X-Sender: psainty@orcon.net.nz User-Agent: Orcon Webmail X-GeoIP: -- X-Spam_score: -2.9 X-Spam_score_int: -28 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Peter Oliver , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 2021-07-08 01:08, Robert Pluim wrote: > Iʼm not proposing changing the sequence, only what happens in the case > where there are no init files at all. It would eliminate the 'why is > emacs creating .emacs.d but then not using it' confusion. Thanks for clarifying. I agree -- that sounds sensible. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 07 21:17:29 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2021 01:17:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53835 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1IfQ-0006nP-Ry for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 21:17:29 -0400 Received: from smtp-4.orcon.net.nz ([60.234.4.59]:45859) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1IfO-0006kw-C0 for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 21:17:26 -0400 Received: from [10.253.37.70] (port=35288 helo=webmail.orcon.net.nz) by smtp-4.orcon.net.nz with esmtpa (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m1IfK-0000YB-Kf; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 13:17:22 +1200 Received: from ip-116-251-162-85.kinect.net.nz ([116.251.162.85]) via [10.253.37.253] by webmail.orcon.net.nz with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Thu, 08 Jul 2021 13:17:22 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 13:17:22 +1200 From: Phil Sainty To: Peter Oliver Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file In-Reply-To: References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: X-Sender: psainty@orcon.net.nz User-Agent: Orcon Webmail X-GeoIP: -- X-Spam_score: -2.9 X-Spam_score_int: -28 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, Robert Pluim , Lars Ingebrigtsen X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 2021-07-08 05:58, Peter Oliver wrote: > If we’re making a change, here, it may be worth going all the way: > create $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/emacs if it and ~/.emacs.d don’t exist, and > hence use $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/emacs/init.el when creating a new > initialisation file. I don't agree with doing that. The current XDG_CONFIG_HOME behaviour is opt-in, and I think it should stay that way, partly so that the default behaviour is consistent across systems, but also because I think the suggested behaviour would cause widespread confusion from users who run Emacs before creating their ~/.emacs.d directory, and then can't figure out why their new config isn't working. (IIRC that is exactly what happened with the original XDG_CONFIG_HOME support code before it was adjusted to ensure that it was opt-in behaviour, despite the fact that you needed to be running a pre-release build of Emacs to be affected and therefore likely to have a better understanding of things than the average newcomer.) -Phil From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 08 02:23:21 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2021 06:23:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54087 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1NRQ-0002KL-Tl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 02:23:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53232) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1NRO-0002K9-Vd for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 02:23:19 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:56648) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m1NRJ-0006Lp-5E; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 02:23:13 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2355 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m1NRI-00006l-P6; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 02:23:13 -0400 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 09:23:27 +0300 Message-Id: <83h7h5e334.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Peter Oliver In-Reply-To: <79b0205e-b8c5-d11c-5b78-812c352d755@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> (message from Peter Oliver on Wed, 7 Jul 2021 22:51:43 +0100 (BST)) Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <831r8aezu6.fsf@gnu.org> <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83tul5exg2.fsf@gnu.org> <79b0205e-b8c5-d11c-5b78-812c352d755@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 22:51:43 +0100 (BST) > From: Peter Oliver > cc: rpluim@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org, 49424@debbugs.gnu.org > > > The info page “49.4.4 How Emacs Finds Your Init File” says: > > > > > For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just > > > the current default location ‘~/.emacs.d/init.el’ for the init file. > > > > However, this seems to be inaccurate: if I start Emacs as a new user > > and make a customisation, that customisation is written to ~/.emacs. > > > > How can a simplifying convention in a manual be "inaccurate"? And > > what does that convention have to do with the order and logic of how > > Emacs actually looks for the init file? > > I understand the sentence to be making two assertions: > > 1. Throughout the documentation, “~/.emacs.d/init.el” will be used as a shorthand for “the initialisation file”, whatever filename that happens to have. > 2. The default location of the initialisation file is “~/.emacs.d/init.el”. > > Neither is true. The 2nd one is not what that sentence says. If the 1st one is incorrect, it should be fixed to reflect the truth. But that has nothing to do with the rest of this discussion, which is about the actual method and order Emacs uses to find the init file(s). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 08 03:23:52 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2021 07:23:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54149 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1OO0-0003pB-KG for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 03:23:52 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34046) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1ONx-0003ow-DK for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 03:23:51 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:57404) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m1ONr-0007eE-4l; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 03:23:43 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2183 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m1ONq-0007VL-L8; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 03:23:43 -0400 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 10:23:57 +0300 Message-Id: <83a6mxe0aa.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Phil Sainty In-Reply-To: (message from Phil Sainty on Thu, 08 Jul 2021 13:17:22 +1200) Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, p.d.oliver@mavit.org.uk, 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 13:17:22 +1200 > From: Phil Sainty > Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, > Robert Pluim > > On 2021-07-08 05:58, Peter Oliver wrote: > > If we’re making a change, here, it may be worth going all the way: > > create $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/emacs if it and ~/.emacs.d don’t exist, and > > hence use $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/emacs/init.el when creating a new > > initialisation file. > > I don't agree with doing that. > > The current XDG_CONFIG_HOME behaviour is opt-in, and I think it should > stay that way, partly so that the default behaviour is consistent across > systems, but also because I think the suggested behaviour would cause > widespread confusion from users who run Emacs before creating their > ~/.emacs.d directory, and then can't figure out why their new config > isn't working. (IIRC that is exactly what happened with the original > XDG_CONFIG_HOME support code before it was adjusted to ensure that it > was opt-in behaviour, despite the fact that you needed to be running > a pre-release build of Emacs to be affected and therefore likely to > have a better understanding of things than the average newcomer.) I tend to agree with Phil here. Let's leave this part of Emacs alone for a release or two, and see how the user community reacts to the changes we did just recently. Making changes right now in this sensitive area could bring more trouble, and what practical problems are we going to solve? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 08 04:30:59 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2021 08:30:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54248 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1PQx-0005VJ-D1 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 04:30:59 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f52.google.com ([209.85.221.52]:43745) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1PQu-0005V3-OZ for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 04:30:57 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f52.google.com with SMTP id a13so6413683wrf.10 for <49424@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 01:30:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pgT6lV2pQREvOTO8CM3xPBh0R0a8ra5USH+Nk8e6uK8=; b=PlwwG5ZLx3cuEGFc59NDCxpXuDr+nUDxq8xBJpX/Kf8AJh4UYWyEikO8W2wyBgQZx5 Rx20Sm595xRU6OExtIQvmhvmade6YT0u7fKhyn/Wvs2aE2wbx1kfklxfheIYabDLeCQv zgcCR6knslV1eqq5E+Ljns8cOAtcnd3nnBpytPkGS/B93ahF1RA9hwEzH/XV93fw5IeH GB2thmkNQyCVQMoTHYut8U0fewk7v8NPyBFErFbGhJmiDKmbHKK3PAn7yNBg8eAA+e6Y 5Ac5EVqjOGPoyX+N5ZurC42sj1C6uXH/MJ8y2hCcr7WzEGwntvLRBb1uMkMbCrYaI93g Z5eg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pgT6lV2pQREvOTO8CM3xPBh0R0a8ra5USH+Nk8e6uK8=; b=nHx362+hCJVnIXhUKmYwZNUi9B6mltkkLhHT7REBjHyn2BDjJcj644yCww/a8W4BA4 BGoBszX1/m7PSmpBcxW1YibSn9Muzz1kWIhER3NDwGIijlUM3gX7z+/fuPwHSFyXCSh+ x2znAt79vWi4cZq4kiurklr6P6sq8XOzefNw6vxUI32NFQ/oMliRMenOUyTT0q8h3cS+ 1ARw6IcaVE/tn8/NqF8dDalf02jjng1vHToah0rpImqqTQ7RSssLHW+/SGStH7ZBgPB8 6rOvv9ZK2Xuk1Db85PohL51C0Cu2e4tKDPdqsX8CoRLrH7FKceQmxwPShxXpc0acvhYK WebA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531I6J61pht4Z4u9Ctq69F1trqeSEfG198e9LEFNB4CplCag6mUu JVzO2XdUtYaWRlp2YQDFrgnITXUjfW8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyFtx9ms5+zBHqZfb2asprYc3QRwbAOf0/PzXBvwoU7996Pw4MUfOpI7g6dssGIY0c6cDRx6g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:1107:: with SMTP id z7mr31681587wrw.228.1625733050405; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 01:30:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rltb ([82.66.8.55]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q19sm8564073wmc.44.2021.07.08.01.30.49 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 08 Jul 2021 01:30:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <83a6mxe0aa.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 10:30:48 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83a6mxe0aa.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 08 Jul 2021 10:23:57 +0300") Message-ID: <87fswpb41z.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: Phil Sainty , larsi@gnus.org, p.d.oliver@mavit.org.uk, 49424@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Thu, 08 Jul 2021 10:23:57 +0300, Eli Zaretskii said: >> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 13:17:22 +1200 >> From: Phil Sainty >> Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, >> Robert Pluim >>=20 >> On 2021-07-08 05:58, Peter Oliver wrote: >> > If we=E2=80=99re making a change, here, it may be worth going all = the way: >> > create $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/emacs if it and ~/.emacs.d don=E2=80=99t e= xist, and >> > hence use $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/emacs/init.el when creating a new >> > initialisation file. >>=20 >> I don't agree with doing that. >> Right. We should never create $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/emacs. >> The current XDG_CONFIG_HOME behaviour is opt-in, and I think it shou= ld >> stay that way, partly so that the default behaviour is consistent ac= ross >> systems, but also because I think the suggested behaviour would cause >> widespread confusion from users who run Emacs before creating their >> ~/.emacs.d directory, and then can't figure out why their new config >> isn't working. (IIRC that is exactly what happened with the original >> XDG_CONFIG_HOME support code before it was adjusted to ensure that it >> was opt-in behaviour, despite the fact that you needed to be running >> a pre-release build of Emacs to be affected and therefore likely to >> have a better understanding of things than the average newcomer.) Eli> I tend to agree with Phil here. Let's leave this part of Emacs al= one Eli> for a release or two, and see how the user community reacts to the Eli> changes we did just recently. Making changes right now in this Eli> sensitive area could bring more trouble, and what practical proble= ms Eli> are we going to solve? By 'this part' do you mean the XDG_CONFIG_HOME related changes, or also the suggested change to prefer ~/.emacs.d/init.el when no config files exist? The latter is a relatively small change, but it=CA=BCs in a convoluted area of startup [1], so I=CA=BCd have no problem with leaving it alone. Robert Footnotes: [1] I made the change, tested it, and it gave incorrect results, so had to re-do it. Twice. --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 08 04:46:50 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2021 08:46:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54282 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1PgH-0005t5-Mg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 04:46:49 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f49.google.com ([209.85.128.49]:43605) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1PgF-0005ss-PP for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 04:46:48 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f49.google.com with SMTP id q18-20020a1ce9120000b02901f259f3a250so3463875wmc.2 for <49424@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 01:46:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=obLFjAzhlfBYnbmHVOoP2qFw7kRwkelIz74IMJsXwzY=; b=McF0wG7q9YT2UeHd/Vd1URmUTTpUDJG4FABzrKd0kAGBZ+XsfOf11HEGFgPE5jpTHY p8UBf/d1Qn93n3sLFG1jPqjkTfQYHXTL2Jc+3z91iWm6C/Hkyj11eBu4ary8+BHGMm+I aXiSW9tZUDFzFmC3jO17GyKydFnQA7unSnEjRgM9DEzSiIK+RNy8KoavhzDenl7VYj3C 1LzIIQygXck6K5hsdN2ef1JVmapNkTTRKw+Teb8wOTTf2tsUyTqda4qgT/6N+bnME9TZ ceYVX5heB8BBfde6dbaaO8mymoz/wsawrqK9UUpbf4FcxHoOPIwFM8cTvZW3GW4Qq9ht /Wcg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=obLFjAzhlfBYnbmHVOoP2qFw7kRwkelIz74IMJsXwzY=; b=bv6O2d9NOFxKv63p1Nt0g7SXGYXR4kTpUqEYeOO2ll0yTeaeyP9+IVxyJoCt4FTmce jRiJY7jXGIjX2/aatfOIrYNycWkXd8/y+wjRJn2vTaaE0kGMzvBV59DcEnvf5kcCIgFq 4tprB0DQzWi6Di8sPyXnE+KcWcNJnbzKGASDdu4zKRs/uRrMxPjDqH3Ys/2HqPFjMHWe AQp4VyrRjTO/m4XP3l17vuH7GQ5m7upc5J0RzLymGXT+CPrLLk3WMhVGFrbEOHXhU5cI CL+r7be8ck79UTEgTOBjOlp55EizbBamIxIUQPAy50dlS0dJIjp9Dq2FCRVSn8l7Dtxg h+xA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5339O2u9Ghu06JZHnmEJzzoiUEbv7DC33BXNpkTNgKBIKOTVFNKy oSAOnurA7Pbf4nAELVmhqYxjEFn2wUo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzZzIJiNc87wDrsrKaBmHKMjIUE8nJrLeawEspWmZnyQoY67HwqEObKM+jqMrotjklf+10jnw== X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c247:: with SMTP id b7mr31496751wmj.44.1625733640660; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 01:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rltb ([82.66.8.55]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z3sm1741345wrv.45.2021.07.08.01.40.39 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 08 Jul 2021 01:40:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <831r8aezu6.fsf@gnu.org> <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83tul5exg2.fsf@gnu.org> <79b0205e-b8c5-d11c-5b78-812c352d755@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83h7h5e334.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 10:40:39 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83h7h5e334.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 08 Jul 2021 09:23:27 +0300") Message-ID: <87bl7db3lk.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, Peter Oliver , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Thu, 08 Jul 2021 09:23:27 +0300, Eli Zaretskii said: >> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 22:51:43 +0100 (BST) >> From: Peter Oliver >> cc: rpluim@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org, 49424@debbugs.gnu.org >>=20 >> > The info page =E2=80=9C49.4.4 How Emacs Finds Your Init File=E2= =80=9D says: >> > >> > > For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses = just >> > > the current default location =E2=80=98~/.emacs.d/init.el=E2=80= =99 for the init file. >> > >> > However, this seems to be inaccurate: if I start Emacs as a new u= ser >> > and make a customisation, that customisation is written to ~/.ema= cs. >> > >> > How can a simplifying convention in a manual be "inaccurate"? And >> > what does that convention have to do with the order and logic of h= ow >> > Emacs actually looks for the init file? >>=20 >> I understand the sentence to be making two assertions: >>=20 >> 1. Throughout the documentation, =E2=80=9C~/.emacs.d/init.el=E2=80= =9D will be used >> as a shorthand for =E2=80=9Cthe initialisation file=E2=80=9D, whatev= er filename that >> happens to have. >> 2. The default location of the initialisation file is =E2=80=9C~/.em= acs.d/init.el=E2=80=9D. >>=20 >> Neither is true. Eli> The 2nd one is not what that sentence says. Eli> If the 1st one is incorrect, it should be fixed to reflect the tru= th. Eli> But that has nothing to do with the rest of this discussion, which= is Eli> about the actual method and order Emacs uses to find the init file= (s). FWIW I agree with Peter's interpretation here. We could avoid the whole argument by deleting the whole sentence, since its information content is low anyway. Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 08 05:21:06 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2021 09:21:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54327 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1QDR-0006qr-NO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 05:21:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54408) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1QDM-0006pp-UH for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 05:21:04 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:59718) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m1QDG-0003L7-JH; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 05:20:54 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1636 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m1QDF-0008Bh-VI; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 05:20:54 -0400 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 12:21:03 +0300 Message-Id: <837di1duv4.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Robert Pluim In-Reply-To: <87fswpb41z.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Robert Pluim on Thu, 08 Jul 2021 10:30:48 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <83a6mxe0aa.fsf@gnu.org> <87fswpb41z.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: psainty@orcon.net.nz, larsi@gnus.org, p.d.oliver@mavit.org.uk, 49424@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Robert Pluim > Cc: Phil Sainty , p.d.oliver@mavit.org.uk, > larsi@gnus.org, 49424@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 10:30:48 +0200 > > >> The current XDG_CONFIG_HOME behaviour is opt-in, and I think it should > >> stay that way, partly so that the default behaviour is consistent across > >> systems, but also because I think the suggested behaviour would cause > >> widespread confusion from users who run Emacs before creating their > >> ~/.emacs.d directory, and then can't figure out why their new config > >> isn't working. (IIRC that is exactly what happened with the original > >> XDG_CONFIG_HOME support code before it was adjusted to ensure that it > >> was opt-in behaviour, despite the fact that you needed to be running > >> a pre-release build of Emacs to be affected and therefore likely to > >> have a better understanding of things than the average newcomer.) > > Eli> I tend to agree with Phil here. Let's leave this part of Emacs alone > Eli> for a release or two, and see how the user community reacts to the > Eli> changes we did just recently. Making changes right now in this > Eli> sensitive area could bring more trouble, and what practical problems > Eli> are we going to solve? > > By 'this part' do you mean the XDG_CONFIG_HOME related changes, or > also the suggested change to prefer ~/.emacs.d/init.el when no config > files exist? I meant both. I think we should leave this area alone for a while and let the dust settle on the recent changes. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 08 05:22:47 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2021 09:22:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54331 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1QF5-0006tc-5C for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 05:22:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54658) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1QF3-0006tO-G1 for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 05:22:45 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:59746) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m1QEy-0003oO-94; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 05:22:40 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1748 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m1QEx-0008KW-LN; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 05:22:40 -0400 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 12:22:35 +0300 Message-Id: <835yxldusk.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Robert Pluim In-Reply-To: <87bl7db3lk.fsf@gmail.com> (message from Robert Pluim on Thu, 08 Jul 2021 10:40:39 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <831r8aezu6.fsf@gnu.org> <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83tul5exg2.fsf@gnu.org> <79b0205e-b8c5-d11c-5b78-812c352d755@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83h7h5e334.fsf@gnu.org> <87bl7db3lk.fsf@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, p.d.oliver@mavit.org.uk, 49424@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Robert Pluim > Cc: Peter Oliver , larsi@gnus.org, > 49424@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 10:40:39 +0200 > > Eli> The 2nd one is not what that sentence says. > > Eli> If the 1st one is incorrect, it should be fixed to reflect the truth. > Eli> But that has nothing to do with the rest of this discussion, which is > Eli> about the actual method and order Emacs uses to find the init file(s). > > FWIW I agree with Peter's interpretation here. We could avoid the > whole argument by deleting the whole sentence, since its information > content is low anyway. Deleting that would be a step back, since it was added for a reason, see the discussions about that. Specifically, we don't want to repeat the whole long description of how and where does Emacs find the init file every time we mention the init file. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 08 14:23:14 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2021 18:23:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57449 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1Yg6-0003GI-0T for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 14:23:14 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f47.google.com ([209.85.128.47]:55838) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1Yg0-0003G2-JR for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 14:23:12 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f47.google.com with SMTP id j34so4665528wms.5 for <49424@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 11:23:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mavit.org.uk; s=google; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references :mime-version; bh=WndpaUXsIbrp5lyPMz+yfiZlexi+tHgVTcmYeglTKZU=; b=Ds0hKrHS8MfD9l7dPpIX8uSFnnzvY4EqPlLNEcm3FYHpxmk7ROQkqpcx/SAEc7uRct gRqiRi5HwQj4rRNW+MWgqLmk3t0SUDSpZgY+vP16YlFR3JrMf4jN5J7cjDKJYgCR4/tl mzn+kkpINiXsSdf27aJfG6Hw8tvaYRhfVueNg= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id :references:mime-version; bh=WndpaUXsIbrp5lyPMz+yfiZlexi+tHgVTcmYeglTKZU=; b=YvaR+1IvhElLPs35A9G5gltKkrcK34ck4M738Tc9r+nhUVIZIItctZvZuWGH0hDKcZ /YU22lYXVMWzVHcHE8JUou8dJrHkcSgRNKPIoFuhOKM/B/dQLKx4TttWOxVGuIInZ6+z 6EyJr/7Cenn0xG+F38i99fLHv79dfH6G/hq+xr9GkQS0q1OnqY3TbefiykJj1yp67udx HkuZqI+svhb/IeV6pDyLLc4tzUHfk2r+VaCZbTyNeugsr0+Gx8Uh2prB3uRDWT0tVpVN NBK0xSkrn4jI9MqFZp7zNFZARObCfpWiPOI9rDnz7V68qbR/2R3WsCesO1AMC+QDn4R2 d3dw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531Qt6wc9ZrfJ5kvhobkgFNA3TIviWz2hbQ8B9nHHioQgYxjXuDS S03hEEsghF4MYYiEIlbhZPyEcQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyNZIwkwZPGsQNblgyJf9k/j8Zmu5VyM/pgq4zDaUSulC5GH22ckN8k+ljQ1v+o/MMqQNnZOA== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:59c3:: with SMTP id n186mr6920577wmb.48.1625768582744; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 11:23:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (cpc118948-dudl14-2-0-cust32.16-1.cable.virginm.net. [82.37.201.33]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p7sm2918003wrr.21.2021.07.08.11.23.01 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 08 Jul 2021 11:23:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 168IN0bw039103 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 8 Jul 2021 19:23:00 +0100 Received: from localhost (mavit@localhost) by froglet.home.mavit.org.uk (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) with ESMTP id 168IMxiE039094; Thu, 8 Jul 2021 19:22:59 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: froglet.home.mavit.org.uk: mavit owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 19:22:59 +0100 (BST) From: Peter Oliver To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file In-Reply-To: <835yxldusk.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <9de16f1f-86e1-a2ff-55c3-272b98d0f827@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <831r8aezu6.fsf@gnu.org> <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83tul5exg2.fsf@gnu.org> <79b0205e-b8c5-d11c-5b78-812c352d755@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83h7h5e334.fsf@gnu.org> <87bl7db3lk.fsf@gmail.com> <835yxldusk.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="-1463811583-1261530357-1625768580=:3464" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, Robert Pluim , larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---1463811583-1261530357-1625768580=:3464 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Thu, 8 Jul 2021, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Robert Pluim >> >> We could avoid the >> whole argument by deleting the whole sentence, since its information >> content is low anyway. > > Deleting that would be a step back, since it was added for a reason, > see the discussions about that. Specifically, we don't want to repeat > the whole long description of how and where does Emacs find the init > file every time we mention the init file. Perhaos, elsewhere in the documentation, instead of saying “~/.emacs”, we could say “the initialization file”, accompanied by a link to this description of where it can be found. I couldn’t find the prior discussion of this, so apologies if this idea was already dismissed. -- Peter Oliver ---1463811583-1261530357-1625768580=:3464-- From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 08 15:10:44 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2021 19:10:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57500 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1ZQ4-0004Pc-Cr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 15:10:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52442) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m1ZQ1-0004PO-4j for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 15:10:43 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:48412) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m1ZPv-00056c-FG; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 15:10:35 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2155 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m1ZPv-0006tH-3H; Thu, 08 Jul 2021 15:10:35 -0400 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 22:10:21 +0300 Message-Id: <83v95kd3ky.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Peter Oliver In-Reply-To: <9de16f1f-86e1-a2ff-55c3-272b98d0f827@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> (message from Peter Oliver on Thu, 8 Jul 2021 19:22:59 +0100 (BST)) Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <831r8aezu6.fsf@gnu.org> <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83tul5exg2.fsf@gnu.org> <79b0205e-b8c5-d11c-5b78-812c352d755@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83h7h5e334.fsf@gnu.org> <87bl7db3lk.fsf@gmail.com> <835yxldusk.fsf@gnu.org> <9de16f1f-86e1-a2ff-55c3-272b98d0f827@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 19:22:59 +0100 (BST) > From: Peter Oliver > cc: Robert Pluim , larsi@gnus.org, 49424@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Deleting that would be a step back, since it was added for a reason, > > see the discussions about that. Specifically, we don't want to repeat > > the whole long description of how and where does Emacs find the init > > file every time we mention the init file. > > Perhaos, elsewhere in the documentation, instead of saying “~/.emacs”, we could say “the initialization file”, accompanied by a link to this description of where it can be found. I'd suggest to audit all the places where this could be relevant, before proposing a solution. For example, if some text tells the user "put this-and-that Lisp in your ~/.emacs file", a reference to a description how Emacs looks for the init file will only confuse. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 24 04:13:00 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Oct 2021 08:13:00 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37872 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meYcm-0004Nm-8e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 04:13:00 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f180.google.com ([209.85.214.180]:34725) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meYci-0004NU-5X for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 04:12:59 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f180.google.com with SMTP id r5so1201169pls.1 for <49424@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 01:12:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=d9L1XzgSmTIBBwFT+NtIU0o8HEMdXyKkNkv7AlCKo6I=; b=sgrtcnChoPAECdvpQBsIh7nwZlhaPTXBlCig2/ywDl8pITt/Q5g2ViI9RH3DpcCOMW 6lvcoXOe0QuWV0W0GYUTpQuFUR0mLylRS/cm1/ZsPtH5Q+xgLQ4nsE5Y/OjOpRLQBy88 j4fKNVE7IYYnNDgKeeSr6iTZUMzeWYF+Zl+noSWPKW/Uwtl+IU/qDq6CcrbMKy1tzlE7 nl1vDshsTAtqOTTRzF+9ejoepzUyEIo7eoXBBFkzuDdSPgIs35MrJfL1zqo27aWL9xih nXDif5k6xi2d/HlrXLMgoeV2cIfxHdU/WPermj2rQgmLMmDn031lQFyU2eamt8QITbHI yt1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ewOHK77sxJl/0Tje58Fax78YXs/YudaJFHbjL9XfgQlbmQtTJ GKGLiW7X7cQwYPNChEaCwMsspBLvOXlwh0wl4fs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy+4vgdxiv3adScx4mm6ruB8P/rSWJOl4lLiymIgJKGVX2t7WUw0kqS5FP3oq4uEYjAf594j8NDbas4gkpF1Bw= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b691:b029:12d:2b6:d116 with SMTP id c17-20020a170902b691b029012d02b6d116mr9347890pls.71.1635063170455; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 01:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 01:12:49 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83h7h5e334.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 08 Jul 2021 09:23:27 +0300") References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <831r8aezu6.fsf@gnu.org> <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83tul5exg2.fsf@gnu.org> <79b0205e-b8c5-d11c-5b78-812c352d755@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83h7h5e334.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 01:12:49 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, Peter Oliver , rpluim@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> I understand the sentence to be making two assertions: >> >> 1. Throughout the documentation, =E2=80=9C~/.emacs.d/init.el=E2=80=9D wi= ll be used as a >> shorthand for =E2=80=9Cthe initialisation file=E2=80=9D, whatever filena= me that happens to >> have. >> 2. The default location of the initialisation file is =E2=80=9C~/.emacs.= d/init.el=E2=80=9D. >> >> Neither is true. > > The 2nd one is not what that sentence says. This is the text under discussion: For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just the current default location =E2=80=98~/.emacs.d/init.el=E2=80=99 for t= he init file. The sentence says: "the current default location =E2=80=98~/.emacs.d/init.e= l=E2=80=99". I can't interpret this in any other way than that this is the default location. This is, as we know, incorrect. > If the 1st one is incorrect, it should be fixed to reflect the truth. The proposed fix here was to change it to say: For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just the current default location =E2=80=98~/.emacs=E2=80=99 for the init fi= le. That is incidentally also the convention we have used historically, and what you will find all over the documentation. However, this is also not entirely correct, as the default will differ depending on the details discussed in `(emacs) Find Init'. So I would suggest this simple change instead: For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just the historical default location =E2=80=98~/.emacs=E2=80=99 for the init= file. As for the rest of this bug report, there is some discussion about: A) Inadequacies in the Info node `(emacs) Find Init'. B) Further changes to how we load the init file. As for A, I think the text is fine as is. As for B, I agree with Eli that we should let the dust settle on the recent changes for a while before doing anything more. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 24 09:27:15 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Oct 2021 13:27:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38188 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1medWt-0006mx-I2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 09:27:15 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:44144) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1medWr-0006mj-6p for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 09:27:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Q/89dqBgno0SCy+RoZKsFlRjRqzsLlZvemVBjvWE4NQ=; b=FtLqMqiRyOy4U0rNzweMbET81n n9o6Uzx5NC5Ch6tnzC/BQ/yjhpJzyC9ebPcclfk5YQ2deoNPGEMpoBXwdGIs6gQbV+V80wDLYb5Pz /82tWIQX/VyNJFpTnAAyKwBnQZsi/zCwcAjTvC7rxHbppED9rO0AZf7RLmqtmPT7bpfM=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1medWh-0007Mv-9v; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 15:27:05 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <831r8aezu6.fsf@gnu.org> <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83tul5exg2.fsf@gnu.org> <79b0205e-b8c5-d11c-5b78-812c352d755@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83h7h5e334.fsf@gnu.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEUwGA+kTy7olFT/ //+IyZgpAAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+UKGAw3DMXrUjsAAADuSURBVCjPjc8xbsMwDABA ETB/EP6HAerdQyjAmtMhekWf0KFTpw42EOuVJSlZdjrVg8QzRZEKYf9IpMeXM3DUGHaB3HpGIf9B mOkEeoEfQ+EzwrGRdxto9l8OpIet6CXgB4i4Zu5eUxG/bGvT2tR9JqvRF16nBk0IOea79pXJqzCt DqjYDOygVKyeR4PkzSBivfEhFUu4eD9DXIJo/G4XSFrAIA0otvsE+Yk3R9ClPHGihmiQivituDbk ohgbSilLzyh+GsDwiXzgAxg7GJh6DcNEaY0H8tbwZljzDrvgD+AVKZcBGBwp520Ae2T5BQcodEfp GrRSAAAAOGVYSWZNTQAqAAAACAABh2kABAAAAAEAAAAaAAAAAAACoAIABAAAAAEAAAGQoAMABAAA AAEAAAGQAAAAADj5TfYAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjEtMTAtMjRUMTI6NTU6MTErMDA6 MDB+Lt0lAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIxLTEwLTI0VDEyOjU1OjExKzAwOjAwD3NlmQAA ABJ0RVh0ZXhpZjpFeGlmT2Zmc2V0ADI2UxuiZQAAABh0RVh0ZXhpZjpQaXhlbFhEaW1lbnNpb24A NDAwQPmChgAAABh0RVh0ZXhpZjpQaXhlbFlEaW1lbnNpb24ANDAw3fZj8AAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 15:27:02 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Sun, 24 Oct 2021 01:12:49 -0700") Message-ID: <8735oqa6zd.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > This is the text under discussion: > > For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just > the current default location ‘~/.emacs.d/init.el’ for the init file. > > The sentence [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Peter Oliver , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Kangas writes: > This is the text under discussion: > > For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses just > the current default location =E2=80=98~/.emacs.d/init.el=E2=80=99 for= the init file. > > The sentence says: "the current default location =E2=80=98~/.emacs.d/init= .el=E2=80=99". > I can't interpret this in any other way than that this is the default > location. This is, as we know, incorrect. Well, it's the default default location, isn't it? But saying "current" here is very odd -- it's probably meant as opposed to "historical", but why should the person reading this text care? Why not just say For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses =E2=80=98~/.emacs.d/init.el=E2=80=99 for the init file. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 24 10:10:27 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Oct 2021 14:10:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40455 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meeCg-0008RM-TZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 10:10:27 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f52.google.com ([209.85.216.52]:42901) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meeCf-0008R9-Jx for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 10:10:26 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f52.google.com with SMTP id nn3-20020a17090b38c300b001a03bb6c4ebso6444046pjb.1 for <49424@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 07:10:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=gd9Wxz36g/T2w+i0Rd3nmBo2M4cM++5N6ZGRuHRSIJo=; b=DTLXtV4/zWCh9AruyMt/ZxSEq5OkFY7g19JDaZNhp2G6rHTwJO/WKhCrNquQ4+npje v206v/h3IuiuBYPHmxo56yDRBAnMNLfuDCMwPmZT+ielQ+nQ42KmDoOGtvBDkyiO0VHO pRAPiQvfLY066yeqAHpKG41buc4kJIv2eu45N3P+BQpR6J7xpzknP3JvfdJXLeDJE94T 94guTvQIccudY/HfMTAzT5A+f2nSwy+JU3fX+IRdAF5RzQmbUbJccWq4X3pnQVc7EAav 9QKuCX1P4cbWeisW4Kk8PzyDWESF3eIn52x3VNFE6uvbPbCANqsxGv/QlIvb8v3c6J+b sseg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533+eGVB1l6Z1Wp6jhf39mE5lpDhkse+SU5GsrKEeohsQ5N1YA28 825keWWad2hrjpYdCSvPleFYVPPJsA/nspEiPr8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwgBf+eMfRStFkWatdhGgUSP5RfVFwNF9ohd7sqwaRO3HbC+OyaZfOP30KtzEH1NQxftTlz+6U1MG2RG2gRf9o= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:e750:b0:140:2693:b2e8 with SMTP id p16-20020a170902e75000b001402693b2e8mr11083222plf.22.1635084619722; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 07:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 07:10:19 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <8735oqa6zd.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <831r8aezu6.fsf@gnu.org> <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83tul5exg2.fsf@gnu.org> <79b0205e-b8c5-d11c-5b78-812c352d755@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83h7h5e334.fsf@gnu.org> <8735oqa6zd.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 07:10:19 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Peter Oliver , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: >> This is the text under discussion: >> >> For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses ju= st >> the current default location =E2=80=98~/.emacs.d/init.el=E2=80=99 fo= r the init file. >> >> The sentence says: "the current default location =E2=80=98~/.emacs.d/ini= t.el=E2=80=99". >> I can't interpret this in any other way than that this is the default >> location. This is, as we know, incorrect. > > Well, it's the default default location, isn't it? The default is ".emacs.el", if this text from (info "(emacs) Find Init") is correct: Emacs looks for your init file using the filenames =E2=80=98~/.emacs.e= l=E2=80=99, =E2=80=98~/.emacs=E2=80=99, or =E2=80=98~/.emacs.d/init.el=E2=80=99 in= that order; you can choose to use any one of these names. [...] Emacs can also look in an XDG-compatible location for =E2=80=98init.el=E2=80=99, the default is = the directory =E2=80=98~/.config/emacs=E2=80=99. > But saying "current" here is very odd -- it's probably meant as opposed > to "historical", but why should the person reading this text care? Why > not just say > > For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses > =E2=80=98~/.emacs.d/init.el=E2=80=99 for the init file. I guess because that's not the convention we actually use. :-) We say ".emacs" everywhere. AFAICT, the only place we even mention "~/.emacs.d/init.el" in the manual is this node (!). That's why I proposed to change "current" to "historical", but the word "traditional" is also good IMO. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 24 10:18:07 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Oct 2021 14:18:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40474 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meeK7-0000Br-Jf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 10:18:07 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:44630) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meeK5-0000BO-So for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 10:18:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=p5SNJo0RFeyf4lP8MxboTYedQNg107vsHMpfY0X3XFU=; b=mI7MFItFz5tx9EG5XEATSrpwvA XY7rkk70Ev2TU61LvrSPknA5Glho2ueRN2J77L4Xlk5xY2dYEvOSdcYzLItEA0LkwhBDeOGmRPGIJ WqD4ZXB/FzDM3ZhXMvYohuxdn/uuqTeCKZf+MHWlJQmD+9nN5FgRDZ12dqQxh+twn2X4=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1meeJw-0007rA-CW; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 16:17:59 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <831r8aezu6.fsf@gnu.org> <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83tul5exg2.fsf@gnu.org> <79b0205e-b8c5-d11c-5b78-812c352d755@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83h7h5e334.fsf@gnu.org> <8735oqa6zd.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 16:17:55 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Sun, 24 Oct 2021 07:10:19 -0700") Message-ID: <871r4a8q24.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: >> For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses >> ‘~/.emacs.d/init.el’ for the init file. > > I guess because that's not the convention we actually use. :-) > We say ".emacs" ev [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Peter Oliver , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Kangas writes: >> For brevity the rest of the Emacs documentation generally uses >> =E2=80=98~/.emacs.d/init.el=E2=80=99 for the init file. > > I guess because that's not the convention we actually use. :-) > We say ".emacs" everywhere. AFAICT, the only place we even mention > "~/.emacs.d/init.el" in the manual is this node (!). Heh heh. Oh, OK. > That's why I proposed to change "current" to "historical", but the word > "traditional" is also good IMO. But what about changing all the .emacs instances to ~/.emacs.d/init.el, which is what we're trying to encourage, I think? (Even if we let ~/.emacs.el and ~/.emacs take precedence.) --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 24 10:25:44 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Oct 2021 14:25:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40481 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meeRU-0000Ma-K7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 10:25:44 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f54.google.com ([209.85.221.54]:46616) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meeRS-0000MI-Nw for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 10:25:43 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f54.google.com with SMTP id k7so3070181wrd.13 for <49424@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 07:25:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=1j3ZMwzWdmzugKSRHvuAyi9qP9/wIuSHGYWYAxhv8PU=; b=UdEbdg5LxTWVb8N95lqO5Ay36l7SrPegGeChqECNJ5+6mXKMMXCpPxoYsW4XqRqw1j r5Bd2ip/2nx6R5td98o6SDdWR0uc1c/Rdb6HUD9GvmaQcLgHbaMiteWpq164gxJcF04R f9saPYKWD3HTPHRKriax0jUaUmx2mWbsAOhoGOC6uk1TjL644+ARcdsAvY3mcZoyNL6o I8ZNpkw6mkwJb5SRdk65e/WMah1BuKjm1W7ybaJBRdjGu3cAthNx0ft303otSraJn2UW v6TUodENRhU1uNzyrXyqZFfoHckQJQ2uRkLF34c15Yp2bVuP84IiKcKeZuULA7gS5JgB GpXw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=1j3ZMwzWdmzugKSRHvuAyi9qP9/wIuSHGYWYAxhv8PU=; b=p/qJ8oq7KZBxWqwQOvI3v3gcuZH4fWuic0taJX8pYFHXR7hBX5jXVSI6I7RLbCraBk /5fRBCrn0pg2RzcDmzvyRrR2+qivgaBWvT1GvAG8Hm/8m7/mCmeZL21RU6AFBHC5/OCX ktB5DA7uaLJ17uTG8f5mfmS3JaVXsBHj0CJNIoj4PCuA7r6cFcGCXPPbCH8kvl5aaSPv VcSgYJ9vyuzYEnIyYts6xjj919Y8iNZ60oTCGlpkzNIEEZmhQxyLNgbD3nc8q4LcLysY kmr7bHMhOtLxgYcwcj4nv6Jm9G1NRdIxagCrDjK4J4J1zm4nrdfckCrqU8d7G1JRcLo8 Zbjg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5323uLKSE85Jzkbb7+oXxWJQqbJOh6mYrJowq2iJDyfOW45UaVU4 l+1o0Oy2cOhkhYCgvzaVNQ4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzOFVyqvoqffQ01wDBUonkQiZop0n59TSWWGbwt+8xHjJ8dOl020kFr8ugXjLIqf6cMx0zbHw== X-Received: by 2002:adf:bd91:: with SMTP id l17mr15794355wrh.261.1635085536908; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 07:25:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rltb ([82.66.8.55]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o23sm14154088wms.18.2021.10.24.07.25.36 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 24 Oct 2021 07:25:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Pluim To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <831r8aezu6.fsf@gnu.org> <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83tul5exg2.fsf@gnu.org> <79b0205e-b8c5-d11c-5b78-812c352d755@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83h7h5e334.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 16:25:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Sun, 24 Oct 2021 01:12:49 -0700") Message-ID: <8735oqzehs.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, Eli Zaretskii , Peter Oliver , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>>>> On Sun, 24 Oct 2021 01:12:49 -0700, Stefan Kangas = said: Stefan> A) Inadequacies in the Info node `(emacs) Find Init'. Stefan> B) Further changes to how we load the init file. Stefan> As for A, I think the text is fine as is. As for B, I agree wi= th Eli Stefan> that we should let the dust settle on the recent changes for a = while Stefan> before doing anything more. I=CA=BCve not re-read "(emacs) Find Init" recently, so I=CA=BCll defer to y= our judgement on that. And Eli is spot on regarding init file loading changes. It=CA=BCs complicated enough as it is, and doesn=CA=BCt need any more tinkering. Robert --=20 From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 24 10:47:21 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Oct 2021 14:47:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40521 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meemP-00033O-IA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 10:47:21 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f180.google.com ([209.85.210.180]:39505) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meemO-00033B-3W for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 10:47:20 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f180.google.com with SMTP id d9so8279158pfl.6 for <49424@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 07:47:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UsYgB1gNk/uzJGGyehhvs2YWIFqdh/l5LTkx3NbJ/N0=; b=gVsezCN8zxsq0UCB1bpu1ZNf84/IsMVaRrCYA6lIb4O1ui+VwhCL7EZjU95Q4uzxKL 6i11ESksoeOwekWESn0yvI5eZkdaErPGtWCB5o/sbU9Nq6SLSyPw/Tm5+mLE/XF7cac2 nYCaf3Fr8DTofYWBwlQZbOkyjjCv1D+tvsjwZPDQvZm0yBkNdUKWJ1nQuktZKAAXCrzZ CWA+w6qxtkSAsVyigPhvbiskMshGRLG/5K7SW2KUm5kEu3+br7yeYl1wb+NCU/TeDgZ/ 4W1CfKpR8gPID+59ODolT6iCRFt5iZ/ECN3NIcKqs/oYzwPgEAG1CpdZg2Ki57ZcnCRH 05Uw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532e8rf2LMTQ8x+SsWXa1JcKAQIAAzIKt+bjcfdKW3xRfogJqf7b n933GSdFTDGGuxWutXpHwVCVED6Nww6s2ArGC/o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzE0O38CM8OS8+eYCV8/vQ0aOEfMKBTlhE7vUkiwEK2ONjUy2J4HBVyW3SKYLB1Qw93UezDGFr32oOJAVpY4mo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:244d:b0:44d:c279:5155 with SMTP id d13-20020a056a00244d00b0044dc2795155mr12636650pfj.0.1635086834328; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 07:47:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 07:47:13 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <871r4a8q24.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <831r8aezu6.fsf@gnu.org> <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83tul5exg2.fsf@gnu.org> <79b0205e-b8c5-d11c-5b78-812c352d755@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83h7h5e334.fsf@gnu.org> <8735oqa6zd.fsf@gnus.org> <871r4a8q24.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 07:47:13 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Peter Oliver , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > But what about changing all the .emacs instances to ~/.emacs.d/init.el, > which is what we're trying to encourage, I think? (Even if we let > ~/.emacs.el and ~/.emacs take precedence.) Sure, that also makes sense. I think that is what Eli proposed as well. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 24 10:57:12 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Oct 2021 14:57:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40552 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meevw-0003Kr-Jc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 10:57:12 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f169.google.com ([209.85.210.169]:42789) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1meevh-0003Jh-0M for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 10:57:11 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f169.google.com with SMTP id m14so8280745pfc.9 for <49424@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 07:56:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0T4v3hZtxbgh4bGo2dMiDH1uDFC6ha9Ka14z8ZIVvUk=; b=bJggF4W0f/d0/KB941kshMKEgr3hNgV3SdowBJzfLuZiXl0WIPEGzy4ulb5OgpofOq MBH4GKTF3IIX7qs1bJ5o79vhpHL4hnp76exw56ZGOIyyeEIkSecfvtiXV7ndNZ3LKeCZ 4PwsCDdpVkht/PE+y7jsgrNKxtiKdDElWXBNZQ48ygmi+lwLYQzpfjV29d2ffpSwkhqA kVuh7sLIik+hmadOt35DgFRSQ/9PNvPQ1L7hkrfeAgW8YR4NQal7/7orAQ3aMFstJ5I6 amiZoSb8WhgjoQGhRim6pnbV1/esWfMtuDyQ3SzDO1XQVXqULQ1UH0gk+wyVTy1KFA0s uo+A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531lw/59NL/vqKeB4t0dK2pbunRRvTIc5oH4XV9BGfegu+aUENK1 r9nrdGvzyk/1U0EWdE6mpxRA6J6MITMVo3USwSo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyHjHcIbZrNauWCasWi/9xfuPuAcfoIkoDW0njSU0mR2LT9uZ2VNtwjJbToPQT55KlWwusFXuz4coRcOZ9FsIE= X-Received: by 2002:a63:330f:: with SMTP id z15mr6193164pgz.42.1635087411046; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 07:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 07:56:50 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <871r4a8q24.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <831r8aezu6.fsf@gnu.org> <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83tul5exg2.fsf@gnu.org> <79b0205e-b8c5-d11c-5b78-812c352d755@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83h7h5e334.fsf@gnu.org> <8735oqa6zd.fsf@gnus.org> <871r4a8q24.fsf@gnus.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 07:56:50 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Peter Oliver , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > But what about changing all the .emacs instances to ~/.emacs.d/init.el, > which is what we're trying to encourage, I think? (Even if we let > ~/.emacs.el and ~/.emacs take precedence.) I started this, we have 500+ instances to look over in doc/... Do we want the full path to the file every time? That's arguably a bit better. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 24 11:21:01 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Oct 2021 15:21:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40575 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mefIz-00063t-CA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 11:21:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37778) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mefIx-00063I-5v for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 11:21:00 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37530) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mefIr-0006P3-7c; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 11:20:53 -0400 Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2842 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mefIl-0006FX-Rw; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 11:20:53 -0400 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 18:20:38 +0300 Message-Id: <83v91m30vt.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sun, 24 Oct 2021 07:56:50 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <831r8aezu6.fsf@gnu.org> <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83tul5exg2.fsf@gnu.org> <79b0205e-b8c5-d11c-5b78-812c352d755@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83h7h5e334.fsf@gnu.org> <8735oqa6zd.fsf@gnus.org> <871r4a8q24.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, p.d.oliver@mavit.org.uk, 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 07:56:50 -0700 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Peter Oliver , 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, > rpluim@gmail.com > > Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > > > But what about changing all the .emacs instances to ~/.emacs.d/init.el, > > which is what we're trying to encourage, I think? (Even if we let > > ~/.emacs.el and ~/.emacs take precedence.) > > I started this, we have 500+ instances to look over in doc/... > > Do we want the full path to the file every time? That's arguably a bit > better. I'd just say "init file". It's shorter and simpler, and will not need any changes when we make the next change in this area. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 24 17:52:51 2021 Received: (at 49424) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Oct 2021 21:52:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41154 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1melQB-00064h-EM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 17:52:51 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f53.google.com ([209.85.216.53]:46595) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1melQ9-00064U-W8 for 49424@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 17:52:50 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f53.google.com with SMTP id pi19-20020a17090b1e5300b0019fdd3557d3so6904690pjb.5 for <49424@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 14:52:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xpCkAsYJv7TjnUHI70oVyxNtdl78N0fsu3MfUtR8ak4=; b=NDphgbO8DCsZXfm3p/yqGQxfJKhQgyu2n9TttTjjCCkxB3B8a+iQzk/BJ523wIwmZA aUGsg0S1Tw2Kp/U4FjZ3l2NX+UDV1xbDDtBoT+jwa16gWk2JIJsZXG9j9LbjHOD4iPhS jlsOUzIVQo21psPzrHba3yZD7FYcKLJPUYAjf9VJ5SAZMoF0MBX1VkwYAnGNfW12N0dm mHDpGOJBNNyKOqOMMaX1+26+b7GwIo2SnjJ3igySBhXNewYNKSlzCBCV6NVya90kE1dw sRLiN4ivtZ8C5paMjvzoDOm5miVDlffQiEyJ1LRPKFwUz51brkdODg1B0LFp4+N1rnqf A6UA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531uoXnz7zrfk8uCIAcWoeCZ9lI8+0huOB4QNBHq2YsbH142DcI9 GJnX+JAGD/SB7y8S7uKZBiAeELk3uuna9ouqKJ8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy7AV9Ewv4RrWZtTWoi3zFYgUfn5XcM8xQmwhu1PtK0mYwNCkMuSBO4B6ZCvkvHT0WZo33efRkNYCWoj9jutsw= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:c7c3:b0:140:2033:662c with SMTP id r3-20020a170902c7c300b001402033662cmr12674178pla.32.1635112364203; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 14:52:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 14:52:43 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <83v91m30vt.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87bl7fscid.fsf@gnus.org> <87zguybhzw.fsf@gmail.com> <995892f5-e466-ada6-a64a-e1199d4e33a6@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <831r8aezu6.fsf@gnu.org> <05beaaf-113c-1260-e58-a4736396a765@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83tul5exg2.fsf@gnu.org> <79b0205e-b8c5-d11c-5b78-812c352d755@froglet.home.mavit.org.uk> <83h7h5e334.fsf@gnu.org> <8735oqa6zd.fsf@gnus.org> <871r4a8q24.fsf@gnus.org> <83v91m30vt.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 14:52:43 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#49424: 27.2; Misdocumented default initialisation file To: Eli Zaretskii Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49424 Cc: larsi@gnus.org, p.d.oliver@mavit.org.uk, 49424@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Eli Zaretskii writes: > I'd just say "init file". It's shorter and simpler, and will not need > any changes when we make the next change in this area. Sounds good to me.