From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 02 11:54:25 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2021 15:54:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36941 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lzLUn-00066j-2p for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Jul 2021 11:54:25 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:57064) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lzLUk-00066T-N5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 02 Jul 2021 11:54:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45036) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lzLUk-000101-ER for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Jul 2021 11:54:22 -0400 Received: from hedgehog.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.81]:27632) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lzLUi-0001Cy-Sa for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Jul 2021 11:54:22 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CF581E29D5 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 15:54:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a42.g.dreamhost.com (100-101-162-64.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.101.162.64]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id BD4E41E3102 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 15:54:17 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a42.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 100.101.162.64 (trex/6.3.3); Fri, 02 Jul 2021 15:54:18 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Society-Suffer: 67cab8644f1c7c62_1625241258192_3007540213 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1625241258192:2200521347 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1625241258192 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a42.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a42.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75669897E2 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 15:54:17 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to :subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s= jidanni.org; bh=qydEaOIYsaOPQnaOZtk8QYj8WKw=; b=lqlpwLvGauz6irkr Na0qT6t0aFkMUSlIkAt9mPDdQhNmCcfEtP5xc+82yrjx2DvYCG7oybWBpOyhqNO4 7Jlts57U/DOChF0VIi6rXsg4ypiML02aS8FWUcolByVp760jT3eKWP4e8KkrzBVB UDgSymnYccsUr8XjSk8avav00eo= Received: from jidanni.org (220-140-5-80.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [220.140.5.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a42.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ED6FD7EFD0 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 15:54:16 +0000 (UTC) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a42 From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: No mention in manual of how to make text blink Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 12:39:16 +0800 Message-ID: <87r1ghfhxn.5.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=23.83.209.81; envelope-from=jidanni@jidanni.org; helo=hedgehog.birch.relay.mailchannels.net X-Spam_score_int: -5 X-Spam_score: -0.6 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=1.543, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) In the emacs manual there is plenty of mention of how to make the cursor blink. Alas, e.g., (info "(emacs) Face Customization") and (info "(emacs) Faces") neglect mentioning how to make text blink. I recall even a VT100 could be made to make text blink. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 04 09:58:53 2021 Received: (at 49332) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jul 2021 13:58:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42918 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m02e5-0007Dc-EZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Jul 2021 09:58:53 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47316) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m02e3-0007DF-6w for 49332@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Jul 2021 09:58:51 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=pKwVWFqG/ZXtORWYofzo0thO71NsI1RCbS0PeyzlpVM=; b=aqa+JofTz0YHFxsPO5d70Z7Hi1 9i7lWRbxdYGMvw6MevTZk94LZrDkRGblvIDO2qUQ9bflA8ngjE0n8uO+mYz+IFFdUkuR0vLiwkB1T gifo+cRoA/fBx6RwMbo69HAfVqPl18J35vr262e6tEWCY9ChqPn2X7WnKPTIwMn8QbN4=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m02du-0000zM-N5; Sun, 04 Jul 2021 15:58:45 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson Subject: Re: bug#49332: No mention in manual of how to make text blink References: <87r1ghfhxn.5.fsf@jidanni.org> X-Now-Playing: Kissing the Pink's _Naked_: "The Last Film (Hymn version)" Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2021 15:58:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87r1ghfhxn.5.fsf@jidanni.org> (=?utf-8?B?IuepjeS4ueWwvA==?= Dan Jacobson"'s message of "Fri, 02 Jul 2021 12:39:16 +0800") Message-ID: <87v95q2nal.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson writes: > In the emacs manual there is plenty of mention of how to make the cursor blink. > Alas, e.g., > (info "(emacs) Face Customization") and (info "(emacs) Faces") > neglect mentioning how to make text b [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49332 Cc: 49332@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) =E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC Dan Jacobson writes: > In the emacs manual there is plenty of mention of how to make the cursor = blink. > Alas, e.g., > (info "(emacs) Face Customization") and (info "(emacs) Faces") > neglect mentioning how to make text blink. > I recall even a VT100 could be made to make text blink. There are VT codes for blinking text, but documenting that would be out of scope for the Emacs manual. In Emacs, if you want to make text blink, you have to write code to blink the text (with timers and stuff), and that's also out of scope for this manual entry. So I'm closing this bug report. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 04 09:58:56 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jul 2021 13:58:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42921 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m02e8-0007Ds-NN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Jul 2021 09:58:56 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47330) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m02e8-0007DQ-6c for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Jul 2021 09:58:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=D4inrGV/VOi4hPUCQBjXD0arSd8M0fqANPfPGfDM8qA=; b=tlj0287pSI5c2OzuXmGvlewiuj hb70c4pjA9qyghvDz5g16kEMkuAaPNxWHAYzSrIoIQBS0Yu6VuCEfFF469+VKO55zRPqlujjA/plb br1qypjsyIqDdtoQ0hWEAgjV4IJNDQ4m09nIE1ETrC9dNs8OMrYvgSXmVLi5VrKJaDUs=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m02e0-0000zX-Hy for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 04 Jul 2021 15:58:50 +0200 Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2021 15:58:48 +0200 Message-Id: <87tula2naf.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #49332 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: tags 49332 notabug close 49332 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 49332 notabug close 49332 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 06 16:01:46 2021 Received: (at 49332) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jul 2021 20:01:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50270 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m0rGM-0007ei-CW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 16:01:46 -0400 Received: from eastern.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.55]:54590) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m0rGK-0007eN-5L for 49332@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 16:01:44 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D8621E2A3B; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 20:01:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a60.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-13-105.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.13.105]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 1CD621E2ACD; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 20:01:42 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a60.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 100.96.13.105 (trex/6.3.3); Tue, 06 Jul 2021 20:01:42 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Reaction-Imminent: 08f059d54076cb8c_1625601702413_1079511317 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1625601702413:338257855 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1625601702412 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a60.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a60.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF7D7E0A4; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 20:01:41 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=jidanni.org; bh=ucNls9nWRXG2DuOKWJyGCbqCcrM=; b=MnyyG9fQG3Alp hTEQSEaThK63uVs8Ny9h/kNL81YeH6OreqPbEt/rmLkdNYD077D99phZgbr3IB4x KAn+50z1eo+Te7XQMCPE3Mdi+UAVWGroP3tsYSQGOndDzz9WAclys/T2G5PVA2GF hkZbS33gAIJoQz12OLstn6I4jlC18Q= Received: from jidanni.org (114-41-21-77.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [114.41.21.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a60.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2D275B7C09; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 20:01:40 +0000 (UTC) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a60 From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#49332: No mention in manual of how to make text blink References: <87r1ghfhxn.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <87v95q2nal.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 00:57:07 +0800 Message-ID: <87fswrxtwc.5.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: LI> In Emacs, if you want to make text LI> blink, you have to write code to blink the text (with timers and stuff), Actually all that is needed is the face for the cursor mentioned in frame.el just needs to be shared with the rest of Emacs. Content analysis details: (1.1 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.1 DATE_IN_PAST_03_06 Date: is 3 to 6 hours before Received: date 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [23.83.209.55 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 RBL: Good reputation (+3) [23.83.209.55 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49332 Cc: 49332@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) LI> In Emacs, if you want to make text LI> blink, you have to write code to blink the text (with timers and stuff), Actually all that is needed is the face for the cursor mentioned in frame.el just needs to be shared with the rest of Emacs. You can also set the text cursor color, for all frames, by customizing the `cursor' face." I.e., if other faces could also use the cursor's blinking face, then I could even add blinking in addition to just (custom-set-faces'(message-header-cc((t(:foreground "white" :bold t :background "tomato"))))) (custom-set-faces'(gnus-header-cc((t(:foreground "white" :bold t :background "tomato"))))) in an extra effort to make it clear that I was about to send a mail to more people than I might have thought I was. And more people were reading the message I was reading too. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 06 22:25:36 2021 Received: (at 49332) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2021 02:25:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50468 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m0xFo-00021Z-MS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 22:25:36 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57248) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1m0xFm-00021N-UI for 49332@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 22:25:35 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:42296) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m0xFh-00020T-72; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 22:25:29 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3304 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m0xFf-0007jf-P3; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 22:25:28 -0400 Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 05:25:36 +0300 Message-Id: <837di2g8rj.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson In-Reply-To: <87fswrxtwc.5.fsf@jidanni.org> Subject: Re: bug#49332: No mention in manual of how to make text blink References: <87r1ghfhxn.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <87v95q2nal.fsf@gnus.org> <87fswrxtwc.5.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 49332 Cc: 49332@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson > > Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 00:57:07 +0800 > Cc: 49332@debbugs.gnu.org > > LI> In Emacs, if you want to make text > LI> blink, you have to write code to blink the text (with timers and stuff), > > Actually all that is needed is the face for the cursor mentioned in > frame.el just needs to be shared with the rest of Emacs. No, because the way Emacs makes the cursor blink has nothing to do with faces. See blink-cursor-mode, which is a separate feature, orthogonal with faces. > I.e., if other faces could also use the cursor's blinking face, > then I could even add blinking in addition to just There's no such thing as "cursor's blinking face" in Emacs. From unknown Sun Sep 21 01:06:55 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2021 11:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator