GNU bug report logs - #49193
Document require-final-newline vs. readonly files

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni <at> jidanni.org>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: Document require-final-newline vs. readonly files
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 23:14:56 +0800

(info "(emacs) Customize Save") says:
   If the value of the variable ‘require-final-newline’ is ‘t’, saving or
   writing a file silently puts a newline at the end if there isn’t already
   one there.  If the value is ‘visit’, Emacs adds a newline at the end of
   any file that doesn’t have one, just after it visits the file...

OK, but mention if this even affects readonly files / owned by other users
that we visit.

Message #8 received at 49193 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni <at> jidanni.org>
Cc: 49193 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#49193: Document require-final-newline vs. readonly files
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 21:06:18 +0300

> From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson
>  <jidanni <at> jidanni.org>
> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 23:14:56 +0800
> 
> (info "(emacs) Customize Save") says:
>    If the value of the variable ‘require-final-newline’ is ‘t’, saving or
>    writing a file silently puts a newline at the end if there isn’t already
>    one there.  If the value is ‘visit’, Emacs adds a newline at the end of
>    any file that doesn’t have one, just after it visits the file...
> 
> OK, but mention if this even affects readonly files / owned by other users
> that we visit.

There's nothing to mention, because this feature doesn't change how
saving to an unwritable file behaves in Emacs.  The feature works on
the buffer text, not on the buffer's file.

Message #11 received at 49193 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni <at> jidanni.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 49193 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#49193: Document require-final-newline vs. readonly files
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2021 03:22:22 +0800

>>>>> "EZ" == Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>> From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson
>> <jidanni <at> jidanni.org>
>> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 23:14:56 +0800
>> 
>> (info "(emacs) Customize Save") says:
>> If the value of the variable ‘require-final-newline’ is ‘t’, saving or
>> writing a file silently puts a newline at the end if there isn’t already
>> one there.  If the value is ‘visit’, Emacs adds a newline at the end of
>> any file that doesn’t have one, just after it visits the file...
>> 
>> OK, but mention if this even affects readonly files / owned by other users
>> that we visit.

EZ> There's nothing to mention, because this feature doesn't change how
EZ> saving to an unwritable file behaves in Emacs.  The feature works on
EZ> the buffer text, not on the buffer's file.

Ah, that clears things up.
So please mention that.

Message #16 received at 49193-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni <at> jidanni.org>
Cc: 49193-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#49193: Document require-final-newline vs. readonly files
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2021 08:55:39 +0300

> From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni <at> jidanni.org>
> Cc: 49193 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2021 03:22:22 +0800
> 
> EZ> There's nothing to mention, because this feature doesn't change how
> EZ> saving to an unwritable file behaves in Emacs.  The feature works on
> EZ> the buffer text, not on the buffer's file.
> 
> Ah, that clears things up.
> So please mention that.

I don't see a reason to mention that feature A doesn't change how
feature B works, for every combination of A and B.

So I'm closing this bug report.

Message #19 received at 49193 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen <at> web.de>
To: 49193 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Cc: eliz <at> gnu.org, jidanni <at> jidanni.org
Subject: Re: bug#49193: Document require-final-newline vs. readonly files
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 00:08:34 +0200

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> > From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni <at> jidanni.org>
> > Cc: 49193 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2021 03:22:22 +0800
> > 
> > EZ> There's nothing to mention, because this feature doesn't change how
> > EZ> saving to an unwritable file behaves in Emacs.  The feature works on
> > EZ> the buffer text, not on the buffer's file.
> > 
> > Ah, that clears things up.
> > So please mention that.
>
> I don't see a reason to mention that feature A doesn't change how
> feature B works, for every combination of A and B.

If you want a second opinion: That's not the source of my confusion
about the text:

| If the value is ‘visit’, Emacs adds a newline at the end of any file
| that doesn’t have one, just after it visits the file...

But that's not true, is it?  The file is not touched.  Is the newline
still added to the file's buffer?  Or not even that (because the buffer
is read-only)?

Would

| [...] Emacs adds a newline at the end of any file's buffer that
| doesn’t have one, just after it visits the file...

be clearer?


Thanks,

Michael.

Message #22 received at 49193 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen <at> web.de>
Cc: 49193 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, jidanni <at> jidanni.org
Subject: Re: bug#49193: Document require-final-newline vs. readonly files
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 09:07:31 +0300

> From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen <at> web.de>
> Cc: eliz <at> gnu.org,  jidanni <at> jidanni.org
> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 00:08:34 +0200
> 
> | If the value is ‘visit’, Emacs adds a newline at the end of any file
> | that doesn’t have one, just after it visits the file...
> 
> But that's not true, is it?  The file is not touched.  Is the newline
> still added to the file's buffer?  Or not even that (because the buffer
> is read-only)?
> 
> Would
> 
> | [...] Emacs adds a newline at the end of any file's buffer that
> | doesn’t have one, just after it visits the file...
> 
> be clearer?

Depends on the beholder, I guess.  Many newbies don't understand the
fine difference, and have trouble with the idea that Emacs doesn't
generally manipulate files for editing.

Message #25 received at 49193 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni <at> jidanni.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen <at> web.de>, 49193 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#49193: Document require-final-newline vs. readonly files
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2021 01:18:02 +0800

>> Would
>> 
>> | [...] Emacs adds a newline at the end of any file's buffer that
>> | doesn’t have one, just after it visits the file...
>> 
>> be clearer?

Better say **buffer** or BUFFER, not just plain buffer.

EZ> Depends on the beholder, I guess.  Many newbies don't understand the
EZ> fine difference, and have trouble with the idea that Emacs doesn't
EZ> generally manipulate files for editing.

It's correct that they don't understand the difference, so it would be
great if the manual helped a little to explain it, right there on that
page too in fact.

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