GNU bug report logs - #49062
27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: "bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Subject: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 14:00:33 +0000

1. emacs -Q

2. In *scratch*, type and then eval this: (setq a 42).

3. C-h v a

You get this ephemeral message (check *Messages*):

 Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"

And *Help* is displayed with this:

 a's value is 42

   Probably introduced at or before Emacs version 1.1.

 Documentation:
 Not documented as a variable.

An Easter egg, of sorts.  And Emacs version 1.1!
What's the prize for finding this begg?


In GNU Emacs 27.2 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32)
 of 2021-03-26 built on CIRROCUMULUS
Repository revision: deef5efafb70f4b171265b896505b92b6eef24e6
Repository branch: HEAD
Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.19041
System Description: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro (v10.0.2004.19041.985)

Recent messages:
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
Making completion list...
Quit [2 times]
42 (#o52, #x2a, ?*)
Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"
Type C-x 1 to delete the help window.
scroll-up-command: End of buffer

Configured using:
 'configure --without-dbus --host=x86_64-w64-mingw32
 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=-O2 -static''

Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND NOTIFY W32NOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2
HARFBUZZ ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS MODULES THREADS JSON PDUMPER LCMS2 GMP

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: ENU
  locale-coding-system: cp1252

Major mode: Messages

Minor modes in effect:
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  buffer-read-only: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message rmc puny format-spec rfc822 mml
mml-sec password-cache epa derived epg epg-config gnus-util rmail
rmail-loaddefs text-property-search time-date subr-x seq byte-opt gv
bytecomp byte-compile cconv mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse
rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045
ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils cl-print thingatpt help-fns
radix-tree help-mode easymenu cl-loaddefs cl-lib dired dired-loaddefs
tooltip eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type
mwheel dos-w32 ls-lisp disp-table term/w32-win w32-win w32-vars
term/common-win tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe
tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode elisp-mode lisp-mode
prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch timer
select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core
term/tty-colors frame minibuffer cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang
misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms
cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian
cyrillic chinese composite charscript charprop case-table epa-hook
jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs
button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5
base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable
backquote threads w32notify w32 lcms2 multi-tty make-network-process
emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 59600 11136)
 (symbols 48 6529 3)
 (strings 32 20795 1649)
 (string-bytes 1 574528)
 (vectors 16 10244)
 (vector-slots 8 145373 15886)
 (floats 8 35 98)
 (intervals 56 733 30)
 (buffers 1000 15))

Message #8 received at 49062 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 49062 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Subject: Re: bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:38:09 +0200

Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:

> 3. C-h v a
>
> You get this ephemeral message (check *Messages*):
>
>  Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"

Yes, perhaps that message isn't interesting for this command and should
be removed?  Stefan?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #11 received at 49062 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 49062 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Subject: Re: bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2021 13:30:44 -0400

Lars Ingebrigtsen [2021-06-19 15:38:09] wrote:
> Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:
>> 3. C-h v a
>>
>> You get this ephemeral message (check *Messages*):
>>
>>  Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"

I don't see this here.  I assume there was a RET at the end of `C-h
v a`, but hitting RET there just pops up the *Completions* display.

> Yes, perhaps that message isn't interesting for this command and should
> be removed?  Stefan?

The message is meant to help us fix the NEWS* files so that the code
that searches them gives relevant answers.  IOW it's supposed to point
out a (minor) "bug".


        Stefan

Message #14 received at 49062 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: 49062 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Subject: Re: bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2021 14:13:49 +0200

Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> Lars Ingebrigtsen [2021-06-19 15:38:09] wrote:
>> Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:
>>> 3. C-h v a
>>>
>>> You get this ephemeral message (check *Messages*):
>>>
>>>  Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"
>
> I don't see this here.  I assume there was a RET at the end of `C-h
> v a`, but hitting RET there just pops up the *Completions* display.

Ah, I didn't include the entire test case -- we defined a command called
`a' first.

>> Yes, perhaps that message isn't interesting for this command and should
>> be removed?  Stefan?
>
> The message is meant to help us fix the NEWS* files so that the code
> that searches them gives relevant answers.  IOW it's supposed to point
> out a (minor) "bug".

For very short commands, it's probably not a useful warning, though?
Perhaps...  we could disable the warning if there's no hyphen in the
symbol we're searching for?  Or...  something else.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #17 received at 49062 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: 49062 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Subject: Re: bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 13:52:29 +0200

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> For very short commands, it's probably not a useful warning, though?
> Perhaps...  we could disable the warning if there's no hyphen in the
> symbol we're searching for?  Or...  something else.

I've now done this in Emacs 29.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #22 received at 49062 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 49062 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Subject: Re: bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 10:08:26 -0400

> For very short commands, it's probably not a useful warning, though?
> Perhaps...  we could disable the warning if there's no hyphen in the
> symbol we're searching for?  Or...  something else.

FWIW, I think this hack I added to search the etc/NEWS* files has now
grown to deserve better treatment: we should restrict its search to
things that are properly surrounded by quotes, and (to make it work)
adjust the etc/NEWS* files accordingly.


        Stefan

Message #25 received at 49062 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: larsi <at> gnus.org, 49062 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams <at> oracle.com
Subject: Re: bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 18:08:24 +0300

> Cc: 49062 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
> Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 10:08:26 -0400
> From:  Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
> 
> > For very short commands, it's probably not a useful warning, though?
> > Perhaps...  we could disable the warning if there's no hyphen in the
> > symbol we're searching for?  Or...  something else.
> 
> FWIW, I think this hack I added to search the etc/NEWS* files has now
> grown to deserve better treatment: we should restrict its search to
> things that are properly surrounded by quotes, and (to make it work)
> adjust the etc/NEWS* files accordingly.

Or maybe, before we keep investing more and more energy and time into
this, just remove all that code, and let people search NEWS manually,
if they want?

We have so little resources -- so why waste them on mini-features
whose importance is at best secondary, and which continue drawing more
and more energy, way beyond their usefulness?  We should instead work
on important features -- like better integration of tree-sitter, for
example.

Message #28 received at 49062 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: larsi <at> gnus.org, 49062 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams <at> oracle.com
Subject: Re: bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 12:03:48 -0400

> Or maybe, before we keep investing more and more energy and time into
> this, just remove all that code, and let people search NEWS manually,
> if they want?
>
> We have so little resources -- so why waste them on mini-features
> whose importance is at best secondary, and which continue drawing more
> and more energy, way beyond their usefulness?  We should instead work
> on important features -- like better integration of tree-sitter, for
> example.

Either way works for me: I wrote the code for my own personal use and
will be happy to keep it personal again.  I only installed it because
other people mentioned interest.

Message #31 received at 49062 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: 49062 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Subject: Re: bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 18:08:39 +0200

Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> FWIW, I think this hack I added to search the etc/NEWS* files has now
> grown to deserve better treatment: we should restrict its search to
> things that are properly surrounded by quotes, and (to make it work)
> adjust the etc/NEWS* files accordingly.

Yes, if somebody volunteers to go over the old NEWS files to tag them up
(with quotes), then I'm all for restricting the searches.  (And perhaps
also restrict the searches to headings?)

These days we do always say 'foo', so this wouldn't be an additional
maintenance burden going forward, but somebody has to invest time in
doing this one time task.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #34 received at 49062 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: larsi <at> gnus.org, 49062 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams <at> oracle.com
Subject: Re: bug#49062: 27.2; "Ref found in non-versioned section in "NEWS.22"
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 09:45:03 -0700

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> Or maybe, before we keep investing more and more energy and time into
> this, just remove all that code, and let people search NEWS manually,
> if they want?

FWIW, I find this feature useful, so I hope that we will not remove it.
It's quite a time saver to not have to go scour NEWS every time.

> We have so little resources -- so why waste them on mini-features
> whose importance is at best secondary, and which continue drawing more
> and more energy, way beyond their usefulness?

(I'm still in favour of obsoleting cdl.el, to discourage anyone from
wasting time on that.)

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