Subject: Re: bug#48494: 28.0.50; [PATCH] AngeFTP fails on macOS 10.14 with GNU inetutils FTP

From: Alex Bochannek <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 May 2021 10:49:23 -0700

Michael Albinus <[email-masked]> writes:

> Alex Bochannek <[email-masked]> writes:
>
>>>> > How about making the default value depend on the value of system-type?
>>>>
>>>> You mean something like this?
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>> The more I think about it, the more I am leaning against changing the
>>>> default. I don't fully understand what inetutils ftp is doing and why -e
>>>> is needed. Maybe submitting a bug against inetutils is the right
>>>> approach here?
>>>
>>> Could be.
>>
>> I am sending in a report to [email-masked] and see if they can
>> offer some insight.
>>
>>>> Are there any automated cross-platform tests to see on which platform
>>>> removing -v might break AngeFTP?
>>>
>>> I don't know.  maybe Michael (CC'ed) does.
>>
>> I take back my comment about Windows and -v. On the command line
>> (cmd.exe), it absolutely does behave as the documentation indicated, but
>> I just tried out AngeFTP under Windows 7 (Version 6.1.7601) and it only
>> works with -v. Maybe Michael can explain what is going on there?
>
> Well, I'm not an expert in ftp, and especially, I'm not an expert in ftp
> client command line arguments. While I agree that adding the "-e" option
> to the ftp call in ange-ftp.el sounds reasonable, I have no idea what
> would be broken with some clients.

That was my primary concern. I looked at EMBA to see if there are any
regression tests that would catch something like this, but didn't see
anything. I am happy to help out with EMBA if need be, by the way.

> A check for system-type is not sufficient, for every system there are
> different ftp clients, which could behave different. If we want to add a
> check for command argument availability, we would need to fire a test
> call, and to analyze, whether given command arguments are supported.

While I agree in principle, the way AngeFTP works pretty clearly assumes
the client to present the BSD FTP command line interface.

> We should take into consideration, that the default value for
> ange-ftp-ftp-program-args hasn't been changed for at least 21 years. We
> should also take into consideration, that ftp is being phased out in
> browsers like Chrome and Firefox; its importance is decreasing. So I

Which is why I am using AngeFTP. The convenient browser-based interfaces
are gone and I am reverting to the same interface I use for other remote
file access (TRAMP).

> propose to not change anything, and let users customize
> ange-ftp-ftp-program-args to their needs.

I agree with that and I am fine with this bug being closed out as "won't
fix" or some equivalent thereof. I submitted a bug against inetutils
(don't have a bug number yet) and the underlying issue I saw on macOS
should probably be addressed there. Until then I can either set
ange-ftp-ftp-program-args or use tnftp.

> Best regards, Michael.

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated!

-- 
Alex.