From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 11 03:47:06 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2021 07:47:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34845 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgN6f-0000aF-TE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 03:47:06 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:55590) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgN6d-0000a6-AO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 03:47:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56198) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lgN6d-0007Kb-1l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 03:47:03 -0400 Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.25]:49239) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lgN6b-00019Q-2e for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 03:47:02 -0400 Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 557A25C0105 for ; Tue, 11 May 2021 03:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 11 May 2021 03:46:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=secretsauce.net; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s= fm3; bh=1R091gnThmpqJuWiY9oCxximwgeYF3ZMYqnry40X5VA=; b=Amb6O8Oa yeUt+2+2M+lOijOPJLRMJWBWADOK16yRO+QL7wyvipiqYHxYBERqp7WCIwpM6pCS LxNP0/t//EWLiaiuFaiTjUxM8L/nunS/YAXFZw7eVPgT3U3nshz7Ij+W2ABOAE/O LKWoXP6fn8B4I28R1n4+2A8hYWqjLEiuEHX/MvhmGOrY3EYJ2EMEHPviOBO70ttD 928DmZL9y82IoJXWx/Q2S4FicaW5vAjDTLNU5SnTcsMhavMCR0i/1ouSQ5of1l2Q xENhUUlIfQzSb3i/tcqLHQ5l+yxGJuylYHXaHR/09Vnr5LZ727NNoH727QC7o9YR 0WR+3fr7aaGaPw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:message-id :mime-version:subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=1R091gnThmpqJuWiY9oCxximwgeYF 3ZMYqnry40X5VA=; b=RDTNlzgHNqryPJrNVyp3a2kh3vX11F4ste5EdwNi15xpU sfpHWWsDjKvJgYGWl32wQ12EGBZHJGQTFCm6Jeg/GIUOCvX/8oeIuF0dtlPPKUs7 DaDn+5WcfYwFAbRXIp/rLUzNk+M2CTE9CnFHCOL77vLdXYtu63Mh+f+ZCzoKD4h6 o1nT/TZu+yoLEMPJo6oF2k73GCqOb5dfstvQfnALmukXHzkxHJkf43DNMnOCqVYm CoM+5N9JKdpqvpv5m3TbnmAVzLsFz4kOJgtZhWPnI6R1kGGvgFoiu/Fv6non9szd OjYk76kwLx9QKwAfSKZ/Lmupnvh2JQsBe+JSTjDQg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrvdegledguddvgecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhephffvufffkfggtgesthdtredttd dttdenucfhrhhomhepffhimhgrucfmohhgrghnuceoughimhgrsehsvggtrhgvthhsrghu tggvrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeeiteelvdfgieeuleeghffhueehkeetie dugffhvefffffhjedugfetfeehhffhgeenucffohhmrghinhepshgvtghrvghtshgruhgt vgdrnhgvthenucfkphepuddtjedrvddutddrvddufedrvdegfeenucevlhhushhtvghruf hiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeguihhmrgesshgvtghrvghtshgr uhgtvgdrnhgvth X-ME-Proxy: Received: from localhost (107-210-213-243.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net [107.210.213.243]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA for ; Tue, 11 May 2021 03:46:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Dima Kogan To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 00:47:10 -0700 Message-ID: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.25; envelope-from=dima@secretsauce.net; helo=out1-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) Hi. I maintain Debian packages of bleeding-edge emacs builds: http://emacs.secretsauce.net/ Recently I enabled the native-comp flags for these packages. The results mostly work, but a user sent me a bug report whose cause I just tracked down. Some of this is probably my fault, as the packager, but there's an emacs bug here too. To tickle the bug the user needs to install the emacs-snapshot package, but NOT the emacs-snapshot-el package. This results in the .elc files being shipped, but NOT the .el files. This is a valid way to do it without the native-comp patches, and the Debian emacs packages have allowed this since forever. If you install emacs like this, this happens: $ emacs-snapshot -Q -batch -f batch-native-compile empty.el Fatal error 11: Segmentation fault The C backtrace is 6033 frames long, which can't be good. xbacktrace says this: (gdb) xbacktrace "display-warning" (0xffebcfd8) "display-warning" (0xffebd5d8) .... lots more "display-warning" "locate-file" (0xffffe498) "command-line" (0xffffe5a0) "normal-top-level" (0xffffe640) And the warning itself is: "Cannot look-up eln file as no source file was found for /usr/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.elc" So something somewhere wanted to throw a warning, and this warning tried to find its own sources, couldn't do it, and threw another warning. And so on. So first off, it'd be great if emacs could handle this without such a recursive failure mode. It took me a long time to figure out what's happening, and a plain-text error message on the console would have been nice. And second: how should this be packaged? Is shipping the .el files a hard requirement now? Thanks! From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 11 04:37:06 2021 Received: (at 48342) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2021 08:37:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34869 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgNt4-0001zj-Gv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 04:37:06 -0400 Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:51659) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgNt2-0001zY-OL for 48342@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 04:37:05 -0400 Received: from mab (ma.sdf.org [205.166.94.33]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 14B8b1TB017371 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Tue, 11 May 2021 08:37:02 GMT From: Andrea Corallo To: Dima Kogan Subject: Re: bug#48342: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available References: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 08:37:01 +0000 In-Reply-To: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> (Dima Kogan's message of "Tue, 11 May 2021 00:47:10 -0700") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48342 Cc: 48342@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Dima Kogan writes: > Hi. I maintain Debian packages of bleeding-edge emacs builds: > > http://emacs.secretsauce.net/ > > Recently I enabled the native-comp flags for these packages. The results > mostly work, but a user sent me a bug report whose cause I just tracked > down. Some of this is probably my fault, as the packager, but there's an > emacs bug here too. > > To tickle the bug the user needs to install the emacs-snapshot package, > but NOT the emacs-snapshot-el package. This results in the .elc files > being shipped, but NOT the .el files. This is a valid way to do it > without the native-comp patches, and the Debian emacs packages have > allowed this since forever. > > If you install emacs like this, this happens: > > $ emacs-snapshot -Q -batch -f batch-native-compile empty.el > > Fatal error 11: Segmentation fault > > The C backtrace is 6033 frames long, which can't be good. xbacktrace > says this: > > (gdb) xbacktrace > "display-warning" (0xffebcfd8) > "display-warning" (0xffebd5d8) > .... lots more "display-warning" > "locate-file" (0xffffe498) > "command-line" (0xffffe5a0) > "normal-top-level" (0xffffe640) > > And the warning itself is: > > "Cannot look-up eln file as no source file was found for /usr/share/emacs/28.0.50/lisp/emacs-lisp/warnings.elc" > > So something somewhere wanted to throw a warning, and this warning tried > to find its own sources, couldn't do it, and threw another warning. And > so on. > > So first off, it'd be great if emacs could handle this without such a > recursive failure mode. It took me a long time to figure out what's > happening, and a plain-text error message on the console would have been > nice. Hi Dima, could you share the Lisp backtrace? If you have loaded the .gdbinit shipped with the repot this will be at the bottom of the gdb backtrace. > And second: how should this be packaged? Is shipping the .el files a > hard requirement now? Yes if you want the native compiler to be able to compile files, otherwise you should either native compile all lisp files Ahead of Time or set `comp-deferred-compilation' to nil in early init so that Emacs will not try to native compile bytecode being loaded. Thanks Andrea From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 11 04:43:59 2021 Received: (at 48342) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2021 08:43:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34880 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgNzj-0002Cq-Fo for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 04:43:59 -0400 Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.25]:57565) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgNzg-0002CX-R4 for 48342@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 04:43:57 -0400 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C37B5C00E1; Tue, 11 May 2021 04:43:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 11 May 2021 04:43:51 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=secretsauce.net; h=references:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=fm3; bh=/lzsBIyDBGwwJYkrHqqU7cWrLY Iu3gpSj6FsU7+cIic=; b=vFKSKpTx8z9+Y2pnAcLtqtTOy5ja4TB6R5+fhjFqKg qhe0Jp5xVeobGZwMAmCsQI2s70ehv/NDKI5aou//v2IayqqouHMiqb5rBVZRlIs1 uLMR8FCKvS+ruGzt8pUPlnrbEgKHrtId2IOAHdVleQ1xYZ9o23vyRJCceBKURuXD U9JUfL2IA/ZhsOv9/X6wi5WdmIYtcu32ADUZBnwYLyKkpkOUxu2RRCWyjZ7sqWBf /F/pXY4AgKEhvGYKnDYosdAqX+SKk6gIOwRcgZUtpKHbxm8PDu08ZgECIM65QrdQ 0uAkgdpe4slze+tGZLwBxCnLbyhVqw96mwiW0bLF2bog== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=/lzsBI yDBGwwJYkrHqqU7cWrLYIu3gpSj6FsU7+cIic=; b=QhAesu8KMYTLZCXvL9OR1D VbE/vAD5b7B1yuyFoBQs5VSR+pd3h/E82xEW0Vlou/gpEdkAs+0aA90oifBxRkRQ WlPvvQZbO+fp09U+t3PhycgxjuG3XqelgNfrSGX3I5A1MOp+RB/nFDLz8Ih2chJR Il9YLlJ6AmZwC01bJPWuOXV60VRoe63kTyh0xsC77jLACzOlhuARLKaIt+c+JlRQ ZnEjz4KrQku1nnYYpzIG4PDtdnTuDgqW6bqQ06rjGaabqfXh7w9N/HLpgIBlnUOc zVP5jatYL+f4f4SDhdOt44aGG/IOZ3TTMm4haQw28xadWAzHR5aD1xONDOoRw97w == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrvdehtddgtdekucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpehffgfhvffujgffkfggtgesthdtre dttdertdenucfhrhhomhepffhimhgrucfmohhgrghnuceoughimhgrsehsvggtrhgvthhs rghutggvrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeefveefgfettdefvdetgfekvddtff evhfevleelhfejheelgfduffdtieduueekheenucfkphepuddtjedrvddutddrvddufedr vdegfeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe guihhmrgesshgvtghrvghtshgruhgtvgdrnhgvth X-ME-Proxy: Received: from localhost (107-210-213-243.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net [107.210.213.243]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, 11 May 2021 04:43:50 -0400 (EDT) References: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> User-agent: mu4e 1.4.15; emacs 28.0.50 From: Dima Kogan To: Andrea Corallo Subject: Re: bug#48342: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available In-reply-to: Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 01:44:03 -0700 Message-ID: <875yzp1wz0.fsf@secretsauce.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48342 Cc: 48342@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Andrea Corallo writes: > could you share the Lisp backtrace? If you have loaded the .gdbinit > shipped with the repot this will be at the bottom of the gdb > backtrace. Hi Andrea. The backtrace looks like this: "display-warning" (0xffebcfd8) "display-warning" (0xffebd5d8) "display-warning" (0xffebdbd8) "display-warning" (0xffebe1d8) "display-warning" (0xffebe7d8) "display-warning" (0xffebedd8) "display-warning" (0xffebf3d8) "display-warning" (0xffebf9d8) "display-warning" (0xffebffd8) "display-warning" (0xffec05d8) "display-warning" (0xffec0bd8) "display-warning" (0xffec11d8) "display-warning" (0xffec17d8) "display-warning" (0xffec1dd8) "display-warning" (0xffec23d8) "display-warning" (0xffec29d8) "display-warning" (0xffec2fd8) "display-warning" (0xffec35d8) "display-warning" (0xffec3bd8) "display-warning" (0xffec41d8) "display-warning" (0xffec47d8) "display-warning" (0xffec4dd8) "display-warning" (0xffec59d8) "display-warning" (0xffec5fd8) "display-warning" (0xffec65d8) "debug" (0xffec6bd8) "substitute-env-vars" (0xffec6e28) "substitute-env-in-file-name" (0xffec6ec8) "display-warning" (0xffec7248) ... 1000s more "display-warning" "locate-file" (0xffffe498) "command-line" (0xffffe5a0) "normal-top-level" (0xffffe640) >> And second: how should this be packaged? Is shipping the .el files a >> hard requirement now? > Yes if you want the native compiler to be able to compile files, > otherwise you should either native compile all lisp files Ahead of Time > or set `comp-deferred-compilation' to nil in early init so that Emacs > will not try to native compile bytecode being loaded. That's helpful. Thanks. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 11 08:33:29 2021 Received: (at 48342) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2021 12:33:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35276 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgRZp-00078O-Gi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 08:33:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:60472) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgRZn-00078C-UZ for 48342@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 08:33:28 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:47612) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lgRZi-00009o-Jr; Tue, 11 May 2021 08:33:22 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4205 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lgRZi-0003BO-6M; Tue, 11 May 2021 08:33:22 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 15:33:28 +0300 Message-Id: <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Dima Kogan In-Reply-To: <875yzp1wz0.fsf@secretsauce.net> (message from Dima Kogan on Tue, 11 May 2021 01:44:03 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#48342: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available References: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> <875yzp1wz0.fsf@secretsauce.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48342 Cc: 48342@debbugs.gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Dima Kogan > Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 01:44:03 -0700 > Cc: 48342@debbugs.gnu.org > > Andrea Corallo writes: > > > could you share the Lisp backtrace? If you have loaded the .gdbinit > > shipped with the repot this will be at the bottom of the gdb > > backtrace. > > Hi Andrea. The backtrace looks like this: > > "display-warning" (0xffebcfd8) > "display-warning" (0xffebd5d8) > "display-warning" (0xffebdbd8) > "display-warning" (0xffebe1d8) Any idea how come display-warning calls itself? > > Yes if you want the native compiler to be able to compile files, > > otherwise you should either native compile all lisp files Ahead of Time > > or set `comp-deferred-compilation' to nil in early init so that Emacs > > will not try to native compile bytecode being loaded. > > That's helpful. Thanks. Note that if you will be distributing the *.eln files, I think the GPL requires you to make the *.el files available. In fact, this is so even with the *.elc files. So I'm not sure I understand how you could distribute only the *.elc files until now: isn't that contrary to GPL? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 11 13:00:49 2021 Received: (at 48342) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2021 17:00:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37238 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgVkX-00051u-Ai for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:00:49 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:46922) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgVkV-0004zN-Jz for 48342@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:00:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1620752446; bh=aO3582sal+QbRWvKzKjN5pUaKZhKImrVdzKqCVOr9H0=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=oP4uXDmxBQHtwQZr1+R6rUhnOaOsrRLPn3h7Vnd8IbAh4cVvQ+PdXM7clNLsotAoH XQxJvijLCkBrAk/4dqAyvb9DTeklh+zn97UgZtziEX5gqXNuA9QSdEEQV6X3Gy4i4b f/t60avVTRoVNpNh7vHoS0RBBnrW+Pec+YFUeKlh6n+WuwkpdgfhlmvFI7n36coitT h2hBfI8Mt+CJd0ViK5zr9/js5EKz1y3ce7YlGgXQkfh8ToGnUgCs9bgIe7CKrVVb3G 2lUaMp2zblXV+EGKZe1BK7kKH9KfgQ1VBOTOo9xEjHFSOw06kXDxJzekxZpwDF7mHH YJT8jiSW+KnTA== Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 17:00:46 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48342: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available In-Reply-To: <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> <875yzp1wz0.fsf@secretsauce.net> <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48342 Cc: Dima Kogan , 48342@debbugs.gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>> Yes if you want the native compiler to be able to compile files, >>> otherwise you should either native compile all lisp files Ahead of >>> Time or set `comp-deferred-compilation' to nil in early init so that >>> Emacs will not try to native compile bytecode being loaded. >> >> That's helpful. Thanks. > > Note that if you will be distributing the *.eln files, I think the GPL > requires you to make the *.el files available. In fact, this is so even > with the *.elc files. So I'm not sure I understand how you could > distribute only the *.elc files until now: isn't that contrary to GPL? > Why would that be contrary to the GPL? The *.el files are available on Debian and Debian-derived distrbutions, but Debian has chosen to make the distribution of Emacs more modular, and each "logical part" of Emacs is packaged separately: - the emacs package (which is "a metapackage that will always depend on the latest recommended Emacs variant") depends on emacs-gtk or emacs-lucid or emacs-nox (= terminal-only) - the emacs-gtk, emacs-lucid and emacs-nox packages (which contain the Emacs binary and corresponding pdmp files) all depend on on emacs-bin-common and emacs-common, and suggest emacs-common-non-dfsg - the emacs-bin-common package (which contains the ctags, ebrowse, emacsclient, etags, hexl and rcs2log binaries) depends on emacs-common - the emacs-common package (which contains the etc/ directory and the elc files) recommends emacs-el and suggests emacs-common-non-dfsg - the emacs-el package contains the el files - the emacs-common-non-dfsg contains the info files From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 11 13:12:44 2021 Received: (at 48342) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2021 17:12:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37246 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgVw3-0006hJ-Pi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:12:43 -0400 Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:51417) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgVvz-0006h6-EX for 48342@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:12:42 -0400 Received: from mab (ma.sdf.org [205.166.94.33]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 14BHCale017026 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Tue, 11 May 2021 17:12:36 GMT From: Andrea Corallo To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48342: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available References: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> <875yzp1wz0.fsf@secretsauce.net> <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 17:12:36 +0000 In-Reply-To: <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 11 May 2021 15:33:28 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48342 Cc: Dima Kogan , 48342@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Dima Kogan >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 01:44:03 -0700 >> Cc: 48342@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> Andrea Corallo writes: >> >> > could you share the Lisp backtrace? If you have loaded the .gdbinit >> > shipped with the repot this will be at the bottom of the gdb >> > backtrace. >> >> Hi Andrea. The backtrace looks like this: >> >> "display-warning" (0xffebcfd8) >> "display-warning" (0xffebd5d8) >> "display-warning" (0xffebdbd8) >> "display-warning" (0xffebe1d8) > > Any idea how come display-warning calls itself? Nothing evident to me ATM. Dima, I'd like to have a look to the full C backtrace, would be possible to share it? Thanks Andrea From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 11 13:29:14 2021 Received: (at 48342) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2021 17:29:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37279 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgWC2-00077L-3W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:29:14 -0400 Received: from wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.20]:47777) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgWC1-000776-14 for 48342@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:29:13 -0400 Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E46815FB; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:29:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 11 May 2021 13:29:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=secretsauce.net; h=references:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=fm3; bh=kVkdum7vtaHappmwpq5mgJD+Cd FRAd13gfti12vn/9I=; b=RYyFq+Vi2fg+rhxmHUwpERzcnoeRDZIB7ltMctAtC5 aqaXShdBXxNaMDvQ2RY+ILORAO6X/GJBsppZGTo/ZVmBOve8/pj5CAslFOG4CzxP /XroFd/BeS6egSDwT7t3/VvZFJx4nLCVPLkx7mpDBp8w4i6hMTjQ4bRAdna9VOad kOknK7x3T6SQrfmXXKnfhgpvSodgpvrQpon+5xKytc92DGsXLdeGQoOh+/hyNXc3 YpeJk2he+gv7REB1AaLVSwCevoMgHrh9YaApyOdvaGVTu4F4Vb+7wc7YL+msebrD vzQvGc1nKDdRpLfcFSUWOI7rxUN9tfB04sa0ezFxEHag== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=kVkdum 7vtaHappmwpq5mgJD+CdFRAd13gfti12vn/9I=; b=BS9SE+hIQjQyG6AszFvmJB JLZAWbCjgAOeZnImK7aOrAu3JAPXllW0S4LsDuzZXajXzP9AmHdVsxTmSTAHtc5V OgvHTaxL7rvD+UnnFUvC1sEg1+J+z1vgiixYP/vml9L4koeRVCdEKQiCqwgHJeMP 85PvsIrd3fZNnhzhTMTX+Udz2CN343rIiI+FQqUhZg8m1AKeyaduoWJx6kwaijZn jUV/i+0wUuQ/S7Y3nmhCkdQQqfUbOMC1w1nGtZ+uo+Vc9uQeB3KnFFAA8FHzsAng HqrXLrhR22o0gZVwpQ3gGwluwkEw95Ofw6Px+kTTkoNaT8h4qLLL9g/yaeRLoJMw == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrvdehtddgudduhecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpehffgfhvffujgffkfggtgesthdtredttdertdenucfhrhhomhepffhimhgr ucfmohhgrghnuceoughimhgrsehsvggtrhgvthhsrghutggvrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpeehvdfgudefhfeiudeigfejgeeiheeghfffhfekheeugeefleetheetjeeu udeggfenucffohhmrghinhepghhithhhuhgsrdgtohhmnecukfhppedutdejrddvuddtrd dvudefrddvgeefnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhf rhhomhepughimhgrsehsvggtrhgvthhsrghutggvrdhnvght X-ME-Proxy: Received: from localhost (107-210-213-243.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net [107.210.213.243]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:29:06 -0400 (EDT) References: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> <875yzp1wz0.fsf@secretsauce.net> <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.4.15; emacs 28.0.50 From: Dima Kogan To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48342: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available In-reply-to: <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 10:29:20 -0700 Message-ID: <87zgx1yya7.fsf@secretsauce.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48342 Cc: 48342@debbugs.gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > Any idea how come display-warning calls itself? I'm here: https://github.com/emacs-mirror/emacs/commit/bb8b8d A single recursive cycle in the C backtrace looks like this: #21 0x000055555573b282 in maybe_swap_for_eln (no_native=no_native@entry=false, filename=filename@entry=0x7fffffebd780, fd=fd@entry=0x7fffffebd77c, mtime=...) at lread.c:1713 #22 0x000055555573ba5d in openp (path=0x555555d75e63, str=0x7fffeefb3a1c, suffixes=, storeptr=0x7fffffebd958, predicate=0x0, newer=false, no_native=false) at ../lib/stat-time.h:149 #23 0x000055555573ed05 in Fload (file=0x7fffeefb3a1c, noerror=0x0, nomessage=0x30, nosuffix=0x0, must_suffix=) at lisp.h:1002 #24 0x000055555573faef in save_match_data_load (file=0x7fffeefb3a1c, noerror=noerror@entry=0x0, nomessage=nomessage@entry=0x30, nosuffix=nosuffix@entry=0x0, must_suffix=must_suffix@entry=0x30) at lread.c:1616 #25 0x0000555555713d57 in Fautoload_do_load (fundef=0x7fffef14ed9b, funname=0x2aaa99569808, macro_only=0x0) at eval.c:2308 #26 0x0000555555714040 in Ffuncall (nargs=3, args=0x7fffffebdbd0) at lisp.h:1002 #27 0x0000555555714211 in call2 (fn=, arg1=arg1@entry=0x4650, arg2=arg2@entry=0x555555f11bf4) at eval.c:2903 #28 0x000055555573b282 in maybe_swap_for_eln (no_native=no_native@entry=false, filename=filename@entry=0x7fffffebdd80, fd=fd@entry=0x7fffffebdd7c, mtime=...) at lread.c:1713 The maybe_swap_for_el() call in Frame #28 checks for the sources, sees that the file on disk doesn't exist, and throws the warning as expected: Code: call2 (intern_c_string ("display-warning") Full context: https://github.com/emacs-mirror/emacs/blob/bb8b8d717f91a85ca41de9e82246e6975e1ed719/src/lread.c#L1713 Frame #26 is the (display-warning ...) Frame #25 is (autoload-do-load ... 'display-warning) Frame #23 is (load "warnings" ...) The backtrace isn't right about the line number in frame #22, but that function is in lread.c. It's trying to compile "warnings.el". > Note that if you will be distributing the *.eln files, I think the GPL > requires you to make the *.el files available. In fact, this is so > even with the *.elc files. So I'm not sure I understand how you could > distribute only the *.elc files until now: isn't that contrary to GPL? The .el files are available, but the user doesn't have to install them. Just like the .c sources are available, but the user can install just the pre-built binaries if they want to. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 11 13:43:31 2021 Received: (at 48342) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2021 17:43:32 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37312 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgWPr-0007U7-Mq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:43:31 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51348) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgWPp-0007Tv-Oy for 48342@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:43:30 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:58944) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lgWPk-0005t6-H4; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:43:24 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3657 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lgWPj-0003oG-33; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:43:24 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 20:43:28 +0300 Message-Id: <83r1id414v.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Dima Kogan In-Reply-To: <87zgx1yya7.fsf@secretsauce.net> (message from Dima Kogan on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:29:20 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#48342: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available References: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> <875yzp1wz0.fsf@secretsauce.net> <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgx1yya7.fsf@secretsauce.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48342 Cc: 48342@debbugs.gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Dima Kogan > Cc: akrl@sdf.org, 48342@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 10:29:20 -0700 > > > Note that if you will be distributing the *.eln files, I think the GPL > > requires you to make the *.el files available. In fact, this is so > > even with the *.elc files. So I'm not sure I understand how you could > > distribute only the *.elc files until now: isn't that contrary to GPL? > > The .el files are available, but the user doesn't have to install them. > Just like the .c sources are available, but the user can install just > the pre-built binaries if they want to. That's a problematic interpretation of the GPL, IME: this way, how can the user be sure he/she will be able to obtain at a later date the sources of the exact binary he/she is running? And the same question for Lisp files and the corresponding *.elc/*.eln. The only way to make sure is to have them together. But I don't intend to argue more about that. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 11 13:45:47 2021 Received: (at 48342) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2021 17:45:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37316 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgWS3-0007Xi-4e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:45:47 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51750) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgWRx-0007XR-I2 for 48342@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:45:45 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:59036) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lgWRs-0007MN-5n; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:45:36 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3799 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lgWRr-00047x-8l; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:45:35 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 20:45:43 +0300 Message-Id: <83pmxx4114.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Dima Kogan In-Reply-To: <87zgx1yya7.fsf@secretsauce.net> (message from Dima Kogan on Tue, 11 May 2021 10:29:20 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#48342: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available References: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> <875yzp1wz0.fsf@secretsauce.net> <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgx1yya7.fsf@secretsauce.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48342 Cc: 48342@debbugs.gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Dima Kogan > Cc: akrl@sdf.org, 48342@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 10:29:20 -0700 > > The maybe_swap_for_el() call in Frame #28 checks for the sources, sees > that the file on disk doesn't exist, and throws the warning as expected: > > Code: > call2 (intern_c_string ("display-warning") > Full context: > https://github.com/emacs-mirror/emacs/blob/bb8b8d717f91a85ca41de9e82246e6975e1ed719/src/lread.c#L1713 > > Frame #26 is the (display-warning ...) > > Frame #25 is (autoload-do-load ... 'display-warning) > > Frame #23 is (load "warnings" ...) > > The backtrace isn't right about the line number in frame #22, but that > function is in lread.c. It's trying to compile "warnings.el". I guess when we find that a source for some .elc file is not available, we should add its .el name to native-comp-deferred-compilation-deny-list? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 11 13:56:58 2021 Received: (at 48342) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2021 17:56:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37322 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgWcs-0007nQ-87 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:56:58 -0400 Received: from wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.20]:38903) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgWcq-0007nC-20 for 48342@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:56:56 -0400 Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37DA51656; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:56:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 11 May 2021 13:56:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=secretsauce.net; h=references:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=fm3; bh=KbZiTeXWflsZGzhMRf4B6pxIgk etc7EJ1HgZmVx5dVE=; b=ZcjHLM5OX25ze/E8NxZzMT8FcQRqjsbiuSRwk1N/d/ qnOwCBWgRrp+jiVGEADFOG5pF5IyjFvW5DeTSC3NdYy4C9KcSRtI5LWZu+rJZcvt I7C/xG4nTvq+6GjCSz/lg8OV012pcw8038VQmIooVyK7M51w3ny435MZfbgV/2aR WfHLt7RFlEN2A/xwSC0tocPVG6xvYwNpP81BaJ1vQuEup9dFJ+FSP0ZJtsMorkZD 65SeIqPCujNFy9jm84ZN+TUZkdbf5Lcm4fcwQfFWl35bn9EqzoAIn6RQ4m9VNZr2 PhzO4091Kh5Z39xRfAIAsv3J97wYC6h2AxGryHYKePjQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=KbZiTe XWflsZGzhMRf4B6pxIgketc7EJ1HgZmVx5dVE=; b=e9DsAvfg2f0w9JeNmEHS4x t2uIJJBHcwDg8bMBtVzfTB6jVS2SNu9hffXwYRsFI8hIE854qaIKWjWuyFaqS0+L maFXo2SRaN1pKHrMjwybsEgdftW9Be9oSoqClOno+TCVebkMrr9wGN+9YKvnfQsu A5pqSJjLar/vw4K7q4k7sInWSXtPh8E3gvAXkiktCwK12776aBhjPNOS+BVoDYAt Y0xPYlhkP24tK8+ZG6+LdCQvQTp1EGTe6nYW5QWYLZHclN2lO0ToTVtfKdJRQCOq n+WsnYMB632c7ojQk/nA6emjlfj5dPPhXlBo9+WmGTWIeIJSKWgTbgeZfZzpL9/Q == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrvdehtddguddvtdcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpehffgfhvffujgffkfggtgesthdtredttdertdenucfhrhhomhepffhimhgr ucfmohhgrghnuceoughimhgrsehsvggtrhgvthhsrghutggvrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpeefveefgfettdefvdetgfekvddtffevhfevleelhfejheelgfduffdtiedu ueekheenucfkphepuddtjedrvddutddrvddufedrvdegfeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiii gvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeguihhmrgesshgvtghrvghtshgruhgt vgdrnhgvth X-ME-Proxy: Received: from localhost (107-210-213-243.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net [107.210.213.243]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, 11 May 2021 13:56:49 -0400 (EDT) References: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> <875yzp1wz0.fsf@secretsauce.net> <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgx1yya7.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83r1id414v.fsf@gnu.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.4.15; emacs 28.0.50 From: Dima Kogan To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48342: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available In-reply-to: <83r1id414v.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 10:57:03 -0700 Message-ID: <87tun9yx00.fsf@secretsauce.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48342 Cc: 48342@debbugs.gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> > Note that if you will be distributing the *.eln files, I think the GPL >> > requires you to make the *.el files available. In fact, this is so >> > even with the *.elc files. So I'm not sure I understand how you could >> > distribute only the *.elc files until now: isn't that contrary to GPL? >> >> The .el files are available, but the user doesn't have to install them. >> Just like the .c sources are available, but the user can install just >> the pre-built binaries if they want to. > > That's a problematic interpretation of the GPL, IME: this way, how can > the user be sure he/she will be able to obtain at a later date the > sources of the exact binary he/she is running? And the same question > for Lisp files and the corresponding *.elc/*.eln. The only way to > make sure is to have them together. Debian (an every other distro I'm guessing) has been doing it like this for a really long time. Everything is versioned. When the distributor makes packages, they build and ship all the packages together: sources, binaries, .el, .elc, and so on. When a user installs the packages at a later time, they don't have to download and install the whole set. A user installs "emacs" version "abc". The version string includes the upstream version that select a specific emacs release AND the packaging version. At any later point in time the user can install "emacs-el" version "abc" or get the sources for emacs, again at version "abc". The identical version numbers guarantee that they're downloading packages the distributor built at the same time as the "emacs" package the user has already. It works. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 11 14:57:37 2021 Received: (at 48342) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2021 18:57:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37414 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgXZY-0000r4-RA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 14:57:37 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:47080) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgXZW-0000qv-JX for 48342@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 14:57:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1620759453; bh=X8gKbNsI6PjQS5CqKPaw3hADjAFWHqKZucej9MVcPbY=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=fyWB6w5//r3/r7hr1fuymXjUvZ2DR3p3vpZRCjxCGbfLx3D5ApXthVSqtQnRXmpQu zc6hSCW27Bdmpr8UikGZatL4moAhnXt1gFXh5FZwgmEVOR7+oX/ZZczgxH3EQCfu0q /5ld3n9HDtaoz72WAUB7A3Jzs/LNEYkn/fN2E6A6Z36iHuSpOlLvMYWfdhhE8ZHbgW U3pHXDOEieN7r8yKB0/t1Tm87jO3FZDCWXR5vLusmfFMAcN1pnu0xcHp2MKHu6FWko bda5SOfIC4E2HXFxVaKCzNq+4Prp79rf6EeSZesHMARs50CAKrq68WjhRLpm92X/Lw DReyZaE0nhMjg== Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 18:57:32 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Dima Kogan Subject: Re: bug#48342: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available In-Reply-To: <87tun9yx00.fsf@secretsauce.net> Message-ID: References: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> <875yzp1wz0.fsf@secretsauce.net> <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgx1yya7.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83r1id414v.fsf@gnu.org> <87tun9yx00.fsf@secretsauce.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48342 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 48342@debbugs.gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> That's a problematic interpretation of the GPL, IME: this way, how can >> the user be sure he/she will be able to obtain at a later date the >> sources of the exact binary he/she is running? And the same question >> for Lisp files and the corresponding *.elc/*.eln. The only way to make >> sure is to have them together. > > Debian (an every other distro I'm guessing) has been doing it like this > for a really long time. Everything is versioned. When the distributor > makes packages, they build and ship all the packages together: sources, > binaries, .el, .elc, and so on. > > When a user installs the packages at a later time, they don't have to > download and install the whole set. A user installs "emacs" version > "abc". The version string includes the upstream version that select a > specific emacs release AND the packaging version. At any later point in > time the user can install "emacs-el" version "abc" or get the sources > for emacs, again at version "abc". The identical version numbers > guarantee that they're downloading packages the distributor built at the > same time as the "emacs" package the user has already. It works. > I think that doesn't completely answer Eli's question: "how can the user be sure he/she will be able to obtain at a later date the sources of the exact binary he/she is running?" Debian at least maintains a separate repository (snapshot.debian.org) in which you can find each version of each package distributed by Debian after March 2005, in both source and binary form. Yes, that's quite a lot of data: that archive currently occupies ~100 TB. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 11 15:11:37 2021 Received: (at 48342) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2021 19:11:37 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37429 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgXn7-0001CD-J0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 15:11:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39808) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgXn6-0001C0-IQ for 48342@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 15:11:37 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33180) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lgXn0-0006pU-Vo; Tue, 11 May 2021 15:11:30 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1115 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lgXn0-0006hj-D6; Tue, 11 May 2021 15:11:30 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 22:11:38 +0300 Message-Id: <83k0o53x1x.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: (message from Gregory Heytings on Tue, 11 May 2021 18:57:32 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#48342: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available References: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> <875yzp1wz0.fsf@secretsauce.net> <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgx1yya7.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83r1id414v.fsf@gnu.org> <87tun9yx00.fsf@secretsauce.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48342 Cc: dima@secretsauce.net, 48342@debbugs.gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 18:57:32 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: Eli Zaretskii , 48342@debbugs.gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org > > Debian at least maintains a separate repository (snapshot.debian.org) in > which you can find each version of each package distributed by Debian > after March 2005, in both source and binary form. Yes, that's quite a lot > of data: that archive currently occupies ~100 TB. My concern is about users who still have Emacs before March 2005. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 11 15:38:34 2021 Received: (at 48342) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2021 19:38:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37483 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgYDC-0001rR-2E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 15:38:34 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:47156) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgYD9-0001rI-AP for 48342@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 15:38:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1620761910; bh=KiQVgplRNSoTpnrRrTZCCLvhR9taNAYqHn9M6ZKLoLY=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=DOicGAhGgAyLTzI24XR3fiJSiKzsa1H3h6zAI90c/wBiXcmyetnAv3xgbZf1maWbU qwJDCoI69cJVRq5VRv7p/GEJRCy+NZSEtlYZCBaiDT7NYt4v0fpiHKi1rqgSf15Tv9 jQfoBzNI5Vnjbwd9fPAb8CV9BE7gdXn4PdWIWKb/JNK9+7YjnTx2nOtz7yBxGBb/FW byKh19jzncKO+XApEBPrF5P86QcAIN4iT5d9suQ/06akAFt9uXo9nH6khIngPeqbLQ kzTHiiNNh0Oecjd91OoQchSC9aDmms2kvJfZNfshXpx81aR5SGPDATzhnvJ3xIoTHF YbeIbMo+oIoRw== Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 19:38:30 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48342: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available In-Reply-To: <83k0o53x1x.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> <875yzp1wz0.fsf@secretsauce.net> <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgx1yya7.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83r1id414v.fsf@gnu.org> <87tun9yx00.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83k0o53x1x.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48342 Cc: dima@secretsauce.net, 48342@debbugs.gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> Debian at least maintains a separate repository (snapshot.debian.org) >> in which you can find each version of each package distributed by >> Debian after March 2005, in both source and binary form. Yes, that's >> quite a lot of data: that archive currently occupies ~100 TB. > > My concern is about users who still have Emacs before March 2005. > I forgot to mention that snapshot.debian.org also contains a copy of all earlier stable releases of Debian since ~1995. For Emacs, the oldest version in that archive is Emacs 19.29... From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 11 15:43:24 2021 Received: (at 48342) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2021 19:43:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37488 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgYHs-0001yH-JI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 15:43:24 -0400 Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:52354) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgYHq-0001y8-Ar for 48342@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 15:43:23 -0400 Received: from mab (ma.sdf.org [205.166.94.33]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 14BJhLdH010992 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Tue, 11 May 2021 19:43:21 GMT From: Andrea Corallo To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48342: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available References: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> <875yzp1wz0.fsf@secretsauce.net> <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgx1yya7.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83pmxx4114.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 19:43:21 +0000 In-Reply-To: <83pmxx4114.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 11 May 2021 20:45:43 +0300") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48342 Cc: Dima Kogan , 48342@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Dima Kogan >> Cc: akrl@sdf.org, 48342@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 10:29:20 -0700 >> >> The maybe_swap_for_el() call in Frame #28 checks for the sources, sees >> that the file on disk doesn't exist, and throws the warning as expected: >> >> Code: >> call2 (intern_c_string ("display-warning") >> Full context: >> https://github.com/emacs-mirror/emacs/blob/bb8b8d717f91a85ca41de9e82246e6975e1ed719/src/lread.c#L1713 >> >> Frame #26 is the (display-warning ...) >> >> Frame #25 is (autoload-do-load ... 'display-warning) >> >> Frame #23 is (load "warnings" ...) >> >> The backtrace isn't right about the line number in frame #22, but that >> function is in lread.c. It's trying to compile "warnings.el". > > I guess when we find that a source for some .elc file is not > available, we should add its .el name to > native-comp-deferred-compilation-deny-list? Good idea that's probably the best fix. I'll come-up with a patch for this. Thanks Andrea From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 11 15:51:40 2021 Received: (at 48342) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2021 19:51:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37510 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgYPs-0002BV-Fk for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 15:51:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:49908) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgYPq-0002BG-AB for 48342@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 15:51:38 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35216) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lgYPk-000739-Mp; Tue, 11 May 2021 15:51:32 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3569 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lgYPk-0000Bf-4J; Tue, 11 May 2021 15:51:32 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 22:51:39 +0300 Message-Id: <83eeed3v78.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: (message from Gregory Heytings on Tue, 11 May 2021 19:38:30 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#48342: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available References: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> <875yzp1wz0.fsf@secretsauce.net> <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgx1yya7.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83r1id414v.fsf@gnu.org> <87tun9yx00.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83k0o53x1x.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48342 Cc: dima@secretsauce.net, 48342@debbugs.gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 19:38:30 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: dima@secretsauce.net, 48342@debbugs.gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org > > > My concern is about users who still have Emacs before March 2005. > > I forgot to mention that snapshot.debian.org also contains a copy of all > earlier stable releases of Debian since ~1995. Imagine the plight of a user who needs to discover all these places just to have the sources available. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 11 15:59:21 2021 Received: (at 48342) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2021 19:59:21 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37538 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgYXJ-0002OP-Ja for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 15:59:21 -0400 Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.29]:50255) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgYXH-0002O9-Sh for 48342@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 15:59:20 -0400 Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B33F5C0181; Tue, 11 May 2021 15:59:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 11 May 2021 15:59:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=secretsauce.net; h=references:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=fm3; bh=WMblIFQx1/jLHeT5ZYpJDpfWjY Mx60FW1ov9J55+UP0=; b=P1HYFQ3grAp8eVdW7j+zAa2QrLoNrGSxqNMUPs88BW sqWRZ0oxtLtRbshDKz/nwu0KMnqXpLk52qkSWQjWJ4dvbfPzDgYWpsXPAYPkYTmY 0tj1Ua8cvqVu+6QrscgRvT3VZ14RkJX5UMiRjiC58nUkV3XmWktYaspNeD1J34eZ FU970wadTAxSwbg5E6DnY28luo4pFwdXSbIpvFRpSFXvm+B/8wPSl0BSysqN+EF4 uT1PtO07rldxYNR2qTDA4hM0wfr11u57FVQSL1Pi1w/iFzu5ZcgazrcNHAsqqwUW EWACXt3IjN7nWhO/bjd8OVpQrCRD66ZUJC8nQe6f45hg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=WMblIF Qx1/jLHeT5ZYpJDpfWjYMx60FW1ov9J55+UP0=; b=qq2KGldxQVTZrIsi7eiGnl OR8H6DXEWThhReGy/eGLGF4WBcfq87GpBM2slXZzGfDFmYQhzK8/YO8WT29ZRDa2 JdDCWUzXDvO8SuaUlRDO6EG6U3Ihjve9nD6p1ZtSnYQl6Nv3vXNknWNg+kTD55uV k3np18OqQX3r847DI/c7ximBh1OZEBihI/Pjt21p0Z73oRLAIuyzJnCulWHwf5cX J4rN3X04aaXBXCI+Rax50bBHj1r+rom6symJ/zLfTHYcTPHcy+yyhxIjuCTU5VTp EJFiM6teCxd5koIs1fpkMM6Q8kLM/dOxer5cUWNpv44p0q5xrNwl7zq4XORABj5w == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrvdehtddgudeghecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpehffgfhvffujgffkfggtgesthdtredttdertdenucfhrhhomhepffhimhgr ucfmohhgrghnuceoughimhgrsehsvggtrhgvthhsrghutggvrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpedvueekteevhefhleehueehieeiuefgveeijeekveeiteeijeeitdekvdek ieekleenucffohhmrghinhepuggvsghirghnrdhorhhgnecukfhppedutdejrddvuddtrd dvudefrddvgeefnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhf rhhomhepughimhgrsehsvggtrhgvthhsrghutggvrdhnvght X-ME-Proxy: Received: from localhost (107-210-213-243.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net [107.210.213.243]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, 11 May 2021 15:59:13 -0400 (EDT) References: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> <875yzp1wz0.fsf@secretsauce.net> <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgx1yya7.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83r1id414v.fsf@gnu.org> <87tun9yx00.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83k0o53x1x.fsf@gnu.org> <83eeed3v78.fsf@gnu.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.4.15; emacs 28.0.50 From: Dima Kogan To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48342: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available In-reply-to: <83eeed3v78.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 12:59:27 -0700 Message-ID: <87lf8lyrc0.fsf@secretsauce.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48342 Cc: Gregory Heytings , 48342@debbugs.gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: > Imagine the plight of a user who needs to discover all these places > just to have the sources available. I suppose you have a point, but this concern is much bigger than just emacs. A user of a binary distro (pretty much all of them) may have a binary package installed (anything; not just emacs), and could go looking for sources many decades later. These are available, but will take some work to find if you wait that long. Fixing this is a large battle, and I'm not convinced it's worth fighting. For Debian specifically, the snapshot.debian.org repos Gregory mentioned are primarily useful to people that use the unstable packages. The official, released, packages live in more standard locations, and should be easier to get, even decades later. I say "should" because this is not a common need, and I never went looking myself. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 11 16:00:41 2021 Received: (at 48342) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2021 20:00:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37542 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgYYa-0002Rw-VF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 16:00:41 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:47198) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgYYZ-0002Rn-1a for 48342@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 16:00:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1620763237; bh=rtx6dmomabEo2ekeOil8CBaI1psNDnc1Gp6ighR6dmE=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=ip2nnA/iHCiCae8+pkBTf5MuzROl9W0ECLudxJ09VvayOXGbsRAiMOsHh3s9w7ukT Vyu2wMc31ueHJlOI0gqJvbmywNSWIVKwbY4zXkgEyb4ZiK8RcsMTvj/iOIYOqADzHp S8CdpIYaotz6TPURN15rM8+cpPFdeKXGRHNL86LUbeDBIaqMMyhtAI80Q8CWCsEZ6n KrD3oVl7Ro+YJ+3kdz54suiw+RjNPknmz7RZgWz3r4f2DAyykDJOvtoPy2Hf6869TF Ivi/o3nOXaAaEwfm2fCE4lDFQyeHsL26tdWtoW7L91pMHbNg428TYdKbJsrwcc90AT +oWRn5UrzBXvg== Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 20:00:37 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48342: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available In-Reply-To: <83eeed3v78.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> <875yzp1wz0.fsf@secretsauce.net> <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgx1yya7.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83r1id414v.fsf@gnu.org> <87tun9yx00.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83k0o53x1x.fsf@gnu.org> <83eeed3v78.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48342 Cc: dima@secretsauce.net, 48342@debbugs.gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>> My concern is about users who still have Emacs before March 2005. >> >> I forgot to mention that snapshot.debian.org also contains a copy of >> all earlier stable releases of Debian since ~1995. > > Imagine the plight of a user who needs to discover all these places just > to have the sources available. > As Dima said, the same would be true for the C sources. And, for Debian at least, it's not that difficult: from https://snapshot.debian.org/binary/emacs you can easily find every binary and source file you might need. I cannot imagine a system that would be significantly simpler. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 11 16:04:40 2021 Received: (at 48342) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2021 20:04:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37546 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgYcS-0002Xc-EW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 16:04:40 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:47216) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgYcQ-0002XU-Pa for 48342@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 16:04:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1620763478; bh=/xq6/WED/GKA2Hudz/GAkTrW6jPkJndbof3YBmoleMs=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=Z1QNpyxweuWsDKuLERtsQSNAHwbOqVISJhKxFiAXNvMzTsztX7n6ULKgHvzzgaxWF Yjuc8gqb740t27Nvc1M8ilAPbbB/ZDEL+DsLLMkim7CWyowi6u9AuH3JbCJmO8Wa2i Zn+roZeXH6SrmsxjUbzrLGdZLJITmlLu2h3Gh5SCTeWYvEMzthEGwUCGY2XeK3mjrE 7nEdbz1DHGkxvjMgMwROiNQ7n4E0dtTBfVnrnejF1hYWZqNkLyZBCVEzLxVTg6xbZH yoCzxPoek41dMD5ClJjADn9l+7UDoMLTFNCjvX2NyzFPvkTeEzaFfdmbR9L4IHR/oy cdyaYp9oRRLjg== Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 20:04:37 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48342: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> <875yzp1wz0.fsf@secretsauce.net> <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgx1yya7.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83r1id414v.fsf@gnu.org> <87tun9yx00.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83k0o53x1x.fsf@gnu.org> <83eeed3v78.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48342 Cc: dima@secretsauce.net, 48342@debbugs.gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > > And, for Debian at least, it's not that difficult: from > https://snapshot.debian.org/binary/emacs > I meant: https://snapshot.debian.org/binary/emacs/ From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue May 11 16:23:59 2021 Received: (at 48342) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 May 2021 20:23:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37592 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgYv9-00031t-2e for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 16:23:59 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56628) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lgYv3-00031c-Fi for 48342@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 11 May 2021 16:23:57 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37210) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lgYux-0001pm-48; Tue, 11 May 2021 16:23:47 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1575 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lgYuw-0006QZ-Nt; Tue, 11 May 2021 16:23:47 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 23:23:53 +0300 Message-Id: <837dk53tpi.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Dima Kogan In-Reply-To: <87lf8lyrc0.fsf@secretsauce.net> (message from Dima Kogan on Tue, 11 May 2021 12:59:27 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#48342: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available References: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> <875yzp1wz0.fsf@secretsauce.net> <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgx1yya7.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83r1id414v.fsf@gnu.org> <87tun9yx00.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83k0o53x1x.fsf@gnu.org> <83eeed3v78.fsf@gnu.org> <87lf8lyrc0.fsf@secretsauce.net> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48342 Cc: gregory@heytings.org, 48342@debbugs.gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Dima Kogan > Cc: Gregory Heytings , 48342@debbugs.gnu.org, > akrl@sdf.org > Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 12:59:27 -0700 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > Imagine the plight of a user who needs to discover all these places > > just to have the sources available. > > I suppose you have a point, but this concern is much bigger than just > emacs. That there's a larger problem out there doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to get our act together in our small corner. It isn't a justification, not IMO anyway. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 02 12:44:48 2022 Received: (at 48342) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2022 16:44:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42730 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o7gEi-00049x-Du for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2022 12:44:48 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:40748) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o7gEf-00049g-VY for 48342@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2022 12:44:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=sp+688RfOI38gewSkXLgDGWANPvW/rvHUFJZz03qfbQ=; b=nffgZXV/Yms+dtkkM3+MPTGk2/ y1xnqm+yBULQBFG0JHVIiKGj9yAAZC8wWQscswLccqrPIsheyfW2YuTKagSvGzNzAn2RcQaCmKU04 O/ZeurITq4PXk61S/YPmWnRcjqyOnvMBXKP9vZPbfFr0eYBrVlpr5/8nHBBUcxS7BtoM=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o7gEV-0003qZ-Mk; Sat, 02 Jul 2022 18:44:38 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Andrea Corallo Subject: Re: bug#48342: native-comp emacs gets into an infinite loop at startup if no .el files are available In-Reply-To: (Andrea Corallo's message of "Tue, 11 May 2021 19:43:21 +0000") References: <878s4l1zlt.fsf@secretsauce.net> <875yzp1wz0.fsf@secretsauce.net> <834kf95u1z.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgx1yya7.fsf@secretsauce.net> <83pmxx4114.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: David Bowie's _"Heroes"_: "Moss Garden" Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2022 18:44:35 +0200 Message-ID: <87letbxy4s.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Andrea Corallo writes: >> I guess when we find that a source for some .elc file is not >> available, we should add its .el name to >> native-comp-deferred-compilation-deny-list? > > Good idea that's probably the best fix. I [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48342 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Dima Kogan , 48342@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Andrea Corallo writes: >> I guess when we find that a source for some .elc file is not >> available, we should add its .el name to >> native-comp-deferred-compilation-deny-list? > > Good idea that's probably the best fix. I'll come-up with a patch for > this. I did an even simpler fix in Emacs 29 -- if we're in an Emacs without .el files, I make maybe_swap_for_eln disable the warning, and that seems to fix the issue. (I check for "simple.el" -- if we don't have that, then we probably don't have any .el files.) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 02 12:44:54 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2022 16:44:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42733 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o7gEo-0004AF-LC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2022 12:44:54 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:40766) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1o7gEm-00049v-II for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2022 12:44:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=NvPrs1sx+zHx9skJZUayN7jJIlnOVqJJZ3jwBwVGo7o=; b=k+TLNurE6uwwInRzGYBcKvi96o tX0ZVvihHmoN55wDRE51zWkJ1A48A6j3SUr70m7ftoXHIVeSZXRYscJ2jObejY6aE2wXNMa3M/t6u Z4vRMjiYfmBTYHHHfiQyyxzFDiry7wLVyiZ+xCZYpEV7RtDTomkqFh4fswUxxF994Cm8=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o7gEe-0003qi-Jx for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2022 18:44:46 +0200 Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2022 18:44:42 +0200 Message-Id: <87k08vxy4l.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #48342 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: close 48342 29.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) close 48342 29.1 quit From unknown Fri Jun 20 07:24:22 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 11:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator