From unknown Thu Aug 14 21:50:17 2025 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Subject: bug#4827: 23.1.50; frame-visible-p documentation Reply-To: stepnem@gmail.com, 4827@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-From: stepnem@gmail.com Resent-To: bug-submit-list@lists.donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs 2Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:45:04 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-Emacs-PR-Message: report 4827 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B.12568236487828 (code B ref -1); Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:45:04 +0000 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 29 Oct 2009 13:40:48 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=4.0 tests=MURPHY_DRUGS_REL6 autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n9TDekhX007824 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 06:40:47 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N3VF6-0006Ac-7B for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:40:45 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N3VEz-00068r-KG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:40:42 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=37359 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N3VEy-00068O-AY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:40:37 -0400 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]:34959) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1N3VEx-0004nY-Sz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:40:36 -0400 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so2353097bwz.26 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 06:40:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=0iL5X0T06No03JkVlGgc0YqkDw2O5+EGuutBRq9aYg0=; b=lC/JKL2OY26QSP0FBQIbNymRVTvJWMNQ56hPGM6Rl6GMTSp/ILcNB0Ws2Uyltg4KZj 7WAq1RK+RdQRmNEChIVZ7xbmtsDg8gC7by23+ZMdCBKlrwiErcMMc5c+OVYgqcOv+qs/ MOhCgc+CGt5tyDCI4JW8XmonF6I3mqWhhYZ7k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=BSUl6O0R5EBs3iVcybW06/Hr/sJkzhEfA+V1vlP+FdpLbn5VVcwH58f6hfqb0VAyJ3 n7Ek2Fxwj0KikquaC7gTeawYnvmVxyNaOjAia5kkBC9Uq6CMNlkvpJLVudr4OYT4vJWT JLrKWjZ/fhtIGT1Xr2+ytDVJ5gwVwUsIaT/nM= Received: by 10.204.10.136 with SMTP id p8mr50645bkp.56.1256823634394; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 06:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([88.103.132.186]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 28sm4091430fkx.1.2009.10.29.06.40.33 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 29 Oct 2009 06:40:34 -0700 (PDT) From: stepnem@gmail.com To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:41:00 +0100 Message-ID: <87639y2u8j.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) [In GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.12.9) of 2009-10-28] C-h f frame-visible-p: """ (frame-visible-p FRAME) Return t if FRAME is now "visible" (actually in use for display). A frame that is not "visible" is not updated and, if it works through a window system, it may not show at all. Return the symbol `icon' if frame is visible only as an icon. On a text-only terminal, all frames are considered visible, whether they are currently being displayed or not, and this function returns t for all frames. """ Could please someone explain a few points mentioned below, and if possible, fix the docstring to make them clear without further explanation? 1. What does "if it works through a window system" mean? I assume "it" means "frame", but is "a frame works through a window system" a good formulation? 2. Why say "if it works through a window system, it may not show at all"? If I understand correctly, on a text-only terminal, i.e. without "a window system", there can be only one frame really visible at a time (i.e. not "visible", but visible); and according to the second paragraph, all frames are "visible", i.e. considered visible -- so why "if ..., it may not show at all"? 3. What does being visible only as an icon mean? The second paragraph is quite clear, although I really would like to know why is there no distinction regarding "visibility" in a terminal or what is the motivation for such behaviour (i.e. returning t for all frames). As a suggestion, wouldn't it at least make more sense to start the first paragraph with 'Under a window system...' and get rid of that unclear conditional mentioned under 1. and 2. above? Regards =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n N=C4=9Bmec=20 From rgm@gnu.org Fri Oct 30 19:25:55 2009 Received: (at control) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 31 Oct 2009 02:25:55 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,ONEWORD,VALID_BTS_CONTROL autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n9V2PrDD031609 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:25:54 -0700 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1N43f7-0001J6-9e; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:25:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <19179.41008.952237.216417@fencepost.gnu.org> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:25:52 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: control Subject: control severity 4724 wishlist severity 4743 wishlist tags 4743 wontfix reassign 4759 emacs,ns reassign 4765 emacs,ns reassign 4774 emacs,ns severity 4680 minor severity 4833 wishlist severity 4829 minor reassign 4831 emacs,ns severity 4827 minor close 4821 close 4822 close 4778 severity 4804 wishlist reassign 4836 emacs,w32 From unknown Thu Aug 14 21:50:17 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.427 (Entity 5.427) X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (Emacs bug Tracking System) To: stepnem@gmail.com Subject: bug#4827 closed by Chong Yidong (Re: 23.1.50; frame-visible-p documentation) Message-ID: References: <87vdhvfpsq.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87639y2u8j.fsf@gmail.com> X-Emacs-PR-Message: they-closed 4827 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 4827@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:25:06 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1257009906-5775-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1257009906-5775-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" This is an automatic notification regarding your bug report which was filed against the emacs package: #4827: 23.1.50; frame-visible-p documentation It has been closed by Chong Yidong . Their explanation is attached below along with your original report. If this explanation is unsatisfactory and you have not received a better one in a separate message then please contact Chong Yidong by replying to this email. --=20 4827: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D4827 Emacs Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1257009906-5775-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 4827-done) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 31 Oct 2009 17:15:25 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,DATING autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from pantheon-po30.its.yale.edu (pantheon-po30.its.yale.edu [130.132.50.4]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n9VHFNcZ005065 for <4827-done@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:15:24 -0700 Received: from furry (173-14-147-246-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.14.147.246]) (authenticated bits=0) by pantheon-po30.its.yale.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n9VHFHGC026622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:15:18 -0400 Received: by furry (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BF29EC070; Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:15:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Chong Yidong To: stepnem@gmail.com Cc: 4827-done@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: 23.1.50; frame-visible-p documentation Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:15:17 -0400 Message-ID: <87vdhvfpsq.fsf@stupidchicken.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-YaleITSMailFilter: Version 1.2c (attachment(s) not renamed) I've updated the docstring of frame-visible-p to make it clearer. > 3. What does being visible only as an icon mean? Minimized. This is Emacs terminology dating from long along. ------------=_1257009906-5775-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 29 Oct 2009 13:40:48 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2008-06-10) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=4.0 tests=MURPHY_DRUGS_REL6 autolearn=no version=3.2.5-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id n9TDekhX007824 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 06:40:47 -0700 Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N3VF6-0006Ac-7B for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:40:45 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N3VEz-00068r-KG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:40:42 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=37359 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N3VEy-00068O-AY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:40:37 -0400 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]:34959) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1N3VEx-0004nY-Sz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:40:36 -0400 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so2353097bwz.26 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 06:40:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=0iL5X0T06No03JkVlGgc0YqkDw2O5+EGuutBRq9aYg0=; b=lC/JKL2OY26QSP0FBQIbNymRVTvJWMNQ56hPGM6Rl6GMTSp/ILcNB0Ws2Uyltg4KZj 7WAq1RK+RdQRmNEChIVZ7xbmtsDg8gC7by23+ZMdCBKlrwiErcMMc5c+OVYgqcOv+qs/ MOhCgc+CGt5tyDCI4JW8XmonF6I3mqWhhYZ7k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=BSUl6O0R5EBs3iVcybW06/Hr/sJkzhEfA+V1vlP+FdpLbn5VVcwH58f6hfqb0VAyJ3 n7Ek2Fxwj0KikquaC7gTeawYnvmVxyNaOjAia5kkBC9Uq6CMNlkvpJLVudr4OYT4vJWT JLrKWjZ/fhtIGT1Xr2+ytDVJ5gwVwUsIaT/nM= Received: by 10.204.10.136 with SMTP id p8mr50645bkp.56.1256823634394; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 06:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([88.103.132.186]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 28sm4091430fkx.1.2009.10.29.06.40.33 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 29 Oct 2009 06:40:34 -0700 (PDT) From: stepnem@gmail.com To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 23.1.50; frame-visible-p documentation Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:41:00 +0100 Message-ID: <87639y2u8j.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) [In GNU Emacs 23.1.50.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.12.9) of 2009-10-28] C-h f frame-visible-p: """ (frame-visible-p FRAME) Return t if FRAME is now "visible" (actually in use for display). A frame that is not "visible" is not updated and, if it works through a window system, it may not show at all. Return the symbol `icon' if frame is visible only as an icon. On a text-only terminal, all frames are considered visible, whether they are currently being displayed or not, and this function returns t for all frames. """ Could please someone explain a few points mentioned below, and if possible, fix the docstring to make them clear without further explanation? 1. What does "if it works through a window system" mean? I assume "it" means "frame", but is "a frame works through a window system" a good formulation? 2. Why say "if it works through a window system, it may not show at all"? If I understand correctly, on a text-only terminal, i.e. without "a window system", there can be only one frame really visible at a time (i.e. not "visible", but visible); and according to the second paragraph, all frames are "visible", i.e. considered visible -- so why "if ..., it may not show at all"? 3. What does being visible only as an icon mean? The second paragraph is quite clear, although I really would like to know why is there no distinction regarding "visibility" in a terminal or what is the motivation for such behaviour (i.e. returning t for all frames). As a suggestion, wouldn't it at least make more sense to start the first paragraph with 'Under a window system...' and get rid of that unclear conditional mentioned under 1. and 2. above? Regards =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n N=C4=9Bmec=20 ------------=_1257009906-5775-1--