From unknown Sat Sep 06 02:33:01 2025 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.509 (Entity 5.509) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: bug#48134 <48134@debbugs.gnu.org> To: bug#48134 <48134@debbugs.gnu.org> Subject: Status: When sitting on top of a M-x item in the manual Reply-To: bug#48134 <48134@debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2025 09:33:01 +0000 retitle 48134 When sitting on top of a M-x item in the manual reassign 48134 emacs submitter 48134 =E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC Dan Jacobson severity 48134 wishlist tag 48134 notabug thanks From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 01 01:53:16 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2021 05:53:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60164 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lciZ1-0000OR-VQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 01:53:16 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:58556) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lciZ0-0000OH-1c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Fri, 30 Apr 2021 22:53:06 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a83 From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: When sitting on top of a M-x item in the manual Date: Sat, 01 May 2021 13:41:28 +0800 Message-ID: <87fsz73t9z.8.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=23.83.212.47; envelope-from=jidanni@jidanni.org; helo=cyan.elm.relay.mailchannels.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) Do (info "(emacs) Colors") Now put the cursor on top of =E2=80=98M-x list-colors-display=E2=80=99 and hope emacs realizes it... but it doesn't so we end up typing x ;; execute-extended-command l ;; self-insert-command ;; minibuffer-complete i ;; self-insert-command ;; minibuffer-complete s ;; self-insert-command ;; minibuffer-complete t ;; self-insert-command ;; minibuffer-complete c ;; self-insert-command ;; minibuffer-complete o ;; self-insert-command ;; minibuffer-complete l ;; self-insert-command ;; minibuffer-complete ah, finally we can hit RET. One would think some default would show up based on what our cursor was on or something. Or maybe the item should be hyperlinked. emacs-version "27.1" From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 01 04:59:25 2021 Received: (at 48134) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2021 08:59:25 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60264 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lclTA-0006ar-V7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 04:59:25 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f51.google.com ([209.85.128.51]:36565) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lclT8-0006Z6-RQ for 48134@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 04:59:23 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f51.google.com with SMTP id f15-20020a05600c4e8fb029013f5599b8a9so2897459wmq.1 for <48134@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 01 May 2021 01:59:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/IsxBtctHIDhd6YKW96R7xf7LqpVF44jSmoVL6thh5U=; b=iX6iPy6KKA8u7tIAwjMHkdvqcsyub5F3A+RprDb3gUIE4lymD6UPOeKz1PFk9ImEmt fROdttsG6dWc7iqxBD3wQ1XN2rsgLUK5Cpfg/+NFfmVcjdODJLn/lSKK0sri7WuQPZ9G 9pkiqnmNZzOsQJ8utkDu4iF60GRxfroyfVIVEsS3h45Yf+ynJNrtjTylZ0VkHLoBT7lN nAkxfKrmc0ByBTaldbwMGn8GdjOA3RKIEBlkBrrSu6ItXHahSnSwUvDx5bpUm3wF26zx v114PzMYMzMah4tbURIYdPgwJ2SmlQj5s3Ec6s9sJAfj+IsNJGfpjqMCKyb3suAjL6yY 3gtQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/IsxBtctHIDhd6YKW96R7xf7LqpVF44jSmoVL6thh5U=; b=SdU8PD18/LrBnhLlySC/uqLWG8c+iImRhqSQwAa3d/w26DlYOtGNStMf6QMWcGe+eZ 9IJTndwXMKAbCYvfRoZ1SOm8BMSqTfc22LDYndEhKBC3XVXww8sqYMVgt83uKeWD5yTs t9OeHuYo4p6aeFn4eQ2TaiMT5zqzIEoWWS7tW9P7JTQcFcUnk3z+JRLpR+LgArcZVvCm ul5+bF/mqXzvFPNeeySUcMzOc3kd+rzc6MhYyOCl2/rcQsLtlDIy7MhukDhC5369I2vw m5iS5VP1jNM/7y4iD9zbhzdUlE2dspCemVw9W9TLn7izZE52eu24mMpaR6y4NLMEJgSF gybg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530yNxWEAsd0qq8+xXodOfKm6LSSWYFt1wzfA6RGj7kwIUFIPU1c Mk1yNLnUGX3aYDLOLP4LJQHDVRZR+5Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz9Pyy1ZnURi5eWw4Q2RNZDKvztICDEhBjmMoI/ji8bDtD9dTekcCLUwVRymziX3dFvrhSrQg== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:9a8a:: with SMTP id c132mr6701914wme.48.1619859556687; Sat, 01 May 2021 01:59:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amdahl30 ([2a01:e0a:20e:d340:2ef0:5dff:fed2:7b49]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v15sm8363202wmj.39.2021.05.01.01.59.16 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 01 May 2021 01:59:16 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin_Le_Gouguec?= To: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson Subject: Re: bug#48134: When sitting on top of a M-x item in the manual References: <87fsz73t9z.8.fsf@jidanni.org> Date: Sat, 01 May 2021 10:59:15 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87fsz73t9z.8.fsf@jidanni.org> (=?utf-8?B?IuepjeS4ueWwvA==?= Dan Jacobson"'s message of "Sat, 01 May 2021 13:41:28 +0800") Message-ID: <87sg36rfrw.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48134 Cc: 48134@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) =E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC Dan Jacobson writes: > Do (info "(emacs) Colors") > Now put the cursor on top of > =E2=80=98M-x list-colors-display=E2=80=99 > and hope emacs realizes it... but it doesn't so we end up typing > > ah, finally we can hit RET. > > One would think some default would show up based on what our cursor was > on or something. Note that M-n does the sort of "mind-reading" you're looking for, IIUC: - put cursor on top of =E2=80=98M-x list-colors-display=E2=80=99 - M-x M-n Would that be an acceptable answer for you? If not, maybe there are some completion UIs that are more eager and will default to whatever M-n suggests; none comes to mind at the moment, but I'd be surprised if none existed. All in all though, maybe "buttonizing" =E2=80=98M-x foo=E2=80=99 commands i= n Info manuals would make sense: one could then trigger them with RET or mouse-1, and reach them with TAB; no idea how hard it would be to implement. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 01 08:15:55 2021 Received: (at 48134) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2021 12:15:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36329 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcoXL-0004tV-5M for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 08:15:55 -0400 Received: from dormouse.elm.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.212.50]:65493) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcoXI-0004tL-Lz for 48134@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 08:15:53 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 795375428B9; Sat, 1 May 2021 12:15:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a35.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-16-49.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.16.49]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 0D847541906; Sat, 1 May 2021 12:15:51 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a35.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 100.96.16.49 (trex/6.2.1); Sat, 01 May 2021 12:15:51 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Rock-Towering: 63f695f511340730_1619871351277_3703647986 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1619871351277:890142806 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1619871351277 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a35.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a35.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 997BB7ED2C; Sat, 1 May 2021 05:15:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s=jidanni.org; bh=TTGLLekWDAr0KeS0EU3mYhFIXnE=; b=aCUmVjHPQC7BD axmfYcSND4HZ/l/1omeyYF6HII6YAK4dfBs6FwCf8yqorpEuVZG46WDYKdcLOqei qnfjGm16ZoaRnKhF4E709M9JUw5KCEZGmz/YYSE8l2oPMUPITS/ozffKbYCPl3A1 rW4DVV0P2QTYsk8KKK/ztnzuqYzssE= Received: from jidanni.org (111-246-99-176.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [111.246.99.176]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a35.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DF97B86718; Sat, 1 May 2021 05:15:49 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a35 From: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson To: =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin?= Le Gouguec Subject: Re: bug#48134: When sitting on top of a M-x item in the manual References: <87fsz73t9z.8.fsf@jidanni.org> <87sg36rfrw.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 01 May 2021 20:15:45 +0800 Message-ID: <87pmyaodji.5.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48134 Cc: 48134@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) OK, M-x M-n indeed works. However, we are used to "Default: list-colors-display" type hints, that in no way hinder power users or others who don't want the default, and also provides the bonus of not needing to be super savvy to know about arrows or M-n to get the hidden choice out into the open. Also indeed lots of stuff in the info manuals is already brightly hyperlinked, so it is odd that there are a few things that were forgotten about. 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4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lcqiu-0007DH-Jq; Sat, 01 May 2021 10:36:03 -0400 Date: Sat, 01 May 2021 17:35:50 +0300 Message-Id: <83y2cy8qt5.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Drew Adams In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Sat, 1 May 2021 14:01:26 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#48134: [External] : bug#48134: When sitting on top of a M-x item in the manual References: <87fsz73t9z.8.fsf@jidanni.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48134 Cc: 48134@debbugs.gnu.org, jidanni@jidanni.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Drew Adams > Date: Sat, 1 May 2021 14:01:26 +0000 > > > Do (info "(emacs) Colors") > > Now put the cursor on top of ‘M-x list-colors-display’ > > and hope emacs realizes it... but it doesn't so we end up typing... > > Icicles provides a trivial remedy for this, which > isn't really connected with completion or anything > particular to do with Icicles (except that it helps): How is this and the following text relevant to the bug report? If you want to suggest that a similar implementation be included in Emacs, it is enough to mention the existence of the solution. You could also describe your proposed implementation, while you are at that, as that gives ideas for our internal implementation. But quoting a long documentation string adds nothing to the bug report, and looks like a shameless plug to me. It also makes the bug report harder to read. Please don't clutter the bug tracker with such useless information. 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Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38257 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcwJ6-0005Jb-G5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 16:33:44 -0400 Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.195]:40855) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcwJ5-0005JU-56 for 48134@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 16:33:43 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 91.129.102.166 Received: from mail.gandi.net (m91-129-102-166.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.102.166]) (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6215D60005; Sat, 1 May 2021 20:33:34 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#48134: [External] : bug#48134: When sitting on top of a M-x item in the manual Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87fsz73t9z.8.fsf@jidanni.org> Date: Sat, 01 May 2021 23:09:42 +0300 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 1 May 2021 14:01:26 +0000") Message-ID: <87lf8yqk9t.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48134 Cc: "48134@debbugs.gnu.org" <48134@debbugs.gnu.org>, =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > With cursor on `list-colors-display', `M-x', then `M-.' > pulls that text into the minibuffer: `M-x M-. RET'. `M-x M-. RET' can't be used because `M-.' is bound to the command `xref-find-definitions' useful in the minibuffer too. Fortunately, `M-x M-n RET' already pulls that text into the minibuffer. 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charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d4b5200f-f91a-4d17-eb92-08d90cf823b3 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 May 2021 23:23:33.8598 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 6uBbaArr89N3f0mileUXGF43lqg3hfg0WMYREhX8JAWATmzTSEm4hF0bVN6NOFn0PBLMYiq91ukwRffsvbwj2A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA2PR10MB4585 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9971 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=631 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2104060000 definitions=main-2105010170 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 72eUXyGWTevObbzDpD_1O20CFG3fXdcK X-Proofpoint-GUID: 72eUXyGWTevObbzDpD_1O20CFG3fXdcK X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9971 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 impostorscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxlogscore=930 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2104060000 definitions=main-2105010170 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48134 Cc: "48134@debbugs.gnu.org" <48134@debbugs.gnu.org>, =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCQFFDMEZ0GyhCIERhbiBKYWNvYnNvbg==?= X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > > With cursor on `list-colors-display', `M-x', then `M-.' > > pulls that text into the minibuffer: `M-x M-. RET'. >=20 > `M-x M-. RET' can't be used because `M-.' is bound to the command > `xref-find-definitions' useful in the minibuffer too. Yes, well choose another key then. It's unfortunate that Emacs has chosen to waste a repeatable key on a nonrepeatable command such as `xref-find-definitions', but so it goes. > Fortunately, `M-x M-n RET' already pulls that text > into the minibuffer. What text? Just a command name at point? What I tried to suggest was to have a more general feature to insert text at point into the minibuffer. There are lots of possibilities for that. (Some of them are available with `M-.' in Icicles. You can see them described in the doc string Eli so objected to being shown.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 02 03:14:22 2021 Received: (at 48134) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 May 2021 07:14:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41045 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ld6J3-000566-PM for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 03:14:21 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:54846) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ld6J2-00055y-Fu for 48134@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 03:14:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=mwA7EoBtuWP0u4QTX/Ln8C2a+koqIFwVjqH0eglj0/4=; b=r3FsttPWJvc7JQ2g1gMQgX0UKl fTa3XjXP7ZlNEe+a0HqAXjmxZi14wX62iaBwD3xs/29MmROHgxZHScIkBOeHqKMJ2DbxBObZqnlpM DxKJ5KwfxDFjew9X5eY2Bq5roEURi+VknucSv7qjqe+UH6NxsQiOwYFPdFmeCfQugIYA=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ld6Iu-0003hH-DE; Sun, 02 May 2021 09:14:14 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson Subject: Re: bug#48134: When sitting on top of a M-x item in the manual References: <87fsz73t9z.8.fsf@jidanni.org> <87sg36rfrw.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmyaodji.5.fsf@jidanni.org> X-Now-Playing: Games's _That We Can Play_: "Shadows In Bloom" Date: Sun, 02 May 2021 09:14:11 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87pmyaodji.5.fsf@jidanni.org> (=?utf-8?B?IuepjeS4ueWwvA==?= Dan Jacobson"'s message of "Sat, 01 May 2021 20:15:45 +0800") Message-ID: <87czu9li9o.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson writes: > OK, M-x M-n indeed works. > However, we are used to "Default: list-colors-display" type hints, > that in no way hinder power users or others who don't want the default, > and also provides the bonus [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48134 Cc: 48134@debbugs.gnu.org, =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin?= Le Gouguec X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) =E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC Dan Jacobson writes: > OK, M-x M-n indeed works. > However, we are used to "Default: list-colors-display" type hints, > that in no way hinder power users or others who don't want the default, > and also provides the bonus of not needing to be super savvy to know > about arrows or M-n to get the hidden choice out into the open. This is how Emacs works all over the place -- `M-n' should get you the suggestion. Making all prompts tell you about this standard feature would be less than optimal, so I don't think there's anything to fix here, and I'm closing this bug report. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 02 03:14:26 2021 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 May 2021 07:14:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41048 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ld6J8-00056K-1E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 03:14:26 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:54862) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ld6J6-00055z-GW for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 03:14:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=W9eRQ2ZJE5QtPChUqPNuGpzRWeQJs2jS2ykTeMOLkwU=; b=BPZ/jIoum3EQXJOByk+E2GynTH yzIh20K0fcjKi7+noNGtQerHgWMuTsK/942/W4mh081k6EiIPywzYJFSjw4WBlkKe3ZhCKVVv6EKt 0Q1DFhhTVDt5K+RGprGrAA06RGNiDO38SMizudzYV/8gpJWcwwv7xIVoopdd/5ezD7zI=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ld6Iz-0003hQ-5Y for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 09:14:19 +0200 Date: Sun, 02 May 2021 09:14:16 +0200 Message-Id: <87bl9tli9j.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #48134 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: tags 48134 notabug close 48134 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) tags 48134 notabug close 48134 quit From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 02 10:09:29 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 May 2021 14:09:29 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43008 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ldCmn-0003UX-DL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 10:09:29 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:60922) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ldCml-0003UR-5V for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 10:09:27 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46766) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ldCmh-0001UE-Oy for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 10:09:26 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:49092) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ldCme-00007t-M4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 10:09:21 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ldCmc-0003UT-He for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 16:09:18 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org From: Howard Melman Subject: Re: bug#48134: When sitting on top of a M-x item in the manual Date: Sun, 02 May 2021 10:09:12 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87fsz73t9z.8.fsf@jidanni.org> <87sg36rfrw.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmyaodji.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <87czu9li9o.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:aulst8xmt6dkBht7cB85bwyFQGU= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 5 X-Spam_score: 0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.248, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > This is how Emacs works all over the place -- `M-n' should get you the > suggestion. Making all prompts tell you about this standard feature > would be less than optimal, so I don't think there's anything to fix > here, and I'm closing this bug report. I suggest making this standard feature a little more explicit in the emacs manual. I think it's only mentioned in the Minibuffer History node (in Emacs 27) which is fine, but the only index entry for this is "future history for file names". I think it would be better to also (or just) index "future history" in the previous paragraph. Also a sentence explaining how this standard feature commonly behaves would help. Something like: This is often a value at point relevant to the command such as a symbol, word, file name or color. (with perhaps a mention of thing-at-point) -- Howard From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 02 12:09:41 2021 Received: (at 48134) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 May 2021 16:09:42 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43499 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ldEf7-0004Sn-MO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 12:09:41 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f49.google.com ([209.85.128.49]:36602) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ldEf6-0004Sh-E9 for 48134@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 12:09:40 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f49.google.com with SMTP id l24-20020a7bc4580000b029014ac3b80020so317397wmi.1 for <48134@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 02 May 2021 09:09:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=uiHOZHefzVlJotwJ21XZ+AU/F/EkiGtCibppnIvkyfU=; b=mA2S61ID1LOEHI3MERArVdxkJy6NK/bbNNsxn+eS+qx013KTZ2Ow0O8G4ogTeKitxZ L7lBpCD2upy9vFMuWX3Hgp7A4SRF1XlbausvD4g9aN6r68231b6/5ixI6LJcSaKKdnY1 I6dX1zMEXwOZ9ytwo8PklSm2KhENFGHcEujfDPSXNhATQQgfApMGtkZa4zq16brT2iyM UnijKbPD/EZo4GbFgTy8A2368Q5VGOZUjrSKrnZYABNcUAB3HjCMKV+mHK10q7WLrgyy jpaDakYce8Nn86RwgsgoqL5iKTZY2k1LwRKuJm8q84urlrgPguk81qVjDcyvAuhohB7M uEVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=uiHOZHefzVlJotwJ21XZ+AU/F/EkiGtCibppnIvkyfU=; b=LNZGa7ZDUDjJIabhxFLEUCXwwebzFlO61XBYHWMa65LETPdHk4kxJ6fsQmCDQL0jbF jJnQVDyk5zfHyqpGnXatIoHY+JNyQ3TZ/fcdh2uCQjh5Wvcyjg8BYAbuyur7WKyYwYbv xdue1DXM5pvH/0YrH8xCKx2bomvmpGufvIl/kxT9hbnUXhVble0n5hed0WCtE4K71YQK akdIv5gzFQEWKKTJpRPMkWF4XQpz9vVKtmXXvlo3l9FSvLrMQcXXTbNAZqECsAyKEGRm ohRFNi0oyzhIxKQYeg1F7NJhKLW7BWqgEtXaC/4gtGMu+GFMX3qTzf5vlGANvzuVsh1Q 130g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530bx7P/xRf6y6j9+TAvD8RCV3d/1SBHbA6hgtQMzdNTnS4bCAQ8 jhzkF47kh2Cb3QkK7xJFVi8EXo1JKOg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwfGbpgkkDEjAOCAzIsa+7AMVHs9N3p4ATxjrHFahtgpgbPAcmDLFzS6rQ1Fm3o4t/lkwvZZQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4ec9:: with SMTP id g9mr27110410wmq.145.1619971774357; Sun, 02 May 2021 09:09:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from amdahl30 ([2a01:e0a:20e:d340:2ef0:5dff:fed2:7b49]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n22sm6333056wmo.12.2021.05.02.09.09.33 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 02 May 2021 09:09:33 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin_Le_Gouguec?= To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: Re: bug#48134: When sitting on top of a M-x item in the manual References: <87fsz73t9z.8.fsf@jidanni.org> <87sg36rfrw.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmyaodji.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <87czu9li9o.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sun, 02 May 2021 18:09:32 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87czu9li9o.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 02 May 2021 09:14:11 +0200") Message-ID: <875z01jewz.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48134 Cc: 48134@debbugs.gnu.org, =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > This is how Emacs works all over the place -- `M-n' should get you the > suggestion. Making all prompts tell you about this standard feature > would be less than optimal, so I don't think there's anything to fix > here, and I'm closing this bug report. FWIW, I think I only ever found out about M-n because someone sang its praise somewhere on the Net. I see that (info "(emacs) Minibuffer History") mentions its DWIM behaviour and gives examples for filename prompts, but given how ubiquitous and useful M-n is, I wonder if we couldn't do more to advertise it. Emacs does tell users about (some) standard features, e.g. after C-h f, we get a message advertising "q" and "C-M-v". I get that longtime users mostly see that as noise, but I think messaging a concise hint along the lines of "N suggestions; select them with M-n" would make this "future history" easier to discover. I realize that this would probably not be trivial to implement though. Looking up "future history in minibuffer input" in the Elisp manual brought me to (info "(elisp) Text from Minibuffer"), which lured me into thinking that this hypothetical hint could simply be added in read-from-minibuffer, by looking at the DEFAULT argument; a stroll through read-extended-command taught me that some functions compute their "future history" dynamically with minibuffer-default-add-function, which I guess complicates things a bit? (=E2=80=A6 Alternatively, read-extended-command could just default to the command at point, like describe-{function,variable,symbol} do) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 02 18:03:33 2021 Received: (at 48134) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 May 2021 22:03:33 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45032 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ldKBZ-0003ZB-Ln for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 18:03:33 -0400 Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.232]:59065) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ldKBX-0003Ys-Qu for 48134@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 18:03:32 -0400 Received: from mail.gandi.net (m91-129-102-166.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.102.166]) (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7C05E200006; Sun, 2 May 2021 22:03:23 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov To: Drew Adams Subject: Re: bug#48134: [External] : bug#48134: When sitting on top of a M-x item in the manual Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87fsz73t9z.8.fsf@jidanni.org> <87lf8yqk9t.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Date: Sun, 02 May 2021 23:52:11 +0300 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 1 May 2021 23:23:33 +0000") Message-ID: <87im403ll0.fsf@mail.linkov.net> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48134 Cc: "48134@debbugs.gnu.org" <48134@debbugs.gnu.org>, =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> > With cursor on `list-colors-display', `M-x', then `M-.' >> > pulls that text into the minibuffer: `M-x M-. RET'. >> >> `M-x M-. RET' can't be used because `M-.' is bound to the command >> `xref-find-definitions' useful in the minibuffer too. > > Yes, well choose another key then. Which one? > It's unfortunate that Emacs has chosen to waste a > repeatable key on a nonrepeatable command such as > `xref-find-definitions', but so it goes. A command to pull text to the minibuffer is not repeatable either. > What I tried to suggest was to have a more general > feature to insert text at point into the minibuffer. > There are lots of possibilities for that. I agree such a command would be useful. But to what key to bind it? 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Mon, 3 May 2021 00:35:56 +0000 Received: from SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2109:9725:fd4a:6494]) by SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2109:9725:fd4a:6494%6]) with mapi id 15.20.4087.043; Mon, 3 May 2021 00:35:56 +0000 From: Drew Adams To: Juri Linkov Subject: RE: bug#48134: [External] : bug#48134: When sitting on top of a M-x item in the manual Thread-Topic: bug#48134: [External] : bug#48134: When sitting on top of a M-x item in the manual Thread-Index: AQHXP58deQeu/EUu9E62s95nKqC5DqrQ3Fgg Date: Mon, 3 May 2021 00:35:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87fsz73t9z.8.fsf@jidanni.org> <87lf8yqk9t.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87im403ll0.fsf@mail.linkov.net> In-Reply-To: <87im403ll0.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: linkov.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;linkov.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=oracle.com; x-originating-ip: [73.170.83.28] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: e9626866-9b34-4817-7fa1-08d90dcb6a32 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SN6PR10MB2798: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA2PR10MB4474.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e9626866-9b34-4817-7fa1-08d90dcb6a32 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 May 2021 00:35:56.0454 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: rCr3rQbJYUQMrs2DkQdsEHvw71dRwkYyX0z0goaDyeoDEH8RqHmtYF+v+IWiQBRcdF4jO1jcYW5kDvFol7uzeA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN6PR10MB2798 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9972 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=736 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2104060000 definitions=main-2105030001 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: fXiwzKF3oeaiUAJejMPE_VS_8_2xLIpa X-Proofpoint-GUID: fXiwzKF3oeaiUAJejMPE_VS_8_2xLIpa X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=9972 signatures=668683 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 impostorscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxlogscore=999 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2104060000 definitions=main-2105030001 X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48134 Cc: "48134@debbugs.gnu.org" <48134@debbugs.gnu.org>, =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCQFFDMEZ0GyhCIERhbiBKYWNvYnNvbg==?= X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) > > It's unfortunate that Emacs has chosen to waste a > > repeatable key on a nonrepeatable command such as > > `xref-find-definitions', but so it goes. >=20 > A command to pull text to the minibuffer is not > repeatable either. I disagree. And I think this points to an under-appreciation of the importance of repeatable keys and of not wasting them on nonrepeatable commands (or wasting them on non-prefix commands). The command I pointed to IS repeatable. The doc I showed for it describes the behavior. You can hold down `M-.' to repeatedly select things of a given kind and insert them into the minibuffer, appending them one after the other. The user option defines which kind of thing to repeatedly grab. By default, successive words are grabbed. You can use any function that moves point. The default is `forward-word'. Change that to `forward-char' and hold down `M-.' to stream chars to the minibuffer after point there. Change it to `backward-char' and you can stream chars to the minibuffer before point (i.e., prepend instead of append). Change it to `forward-sentence to stream sentences after point. And so on. OR you can - alternatively - hold down `M-.' to cycle through different kinds of thing at point: Each `M-.' replaces the thing inserted the immediately previous `M-.'. Cycle till you get the kind of thing you want. Those are thus two kinds of repeated action. A user option defines which one is used by default. And plain `C-u' as prefix arg flips the option, to use the opposite behavior temporarily. So you can, e.g., in general prefer to have `M-.' cycle among thing types but use `C-u M-x' as a one-off, to instead pull in successive things of the same type from the buffer. This is all explained in the doc string that Eli didn't want to be bothered with. And it's explained even better/more at the doc page I cited. https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Icicles_-_Inserting_Text_from_Cursor Heading "Repeat `M-.' To Grab More or Different" there presents the two alternative behaviors. [I haven't bothered to do this, but if it were thought useful then it could be introduced: Instead of the option defining at most one repeat-me function (e.g. `forward-word'), it could let you define more than one, and the command (`M-.') could provide some way to switch among them.] > > What I tried to suggest was to have a more general > > feature to insert text at point into the minibuffer. > > There are lots of possibilities for that. >=20 > I agree such a command would be useful. > But to what key to bind it? I suggested `M-.'. That's still my suggestion, as I don't think it was a good idea to give that key to xref for a nonrepeatable command. But I don't really expect anyone to make such a change. Not any more than I expect anyone to add any feature such as what I've suggested. `M-n' is something else. FWIW, I think it's a mistake to speak "future history" regarding it. "History" for minibuffer input refers to text you've actually accepted as input previously. We correctly referred to what `M-n' offers as "default values", and the Elisp doc still does that. Why someone (you perhaps?) introduced "future history" I don't know. But IMHO it's more likely to confuse than aid. Seems "cute", but does it help? `M-n' cycles among default values. Those values are _not_, in general, text at point in the buffer. They, or some of them, can be, of course. But `M-n' is more general - it's not necessarily, or even usually, about offering text at point as default values. IMO, it would be better to have a separate key for grabbing buffer text and inserting into the minibuffer. And that should NOT be only when reading with completion. Hence what I did with `M-.'. HTH. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 03 05:00:59 2021 Received: (at 48134) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2021 09:00:59 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46200 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ldURn-0000AM-3c for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 May 2021 05:00:59 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:39346) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ldURi-0008TE-9A for 48134@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 May 2021 05:00:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID :In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Imd5GcsWAcvayz0jL9TFN0SQXWBBU5aJ/3uORTycL2A=; b=DTQN+su0CTMWcPewPIeSr5ld/A 0ao9+eK2XCjd2LTqSXPVtMo7uhwL/oYLIYTBWq/D6w3f6KDkp6oXxnT2gUUp4l9tr4QO3N1vNCOVB Qy0WgWDRw/UFFxXGfIgSbFSvl9fYMP6KSxa7otEeHnzjyCNHlD50iCtpTKZzAQE9K8NY=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ldURZ-0002kG-2P; Mon, 03 May 2021 11:00:47 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin?= Le Gouguec Subject: Re: bug#48134: When sitting on top of a M-x item in the manual References: <87fsz73t9z.8.fsf@jidanni.org> <87sg36rfrw.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmyaodji.5.fsf@jidanni.org> <87czu9li9o.fsf@gnus.org> <875z01jewz.fsf@gmail.com> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEX18e6IenU7KCq6 qqP////NhAZvAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+UFAwgtITJYGwYAAAF1SURBVDjLnZRrloMg DIVD2YAJGzCwgdDsf29zA45infnT9Gg1H3kSJPpCWOoiysyiAwy91op3KLkQveoJtIm6O2V3I6oL 4KoFYOjTAgaDCfQOT3egbPjbwtPiSmrTZuMpfQDVsXbKLXj7A6jRG87JUcfdAu87kXWfIh+AjvQW C1wnuLmq/wFcrfOGarxH/DVGo7Q9LUquuyWT9wN43ayb9Bp1NFkAGpJ2YXkAaVT22kbheoENd9eC taOfi4UBNI+tD/a60rWuljmAyplViXidkmEi5tasLXFKvoUuVr0WgHGiXeoeJbZ0AI8oeEIG6rFv 7zmi1V7TokSmcraEIyR6mC2y6PyxH5hbnW2W+jlwI7nN+QEEHSyWDXs1gYxTAAs0tzg0uU+gA7Sw Mh+L0wUQOqatxWSdoHicgHASwxa36YpxKHCSMn4oPl8xmOdcTgNbY/ipyTdQfkEocdbyAU5PA4T4 BDeDKWkNbvRrmQ+LNz/lm0/PD+2LX9+nW6Z9AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIxLTA1LTAz VDA4OjQ1OjMzKzAwOjAwv2JNrwAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMS0wNS0wM1QwODo0NToz MyswMDowMM4/9RMAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: The Style Council's _The Complete Adventures (1)_: "Me Ship Came In!" Date: Mon, 03 May 2021 11:00:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: <875z01jewz.fsf@gmail.com> (=?utf-8?Q?=22K=C3=A9vin?= Le Gouguec"'s message of "Sun, 02 May 2021 18:09:32 +0200") Message-ID: <87zgxcchtv.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Kévin Le Gouguec writes: > I see that (info "(emacs) Minibuffer History") mentions its DWIM > behaviour and gives examples for filename prompts, but given how > ubiquitous and useful M-n is, I wonder if we couldn't do more to [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48134 Cc: 48134@debbugs.gnu.org, =?utf-8?B?56mN5Li55bC8?= Dan Jacobson X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) K=C3=A9vin Le Gouguec writes: > I see that (info "(emacs) Minibuffer History") mentions its DWIM > behaviour and gives examples for filename prompts, but given how > ubiquitous and useful M-n is, I wonder if we couldn't do more to > advertise it. Yeah, it is perhaps a too-hidden feature. > I realize that this would probably not be trivial to implement though. > Looking up "future history in minibuffer input" in the Elisp manual > brought me to (info "(elisp) Text from Minibuffer"), which lured me into > thinking that this hypothetical hint could simply be added in > read-from-minibuffer, by looking at the DEFAULT argument; a stroll > through read-extended-command taught me that some functions compute > their "future history" dynamically with minibuffer-default-add-function, > which I guess complicates things a bit? Yes, in general we don't really know whether we have anything in the future history until the user hits `M-n', I think? We could say something in the instances where we do know in advance, but users might infer from that that there's nothing in `M-n' if the message doesn't appear. And saying "M-n might reveal something" isn't very helpful either. --=20 (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Sat Sep 06 02:33:01 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Mon, 31 May 2021 11:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator