From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 07:51:22 2021 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 11:51:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57683 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcRg2-0006dU-9K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 07:51:22 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:52830) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcRg0-0006dN-OC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 07:51:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46886) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcRg0-0006R2-EM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 07:51:20 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:42974) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcRg0-0000po-62 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 07:51:20 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3328 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lcRfz-000411-Al for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 07:51:19 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 14:51:11 +0300 Message-Id: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) If you keep rebuilding Emacs from the Git repository using just the "make -jN" commands, to track the development branches, after some time loaddefs.el becomes outdated. To see the outdated parts, rename loaddefs.el and then say $ make -C lisp autoloads-force Then compare the old loaddefs.el with the newly created one: you will see many changes, depending on when was the last time you bootstrapped or otherwise regenerated loaddefs.el from scratch. This happens because regeneration of the parts of loaddefs.el affected by Lisp changes is unreliable and misses some changes, in particular those where autoloads from some Lisp files are redirected to private *-loaddefs.el files instead of the common loaddefs.el. These updates should happen automatically, they should not require people to "make bootstrap" or manually regenerate loaddefs.el. In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 122, i686-pc-mingw32) of 2021-04-30 built on HOME-C4E4A596F7 Repository revision: ab7a61e0efd0684bc37a556d12f36521f9f61782 Repository branch: master Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 System Description: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 3 (v5.1.0.2600) Configured using: 'configure -C --prefix=/d/usr --with-wide-int --with-native-compilation --enable-checking=yes,glyphs 'CFLAGS=-O0 -gdwarf-4 -g3'' Configured features: ACL GIF GMP GNUTLS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY W32NOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SOUND THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS XPM ZLIB Important settings: value of $LANG: ENU locale-coding-system: cp1255 Major mode: Lisp Interaction Minor modes in effect: tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t eldoc-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t line-number-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message rmc puny dired dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml mml-sec epa derived epg epg-config gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddefs auth-source eieio eieio-core eieio-loaddefs password-cache json map text-property-search time-date mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils comp comp-cstr warnings subr-x rx cl-seq cl-macs cl-extra help-mode seq byte-opt gv cl-loaddefs cl-lib bytecomp byte-compile cconv iso-transl tooltip eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel dos-w32 ls-lisp disp-table term/w32-win w32-win w32-vars term/common-win tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray cl-preloaded nadvice button loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote threads w32notify w32 lcms2 multi-tty make-network-process nativecomp emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 84237 12365) (symbols 48 8956 1) (strings 16 25167 3939) (string-bytes 1 768361) (vectors 16 16937) (vector-slots 8 295589 16641) (floats 8 28 124) (intervals 40 267 89) (buffers 888 11)) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 11:01:18 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 15:01:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59536 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcUdq-0003ZW-1D for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:01:18 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:59594) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcUdo-0003ZM-Hf for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:01:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1619794875; bh=rroJp5dWnCDUXr8q/Aq75M9UcjMqNzrpopjwrGrdegw=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=GFrwZPLQBNcBTnTPP9xSDAoMYEpC+slT4iZCNOFqHDqpKO/eHDriN0wy/DUGH36GZ xTAAPMYFXih8Dv3dSwlDGtOjomDOK1JTAtz20BpWWZBzP+UI/frzsfRMW1AWOEBJyb kyQdeiueUJulpsJDjn3o6daPsxRMIRjHqzYzmB2klIGdZKEKrdA+zMtQT2qzT1KHR8 sd3+KnW7jYSqZvWDMKtA7B4MAn4k9mPZpR58/iYnLyT4a1BdCbn3QICIq2EQfGp4wR 0Jy8gr1UM7veiDTqX8hr0t2dDo6VT4hqXLm/8gVjYn1xa0+3eXld/Cc+rEiNXyD3DK Qn6yRcocjQntw== Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:01:15 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable In-Reply-To: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > > If you keep rebuilding Emacs from the Git repository using just the > "make -jN" commands, to track the development branches, after some time > loaddefs.el becomes outdated. To see the outdated parts, rename > loaddefs.el and then say > > $ make -C lisp autoloads-force > > Then compare the old loaddefs.el with the newly created one: you will > see many changes, depending on when was the last time you bootstrapped > or otherwise regenerated loaddefs.el from scratch. > > This happens because regeneration of the parts of loaddefs.el affected > by Lisp changes is unreliable and misses some changes, in particular > those where autoloads from some Lisp files are redirected to private > *-loaddefs.el files instead of the common loaddefs.el. > > These updates should happen automatically, they should not require > people to "make bootstrap" or manually regenerate loaddefs.el. > Would it not make sense to include these changes in their respective commits? Another solution would be to have a cron job running somewhere and automatically pushing these changes once a day or so. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 11:03:56 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 15:03:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59540 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcUgO-0003d8-GF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:03:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58750) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcUgM-0003cu-J1 for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:03:54 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:48771) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcUgH-0000sS-Ci; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:03:49 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3448 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lcUgD-000481-Mt; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:03:48 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 18:03:39 +0300 Message-Id: <83lf8zbyr8.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: (message from Gregory Heytings on Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:01:15 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:01:15 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org > > > These updates should happen automatically, they should not require > > people to "make bootstrap" or manually regenerate loaddefs.el. > > > > Would it not make sense to include these changes in their respective > commits? loaddefs.el is a generated file (and so are the other *-loaddefs.el files). > Another solution would be to have a cron job running somewhere and > automatically pushing these changes once a day or so. How can we do that for files that aren't versioned? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 11:22:45 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 15:22:45 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59565 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcUyb-000456-0F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:22:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35362) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcUyZ-00044u-Eh for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:22:43 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49260) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcUyL-0008FI-NV for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:22:34 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lcUxs-0000C7-1d; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:22:02 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spook: Al Jazeera Exposure Sonora Drug Enforcement Agency X-Ran: `.7$XF!=oMp_}vdAa(Uh-M!*weO)HPTc[|+\L>;W6<" (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 30 Apr 2021 14:51:11 +0300") Message-ID: <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) This issue has been present forever. There are some comments in the Makefiles about it. There are several issues, eg: 1) autoload generation is slow. 2) the dependencies of the loaddefs files are unknown to make, and are basically "all lisp files". (You can't even say "just those files with autoload statements", because removing a previously existing autoload statement changes the output.) 3) Traditionally, re-making loaddefs files could make trivial changes to the output that weren't important (eg ordering of the "no autoloads" section, timestamping), but would still trigger re-dumping emacs. Which could then trigger regeneration of the autoloads, and re-dumping, etc. This may be better nowadays, since there is no longer timestamp information in the loaddefs files (see autoload-timestamps). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 11:38:53 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 15:38:53 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59588 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVED-0004TV-3m for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:38:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39012) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVEC-0004TI-J4 for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:38:52 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49627) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVE7-00052Q-DK for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:38:47 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVE3-00088e-U6; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:38:44 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms Mahmoud Ahmadinejad X-Ran: +Q="k7pMUqw6"R?{Os&>Vn X-Hue: brightred X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:38:43 -0400 In-Reply-To: <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (Glenn Morris's message of "Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:22:00 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) One idea, don't know if workable: always regenerate loaddefs, but using a temporary file name for the main loaddefs. use build-aux/move-if-change to only replace the real loaddefs file if there have been changes. Although again, it's possible these would not be "real" (ie significant) changes. This would mean every invocation of make would generate a loaddefs file, often for no need, which seems ugly. It's a trade off between doing things properly (which is a bootstrap) and efficiently, as has always been the case with Emacs's build. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 11:47:55 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 15:47:55 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59621 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVMx-0006ru-Ft for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:47:55 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:59678) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVMv-0006rk-Ac for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:47:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1619797672; bh=VOCmOf3W/6tDTaZ0tcNayVm3DfJD9J9Fo46Re7HeHUw=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=ay5glJLfG9ncxA3UQ5jATuvbnKnTkswELDbxYtR1dzaQ3QFptqs+0U+sVcqPPttM4 haFtyo66hogdPm+VUJVQ5nXbnXidVV0yLJGQA9NAWeJuebZMmrdmiuSNiRVpJaChEr Ps3OoLEhfVVHo6onqTGs9ow+eguPqf4aqCpWxOg2gde+nWonv0HV3L8G4C6Yp7g55N Vrkkme/IzBv9Hi4p1Lo/E+oUkUv1wq4UxMrFGi3DVnKLNRAzVEtz5b7GRMP74bTsZp QqZ0PxBSdYsGZ72JxZJSGv9hWo/U03RW44mEy9jFQRkiH8QBmXALEkd+0VJTzelBvL 90JsEThkPtT2w== Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:47:51 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable In-Reply-To: <83lf8zbyr8.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf8zbyr8.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>> These updates should happen automatically, they should not require >>> people to "make bootstrap" or manually regenerate loaddefs.el. >> >> Would it not make sense to include these changes in their respective >> commits? > > loaddefs.el is a generated file (and so are the other *-loaddefs.el > files). > Ah, yes, indeed. >> Another solution would be to have a cron job running somewhere and >> automatically pushing these changes once a day or so. > > How can we do that for files that aren't versioned? > I have two questions: Why are these files not versioned? The generated lisp/loaddefs.el file is AFAICS identical to the lisp/ldefs-boot.el (after calling admin/update_autogen -L), which is versioned. Why is the lisp/loaddefs.el generated? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 11:48:50 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 15:48:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59625 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVNp-0006tO-P5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:48:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41226) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVNo-0006tD-Kv for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:48:48 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49903) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVNj-0000KK-DE for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:48:43 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2213 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVNh-0000Y0-50; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:48:41 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 18:48:34 +0300 Message-Id: <83im43bwod.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Glenn Morris In-Reply-To: <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (message from Glenn Morris on Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:22:00 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Glenn Morris > Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:22:00 -0400 > > This issue has been present forever. Yes, I know. This isn't trivial, or else it would have been solved long ago. > 1) autoload generation is slow. Based on my latest experience, I think this is somewhat exaggerated, especially given that our builds became slower lately. > 2) the dependencies of the loaddefs files are unknown to make, > and are basically "all lisp files". (You can't even say "just those > files with autoload statements", because removing a previously existing > autoload statement changes the output.) > > 3) Traditionally, re-making loaddefs files could make trivial changes > to the output that weren't important (eg ordering of the "no > autoloads" section, timestamping), but would still trigger re-dumping emacs. > Which could then trigger regeneration of the autoloads, and > re-dumping, etc. This may be better nowadays, since there is no > longer timestamp information in the loaddefs files (see autoload-timestamps). What worries me the most is that when 'autoloads' is run (and it is, from time to time), we still end up with outdated loaddefs.el. I think we could live with outdated loaddefs.el for short periods of time, but it looks like running 'autoloads' only updates the part(s) of the file for Lisp files that the build thinks to be responsible for the update. Or something like that, because how else to explain that some parts remain outdated? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 11:51:43 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 15:51:43 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59633 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVQd-0006yA-FH for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:51:43 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41808) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVQb-0006xy-3P for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:51:41 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49932) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVQV-0001OD-La for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:51:35 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2392 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVQT-0000ii-Ss; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:51:34 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 18:51:28 +0300 Message-Id: <83czubbwjj.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Glenn Morris In-Reply-To: (message from Glenn Morris on Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:38:43 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Glenn Morris > Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:38:43 -0400 > > One idea, don't know if workable: > always regenerate loaddefs, but using a temporary file name for the > main loaddefs. > use build-aux/move-if-change to only replace the real loaddefs file if > there have been changes. Although again, it's possible these would not > be "real" (ie significant) changes. Thanks, I think it's worth trying. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 11:59:51 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 15:59:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59649 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVYV-0007AS-0W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:59:51 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:50490) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVYS-0007AH-IX for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:59:49 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FWxrz2NMMz1qsk7; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 17:59:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FWxrz0PYxz1qqkp; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 17:59:47 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0KtQO3TwUDuQ; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 17:59:46 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: Ipchhzt+pYCID/Huzottkj9yeTwySTrOA8bF640RQYhPOxUCikOEjT6CPgmoVoDs Received: from igel.home (ppp-46-244-182-186.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.182.186]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 17:59:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C21902C37B7; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 17:59:45 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Yow: .. the HIGHWAY is made out of LIME JELLO and my HONDA is a barbequed OYSTER! Yum! Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 17:59:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:38:43 -0400") Message-ID: <87zgxf930u.fsf@igel.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) On Apr 30 2021, Glenn Morris wrote: > always regenerate loaddefs, but using a temporary file name for the > main loaddefs. > use build-aux/move-if-change to only replace the real loaddefs file if > there have been changes. That's already what batch-update-autoloads does. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 12:01:16 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 16:01:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59653 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVZs-0008If-Ap for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 12:01:16 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43764) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVZq-0008CU-16 for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 12:01:14 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:50184) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVZk-0004x8-Lm; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 12:01:08 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2974 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVZc-0000Ue-Qo; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 12:01:03 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 19:00:55 +0300 Message-Id: <83a6pfbw3s.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: (message from Gregory Heytings on Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:47:51 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf8zbyr8.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:47:51 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org > > Why are these files not versioned? Because we try not to keep in Git any files that are generated by the build. It's redundant to have them there, and also causes frequent unnecessary conflicts. > The generated lisp/loaddefs.el file is AFAICS identical to the > lisp/ldefs-boot.el (after calling admin/update_autogen -L), which is > versioned. Why is the lisp/loaddefs.el generated? ldefs-boot.el is versioned because it is needed for the initial build of a fresh clone, and it is not identical to loaddefs.el, especially not when you are developing. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 12:04:14 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 16:04:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59657 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVcj-00010x-Vj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 12:04:14 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44388) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVci-00010l-QE for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 12:04:13 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:50265) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVcd-0005n1-IR; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 12:04:07 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3156 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVcU-0004EX-KN; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 12:03:59 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 19:03:53 +0300 Message-Id: <838s4zbvyu.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Andreas Schwab In-Reply-To: <87zgxf930u.fsf@igel.home> (message from Andreas Schwab on Fri, 30 Apr 2021 17:59:45 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87zgxf930u.fsf@igel.home> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Andreas Schwab > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 48117@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 17:59:45 +0200 > > On Apr 30 2021, Glenn Morris wrote: > > > always regenerate loaddefs, but using a temporary file name for the > > main loaddefs. > > use build-aux/move-if-change to only replace the real loaddefs file if > > there have been changes. > > That's already what batch-update-autoloads does. Judging by the results, that's not so. Specifically, batch-update-autoloads doesn't regenerate _all_ of the loaddefs.el, only some of its part(s). From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 12:21:17 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 16:21:17 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59716 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVtF-0001UP-5K for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 12:21:17 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.10]:54115) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcVt7-0001U8-Vd for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 12:21:15 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FWyKc5t1kz1rxY9; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 18:21:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FWyKc3Ml5z1qqkp; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 18:21:08 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AuFqhllltfKz; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 18:21:07 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: 9y7V3C2vZi6F4MHtSZG4aLC9TyTNMFv+vLa0Asi7nTcU561EUFjrZcDHhsc9N+Bx Received: from igel.home (ppp-46-244-182-186.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.182.186]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 18:21:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3CC642C37B7; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 18:21:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87zgxf930u.fsf@igel.home> <838s4zbvyu.fsf@gnu.org> X-Yow: Two LITTLE black dots and one BIG black dot...nice 'n' FLUFFY!! Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 18:21:07 +0200 In-Reply-To: <838s4zbvyu.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 30 Apr 2021 19:03:53 +0300") Message-ID: <87r1ir9218.fsf@igel.home> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) On Apr 30 2021, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Judging by the results, that's not so. Specifically, > batch-update-autoloads doesn't regenerate _all_ of the loaddefs.el, > only some of its part(s). Yes, because it calls update-directory-autoloads for each directory. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different." From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 13:10:11 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 17:10:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59727 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcWeZ-0002ni-Hj for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:10:11 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59274) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcWeY-0002nO-4y for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:10:10 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52409) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcWeS-0004dN-0g; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:10:04 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lcWeQ-0000c9-G9; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:10:02 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Andreas Schwab Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87zgxf930u.fsf@igel.home> X-Spook: Center for Disease Control CCS outage Mara salvatrucha X-Ran: mK6IBpF3N_vemDm5vl86ZD/yQkcR]v-F>V$U>C=#/O%k["ik/w/u/v1`zgXQRTb8~P"V^w X-Hue: brightcyan X-Debbugs-No-Ack: yes X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:10:02 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87zgxf930u.fsf@igel.home> (Andreas Schwab's message of "Fri, 30 Apr 2021 17:59:45 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Andreas Schwab wrote: > That's already what batch-update-autoloads does. Shows how much my memory is worth! :) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 13:25:48 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 17:25:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59737 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcWtg-0003Eh-2r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:25:48 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33932) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcWte-0003ET-Uv for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:25:47 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:52606) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcWtZ-0002eV-Dx for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:25:41 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lcWtU-0007wN-FC; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:25:36 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: Artistic Assassins UNCPCJ nkvd Cloud SSCI undercover War X-Ran: cgw9gM\t>'w!j[Q+*@7K%rG:iA`(ZQD!j'eut!&){z=E-aOnj4*d{*E4BgtZig4a&J&oJ1 X-Hue: brightgreen X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:25:36 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:38:43 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Another idea, FWIW: In the make rule for $(lisp)/loaddefs.el, if loaddefs.el exists and is older than ldefs-boot.el, start by copying the latter to the former. This ought to limit how outdated loaddefs can get? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 13:32:18 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 17:32:18 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59748 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcWzy-0003QP-0I for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:32:18 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:59826) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcWzv-0003QG-Su for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:32:16 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1619803934; bh=1r7HDvybgBK3tKGPot21bNyjAK8T3HDZzblTbrmEeuw=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=dKv2kx87gHyeyFOpmkKYlqqisKKak9HOqnjP8mAbBltnRmCCHgJfnxqu9EMb8pPvF Vt7GZNyN/CqCWPqcvksEhoD48NfujZ9clYdqyCVoMRn3oR8i+NEHCuIJQsoL1+Ozp4 8L3SIYVHok+Lr6YxJ0TuVuTBCzwSpykNGYBPltcyc4qjfppvyGPq2DwjQ8V3rDdYd8 7ZzFXjkF1kUMzfR+XWZvaPt5iQmuU84fAUhv8JvI7WS0qgLYG+qrGtRTkM8g0mFi1t ctww7O0ZcfH30VKMNSm9LeWqu3qw0IDTLPkp2osjT078WpkXA5PqHZRVYnv8FX/Z47 emPY71+3Ojl+Q== Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 17:32:13 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable In-Reply-To: <83a6pfbw3s.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf8zbyr8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6pfbw3s.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> The generated lisp/loaddefs.el file is AFAICS identical to the >> lisp/ldefs-boot.el (after calling admin/update_autogen -L), which is >> versioned. Why is the lisp/loaddefs.el generated? > > ldefs-boot.el is versioned because it is needed for the initial build of > a fresh clone, and it is not identical to loaddefs.el, especially not > when you are developing. > Can ldefs-boot.el not be used to detect whether loaddefs.el needs to be regenerated? ISTM that if one assumes that ldefs-boot.el is kept up to date, it is necessary to regenerate the loaddefs file only when ldefs-boot.el becomes more recent than the loaddefs file. This would avoid rebuilding the loaddefs file on each make invocation. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 13:54:19 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 17:54:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59783 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcXLH-00067V-DK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:54:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40168) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcXLG-00067K-CA for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:54:18 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53347) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcXLA-0006bE-N4; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:54:12 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1920 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lcXL7-0004d4-Hd; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:54:10 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 20:54:04 +0300 Message-Id: <835z03bqv7.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Andreas Schwab In-Reply-To: <87r1ir9218.fsf@igel.home> (message from Andreas Schwab on Fri, 30 Apr 2021 18:21:07 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87zgxf930u.fsf@igel.home> <838s4zbvyu.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1ir9218.fsf@igel.home> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Andreas Schwab > Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 48117@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 18:21:07 +0200 > > On Apr 30 2021, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > Judging by the results, that's not so. Specifically, > > batch-update-autoloads doesn't regenerate _all_ of the loaddefs.el, > > only some of its part(s). > > Yes, because it calls update-directory-autoloads for each directory. AFAIU, Glenn's proposal was to process all the directories. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 13:59:10 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 17:59:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59791 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcXPy-0006F2-6l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:59:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41204) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcXPw-0006Ep-Pt for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:59:09 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:53462) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcXPq-0000Kg-Tn for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:59:03 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2220 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lcXPo-0008Nb-L5; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:59:01 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 20:58:55 +0300 Message-Id: <8335v7bqn4.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Glenn Morris In-Reply-To: (message from Glenn Morris on Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:25:36 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Glenn Morris > Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:25:36 -0400 > > Another idea, FWIW: > In the make rule for $(lisp)/loaddefs.el, if loaddefs.el exists and is > older than ldefs-boot.el, start by copying the latter to the former. > This ought to limit how outdated loaddefs can get? Yes, I think this is a good idea. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 14:57:15 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 18:57:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59840 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcYKB-0007fb-8u for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 14:57:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51542) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcYK9-0007fP-UO for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 14:57:14 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54500) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcYK4-0003Re-5Y; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 14:57:08 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1786 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lcYK3-0000BW-FA; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 14:57:07 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 21:57:02 +0300 Message-Id: <83tunna9dt.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: (message from Gregory Heytings on Fri, 30 Apr 2021 17:32:13 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf8zbyr8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6pfbw3s.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 17:32:13 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org > > Can ldefs-boot.el not be used to detect whether loaddefs.el needs to be > regenerated? I believe that's what Glenn suggested a few minutes ago. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 15:08:52 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 19:08:52 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59844 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcYVQ-0007wV-C5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:08:52 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:59990) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcYVO-0007wL-9l for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:08:51 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1619809729; bh=pWVepf8eBHIVfqtni+7xLTlfFwVmeajp4g0VmWzYXaE=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=oh5dCCHNi+Rm0JcAbDTJb+x+a5L907YeP7+yFZmOVT2OKrkzGuJAnkjAWGocG22v4 CNNxvXtzorD5qZDZPG57boj5N6jXND2fnkifEof9QItbEuISTbrrMbVSaJrz/t2QEW yOx/NrJQmy6i0ok+vyaP8Y6rAA3u4Z/RWcqKiXGez0zXOXEVsTeLG7mNRrTau31/ge a6YeLXHby5xqRkUjDvEFSBu/ZtvE2xsjyiZEiRm2FLhtocim2Fp7FGSmiCim2BCak9 GJ8c37q9Z5lRWUdYaMPDYOGrI2+X3LEEDsDLFu8m5jVzL28jDmAZRfeRyqRac6nuhG 8VGdH5r4POdVQ== Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 19:08:48 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable In-Reply-To: <83tunna9dt.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf8zbyr8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6pfbw3s.fsf@gnu.org> <83tunna9dt.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> Can ldefs-boot.el not be used to detect whether loaddefs.el needs to be >> regenerated? > > I believe that's what Glenn suggested a few minutes ago. > Yes, it's more or less the same idea, our mails crossed each other because of the lists.gnu.org delivery time. Note that, as I said, this won't work without keeping ldefs-boot.el up to date. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 15:10:27 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 19:10:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59848 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcYWx-0007z8-NA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:10:27 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54336) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcYWw-0007yw-3J for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:10:26 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:54824) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcYWq-0002r7-V2; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:10:20 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:2727 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lcYWq-0005eH-7V; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:10:20 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 22:10:15 +0300 Message-Id: <83r1ira8rs.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: (message from Gregory Heytings on Fri, 30 Apr 2021 19:08:48 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf8zbyr8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6pfbw3s.fsf@gnu.org> <83tunna9dt.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 19:08:48 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org > > Note that, as I said, this won't work without keeping ldefs-boot.el up to > date. We (read: Glenn) already do. You can see that in "git log". From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 15:20:12 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Apr 2021 19:20:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59854 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcYgO-0008D3-Mg for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:20:12 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:60008) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcYgM-0008Cp-3s for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:20:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1619810408; bh=pGG0BHDYs0uM95pbS+shuFJwsKJdLXiwp8q/POu+x+g=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=U0S+sQ/neeiI5gM9xpZEg7o+T/ZdxEYpR46pbq7PZUFdApawb3aN0zCEMUpCr0UGE DjBrV+uvZpw46xopKBJvkRpQp61JK3I8FQptijB1DZdB5lYphslZD4yNdZDEynsXNQ hZCXLZHeC9q1m/Fwj2btArT9E5DqxPk9dUlxW8Oon/jvpazVttlz+Ns6Fs2YIFwIH2 Bug4uaL4WSiEwtkS4fBIsZfgolWkvARu3GX/qdDljm+8ar4u4kxavaBjWGrv5DZakI +NhzWHTtCqficq0D8Z24hvD9KSI+y67GmEKxCBzNzLO6xYusUNL5Uu632UAs4DX56Q YW5fS2Y51ZS1A== Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 19:20:08 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable In-Reply-To: <83r1ira8rs.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf8zbyr8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6pfbw3s.fsf@gnu.org> <83tunna9dt.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1ira8rs.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> Note that, as I said, this won't work without keeping ldefs-boot.el up >> to date. > > We (read: Glenn) already do. You can see that in "git log". > I think this should preferably be automated. The current ldefs-boot.el file in the trunk is 25 days old, running admin/update_autogen -L adds 247 lines and modifies 100 lines. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 30 20:17:04 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2021 00:17:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60066 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcdJg-0006rh-81 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 20:17:04 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58950) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcdJe-0006rA-F3 for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 20:17:02 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34175) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcdJX-00043l-PX; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 20:16:56 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lcdJV-0007t0-2Z; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 20:16:53 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Gregory Heytings Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf8zbyr8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6pfbw3s.fsf@gnu.org> <83tunna9dt.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1ira8rs.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spook: Border GSS Shayet-13 Hamas Bomb threat SEAL 2600 Magazine X-Ran: BV;,r0VyPcdljDnX4o3w|,PD;B89^$DQhHtw>`YW{E,f\a+J#e*SG)AD*t8@aZ#I@k#S\_ X-Hue: yellow X-Attribution: GM Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 20:16:52 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Gregory Heytings's message of "Fri, 30 Apr 2021 19:20:08 +0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Gregory Heytings wrote: > I think this should preferably be automated. The current > ldefs-boot.el file in the trunk is 25 days old, running > admin/update_autogen -L adds 247 lines and modifies 100 lines. It gets automaticallly updated on the first of the month. It could be more frequent, but it would seem like churn for no real reason most of the time. (It wouldn't make any difference to the issue that prompted this report.) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 01 04:09:44 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2021 08:09:44 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60221 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lckh6-00043Z-BQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 04:09:44 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:60796) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lckh5-00043R-9u for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 04:09:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1619856582; bh=3fygl6c3j4/qL/Aq375bcN7oBN3EDWwsVih4s+HEFh0=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=YTcX0lJZ3XB0xsWaBh5hWyoGsCPSf8n/8p+maR7P4yB0+TtvrjerfdcsG8wiQ1jjp FeGkb6AqltISJ6ShpFxOh61xChlYnKkhhdiPNYtt5CDDSnhmtiOS872ZqCe06EuA/D viN2ajWfAF7h14FYwF6S51sD6Zu49tucTnSO6Em0ic2zFpre30RhFgRAmdLEdS0gXD BqbfvUN5hqlKbxap+wXV269j768zB0tUPUjciRSAH+KSKXUUxvkcq/8RDilOZTuo6x LHNycFu+oTJzADGT1mepPoy+zI3XMM8kB5m0X8/odTsYixvPN+nQxB9mSrO17mVvvo J5wg2T65S7VNw== Date: Sat, 01 May 2021 08:09:42 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4edb1435266f8ca80b73@heytings.org> References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf8zbyr8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6pfbw3s.fsf@gnu.org> <83tunna9dt.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1ira8rs.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> I think this should preferably be automated. The current ldefs-boot.el >> file in the trunk is 25 days old, running admin/update_autogen -L adds >> 247 lines and modifies 100 lines. > > It gets automaticallly updated on the first of the month. It could be > more frequent, but it would seem like churn for no real reason most of > the time. > IMO once a week would be better. An outdated ldefs-boot creates unnecessary warnings during the build. > > (It wouldn't make any difference to the issue that prompted this > report.) > That depends on the chosen solution. You suggested copying ldefs-boot.el onto loaddefs.el when it is more recent. I'm not entirely sure, but it seems to me that forcing a regeneration of the loaddefs files during make whenever ldefs-boot.el is more recent than loaddefs.el would be a better solution. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 01 04:25:57 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2021 08:25:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60237 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lckwn-0004Rg-1H for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 04:25:57 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59010) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lckwl-0004RS-Po for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 04:25:56 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:40955) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lckwf-00008k-2h; Sat, 01 May 2021 04:25:50 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3784 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lckwc-0005vu-OI; Sat, 01 May 2021 04:25:48 -0400 Date: Sat, 01 May 2021 11:25:40 +0300 Message-Id: <83fsz6amij.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: <4edb1435266f8ca80b73@heytings.org> (message from Gregory Heytings on Sat, 01 May 2021 08:09:42 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf8zbyr8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6pfbw3s.fsf@gnu.org> <83tunna9dt.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1ira8rs.fsf@gnu.org> <4edb1435266f8ca80b73@heytings.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sat, 01 May 2021 08:09:42 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: Eli Zaretskii , 48117@debbugs.gnu.org > > You suggested copying ldefs-boot.el onto loaddefs.el when it is more > recent. I'm not entirely sure, but it seems to me that forcing a > regeneration of the loaddefs files during make whenever > ldefs-boot.el is more recent than loaddefs.el would be a better > solution. Your proposal would produce marginally better results for a significantly longer build time, so I don't think it's a net win. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 01 05:20:56 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2021 09:20:57 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60271 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lclnz-0002YP-RP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 05:20:56 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:60870) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lclnx-0002XX-1Q for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 05:20:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1619860851; bh=tkgcjXU4ofL6xgPxhDlmC34bnwU/fA5mq2193mrRiVo=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=c2kYd9cWt4Z3LrBaj2wtnNTvgFcwcwUhia2/MmOpyHN7ugS1/fJMt1uwKr80AHFG9 SdZecgcaKPVQr3JXfC/MAdnkLF1TNI+S6p7YrSb0WR8kcvcbUH4ZiXaie1+Jgwknda za5eNkh/uweqH082Ci76qOmsuxUsGAjWuwIyS4tUIdK0IvNumKZ2UV6F3XCx7pYAdH urn+HzDVcEYY3eo68g+4JSBykcoURxjBEM1GIDNaAfDrux9YeX4TbjjIUFPCTjNN3a ycuDPkMeI9O/qO3qH/PvWLXy79pQV0e7KyqW7tCASk2nA3zVw3eQQU5cEifry0blll O8BBdyGxFrNrw== Date: Sat, 01 May 2021 09:20:51 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable In-Reply-To: <83fsz6amij.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <4edb143526eb913b641f@heytings.org> References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf8zbyr8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6pfbw3s.fsf@gnu.org> <83tunna9dt.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1ira8rs.fsf@gnu.org> <4edb1435266f8ca80b73@heytings.org> <83fsz6amij.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> You suggested copying ldefs-boot.el onto loaddefs.el when it is more >> recent. I'm not entirely sure, but it seems to me that forcing a >> regeneration of the loaddefs files during make whenever ldefs-boot.el >> is more recent than loaddefs.el would be a better solution. > > Your proposal would produce marginally better results for a > significantly longer build time, so I don't think it's a net win. > If ldefs-boot.el is updated, say, once a week, this would force the regeneration of the loaddefs files at most once a week. Wouldn't that be a reasonable compromise? On my computer, regenerating the loaddefs files takes about 10 seconds, or ~3% of the time of a make bootstrap. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 01 05:35:01 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2021 09:35:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60279 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcm1d-0005gL-2S for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 05:35:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40796) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcm1b-0005eu-P3 for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 05:35:00 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:41375) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcm1W-000863-2O; Sat, 01 May 2021 05:34:54 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4205 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lcm1U-0006np-BQ; Sat, 01 May 2021 05:34:52 -0400 Date: Sat, 01 May 2021 12:34:46 +0300 Message-Id: <837dkiajbd.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: <4edb143526eb913b641f@heytings.org> (message from Gregory Heytings on Sat, 01 May 2021 09:20:51 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf8zbyr8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6pfbw3s.fsf@gnu.org> <83tunna9dt.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1ira8rs.fsf@gnu.org> <4edb1435266f8ca80b73@heytings.org> <83fsz6amij.fsf@gnu.org> <4edb143526eb913b641f@heytings.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sat, 01 May 2021 09:20:51 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: rgm@gnu.org, 48117@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Your proposal would produce marginally better results for a > > significantly longer build time, so I don't think it's a net win. > > If ldefs-boot.el is updated, say, once a week, this would force the > regeneration of the loaddefs files at most once a week. Wouldn't that be > a reasonable compromise? Compromise between which alternatives? The "marginally better" results in your proposal are that if someone updates from Git when he/she is in the middle of some development, then loaddefs.el are made up-to-date immediately, as opposed to _maybe_ waiting for the next update of ldefs-boot.el. (I say "maybe" because in general loaddefs.el _are_ updated as part of routine builds, just not 100% reliably so.) > On my computer, regenerating the loaddefs files takes about 10 > seconds, or ~3% of the time of a make bootstrap. Keep in mind that some people use less powerful machines. And the bootstrap time is not relevant, because loaddefs.el is completely regenerated during bootstrap anyway. The time that is relevant is the time of just "make", and that is usually quite short, even on slow machines. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 01 08:29:14 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2021 12:29:14 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36346 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcokD-00051Y-UK for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 08:29:14 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:32836) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcokD-00051S-7v for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 08:29:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1619872152; bh=iqS0QHwAYeguvcsSGVCGIZBArykjI0HgTP+iPFzB8e0=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=CSENOYPlQp5yR0tvn8dHSI956JNRLCb/r+/HUX0OYMjRibSCtfx24L8jBkMCDsKtw 8aSrH5A4CCPBvi11knNErk4abVJSy1eBxptGmJzBrBrjfOQLmpONiBUUg5bwR6xFFk EqcKyyUWcbIdfWsw2QsPTSMuzEiRRDo4sPPgR04/S4hJvfd2tELk2clnnMUQ4sy8zP mZIVOlcMIAuy/gIaYNggQMfzzY8RSGiF0k5OEKsBlkWPlSnREShCXi3KuIsrqDT/rN p1oIrg099Q2gCDg2kJJPTJ78aNA+XgFbj5vbMwr38RG19sUEOnkT6F8KBZtS4U6xpr OL6JYKOoy+zGQ== Date: Sat, 01 May 2021 12:29:12 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable In-Reply-To: <837dkiajbd.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <4edb143526f99ac92176@heytings.org> References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf8zbyr8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6pfbw3s.fsf@gnu.org> <83tunna9dt.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1ira8rs.fsf@gnu.org> <4edb1435266f8ca80b73@heytings.org> <83fsz6amij.fsf@gnu.org> <4edb143526eb913b641f@heytings.org> <837dkiajbd.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >>> Your proposal would produce marginally better results for a >>> significantly longer build time, so I don't think it's a net win. >> >> If ldefs-boot.el is updated, say, once a week, this would force the >> regeneration of the loaddefs files at most once a week. Wouldn't that >> be a reasonable compromise? > > Compromise between which alternatives? > I see at least the following possible alternatives: - the current situation, which you describe in your original post, in which the loaddefs files need to be regenerated manually (inconvenient) - regenerating the loaddefs files for each make invocation (inefficient) - copying the ldefs-boot.el onto loaddefs.el when it is more recent (which IIUC could lose local additions to loaddefs.el) - automatically regenerating the loaddefs files when ldefs-boot.el is more recent than loaddefs.el (which I understand could be a bit slow) - issue only a warning when make is invoked and ldefs-boot.el is more recent than loaddefs.el (and perhaps add a autoloads or loaddefs target to the main Makefile) From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sat May 01 09:01:13 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2021 13:01:13 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36360 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcpFA-0005It-UP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 09:01:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46468) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lcpF8-0005In-Uf for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 09:01:11 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:43030) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcpF3-0005gU-2T; Sat, 01 May 2021 09:01:05 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3024 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lcpEz-0007ux-KO; Sat, 01 May 2021 09:01:02 -0400 Date: Sat, 01 May 2021 16:00:53 +0300 Message-Id: <831raqa9ru.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Gregory Heytings In-Reply-To: <4edb143526f99ac92176@heytings.org> (message from Gregory Heytings on Sat, 01 May 2021 12:29:12 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf8zbyr8.fsf@gnu.org> <83a6pfbw3s.fsf@gnu.org> <83tunna9dt.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1ira8rs.fsf@gnu.org> <4edb1435266f8ca80b73@heytings.org> <83fsz6amij.fsf@gnu.org> <4edb143526eb913b641f@heytings.org> <837dkiajbd.fsf@gnu.org> <4edb143526f99ac92176@heytings.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sat, 01 May 2021 12:29:12 +0000 > From: Gregory Heytings > cc: rgm@gnu.org, 48117@debbugs.gnu.org > > > Compromise between which alternatives? > > > > I see at least the following possible alternatives: My point is that the gain from your proposal wrt the next best alternative is small, but the price is too high. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 02 03:28:16 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 May 2021 07:28:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41131 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ld6WV-0007Rw-R4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 03:28:16 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:55074) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ld6WU-0007Rq-07 for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 03:28:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=g4mUxqoO1sHIu/9FRe46zsUb/HXk+yMud8RpIMULa0o=; b=WVL3wOBoTfcO61LV9EI37ZFy/w LkFhKQ3q88dRiul8r+XXEWve+fA3Nq2lhpXLe+yED2gfCc3kSuEsx1xEkqFB30MLhBLbam4lRUNTl 0kayzOf2RJHYlP/05g14jIRIurCdh2PFxrQM1vVSqBg/wBrxrVuq/Ji3oUVo6pF7qP5M=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ld6WL-0003px-BW; Sun, 02 May 2021 09:28:07 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83im43bwod.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: Zola Jesus's _New Amsterdam_: "Dog" Date: Sun, 02 May 2021 09:28:04 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83im43bwod.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 30 Apr 2021 18:48:34 +0300") Message-ID: <87r1ipk323.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> 1) autoload generation is slow. > > Based on my latest experience, I think this is somewhat exaggerated, > especially given that our builds became slower lately. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: Glenn Morris , 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii writes: >> 1) autoload generation is slow. > > Based on my latest experience, I think this is somewhat exaggerated, > especially given that our builds became slower lately. Has it? I haven't noticed any substantial slow-down... (Unless you mean with native-comp switched on.) In any case, autoload generation takes a substantial chunk of time -- especially since it's single-threaded. Glenn's suggestion to copy over ldefs-boot.el (if it's newer) sounds like a good idea to me. (And I'd also like if that file was regenerated more often than once a month...) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 02 03:41:29 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 May 2021 07:41:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41227 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ld6jJ-0001LO-ME for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 03:41:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48474) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ld6jI-0001LI-5D for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 03:41:28 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:57557) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ld6jC-0007qb-Q8; Sun, 02 May 2021 03:41:22 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3839 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ld6jB-0008Kg-JF; Sun, 02 May 2021 03:41:22 -0400 Date: Sun, 02 May 2021 10:41:01 +0300 Message-Id: <834kfl8twy.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Lars Ingebrigtsen In-Reply-To: <87r1ipk323.fsf@gnus.org> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Sun, 02 May 2021 09:28:04 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83im43bwod.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1ipk323.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Lars Ingebrigtsen > Cc: Glenn Morris , 48117@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 02 May 2021 09:28:04 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> 1) autoload generation is slow. > > > > Based on my latest experience, I think this is somewhat exaggerated, > > especially given that our builds became slower lately. > > Has it? I haven't noticed any substantial slow-down... (Unless you > mean with native-comp switched on.) Yes, native-comp, certainly. But the build became slower a year or so ago as well, I no longer remember why. > In any case, autoload generation takes a substantial chunk of time -- > especially since it's single-threaded. Glenn's suggestion to copy over > ldefs-boot.el (if it's newer) sounds like a good idea to me. Yes, I agree. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 02 12:59:41 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 May 2021 16:59:41 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43721 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ldFRV-0004xa-Id for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 12:59:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33778) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ldFRT-0004xU-D2 for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 12:59:40 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35383) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ldFRO-0004mE-3L for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 12:59:34 -0400 Received: from rgm by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ldFR8-0002lh-22; Sun, 02 May 2021 12:59:19 -0400 From: Glenn Morris To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spook: Phishing Elvis AMEMB mania ICE Social media Mudslide BOSS X-Ran: 3C4[u}l'i[o;e([T8Lj~<:Sux"(nWhB?'QL(^kK`$hH~5TF]+(jzC:Ly5EIP8onQ6UQ!(P X-Hue: magenta X-Attribution: GM Date: Sun, 02 May 2021 12:59:17 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:25:36 -0400") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Glenn Morris wrote: > Another idea, FWIW: > In the make rule for $(lisp)/loaddefs.el, if loaddefs.el exists and is > older than ldefs-boot.el, start by copying the latter to the former. > This ought to limit how outdated loaddefs can get? BTW, I think this might actually make things worse in terms of detecting new secondary loaddefs files like texinfo-loaddefs (not that those happen very often), by bumping the timestamp on the primary loaddefs. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun May 02 14:55:10 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 May 2021 18:55:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44190 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ldHFG-00086x-FR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 14:55:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50256) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ldHFD-00086c-Nj for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 14:55:09 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:38450) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ldHF6-0008I0-Vp for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 May 2021 14:55:01 -0400 Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:1896 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ldHF5-00037H-Oj; Sun, 02 May 2021 14:55:00 -0400 Date: Sun, 02 May 2021 21:54:42 +0300 Message-Id: <83h7jl6k5p.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Glenn Morris In-Reply-To: (message from Glenn Morris on Sun, 02 May 2021 12:59:17 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Glenn Morris > Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 02 May 2021 12:59:17 -0400 > > Glenn Morris wrote: > > > Another idea, FWIW: > > In the make rule for $(lisp)/loaddefs.el, if loaddefs.el exists and is > > older than ldefs-boot.el, start by copying the latter to the former. > > This ought to limit how outdated loaddefs can get? > > BTW, I think this might actually make things worse in terms of detecting > new secondary loaddefs files like texinfo-loaddefs (not that those > happen very often), by bumping the timestamp on the primary loaddefs. But there's no such thing as detecting new secondary loaddefs, right? The only remedy for that is "make autoloads-force", right? From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Mon May 03 04:41:54 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 May 2021 08:41:54 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46178 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ldU9K-0005P1-KX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 May 2021 04:41:54 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:35274) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ldU9G-0005Ov-2J for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 03 May 2021 04:41:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1620031309; bh=cWBOzvKNi3MUAHCQh1xPwPLmgfSWt6qjerZDAI7hS6U=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=m4v0ONG4t5mIcCof/aFrIKOkql0MjtD7MsxAoW+a1AhSCJIG6b5kGWMPlfhBg2fjT WeaJJOJDn9Wm13y5viIXBSBWF/zbgy7zrTBp/73Kuppz2gxGq8pbhgZk0Yuk2lWDWE ermbJ6aG0wXN+DVGdI8050Utf0fnSKaAwoRmCAOr5t4+ynl5/l3F9ko6YxSCQsB0O6 U3jSjl4FiHvseqA7RoB8HIJOxA3/pIqQg2qYJPYyaqanXklMqFhmMb1shnu+8r70OH 7HAL9iIYascbywj8AheXQSNgB00QBoacyk0Em0SAq5MJBqqESGU1ImqNAD422m+ZQ8 qxPD/CALM39tQ== Date: Mon, 03 May 2021 08:41:49 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings To: Glenn Morris Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) >> Another idea, FWIW: In the make rule for $(lisp)/loaddefs.el, if >> loaddefs.el exists and is older than ldefs-boot.el, start by copying >> the latter to the former. This ought to limit how outdated loaddefs can >> get? > > BTW, I think this might actually make things worse in terms of detecting > new secondary loaddefs files like texinfo-loaddefs (not that those > happen very often), by bumping the timestamp on the primary loaddefs. > Which is one of the reasons why I still believe that my proposed solution is better: whenever lisp/ldefs-boot.el is more recent than lisp/loaddefs.el, issue a warning when make is invoked to suggest the regeneration of _all_ autoload files, and add a command to do this in the main Makefile: make autoloads would do find -name '*loaddefs.el' -delete && make -C lisp autoloads. In theory this should have the same effect as make -C lisp autoloads-force, but that command is only marginally faster, and I much prefer the clarity / determinicity of a "delete all and regenerate" operation. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 07 19:36:36 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Dec 2021 00:36:36 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39022 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mukwl-00071V-SD for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2021 19:36:36 -0500 Received: from mail-pl1-f181.google.com ([209.85.214.181]:34504) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mukwh-00071G-I7 for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2021 19:36:34 -0500 Received: by mail-pl1-f181.google.com with SMTP id y8so432483plg.1 for <48117@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 07 Dec 2021 16:36:31 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=e3Dq68W/UUI6VLSNgmPTa9qqGMp3A7WJHiJxawGWYlM=; b=aEpcqlzk2F/aaTRRXF3iSch0X3GJ3LoAdwZI5fU4LLZhGRh96RUd2MXQoGVuWobUXX +vpMBv9kxnDh0cOzhij2l9c/kCIcI2xjRWJQXt2KwEPdtL9E8GDMDRUDCidHfVUcL4Ie 4Kj+WXxd+2eu0Xun57MuD1NVeAyafriL8LuOcvjEQPGz13wOBLcF5G7PxBmSfrEoc9dF wcEaxulioMAk6S9lwerenFNbxW810nYGiiHNWYXdmOpL4Nt4yro3Rb03gticqri3TrXq /IrpyRonvfzqRMWITFTY+MW891ghbCo7A5i9URngwgPONgc/hWaYs9Uxdoe/60Zh/FoU IrLQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531KJJG8Cf1+S7WSiQTxkAr/i8NV8EY+ZEAMHCK7gzf0CTn67b9G K8iPViu68CdF8dFJh970PctdRU80Fg0zIcMgxHk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzAeyDZ8aexmPVgev8rxGY5y3CrK/jonBqAah1lL3VmaNjyBpR3awnrJFEGBtpyVjJ47rBQMPubsTbG7VHdf0I= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:e294:b0:143:86a8:c56d with SMTP id o20-20020a170902e29400b0014386a8c56dmr54809332plc.22.1638923785866; Tue, 07 Dec 2021 16:36:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 8 Dec 2021 01:36:25 +0100 From: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: <87r1ipk323.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sun, 02 May 2021 09:28:04 +0200") References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83im43bwod.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1ipk323.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 01:36:25 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: Glenn Morris , Eli Zaretskii , 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > In any case, autoload generation takes a substantial chunk of time -- > especially since it's single-threaded. Glenn's suggestion to copy over > ldefs-boot.el (if it's newer) sounds like a good idea to me. (And I'd > also like if that file was regenerated more often than once a month...) If Eli agrees, I'm happy to update ldefs-boot.el more frequently. Just let me know how often you want it updated and I will make it so. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 07 19:40:48 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Dec 2021 00:40:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39026 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mul0b-000776-CQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2021 19:40:48 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:55732) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mul0V-00076o-Es for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2021 19:40:31 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=bVS3SwppZVg2/R+dTFu/rfVc6WcnRoUumr5qikO2IZI=; b=Ho3BhjgIyHTrb378SqI4JO8PNO rbeROmHKfXlPRC/R9laqAjHVE6fTqYmjPPl3PttUnnhFsUPZ1vfmUt2udmVklBfnGaS94vQ9D9L13 WMX9zVmRyW3QOfRMLhUOgP9sb/InPjLlRK/H32gAlZIyfz7tfFGUIPSRB+o9jkMAOCEY=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mul0L-0003uh-R4; Wed, 08 Dec 2021 01:40:20 +0100 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Stefan Kangas Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83im43bwod.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1ipk323.fsf@gnus.org> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEVPNjWZXVfEvb// //9Q/fqmAAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+UMCAAUELkAIk4AAAGXSURBVCjPPZHPatwwEMZH ix3ITQV7qfeUlrQ0fYrZkO1ZBgmaPbmwXoqfwqeedahLm5MXbFPNU/YbL+nnP+hnj0bfzBBBT4d9 sLpgMgGqJwW5KuD+D6oZMF+XqVOIiyRc0iWSxGeZd60G0GXmWhbfLsPzQmPtY/rMUR5uP1CzaWN1 b7gssgInnfj9uOVHSw4WQm+mb/zoCkulD55802z6CyAA4NI8XRzBpCPL2IstJX40WAbNpf5nfSHg 1fU8hGs9CTnMpJCWqcKH4fcZKWVpdoAlaRdksLnWsoZdTiv8ce8Ao+3Ll+7rSfsEJ4fv0k04Uk+l T1m7izDx1gCyrLpbHeVquLo55a40fEt5yDPzd+9gTl0fiTwVIRxZizMSiY5DYC3ByFqD8xQ6b7SG AQ/NcgUVTS/OJBnPK6RjYSTFj4tEDbM6ia2k/hfFZ9JJvBHPW4o3TGMR6h8/2ZEzfdbQQ91/8dpJ 1T33m3YFtc5MDcBQRXmJMm1P5hAqs/YWwoLRUWfJWrhOex0Rdup8Ws4D0uavma/a/APzo7LZSoHr TgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMS0xMi0wOFQwMDoyMDoxNiswMDowMI5iLK8AAAAldEVY dGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjEtMTItMDhUMDA6MjA6MTYrMDA6MDD/P5QTAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Talking Heads's _The Name Of This Band Is Talking Heads_: "track" Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2021 01:40:14 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Wed, 8 Dec 2021 01:36:25 +0100") Message-ID: <875ys06ia9.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas writes: > If Eli agrees, I'm happy to update ldefs-boot.el more frequently. > > Just let me know how often you want it updated and I will make it so. I usually just update it now if I add an ;;;###autoload somewhere -- updating that file kinda goes hand in hand with that. (I added a new "make ldefs-boot.el" Makefile target to make it more convenien [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: Glenn Morris , Eli Zaretskii , 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas writes: > If Eli agrees, I'm happy to update ldefs-boot.el more frequently. > > Just let me know how often you want it updated and I will make it so. I usually just update it now if I add an ;;;###autoload somewhere -- updating that file kinda goes hand in hand with that. (I added a new "make ldefs-boot.el" Makefile target to make it more convenient.) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 07 22:32:46 2021 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Dec 2021 03:32:46 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39311 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1munh7-0002yY-Co for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2021 22:32:46 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:54842) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1munh6-0002yM-6C for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2021 22:32:36 -0500 Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=41498 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1munh0-0006ig-NO; Tue, 07 Dec 2021 22:32:30 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=zOzEll/SMCGEaP6N1C8GEZj/V6bxfTOCbH4WWjVC4AQ=; b=WeyMDGy/dYIv I35t0AYeLJp0d+JEAgyeoVQyL1OHvu30ZYrgRLN1e7SXa+f+a5Jw2yrhnKy4LNuxdUxDr53FJuIg8 LJHUNifLE33wWJORkDyouIs4Y9UoQ0CtOyAqTS7B9UbJ4KDkExTz2Plps/PP44U1nV9nTWtGWV6OF 2gcHR1ZFWRRuXxHFZ/HgJBKtbCAowVOuWH9esQ6dqnzJB5CdTnF0oDR9iOGEt21cN0mt0Xmn2AjqM /3fGuJQm+Q1czs12UrBO05FtLlXeU2CjGW9u3WfbanCsjNhW3b3DzMS5wkBBsArMuKfL4sORg4Tmt iD/c6JUhQZyVyCWNKY2bzQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2226 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1munh0-0004eK-FJ; Tue, 07 Dec 2021 22:32:30 -0500 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2021 05:32:16 +0200 Message-Id: <83ee6nydof.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Wed, 8 Dec 2021 01:36:25 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> <2weeer23xj.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83im43bwod.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1ipk323.fsf@gnus.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: rgm@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 01:36:25 +0100 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Glenn Morris , 48117@debbugs.gnu.org > > Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > > > In any case, autoload generation takes a substantial chunk of time -- > > especially since it's single-threaded. Glenn's suggestion to copy over > > ldefs-boot.el (if it's newer) sounds like a good idea to me. (And I'd > > also like if that file was regenerated more often than once a month...) > > If Eli agrees, I'm happy to update ldefs-boot.el more frequently. I see no down-sides to updating it frequently, so it's fine with me. From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 05 12:25:50 2022 Received: (at 48117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jun 2022 16:25:50 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33353 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nxt4X-0001PP-PI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Jun 2022 12:25:49 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:58550) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nxt4V-0001P9-DL for 48117@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Jun 2022 12:25:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=SL8/LoBfEUkrSRBNbUpDdxeo9Ze4uWk253tVmHwcAAk=; b=SgCKLFtVjY4fnTx4/h5x93NTFT 5bwwidr3LVNbqEcVNJmpOmyq1tja+PJy2jPTbghOyCouZY8gwIGME9eWwdMShfxxwX/pHOAaNgAeX d2otlVjt56QmbRtRYB3WIYg8XTaR0YxTwFTECK5qaQveE+HqGAc9vSBXsErO6G6ApLyM=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nxt4N-0003JS-08; Sun, 05 Jun 2022 18:25:41 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: bug#48117: 28.0.50; Update of loaddefs.el during normal build is unreliable References: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> X-Now-Playing: Exek's _Check it Out!!_: "Punishment" Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2022 18:25:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: <8335v8c7o0.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 30 Apr 2021 14:51:11 +0300") Message-ID: <87wndvyt4u.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Then compare the old loaddefs.el with the newly created one: you will > see many changes, depending on when was the last time you bootstrapped > or otherwise regenerated loaddefs.el from scratch. > [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 48117 Cc: 48117@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii writes: > Then compare the old loaddefs.el with the newly created one: you will > see many changes, depending on when was the last time you bootstrapped > or otherwise regenerated loaddefs.el from scratch. > > This happens because regeneration of the parts of loaddefs.el affected > by Lisp changes is unreliable and misses some changes, in particular > those where autoloads from some Lisp files are redirected to private > *-loaddefs.el files instead of the common loaddefs.el. This should now be fixed in Emacs 29 -- the private loaddefs files updates should be handled as well as the main one. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 05 12:25:56 2022 Received: (at control) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jun 2022 16:25:56 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33356 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nxt4e-0001Pk-0E for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Jun 2022 12:25:56 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:58564) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nxt4b-0001PI-NB for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Jun 2022 12:25:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Subject:From:To:Message-Id:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=AgXGS0oK4/nUqOswafAVRHdXpCgBPmMj3kwMRIqMK0E=; b=uAHqWi1QARYpdMVj91SlCS87ki 0D/sCrwUOEbjksbn6rn1b2csdrkogOUKmWHdnGjkq78uM+sfaaUaG1S0P8/2B3UZEulSksiRwk41+ eOuHxbXgziv9BEMi5zt06ech3rDH0aVnVlKhsp2D89sKjhMtDFY0YOKV6S66wc6kdkM4=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nxt4U-0003Jd-21 for control@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Jun 2022 18:25:48 +0200 Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2022 18:25:44 +0200 Message-Id: <87v8tfyt4n.fsf@gnus.org> To: control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Subject: control message for bug #48117 X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: close 48117 29.1 quit Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: control X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) close 48117 29.1 quit From unknown Sat Jun 21 10:40:30 2025 Received: (at fakecontrol) by fakecontrolmessage; To: internal_control@debbugs.gnu.org From: Debbugs Internal Request Subject: Internal Control Message-Id: bug archived. Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2022 11:24:05 +0000 User-Agent: Fakemail v42.6.9 # This is a fake control message. # # The action: # bug archived. thanks # This fakemail brought to you by your local debbugs # administrator