From unknown Fri Aug 15 04:06:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#47813: 28.0.50; Confusing new calling convention for define-minor-mode Resent-From: Michael Heerdegen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 01:52:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 47813 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 47813@debbugs.gnu.org Cc: Stefan Monnier X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.16185378802260 (code B ref -1); Fri, 16 Apr 2021 01:52:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Apr 2021 01:51:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39687 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXDdg-0000aO-Gl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 21:51:20 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:51062) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXDdd-0000aF-S3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Fri, 16 Apr 2021 03:51:05 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 03:51:04 +0200 Message-ID: <877dl36lpz.fsf@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:u4ji/tffhkpEGRRhDUTLPERpuUjsV9fcr+HeGQp44gZmQm7WxHU Xn/yAskiVMEVVdvetSkpb8RFk2mpSKUKj3bTj6VOTyFURuMYQB7W7t/M0r3zKRfwb3pT0Pg F02gC0xTIqO0J5yWZegQd575CKLM1x9cKyyrSpFVmbtK52hitgsm1rFF3e3bRst9lZwO4V9 1tz2zq9MpnSHDWGezu39w== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:sauq7Lh+MzI=:azUK8o5jSdGSsvNA27DrGk ZX60xF4pSxyGqJzbHk3GOaRugo+NCbNO4zCXtZEtS3qFxtO7PN9WtO+C9xd2wZ60NFnT/wnPi x7XKUYNyk/nkzk0klb3ZEtWmGHErHSegZe9S8y45KKqp2HExR2kqYv5c8iU+NQbaQnISJ5Whh SoC7ajLlGuTmgTDynIXc9GcDgyLwrECYba6b2NdQdCbAFpJeVfbhC+2h0JqwIDRFbCP58VIVm NwmNqO35GbB17rd+8RVkgaQraru515Ovxsm5kdI1IRkW/akIm5Kg5/m+Wngn0rJaTljlkAKGZ 8PSetxMP7e5sK05dAlPFdPWgDrhFE/oKQNyDLJv5IXim4ve+SqKy0yqSIvwHz6o0GCbKQOAdQ W1Yk52ncuhErqTXET8tJV0fq1YYKe10dBUfAG9KEZxn5IWb5jdmQBWYVKXgnSexUCKL3lT6JR huPVPe6ouT/C0m6/5HpK7MHyVYXTHwj4TWgM2xVfJHjJsetrePP+/EaT2PyDM8ppRH/tz/JpE +ABacBnbdb0MVhS7V/WDmdBbq6iRcPxFyqYuNFrlonVPHYAw1bZWeriS3Yb3dbBTvX1rrB2rX HpkowRC9iisaerkzDeNvMm9MNeOWBs1zaDCnBeT4vyhrIXegp0zXB7KYjT5ayC3sTyjyDBLMp 3yjdcXk4vqcqMNn2J6c/uf8MdMnZfOckTUzrlNZiVU2W5Hk+NIPG/3gwgVkRi3h5mo2u+An9W n1eceC7xeTq9xolY95Um2l0erg5Mg8izLxqtw/Fm7dHUqpVNC42zSB3NjrwqomJ/9bFwDLOB+ uZN1GErYfHqlSuQRJdnuay6HeGI2y7dW3j29nwtXlMJHgCZsuYMhQhqJSWBTmLluoRQ0+fg0x 3pfIRsbFjuNS+/84Nmfph8GslxE+RTGa9bFuFUZxKslIzghFn3wEnrJB2rdew/s4blBEkyHwR i/ddRVxNMpWBe9+smCetOYv4nPjM1hVkQFh3nDEEAZDfUzQTwdj+5SlMTxZXRm6E4yyEmRFMq NxaVFfqg3/H9s/fZrpIn2Kgyze+d5gHojaoQ2iMxWfmjrcFnvaKI6i96MZdDYr7/bItMlfbnN MJ67QI1eacsAWSqaC6Z45sIUKUiA30gxqs+sWGadPODL7msqZfsy4Jik/2a67bDjrzMRlCcsQ LBa830ghU+KPQMQBadEzo9yL4/iQACqNI/csgTJq231pkBZIPCFmpq2GuPkUYJ00eS4uvAVRl ylckFAiE6eLTQuZk8 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.14; envelope-from=michael_heerdegen@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) Hello, the new advertised calling contention for `define-minor-mode' is | (mode doc &rest body) Nothing wrong with that, but this part from the doc string: | If you provide BODY, then you must provide at least one keyword | argument. says that the convention as printed is not valid - and indeed it isn't -- e.g. this errors: (define-minor-mode test-mode "..." (if test-mode 17 23)) Is it possible to make that keyword-less case work? Else the calling convention should be made clearer in some way. TIA, Michael. In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 48, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.24, cairo version 1.16.0) of 2021-04-15 built on drachen Repository revision: ed6b86457ddf73cc2cb2df6a1cf8dab79a265a93 Repository branch: master Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12010000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux bullseye/sid From unknown Fri Aug 15 04:06:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#47813: 28.0.50; Confusing new calling convention for define-minor-mode Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 03:24:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 47813 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Michael Heerdegen Cc: 47813@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.161854339610611 (code B ref -1); Fri, 16 Apr 2021 03:24:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Apr 2021 03:23:16 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39758 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXF4d-0002l5-Oc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 23:23:15 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:59356) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXF4b-0002kw-VC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 23:23:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43118) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lXF4b-0004sZ-P5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 23:23:13 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:11967) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lXF4Z-0005q8-P8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 23:23:13 -0400 Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id CB0E1441982; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 23:23:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 0897044197B; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 23:23:09 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1618543389; bh=1Wo+U/SyCxteqAL9Id3vtv/ld0HE+pVT2gDD8fIJSIs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=ESGx1Q4u+CtfAwmGsNv99PVP5+9VnWRbveXn3akJ8BpWlClRDcdszFFJ4827oFr9V CuWBxb6D4k6KxfnhD7W0db4k7eWHR5ugdP3f1BEnz1sSWeM+EyecSekkVSsDl6hUxm mBDchKGjNIOQZBgU4PF/XJ2tOHeKVD9pavNPIHepDOP0owByleJHIWpXr7Z0Bw2rhZ FX2o3/db2WaCU7FVl3QeVuBSZ691DtuLDsGexvKUDBR+og8AqpZhWpleWH0whQ6AKD 3/vp4ormIvTYnZK9PDOIB2R+w8Yz1+Jr8IsYn2xiVn+eRB2k8TD0cDw/7SFi+7Wn99 5EW7erdHnRz0A== Received: from alfajor (104-222-126-84.cpe.teksavvy.com [104.222.126.84]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 82FA31202AD; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 23:23:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <877dl36lpz.fsf@web.de> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 23:23:07 -0400 In-Reply-To: <877dl36lpz.fsf@web.de> (Michael Heerdegen's message of "Fri, 16 Apr 2021 03:51:04 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.109 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > says that the convention as printed is not valid - and indeed it > isn't -- e.g. this errors: > > (define-minor-mode test-mode "..." (if test-mode 17 23)) > > Is it possible to make that keyword-less case work? It's hard to do it as long as there is code out there that uses the old convention where the first element of "body" is actually interpreted as the `lighter` argument. That's why I introduced the warning and changed the arglist: I realized that even though I think the old convention is inconvenient and confusing, it seems that a lot of code (even brand new code) follows the new rather than the old convention, so we need to be more proactive to get people to abandon the old convention so we can at some point in the future accept code like the one above. Stefan From unknown Fri Aug 15 04:06:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#47813: 28.0.50; Confusing new calling convention for define-minor-mode Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 03:28:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 47813 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Michael Heerdegen Cc: 47813@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.161854364710977 (code B ref -1); Fri, 16 Apr 2021 03:28:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Apr 2021 03:27:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39763 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXF8h-0002qz-B9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 23:27:27 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:59984) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXF8f-0002qr-It for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 23:27:25 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43656) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lXF8f-0005Pw-Ba for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 23:27:25 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:48838) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lXF8d-00085J-96 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 23:27:24 -0400 Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 77B29100216; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 23:27:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 8A2351000F4; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 23:27:20 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1618543640; bh=NuVdbvvdW6dsE23ObVzuw9YfDKhmsrLZF9jrWNZ2Sok=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=RQR9nMCo8vj4fm2PwngkFjT+NX+CxySdph5yVr2LNpj9nqNVsw2/FYqduC4oqFfmO U/T3rbzDXNM7ZVO6bOXTmbPd3r+rRVt0KyTxIa0aOVhMupqxGiG/aOhdVGJrAmbcJu IUsJ2CKrQpNmy6xyAi/ykPmLwlMWRuNsM02cLOXOfikpw8hcc7XrQZaKjWKDn1pDmQ DkXe2+Ibzk/CMi1bpQZ1cBoH5ST6BdsccqwSP/V6K8/pwS7pqo/Wm0iho7DECf0nUX xCGLP9gSiFuQqTPZaNwLMy8CVJn+TyJuQ6mkvs0K8LLqdqfXoQYSwVTfkY8XrOd329 xS1QdnmwaVXMA== Received: from alfajor (104-222-126-84.cpe.teksavvy.com [104.222.126.84]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1A2241201B0; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 23:27:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <877dl36lpz.fsf@web.de> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 23:27:19 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Thu, 15 Apr 2021 23:23:07 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.018 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > confusing, it seems that a lot of code (even brand new code) follows the > new rather than the old convention, so we need to be more proactive to ^^^ ^^^ \\ // ================ Sorry got them messed up. Stefan From unknown Fri Aug 15 04:06:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#47813: 28.0.50; Confusing new calling convention for define-minor-mode Resent-From: Michael Heerdegen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 04:28:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 47813 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 47813@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.161854722624558 (code B ref -1); Fri, 16 Apr 2021 04:28:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Apr 2021 04:27:06 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39818 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXG4P-0006O2-SQ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 00:27:06 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:50378) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXG4L-0006Nf-I3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Fri, 16 Apr 2021 06:26:54 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen References: <877dl36lpz.fsf@web.de> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 06:26:53 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Thu, 15 Apr 2021 23:23:07 -0400") Message-ID: <87lf9isvle.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:c5ifqo3yQOUEoasqt4vzp/j37oa0hJQOxHg4b83p10p9iLw5WtY qSFKmue7LFFuZpxiONA/5ODv0Av/lBxgwy6SPBd7N8uqUGYljL02qb8C4DbCkFAvNotJ5c3 10r9WlUzwDs8kLsC/brIOkf4I759kOi/8Gb0I5ZvnaXdPgXI2UZjbfqdRangdRGKK06VS/e l5VRKqVwlAzt03g0u15Mg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:/SChHEvI/CU=:mbfkTqSNE9aCD1zbpbNP2x AxX+/KYPjwJg+4clIAA1C/p3nQQKytntVoWtS2mH+9Thp+clK6ysRFsPYUd8hKLAAoEOG2b0c WH5SzIjJwFNSMAYMnISIw1utw9WCqt2UNq2gX/iENYyn8LWfvdnlC8LpltGi3Uz/epXpx/SWU 4p1UuSUmIvLgT9ttwahS9ODfAoz05RmB28fCqM8NrSQN1YdzLSxtTM3Dwj/ZBOw1v5FaH3Ufj fL3eN00+Wfue2iYeDmBxusbTA5f2zC2MVV2SRToAXbPKW3JOBZBO8FBBauLY2dgbVs1s6L+Op Diq+Kqnj790XZB7Fu3vn95PFMvtMdCT07FVz4mTd4KfriHyXo0JoQNdKogq8xm7DbRdpPUSGO xyAYpKcN6tQg8gWJNKGiraqHoRVQNOwImCVZYNxd+2yas3e/63WJTYNGQp/ekZn1++f7kW6Lg 8B5POH863TG1yhXJiyRoZ+dQjxGP1fYvfCdSJXCJQkT21EtcXN2eOmog89xJu1xqebRrc+nEi ZPOn2BmLlxZSmwe4pdNESTged24ii4yrgEkddWFWphFJPBqcGAqhYaIwUXRT/oiAlAjHWDgKf YuEgxw1FMdo78ef7+s+q5bhnIwiwi3X9QtxS8z71wrUrX2yU4mmfHpA2v1CuVO+DutwS3J56E 6hVyBAGbl5nevvU3he9jOEX1LX77U5PLNPd+yS+RgjdPWjh0JsbeI+yl2w5sAuG3w7rMzB+fg 3Q8pWXU7Ds0EulrnXbzJGuR4ga8eT0nUuCU6GJvNf4jQ2tqNr5dARefI3aXeinciLpGLYaiUz ybo5J1pyw0KQEU9AZQvbj97ukpKW0BltClIcPAkHIIknH4FBfKunyT9upxrMKSF4D/vUKVYfg XNwi0Xwt/5kc0GnkqsIwI6S4c9Nwf+2Abek/ktSQEkJbQQ1/b7Edlm3ZV0z0QV58KSiRbFr9t CivHio9qj+glYM7x/G+8nGVyJBwR6EhXqNS2W0Rb3SLSfMwIsVofuvFdour5Kt8Dl8KvBK4Rj BBi6Kr5nFchdlsmKXpTQ0SN2wKmwpxe3v09mgRwDt/RyigPvmNEgsRIoxvPIl3K26BqtrbOHx QAOGI68kLTyWkQ3P4aWSGAApc6H3pAV6VY2az+KVh/vxOTFtQ7E5ZRAfU10pBrDJ3Jua0jeL1 pBn25AplnjCmg4gF/ZMeoCats5NhRAbswB1QwYQ1V+Gy+DkUMWe1uyaloWeYqlqDsTb8lVx7x tdKsM6Gh/roLjmyi9 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.14; envelope-from=michael_heerdegen@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) Stefan Monnier writes: > That's why I introduced the warning and changed the arglist: I realized > that even though I think the old convention is inconvenient and > confusing, it seems that a lot of code (even brand new code) follows the > old rather than the new convention, so we need to be more proactive to > get people to abandon the old convention so we can at some point in the > future accept code like the one above. Ok. My problem was: When compiling my init file (I have a lot of personal, quite trivial, minor modes) I got 20 warnings, a whole bulk, then I did what the warnings said and deleted all those nil's, and then everything was broken. It's now hard to find out how to get your code correct and warning free at all. Can we do something better to help people find the correct solution? Regards, Michael. From unknown Fri Aug 15 04:06:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#47813: 28.0.50; Confusing new calling convention for define-minor-mode Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 12:45:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 47813 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Michael Heerdegen Cc: 47813@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.161857704424608 (code B ref -1); Fri, 16 Apr 2021 12:45:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Apr 2021 12:44:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40238 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXNpI-0006OO-Bw for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 08:44:04 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:59536) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXNpD-0006OD-Gf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 08:43:59 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51130) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lXNpD-0007EF-5m for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 08:43:55 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:3782) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lXNpB-00028Q-4a for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 08:43:54 -0400 Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id A260E100201; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 08:43:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 14D9B1000C9; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 08:43:50 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1618577030; bh=5k/T0c6csyemL9OFqqicrjHSQzxwrrh19SYDzlcIjWk=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=guPhj8bRDdfRat1QvaMZUcvT4X+5SNZv7qrpPd6HKc479wW3UacyVEkGEOlADf9X3 BDL6ft+xx6Ab2bmxLkVd0pEpYCyM+j8tTcJ0E7l3IWTy+0DiOg2PFziBZdifxNFGSU pbgg7A/IU8uDc/VXOdMt5pf06MJvEKO/n4PMwW3oG2UmE1YVdyfun5uRKRv9sgK+L7 UyOCXieq2ZVh3OOKEQBFBxgA/KpLxQsB/c52iUGCNi5QiAWUnyHv+6INqXWQEH8v6U NxwLp76g4n/yZQB4OwOfVrpBA3Qvtoinbe7uT7xAwBcyd2S1PWC+DnDUSlPu8BH9AS w57o1nru82S+A== Received: from alfajor (104-222-126-84.cpe.teksavvy.com [104.222.126.84]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E110F12023C; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 08:43:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <877dl36lpz.fsf@web.de> <87lf9isvle.fsf@web.de> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 08:43:48 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87lf9isvle.fsf@web.de> (Michael Heerdegen's message of "Fri, 16 Apr 2021 06:26:53 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.017 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) >> That's why I introduced the warning and changed the arglist: I realized >> that even though I think the old convention is inconvenient and >> confusing, it seems that a lot of code (even brand new code) follows the >> old rather than the new convention, so we need to be more proactive to >> get people to abandon the old convention so we can at some point in the >> future accept code like the one above. > My problem was: When compiling my init file (I have a lot of personal, > quite trivial, minor modes) I got 20 warnings, a whole bulk, then I did > what the warnings said and deleted all those nil's, and then everything > was broken. Hmm... the warning don't exactly say to delete those three elements, so I think it would help to understand how you got from "saw the warning" to "deleted all those nil's": that's the probably where we need to improve the doc. Another point is: after deleting those nil's, presumably you still got the warning (because there still wasn't any keyword arg at the head), so you should hopefully have seen that warning which would have helped understand why "everything was broken". > It's now hard to find out how to get your code correct and warning free > at all. Can we do something better to help people find the correct > solution? I hope we can. Stefan From unknown Fri Aug 15 04:06:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#47813: 28.0.50; Confusing new calling convention for define-minor-mode Resent-From: Michael Heerdegen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 23:54:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 47813 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 47813@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.16186172199732 (code B ref -1); Fri, 16 Apr 2021 23:54:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Apr 2021 23:53:39 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41950 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXYHK-0002Wu-3t for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 19:53:38 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:53282) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXYHJ-0002Wm-1H for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Sat, 17 Apr 2021 01:53:29 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen References: <877dl36lpz.fsf@web.de> <87lf9isvle.fsf@web.de> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 01:53:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 16 Apr 2021 08:43:48 -0400") Message-ID: <877dl17pmv.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:IAVCwg2eFqrMVmI/6hrOskEE2MQd+HsSCNJnP7WOsaHxZxhT+tJ JwrDKl/5LIclJ4dGZxu2+IbgMOJFXoZk/tvBlC6hzstWhyVtDTZyNDmGlLB8u8LTb+PcPI9 rHh+CW0fwVkokU4U4sjF3IJCLNbNq1NTrkUtlPOBYR5Q0DcRT7m1d32AWeZoqqCRRNfyQYr 56V2yt2TxpuQUsHecCQVw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:+SHzm/xXRwk=:s9zJ1+k2Wa7G2l52wzVh3z hM2b2L2LYsW8qW8NEXLk6srdsYRZCjD2IN0qACwWuD6dlqWPD08yr1R0VyPHQK6EbdVMtz5Fo T5KSwJAsvgagDzAdS7pKDXMuFz0tK2ZaAOzGVN+8Q7AkuS6Uv4k0X7R+iL7yeeD+uw620uzDe kgsBO0SlnQg+ONaTyBZwj9MJ+fER0T8rjOSYJn2mho5wWf31z+uEPfqJEGnk7AO7xvq+/L+4s iIXevkCLU10E5unPXvAyq6+hgmxRlCl4wKLy98G4IvifWC7TZhqMQ/AOOvO1tvDKBwa49t7vd jT8o1FRlHgHikkmqNCAmcgPmVQAthgePZfUXilIOZPzsbAEw+9x6TJ2LCqd32E366Enej5j2H D0BpmC/gZHSODDTy7lUOucAvjyfXD7R6rJGS/xfXN7KbTnv0hfWXqUwR+/YaDaFt1DG2myoLw ER/Qy5/DtWUhEU+1VnnYNgwcO46npGwlhdUncGNlYqQ74XwDkmnd8xEMw8L7SpVWByy6DbBjI 09RZjnGoLyx3ru4YU27pobDrDa7Xx0pCkUGa2W0L5D7EPgT9Whp4Dud50/XkK+toyEvbDihPW mo5Ftfp4+y3RkXVfgCozZoPJ7VmITe4qcsm9ecgNkd4WpljZ7LXOGAcncvf8Wn/Jz0xhWwXdm /np6Nk+TmrqvR+9XQIhIzeZG6C7GxcR68ep8wNJP/CgT4+q5ENu9FQfH3BypZYnvLcJlKGatE FLc2t9elyPUAdJFBGu+97izI+eIntjpVkJ6ukLSVnioTwKIXq0crx7wkmELycs6e4X+aVWsov LnRefa9VqxLxro4Yd6Ac9+ZQ8H3ZKmNqOYCNobHM/Ig7Y0aJG3pPLfoI7SCzEx2Rnji48SU4I p7FMNzPKuWDfs/7zLjCM3L6uElWGeUpB7r4cmC+Wp5m/EqL2l/QKP5ne+hGlsojq3d9Veq8zU OGxRotj5w424ZIiQ7AqDMUACfgqXYR+ipU8UWMSFHqljcpntDPT4SwairXbBFoN+fk+0dBf5I c/NUN5iP3wLFPkayV7I8IiZy0oOrDuulFIh5B2AfXVEIIhhWVN5G0PuIkTnFURl2p8me2hlsj fdzuDOpSHjmSLmOhtZ53Aza+x8ehATxnoZ1exJKkLdaIy8oYuLtW7uPVZ6SJ1ac/E+6cD2xGb VKW3r8AMzGQmtb1htulKCSu50OU7Wk7D+76ZSGmSG6ua38VhOM4FiKonaBHRcpy25SgF6fpoK CnpKKglpbzMUejbVN Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.4; envelope-from=michael_heerdegen@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) Stefan Monnier writes: > Hmm... the warning don't exactly say to delete those three elements, so > I think it would help to understand how you got from "saw the warning" > to "deleted all those nil's": that's the probably where we need to > improve the doc. What is currently the correct syntax if you can't provide any keywords because your definition only has a body to specify? That was the only case that caused the problems, and I only fixed it by specifying :group 'micha (the group micha, German short form of "Michael", already exists to quite other byte compiler warnings, and is otherwise redundant). So that was what Emacs presented to me: a calling convention that told to use (mode doc &rest body) which I did, and OTOH a non-decreasing number of warnings to use keywords please , but I have none to specify, so ... what? Regards, Michael. From unknown Fri Aug 15 04:06:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#47813: 28.0.50; Confusing new calling convention for define-minor-mode Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 00:45:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 47813 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Michael Heerdegen Cc: 47813@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.161862028014378 (code B ref -1); Sat, 17 Apr 2021 00:45:01 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Apr 2021 00:44:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41986 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXZ4e-0003jm-Dh for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 20:44:40 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:36754) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXZ4Z-0003jZ-UN for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 20:44:35 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47350) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lXZ4Z-0006vV-Jv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 20:44:31 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:21169) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lXZ4W-0007lO-PN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 20:44:30 -0400 Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 5EF9E441069; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 20:44:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id D90BD441060; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 20:44:25 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1618620265; bh=RiDVEiJOS5otUiaZcTUHiPCVq8XnNHIFZZpzD35AV6w=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=JJe+cdQ01U14XPKdqholH6IB6lCqfTz5Cfxani+LfNHi3LjwnIR+xjk3ovtYKZFp7 KFGP3OkEBbYg9y5Cg9Ghlcp9H/TSmCeffwL7/19pgmAww9qi6x/1y9mmleNRqHm3LM GW7aHzsv9MgvplJQAgMn2Sc47qEW+GG/KYDcmtkBs4N+iXh0A0+eXx4sGQhwGrrYpp LoOWAPFrym4S9lNYGwqj017oFGU51jyxkfthNb+6HG2/mNaQVrH0tyYupgCSjbLogN FCE78gNzBJT8eYz1p1A/UHXSgL8JUGOUbASdlEi762ylyF3FrvzIe5dhN6rvooXjNj Cqe5thczZHyKQ== Received: from alfajor (104-222-126-84.cpe.teksavvy.com [104.222.126.84]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 99B46120273; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 20:44:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <877dl36lpz.fsf@web.de> <87lf9isvle.fsf@web.de> <877dl17pmv.fsf@web.de> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 20:44:24 -0400 In-Reply-To: <877dl17pmv.fsf@web.de> (Michael Heerdegen's message of "Sat, 17 Apr 2021 01:53:28 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.105 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) >> Hmm... the warning don't exactly say to delete those three elements, so >> I think it would help to understand how you got from "saw the warning" >> to "deleted all those nil's": that's the probably where we need to >> improve the doc. > > What is currently the correct syntax if you can't provide any keywords > because your definition only has a body to specify? The three args of the old convention correspond to (by order of appearance): `:init-value`, `lighter`, `:keymap`. So in the patch I installed into `master` I used `:lighter nil` to replace three `nil`s (since `:init-value` and `:keymap` should only be used in exceptional circumstances, IMO). > So that was what Emacs presented to me: a calling convention that told > to use (mode doc &rest body) which I did, and OTOH a non-decreasing > number of warnings to use keywords please , but I have none to specify, > so ... what? Yes, I understand the problem, but I'm not sure how best to address it. Do you have some suggestion for what could have helped you? Stefan From unknown Fri Aug 15 04:06:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#47813: 28.0.50; Confusing new calling convention for define-minor-mode Resent-From: Michael Heerdegen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 02:30:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 47813 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: 47813@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.161862654223650 (code B ref -1); Sat, 17 Apr 2021 02:30:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Apr 2021 02:29:02 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42004 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXahf-000694-0d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 22:29:02 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:58624) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXaha-00068t-DI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; 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Sat, 17 Apr 2021 04:28:45 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen References: <877dl36lpz.fsf@web.de> <87lf9isvle.fsf@web.de> <877dl17pmv.fsf@web.de> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 04:28:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 16 Apr 2021 20:44:24 -0400") Message-ID: <8735vp7ig3.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:UdzcPAAi0hn+3phEGlD2Z+X2l6V95RKCCBIZN9JzOYdKfOwdjTQ 5UY0ll8eUNXERNm6ouwQpOo2ShJtgEJbDxkZazU1x0y81X1A1NBJgt57Y5/SMwGyg7kIurB Tff9cu/jOwz+9Eqr0DRm3DQNtuDFJ32aAkiMulFclUP+yh//9Ow0+qtroYY2gWmQKudtg7u ZlKiN+WVZ+TSxgXT7vUGg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:tc4Zn9a1Mlw=:x2cow9AmigB3uKupnkL2QC E+0k5A70jKqvjyDDErun+nbLq5vVzlzee5CJR2LucBFxvB+DJ9RUMFxVYLGBwbEo1UR5QHkaY ol9Ue4zEK5kgjdaPNFy7aplt4DItyvCL/spoJdvbXuWshnC5t1VXzQ+POCYaPn38drS4dh74Q qiXAf6NBC9Kl7fVnHKn48fVuI/glUfbqe7gFiefG6UmfS0rAYX9rLDlJvUfWknk/c8+Y5rosN WMNi4pBbEksi7rv7dGmlF5XAw/pdLpcAzbTKJGoEny89GJNKN9ADvkFV8itnY4OqrIpvph0k8 iddM9aKNLYg2VPS1gUFLY2q8XrUStJbyF32sLv3/Hmkzv4WDLg24OKk0mE1oQ2F58tcF0u0yv iHqugFxKHT1RjDkPSMn2quqHTrtvXfYNNjl+b4kyrssI6hD9BEzfaQn9ziKpYxxgVO9FtqOMc fkSMIzqDwM67c2j5r8AKidHeize1kKV4726Ml2cPx5bLX4bEGJeqo1mMptYqrFIvAhQFKFdnI IF4qdEcAAl1rZ8YCoKtIkreLWeagnxVm+eQ5Acms/ArVwPQD6w8Lq0L8kqwXGUGzrKvpzkN12 fRZ29dKiaRWPr8VK6d86dFCYGuU9Kt8aE5KuUlvey01zbfaUGIqD31m22fBw/2Uq7bI8Zt9Q0 A7EUQzwN933EKpBx8rmuNyWXjUfdp2O7vqTUlSK+v3PWOYq2/y0HOCNGe9axWX9PfRH5lub8e d5ZCqp0FSfsyiD9NK53QtcsDpsuflWcseCN9H4/bjZtUY/ETxgX3eH7lXA5uBvMCWQVjpTI0E h/TyhXmYXv8HhV+1M9JdgW/ghfNcP31q1aiyHCaZuL5Rqmlw9Q+wbAaC/bzZeAmo8rO478tq3 JV2mHV2dVB7xo96HljcgCsiLA6vMK7b+JEtHEGqIehS59eXM8GxYynDz7azmbxRZ4Z5ZsdOBB ccIOTspeQ9qWwot8rQMox0OYNwPCpWr0DbpatFIk0qRG/hp79Muz75wS1n1ZBw6UZNp3+SaoQ sya1abiC7khsey/FEqdS/LqVVEg9LxlPMPV+uwYJ/+q729PggE+SASslzfV5Rok1rpxhEik4U QS3Is7pJuDhj/NiKR1efKxcbWpAPKMGDomYQQYuR4I6ZGD9i1Wj8Ew7Yuc+3aWUF9a4Lr3tSa SOosCPd/2Xtxz257Ed512jV9FF4RQmpeDI8EQIa24nn2015pGTKcHm5gA8O13hNxKRGjkwWz1 Hv6gH6Z3LhQ3BOMJa Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.14; envelope-from=michael_heerdegen@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) Stefan Monnier writes: > Yes, I understand the problem, but I'm not sure how best to address > it. Do you have some suggestion for what could have helped you? There should be some indication, somewhere, that zero keywords are currently not allowed. In my case, eldoc could have been such a source of information, by letting showing something like (mode doc keyword1 val1 [keyword val ...] &rest body) You could also make this warning: "Use keywords rather than deprecated positional arguments to `define-minor-mode'" - or at least the docstring of `define-minor-mode' - tell that if no keywords can be provided one can use "e.g. :lighter nil" to get rid of the warnings (and maybe that this will probably not be necessary any more in the future). Apart from that, we could allow an explicit :body keyword, though that would have been most helpful before your change, and once the sources of examples of the old calling convention are gone, it would get completely redundant, so I guess that is not a good proposal. Thanks, Michael. From unknown Fri Aug 15 04:06:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#47813: 28.0.50; Confusing new calling convention for define-minor-mode Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 03:44:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 47813 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Michael Heerdegen Cc: 47813@debbugs.gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.161863098431031 (code B ref -1); Sat, 17 Apr 2021 03:44:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Apr 2021 03:43:04 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42020 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXbrM-00084R-0l for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 23:43:04 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:43050) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXbrH-00083x-17 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 23:43:02 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41730) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lXbrG-00063J-PA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 23:42:58 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:59313) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lXbrE-0007wM-Vg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 23:42:58 -0400 Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 34DE110020E; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 23:42:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 64DE21000CF; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 23:42:54 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1618630974; bh=NCfVdBOam0UD6NMtADMSOONTE3uYaMmGC2Q/rdMG324=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=TfvLYSsa/kmGV8XZQN647bKbdEQZ6heY6sms5gys0mF+tgJ4l4xlxM7bv9+as2fWN jv0/h0o2NuQ60pOwQ3trab9LsDUSknCOEeWWFpc+jg0l4GwwnLVs7SZY020sgpnMLK 6FEVhE0Ln5NPX1ui2yFxqYKgfxc5crMTJaevpUcUPRAQOik3kRdlBmRNUUPFJEEhu8 7acNXeFjqemeeXNjFHnXhZiFUSClaKOy7M/jCxRWLAKe6m6jp1W4ySqBgZSF9rS2P8 n19hG3WPvqhVoS4tCV+dsPf6CdfJ17/a0nMbqaRdq3S2yLkDOMBQv4USbnqSC//0qg ALimwglVm/4Lw== Received: from alfajor (104-222-126-84.cpe.teksavvy.com [104.222.126.84]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 32A55120308; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 23:42:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <877dl36lpz.fsf@web.de> <87lf9isvle.fsf@web.de> <877dl17pmv.fsf@web.de> <8735vp7ig3.fsf@web.de> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 23:42:53 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8735vp7ig3.fsf@web.de> (Michael Heerdegen's message of "Sat, 17 Apr 2021 04:28:44 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.020 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > In my case, eldoc could have been such a source of information, by > letting showing something like > > (mode doc keyword1 val1 [keyword val ...] &rest body) I went with (mode doc [keyword val ...] &rest body) since it's allowed to have no keywords (if body is empty). > - or at least the docstring of `define-minor-mode' - tell that if no > keywords can be provided one can use "e.g. :lighter nil" to get rid of > the warnings (and maybe that this will probably not be necessary any > more in the future). I added a mention of `:lighter nil`. Stefan From unknown Fri Aug 15 04:06:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#47813: 28.0.50; Confusing new calling convention for define-minor-mode Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 11:50:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 47813 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: Michael Heerdegen , 47813@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 47813-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B47813.161866016421769 (code B ref 47813); Sat, 17 Apr 2021 11:50:01 +0000 Received: (at 47813) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Apr 2021 11:49:24 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42410 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXjS0-0005f3-0r for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 07:49:24 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:48808) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXjRy-0005er-Pv for 47813@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 07:49:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=iDg46tw3BEQSmLCkFLZiKC8cn8KnjoHKPYfPBitvkKM=; b=mJetTtD8T11NWafIQN5JeGlqdT MoSZBsfErtzzfER8IP9jXduuVnO6XDq0VwkKUZ4ErmebZAMIiuJR/usV3BL1Amp0r3h0FTaa0I756 NVAR8+jMqyNtxY7OpxjbgVWO0xFfHyBglHmr2MSxKTQ0MrUpsxBoCBK3XrjmHSamI9R4=; Received: from cm-84.212.220.105.getinternet.no ([84.212.220.105] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lXjRp-0002q1-Jk; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 13:49:16 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen References: <877dl36lpz.fsf@web.de> <87lf9isvle.fsf@web.de> <877dl17pmv.fsf@web.de> <8735vp7ig3.fsf@web.de> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEXjza7QuqCogWD/ //+BhT4TAAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+UEEQsrM1KNxTUAAAGoSURBVCjPLVFNi9swEB0t 9kJvCcSB7LmU9l/IsAm0Jwn0RO1bIQm1f8eS8zZUhua0Kbax5ld2pO2A7XnWvA9JRHuqCkWPRhlH eKZV8aGiKpiCXFXWzkDVAZqg96pU2ihQRQ2l0vKoE61Tr/LLkk1/qwy8KJMI5NmGQELPvRKfQj4Z iV5TpOaBmeuJhrXOIJ5rR77OMxVtZCyUrwkUmfMH4b3PAnCkTHYFbesfh1dTSrwHAXBl78qkGCg8 fa/6YJE5QFf2k0HqyOJs+2iM2EhQzOi5hlYyajyHnltgb2Tj236SlEBdg1rfJjC4lbpT5zkVIqnu HbR8WJKPH2bmR74ctfpJCFMCg8SNku2t50u8CifQo1jy3/EaNQWqTi334/gpajURTrj55bhd0tiu w22Inw+LE+kvDQaOnVqMrDSo2lv8qkYjHGtw4/mbnbTcAoxreb4YAWmzo+fh+vKWQRMVhunlrtVA eOLS+tF5XQfCmW98Xo61Vr9oB56DX/7fHOQwpJ5XctYB0dtm4HbuQEXl7R2DP7W/11QCuwiPI/SG XDAfsXNkrd78A4oupznw7ZKaAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIxLTA0LTE3VDExOjQzOjUx KzAwOjAwfWPJRAAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMS0wNC0xN1QxMTo0Mzo1MSswMDowMAw+ cfgAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Yukihiro Takahashi's _Neuromantic_: "New (Red) Roses" Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 13:49:13 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 16 Apr 2021 23:42:53 -0400") Message-ID: <87im4lqgg6.fsf@gnus.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Monnier writes: > I went with > > (mode doc [keyword val ...] &rest body) > > since it's allowed to have no keywords (if body is empty). It still kinda looks like the keywords are optional, even if you have a body. What about: Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Monnier writes: > I went with > > (mode doc [keyword val ...] &rest body) > > since it's allowed to have no keywords (if body is empty). It still kinda looks like the keywords are optional, even if you have a body. What about: (mode doc [keyword val ... &rest body]) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no From unknown Fri Aug 15 04:06:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#47813: 28.0.50; Confusing new calling convention for define-minor-mode Resent-From: Stefan Monnier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 13:58:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 47813 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Cc: Michael Heerdegen , 47813@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 47813-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B47813.16186678473390 (code B ref 47813); Sat, 17 Apr 2021 13:58:01 +0000 Received: (at 47813) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Apr 2021 13:57:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44064 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXlRu-0000sc-Mu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 09:57:26 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:19292) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXlRt-0000sP-8D for 47813@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 09:57:25 -0400 Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id E191A10022E; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 09:57:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 1811B1000C9; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 09:57:18 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1618667838; bh=j3yX8cv/jQoPwBoJK1P0RjX5L7XjBfEmFe+ox9ev++Q=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=fG1pX/Toy4qd65OrJZtNSt0GlfTXEOx8Feui4u1k5hcc4t6IVioAzhrLaBwacfK5N dX7jEA6W0tosIVURGf4A4MYZfqKdufL4Y5oknwH/WPVmi4lzZVzVChRuH8MVU3og16 qUwLFhy4XeqzyLPZ8XDRB4apOSGKHQXCErTuychCAcOmNdh+Ttjk+tyRqzN6wVeI/b jcmovhlbfP3g453jXCR/ZUozqJj6P6rj6d5UfcDfqsYOmOXw6Lz6OiLcdEDHe8a4GO yTYSGogu2wYlxovf8TtNN1bym1hhevQp4yYyqzjBZavaTqEtAb8BrTONSMZ75N+zMr SO8iD2LeXYTTw== Received: from alfajor (104-222-126-84.cpe.teksavvy.com [104.222.126.84]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D275C120264; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 09:57:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier Message-ID: References: <877dl36lpz.fsf@web.de> <87lf9isvle.fsf@web.de> <877dl17pmv.fsf@web.de> <8735vp7ig3.fsf@web.de> <87im4lqgg6.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 09:57:15 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87im4lqgg6.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Sat, 17 Apr 2021 13:49:13 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.019 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Lars Ingebrigtsen [2021-04-17 13:49:13] wrote: > Stefan Monnier writes: >> I went with >> >> (mode doc [keyword val ...] &rest body) >> >> since it's allowed to have no keywords (if body is empty). > > It still kinda looks like the keywords are optional, even if you have a > body. What about: > > (mode doc [keyword val ... &rest body]) Done, thanks, Stefan From unknown Fri Aug 15 04:06:33 2025 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Subject: bug#47813: 28.0.50; Confusing new calling convention for define-minor-mode Resent-From: Michael Heerdegen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 23:22:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 47813 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Stefan Monnier Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 47813@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 47813-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B47813.16187016908485 (code B ref 47813); Sat, 17 Apr 2021 23:22:02 +0000 Received: (at 47813) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Apr 2021 23:21:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44899 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXuFl-0002Cn-RF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 19:21:30 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([217.72.192.78]:43681) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXuFj-0002CT-TI for 47813@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 19:21:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1618701676; bh=nVge4B9AO9e2F4hiq/rVwSyUY91LYE+E6TA4qxOmz7w=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=f4fjdE56mQgU7DMT7VPgr3ZuKi7FvA6glSdUoS+sfMPYU6ry49rQsb0PUJ9Pgq04+ vYMXJ9PPQtaY0ofzmDdPLXY+dhP8vyo2tO6l9YdVdgABS7IgPjXn+VYqu93UoXgtYJ DyhHpLILohZJ0aWqMCTTLdcbO0U0ScQnccNv47Hc= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from drachen.dragon ([88.67.96.191]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb106 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MaHSp-1l3qEj0oi5-00WAje; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 01:21:16 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen References: <877dl36lpz.fsf@web.de> <87lf9isvle.fsf@web.de> <877dl17pmv.fsf@web.de> <8735vp7ig3.fsf@web.de> <87im4lqgg6.fsf@gnus.org> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2021 01:21:13 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sat, 17 Apr 2021 09:57:15 -0400") Message-ID: <87sg3oa45y.fsf@web.de> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:CBV2HmMluPpD+4Lh8xhKqmxNiDt4RGWIz09SMtebSYPnCT96iCr Pe/IWbQS99Ojg5a4lF3OuX1kz+Mah7JMQTWPnS+feJsYtAxC30aVnEDENFz4pTmSf/qtLVr ohwjp6K2nYO4ddBbOmNkIxdDGW12yT/wIBDX4T7q05z71sldNP/Dg+kiQc65Yp4oKbujdg2 jiJPke8UawvtYfillcQKg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:WS84PTbqTYE=:OXsj0EqjmmE+hcZ9QZ/+al YZ2tAXIWx57eAPEGL2Mz7Y36plqKuN2zYIGOodChcR01ZzOqES7CQJUD8IBheiA2VWMf5YwlY BIfSj5jkH2dzP1VseHDN+RmgpJ42MuB6/1mW1yl2sFVqY1i46nNcOZ9eZ2SjAOBeZbZosIeeC PsRWJFQrdEFrjUUGHa0bj171l994ryDR8zM3Ji8pYHnZgakQsKs8TiHnQxo8PucVNRDwTqAjM yop08DLGwE182qoCeKxSzjRNhF/rnFhqT4rL8WS/ZeZcBss5mTKxcV6BEF4sR3ca/C8QChf3s 31PAZEzxYw3skUATUdxbLnJCHZkRVt4mE/F87DJ+/jYTFFImdqRpLPTM25pGu+wVUpJtDRHOY FteOXq8jGs24UBe60yNMtMn7TDbOtK491Dg41Xk6md7k+SUfhb9yOTlE7ixWqh1pazCoEaFLl 37C9An4/GSlOhPqLVDgjutIcYbwltgvYc6QlOHT7ENnRjGtFIYTdvZ4o9yYZw7MLF9vUOISGv s2ia3PreGgUVjTXuUuZW3aosBaed8tpdq9kLy1mrOCbysE63xMr9/aASKRfJX57LVt8ipVMZV mi6Y5iH+rA3j8MM1kYMsJoGNDndbzhoJ4euO7AXARr1q9aOdWJGTATfjDvlKQZwcT1c7Yz28b FWqP2CS905vzIDovmx6VntZjZqHywVecXekKweBTkqilsXqd0QCDVi25jRA5m/CHcZPp5jEfV psJW/xC54FcYO+nUb2B83wAa18lLIggnWh5DF/nMjk3Het3DYZ8nqA9IpKFAS2JDV5variBb9 Ju99NDNL23kYJOfFpx000KNzzreiQ9LHk6sUvzgKzrCRHzwHHpm7C0Xdoy3e3ntgyKBPJt8HB yR+nzByF4BK58MgqQ+iBraE5CUjmwSLPtId81KXqVMJLQuOP7l/Mrnii0wK5MDOHYmQIqHS5y UcgAA0ow6uZ03i1ZRr6NpgoVvrcJjhhaTZVcU45QcV0pVNbsyVcIE31wM7ngxT9SUcTwhKJnx nmNwhmmHc47KRKOAU/CG9ksQfdRk86E8z0R0x8P6fFxkwJLkuBjX00+wEgF2ayMInq7xDGvak 9MQiKWeguF/lxZ67uDojXIqubDENQQCXTY72PF9lPwRQyAYKE8pXVMOFyrcqqElzZrYCtYPad //+pGJ5RDHy1vA1vf/k5BQfLnAs1o1Gvzhe9gKuXChkPj7Jp49kCdnDetJAkpJwORZMTDxjMc Qvi8VDvMoDN6yBkTi X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Stefan Monnier writes: > Done, thanks, I am happy with all the changes. If nobody else has anything to contribute, you might close this report. Thanks, Michael. From unknown Fri Aug 15 04:06:33 2025 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org From: help-debbugs@gnu.org (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Michael Heerdegen Subject: bug#47813: closed (Re: bug#47813: 28.0.50; Confusing new calling convention for define-minor-mode) Message-ID: References: <877dl36lpz.fsf@web.de> X-Gnu-PR-Message: they-closed 47813 X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs Reply-To: 47813@debbugs.gnu.org Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2021 03:57:01 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1618718221-851-1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1618718221-851-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Your bug report #47813: 28.0.50; Confusing new calling convention for define-minor-mode which was filed against the emacs package, has been closed. The explanation is attached below, along with your original report. If you require more details, please reply to 47813@debbugs.gnu.org. --=20 47813: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D47813 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@gnu.org with problems ------------=_1618718221-851-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at 47813-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Apr 2021 03:56:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45028 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXyXq-0000Cw-5U for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 23:56:26 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:63591) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXyXo-0000Cj-W8 for 47813-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 23:56:25 -0400 Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 390B680967; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 23:56:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id C9F468055F; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 23:56:17 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1618718177; bh=lLyYOLs8HDINYzAr0hke2evu18iBV7dXRKU6lsMAo5k=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=H9ipfyYBDilUHdm4lEUF4q5BnLRm/xKagkg+5mEihCKo2BjiZj9N57Ww0r2Tq9gGD aHrZyUzPGK21IT4Fw0kRrUtIXSW0uRJSMLWAUHWiL7Jk7ner40T0yxpNBgjCMSacb+ vEOa2t2d6w/aYTz9J4oAtBqwYN9nxOsKco/YauZwxo1GLE0Fw3mZUvm/JKt3JWKRVE P0/X3+HxlcjD5Y9cVwwXCGdBbTu0BlRi8Ir7vyLs312DUp8qo0wa4y7CvUyGigdHd2 iQv13DDbma9YuXtKudzgrkiwv+R+R/Z592KQISj6PxgY8VlmwwstB04rfUEMPRSV6Q 8xt/1P6AVmIXQ== Received: from alfajor (104-222-126-84.cpe.teksavvy.com [104.222.126.84]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8FB7F1201B3; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 23:56:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier To: Michael Heerdegen Subject: Re: bug#47813: 28.0.50; Confusing new calling convention for define-minor-mode Message-ID: References: <877dl36lpz.fsf@web.de> <87lf9isvle.fsf@web.de> <877dl17pmv.fsf@web.de> <8735vp7ig3.fsf@web.de> <87im4lqgg6.fsf@gnus.org> <87sg3oa45y.fsf@web.de> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 23:56:11 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87sg3oa45y.fsf@web.de> (Michael Heerdegen's message of "Sun, 18 Apr 2021 01:21:13 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.054 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 47813-done Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 47813-done@debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Michael Heerdegen [2021-04-18 01:21:13] wrote: > Stefan Monnier writes: >> Done, thanks, > I am happy with all the changes. Thanks, closing, Stefan ------------=_1618718221-851-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Apr 2021 01:51:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39687 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXDdg-0000aO-Gl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 21:51:20 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:51062) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXDdd-0000aF-S3 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 21:51:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56720) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lXDdd-0001oB-KF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 21:51:17 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.14]:44325) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lXDda-0006Qg-NH for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 21:51:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1618537865; bh=24BrbnKZetDkjCqOCik4PnY4RW2HXKE1RSSVUiX7HQg=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date; b=sr0Rp2BRM9PiroNqD1oid9yYSuMZYoUBMT6TG2/zlJIBaRDVYBb0sTiGgwzs3j53Y JjNhlq0Aye10be6KeUa4/cxLauYuQc2A0/BzbKfhmi6MHCc36JeMwrImf0d5wVeWd5 Xt6NyjdqvwY0oHdSxafQWUAH523FTZGn4Wz8Sda8= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from drachen.dragon ([88.67.96.191]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb001 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MDgPG-1lJRTD2DCo-00HAJJ; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 03:51:05 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: 28.0.50; Confusing new calling convention for define-minor-mode Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 03:51:04 +0200 Message-ID: <877dl36lpz.fsf@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:u4ji/tffhkpEGRRhDUTLPERpuUjsV9fcr+HeGQp44gZmQm7WxHU Xn/yAskiVMEVVdvetSkpb8RFk2mpSKUKj3bTj6VOTyFURuMYQB7W7t/M0r3zKRfwb3pT0Pg F02gC0xTIqO0J5yWZegQd575CKLM1x9cKyyrSpFVmbtK52hitgsm1rFF3e3bRst9lZwO4V9 1tz2zq9MpnSHDWGezu39w== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:sauq7Lh+MzI=:azUK8o5jSdGSsvNA27DrGk ZX60xF4pSxyGqJzbHk3GOaRugo+NCbNO4zCXtZEtS3qFxtO7PN9WtO+C9xd2wZ60NFnT/wnPi x7XKUYNyk/nkzk0klb3ZEtWmGHErHSegZe9S8y45KKqp2HExR2kqYv5c8iU+NQbaQnISJ5Whh SoC7ajLlGuTmgTDynIXc9GcDgyLwrECYba6b2NdQdCbAFpJeVfbhC+2h0JqwIDRFbCP58VIVm NwmNqO35GbB17rd+8RVkgaQraru515Ovxsm5kdI1IRkW/akIm5Kg5/m+Wngn0rJaTljlkAKGZ 8PSetxMP7e5sK05dAlPFdPWgDrhFE/oKQNyDLJv5IXim4ve+SqKy0yqSIvwHz6o0GCbKQOAdQ W1Yk52ncuhErqTXET8tJV0fq1YYKe10dBUfAG9KEZxn5IWb5jdmQBWYVKXgnSexUCKL3lT6JR huPVPe6ouT/C0m6/5HpK7MHyVYXTHwj4TWgM2xVfJHjJsetrePP+/EaT2PyDM8ppRH/tz/JpE +ABacBnbdb0MVhS7V/WDmdBbq6iRcPxFyqYuNFrlonVPHYAw1bZWeriS3Yb3dbBTvX1rrB2rX HpkowRC9iisaerkzDeNvMm9MNeOWBs1zaDCnBeT4vyhrIXegp0zXB7KYjT5ayC3sTyjyDBLMp 3yjdcXk4vqcqMNn2J6c/uf8MdMnZfOckTUzrlNZiVU2W5Hk+NIPG/3gwgVkRi3h5mo2u+An9W n1eceC7xeTq9xolY95Um2l0erg5Mg8izLxqtw/Fm7dHUqpVNC42zSB3NjrwqomJ/9bFwDLOB+ uZN1GErYfHqlSuQRJdnuay6HeGI2y7dW3j29nwtXlMJHgCZsuYMhQhqJSWBTmLluoRQ0+fg0x 3pfIRsbFjuNS+/84Nmfph8GslxE+RTGa9bFuFUZxKslIzghFn3wEnrJB2rdew/s4blBEkyHwR i/ddRVxNMpWBe9+smCetOYv4nPjM1hVkQFh3nDEEAZDfUzQTwdj+5SlMTxZXRm6E4yyEmRFMq NxaVFfqg3/H9s/fZrpIn2Kgyze+d5gHojaoQ2iMxWfmjrcFnvaKI6i96MZdDYr7/bItMlfbnN MJ67QI1eacsAWSqaC6Z45sIUKUiA30gxqs+sWGadPODL7msqZfsy4Jik/2a67bDjrzMRlCcsQ LBa830ghU+KPQMQBadEzo9yL4/iQACqNI/csgTJq231pkBZIPCFmpq2GuPkUYJ00eS4uvAVRl ylckFAiE6eLTQuZk8 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.14; envelope-from=michael_heerdegen@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: Stefan Monnier X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) Hello, the new advertised calling contention for `define-minor-mode' is | (mode doc &rest body) Nothing wrong with that, but this part from the doc string: | If you provide BODY, then you must provide at least one keyword | argument. says that the convention as printed is not valid - and indeed it isn't -- e.g. this errors: (define-minor-mode test-mode "..." (if test-mode 17 23)) Is it possible to make that keyword-less case work? Else the calling convention should be made clearer in some way. TIA, Michael. In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 48, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.24, cairo version 1.16.0) of 2021-04-15 built on drachen Repository revision: ed6b86457ddf73cc2cb2df6a1cf8dab79a265a93 Repository branch: master Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12010000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux bullseye/sid ------------=_1618718221-851-1--